A serial rapist is stalking the streets of Ogden, Utah. Police are on the hunt for both the rapist and the source of a string of lingerie survey phone calls. Cary Hartmann turns to psychics and a private investigator in his search for his missing girlfriend, Sheree Warren. Meanwhile, detective Jack Bell begins to learn one of his key suspects is harboring secrets.
Season 3 of Cold includes descriptions of rape, sexual assault, murder and domestic violence. Please take care when listening.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This season of the cold podcast includes descriptions of rape, sexual assault, murder and domestic violence. Please take care in listening. It's now november, twenty fifth nineteen, eighty five at eight p m. This is the
of Sherry Warren. She disappeared from salt lake city october, second, nineteen, eighty five, approximately six, thirty p m from the
tom ploys crediting near
Two months have passed since the disappearance of sherry warn her boyfriend carry hartman, sat down with the tape recorder.
This is all the information I can possibly remember. If I don't get it all today are put together piece by piece
there's. So much that's happened for almost eight weeks now can't
hard to remember, every better carry recorded.
Tape for a guy named Michael new Meyer, a private investigator I've. Not
able to find the original, but new Meyer made a transcript of it. So your hearing,
these words, read by a voice actor, might be frank with you.
see anything short of a miracle other than turning up
simply, there remains, if that's the case or her
king in the door. Again, terry recorded this. For a p, I not Roy police, detective jack bell, not sure why Harry did that jack
ever received. The tape. Like me, he's only ever seen the sixteen page spiral bound transcript jerry brought. It was ozone both for it was all tied up.
One of those that you combined yourself, new Meyer terrible's, our
Michael new Meyer had a lot in common with carry hartman new might
served in the navy and after getting out, had taken a job with the ogden police department.
After long me come out here to roy and last along here,
started his own private, detective business or whatever
carry admit new mire at the nice corporation call center, where they were both moonlighting in the fall of eighty five, they became fast friends and the topic of sri came up in conversation. New Meyer told carry had worked a homicide case in the past. He volunteered to look into it
His disappearance carry made handwritten notes about this conversation, and I have copies. They say quote new meyer, private, dick sort of wants to help all dead
Those needed has some good leads one.
to remain underground for now. So that's. Why carry recorded the tape to tell
his version of the story to Michael new meyer, MIKE I've put together
Everything that I can think of up to date- it's just
opinion and is giving you what you asked for as much for me,
as I could carry offered few solid details about his relationship with sri.
He didn't, say how they met or talk about any of her interests or aspirations. He described himself simply as her lover
I took her into my folks home and down to my sister's place and solid pretty soon
she was a member of the family
for anyone knew it. She was carrying the conversation and doing the dishes and very exceptional young woman.
A man falling in love with a woman after she cleans his dishes. Where have I heard that before
A moment ago. I mentioned, carries notes about sharif disappearance. There's another
page where he wrote down the titles of two songs. The first was cherished by cool and the game. It's chorus repeats the lines cherish the love we have. We should cherish
life we live now. This is the kind of lady that would come home after work.
lying here on the couch in my bathrobe with candles around the room
the gone and a drink waiting. She was a very affectionate, giving generous wonderful lady to die and he was madly in love. Supposedly
she had wait for him to get home for more than half candles. Let wine or office who block vote
but if she had some problems there with jerry,
found anybody that shit
share them with the second song.
come back and stay by Paul young includes the lyrics
since you ve been gone opened. My
eyes, and I realize what we had together. Will you ever return?
I know at the time that I was going machinery there
No one else in her life she was varies.
despite an extreme rehab, I say that
because of our relationship with the exception. This is cold season. Three episode, three cherished the love from chaos. Alpine casts, I'm dave kali.
Carry hartman's statement to private investigator Michael new mire include,
a new version of his account of them.
surely Warren disappeared
I was at home, which is at six. Ninety seventh ogden utah, the phone rang. It was bored thirty p m
carry said: he'd stopped by his apartment after finishing work, and we state college for the day before heading two.
second job. There was sure it.
The conversation went something like this. She said what are you gonna do afterwards? I work
time out at nice corporation. I said well, I'm going to me.
A more carrion dave were
They had served together in the ogden police reserved her care.
Called dave. His best friend,
He said he told Sherry he indeed,
to rendezvous at a bar called sebastian. Next to the sewing machine repair shop. Dave own at around nine pm they'd have to drinks, then call it
what's because she was kind of joking high cats that'll be about four in the morning, and I said no, I said I'm going to have two drinks and it's coming right. Home at this
one time that little lady meant everything in the entire world to me.
working all night with the boys, just wasn't water was cracked up to be in. When I said to drinks- and I was coming home- that's what I meant she said- tat wonderful said:
I'll be waiting for you at home. That's the last word
I ever heard for her.
Carry said he had run a little late, getting too sebastian that night arriving just after nine
said, Dave more was already there waiting for him. We talked out a couple of drinks
I decided at that time it would be allowed lot nicer to how sheree down there.
I called my home no answer.
when the phone rang and she didn't answer. I knew at that moment something was wrong:
trees, mother's house, the product
We ten ten, thirty ass. She said she
not here, isn't she.
With you that
and that I knew at that moment. Something was wrong and drastically roar
How well I know the latest gave me
told us in the last episode he remembered going to the bar with carry at six, not nine. So again,
every story here is out of sync, and it's not just off from what dave said. It doesn't line up with what carry himself told detective jack bell. The day after sherry disappear.
Back then, he had said he had found out. She was missing the next morning from sherry's mom
sure is mom Mary Sorenson told pulleys. She had received two calls from carried the night of so here in this statement, carry
shifted his story to bring it into alignment with marries. I keep calling I called all night
I came home approximately ten thirty eleven collar ma called girlfriends. Nothing.
Sure you told her mom on the day of her disappearance. She had planned to pick up her son from her estranged huh
and chalk after work. She had then in time
to bring her son home and have dinner at her parents house, but in this work
of carry story. He said sure it instead planned to meet up with
him, leaving her son with chalk that night through the following day. What they do is checked
privileges as far as the sun goes on wednesdays and thursdays works out real
Well for her picked him up on
stay and delivers on thursday night surely was suppose,
to be at work early the next morning, forty miles south of home in salt lake city. Even if our
nation ship wasn't good and it was absolutely excellent.
