- NO people in this discussion want to separate kids from parents
- Short-term solutions INCREASE the long-term problem
- Short-term solutions INCREASE the number of kids in this situation over time
- Half the country believes other half is okay with child abuse
- Analogies aren’t thinking
- When kids are stressed…
- Our human natural reaction is to care and help them
- That natural reaction inhibits our ability to think objectively and long-term
- Alan Dershowitz observation
- Death camp analogy is a form of holocaust denial
- All laws and penalties are deterrents
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The post Episode 111: (Part 1of2) Analogies are Destroying the Country appeared first on Dilbert Blog.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bump bump bump bump bump bump everybody combining here it's starting to look like the summer of love is not working out.
The way I hoped, but
nor does work out exactly the way I hoped coffee. Some of you call it
coffee, but you weren't, born where I was born or I was born, it's coffee and we're going to have some it's going to be good. It's going to be the best coffee you've had in the last ten minutes. I promise you that.
I will is the best ever so, let's start with some Good NEWS,
there's a field
Have you a mist, because you will hear all the bad stories today the feed,
Good story is that at the World CUP,
Apparently there are two countries that are famous
for bringing their own garbage bags and cleaning up the stands after the match and apparently is just stay, a cultural
a preference for not leaving letter so one of them.
Japan and the other is single ease. My saying that right, singular.
So apparently their fans like to clean up the stands before they leave. Japan is one and then or selling off, I'm sorry, cynical as the other, and it was kind of arson just to see them stay late, to pick up, garbage and and think yourself, yes
bike is on. So, if you can't hear me it's probably on your end so respected Japan and Senegal for being good citizens and caring about the people that they that they interact with all right,
let's talk about the story of the day,
children being ripped from their parents and kept in cages
to start this discussion in the same way, every time.
There are no people in this discussion who want children separated from parents. It would be a big mistake to imagine that there are two sides to that. Nobody wants that. There is, however, a difference of the long term and Lee
short term. There are some people who say: stop that happening right now, even if it makes things worse in the long run, because it might encourage more people to come, and rather people saying yes, we don't like it, but in the short run it
the best way to keep fewer people from coming in the long run. Now those two positions are unsolvable, because they're, both imaginary.
You you have to imagine what happens in the future and you can't prove it. So you have two sides which cannot resolve an endeavour.
I don't see any way, there's no logic, there's no, nothing that makes us go away if you fixed it tomorrow,.
It wouldn't go away because it already happened,
There is no fixedness, so we just have to deal with the fact that the country just split and do more more so than ever
you saw I'm sure by now you see the clip of Corey Lewandowski, making the unfortunate noise more more
when someone on CNN and other pundit was describing a child,
The down syndrome own being removed from apparent
that was not the best move any any supporter of the present ever made. In fact, it was just about the worst thing anybody ever did.
It will be hard for me to imagine anything worse than that.
It was literally just the worst thing he gonna done, the short of pulling on a weapon.
Or something I don't know how it could be worse than theirs.
Give you. If I can give you any advice, first, led with empathy and then make you,
if you dont lead with empathy nobody's going,
to the rest of it.
We all we all care about. The children does look like a bad situation. We don't like it to be fixed now,
remember, I told you that if North Korea started going in a good direction, it was going to cause a massive cognitive dissonance cluster bombs
Now I didn't see the specific topic coming, but you can see how perfectly of fit the the times, because there were half the country was in some kind of
told distress because their worldview had been falsified. The present
we have not done anything, Hitler's any data.
Like he was on his way to solving nuclear risk with North Korea
that is a very dangerous place for a mind to be, and I predicted the people
go crazy in a way we haven't seen since, right after the election
Worse than that, with this, this is absolutely a mass hysteria which is separate from the real problem of children being separated, denies the
The basic problem is all real and we all care about that, but the amount of concentration on this one problem when the world is,
all the problems and the amount of emotion people are applying to it.
if so far out over, will say out of proportion that it's pretty much what I expected, but I didn't expect this particular trigger, so people are ah are going nuts, because half of the country believes that the other half is ok with child abuse.
Of course there is, we don't live in that world. We know,
we don't live in a world where half of the country is actually okay with child abuse. That is absolutely just an illusion
It's no illusion. That's happening now.
Illusion the kids are being taken away by Lenny
Just list some of the illusions and the bad thinking is going on.
people believe that they know how to think and make decisions, but in fact most people doubt- and I say this without any-
unkindness people who have now learned how to think. I don't know how you can you actually have to go to school, the learned and most case
Let me give you an example: I
economics and business in college and the new
then you learn their problem.
