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Episode 111: (Part 2of2) Analogies are Destroying the Country

2018-06-20 | 🔗

Topics: 

  • NO people in this discussion want to separate kids from parents
  • Short-term solutions INCREASE the long-term problem
  • Short-term solutions INCREASE the number of kids in this situation over time
  • Half the country believes other half is okay with child abuse
  • Analogies aren’t thinking
  • When kids are stressed…
  • Our human natural reaction is to care and help them
  • That natural reaction inhibits our ability to think objectively and long-term
  • Alan Dershowitz observation
  • Death camp analogy is a form of holocaust denial
  • All laws and penalties are deterrents

 

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The post Episode 111: (Part 2of2) Analogies are Destroying the Country appeared first on Dilbert Blog.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
comment so something dershowitz said has been sticking in my mind he said that when general hayden compared the detention centers with the children to concentration camps that it was a form of holocaust denial and when you first sent it i thought to myself what do you mean that's a form holocaust denial that i don't get that but of course because it's ellen fricking so it's and everything he says smarter than everything i think i apply what i call the dershowitz rule the dershowitz rule as if he there's some dershowitz says something i don't agree with out of doing what i reflexively do with everybody else which is th give the reason they must be wrong i say to myself oh crap he's probably right
let me spend a little time thinking about his point and so i did and i can i get it so here's the here's the dershowitz point the comparing the detention centers to the holocaust as a form of sort of a weak form of holocaust denial because remember the the people who deny the holocaust say stuff like well they were just trying to take care of them it is said now the people who deny the holocaust say no no these were just facilities where they put people to take care of them it wasn't to kill them and you're making that analogy detention centers which are which people are saying that these are just to take care of the children so i can kind of see it in an argumentative way i don't think it's helpful to make that point but i can certainly see his point it minimizes
it minimizes the emotional impact of the holocaust by comparing it to something that so far from it that it's it's a ridiculous analogy okay now let me talk about one other thing that the trump supporters are getting so wrong that is just so you're saying the anti trump folks make this argument they say that the president must be doing this to use the children as pawns to to get what he wants and immigration
well no do you see these using it as a deterrent another words the president is doing things that are bad for families and and the children because if he's using it as a deterrent to reduce more people from wanting to come in now when you were that way nobody can agree with that because i say all my god i don't want to i don't want to be on the side this using children as pawns and you know that's that's when the catholic priest can say well the ends the ends don't justify the means yeah and here the better way to frame that all law enforcement especially when it's being tightened and anything that
you know creates a new law or a new penalty or increases the penalty anything that adds to law enforcement is designed as a deterrent there are no is there any exception to that all laws are impart deterrence no some of the some of the reason for laws and penalties are to remove people from the street temporarily maybe some would say to rehabilitate him maybe some would say root for revenge but do you during the crime is got to be the number one reason uh to be the number one reason that people have lost so the president tightened the penalty for immigration and then the question people are saying is
did you do this yeah are you using these children to deter crime the answer is the all of the immigration laws including this one are two detur more immigration there is no exception of course but if but if you say are you punishing children to detur crime i wouldn't agree or disagree with that i would say now you're looking at one variable all all law enforcement on any topic immigration or any other topic if you tighten the penalties it is as partly a deterrent of course so yes it is because that's the normal way the world works now in this case because children are brought into it by their parents are the children's victims of this absolutely yet the children are totally victims of all this uh
trump has just handed the house to the democrats well let let's talk about a politically so i talked about it logically let's talk about it politically politically this is disastrous probably for republicans probably but let me let me put some this remember that it was only one week ago we were talking about north korea i don't know if the anti trumpers can maintain this level of outrage uh things that we used we used to think we're going to be
the end all be all just become less important a week later so we'll see so let's let's see if let's see if this you know is still as emotional in two weeks as our our first impression is my god this is you know this will never be less of an issue than it is right now that's that's how it feels at the moment but we've been surprised before and i think that you know if if there are some steps taken to reduce the discomfort of all people involved that that might go a long way toward to you know reducing the emotion on this but it's a pretty yeah what we've already forgotten about stormy daniels
problem will be fixed by friday somebody says i don't know about that that if the administration well let me make a let me make a suggestion so here's my suggestion politically alright so i don't have suggestions i'm not the brightest guy in the world so i can't i can't tell you how to solve immigration etc but what the problem that the trump administration has is that they have those videos and audio uh on the side that is killing them