She had a brand new job, a big promotion. She would not leave her son and just take off ditching her
to stay away. On a week night with carry potential
blowing her new promotion would have been out of character for sri this
The type of lady there were not show up if she was
to be a minute late. She would call feuds going.
half a minute. Let's you would call carries
After calling fisheries mom, he had dialed Roy city police despatched to report. Her missing. Despatch demagoguery
or do I believe, jack bell? Who now has kicks obviously
Is it the circumstances? There was no incriminating evidence of foul play today I didn't
for my finger on it right away
later on. I fell like he had picked me to report it too, because he knew
Jack now believes in retrospect carried pushed him toward possible persons of interest pushed away from himself, whichever which way
They included a credit union patron. There is a man who came into the credit union ass sure for a date she went and have a drink with them at Sebastian.
he's a real weirdo. He butter a lot called her.
Wouldn't leave her alone, as well as a
I shall read briefly dated after separating from her husband before dating carry
no. This guy was imbalance and drugs. To what extent I dont know
No, it was strong enough and often enough that it turns reoffend, she told them they hit the road, but carry took a more pointed.
In talking about the last man known to have seen sherry alive. I think we need to look at this richard moss
you heard from richard moss in the last episode he was, the branch manager surely had been training on the credit unions, computer system
Well, MR richard moss, Richfield was working with sheree those today periods. She were close enough for this guy's. She went to lunch with them. They did go in
to richard masses car the first day now. This is a point that I must bring up when asked
richard ma said well
he was driving a marine nineteen. Eighty four toyota boy being
No one in that entire credit union knew what type of car she was driving. None
I, but yet this richard moss knew all of a sudden. How did you know
when they went to luncheon MR mosses car tat, a strange
Carry was well aware. His old high school acquaintance jack bell had already interviewed richard moss over the phone. Richard MOSS told detective jack bell other people.
sherry told him see you tomorrow, I'm going to whack staff pick up my husband who needs to get his car
parents and give him a ride home now
She say that of chalk got through to her with a phone call and cancel the appointment. Why? In
aid unless she was just drawn. The brush him off which is passed on. This is one of them,
arrange things at all chocolate cold, but carry did everything he could do to promote. Chuck warrant has been the guilty party in earnest, even if the guy didn't do it
pray to god. He didn't do it. Jack had seen chuck warren as his prime suspect since the beginning, thanks in part to information provided by carry carry you
with innuendo. They were having some problems with agreeing on child support. Courteously,
and I believe that it would be two hundred and fifty two dollars. That's based on track
per year course image.
You get money and carry used. Hearsay seems
strange struck with DR and eighty four. Thirteen thousand dollars super to whack staff, toyota on the whim of getting it repaired and no one ever seen either of them seems very strange, so carry could paint a picture using palette of circumstantial
colors, oh, and by the way, as of this moment, that eighty four
super is on a lot for sale, chucks, pleading, the poor boy
Poor situation, I can't afford this. I can't afford that. I know for a fact: amanda stick out.
Twenty two twenty three thousand dollars. Second mortgage on his home, he did pay off that super.
We set a dispute over child support, had stalled cherries divorce
for some reason, shot come up with a figure of one hundred and eighty one dollars then was paying matt fairly regularly to cherie at the point that she disappeared. He did our five
hundred dollars. She hadn't
began to try and straight now this money matter. The man is
very very money. Hungry he's a money person. That's all he thinks about supposedly by carries account money served his motive for chuck
to kill sheri according to sri, should I believe her. If she said the sun wasn't gonna come up by tat, bats chuck came into the
ready union, maybe a weaker, maybe two weeks before she disappeared, the credit
and had members as well staff meeting
In so many words, I believe,
we're very pointed words I'm going to kill you. I will
Even for you for this, we ve heard
story. A couple of times now from carry from shore is friend pen bulk
and from the last person known to have seen sherry alive, richard moss, but this retelling of carries version.
included a new detail. He flashed a gun at least a tree.
I blame it on her. She didn't reported to the police any of this.
I tried to get her to. She would do it, she
to keep things status quo again, carried pulled this story to detective jack bell about a week after she read it
appeared, but there is no mention of a gun in jack's notes of that conversation down
and told me, ok, shock come in with a gun in his waistband
Now it was told my new meyer and her stepmother jack's notes show salaries by
confirmed. Chalk and jury had been in some sort of confrontation at the credit union, branching ogden a week or so before, surely disappear so carries.
laurie contained at least a colonel of truth, but I've talked to Sharif former boss myself. She didn't
amber, seeing or hearing about a gun. I was told
by Ladys, a worker that credit union wish saree. They said that shock with very volatile. He
is there pleasant to talk to, but yet he would explode upon getting irritated mad strange personality done a lot of strange things.
truck war and flashing a gun in a crowded credit union would have been more than strange. Any teller who saw it
likely hit the hold up alarm, but maybe
Sure is the only person who saw it and maybe carries the only person with whom she shared that detail,
or maybe carry decided to embellish the story to push more suspicion onto chuck Warren.
My own opinion, I think, chuck knows something about it involved to what degree
I can't say I think you know something about it. Definitely.
Carry statement was a master class in the not so subtle art of casting aspersions shock took off work for poland
depressed in l a day after sherry was messing
Supposedly went home, put always vehicles in his garage, walk to the
in city mall back and
is to be a sixty block round trip. That's why
a heck of a walk. This man
there's not a physical specimen. It's not
It is not an athlete. It's not. An average steer. Runner he's not. This is completely out of character for him. This man knew
Positive thing carry had to say about shock involved, his signing the paperwork that it allowed police to surgeries car after it had turned up in las vegas the onward thanks
It's done to date as to lend a hand whatsoever, did sign a consent, search
we were hoping will find something incriminating in the car. That was not the case,
carry summarised what las Vegas metro police had found in the car? He mentioned the fingerprints they lifted from the driver door window,
They haven't confirmed whatsoever whose prince they are. Hopefully las vegas will send prince up to us
we'll be able to make match up with those carry use.