The main thing is how to compare things.
Thus sounds obvious right. Have you compare things, but most people can't do it here here, so most people think
hey. That thing is bad. We have stopped doing that. That's it.
That's how an untrained person thinks something's bad, it's bad, stop doing it. Let me give you an example:
taxes or bad takes money from people who died,
I have enough money will stop doing the taxes are bad dont. Do it right? That's not really thinking, because the second part is compared to what. If you stop taxing,
what happens to society, etc. So, if you haven't studied economics or anything else, that would help you think.
say the law. I would
maybe studying science and engineering. Those who gave the same place
You know how to compare things so why.
Watching is a national
debate run by people who did not study had to think
because Jordan was really live in that world
They they live in a world of emotion and heavier. Had he make people feel
most of the people were who are talking at this hour
at the sit in the same sentence are now saying this is bad, but it's worse than this other thing, because most people have not been trained to even know how to think
So you're saying a big separation between the people who say
yeah? This is terrible in the short run, but
there are dealt with. Nobody has a better long run solution, because if you just allow the kids too,
be set free or the families to be set free
The message to hey: that's a free pass into the United States.
and everybody comes and then
Smallish problem becomes a bigger problem
if you don't have to think you don't work
about their long term stuff, because, as the comparison you ignore you just gotta, there's the small and you say: hey
children being taken from parents? That's that's bad.
so number one problem is Peter.
You don't know how to compare things, especially they don't know how to compare the short on too long
The other problem is that one,
dont know how to thing you substitute
something you think is thinking and that's analogies.
how long have I didn't tell you, then
oh, are not thinking
They're, just things are reminders of other things.
It is the analogy this ripping the country apart right now, while you can have you can thank people, I General Hayden, mostly everybody else,
the analogy this ripping the country part is
children from parents is like Nazi Germany and death camps.
So, if you don't know how to think- and the best you can do is find an analogy-
you're being guided by other people who have thought first door or said something: first, not really thinking
until until you say all this, I guess that's thinking. That's worth thinking looks like. If it feels like a death camp to me, then I guess that's the way to go. I can predict that here's so this morning,
Just let me an hour ago, somebody on Twitter said to me
challenging me because back during the campaign, I said that, if
They met, look even a little bit like killer. I would change sides.
I will be anti job the moment I saw something Hitler's occurring and
and people say well here is ripping Joe.
From parents just like Hitler. What do you say? Scott are each engine sides to which I say well
I dont changed my mind based on bad analogies. Let me give you the floor
This problem is wrong with IE.
Immigration equals death camps, analogy a death camp, a counselor!
Shouldn't camp is designed and managed to kill people. I think we're on the same page with I write. A death camp is designed to kill people, that's what is
Compare that too.
the immigration facility with
is designed and managed to keep people safe and alive. Is that the same as designing a system to kill people, or I know this is a hard question release half the country or is it the dirt?
the opposite? Now, if you just say how does it feel uneasy a picture of it?
damn child? Being separated, you said yourself, my god that feels awful. Do you know what else feels awful death camp they they feel they feel so
by you say yourself that their specific element of separating the kids from the parents is so dramatic the deck and only be thought of as child abuse,
don't tell me, you don't tell me that the end justifies the means which, by the way you talk about a moment. Dont tell me the end justifies the means that some Nazi talk there. If you do something that traumatized as a kid specifically removing them from apparent ease done something terrible. Do you know else who else separates parents from kids, the emergency room of the
spittle. Doesn't the hospital separate children from kids now not is, and they have visiting rights, but in need
Tension centres, they also have the right to call. Apparently they get to phone calls a day or something probably could work a lot better. The connection communication between parents and
but I would say if you work in an analogy, if you were, if you're, so
stem is designed to help people that's more like a hospital. Isn't it
Then, like a desktop, I'm just checking the analogies if you design something to help people, but they dont all get a good result.
It's a little closer to a hospital.
Then there is the issue of the kids screaming and crying which activates are. Are non critical thinking any adult who years a child crying and in distress that that goes right too?
most basic instincts and and reason doesnt matter, we will
we immediately sacrifice our lives and our our welfare to help the kid cry, but here see the thinking problem again. You have to keep things and
untaxed. Let me tell you other times: I've heard her children, whose scream
like it was the end of their life. I've heard it when somebody smartphone is taken away from them.
