Welcome to the Commentary magazine Pakistanis Friday June, seventh, twenty twenty to jump up towards the other parliamentary magazine. Nor Rossman is on vacation with me, as always, executive editor, a green waldheim, I jump and senior rather Christine rose high, Christine hijack so we talk about the lid manual Miranda moment yesterday during the vote, the buster like legs commemoration of January Sixth, where roughly two hundred and fifty thousand people spoke from Statuary Hall to talk about the out their eggs currencies and the terrible time that have occurred in celebrating their capital policemen. I mean there is something you don't care if it was the worst

read to democracy in the worst day since nine eleven and we need to celebrate it. There was something really off about this. It had a kind of weird memorial accusation over done. This lack of precision active and am then candle and Manual Miranda moment in the middle of all of this serious reflection on the nature of our democracy and all of that Nancy? He is like a now. Here's led Manual Miranda when they were in the comes on the Amazon woman says you know: what's has won a country where democracy and then the king asked of Hamilton sing a song from Hamilton a lesser known, sunk hold dear theodosius. Why is this weird gear? Theodosius? Is this empathetic song in the show sung by air and were of course ends up being me,

dueling killer of Alexander Hamilton later in the shower than the show ends and out at the end of the show burst says now: I'm the villain and the narrative well such as the bureau the dilemma: the narrative of the killing Alexander Hamilton. After his vice presidency. After he killed out him, I he letty seditious conspiracy against the United States, so a song was sung sympathetically, pour sympathetic portrait of the loving father of the first genuinely seditious american politician, because here too did we not really it's still lost, then the vagaries of history. What exactly was that he was doing what he kind of recruited an army they wanted to take over part of the Louisiana purchase war Some other part of you know what was then consider the American West

and it fell party was actually arrested and then try M M, was not convicted firm but lack of evidence, but not because he was proved innocent. and so in the middle of the commemoration of January six. There was a song positive song about some You actually states seditious conspiracy against the United States, any thought it was I guess I'll just say one thing, which is that it reminded me of the absolute misreading of a cultural moment that happened when all those celebrities during lockdown did that imagine, video and then centred around. It was the sort of political version of that that was so. It's such a ten year than anti policy had to do that. I just I think it was wrong. I also have to say I did not, I didn't even realise that they were going to do in all day thing here. We watch

obviously what the president and the vice president's speech, but I had no idea that it was. It was like an Olympics, opening ceremony, style event and I die would be cool. We have to know how many Americans actually tuned in four, even part of it. I doubt it very many, but it it struck me as not being completely unserious about certain things where it should have been serious but also kind of not really. Quite. Settling on the note that so we had a very clear tone from from the president in his speech, but the rest of it was sort of a job and so in that sense it didn't really have a coherent as for ten as performance says, as production didn't have a clear thief: John as you say, to Noah. Well, you did a good job of of detailing the substance which is well and good, but I'm talkin I'm looking at the general picture here,

the hell was era musical number at a hawk yesterday, actually, which really was my overarching thought. Look there tree. like a holiday, they are turning it into a holiday, and that is that get said. You know why you were saying yesterday and I agree that your uncomfortable with The way that this was being approached even by those with whom you, you agree to a large extent about the subject, of of what happened on January sex. This is not treating it like a serious event. This is not treated like an awful point nor history, this, is fetish, rising it for an entirely different purpose. End up my conclude:. is that if they think Americans don't see through that their crazy, I mean it reeks of insincerity and production and theatre and performance. I think that's that's where

frankly point I think that's exactly right and they, of course, don't know that people Don't feel this way. It's like the problem with politicians. They don't know that Oh don't like them, because mostly people they come into contact with due examined. Then they decide the people who don't like them are being driven to dislike them because of violent propaganda being spelled out by being speeded up by George Soros or Facebook which needs to be suppressed. Rightly they they don't know that. We ve now lived through basically half a century in which the union you good opinion. politicians is has been systematically herb like over time, has downgraded and degraded itself and that in that way, People like that, get all uppity and self righteous.