Words like us and we as if he was himself a police, detective working the case. He had clearly learned about the details of the car from detective jack bell, but jack was begun
an interim agreement how open he had been in sharing information with carry
to me. It was more carries manipulations, more of the same thing about and pity me to take the regime record from it, because we know each other,
I wish to carry said he had at first thought sharif car might surface in the mountains east of ogden. Why
You were kind over the opinion, Jack Bela myself that the car was dumped in cardy pined, you last create some are deep.
something you can get a car into quickly here, too reservoir sector up deep cauzee loss was on the other side,
the name cause might sound familiar. It came up a couple of times in episode, one cauzee reservoirs, it's near the camera,
Where carry hartman tried to lure heidi pausing at the start of our story,
cause he's near, where carries friend, brent morgan, the taxidermy
his wedding a year before sherry disappeared, so carry knew the kazi area. Well,
but where is causing in relation to lost creek reservoirs picture a percent sign like on a keyboard.
small circle in the upper left, a diagonal, slash and another
circle in the bottom right. The top left circle would be causing the bottom right circle lost. Creek. The slashed between them is a mountain
in his statement to private investigator Michael myers
harry harmon said he had checked both cauzee and lost creek for sure rewards car. There wasn't a
sign of any vehicle. Going down, you know, dragging rocks, they would have to do some skating
Nothing carry knew the area. Well, he had dear hunt
in the hills, around lost creek for years, he'd even taken surety lost creek earlier that summer
sure- and I my two boys, my fishing- had a picnic up at last. Regrets warp
croydon by the cement plant is past, devil, slide absolute, fantastic, wonderful, they couldn't even better
sherry did everything to put together the lunch fried chicken she bought the beer pop put all the
she had her dad running around town getting eyes for it. She wouldn't let
we do a thing. This is a kind of
numerous lady. She was.
not lady, she is but lady. She was carry referred to share in the past tense. Throughout this
meant, even though she had only been gone about a month and a half police still believed she might yet be alive.
Carry said. He had again searched for Sharif. Car lost creek himself while up, therefore the dear hunt,
My three we learn. I scoured that thing. There was an appeal
that reservoir that I could get to than a car could get to that. I didn't check and double check, obviously not
there I felt all alarmed at the car was not in the state. The ring
being we had two hundred thousand dear hunters. We had at least that many pheasant hunters there and no one saw thing well, it turned out the car was in vegas, carry had a thing
about how sure is car made it to vegas armor they
The lady has gotten real trouble and she's not with us anymore. She's been dumped she's in vegas and some
made various their get away and use their car to do. It
it had been there a long time might jack bells opinion. It had been
or possibly right off the bat. It went straight from salt lake to vegas. Why
someone didn't spot it I'll, never be able to answer. In the last.
so we heard how carried told detective jack bell of a co worker of his who had had a dream about Sri carry repeated.
story here to private investigator, Michael new meyer. You can take that
For what you want. My this man is extremely credible.
This gentleman told me that three or four times in his life, he woke up in the middle of the night, with a startling sinking feeling dream some
comes to him in the middle of the night. He told me
and he was writing this down when he was telling me
carry icy, see in the company of a big man, approximately six, two or three two hundred twenty pounds.
Blonde wide set eyes around big rock candy mountain down here around beaver utah.
beaver as a small town that sits on interstate fifteen, almost exactly half way between salt lake city. You talk and las vegas nevada, big rock candy.
Mountain is about fifty miles away from beaver, near Richfield, where richard moss lived again. Richard was the tall
broad credit union manager. She had been training the day she disappeared, carries retelling of his
workers dream continued, even describe
another person being there as being taught them really
care wearing a black jacket, Sharif tall fairly, then surely stood five foot. Five, that's not tall
but pay attention to this bit about the jacket she
star care, and she has my
a jacket on hearing this
This man, those stopping at a convenience, store buying a donor to buying some gas carried previously told detective jack bell.
Sure we had left for work the morning of her disappearance wearing his black parka, and he used this coworkers dream to reinforce that idea why this entire case could boil down to a tale of two coats, because
There are conflicting accounts of what code or jacket surely had on when she left for work. The morning of her disappearance
we'll get into this in more depth later in our story, but keep in mind knowing
What she was wearing could help prove who killed her carries.
Worker wasn't the only person having psychic experiences involving sure reward detective jack, but
had also received an anonymous letter just days before carry made his recording for the private investors.
The letter writer had claimed to have special abilities. I got some information from a site, supposedly withdrawing sign. Cassell
new station. I work for had received a similar letter around the same time.
yeah I knew there was one to jessica jack should know, because chaos
gave its letter to him back in eighty five carry hartman knew that too. He described the cycle,
letter to K, I sell in his statement to the private investigator jack bell
has in his possession of four page letter of a lady that recounts her dreams same thing in essence, the same thing as carries coworkers dream.
said she was in the mountains by red rocks
she saw partying musical laughing entertainment. She saw Sri coerced out to a truck sri. Realising what had happened tried to get away struggled her neck was either snapped, strangled very gruesome.
I described the girl with two guys in it. She said this gentleman drove a light. Colored board four by four, have done two tires mounted in rear bed on either side at a truck stop in the mountain she saw this man stopping at a convenience store. Also, he knew the owner of that convenience store, or at least the person working there bought a can. Of course,
steel rammed mirrored glasses, there was a female body that true they got rid of it somewhere red rock area. This is
really hard. For me, though,
this lady saw, mutilated body talked underneath evergreen tree with some powerful way to children cannot be seen from the road by a bolder five
four foot diameter, sure
these body, before it was mutilated, was molested. Then this ladys letter the worst possible of all things that could happen. Elles. Basically, what I remember that
It's funny that two people completely separate of each other would describe this guy guy's blonde. Two hundred twenty pats funny is not the word. I would use,
I've been in contact with some astrologers who told me this says of this morning. The lady told me she deterred.
sharif body is twenty two miles south east of the last place she was seen, which would put it about little cottonwood. Can this was
is third separate reference to some form of psychic. In this statement she sees two men slightly belt friendly type, not the rock.
truck, stop cowboy type business type business paper,
She said in her professional opinion. The lady is not alive.
don't put any weight on these dreams or psychic stories as evidence, but I do find it interesting carry described a big guy who was a bit cowboy and a bit
business man rolled into one richard moss, the credit
union manager. Sherry was training on the day she disappeared is tall and broad, and because
richard was the last person known to have seen sherry alive. He was an obvious person of interest for police,
We heard in the last episode richards dad owned a livestock auction, but richard had himself pursued a career in banking. He was a little bit country, a little bit. Business type jack bell started to
or, if carry was using the dreams and psychics to try
derail his investigation. I started looking at carey, bruce serious zones getting all this other stupid crap that I knew wasn't coming from truck like these psychics. These pictures Carey had provided his private investigator with three separate psychic stories, all involved too
also aspects trauma to the neck or throat of a female victim and disposal location in the mountains. P
possibly near red rock cliffs. The spot sherry was lasts
as far as anyone knew was at the credit union office in salt lake city, it was just a few blocks from the toy yoda dealership where she had planned to meet her estranged, husband, chuck warren.
end of her work day. I'll briefly touch on the wax staff toyota situation. I've been there.
