« Call Her Daddy

114- This is Mia Khalifa. (ft. Mia Khalifa)

2021-03-17 | 🔗

This week, Father Cooper sits down for an interview with the one and only Mia Khalifa…move over Oprah. Mia opens up about the struggles she faced while growing up as an immigrant in a post 9/11 society and the bullying and harassment that followed. She recounts the darkest time in her life and how she overcame global shaming, death threats, and ISIS. Mia tells her story with an inspiring amount of strength and affirms how one’s past does not define their future. It wouldn’t be an episode of Call Her Daddy without a little sex, and Mia shares one of the most intimate sexual experiences she has had with a partner. Lastly as always, therapy is the key to life. ENJOY DADDIES!

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Episode, what is up daddy gang it is your single father Alex Cooper with call her. What is up daddy gang it is your founding father got it all on. For another episode call her daddy. Hello, hello, hello, daddy game. I hope you are all having an amazing Wednesday, if not that's fine you're listening to his podcast. So it's about a turnaround, real fucking, quick. Daddy gang the guest today when she was twenty one years old for three months, three months in her life in twenty fourteen entered into the air, Alt film industry having No idea how it
impact her life and she is here today a strong, ass into pendant six, as full young woman, and because she were used to that social media, define her reputation to define in her livelihood A decision that she made in her early career- Her journey was painful, and it was dark as fuck and difficult, and You want to talk about rising from the fund. Ashes. This woman. His honorary.
Howdy gang MIA Khalifa high. Thank you so much for joining need today, I'm so happy to be here. It's so crazy that you are here and I'm so excited to have you on. I want to start by talking about our story together and how we discovered each other how this came to be like. Why are we here today? I will go first. Ok, so, when everything broke out with call her daddy last year, rise started, seeing things about it pop up on my for your page on taking. And I became obsessed obsessed, consumed everything I could about it. I needed to know everything will detail and I was just so inspired by your strength through it all and the way you handled everything, and especially by that first video you did when you came back that Youtube Video was: oh, my God
I think I saw someone parody parody it after the upper interview, saying like they photoshop the queen onto your face in after she watches this interview way. I do not see that the less areas like it was incredible. You showed so much strength and you made me a call. Her daddy fan. That's amazing, to hear because- I will thank you. First of all, I had always knew mug knew who you were and then I remember going to follow you and seeing that you followed me and I went to DE em. You then, because, unlike I need to have this girl on the show, and then I saw that you had already damned me and your dm two me was unbelievable, Also, thank you so much. It was basically explaining exactly kind of what she said about the video I mean I just wanted to like. I knew I knew you wouldn't say, because at that time you were just getting completely.
Blow up, I love how you say that, and you have twenty million flowers I just I didn't know if you're gong to see it. I'm like I'm surprised, you even know who I am so. Thank you very much. I started it. You'll never see this, but no I'm a big fan. Thank you and I'm a huge fan to give anyone context right now, Daddy gang listening. I am sitting with MIA in her house right now and we hung out last night, which I think was crucial for this interview, because we wanted to kind of go through what MIA is going to be comfortable talking about not talking about and just so it can be an enjoyable experience for both of us and something that you're proud of, and you want to put on the internet because I've seen some of your.
Past interviews and the people that interview or fucking assholes and like what the fuck are, these people doing so I want to give you hopefully a different experience today, as we kind of delve into some topics. Some are going to be fun, call her daddy topics and some will be more serious topics, but I just wanted to tell the Daddy gang that MIA and I have had a conversation about what she's comfortable talking about today and the themes that we're going to be talking about. Hopefully a lot of you will be able to relate. I want to kind of go through me, you just explaining your childhood and just where you're from and just giving a little bit of background on like who you are in case people don't know who you are. Okay, I moved to America in two thousand and one from Lebanon and. I grew up as one of the very few brown people in Montgomery County in the school when I went to it was me and a couple, indian kids, and that was
So there was a lot of internalized racism against myself and I wanted so badly to be white and everyone was white and jewish and I wanted to have a bar it fun. I wanted to do all of these things that everyone else was doing and eat the peanut butter jelly sandwiches in my lunch bag, like everyone else, and there was a lot of bullying and a lot of things that ensued after nine eleven happened. So my childhood was a little rough. I didn't have too many friends. I was also extremely overweight and just did not fit in anywhere anywhere. So I turned inwards and I I I don't know I had a lot of shame over being different, not being attractive. I'm not getting not getting any positive into attention or.
Validation from myself. So I sought for elsewhere and by the time I was sixteen, I was doing some one who was twenty three and you are looking for validation three on yeah, I only if we had had a conversation about that last night. I think to kind of go through. Some of your childhood, I think, is thank you for sharing. I could those are like all themes. I think that a lot of people can relate to is one being bullied at a young age significantly affects your mental health and the way that you look at yourself in your adolescent years and then affects you. If you don't get into their appear, you don't address. It affects you throughout the rest of your life and the decisions that you make and there are. Patients, ships that you get into, I can only imagine like you're saying you so did you move your around the time of nine eleven year in January? So by the time school starts to school, started nine eleven happened and being in DC. It was what did you grow up in New York? I know, but
Pennsylvania, but the Northeast North EAST in general, I think, was differently affected by nine eleven, then the rest of America and because we didn't have school for like a week, we got sent home and did not back for a week and you those trainings of like if this ever happens again in school. Like everyone was lads like where to take cover in the like rooms, it was created code, Red rose up, and everyone brought like lunch boxes that you, like pact, like having case it, was crazy times in the northeast, so, while that we look like the red scare and how kids were hiding under their desks like oh, my god, I can't believe they did that meanwhile were putting up cardboard over the small window in the classroom. Is there's an active, shooters, something's times of change. When it's me kind of, say, plainly liver seems able different. So was it for you. Was it so hard coming from where you came from two then come to United States and then to be in the United States around that time at such a young age, like did you deal with bullying around. And not being from America Yard the accent I didn't lose until, like probably middle
school, so there was bullying surrounding that. There is billings surrounding the way looked the way I acted, the food I brought to school basically Breathing, I just did I I didn't know anything So I didn't know if I would ever fit in anywhere. I thought everywhere was like this. She felt very isolated. Very you said you grew up sorted from like a milk, not a military background, but you did go to military. School for high school see you were kind of on my God. I wouldn t like a straight and narrow path, but you definitely were not living in a way that, like your eyes, were on you, your parents not restricts, but like you're going to military school years, and so when you get to your adolescent years, you go to college. And what can you talk about your experience with we in college and like the transition from feeling like insecure and not competent yourself? having that body image changing in college to getting your boots job other crazy thing, as my body image didn't change until may be like for five years ago,