Even their own backers, you get it. A woozy. Unless are we really drinking the cool they didn't really by like that's why you want to their state, on occasions like this, where than overstate you let that the power of the occasion itself should bring seventy percent of the emotional or eighty percent of the emotional force right turn go pageant with. And then the entire country is like with greater at you know, at the show at Mount Vernon, where you get to see George Washington not chopping down there, dear chopping down the cherry tree and telling his dad about it and even then, when your nine or ten years old, you well your eyes at the obviousness and then the wooden s and the falsity of what it is that you're scene.

so I don't know I mean that it went on like it wasn't just damn. It was then also you know, CNN and MSNBC, who are basically the handmaidens of this This year day, long performance are, there was another remarkable moment yesterday on tv. I bring this up, not because I if we really want to insult head crew but I dont know how else to discuss this TED crews, when at TED referred to at the perpetrator, there's of January six, this terrorists then went on Tucker Karlsson show was attacked by a car and then a based himself, an apology for having spoken, falsely or having it up and said something stupid, or something like that, of course, They were terrorists. Like I've been there, they did they weren't De Al Qaeda terrorists that fly blame into a building or anything like that, but they were, they were individual,

you know non uniform citizen staging some kind of a directive paramilitary attack on a government institution. I don't really know what level so that they also by them been charged with terrorist related charges. of them about destruction of federal property or given that that their handling or or presence on federal property in an unlucky, full sense that are actually under the rubric broader Rebecca of terrorists. Charges and the FBI is discussed them as domestic terrorist. That's clearly, though, the sort of label that's been given to everyone who has been charged meant it and they have been charge. I mean this is actually something I think the other side of the Isle tends to downplay. You know they're they're, getting the book Fernand Herman and whereas, while they so yeah they actually the idea that he should apologise for calling them. What they, in fact, have been charged with doing is very strange. Why are so many Republican scared of Tucker Karlsson? I mean I get it with his ratings, but you know when the baby

you should have gone in there and said yeah. They were terrorists. This is bad for the part, it is bad for our side why we should call call this what it is and move on from. This is bad, I didn't do that. It was very strange. I mean you know a lot of people on the right- have been discussing the crisis of masculinity over the last twenty four Thirty forty years was as unmanly public display as I've. I have ever seen I mean it is. It was a contemptible bit eat up there, all my as contemptible in its own way as the way. The TED group of course attempted to oppose trumps nomination at the convention and twenty sixteen then had to finally serve give em in ten. Have the picture taken of him enough raising for trample called his wife ugly and said his father might have been part of the assassination plot against J F K like it.

a human being, would have the right to SAM sorry, I'm not doing anything for that guy, because the way you talk about my family, it would have been tab. Crews, you know, The people reveal themselves an interesting ways, and I'm not talking about him politically. I'm I talking about his, although I think he is often a very we have handed emphasis politician, but you know if, if he, So this makes this this establishes future viability for him. Kowtowing doesn't move ever establish future viability for a politician, How telling to a tv, how Stephen a smart tea house with a lot of viewers does not establish you as somebody to be taken seriously. Fact it's much better to attack a towel. House for attacking you than it is to like suck up to them so that was pretty pretty gross moment in in outline the court

about a day in which there was a lot of performative grossness, as I think we're, as I think, we're out growled targeting, let's onto a very another weird phenomena and we talked about some. This earlier in the week or at the end of last week, what not by unless, as we were, we were doing other stuff, but there is a move on the part of the ultra hawkish covered talks to come at the subject of covered in a new way and to try to seize. I think from the right the idea that we to learn to live with covered former Biden advisers, as it said, as equal Emmanuel, the M a doctor brother of of rather than and our Emmanuel the supervision and the young and the guy who said that at dinner

Two million people die in twenty twenty Michael Sir Home put together a letter signed by couple by the people following up as they did, which they say, need to learn to live with gold. We and go on like this. Clearly, the effort to eradicate Covid is gonna, be a failure, so we need to learn to live with cope interesting like that's what Rhonda Sashes has been saying for for two years right. I just want to add Zeke Manual also set a few years ago. He wrote in a peace that human beings live too long, any hope not to be alive and seventy right, which is really seventy five do say seven years, unable as it was seventy function, but it's an interesting pre. It's an interesting, nothing to write a few years before covered. Ok, so distressing right right to the elderly? So this letter comes out