There are three times myself with flyers that I printed up
one salesman that I've talked to
machinery at all that night carry said one of the first
ass he had made after learning. Sherry was missing, had been to a close friend of his his
his name is Stephen K, bartlett special investigator for the district attorney's office. When Kerry says the district attorney's office, he means the salt lake county district attorney, ogden and roy are in weber county, not salty.
County roy police, detective jack bell was leading the search for sri and carry it leverage his high school acquaintance with jack.
it inside information about the case, but Sri disappeared from salt lake city. We
gave salt lake police a role in the search and carry was blind to what salt lake police were doing. That, presumably, is why he reached out to another of his childhood chums Steve bartlett,
I called stephen said Steve. We ve got a problem, I said, but get them
got it immediately. I told
the severity of the case
of our relationship,
new right off the bat. Something was wrong, carried fed, Steve bartlett with the story of sharif disappearance, emphasising she left
Her work that night added to meet her estranged, husband at wag staff, toy yoda in salt lake city carried urged his old friend to investigate
stephen went down there and approach these people on the night shift. Ask them the same question. They
team chuck, worn sri worn anywhere on the premises or the car or any appointment.
Any time at evening by content.
Steve bartlett,
carried in. He would be among the first to hear if salt lake police turned up any leads
just another example of carry using his friendship to know who investigators we're talking to
what those people were saying and where officers were,
Looking for sure reward, he had minette
waited Steve bartlett, just as he had detective jack bell
Hmm.
Dreams can sometimes seem so vivid. We mistake them for reality. They linger as we wake
in those moments between sleep and waking, the content of our subconscious can seem all too real
that's how a woman,
while Danielle felt when she came awake around
five, a m on the morning of march twenty third nineteen. Eighty six, then
not her real name. I mused,
the pseudonym to protect her privacy in the dream,
and yet felt something rough running over her cheek. Her arms seem too heavy if weighted down by cinder blocks. She opened her eyes, unfocused without contact lenses to the familiar but darkened space of her bedroom. The dream should have ended in that moment, but it didn't
because Daniele had not been dreaming, but dark figure leaned over pinning her arms to her sides stumbled face, pressed against hers kissing her.
Danielle. The figure said danielle
it had a man's boys carried on breath, wreaked of alcohol and stale cola
Are you sixteen daniel? He asked she didn't answer. Are you sixteen? He repeated
I'm thirty. She said confused and terrifying. She squinted trying to make out his face. Don't look at me I'll kill you. He said she began to cry, don't make any noise. He said, I'm a mother plea
don't hurt me. She said her young son was not at home, thankfully had fallen asleep. It is babysitter
and Daniel, had wanted to wake him when she had returned home that evening, after a night out with a friend or you scared, honey. The man asked Daniele thought she detected a note of excitement in his voice at the idea of her terror. Yes, she answered its normal for me to be
here. I am not going to describe what happened next. It's enough.
No Daniele had feared for her life. She had believed the man might injure or kill her if she had resisted just hurry up and get this over with she
thought the entire encounter lasted just minutes. She remained
frozen in fear on her bed, as the man left, she heard him walk through her kitchen, where he stopped just long enough to steal her purse. Daniel waited until
went quiet. She then grabbed her robe and ran from her home pounding on a neighbor's door in tears. The neighbour called again city police. This rape was the night in a string,
similar unsolved sexual assault in ogden, dating back over two years. In each case,
had entered a woman's home uninvited. Usually, while she slept this man,
broken into Daniels home by
crying out a window screen assumed life
We check windows and doors. Shane minor was at that time. A detective for the ogden
the police department window was locked pulled screen off
the window pry the window open shameful,
may. The rash of rapes and ogden had overwhelmed the loan detective assigned to handle sex crimes in the city. So then, I started going out to others in the detective division was work in those cases.
Well, that's how shane minor was drawn into the search for a man. Some were calling the odd
city rapist. They were quite active at night out about in the city. The string of ten or so attacks had not gone unnoticed by
press they would occur throughout the whole city of ogden. Wasn't a specific area
ogden standard examiner an afternoon news
preserving the city. Ended suburbs began reporting on the cases readers women, especially, were urged to lock their doors at night to not go out after dark alone.
These would happen between Levin thirty midnight and four five o clock in the morning
the idea of a serial rapist stocking the darkened streets. Put the entire community on edge people were calling ogden police with tips almost daily work,
buddy would be spotted outside of a house. Wasn't
the thoroughly a burglary or break in, but catching the rate.
in the act had so far proved impossible. I remember
it is time to where you get that the case in the morning for follow up and a guy.
Today we were getting hit regularly enough. We would work double shifts to go out of the city at night and stake the city out to see if they're going to hit again
One of the ogden city rapist attacks had occurred just weeks after sherry, worn disappeared in october of eighty five, a cup
more happens. Six months later, in march of eighty six, two more attacks came in may.
followed by another in june. In one of those cases, a man
the home of a woman whom all call caroline again.
not her real name,
line had fallen asleep on her couch.
just an old war movie on tv, she'd, start
Wait around three: thirty, a m to the sound of a click and the tv going dark. She had sat up. The shadowed figure of a man stood next to the tv
and he had darted across the room and grabbed her by the arms before she could get off the couch. I know you have two boys and what room they're in the man had said. Don't piss around, I do have a gun for a moment. Caroline
She was being prank. She called a man by the name been telling him it wasn't for
and to stop screwing around
said his name wasn't. Then he had been watching her and knew she was alone. He asked how old
she was caroline reacted in a jolt of panic, trying to twist herself free you'll, wake the kids he said,
I'll blow their heads off, and so she stopped fighting. I'm not going to detail the further facts.
This assault either, but they were largely similar in style and sequence. To what the other woman I mentioned, Daniele had experienced when it was over. The man instructed
line, not to tell anyone what he had done.
said he knew her and her husband caroline had been separated for a few years and would return to kill them if she reported having been raped. She did it
anyway calling police from neighbours home after the men exited. She told enough,
sir, the rapist wanna thick coat like a ski park or military fatigue jacket. She hadn't heard a car, as he had left that morning, detectives found a boot print in a flower bed outside carolines front
window, and so then we started checking out a lot of those areas where we had reported sexual assaults or break any type of rapes and seen the same shoe print so that kind of gave us one lead. Detective,
believed the man had seen caroline asleep on her couch, while window peeping, he appeared to have entered her house through an unlocked back door.
caroline went through a medical exam that morning, what's often called a rape kit
But a few days later she skip to follow up appointment with police. A detective called to ask why, according to a report,
caroline said she no longer wanted to pursue the case. My experience was camp
two men to it.
you gotta, give them room
Jane minor, told me. He encountered this kind of reluctance from victims of rape and sexual assault, often in his career
yeah and just dislike you re victimize and then by Heaven. Him go through again as many times that keep
one through, especially when a ghost court. I think a lot of people pick up on it.