even when I even after I lost all the way between those two years after her? school and my early twenties. I thought it was my boobs that made me feel so lonely so self. Conscious about myself. But after I got my boobs, and I was so that one was a breast lift and implants o because of my drastic weight loss. I had thirty four triple Dees and then I lost sixty pounds and I had thirty two age, but I had all of this excess skin to the point where the doktor couldn't put implants and otherwise monopolies would face. Like my toes. Though they had to do a lift and then put implants in and did the weight loss also affect other parts of your body, not just your view, as so many parts lighter. Yes, it was really hard for me to struggle with especially having so many friends my age rice, seeing their bodies compared to mine. I I looked like I had three kids like I had. I still have all of this excess skin and stretch marked the strict,
I don't care about it's, it's the it's! What my skin does when I sit in when I moved certain ways that you can tell that's like there's no way to fix that other than having surgically were moved off and I lost the way in the worst possible way. What do you mean? How did you do not eating just being completely unhealthy abusing laxative? Just doing all of these things to put my body through the ringer and lose this weight so drastically we're? How? Where were you like mentally and save your I hated myself? I I didn't see the person that was
they're in the mirror. Even though I had already lost sixty pounds, I looked like a completely different person. Why did I still saw that chubby girl that I kind of hatred and was ashamed of, and I didn't feel as pretty as I was so whenever I got attention from men, I felt like I need to hold onto this. I'm gonna lose it. I might not ever get it again like I don't know when this will passing and it's like a shooting stars. I need to hold onto this and do whatever I can to make them happy so that I can keep getting those. Could you hadn't gotten any of that? Will your younger yeah, if anything, you are getting shamed about your body yet suited any type of positive reinforcement about the way that your body looked from? A man was something that you had no experience so was like something again. I get we're saying you want to hold on to it as a lot of weight to lose. Obviously yeah, and we had talked last night a little bit about your struggle with body image and having openly saying you are comfortable talking about having in eating disorder, and I think so many women struggle with way in general, but to acknowledge it
Understand that you have in eating disorders, like can you kind of walk through that journey and how you ve, whoop you're, saying it's been passed? What for years, you started to really love yourself. Can you kind of talk about like what that journey has been for you therapy? I love Farrabee do error. You will not die last night, you like therapy me, and I was like nervous to ask her cousin, my oh god, like this rude asked. Now were to normalize asking people yo are you in therapy? I don't want you in my life unless you're in therapy. Are you actively working on yourselves last night? I looked at me and when she said yes, I was like okay. Now I fuck with you. This is amazing. We get along and then to ask each other. Like oh, are like our significant others in therapy and we're like absolutely. I was like. I will never date, another
Neither is it in there now Europa yields if you're not impair gas, so you got into what age it again to their european two thousand and sixteen o guy. Like five years ago, I was twenty three twenty four may be got it and it will completely changed my life and I I've heard I heard you say you needed. Try different thereupon total and I fully agree with that is leading yeah. It's like dating it's like having a trainer, it's like having a dermatologists like you're, not just going to mesh with the first one, you ok yeah, so your experience with therapy has helped you dealing with that body image, not just the body image alone, yeah yeah everything seems to tie back to shame it's the most powerful emotion, a human can experience its crippling
its debilitating. It can change the way you look at yourself. You look at others, you it's the number one thing that you should probably work on. If you have any other surrounding issues, everything leads back to shame. Will I that's what I wanted to talk about so Daddy NEA and I had a conversation I think we're sitting here and obviously there is an event in your life that happened that I'm sure you're tired of talking about, and it has definitely affected your life and an end. Everyone listening you may or may not know about, a event? We're not here to talk about the event? I almost want to start now like after this, this porn seen goes viral.
Who was that girl the minute that goes viral like from then to now cause last night, you are saying you're the happiest event in your life to have the most isolating feeling like you're alone, you have people sending you death threat. You have your family at the time, not supporting you wear it look. Where was your head and like? How did you get here today? You don't I'm saying, like a lot of people, wouldn't have been able to get through that mentally and in Europe until help im wondering like where were you mentally post that video, so I dont know where I was because is. That is around the time that I started associating and just compartmentalizing everything and pretending, like things, never happened to the point where I didn't even talk about porn for the first, like three years after I just. Quiet never spoke about it any time I would do an interview. That was the one thing they were not allowed to ask me about. I refuse to even ignored
allege that I did it and it wasn't until there we, then I realized how detrimental that is. I can't just scoots things under rug and hope that they go away. That's not how it works. You have to face them head on and acknowledge them and talk about them. It's it's that feeling of like. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to,
attention to it, but I need to talk about it, because I need to explain myself, as everyone is just misinterpreting the whole thing right, so it's that catch twenty, two of not wanting to bring it up and needing to bring it up, because it's the way it's like the elephant in the room everywhere you go. I remember last night you saying like you're at first, the your pseudo name me at first was like hard for you at times to hear casually. Oh, my god. It probably brought you back to those days and porn and being like. I don't really want to associate with that person. We were joking. It was almost like the Miley Cyrus Hannah Montana fact, really you're living to different lives and that mentally can fuck. With someone like if your living to different lives, it can directly affect your mental health in it like will, which one who do you addressed first MIA or who you actually are and like? How much of me it is you, I guess I'm trying to understand like as a young woman feeling so alone in those moments like if you were kind of
thinking about it? What were you doing in your life posts that video like? Where did you go like? What were you doing? How are you making money? I was working as a paralegal at law firm and then I was working as a bookkeeper at a construction firm and then I was like ok, I'm tired of living in this five hundred dollars a month efficiency. It was disgusting, it was so bad cockroach infested, it was the worst times of my entire life and you're not make really making money. Now that was like such a like such a topic on the internet, like how is your lying about how much money she was making, which I know you are vocal about how you basically didn't make any money from this day, videos that you made and then they ended up making so much money and like whatever that topic was I'm sure hard for you could then you're living in slumming it you're in a play you're, like everyone thinks I've made it like. I'm not. I don't have shit heavily rumanian followers on Instagram. Everyone thinks I'm living it up like. That is not the case and you had lost your instagram.