I've heard it when a sibling was.
playing with one of their toys at wooden chair.
Do you remember being dropped off at kindergarten? I don't know if you can think back now.
But I don't have that many memories from my childhood, but I remember this when pretty specifically when, when kids were dropped off the first day of kindergarten and the parents left.
About something like a quarter or half of the kindergartens cried like it was the end of the world and why, while they were being separated from them
parents- and they didn't really understand if it was temporary. If was permanence, how Lithuania they didn't have a good sense of time.
What what does it mean if you're in kindergarten? What does it mean that you can see your parents at the end of the day I mean that's that might well be ten years or so
The first contact you have to put on this is that children are being put into distressful situations all the time everywhere. It's it's just part of their process. Now that is different from saying: it's. Ok, some gonna catch myself. Before I get
in any context, is never okay to hurt a child for no reason it's never. Okay, the children were puddings distresses, never, ok, that their separated from their parents, but in context it is something society does on a regular basis all the time.
Because that's how you turn kids, who can handle life into adults? Who can you you put them in,
situations, I don't love and they cry about it, but they get used to it now.
I'm not making an analogy between kindergarten and and these detention facilities, because I'm not a bad
thinker, analogies, are not reasons. I am not saying that kindergartens good. Therefore, detention is good now saying that
I did. I would be as irrational as the people who say. Detention centres are bad, the Holocaust is bad. Therefore, there are the same thing.
I also making is one point that in context, children,
cry bloody murder fairly, frequently, there's a Thursday care center at the Jim I go to so people can drop off their kids, for I think up to two hours you should hear some
the kid scream, because they're gonna be in a really nice play facility for two hours, but not with their parents. It's it's it's pretty pretty loud. So if you put a hundred kids and the facility, a few of them are gonna be screaming and there's no way around that. But if you make a decision based on hearing the screams, you're, not part of the the thinking class you're part of the part of the group- that's been activated, the other. The the party view brain this as children are in distress, I'm gonna
the girl fix it. I can say that as quickly as possible, now the eyes of those are those are. Some of the mental problems were were banded analogies, we don't put things in context and here's the next one. I heard this from a catholic priest who was interviewed on CNN and I forget which
host, but the horse put put it to em the the long term argument and said that the Trump Administration says that if you don't do this in the short run-
things will be worse in the rock in the long run. What do you say to that Catholic priest and the catholic priest looked at an psych? Well,
That's the all argument that the end justifies the means. Now I talk to you before about that saying that.
saying oh you're saying the end justifies the means is not thinking is not even close to thinking is almost the opposite to thank you because you know what other situations the end justifies. The means,
All the situations that we choose to do all of em.
in every situation. Where we look
something and say well looks likely benefits of this or greater than the costs. So I guess
Do the one where the benefits are greater than the costs, because it would make sense,
to do the one where the costs are greater than the benefits. Possessoire thinking looks like thinking looks like comparing costs and benefits, and then you put you choose the one. With the best mix the priest said.
This is a priest. Somebody is leading us in how we lead our life said explicitly, though you
could not be looking at the costs versus the benefits. You should also look at the cost of thinking.
Well, that's, maybe the worsening vice I've ever heard in my life. Of course you want to pick the solution that is the best for the most children as well as other consent,
nations, but you know I'm like everybody else. Where were we
beings are sort of spring loaded to put children s
priority, biologically socially on every level and I buy into that, is well. I if you knocked, if you nothing
care the gives your ear denying your biological social existence. So everybody agrees on the priorities, the least in the society we do in this day and age, but you still gotta pick the one you have to pick the one that has the most benefits:
Lois cost you're, not absolved from that, because you feel more than the person you're talking to the you don't get too,
your argument, because you cried harder at the plight of the of the jail
who are genuinely in a bad situation in many cases I so
running through the errors and thinking
Oh geez or not thinking there. Just things are remind you of other things. If you're, not comparing things you're, not thinking, you have to compare two alternatives. You can't just say this one's bad, because that would allow you not to do anything. You know I don't want to exercise. You know why, because I get tired, thus thinking the long term benefit.