I see that they just don't want to go there. The ogden detectives did their best to build trust with the various women. They believe each might have important information that could help unmask the rapist's identity, but they could only get that information by
talking tough questions. They just been traumatized, so how do they know what's important? They can. I can give you the real basics, but sometimes you need more than that to find out what her evidence is. The detectives had to be direct, but also empathetic. The women had to show great courage
rapists threats carried weight because the newspaper had recently told the story of a south ogden woman named Joyce Yost, who had been sexually assaulted, reported it to police and then disappeared.
As the organ city, rapist investigation was ramping up in nineteen, eighty six police elsewhere in utah were beginning to hunt for a suspected.
serial killer. There are a lot of missing girls,
of inside and outside a utah where it appears there might be foul play, suspect a string of unsolved and on the surface
connected. Murders of young women had plagued the northern part of the state during the mid eighties. Evoking memories of serial killer too
Bundy lundy still owes you tar. Ten years for kidnapping Bundy was
this time in eighty six firmly in custody fighting to forestall his scheduled execution in the state of florida, Bundy has repeatedly claimed his innocence, and his trip to the
drink chair. If it comes at all, maybe years away, so Bundy couldn't be responsible for these murders which all took place after his incarceration
one of the most egregious had taken place on the streets of salt lake city, wherein
If have eighty five, someone killed a fifty
year. Old girl named Christine guy egos leah
I goes does not get emotional when she tells of what happened to her daughter here that she was being badly
stabbed and tell the night broken. I couldn't stabber anymore and then shot twice in the head. Coroners recovered the bones
we're thirty eight caliber round the type used in many police revolvers.
just shy of a year later.
Twenty year old woman starting a new job as a seven eleven clerk die,
a similar death. It happened in the
suburb of late in utah partway between
salt lake and ogden Carla Maxwell body was discussed.
by a regular customer. Looking for his morning cup of coffee around three forty five. He found the victim behind the sale.
counter shot five times in the head and tat lightens police chiefs. Does the physical evidence
I swim and won't speculate over a motive. He does say them.
Weapon was probably a thirty eight caliber revolver the killer, didn't steal anything from the store,
The only item missing was carla's purse, which police believed the killer had taken as a trophy,
communities are feeling the impact of this killing laden and ogden. Where Maxwell lived and went to school a few weeks later,
people living in a residential neighbourhood of salt lake city heard a first gunfire late at night they came out.
I do find a woman named LISA strong dead on the sidewalk
We condemn it.
cross the road and we see in the body of the lady augusta rode over there?
soon as we went, sir, we said she was dead and weak
back in the house and now than I meant to kind of place. Strong was it
the five year old artist and model who had grown up in ogden. She had been
walking home from work a bit after midnight. When a man had accosted her, she had tried to run, but the attacker had shot and killed her for no apparent reason. Police were covered, one of the slugs. It was a thirty eight, so the crime lab had bullets from all three killings.
But listed analysis showed a single gun had fired them all the solid
Please now say the guy
skilling is tied to two others: the murders of carla maxwell of layton and lisa strong in salt lake city salt lake police wondered if a ted Bundy style killer had once again found fertile hunting ground in their community. They formed a task force in june of eighty six in the hopes of capturing the killer. Christine guy ego says mom
tv station care she felt frustrated Leah guy goes says it's unfortunate. It took the murders of two more women before a task force was born. Well, they haven't forgot her.
I wouldn't allow that, because that guy needs to
it's that he really needs to be stopped. How many more you know to ted Bundy's, but salt lake police? Captain o J peck didn't just limit his team to the three killings they had.
by ballistics. He sent out a letter to police agencies in states all across the west, saying they were quote keenly interested in any
all thomas sides involving female victims. They were looking for
smith and wesson or router thirty, eight or three fifty seven.
Caliber handgun, because a three fifty seven can also fire thirty eight caliber rounds. Captain Peck told the press. They would examine any unsolved disappearances of
and across the region. We're looking at those at great length. The task force put together a list of names they included. Samba should sound familiar to listeners of this podcast like Joyce, Yossi teresa grieves and
Surely Warren too of the salt lake murders had taken place less than two miles from the credit union office. Where sheree had last benzene, which raised the question, could surely have died at the hands of a serial killer. The task force intended to find out
The salt lake city police, invited Roy city detective jack bell, though eden
two gator on the shore. We warn case to contribute to their task force, but salt lake would run the show
had no problem sitting on the sidelines. He didn't
think. A serial killer had murdered sharing by that
point. In the summer of eighty six jack's focus had shifted from series husband, chuck warren to her. Boyfriend, carry hartman
juries seem to do everything he could make shocked me is sure,
His disappearance
very did a brilliant job for a while
it banning jack's here since the day after sharif disappearance, repeating any rumour that seemed to cast chuck warren in a negative light, jack told
Some of it had borne out like the claim chuck had nearly killed his first wife Alice when they split
I can allegedly beat als with a tire iron. I wish he hadn't looked so guilty to start with, but he did gradually. Though jack had come
believe carry was manipulating him, leaning on the fact.
had known each other in high school a bit earlier. Job
mentioned. Having received a letter from an anonymous psychic, it had described
woman being killed near a truck stop in the mountains. The writer had described red rock cliffs, like arsenals
thinking. Was all these psychic stuff
all of these pictures or coming from jerry. At that time I thought
He for some reason. I like her to be found and not and pointed to him whether it was for her parents,
jack told me he had given the psychic letter to ogden police for forensic analysis, but never got it back leather
to the fbi.
and again news station ksl had also received a similar psychic letter ksl had
and its letter over to jack who, in turn gave it to the salt lake city taskforce,
along with a sample of carry hartman's handwriting for comparison
have you been able to find that I tried to chase down both
These letters by pestering sources and by filing a series of public records, requests. Ogden Sid.
couldn't find anything related to jack bell psychic letter softly.
City police, on the other hand, did find a copy
The chaos l psychic letter.
had been missing from the shore reborn case file for thirty five years. The letter includes
hand drawn sketches. The first is of a war.
From the shoulders up now
to her out the words reddish hair
beautiful young mother,
maroon import and apparent reference to sharif car, and
Their page includes a drawing up a pine tree with the words through
body over ledge,
Body rolled well under a large evergreen body
not able to be seen.