I did not work where I got her and then I I didn't. I didn't create one for like a year and then I created one in two thousand. Sixteen. When I decided to move to Austin, why did you decide to come back to social media, because I knew at that point. There is no turning back. Everyone knows who I am. I can't work anywhere. That's why I left the law firm job. It was very uncomfortable for me to work there. Well, actually, the company dissolved, but I was very uncomfortable working. There explain that experience yeah, it's very weird, to go into a job interview thinking. Oh I'm just going to go back to normal life and having the interviewer ask you if, if you, if you did porn right, there is now you think they're asking that, could they knew? Yes? Yes, they recognize me and I went to a couple interviews where some comments were made and then I finally got a job at the law firm and then I got a job working for a friend's company at the construction firm and then I just realized I e you feel uncomfortable. I feel
people everywhere I go like. I can't be sent into the field, they have to be careful about who they let in the office, because some sub contractors are creepy like I started to feel like a burden on the person who was taking a chance on me in giving me a job wow to say you felt like a burden to the people that were giving you a job. You are an educated, smart woman who deserves to be at that job. He made a decision in your life that a lot of women make I'll. I've made a sexy with a boyfriend, and maybe it didn't happen to go viral, but there was a chance. People's needs get released, people decide to do porn and when I think back to the point of view
apparel legal, the fact that you were a pair illegal me, I like your eye and say I was a good one. No, I know you were good one, no manoel you're, a smart, educated women. So, like the thousand first thing, when I sat down with you last night, I was like this girl's, fuckin, smart and the same way about you so but it's it's crazy to then think that you had to feel you couldn't fully get into a job and allow yourself to go full force at a job, because you were being haunted by decision you made in your past him after you left and decided to get back into social media. What was your like mindset like? Who did you want to present to the world? Were you thinking that you we're gonna have to completely remake yourself? Are you new people? We're gonna comment like? How did you think? How did you come strategies? The way I got myself to arson was, I started coming and I can't and Austin for about a year before I decided. Ok, I I don't want to do anything. Nude averred, you explain coming to people that
just like? I had a very different experience with carrying ok, I was probably the worst cam girl history me. I love the author. I would leave the camera on in my empty room and here, like the Tipps, go off knowing that they're trying to get my attention to come back end, but I'd be watching Catholics in the living up. A lot on, I would like size. Unbelievable episode of America makes our motto IKEA. Miss it hold your money I'll, be right. Back so you are just like not invested in it. No, I was I would. No, the entire time I was doing it. I was trying to get my foot in the door doing other things like. I was writing for this website called fancied it. I think they're website hasn't been updated since, like two thousand five interest, it so bad. But I was writing this, like weekly column of my top seven pigs in full,
and doing all of these things you're trying to venture out, while also being like hey. I need to try to make a living and I'll try to do camming, while I'm trying to figure out. Where can I place myself and where will I be able to fit in not something sexually oriented and complex took Genes on me- and they gave me a little gig hosting issue with my hero, Gilbert Arenas. That's amazing also. Well I'll see you are living in Austin you go from coming trying to now find jobs. You gotta coupled gigs, then, where is your career tailing? Where does it take you to you decide I'm done with coming yeah. When did you make the decision was that when you made the decision, like I'm completely done with anything the actual? Yes, I think it was June. Seventeenth too, doesn't seventeen? Were you nervous like in that decision now now, because I gave myself a one year time line and I did it and eleven months. What do you mean a one year time? I only wanted to come for one year and if I didn't figure it out that fucking sucks, I guess I'll have to move back
To an inefficiency god I you're landed, gave yourself one year of like you can rely on this like sexual aspect, the career, but once that is done here, so we when you're saying Austin. How did you end up in Austin cause you're saying I m o everything happened in Miami ought, like God, at my worst years of my life, were played out in Miami Florida. Do you ever go back there I went back once. Oh, my God is like scary. It so scary, like PDF, Do you little? Yes? Yes, I am very sensitive to number one Smells and number two places right so anytime, I drive by a place where, like something happened or like I'm, I have a memory visuals Yes, very surveying back Miami was like God, there is streets, I couldn't drive down, there's places I couldn't go to food? I couldn't order Russia, everybody listening to his podcast. You know I'm crazy about thinking someone always breaking into my house
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I m p l, I safe dotcom, Slash daddy, simply Lee safe dot com, Slash daddy, staysail, Daddy's love! We ever gonna, keep it vague by toxic, manipulative relationships and men in your life. What do you think was like the reason you got into them and how did you get out of them? I got into them because I didn't think highly of myself right thought that that was the best that I deserved, and even more than that, I thought
Let me over, extend myself and over deliver an over just just. Do everything to the extreme to keep this person happy, because they are the best that I can do right. I can't do any better. How did you get out of like one of your most toxic relationships, my most toxic one? I actually got out of around the same exact time that I got out of porn, because I came to the realisation that these these two things correlate right and I would not be here if it wasn't for the other thing. So recognising that made me and made me maybe grow pretty fast, because it made me realize a bunch of other things about myself in the decisions I make, but I think them the most that I took away from it was. I have not been thinking for myself and I have been making decisions with other peoples best interests in mind. Not my own. I've been trying to please people who are worthy of that, instead of taking care of myself and standing up for myself, but you got so profound too, because when I think back to our conversation last night of you being saying it, we went hand in hand with deciding you were done with porn deciding. You were done with a relationship the way,