it's about how we have to learn to live with corporate ethic of that's interesting like maybe. This is part of that part and parcel of that. Didn't move where the cdc you know liberalize, has its red guidance on testing and how to figure out whether you are or not, somebody who should be isolated and how you should. I explain all that, but that's that what it is somewhat. It is effectively as it says that we need to collect data in a different way? So when we see a surge of some sort coming like all my crime, but but are we have information than Alma promise coming, which of course came upon us very fast rate care upon us Thanksgiving Weekend and pray we much in a week to ten days after that, we were in the middle of a you know, of an unprecedented surge at that moment all the levers of governments to kick in and the entire society has the lock them that, I think, is basically the logic of of

of the peace so. They use the rhetoric of learning to live with covered as a wedge into saying. We we need We need to government needs to have the perpetual power to shut the economy, an ordinary human life down if necessary, at will almost at will, so It's a pretty nervy thing. and on the one hand, it would be good, as they say if there were a modern data infrastructure to offer information on the spread of viruses real time, so that individual people can make whatever choices that they feel they need to make, but

as an outline of a national strategy defined a new normal, which is what they are saying: the united they must shift to a strategy of seeking to limit the virus by suppressing its peaks, rather than attempting to eliminate suppressed. Think it's peaks is an interesting euphemism for not perpetual the lock down so that maybe the exact kind of lockdown. That will a misery us forever. What did you do The instability of the possibility that at any given moment, we could go into lock down again and yet the Restoration itself continues with this message and Saki. Just the other day said once again by he's gonna shutter this virus like they're still using the rhetoric of we're gonna beat this we're gonna win as if that's possible, though, what it struck me fitting that peace it reminded me of of when Biden was vice his and under Barack Obama the massive effort by the by

cast cities. Other behavioral economists to do all the natural to use, choose technocratic levers of power to nudge people using what they called choice. Architecture to design choices. You have to opt out rather than a thin for retirement benefits. You have to do all these different things, basically making it easier to be what they define as a good citizens rights. actually the key, and there are a lot of the lot of people who pushed back on even the numbers, because what they left was me. Of an illusion of choice for some people, given their economic and socio economic circumstances, than a real choice that there was actually a strange kind of coercion that was baked into that system that the technocrats themselves didn't want to acknowledge, because what they were doing was enforcing behaviour. That, They themselves had long ago embraced on others who might not have heads conform, so the same thing now is that they are still

using this kind of widow. Oh, we want to live with it, so we're gonna give people options. We're gonna show them how great out how this is for the for the good work. This together and yet the mix messaging of of the things himself shows like a fish if they shut down certain parts of the country, including schools, its working Para. See we're gonna suffered, not zoom class parents if they shut down certain businesses better, that largely employ hourly workers. Those workers will suffer not the zoom class. extractive designed this rolling wave of locked and there isn't, in acknowledgement of any of the impacts of these being much more severe for people who live closer to the bone than they do and that's what's truly elite is about this technocratic, legally suggestion at will. Debated a lot on this podcast about how

much infringing of our day to day the existence. Would people tolerate in the name of lifesaving emergency measures- and you know I've tended to John agree with you that that people can will tolerate quite a lot, given the given the particular context, but open ended, ability to shut things down in the face of bread? news about a new variant. I think people as an extra actually will not tolerate, even when people who were formerly He hawkish uncovered. I think no first one note book of the credibility of that as a part, as a policy going forward makes it who won the day that the lack of credibility makes makes every doubtful as to the efficacy of of of of health experts, gender, and why they would listen to anyone. I mean that it's just not a sound approach in anyone's opinion. It's also

your apsley right. It's also a backward step for people who ve been living in places like Florida in Colorado, where they ve tried different approaches that have been effective. In terms of preserving people's right to make intervene, it choices, choose an individual risk assessments for themselves and their families versus the government telling them what the risk is amending told they must believe it and accepted with uncritically. So I mean in Florida in Colorado. We have a pretty big experiment of the last several months to year about the active harm, so this proposal, if embraced, from a top down perspective, which is what technocrats like these guys love to do would actually send those citizens into further confined to an environment where there being further controlled from Washington D C verses. but they are in now, obviously which they approve of which is living in a state where their governor has made a different choice and can be booted out of office. If, if he or she makes mistake. I mean it's kind of like that that therein, the shooting Negotiating stage of the of the denial of death pressed