I'm no handwriting expert, but I've seen a fair amount of carry hartman's writings. He tended to use block capitals or lower case cursive the psychic letter you
Neither carry dots his eyes with circles, the psychic letter writer doesn't so. If the info
nation in the psychic letter originated with carry its
likely. Someone else did the actual writing my personal thanks to us
city records officer, candy all read for digging deep and fine
the missing letter. I cannot stress enough how important
records- are when looking into a case this old, because memories fade with time. Accidents along a girl
you're, helping stir this all rain up below saw. So let me tell you about another paper record in the shrubbery worn case.
to report private investigator Michael knew my rode up and gave to detective jack bell.
new meyer listed chuck warren as his top suspect, along with one of chucks coworkers and a repo man who had worked at the same credit unions. Sri
New mire did not include carry hartman as a suspect.
in new myers eyes, carry with simply sharif boyfriend, Joe a like war, but here's what
most interesting to me new. My road, sherry was last seen
wearing a black john whites casual craft jacket size. Forty two. He went into detail describing
as waste linked with nylon, lining zip collar and snapped down front. That's amends coat
the type of business attire cherie would have worn to the office. It would have absolutely swamped her. A
two inch chest on a woman who stood just five foot five and weighed one hundred fifteen pounds would have looked ridiculous. Richard moss
the last person known to have seen cherie alive, never mentioned sherry
wearing a black man's coat, even if he had
doubt he would have known the exact make and size know that detail could have only come from carry hartman
private investigator, Michael new Meyer, was describing carries coat.
yet another indication carry want
even need people to think Sherry disappeared. While wearing his black parka for
detective jack bell told me, Michael new report. Skewed in carries favour, which isn't surprise
in considering where new got god most of his information carry hired and carry guilty now pretty lines statement if you haven't picked up on it yet I'll just tell you, Jack didn't, have much respect
were michael new meyer, probably because of what his report concluded hang with me here, because this is going to get complicated
New my had seen a story in the salt lake tribute which
quoted the mother of the first salt lake city, shooting victim christine guy egos, lay a guy. I go
said she learned her daughter had told a convenience store clerk the night of her death. She
going under cover to invest
The murder of a friend of hers named philip kirby kirby, had
in october of eighty four. His body surfaced in may of eighty five days before
christine diagnosis, murder uncovered by the most.
Equally of means a peg this morning escape
for much pan and an lds stake farm east of airplane character.
Found her rooting in a pile of rocks,
Johnny sheriffs deputies were called the scene. They found a body
under the rocks. Detective
berry suspects, murder.
he said, is not likely. Someone would crawl under three feet of rock and die detectives quickly, pieced together what had happened
they identified. The remains is turkey's and arrested the caretaker,
brother, John Monson, on suspicion of murder sergeant
burberry says the dead man and this aspect were formerly coworkers at assault salt lake dealership parts department. We believe that the two individuals were involved in some type of the theft ring and slowly
kirby and monson had worked for wag staff. Toil oda
the same dealership where she was supposed to meet her estranged husband on the afternoon of her disappearance official suspect. The two were using the church, farmers, a hiding place for stolen property, the parrot
billing otto parts to the dealership, selling them on the side and pocketing the profit.
Kirby had developed cold feet and wanted out
Monson would later admit killing kirby to keep him from squealing again.
Christine diagnosis death had come just ten days after the discovery of philip corbies remains
Her mom lay a guy. Ngos came to believe her daughter might have uncovered more about the wax staff. Toyota theft ring and gotten hers.
Killed in the process.
Hartman's private investigator Michael new mike adopted this theory as his own, replacing surely warren for christine diagonals. Maybe new mire suggested
sure he had stumbled into a criminal conspiracy. She wasn't supposed to know about. I asked jack bell of the theory of registered with him at the time. No, I didn't know wired register. I mean
register, but he's a flake michael new Meyer is no longer alive. I'm unable
confirm whether he was or was not a flake, but his report did little to assist in the search for sherry
it was basically carry driver, governs traxler dick to give them to vote.
There's a place on the campus of wieber state university on the east side of ogden, where, if you have the right set of key
you can unlock the door that takes you into this.
Ray underbelly of a building call
the swenson gymnasia you ve done your head under
run along the ceiling. You walk back to a space where
gets of the gems swimming pool the pumps drains and pipes hiss and grumble
Endless work rarely witnessed by anyone. It's in
unconventional place to record sound for a podcast, but I've
I you down here to meet a woman named jamie schmaltz. I should
they tell you how I realized, who.
harry hartman was Jimmy, had spent her
early twenties, working as a hostess and cocktail waitress at
hotel bar in ogden called the electric alley. It was one of carry hartman's hans.
I was standing there one night and he walked up to me and
remember what he said, but I remembered looking at him and then him. I think he asked me my name and I kept looking at him and it was like, I know
the sky from somewhere. He looks really familiar.
and so finally
it dawned on me. I was like
you know my mom
My mom was a hairdresser, so
come to find out. She cut his hair. Jimmy told me, Kerry had tried to flirt with her, but I didn't really pay attention to that stuff. I mean I was there doing my job, you know,
some time later, she mentioned having run into carry to her mom. I remember her seen something like just
careful with him- and I was like ok
But I didn't really think much of it. He soon
and I'll take. I a few years went by
Jamie quit her job at the electric alley and went to school in rolling weaver state college.
and one day I walk into my class in there
here's terry hartman anyway
nearly starts talking to me, and I don't remember
has this been thirty. Shippers
but he says: hey did you know, there's a.
A window in the swimming pool, the aquatic centre and
What do you mean site? Will there's a wind,
You can see people swimming- this was true, not there anymore, but the gym swimming
what did once have a viewing window below the water level? I'm not sure what it was for.
Whatever the reason access to the window was buried in the bowels of the building, not just any one could get down there. I have mentioned this before, but now its relevant repeat, carry worked for the college running the steam boilers and maintaining the pipes that snake through tunnels albany campus campus. He had the keys, carry asked jamie to come with him to see the swimming pool window site out. They headed over to the gym care.
open that locked door and assured jamie inside. So we go in there and its
underground in this basement and we
clear and the very back to assist him- and I
we lack the way in the very back and then there's this window. And yes, I see
Anybody can watch you at any time.