that you spoken prior to like about that affect it had on your life. It also makes sense, then, like how you almost probably felt like so out of control of look. We we an end. I think everyone may have those moments in your life, where you go a little too far like you're dating the bad boy for a little too long, and then you are in jail right little and then you're in jail or you wake up and you're like. Oh god, like I've, been party to heart and now I'm in jail or I gotta. Do you. I like you when, after the video came out, how long after did it take you to believe what am I doing, I took it took em a month or two yeah. It took long enough for me to realise I'm being put in danger: yeah, I'm just going along with what people want to do and I'm putting myself in danger like these aren't shackles. I don't I don't have to be here. No one. No one can force me to do this if I dont want to, and as soon as I realise that I I knew I could get out, but you feel like what the minute you knew you get out, and I guess that's where it almost goes, then to what we have been talking about, but your job like a lot of girls. I feel I don't get out of it, regardless of whether its porn or a bad relationship or maybe you're, not happy where you are in your life at like a job or college like the the cards
getting out of something when you're so deeply, not only deeply in green, but then in your situation to the extreme of like. Can I get out there? Where am I going if I get out to do an efficiency in North Miami moving into the call coach and
This is how you get how right and so then you're like so so that that's what I'm trying to understand like as a young, your twenty one as is wanting to as a young female with you, don't have the finances to be like. Oh I'm, out of here, I'm gonna go get myself a nice part meant a lot of girls, usually cling to bad relationships or, in your case, stay in something because they're like I had nothing else how low mentally you ought to have been too. Then how strong you were to be like as low as I am. I can't stay here. Did you ever think? Once you went to the efficiency to be like I should I just go back? No, you didn't know, and I I did absolutely nothing for a year I didn't decide. Maybe it wasn't. Even maybe I should go back. It was Morceau like I rationalized what coming was, and I knew I could do it from a place where I felt safe. I could do it from my home. I don't need to see anyone or interact with anyone, and I can I can do what I want to do right. So I rationalize that, as this is the best decision I can make for myself and my life right now now I made the decision in a bad way. I could of completely done it on my own, but instead I went back to a place. I should not have been worked for them, got it people that yeah they yet on prior, and that was my biggest mistake had. Did you I'm interested to know, because I think that the key theme of loneliness- I'm sure, maybe you could tell me if I'm wrong, but maybe that was probably the loneliness time in your life. You did you have any friends that LE girlfriends at the time or were you show isolated. I was so isolated. I had no one, but the guy was dating at the time and even then my only friends were were his friends, so I had no women. I had no girlfriends. I didn't really speak to anyone from back home right. My family wasn't talking to me. I just had these two dogs. I've had I've. Had these two dioxins I was to eighteen. Nineteen you'd understand how that sounds. Like I'm, China, like I have so much respect for you because, unlike you, decide to leave deport industry, your family is on in your life. At that point, you have a boyfriend that wasn't obviously the best decision, you're, also saying so, like your alone, how like? How did you meant to Lee we're like you were just blocking out like work? How did you even cope with Alexander? I feel so I want to give that girl a hug. I feel like any female being buy meat, man or female being by yourself in that moment, having known to turn, you know girlfriend you can call cried to like who are you crying to yourself in your like, had literally myself in that little efficiency on the IKEA bed, like I spent so much time in my in my room, just crying or going for drives because I
Pretty free be able to drive a car, and at that time, did you out in public, and people knew who you were. I was vit. That was what that was one of the things that made me feel even more isolated. I was so scared of going out in public because I was alone most of the time I saw my boyfriend Saturday Sunday. That was it. You know if, if I saw him not weak, but I was alone most of the time, I was scared to go to the grocery store. I was scared to go. Do laundry. I was scared to go. Do anything that required me getting out of the confines of either a car. My four walls, because I had already been at that point, followed to my car death threats, rape, dreads everything you can think of like thinking at the time being banned from my home country. Like them literally saying you are not welcome back on our soil. Like all of these things that made me feel like. No one knows what I am going to
Through and I dont want to tell anyone because I don't feel like, I don't feel like the people I do talk to about, it will be able to to fathom what I mean when I say I feel alone like ice. I feel alone global, not just like lonely right? If not like? Oh I'm feeling lonely saying I am
until I started talking about it. Then I realized so many people feel this way for so many different reasons why you don't need to have twitter completely against you or an entire army on the internet coming after you free to feel this way can be something as small as your family. Just look like he ip girls I owe or men. You have a family member that doesn't want to accept you and you feel only or you have about relations with their parents or your friends. You lose a friend group or your in college, and you find out that your best friend was talking shit on you and now it's like do. I need to find a new from group. Those are obviously lower tee. What your extreme was, but like the concept of feeling so alone and having no one to go too is something every single person listening to this podcast can relate to. Everyone is fighting a battle that they feel like telling someone about. They won't understand when you, I guess it is fascinating to me you being in that low place because, like I said, I have so much respect like how you were now sitting in this amazing house, like what do you have anything you remember other than those drives or amazing that you're saying you took? Was there anything else that you would like having your brain that kept you going like? Did you have a goal or did you have like what was what was in your mind, like I am so alone globally at I'm getting banished from where I was literally born like where did your head go to like what kept going in those moments? I I don't know my number one
my dogs, like what kept me alive and kept me from actually giving into thoughts. Our entering my head was literally my dogs. I had no next of kin at that point I like die, had no one to take them. I was the reason that they would be alive every day, so they consumed my entire life and I love them so large, especially this one. My first born you, you asked me yesterday who's your favorite hours ago, like this one put like. Asks that right now, but I had to ask for your dogs, which, like people can like laugh. I think that's like very like reasonable or yummy a bond with an animal absolutely makes sense. My dogs and finding communities online, like I learned, a little sports community and I found I just I just found diffrent different places online that I felt like I could be myself and be at home and I didn't really start to feel like I had a place in the world
till I met my best friend in the entire world. Rachel, oh, who, by the way, is freaking out that I'm on this show we really shout outrage, shot Rachel, my fucking love you, we ve Rachel rate, not the chef. Rachel. Why not the shy of all the girl that Josie cheated with our instagram by over the longest time we die, Actually read Rachel re like real. Well, we, how did you meet Rachel online?