Exercises worth getting tired, that's thinking now when children are involved and especially when their in any kind of danger, Eric our critical facilities, disco click and they're gone. So it is, is perfectly understandable why you would get this reaction and then, on top of that you add the distress the people are feeling, because they learned that the president they thought was Hitler may have solved North Korea
economies, good and other things are going pretty well, so they needed they needed a release from that that feeling of being so wrong personally, and if they manage to take that emotion and transferred into this issue, which makes them a little extra
motion all about it now. The other thing I'm seeing is some kind of competition to show how much people care and I'm wondering if I'm wondering if this is
some kind of evolutionary biological imperative words acting, and I care really tell so. If you look at
If you look at sea in an Amazon busy, now you'll see you'll see, I'm just gonna go ahead and mark them
You'll see it unless I'm busy and CNN doing things like, there's a whole god
How are you ill or is yours, and I can't tell if their acting? Can you because it is entirely possible that there is no act? It is entirely possible that if they work themselves into the state and its is genuine, but you have to be sceptical because you have somebody actually cared about the children,
wonder, be a hundred ways to help more children than the situation, in other words for the same amount of carrying and resources money
time and everything else. Would there be lots of places
all over the world? Were kids are in far worse situation than an in these detention centres as bad as they are
and I have to pause every now and then to lead with empathy.
You wouldn't want your own kid in one of these facilities. You wouldn't want to be separated from your own kid. No
there's no minimizing of that. For me, bad situation, everybody's agree, but the truth is if what you cared about
was children. There are a hundred ways to spend your time more productively in ways they help more children just differ once just difference
But he was an Ipad at the other place. You just go any say our eye. We won't, we won't go in the cage with the other
and just go in with an Ipad and somebody with
Ipad at the other place, you just go
you say I we want. We won't go in the cage with the people were being detained,
but will stand on the outside, say a little boy, little girl, what name your parents in any call it up on me the Ipad say. Well, I hope you have a conversation here and by the way, just to remind you child young. This is temporary and will we'll get you a good solution.
Eventually. So it seems like there are a lot of the media things. People could be doing to make things even safer and better for these kids and we hope that all that gets done. We hope that a bad situation improves, etc. But if what you cared about was the children, you wouldn't be obsessed
this situation, where, if you were to rank the distress of children around the world, this is me
in the lower. Third, I would thank if you're looking at the entire world, could there be kids starving, and you know people and physical danger and being trafficked and everything I'll say between the top, but towards the bottom, these guys or at least
physical safety, etc. Now the the other thing I'm saying is we're seeing the medical community who are just as susceptible to the emotional override of their critical thinking. So just because people are also trained and sciences, there
Their their healthcare professionals that doesn't make them rational all the time it does make
the more trained and more rational than most people most of the time, but it doesn't make them rational in a situation where children are at risk- and that's That'S- everybody's big trigger children here,
Brain just flips Abed, so one of the things I M saying is the experts are weighing in and saying that. There's a real lifelong risk to children being separated from parents.
but what they do, but when they say that they tend to talk about
two things that muddy the waters. One is hey. There's this study about kids, there were permanently separated from adults at a young age and what happened to the child who was permanently separated while bad things turns out there's a whole range of things which are more likely to happen that are bad for the child,
who was permanently separated, how many studies Arthur about children who were temporarily, let's say just a few days, separated from parents, I'm guessing zero, because if there were studies like that, we'd have studies of british boarding houses, british boarding school, we just studies of
children who were sent to care, but even though they didn't want to go we'd, have studies of how much trauma you get foregoing too.
your garden versus home schooling. We have lots of things
Would have been studied to find out how much trauma there is being separated.
stamp early. When you know you're gonna be put back together now
in the case of the really small children? They actually maybe don't understand that they will be reunited in a few days, but
those very small children also don't understand their when their dropped off a day care that they will be reunited, that night
So the real little ones are being subjected to pity yesterday, almost every day there being separated from their parents on a regular basis and don't know when it ends, and they don't understand it.
some of the same tone Deaf now you must be signing in late there. These starting tone here is that we all have great sympathy for these children. Nobody wants to see them separated from their parents. It is very bad, no parent whenever want that for their own. Kid were all on the same page. Where were where the difference comes, is what
do about it. That's all we're talking about now. The other thing on finding Elmer online is people saying the President can just fix this with a stroke of the pen.
I feel like I'm the only person in the world who was aiming yes, he can fix the short term problem which is chosen
being separated simply by letting them go, then just let them enter the country open border. That's absolutely true. The president could solve that problem just like that, but it's not the thinking to say. He therefore should not start thinking that there's no rational thought in he can solve it instantly. Therefore, he should just signs of them, and it like that. That's not thinking cassettes. Half of the situation, the other half is what happens if you do that? What happens if you do that, is you get into the situation they cause them?