right so you can't beat the visual of children in distress you can't beat the sound of them crying those are gold plated nuclear visual emotional images and they're just help because what the trump administration has in return you know their counterattack to these jewel's in the audio the visceral stuff is concepts a concept of like well if we don't do this things might be worse in the future you know you're not a country unless you have a border these are just concepts concepts lose to pictures and sound every time right the reason that we're focused on this issue instead of the billion is there starving everywhere else in the world is we don't have a picture no have the picture one of the
most under reported and biggest reasons that the isis was finally trounced in syria is we stopped allowing people to take pictures so someday it will come out what happened in syria they got rid of all the isas and it is not going to be pretty but it couldn't we couldn't have gotten there without getting rid of the photos we have the evidence had to be emanated and don't make any analogy to the detention center the point is that the visual is always bigger than the conceptual now if the administration one or two i have a visual response what would it look like what would be the visual response to the
visual agony well i think it would be to artificial to show you know a happy child in a cage yeah that's that's no place you want to go right it's like a look of the skin and he's smiling and he's in the cage about going to be don't do that bad bad idea here's a better idea if you could show a vault here or member of staff with the video conference or with the ipad talking to a child who is distressed and connecting them with their parents and watching the parent and child talk now some of them might be crying and distressed and those would be bad visuals so you wouldn't want to do that but there problem there are plenty of them i would think the majority which are just sort of used to their situation after a day or so who are just happy to see mom it's like hey mom how you and then they then you show the worker saying
and you understand that you know we're doing anything we can will get you back together and you know in a little bit now if you had that visual that would be a direct response that would first of all be honest i'm not testing anything being that is dishonest there clearly are people in these separate facilities who are getting to talk to their parents i'm told it's twice a day but i'm very sceptical
that they have the facilities for all of those people to connect with all their family twice a day and yet we've never seen a picture of it right there's something that's not adding up right 'cause they obviously would have shown pictures of the kid on the telephone or the kid looking at the video of his parents the fact that you haven't seen it i think is telling you it doesn't exist right so i'm calling the trump administration a liar on this point and it's been reported by very kredible people that these facilities for the kids and the parents to connect and that they have regular access to it i'm going to call i'll show it on that because if it existed and if it was a normal part of the process you'd have a picture of it maybe they'd have to blur out the kids
space but you'd certainly have a picture of it somebody says they sought what did you see one picture of a kid on the phone yeah so here's my my thought if you're looking at a short term solution in some volunteers was alive pads they know the address of the other facilities and just and just help the kids have a have a parental connection even if it's just the falling here there's an adult in the room was saying yeah yeah define here's a picture of them here they are talking to you will get you together in a couple days sorry about this bad situation we're just trying to keep you safe so you could take a situation which is bad and you can make it less bad fairly quickly with low technology assuming they have wi fi in their facilities i assume they do
how do i feel about them trying to imprison children in downtown houston all caps now you say that like i would be in favor of imprisoning children for no reason so check your thinking check your thinking of that um their parents are in mexico well for the kids whose parents are in mexico that's a different situation those are not the ones who have been ripped from their parents they're the ones who you mutually decided to separate uh so what tools of persuasion could the president use to win on immigration well
have you seen yet a chart showing the short term versus long term situation in other words have you seen the chart that showed you know this was the this was the number of kids who were put in danger under the old policy versus the new policy how 'bout any children in danger chart one of them one path or children in danger on the shark in the long run and this path keeps a a number of children in these stressful situations and nobody likes in the short run but we're also working on making that situation better because you know the attention on it is productive and by the way let's let's if you if we can all just
step up a level doesn't everybody agree that having this much attention on the situation with the children will lead to probably situation so on some level the system is doing exactly what it should do the media the checks and balances you know in the sense of checks and balances we are actually moving in the right direction even though it feels like exactly the opposite this much attention on the problem almost certainly will bring with it resources and ideas and and solutions end if the media wants to guarantee that this you can
well it just keep on it but the answer to your question what should the administration do to inoculate itself it needs visuals and it needs visuals of the short term problem versus the long term so you can see on a graph that can be reproduced