And they could see what you're doing in the swimming slake. Ok,
I didn't really like I don't know if I was supposed to a certain reaction, but I just thought it was kinda strange and I think I may have said
like that's gonna creepy
We can tell me why she'd agreed to go with carry alone to this secluded spot. She thought
maybe he had said something about being a cop. She couldn't remember Jamie admits she had been naive, then, and hadn't questioned kerry's motives. The way she does now. What was the purpose of taking me like? What like did he get off and Jamie told me Kerry? Didn't try anything that day,
under the pool she thinks she knows why if he tried to do anything once I got away, I know him once I got away that presumes a lot. If Jamie had screamed, no one would have heard her over the noise, but clearly that
It's not what happened. She walked back out into the sunlight perfectly safe. Looking back now, she's not sure how she got something out of it me agreeing to go there. While reading
what Jamie told me. I came across an article from may of eighty six in the archives of wieber states student newspaper, the signpost it said, campus police
received reports from several women who had come out.
the shower the jim and found a man sitting in the women's locker room watching them.
It went on to say, quote policeman
This is the same man who watches swimmers in the swenson Jim pool from a win.
Below water level, police chief. We can
did he said the man is thought to masturbate while watching the swimmers. I couldn't find any follow up stories about this swimming pool voyage,
so I dont know if he was ever identified or arrested.
I'm home one night and I get this phone call.
This man says I I'm doing a survey on ladies lodger hand, women's apparel can help me out here
in my mind. I know I had had some call before,
and so I thought
I find him before. Okay I'll, do it this time. So he just starts asking me questions and he said: okay, so we're going to talk about ladies' underwear. Do you like breaks farm, wear bikinis? What do you wear elsewhere? I was like well depends on what I'm wearing and he was like
what do you sleep there?
when I'm nice. Ok, he's start asking questions like what kind of nylons did lie.
Remember the other questions and tell he said why? Don't you tell me what you're breasts alike? Are they firm
not affirm our zackie, an oversight
that so little personal? Don't you think, and he just have this combat like quick and so
it seemed rejects. I answered him and then he said
well, what about your area? Allah is decisive,
like a dime size of a nickel or size.
quarter, and I said
What does that have to do with ladies lingerie, and he was just like we'd like to find out what women like that that the third and then like, I said I got
be quiet because I thought is he knows to reading like
I never heard anything similar.
Later. In the conversation I oughta sudden, I realise this
slight carry hartman,
think I may have even said to him. Your voice sounds familiar, but I
remember what he sat jamie and how to know
she hung up on the man after it
up the phone I felt like I just
response. I was really a comfortable. I was scared.
But also angry she picked up her phone book, look
carry hartman's, name and dialed is number
his line. Was busy Jamie forgot
This detail when we spoke, but I
asked her memory
showing her a report written by an organ police detective named chris Zimmermann,
Now that he's just I did that
I think that that right, it's like you
We get me like you know. Maybe we
met zimmermann before he was the ogden data
who had issued a prank parking ticket to president ronald reagan. Limousine Jamie told me she
first met Zimmermann after a man had groped her on campus. Some time before
this whole encounter with carry hartman Zimmermann had walked her through filing a report. In that case, because creed
had given me his card and he was a detective for often city. I felt comfortable
So I call them- and I was like- I hope you don't
I wish I said, but I
swear to god. I just got an upswing phone call from carry hartman it. He was really. I said he how, like I'm. I'm
The tariff zimmermann was among the detectives working the Ogden city rapist investigation. The rapist had struck again just days before. In that case
a woman had described waking around three. I am to the sound of noise in her living room
if you done to investigate and found a strange man there. He had come in through a window. She'd tried to fight to push him out of the house, make it easy for me. He had said I have a gun. If you don't cooperate, I'll hurt you and your baby
she had stopped fighting but warned the man her husband might come home soon. He had told her. That was a lie. He knew she was divorced or separated. I've been watching you for quite a while. He had said. I know where you shop. I know where you work. I know who your parents are. He had forced her back into her bedroom. She had no
did an odour. He smelled greasy as if he had been working around a machine or engine of some time. She had asked the man who he was
he replied, he was a cop would know if she called the police and would come back to kill her and her baby. If she did, he gave.
vice on how to better secure her windows and doors told her not to worry, because she wouldn't get pregnant,
then ass. He was leaving offered to send her money in the mail Zimmermann, the detective,
had gone on the news the next day and described this modus operandi. The only thing that we can come up with on that as there is a possibility that,
the women
around town gets to no one gets no information about them and then jimmy schmaltz.
Had seen detective zimmermann on tv talking about the rape cases, she told him on the phone she felt afraid because she fit the profile of the rape victims single in her twenties,
with the child so he's ok,
Are you saying by lock your door in Obama? She asked if there was a connection between the rapists and carry her
as a lingerie survey phone call. Could the call be a prelude to an attack? He knew he claims. There's no doubt by MIKE Zimmerman assured her. There was no connection that he knew of that was about to change,
the ogden city, rapist attacked. He had another woman on October twentieth, nineteen, eighty six, these
We have many of the same hallmarks demand
the women's home, as she slept, told hurry,
a police officer claimed to have
didn't show a gun and threatened to kill the one.
and her children at she didn't cooperate, Ogden policed.
Active, shane minor and his colleagues had been trying for months to find a common thread, the risk
Nevertheless, we had gone half day time of currents and the location started,
compile those men look
let them all on how the person got in kind of different thing.
Happen once they were inside and trying to get some jest for dealing with the same person or for them with more than one person
their lists included these commonalities, the victims
all single or separated with small children. The attacker used a quote:
minimum amount of force. He sometimes
Smelled of greece often still purses and would occur
Finally, mention police department connections
tat gives also saw similarities in the specifics of the sex acts, the telephone,
I came up here was around
to those who did not. Those were the same that person played into the breakin rapes had been going on that changed quantity.
Chris Zimmermann received a tape at the end of october. He wrote a report about but kept the woman anonymous
and today I dont know her identity.
woman, told Zimmermann she believed carry hartman could be the
in city rapist. She
personal knowledge they carry had for you
years made obscene lingerie survey phone calls. She also
said, carry lived just up the street from where
one of the rapes it occurred, Zimmermann's started digging.
New, carry had been in the army and police reserve in speaking with officers,
bout hartman? They stated he liked to show his badge and tell people he was a cop that comes from
port Zimmermann later filed in the case Zimmermann declined my record
for an interview. So your hearing his words, read by a voice actor due to the fact that harden was
friend to some officers. This was kept is quite as possible and it was decided. No supplementary reports would be written until absolutely needed. All records were kept by me.
in note for zimmermann learned of carries nineteen. Seventy one arrest for making harassing telephone calls to heidi pause knee
it is high. I can't remember exactly hartman start
the call with a lingerie sir. He read of how
you tried to lure heidi up the canyon, to a campground, mere cauzee reservoirs, using a threat of bodily harm to her husband. He would say:
try to call anybody
wouldn't be healthy for my husband, because he do seventeen mustang heidi it
don't carry mercy after his arrest in the canyon. She just wanted him to get some help, but that hadn't happened. He was partly. Justice
poppy zimmermann was aware of carries connection tertiary war, so he called role
city police, detective, jack bell. They began to look at the whole arc of carries behaviour
saw a clear escalation from that encounter with heidi in nineteen seventy one to where they then stood fifteen years later arising as toys
they talked about how the rapist had sometimes claimed to be a cop. Some reserves, gallo badge, happy thought they were real place.