as here you know like, This is all I think striving toward, however, however, as long as can take us to get there, some sort of reconciling to actually understanding We're gonna be living with with some form of covered. Without you know, the emergency measure card every every few weeks, right wealth, Oh, I mistake, as I said it was. A letter is actually three separate up ads that works or organised to be published in hand, which is very, which is very odd. the Journal of the American Medical Association and what striking is that they have different view was that some of the sort that the team of people who wrote these three different up ads, but different authors, for example, one of them the doktor David Bright, thinks that the way that vaccines talked about

bullying quality, that Biden has a bullying quality. It continues to break a vaccinated people in almost bully and vaccinated people and yet one of these other up ads, that demands vaccine mandates and says there being out. First of all, we need to constantly developing new versions of vaccines to combat new variants, but that We must have vaccine mandates as though vaccine mandates are the ultimate in bullying. So so What we have here is a is a is a critique of the body, administrations handling some of it some of it from the idea that you now baby. I've been incompetent summit, from the idea that they haven't been harsh enough and then other and whatever it is. It's like. You know that they just are doing it right and if they listen to it has served if they listen to me quality accept these are people that were listen to and what happened.

Was everything was going the way they wanted it to until the delta varying came along, and then they just defaulted to their own priors, which is going put em ass, gone start closing things down, I'm in the inner where, where they could, where there was political will or the police hunger and blue states and stuff like that to do limited block, downs and shutdowns and that whatever you, no business, business, lock, downs and new rules and new regulations- and so you have this guidance which, on the one hand, just seems, I think, ultimately, to just be a way of saying this. Some going. The way we wanted to have so years different, contradictory pieces of advice summit I think that there should be vaccine mandates. Others think that there should be new oral therapies we,

to distribute em, maybe five masks to everybody in the country better in our stuff, like that, and so in the end, is yet another example of public health people. Spelling out in spelling out and not owning up to the fact but they're changing their ideas if they're changing their ideas, because because the facts I've changed then maybe they were wrong before to advocate Ex wires ie. But that's not what happens here. You know, that's not that I need them to make a public apology or something like that, but you d say things with exactly the same tone of authority that that that shift, the emphasis, in the same tone that they used when they work the leading expostulated of the previous emphasis that they now say should be in our should be thrown away and there.

for years ears, another interesting thing in one, these pieces, which is that we need a vaccine mandates and a digital verification system. Provocation, so called vaccine passports because quote relying on unforgeable paper cards is set the ball in the twenty first century, so yeah, so in New York we have a digital passport. You could call it it's Excelsior Party them in its aid goes on your because on your phone, so you can you can it's very easy to get at the back of the things you but your data. It finds you in a database and gave it to you. This bar code that unites us, is that your vaccinated? but it is some voluntary right and what are they talking so. This whole thing now is the paper card could be forged. So, who could be walking around as a non vaccinated person. But taking your brothers

the card and using it- and you know what that's just not acceptable. Their voting, in which case you should have to show idea at all. That's fine but like you, must walk around with the digital market on your former are to get anywhere. We unto the girl, but I mean this is how We talk about the american public. We have and make sure that their not forging they're, not using a forged tart on paper as well, It also ignores the very understandable reluctance of people to be to be part of a digital database. Today a very healthy reluctance. I might add that Americans are almost unique in the in the Bin western countries in embracing and protecting and should continue to be as extreme and crazy It sometimes sounds. I will say a lot of these guys at the same guys who were on the we have to make every medical record an electronic record,

about ten years ago, you know during all the during all the healthcare stuff and all we have to come into the next century, with our medical records and what they're all kinds of uninjured, the consequences when you embrace these kinds of top down technocratic solutions, the one that happened when medical records and talk to any doktor they'll tell you is that you go for doctors. Does it and the doktor will spend as much I'm staring at more time staring at a screen entering codes? Doing all these things to make sure the record is fine, because that's the paper trail right that shows that he or she did when he spoke to unless I'm looking at the patient. Talking to the patient, doing the things that actually from a patient's perspective are far more. Valuable and show far more commitment to the care, so there are, then again, none of this is done with any sort of purposeful negative in and it's just that this is what happens when you create these massive systems that don't undertake a particularly dim view of human. nature, as you say, John, but also make no room for human error, because that's actually, where the problems of the system that lead to