that look you know what we're doing is bad for ex number of kids and parents and we're doing this to avoid this situation which is a bigger ball of parents and kids in distress and then pictures of children actually communicating with adults which which is again i'm gonna call bullshit i don't believe that these facilities have adequate regular communication between children and adults i do not believe that's true i believe that is just a lie there may be facilities to do it but it must be so inadequate otherwise we'd see pictures of it happening all over the place so let's fix that we can fix that by this afternoon that's one of those problems that you know you can walk to the apple store it wouldn't be hard to get funding because the public is all charged up you know do a go fund me
yes volunteers who were willing to go in there once a day twice a day all right and then the dna testing i had a question can you tell me how long it takes to do can anybody tell me how long it takes to do a dna test can fact check me please how long does it take to do well six weeks if you are using twenty three in hey but with current technologies i see mark is saying forty eight hours and i'm guessing that that is a knowledgeable yeah if the kids if the if the equipment is brought into the facility you you get rid of a lot of the time lag right let's see a size five
let's see overnight forty eight hours alright so i'm seeing people forty eight hours seems like that's probably the answer but i'll look for a more authoritative answer so there's somebody out here who keeps asking me why i'm siding with netanyahu and i'm not exactly i'm not exactly sure where that's coming from at least on this topic by view on israel is that israel exists i know that's that's a radical thought but israel does exist and there's really no situation where i could be in favor of an existing country doing something that's against its own interests so israel is
good at existing and pursuing its own interests and it wouldn't matter what country it was if they exist and they're pursuing their own interests and would like to leave other people alone if it were possible it's an imperfect situation uh huh does palestine exist yes and the palestinians should do whatever they can to protect
cells and their situation absolutely yeah i support anybody who any country that is taking legitimate steps to protect their self interest now that's different from trying to take over another country you know generally speaking that's a bad idea and that's not anybody's best interest the horowitz testimony well the horror was testimony seems to have laid bare the following things that the russian investigation was always a witch hunt not whether or not it was is less relevant to the point of making which is it's hard to look at that information and come to a different conclusion
so people will assume that it was a witch hunt and all the signs are pointing that way so it does look like hillary got good treatment that the government members of the government were in fact trying to get rid of a legally elected president but amazingly imagine the the magnitude of this story suppose suppose we had not heard any of them mexico stuff and we're just coming into the story now and we found out the ig had reported that the guy that the guy who was in charge of the
the gate and hillary emails was a a guy who'd said several times that he was planning to change the election results essentially imagine if you just came into the store and say my god that's the biggest scandal in the world yeah i can't imagine a bigger scandal but we didn't come we didn't air drop into the story we got here through this long protracted imaginary battle that had to do with russia influencing the election which they tried to do but not in the sense of trump colluding in any in any way um and now the folks who are so anti trump can't really embrace the fact that they were on the side of
traders i mean think about it imagine that you had invested your entire personality imagine that you had invested your entire self worth and your impression of yourself and everything on this whole russia thing then you just find it evaporating do you then go all the way from look at look at the size of that travel it would be one thing to say hey i thought russia was real but it turns out yeah was just confirmation bias that would be a long distance to travel and most people couldn't do it from yeah russia israel and trump colluded all the way to ok it didn't happen that's a long journey but that's not what we're talking about we're talking about going all the way from russia and trump colluded
past it didn't happen all the way to the fbi was behind it do you know how many mines are designed to take that distance of a trip none is it is as close as you can get do an impossible mental journey all the way from trump and russia colluding past it didn't happen all the way to it was a setup no brain go that far so what you're watching is people trying to re craft in which they were right all along and the
they're doing it is with this children in cages stuff that they're trying to turn into a larger hitler narrative so that their hitler narrative was right all along and do you know why that's important connect the dots why is it important desperately important for the anti trump purse to be right about hitler yeah and in this case it right there to trump was just another hitler why is that desperately important now like life and death yeah elle they would get ptsd if it weren't true yes because it's because it's the only way they're going to be able to excuse the people on their side because the people on their side did try to get rid of it yeah hand these people the anti trappers would have supported that
under the condition that he really was hitler do you see how these two stories are the same story there part of a continuum because if if trump is not hitler if none of it's true ali is is the guy who got a good result with the economy in north korea and isis if that's what's true then they side and with traders right now accident because they thought it was true now the traders in this case allegedly troxel throwing my allegedly there in case i need that if it's true that struck him and some of the some of his buddies were actual traders meaning they actually were trying to overthrow the election