Zimmermann road carry had been booted from the reserve after flashing his badge to get out of a ticket that will death
Where did you bone still? This differed from the official account that carry had resigned,
He had taken a job out of state, it seems likely that had been a convenient excuse way of getting carry out of the reserve without unnecessary embarrassed.
Zimmermann spent several days contacting each of the rape victims again asking it
He had received lingerie survey phone calls before the attacks several had.
one told him not only had she received the call she had. Also.
At the weber state Jim, where she taught gymnastics hours before being attacked at her home
Zimmermann found other links between carry some of the women. One recognised carries photo because he was friends with her husband,
another- was a family friend to the hartman's,
Yet another lived in the same apartment complex as one of carries, former girlfriends zimmer, connected harp and two for victims. Former ogden police, detective shane minor, told me that represented only about a quarter of the rapes on the detectives lists, they needed stronger evidence. So Zimmermann took his findings to the we were county attorney. He asked the state court for permission to put what's known as a pen register on carries phone, it would record the number of every outgoing call. The pen register became active toward the end of november nineteen. Eighty six over the next five weeks. It logged more than nineteen hundred outcome
in calls from Kerry's phone. These were placed on a computer print out. The approximately two hundred of the calls were to friends or acquaintances. These are Zimmerman's words from a report read by a voice actor. The others were picked at random, going through the phone book and picking last names with girls, first names or first name listed as initials only I did.
contact several of the people called and they had received the lingerie survey.
Zimmermann noticed. One number appeared multiple times. He called it and a woman answered
explain who he was and asked. If she had received a luxury survey call she said. No,
she knew who made them Zimmermann had in.
Certainly called carries second wife Becky. I shared a bit of her story with you. In episode, one zimmermann's
say Becky recalled carry making obscene phone calls to random women while they were married. She mention
carried out of a sector me discards
means attention because it potentially explained why the rapist had told one of the women not to worry about
getting pregnant Becky said carried been infatuated with guns and owned. Both three fifty seven
and thirty eight caliber revolvers guns. Cape
of firing the rounds used in the three unsolved murders under investigation by the salt lake city taskforce and Becky's knew how
but told Zimmermann, carry was infatuated with TED Bundy.
Yeah
I have one upon the strap and other that's Bundy's voice in a phone call.
the rapporteur in nineteen. Seventy nine deny
and he had ever killed. Anyone Becky's husband, told detectives
and carry had even made his sons sit and watch tv special about Bundy, I can say for sure,
based on the timeframe. It's possible
show was made for tv movie called the deliberate stranger ted Bundy is being played by saint elsewhere, star our cars,
There's a whole lot of psychiatrist in this country who are still trying to figure out what makes them tick too, is a complex person. You know, ogden police began to suspect the ogden city. Rapist might also have studied the work of ted
Indeed,
and sometimes I don't really try to think things through. They are willing to convenient alternative and can be an alternative to me.
Earlier in this episode, I told you about a woman, I'm calling Daniel
She was among the many women whom the organ city rapist had attacked. Ogden police had closed her case without an arrest due to a lack of weeds but detective chris Zimmermann real.
ablishn contact with Daniel again in november of eighty six about half,
you're following her assault. She told him she had put it out of her mind and tried to move on with her life Zimmermann told daniele. He needed her help. He showed her a spread of six pictures of men's faces, carry hartman's picture, sat among them, Daniele, couldn't pimps,
her attacker from those photos it had been too dark. She had been able to see well without her contacts, and he had told her not to look at him. She just couldn't be certain what he
like I've seen one of them before she had said bud midst. Nothing Zimmermann asked her to explain any little
It could help. She stated that she was a barber and she had gone to bob's sewing machine a few weeks prior to her attack to have her scissors sharpened. This again comes.
A report detective chris Zimmermann wrote in the store. There was a white male working there and another white male standing there talking to him the person who is standing. There was the person in the picture she had picked. This was carry hartman
Bob's sewing machine was the shop where carries friend and fellow former ogden police reserve officer Dave more worked. There is discussion about whether she was single were married, where she caught hair and other personal information. She gave her name and addressed to them for the scissors receipt hartman was standing right there when she gave the address and name the man who had broken into Daniels home at awoken her by whispering her name into her here. She couldn't identify the suspect by picture, but she was sure she heard his voice again. She would know him because his voice
was very distinctive care
herman had started a new job in the summer of eighty six, a few months after the attack on Daniel, he still worked, for we were state college,
during the day, but now tended bar at night at a place called the galleon
and yell and a friend went to the galleon one night in march of eighty seven, just
a year on from the night of her race as they sat and socialized sipping. Their drinks.
A man came on the intercom. It was the bartender a jew
shot through Danielle. She recognized the voice. It was the same as the man who had raped her carry hartman,
on the next episode of cold I'd, never heard surely upset before she would see
things like. How could you be with someone else?
recording your body. How come
Nobody knows that boys. I don't understand.
if you have information about the disappearance of sherry, worn. Now is the time to share it. You can
Reach me by e mail, cold at chaos, albert com or contact the Roy city police department at eight zero one, seven, seven for one zero, six, three,
I also want you to know. If you ve, experienced abuse
sexual violence you're not alone. There are trained experts ready
listen and help in the union,
it states survivors of rape and sexual assault- can connect to free resources through the rape of you
and incest national network at or a I n n dot org, if you,
or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form you can reach the national domestic violence hotline at the hotline. Dot org cold is a production of chaos.
pod and wondering in association with workhouse media cold is researched, written and hosted by me dave kali.
Audio production and sound designed by Ben tebrick, Aaron mason
sing and mastering by Ben key Michael bond miller?
imposed our main theme with additional
at this season by Alison layton brown edition.
The voices in this episode provided by John green and Kevin lurid my purse,
thanks to our editorial team, Amy Donaldson,
and race, Martin ryan, meeks, Becky, bruce cura, pheromone colleagues, however soon josh, Tilton and
external for amazon, music and wondering manner
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Transcript generated on 2023-02-28.