Twitter, when the arming each other. One day we realized we were wearing the sick. She posted a picture on her on her twitter and then I posted one on might and we realized we were wearing the same thing, so we literally dmv each other. Should we moving together star- and I said yes I'll- move too often right now, so that is when I open decided I moving to us. Did I have a life in Austin? Now I have a friend I have my first girlfriend in year, whose we'd that's so interesting cause I'm going back to a social media for a lot of people is the antithesis of everything they like. I hate it so much. It makes me feel small. At that point it was your escape completely, for you didn't have to leave your house. I felt we are saying social media was my escape, because social media was probably the spy most of my pain right. But in the beginning, when you that, due to the fact that you couldn't go outside and you felt so unsafe did you was it also safety, but was it also like not, I am I wouldn't know if its word paranoia, but like does that has that man watched my video it is he staring I'm hungry microloans type share. My anxiety would completely take over and I couldn't look anyone in the eyes without wondering, oh, my god, how they did. I know right do they know, have eight yeah those thoughts all like, even even being in this room right now, like I'd, that that goes through my head and makes me feel uncomfortable to like what by people or get too close or like all of these things like wondering like, oh today, that have they googled me before like had they looked at my shit before like. Is that something that, like still stays with you tonight, young and you're gonna, be there? I am working on it yeah. I try and ground myself when my when my thoughts go to that and the Rhine thing and right yeah would wear where what has you have you got in therapy from that like? Where do you are you trying to get mentally when you go out and cause? I imagine public settings for you. I understand Alec full PTSD, anxiety, Trevenna. Has his person looked me up before, not that there is any fucking thing wrong with it, but understanding that in the beginning? After that, video came out judgment, societal judgment and shame was put on you. You can feel hurry, you want about it and you can have your oh. I should have done that are oh. I wish I had, but for other people to place judgment on you'd. That's where I have the issue of like. Why do people continue to bring it up? Nothing is changing from the decision you made and to be with a woman you are today. It frustrates me to see people still commenting on a decision made seven years ago. If we all fuckin brought out our skeletons in the closet and continued to bring them up every fucking time. You posted picture something if frustrate me, that that is one negative social media that they can make. Things live forever that dont need to live forever. People grow people change and again, like I said you did nothing wrong show. I guess the Rachel you finding a friend cause that I mean any daddy's listening like I think, back to like you're saying you didn't have a girlfriend. Who was the first time I felt unconditional love in probably since I was a teenager, do you meet on line? Did she know who you were yeah yeah, ok met on Twitter, like sheep full on you who I was right from the beginning, did not care from the beginning was my bulldog and she was the only reason I was able to go out and enjoy things and allows for the first time in my life I felt like I have someone in my corner. If, like something happens, or someone comes up to me and.
I soon try subdue something or say, sir. I could, prior to that, you have been fully alone and than any man in your life was also had a hidden agenda, so trust also issues Maria Huge, for you really help me rebuild my trust in people in general, and I do I think that if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be in a place in my life, where, where I could- or I could have someone who deserve me right- that's interesting. I think, like it so crazy, because friendship is so underrated, because I think a lot of time in the pod castle talk about like who is your significant other and half the time you couldn't maybe have gone to a place to have a significant other. Had you not found Rachel first, because Rachel was showing you unconditional up and I'm sure the relationship and I dont dynamic between you and men, was so threatening to you mentally at the time from what you have just gone through Sudan to have a female in your life. Maybe that was like the best opportunity for you to like start to put your tone. The water of like can, I trust, people commission this week has been exceptionally hard tooth.
Dare across from MIA and look out her luscious luscious locks, while my hair, because I have not been washing it for five days- is starting to look again like a mother fucking Room, I better get my ass in the shower and wash my hair with a little thing tat I like to call function of. Beauty, daddy gang? You know, The drill by now function of beauty is the world leader in customizable beauty, offering precise formulations for your hair specific needs. All of you bitches with long hair, short hair curly. Our straight here. We all have different needs. Using the same shampoo unconditional as your friend with different hair than yoga. Hey guys, you guys go onto functional beauty, dot com, you take a quick with that. Basically tells him about your hair, your hair goals strengthen volume I think oil control, whatever you want to work on and then function, functional beauties team determines the perfect Glenarvan greedy, Bottles a formula and delivers its right to you. You guys also got to pick the color of the shampoo.
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we're gonna get twenty percent off your order? Has your let's talk a little bit about with regard to your relationships? I know you have mentioned that you had a very toxic relationship, that was, you are young and whatever in you felt like, it was very strange imbalance, relationship of him being older, you being younger I've had I've been three relationships and in my life, including my might mean my husband right now, got it. The first relationship I was ever in was the most naive facade of a relationship you could ever imagined new. I don't! I don't even want to call it a relationship here I was. I got married for days after my eighteenth birthday, You have a guy ever says: you're mature for your age, fucking, run run the other way and call the police. Probably I could be saved that is like that. Is I'm too old for you, but I'm not cool enough for any girls, my age, the model idling of you now, that is, that is their motto. That's like what they
where, on the passionate, let's others know, hey, I'm a rumour right like you, I'm going for younger girl, yes and you're, so mature for being a young girl, yes of you, so in your for your age, that it was ridiculous and started dating when you're sixteen. Yes, that's. Looking young agenda it. Will you kind of way like unaware, even of really what you want? and then I was immediately thrown into the wife role and the I need to please him. Keep him like Do all of these things to make to not make him lose attention to do not make him loose. His focus on me right is interesting. I asked Do you do you think that was half in your head half the way he was treating you or was it fully by the way he was treating you or do you think it was still in that sell validation like I need him,
Let me love me. I think I was vulnerable enough right, where everything that he tried went through like a hot knife in butter got it. It was just too easy because I was so low mentally yeah. I didn't see anything in myself. I didn't see anything special or worthy or important, and I just love. I let him tell me what I was worth a deep ass statement, because we talk about the US I river, where exactly are sending in the kitchen, and we talked about how how unhappy you are with yourself directly affects the partners. You choose young and that's why it is so important to have you have to have a lot like friends around Joe and that's probably why it was hard for you to get out of these things too, because, like you said, you didn't have any one to be like hey, MIA, Lego, isolated but me across the country, and I didn't. I wasn't a completely different
timezone than everyone else I ever knew. I was in a new place every like couple years. It was it was insane. Do you have any advice for women that feel they are in a top dame because its
oh fuck and hard to see where it talks, oh yeah, and then the toxic becomes addicting and you don't know how did then have a normal, healthy relationship? But do you have any advice for like one like how how to get out like it's not easy like into process, and I no friends and family members who have been in toxic situations at its like? It's ok. If it takes you a year to spur start of actual rising and having the conversation like, how would it look if I leave him and how would this an end? Your safety in what's gonna happen like there's so many things that go into leaving, but for you specifically using your own story like how could you help younger women or or women that are married right now? Who fuckin knows how old you are young, you are. How did you personally like enough is enough, because I couldn't imagine going back to the way things were after I
after I came to the realisation of this is this is not me, this isn't what I want to do and it will be hard and scary, and I do not know what that road looks like like at all right. I was fucking terrified, but I knew that I could not go back to that relationship because it would still be that same vicious cycle right, the his perverse. Thoughts and his fetishes, and all of these things that I no longer wanted to be a part of or play into or play Kate or pretend like. I had interest in it because at that point I realized you don't deserve me. I am better than you sole judgment. Yes, I'm so much better than you. Yes, oh my god. I want to like crime, but it's so hard to tell women like you're better than that. What you need is to it's first working on yourself to even know what you need and who,
You are not not just working on yourself but talking to the people around you and not being stuck in that in that mindset of there are not going to understand. If I tell them there are going, they won't be able to comprehend the things that I'm going through. You take that step, it's scary, but take that step and talk to people first, a relationship I wanted to talk to you about in the sense of like d, unconventional sex and things that you know there are some girls that are like hey, like my boyfriend, wants me to peg him. Is he gay, like you, VE, had sexual relationships where or a sexual relationship where you were like of this, was different and in the process of how it transpired in how it unfolded in him explaining to what he wanted can you'd. Can you explain that? Because I think it's not we're not shaming anyone? It's almost like you, Wanna, explained deeper
us of how it was presented to you, yeah, an innate in an acceptable way. If we want to talk about its call her daddy like, can you explain what that dynamic was? Actually, it was the most unconventional and I opened a sexual dynamic. I've ever been a part of Anna, I'm not going to say who the person was Yoni, but I do feel like it was very much a shared experience and I was I was. I was fifty percent of that great and it then becomes one of my. Life experience as well, and I Treasury and I'm still curious,
about a year, so I want to talk about it. I've never talked about how our yet I had a relationship with a guy who was very curious about being the woman in the relationship and dressing dressing. The part acting the part, to the extent of me, pegging him and me playing the part of the man, and it started very gradually like early in the relationship testing the waters with just my underwear and then it extended into my lingerie and then extended into getting him his own lingerie in his size and then it went into full on wardrobe and outfit and shoes and wigs like really good quality. Wigs Philip worth a lot on this highly taxpaying one hundred dollars on a wigwam, only a shape so end and me as Walker through cause. I remember you had said like how did how did he first engage like? How did he first let you know that he was interested in this.