at last. It leads paranoia village, conspiracy, theory that it happens there and they don't even addressed that possibility. It's just. I will deal with the crazy by forcing everyone to have this. This think this passport on their phone, that's a great idea where it will hear here's the game here is the final give away. This is. This is one of the three pieces which is the national strategy that Zeke Emmanuel Michael asked her home and Celine counter. Okay, so so it has various categories: okay, redefining the appropriate match, map national risk level. The private risk threshold should reflect He quickly DES hospitalizations up community prevalence of vital viral respiratory illnesses during high severity years. Such as twenty seventeen. Twenty eighteen that European,

only forty one million symptomatic estivant Wenzel, seven hundred and ten thousand hospitalizations and fifty two thousand desk, in addition to CDC estimates of each year, Rsv leads to more than two hundred and thirty five thousand hospitalizations and fifteen thousand desk in the United States the? U S is far from these thresholds, the seas. He reported, the? U S, experience nine hundred thousand covered nineteen cases, fifty thousand rationalization and more than seven thousand deaths, so this so. We need the peak. We grant smell I bring this up only to say that you can see how we could have here regulatory creep in which we have these risk assessments for covered that suddenly start becoming worse assessments for flu or for r AMP D. You know To which which which had kids very hard or can hit, gets very art

suddenly we're not just gonna, have a protocol according to which we may need to shut down because of covered. We can have a program. Protocol where we need shut down because of the full and not the spanish, not the spanish influenza, but the flu and a bad flew you so That's one thing where this then becomes something that can be used in other cases as a means of other forms of top down interference with the ordinary workers, american life and then the second part is we building public health. So that's where you get the new data infrastructure and to fix a new, a permanent pub health implementation workforce that, as the flexibility of urge capacity to manage persistent problems while simultaneously responding to emergencies, a new permanent public health implementation work

a system of community public health workers, could augment to healthcare still by testing, vaccinating precise scope to another respiratory infections and other respiratory infections, during adherence to ongoing treatment for tuberculosis, HIV, diabetes and other chronic conditions? So guess what we have here I'm from the government and I'm here to help not gonna manoeuvres and have our view. Yes, hundreds of thousands of new federal employees working under the auspices of eight now possibly faintly compromised profession, the public eye professional, and then they get to that, and that's where will endless party the conversation is this. central to rebuild trust in public health institutions and a belief in collective action and serve as a public house. That's the I know, element of their thing: public health, it's just

must have the trust rebuilt in them, as must a belief and collective action and serve of public health. But why welcome you These you higher levels of trusting reciprocity, such as Denmark, have experienced lower rates of hospitalization death from covered nineteen, are we really now going to go into this conversation that covered nineteen as a result of of of an american public, not having the appropriate level of trust and collective action and public health the last two years, so what they. Actually want is a new public health bureaucracy, permanent permanently that obviously federal and a propaganda campaign to raise, but the image of the public health bureaucracy that the public health opera that exists now itself has common, mais and harmed,

want to claim it's because of this information. They want to claim it's because people want to live or them. That's all well and good, but the is where we get to what the real purpose of this is. The real purpose of this is to give them more power in a different way in a way that gives them and not politicians or whether you want to call it control over them, because now this could just become part of the public health you're everywhere, and then they all work for this cause, which is to further, he addressed the public health and am and collective action all of same people who are behind this date? When they're, not, you know, figuring out these schemes they are vigilantly on the watch for populist threats against democracy with one hand they are feeding this populism.

Like nobody's business? Would schemes like this and then when they are worried about about a populist backlash it. So it's amazing and it's enough to I'd be crazy and that's why you might want to consider head space heads basis mindful is up, ok and you download it. He gets it because if you conference feels, like your mind, doesn't have an off sweatshirt attention is constantly travelling through your body That's your stress, anxiety, harms reminded body and the sleeplessness that comes with it, harms your mind and body. So you can make small changes to your daily routine, that will have a an influence on your mental health and wellbeing starting or year with head space, so its scientific prove it to help. You manage your feelings in mental health that recent study proved in just two weeks. Had space can reduce your stress by fourteen percent

It's you download the heads base up and trades minds once routine to takes just a few minutes a day to change a relationship of stress means idea to start feeling better make twenty two until the EU incorporate mind for censure daily life and change a mental health problem in a positive way. However, your feeling we can try had space it heads they start comes less commentary and get one month free use of their entire might. Once library this is the best head space offer available so that a head space start coms, less commentary today had space dot com, slash commentary, we have jobs numbers in their, not good. I'm gonna say that every month exceptional a month in the last six. The job come in and have it look good and then the next month there revise sharply upward. So it is very interesting.