To do what they're doing now, it just goes back to the other problem. The other problem is that it encourages more more illegal immigration, more families dragging their kids across the great dangerous situations. More rape, moreover,
Somebody saying you're lying so that that's the
that's the trader. So here your mental you're, you're thinking errors and watch. How often you see them
Thinking here a number one is universal. This one is a one sided, the other. Both sides are triggered by children in distress. There is no other thing more.
Triggering. We are less concerned with our own safety. We are less concerned with the safety of other adults, we'll. Maybe animals are the only thing that we care about as much about as children, so the first problem with thinking is in nobody's doing it, because, because we is just not an option when something that emotionally triggering happens, we all just go into this weird non thinking zone, but if we could think the first thing we do is put some context on it and say: wait a minute. We separate parents from children all honour
we're basis for all kinds of reasons: hospitals, schools, daycare, your baby centres and in many of those cases the kids are young and they don't understand where mom.
He was going and they cry like it's in the world.
probably a stressful right. So the context is taking parents and kids separate for a short period is a normal thing.
At the same time, we'd all like less of it. Somebody says yourself deceiving scud beauty, you can you can leave a reason. Nothing was
are you from including a reason in the comments. So if I got a fact wrong war, if I'm thinking wrong just mentioned, it is a good chance. I changed my mind if you have a good reason. So that's the first problem. Second problem is theirs
contacts. I guess it's two problems were all triggered beyond the ability to use our sense of reason, cause we're over Whelmd by children in trouble and should be right. There's no problem that that that's a very human you admirable feeling.
We respect our feeling, but it allows us forbids us from seeing the context which children, which is children, cry for a lot of them
and they don't know when they see mommy next, even when balmy goes to work.
The next thing is we use analogies letter just ridiculous because it sort of that the the simple way of what we think is thinking, but it isn't, just things are remind you have other things. So are these detention centres which are designed from scratch to keep kid safe and healthy,
to get them into a better place. Is that like a death camp or is that closer to a hospital which is designed to get kids into a better place is designed to help them
now the answers that neither of them are thinking is now thinking to say that a detention centre is hospital just of all the differences, but is also not thinking to compare the detention centre to the Holocaust. It's not thinking to compare it to dropping kids, a kindergarten. It's not thinking to say it
by putting them in summer camp. None of those are thinking there. Just things are reminded us of other things now
said because there's a long run and short run problem and people are not
comparing the long run ensure on people prefer it is dealing with the short term
you're, seeing and unsolvable problem. This you'll see the conversation looks like us, somebody will say, for example, children are being ripped from their parents, a tragedy what're you gonna do about it
and then the trump support or less as well. Yes, I agree with you. This is terrible. Children should not be ripped from their pay,
We certainly want less of that. But if we do this in the short run, it can get us to a point where others less of it. But if we don't do now you're the long run it will be.
worse. So your suggestion Dale, will create more of what you don't want. Do you realize that.
Ok, how many times have you seen that conversation right look for it
look for how many times you see Dale says
blah blah? This is a horror and the person responding
as it is a whore Europe
completely right, they'll, let's get less,
that whore and we're trying to do that. The best way we can then Dale, just sort of stops talking disappear
because Dale cannot acknowledged that the long run situation is real. Dale says stuff like that, and I've seen the sun.
social media, because I've been challenging people to give me these third, the third option.
I have said there are only two options.
either. Let people free in the country the only two options in the short run in the long run, their sarcasm options.
In the short run.
two options you do something that's puts- gives in cages.
And I'm adopting that language by the way.
I see no reason why you should not use the same language because
There was a time when you could have tried to resist using their children in cages analogy. But at this point I had just embrace it. They are cages, their big cages, but their cages and their children at its children engages. So, let's call it what it is children in cages, but the alternative is more children being trafficked. That's at work,
he was by the adults if they're in the same place and are not related, etc. So, if you're taking side against children engages
it a reasonable thing to do. Nobody wants children cages, you have taken the side and more trafficking in
in the long run. We run probably solve all of all right
build a wall, you could do more facilities to keep the families in TAT
There are some dna testing. You could speed things up, you could, as Judge
so in the long run, all kinds of good things you can do in the short run, just two choices and you get. I think you need to you need to be honest about which one you take
I am choosing to not be on the side of child trafficking. That puts me on the side of something terrible children in cages, but, unlike most participants in this conference,
vision, I'm not gonna live in the imaginary world, where there's a where there's a third option that for some reason for some reason I decide Dershowitz,