So minor basic right, it was really. I was like very small steps right and I think he is at the same time was- was experimenting with I don't think it was something that was. He was also you're saying like coming to this in his own, fully guy out this, so that we were very vocal with each other about about what we wanted to try and acts in what he wanted to try to do next, and I just kind of was like down. This is safe space. I, u tell you, tell me what you want to do next and I will do what I can to make that a safe, comfortable, enjoyable experience for you so that ended up being the only relationship where I was cheated on in my life, like that was wanted worse relations, ways either by lagged. Yes, we want an asshole as you given the dick, and he goes to. Finally, do I look I'm not only that, do you know? Slender, big boobs are no not like my fate, boobs, relic fig boobs to put on hand to put on it.
Yeah you by enemies did so much into that role. If I bought myself a dick and youth. It's ok and where do I get? Where does that get meet you? Don't we you bought him boobs? Yes, and you bought him wigs yeah. Why were you buying it? Not him just cause. You had the money or no yeah you're, just you or you just go to the soaring. The shit yeah and I will only try it on a got it like the whigs, and so you are fully committed to this, which is great on you in and we didn't. You say last night that was some of the best x you had ever had, though. Yes, because it was just like all your innovations for both our years we're trying something's showed if, when you're one puts all of their guards down and no pun intended, but they're right in front of you and probably the most vulnerable position
it will ever be in their entire life. I can't help but feel a connection. The vulnerability aspects like sorry but pegging your dude in front of you like TAT man, is all that that becomes a shared experience that like what we did isn't just his experience. It was also mine, and may I questioned things about myself like I liked being in that male role, I really thoroughly enjoyed that genuinely end right, and I think I am conscious enough now. I like as old as I am, after all the therapy, I've been in to recognise the difference between doing something to please a man and doing something that I also enjoyed. Do you think that had anything to do and I could be reaching her budgeting, it also had anything to do with, like you, ve been so out of control in some things in your life that, like me, it was kind of hot for you to view to be the one. I think a lot of people write. It offers oh she's, a boss at work, so she Erna she's here. My black networks are now. He wants to be like treated like, I think, a lot of people writer office being not. But what about what our
in face to face with was my own gender identity and, like questioning. Who do I, who do? I think I am like? Who do I want to be? What role do I want to play? Do I want to be in a relationship with woman, where I can be slightly more masculine and enjoy that dynamic and fascinating that opened my eyes to it and Turkey also opened my eyes to the possibility of that is probably the case. It's no! It's not Oh you know how the boss and our yeah it's it. That's pretty serve at level. Two thought I that's fascinating. You had you had those dots priors, that relationship I was in. I wasn't a relationship with a woman when I was a teenager out ass, she was she was. She was incredible and I've I always loved woman. I've, never I've never written off dating a woman, but it made me if it may be question what type of release kinship. I would be in if I was in our relationship with a woman, and it made me realize I think I think
We want to play the mountain I lay I don't. I don't even know how to talk. It doesn't actually my first I'm ever talking over. I appreciate it because I know so many men and women right in and what would my idea was more like what would my role be yeah what it had been a mainly question? What I want, whether I won't have you with a manner whether I want to be with a woman and feel feel that way, because I really liked the tenderness that came along with taking care of the version right of him that you know we explored together. I kind of love out too that you're saying like you, both were getting so much out of that dynamic yeah and I think that's a huge point for sexual exploration and to Daddy Gang listening. It has to be mutual, yes and you have to create a safe space for the person who was just being a little yet being the most vulnerable. Roman. Is that you now eight? Rory Rory? Oh, my god, you're like the
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bar o r why dot com slash daddy. Can we talk about the thing that I told you right before this interview? What MILAN daddy again. My guys is- and this is what I wanted to talk to her about, because I was saying you know I wrote down. I was like the question of how far do we let the public go in defining us as women before we take over and define ourselves, and I am what I'm reading online before this interview and I'm looking up that pakistani education activists, Mullah who is the youngest woman you just when a Nobel Peace Prize, you tweet out her. No, I commented on her Tik Tok, and so you comment on one of her tick toxic queen. Yes,
She goes on in advance that we created one and she commons back in me. I didn't even know this. I shot down news to me. I can wait until you start down you're that can I ask you about Malaysia and unlike why? Why are we talking about MILAN, unlike because
the art of closed, is burning and how she commented back to you and she's getting scrutinise on the internet thing. I got up, screamed and ran for my phone. The article discusses how she commented back to you and said my best d and she's getting was getting scrutinise on the internet for having any type of relation with you, and it frustrated me in the sense that, like the relationship between the two of you and who you are as women, that says so much to me about that relationship. Why is this woman getting scrutinised force for something that happened in your past seven years ago, like that makes no fucking sense to know? And so I thought that that article was profound in the sense of like people on the internet just want to bring up negative shit to bring up negative shit. You you have to unbelievably educated women who are yes in their careers, doing different things, but at the end of the day, the fact that she has she has respect for you and you have respect for her and then there's people shitting on her fur. Associating with you. How has the affected you mentally in like? Have you had issues with people not wanting to work with you or look back
Ash explain that kind. Kenya I mean I've been rejected from a lot of female, hosted podcast like oh, not not, brand, safe, sorry elbow on call her dad you're sweetheart. We dont focus on brand, saying we focus on real enough that we focus on not losing our sponsors everywhere, where I think we have sponsors that trust me. So here we go, think I, but no I note your thanks to people who have turned you away. I've had brands turned me away. I've had Picassos me away. I've had people tell other people not to associate with me because of my past, like I've, I'm very used to having that door shut in my face, but it hurts a little bit more when it. Comes from women and heard a little like it hurts even more. When I see other women getting shit for interacting with me, like Mina hairs, started getting shit for following me on Twitter and saying how can you ask? How can you be in the position