Phenomenon, and so you know we shouldn't be making large macro economic judgments based on these now There is, but a by guess. You notice that they had said that there would be that the expertise. Will there be about four hundred? What was the number four hundred twenty two thousand was the estimation, and, and The reality is a hundred, ninety nine thousand right. So so the so we have a, we are falling short of the estimation by more than half and the answer sustained, because this december- and you know like even in good times, people aren't hiring or changing jobs or whatever, usually around you know, from December twentieth, to two new year's day, like vast numbers of people who had taken, Asia merit starting work on the on the twenties. excellent December unless they work for Scrooge. You know so I you know, I don't know that so that you know

Sometimes these numbers have sees no reason stocks press them and now we're getting this it's because of Alma Kron. But again If you know much about Micron they're, the brig surgeon, Imma kind of happened during the Christmas holidays, and so, as I say, not exactly the biggest time before for hiring, at once. A year we also have the jobless rate plunging under four percent, even though job creation isn't isn't, isn't great, but Christine you have a view of it You haven't you serve maiden. observation that dumb What's not happening is job creation. Right right I mean what what happening. It is a lot of jobs that went empty during the pandemic are just being. People are trickling back into those jobs, but a healthy economy depends on new ones being created in its it's interesting to hear how, by the vitamins

train is massaging these numbers every time they come out to make its I'll look, the most amazing job jobs numbers ever, but they can't really say growth because growth implies new industries, new innovation, more booming economy. I was, it was intriguing to read. Some of the excerpts from the new times did a couple of focus groups about with republican and democratic motors, and while the democratic voters talking a lot about it. Oh democracy is doomed. It's terrible. The Republicans were saying things like once again. It's costing fifty bucks to fill up my truck, and I that also points to the language. by demonstration is trying to use which is sort of boosters fish. But again this speaks to our long standing conversations about inflation in some of the other issues the economy, which is a people, don't feel boost Irish about it and that's also a problem. So, if you're looking at this the beginning of this new year, I think a lot of people were hopeful that

but the mild disavow Micron. We might have another little dip that that we get right back on track and it doesn't feel that way. Look schools or closing again, businesses are still struggling. Restaurant. The restaurant industry, in particular in this country, continues to barely hang on by a thread. It's it's just feels like inertia. And that general mood just like the general malaise of a sort of nineteen. Seventy high gas prices, inflationary crime, addled society. That also has an effect, those that that sense of not moving forward not getting better. That's gonna, hurt the economy down the line as well so yeah. I think he's there trying to put a spin on his every person does with these sorts of numbers that this has been a consistently bad economy for this president, and I think it's reflect in his standing in public opinion polls, which I think right now, his averages lower than tromp means doing pretty

Maybe he's he's around forty two forty three percent, which is like where to actually, interestingly enough, if you want to feel positively about violence, chances in the future the eleven Obama was riding members like that too went once once the choice became clear and he we now we moved away from the crises of two thousand in two thousand and ten and the Supreme Court did not find the current constitutional. He battled back up to around fifty percent. That's got fifty one percent of the vote in twenty twelve. So these things are not there, they're not static and all by now do. Is that perform better than that pal. I mean. That's really. The issue here is see Yes, it's like yeah it is. This is ninety. Maybe two and were

You know that the harsh medicine to cure the stagflation problem was still going through the american system and causing high rates of unemployment and unpleasant entered closure of family farms and all kinds of things like that in the end and the and the medicine the the cure hadn't kicked him. There was the You know like chemo, but that the term have been taken for the better then you could say: ok, we'll, just as we have no choice but to wait this out, and then you know that the term and then the turn came. I mean like bye, bye, bye, the first quarter of nineteen eighty four, the economy grew by nine percent. You know some like that, and you know by the time Brigham Daily Election nineteen for nine Reagan, one fifty nine percent of the vote.