if that's true and the person they were trying to overthrow was actually hitler their heroes who is mad about the person who tries to kill hitler nobody but what if he was never hiller how do you live with yourself if you just tried to destroy the country because you believe imagine how dumb you'd feel if you been brainwashed by cnn and msnbc and the like and how you feel if you've been brainwashed into or throwing your own country and none of it was real that's what just happened where it looks like that's what's happening we could still be surprised with some of this
fbi investigation and muller and all that we could still be surprised but it doesn't look like we're going to be surprised at this point so how did the people who wanted to destroy the country because they had bought into they were so gullible they bought into this whole baloney story about russia how can they live with themselves they almost destroyed civilization and that's not it and by the way when i say almost destroyed civilization i mean they came very close to bringing down the government of the united states which would have had a pretty big ripple effect you know civilization would probably survive but it would be one of the worst things that ever happened to the country to the world and that's what that's the bind that their minds are in they've been so gullible and so taken by their own
people and so wrong that they either have to admit the dumbest most gullible people whoever lived or there's only one way out only one way out or trump really was hitler and now children in is true that's true children in cages exactly the same as the holocaust so their minds have to go there they don't have any other escape so if you're thinking to yourself how can we talk these people i have a view that maybe you think is unproductive the answer is you can't i don't believe there is a way to do it because they've they've painted themselves in a mental corner in which there are only
two possibilities they are gullible morons of a scale you've almost never seen before i mean we're talking about golf ability on a level i don't it would be hard to think of another example that was this bad but to believe that a guy who ended up you know reducing nuclear war risks and improving the economy and doing the good things that are actually happening to imagine that they were so wrong when they thought he was hitler that's these can't get out of that trap those brains are broken right now and you can thank your you can thank your media somebody says we must help the gullible morons i don't know of a way to do it frankly don't know of a way to do it
time will help with our immediate problem is to get past you know the the fake news and the outrage this happened but when it comes down to chill being injured nobody's brains are working correctly and and we we don't really have the option of using reason or logic or context none of those tools have any meaning once you said children in cages that's that's the end of thinking thinking ends with a sentence children in cages no more thinking everybody turn off the thinking you just got to stop the children cages you got to stop that situation all right time time will help the emotions subside because no or how bad something is we get used to it we don't want to get used to it but
so no matter how bad the situation is we'll get used to it at the same time steps will happen i'm sure not fast enough the steps will happen to make it less of a burden on children so i think over time it will it will lessen in our in our minds
children cages has strong elements of truth well it's completely true they are children they are in cages you know it it doesn't help anybody to say they're not in cages ordered the young don't use the word think it's like well it's not dictate it's not a cage is more of a hi and detainment center it's a cage okay what cages the when they first get picked up there in actual literal cages later there and a shelter but they they can't leave so it's a yes it is a structure that they're in that they can't get out of so that's about
close to a cage as you can get do you think trump should back down that's good question should trump back down depends what he wants yeah he's if he's aiming for the long term he probably should do what he can to make the situation better in the short term but really not i'm not sure what backing down means in this context because he's offered as have a number of people i have offered solutions so he said that he would take a number of different solutions and as long as those solutions exist and the congress can you can adopt them
i don't think he will back down so my guess is that he won't and i'm not sure that he should because he is on he is on the side of the best long term solution for children and if you were to go to the short term solution and make it worse in the long term the would be the president that his supporters elected did tom say in fast yeah let's talk about in fast so in trump's tweets he said that the the immigrants were infesting such as ms thirteen
well my reading comprehension sees in fast in that in that sense as hyperbole which is talking about the you know the bad actors the child traffickers the ms thirteen and stuff but of course but of course that is taken as secret racist whistle in fast i think it was a if you're looking for i swear i think the president made a mistake i would say that would be one yeah the the word in fast
doesn't help him with his base doesn't help them with the people who disagree doesn't help in the world so i would say that word in fast even though he meant it to refer to ms thirteen the same way you talk about animals it was that was an own goal so if you're looking for me to support the word contrast i won't because that was just a persuasion wording mistake that a pretty big one so as mistakes go that would be you know that i'll add that to my list of things that or persuasion mistakes that didn't help anybody alright i'm going end now and i will talk you all better
Transcript generated on 2019-11-13.