of leadership, you are and follow a girl who's on. Only fans are follow. A girl who did this and I started to have impostor syndrome like I, your yeah, I'm not worthy yeah. This woman is a bad ass, learn so in her her female voices so incredible and impact full. I started having thoughts of I should probably just deactivate my twitter, I'm not worthy of having a follow from her. I'm embarrassed for anything. That's ever been on my twitter. Anything I've ever said because I dont want to disappoint this person in this person is like clean and
touched in right. You know what I mean. Will I think me a one. She clearly see something and you she made the decision to follow. You know enforce her to follow. You so give yourself a little bit more credit because seriously like she followed you for reason, also like thinking about how I've changed as a person in the past year passed two years past three years, not saying that you need to change and like we need to wipe clean anything, you ve done you ve done nothing rise up change its growth right. That's what we're done! We write older, we ve grown, we ve learned. We do. We see a version of our side that we want to be and we go after an end to be put down. Like I minors on such a smaller scales. I never want to compare but like that, you run the biggest park has in the world but length we talk about this last night I was like I have had in the beginning before got big, my family with people were looking at my family. Your daughter is a slut. Your daughters
talking about blow jobs. Your daughter is, your daughter, is blah blah blah blah blah and my mom got frustrated because the only comments that were ever made with like what does her father think what is her dad think? What is it about my add that, what's the difference my mother birth to me, why are they so focused on the daughter to Father dynamic and it's just because a societal sigma that people have put on that day? Dad must be so disgrace that the daughter and it's like what the fuck are. You just encapsulated middle eastern female issues in one fell swoop, eagerly yeah. That was insane. The first thing that an arab woman gets ask is what family are you from who's, your father like any time someone see some sees them doing something hut arm or just not up to their standards. The first thing there asked is: what family do you come from.
And if so, why does it matter? What film it I dont speak for them, great big for me, my own person. It doesn't matter what yeah, what what does that have to do with my family same thing, I've been: why judge your entire lineage based on the decisions they are watching you may and and then it goes now to someone following you on in earth. Twitter now goes all the way to that to be like. Yet why does someone following you doesn't mean that that person believes everything you do? You have a walk it just so crazy to me, like, I think it's been frustrating as females too sometimes like try to have a voice, and then people can't fully take us seriously when we talk about sex or we have had a sexual pass like fuck personal fuck, all of you, because you ve had sex you're alive because your parents were fucking. Maybe I have a sexy some there, that's gonna come out. Am I not allowed to do something because MIA has poured? Oh, my God said that defined you for the rest of your life. It just a really aggravates me to think about, like the dynamic of how something in your past can continue to like people are saying haunt you. Why? Oh I mean it goes both ways to its either. It haunts me like how dare you have done that or I get shit for doing anything I do not like I'm on. Only fans doing non nude and people are mad at me for number one, not being nude or number to having the audacity to be on a site like only fans and not do new content. We can you explain that yeah? What is your one? How did you decide not to pose new content on only vans? I just haven't done nude content. I was on Patria before and I just decided to switch platforms. I was tired of patriotic wasn't user friendly. I hated running out. It was too much work. I just decided to do what I was doing on patriotic, but on a different platform, and I didn't think much of it and the reason I switched to only fans is honestly. It was meant to just be.
Not. I needed to raise a hundred thousand dollars to send to the lebanese Red Cross after the Beirut blast, and I thought only fans everyone's on. Only funds it'll be the best way to make money, and then I got shit for using money. I may off only fans to donate to the lebanese Red Cross. People were like how dare you send this dirty whore money to Lebanon? We don't need there's like what we. Why shouldn't you can't you do you're not in a position to pick and choose where the money is coming from you. What like I'm being I, U R, graciously offering the lira worth like a fraction of assent. You have no place to sit and net pick where the money is I'm so one day red cross today, except the money, that's not all its. Yes, Lebanese regrows, except donated lebanese cross wholly fellows, have money from anyone. It's it wasn't the people who are actually in charge of getting
It was backlash from La God now. There was also a lot of support and a lot of appreciation for the following these people. But what I'm saying is you can not please and anyone you camp, anyone who, like me as like I'm any use, my only fans and I'm gonna, take all my money, a hundred thousand dollars and I'm gonna put it to an amazing cause in the milk. That's disgusting MIA, that's from only fans as you're not stripping, do not do anything if you're fucking, putting a dildo in your pussy, who gives a shit you're, giving to an organisation and its like a cause that you are passionate about. How has your relationship where swerving here but like I'll, go back to only vent and second, how has your relationship after being banned? You are banned from London. For how long until they decided that you know I was allowed to come back recently re. Ok, I believe my relationship with my own country has changed one. Eighty last year and it was it was,
after the Beirut blast that people really started to to to realize what is important in life like every everyone was taking stock of of things in their life. And I think, a lot a lot of people were just more. Open minded. We were all just in a set in. Instead of we're lebanese, we need to put. Each other legal support each other are exactly like there's not much. You have us, and even our own or trying to kill us like. We have to stick together, and that is when the conversation around me and Lebanon change and I'm so I'm so thankful for it, because I think that has to that has to do with why, if you like, in such a good place in my life. Can you explain to me what is your career right now MC, where you kind of like seeing it going
I I met of weird place in my career right now, where I can take it any direction. I want them to so fortunate for that. I have so many exciting things ahead, but right now, I'm loving being on only friends, I'm really seriously loving it, and it's not just me being on their that I'm enjoying I'm really enjoying.