Doubling down on democracy, is doomed argument because running next week, flying down to Georgia to give his Jim Crow Tupac point. No pardon my friendship. Shit rubbish that he was doing you know a year ago, like he's gonna, go down there and say unless we federalized local elections. elections, we're gonna in three institution, Chrome! He's! That's not a positive message. It really Energizes is progressive flank and they love it, but he's also lying to them because, as we have discussed many times over, there's no way, this thing is gonna passed. So he's feeding a very small radicalized group of his own parties base while doing nothing. To tell the average American and the average moderate, who doesn't like Trump and is still trying to give bind the benefit of the doubt. How are things gonna get better in this country. What are you doing to make things work better with the blue soup? but This'Ll. Make leads me to believe that you know you yesterday, when, when we were sort of assessing de the political but political prodigy of of contained, going to say look

I'm gonna keep trouble from you at all costs. That is my primary goal that that might have been. You're saying that. Well that could work. That's it that's an achievable message and then say that one that could prove successful, maybe it's not. In the face of these problems as well, where I was going with my but Reagan analogy was that, even though what Reagan did and vulgar Paul Volcker the head of the federal it hadn't really been done before they put in What they did was so systematic and it was either going to show results are wasn't gonna show results, the combination of choking off inflation and dam and stimulative supply side tax cutting was either going to work I wasn't going to work and it would become clear right there is no systematic anything going on here.

There's. No, it's not like buying can say well once the infrastructure bill kicks in the economy is going to turn around there there. There is no sort of grand design and back better, which is not going to pass whatever it is now he was reduced to say it really wouldn't cost as much as they say. It's gonna cost that will pay for itself, but not that it's going led me of that they'll say at they'll say whenever they want to say that a given time, but there wasn't there's nothing in it, the purpose of which is to look back. You know Eighteen months now and say: oh, my god, The economy is so much better and people are so much better off the main than they were in out than they were just what we started were really

going to be on a glide path to the future. That is what happened with Clinton again, not to keep going to these historical analogies but b by the time one thousand nine hundred and ninety six rolled around there was again and hugely explosive quarter of economic growth because is of the limitations on democratic ambitions in ninety ninety five, due to them I welcome the take over of the House and Senate, which meant that day there there of their spending goals and soak things couldn't be achieved, and then there was this. He now basically the first the wave of the internet boom in our concern. That did minimum know, but was then called them. we'll both the idle mar the evil MIKE. I remember and, as you know, these women incredible evaluation, searches for it, companies and things like that, and there was this big, and so he had this explosive growth that that that that he rode to

when the election that might be sex again. Maybe something like that can happen without maybe maybe a republican victory in him in the house, and twenty twenty two will help it, because it will finally be the brake against his ludicrous l b, day ambitions and he will be able to pursue those and maybe they'll, be lots of growth gives the pandemic really will be over, and then people will feel better and that will help it, but I'm just saying he has no plan. There is nothing in the Biden, behaviour over the last year build a better. wasn't a sort of purity economy was to fix America morally, and you know it worse to restore the centrality of government to all all interactions in the United States, but that, but it's interesting because the Sir John Harris is written this peace and political, which kind of funny, because he basically says data. We keep hearing, particularly from Democrats, that we're in this moment of potential,

civil war were teetering on the edge of absolute didn't fracturing of the nation democracies, doomed, etc, etc. He's fix. Another take is like what this is. Civil wars like the Seinfeld of civil worth is really about. Nothing is about the fact that both sides, fires are contemptuous of each other, but the end of issues that fractured this nation in the past, the sort of the stuff that went on you're, obviously slavery this of war, but but even what deferment of the nineteen sixties We are not there yet, and so, but there is a sin: range investment that this this admitted trade has. It goes beyond what seemed self is L B, J or after it's a kind of idea that, like he's here, this great healer. That's good that did, if you just embrace with the Democratic Party, tells you democracy should be. If you just act like the kind of good responsible citizens, the technocratic democratically tells you you should be, then our country be healed, and that, I think, is why we see both from his officials about covered under the outburst about well, you know,

you back, say, you're looking at a holiday of death and destruction of doom come out because the frustrate the generally dozen resonate in the end there I mean everything has able you went to, maybe maybe won't be enough not to be Trump but ultimately one reason it may be enough. Is that as long as you said, like trumps, we Matt, said Conall Yes, I like Trump, is not a full participants, and then the national debate, I mean he is sort of an object of contemplation discussion focused on all that, but you know he's off social media. He doesn't have the discipline to do to do it. Otherwise bright, really kind of establish his own method of