Learning about the sex work community and getting to know sex workers and hearing all of these different people stories and their experience in the industry, and I think I think it's very very important to acknowledge that sex workers need to need to be treated better and need to have more protection. But I also think it's important to acknowledge the amount of grooming that takes place online when people start glamorizing the industry and porn and all of these things that are really for young women who are watching and listening and thinking looking for an out on the sleigh and seeing someone post like that and instantly think this is my escape, because it's not
I don't. I don't, encourage people to go into the sex in the sex work industry, but I also will like die to protect people who were, and especially in the last year like speed, just getting to know so many sex workers and people who basically taught me how to be on only fans, because I for fur, for as much as I'm considered a sex work I know fucking nothing about the industry, and I want to learn because I think its irresponsible for me to be this court and quote face of it for better or worse and not know, what's going on with the people who are actually in the industry, that's fascinating cause it about. I respect you a lot for saying that that youth at one point Really tried to take yourself out of that world and now being on only fans and knowing their our sex workers on their. You do want to continue to educate yourself on a world. You were previously fully ingrained in
took yourself out of and now Oh, I remember seeing you doing an interview and you had said even just something: different as adjusting when a say it's a porn company, is handy a young girl, a contract kind like what we are talking about in the perpetuity aspect, when you're having a young girl contract just as simple as she's not allowed to sign it that day? What about even just putting instilling that tape of rule just because, like you said, you're sitting there with men staring out you as you're about to sign this contract, the word perpetual could he is on there? You know it means, but there staring at you in your feeling, a little bit like I guess I should just sign this cuz. There's three men staring at me and, like I, don't understand, half of these words and it's like embarrassing and you don't feel like you're. You just are like. I guess I should sign it for it to almost be instilled at like. There needs to be some type of guidance there has to be.
The lawyer, in the room to help someone understandingly thirty nine injection began. The industry is allowed to target eighteen year old girls. Those girls need protection in place, you just as young females or male signing, something that you don't have. An understanding of is detrimental, especially when you're in your adolescent, age of your brain is still forming how you gonna make it smart decision, when you don't even understand, what's in front of the exactly I mean they're, so many things it's gotta be cool to see what happens at our relation. It was. We had talked about last night, the whole like child pornography thing, unlike what happens when you're younger and if I didn't, Eliza open a girls get her if she takes a news and send it to her boyfriend most of the time they dont prosecute. If it gets proof spread around because The female underage female also gets prosecuted for distribution of under age porn.
So it's her it's a job ledged sword, so it not. She can't she would. These girls are backed they're back as against a wall because they can't report their image being circulated and sent around by the guy they sent it to, because then they would be admitted to procuring distributing taking under age pornography. How is that even its fucked up. That's like what do we say last night, we're like. Let's put our suits on what will we where we let you write a bill rally Can we will manage to you get? Yes, we need a yes, is like area Abu Zone has taken returned MIA. Doubts are talking about passing a bill. We will be there and we are going to be a legislator has dude. I may I think, sitting down with. You has been one of my favorite interviews, just because I can tell how one January will you are genuinely authentic, so smart, so educated, but also with your past to be sitting with you today, you, you can tell you.
And the work you can tell that you have been through an experience, but it's kind of as much as I said last night like, although you would maybe take it back when you are younger, like would you be sitting here? Had all this not happened, you don't owe me now. I think I think that I would. I would take the reason why I made the decisions I made up by a man. It made me grow up very fast for better or worse and made me grow up. I did not get to have, Same early twenties as most people, my age and I dont know if I don't know, if I regret that, because I think that I would be in a different place at twenty eight than I am now. If I did, I think to hear the way you talk about your husband and to hear the way that you talk about your life right now. My friend learn- and I are so corny recently, but we keep saying I really do believe everything happens for a reason.
You may not have let him you may not. We need may not even be sitting here and what I mean and so to look at the positives about what one point in your life was the darkest place in your life to see the woman you are today and to meeting you and I feel, like I've learned so much from you already, and I hope this is the second day hung out with you. It's inspiring honestly to be in your presence. So thank you think you so much for coming on. Call her daddy, I'm showing up. Thank you for coming on call her daddy. I hope that I hope excited to see where your journey takes you in your career who and I'm excited to see where we end up by Yannick were already friend yeah and veto. Thank you seriously. Thank you for putting out the things that you put out, because you have no idea who your inspiring and how much your inspiring them you made me you made me feel like I can literally do anything I want. I can start a podcast if I want like, I cannot believe she's
doing it on her own editing at writing at doing everything on her own and also dealing with all of this shit she's dealing with facing the internet sitting in front of a camera with amazing. I am not talking about all amazing lying, got it gimme that together, the Norman had great window idiot great windows, great exposure of the way you your wall set out. All of the other ran out and we love it. Oh thank you. I have chills just like talking about that video. You, sir, you seriously made me feel like. Oh, my god, anything is possible. Thank you mean you ve been amazing. Daddy gave go, show her love tag yourself where they might you gotta give me a khalifa. Go follow, run all things social media go subscribe to her only so she can continue to use her money for good. I love you. I love you.
Okay, dude! That was free. Thank you so much daddy king. That is it for this week. I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. It was one of the most rewarding interviews. I've ever done. Having gotten to know me on a personal level on a interviewing podcast level, it all was such an unbelievable experience. I hope you guys took something from this interview. I know I did and as if they stay could not get any better. I wanted to give you guys a quick uppity that all of the march that I have ever released in my life to night is going on sale. Everything is thirty,. Percent off our legs ha. Why? Yes, you heard that right, bitches I have been working on an entire new merged line.
As I work on that, I thought why the fuck not do a nice fat fire sale and get you bitches hook. The Fucker so go now. It will be for a limited time and obviously I am only promoting it on the pod Casper little Bit, so you guys can go first, get your emerged today. Go to parcelled out com, go shop, call her daddy and get yourself hooked up with some nice I'll her daddy gear- because I know you bitches just like me- are on well, Daddy gang, you know the mother Fucking drill. I will see you fuckers MAX. Wednesday.
Transcript generated on 2021-03-18.