communication that he could have and that could have created a whole new. You know he could be on Fox five days a week. You know if you wanted to get on the phone, fox and friends, but where you between twenty four two points out is he's not doing that once he is back then he is then there is a contrast we'll have to them. He will talk about everything every day. Maybe they'll be good for maybe it'll remind people enough people that that maybe they blame day decided too harshly, because you know look at me. Look at the mess Biden has made of things about them. You know that but also require a change in tone, the only change until we ve seen from that. It is interesting that I think, is a thing where he said we are proud of the vital proud of the vaccines we need not to let them claim vaccines. That are thing and with the greatest thing we bid and were great and were fantastic and then

forbearing. From from having a press conference yesterday, I'm on January, six, which I think was a wise move, because all all she didn't stoke the fire and when he did with his statement, but nobody paid attention to the statement. If we had had a Prescott if he really had a serious, significant press conference which you now Maggie Haber men would have attended like it's not like that that the General Effort which is to make sure that no one can hear his disinformation or someone at that away. The the then to impossible to ignore and He decided to go silent, which is like that. You know like those moments when the ass a rule during political conventions. Was he let them have that they got? four days. Do let them have the four days: don't try to counter programme against it. We have our. Four days they have therefore days it's all gonna, be,

evanescent anyway. That near out, don't don't play the fighting game. We now let them say what I have to say right and then at the people got too impatient, because this also mean all and stop doing that and started fight. You know like doing whatever they could get in on the story of the other parties, Balkan Convention and its kind of stupid, because it makes it lowers the conversation that makes them that did doesn't do any good, really and trumps talking a jailer. Six wouldn't have done him any good, but I go back to AIDS extremely wise prediction when he, when Trump first booted offered social media, which is it that was the best thing that ever happened to tromp, because you don't see him in our faces and in our ears and on our Airways every day, and it leads to, I think, exactly the question you posed out, which is that if he does come back, people Billy, maybe maybe we they'll have to re, learn what he Billy is like, if he's given that air time, but if he's smart you'll never get back on that stuff

it was also the worst thing to happen to Democrats by the way, but the Bible numbers would look better if if the country was the day in and day out reminded of what of what Trump meant without you know from beyond the horses mouth so to speak right That's why I say. If we actually does one in twenty twenty four it is the rival he'll, be the rival. You know I mean what he ought to do is is be binding in twenty twenty right say ass to sit in the Bush. Picket spent and stay in the basement, and then let the leaden led the election be about Biden by bad. You know day, that's his! That's not! Why You would do it anyway, so it would be him

You know, and and and people would then be be be reminded unless he changes and as I say, there is little hints of Vienna that, like he's testing a change a bit, but you know people don't really change. Although you know, good, good, meds. You never know my palm pale ass. Ninety pounds- this is getting lot of attention. I don't know why, but he does look different. Who words gastric sleeve, see that's by suspicion and he's getting all these every about exercise, a diet, somebody I had I had last. I had lap and surgery twelve years ago. It had a great effect on me now nobody loses a hundred pounds in six months without having gastric will end. gastric sleeve as the new thing you do not know, but whatever he I gastric sleeve,

he's not telling anybody that we had a gastric sleeve that stupid, because it would actually be helpful to people to know that it has this kind of dramatic effect the Ladys all I was like a passion and yours they come back so rested, might really rested or at any rate Kay by the way, is it's a disk, as you have a surgical intervention doesn't mean I hit it. Does now I'll be out in your life has changed anyway, so if he can, Tax means, I didn't know gas which leave out while apologize but anyway, and other by other people who were a hundred pounds. Overweight should do it too. It's really a fantastic that really a fantastic thing and probably beer saves guided, could save my life, but it did it had it. It was a much less. The much different Dry had than he had and in some ways much less effective over time, but nonetheless has had very puzzled.

Consequences itself with that that personal revelation I wish you all a very happy a weekend. Am there will be back on Monday with some guests next week as no it continues his vacation? I think we're gonna have value, followed them with us on Monday. So until then, for Christine enable John put words, keep the camel burning.