Along with a reflection on the current state of discourse around the national move toward reopening society, the COMMENTARY podcast discusses the ongoing assaults on the old orders. Abroad, China has abandoned its traditional caution and is testing its parameters, aggressively, in every direction. At home, domestic violence has erupted over the arrest-related killing of George Floyd. Where does it all end?
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily Podcast today's Thursday may twenty eight twenty twenty. I am John PATH towards the editor of commentary with me, as always, senior a green, waldheim Hygiene, senior render Christine Rosen High Christine an associate editor nor Rossman High Miller. I John
so with the news that we finally pass the horrible hundred thousand deaths from Covet Mark, I noted that the the front web page of the New York Times said the United States has the most a photographer. These in the world than the most cases of of covered in the world. Stead said flatly as though this were you know an unassailable fact, and it cannot be true. I know that China claims that they ve had three thousand dead from we have a hundred thousand. Does anybody really believe that China at the centre of the virus. Where the virus came from a red, a place where they they, the guy lock down a hundred million people. Quarantine. Two hundred million people effectively enough the geographical area to keep
the disease from spreading that they did that? Because a couple hundred people had died by that point? It's not even remotely conceivable and yet bye, bye, playing this game of using stats from our country, which, you know unassailable against stats from China and IRAN, which are obviously wildly manipulable that we are. We have now placed us. We have made ourselves some kind of a disease locus which is not a static. We deserve. We do not deserve to be thought of as the as the corona virus country, it's guy onions, kind of remarkable cuz. I was perusing the Wall Street Journal. Daily run down of a worldwide cases and had in South Korea had seventy nine pollutant,
the cases on Thursday four grand total of eleven thousand in India reported sixty five hundred new cases and China report in precisely to new cases, both of which were imported from overseas may not work. I was his eight there's, there's also a domestic impact on this sort of you, no memory holding in an acceptance and of what China is saying for numbers, and that's that there is an ongoing debate and the progressive left about how much better a socialist system would with would solve these pandemic crises. Right like there's more this more efficiency it. It would be much better, and I mean I think it's ok to be disappointed without the Trump administration is handled, this particular pandemic, but there's a sort, long term argument that's being made on the left about how we should, in the future structure, our government and big, do
look to China as a model for some of this, which again is, is actually horrifying. Given we know for a fact that China has been cooking its books on Anderson and case rates from the beginning and misleading, not just its own people, but the World Health Organization right, while wild China has been misled. Thus, there have been countless articles in places like the time saying what we can learn, what China has to teach us about the approach to the pandemic: yes state they downplayed. First, yes, they tried to cover some things up at first, but then they they took drastic action. We can learn a lot from their measures that have a thing I mean welding people into their homes, infuriating potemkin, hospitals that literally did not work and could not be used to work for a glittering headlines in the west, and it's over I mean it's all very soviet like this- is that the states very reminiscent of nineteen thirty's heard big magnesia gorse projects that didn't actually work but were really in the enthralled western observed
yeah. So what about you know- and the other thing of course, is that using this benchmark, as as the as the horrible tragic number and all of that, what we, So we have is a a this happening at the moment when we are seeing a rapid decline in the death toll and in the in ten days and in the new cases, numbers like with a ten percent decline and in the absolute number of new cases pretty much over the last fourteen days and an almost fifty percent decline in the death toll. You know from fourteen days ago, so in full, act. All the signs are that America is through the worst of this, not and if we wanted
dwell on the horror. That's fine! That's it! You know that's a kind of choice, but it has been twelve weeks of lockdown. Pretty much you know from you know, for better or for worse, are more extreme, were less extreme crossed the country with all the attendant horrors of that not only the DAS, but the unemployment numbers in the economic slow down? And all of that and that in fact, folk? sing on this grim statistic. Overall statistic: a misreading of the mood that I think
We should be aimed at the moment about how things are going forward. I also think it too miss reading of what happened here and which is not to say that things went well at all, but the key the wrong number has to do with that. America's an enormous country. We didn't handle things that well for sure and New York City at its own problems and is very densely packed bladed sitting and that's where the entire region proves the huge presented the cases. But throughout this the? U S has had a lower fatality rate per capita Van France, ITALY, Spain, you Kay Sweden, of course, Belgium, so and significantly lower fate, fatality Bible it. So we so I just something to remember. While, while were beating ourselves up for for the d
genuine horror that that we ve gone through here, but, but I don't like round already what I'd like to introduce my grievance of the day which a new segment grieving magazine, but doesn't need a snake subsided acres and gave an aim of you guys think about the YAP. You guys think about agreements of your group. The day will get back to you will take out. My pandering MIKE area the day is worth the Atlantic's Amanda. Mall My! What am I phase publisher yesterday in the Atlantic, obviously entitled in what is safe to do the sun. What can we do now guide to saying safe this summer and didn't actually give you much guidance at all It did emerge and you know theorize a lot in one of the paragraphs. She noted many, a man dickens had begun to calcified at the extremes, believing staying at home for twenty four hours a day on end is morally defensible or that refusing to wear a mascot grocery store is essentially an expression of personal freedom,
six changing the rules, don't necessarily mean that the government or scientists were lying to you before far more likely is that the rules have shifted to what's to reflect what we ve learned about this rapidly evolving crisis like to reintroduce her mid April essay titled. Georgia's specimens in human sacrifice the debate about to find out how many people need to lose their lives to shore up the economy. Now, writers, sincerity responsible for their heads or sub heads. But she also wrote in that peace quote: Georgians are now largely unwilling, canaries in an invisible coal mines, to find out just how many individuals need to lose their job or lose their life for a state to work through a play, There was no confrontation of her terminally. Flawed assumptions in April in this thing
it was simply memory hold and she's. Now lecturing us on our own ideological recalcitrance, and I found it rather of noxious. Also, I am, I think, what she's describing is really true at this point. At this point, most of the surf, formerly He or kind of you know, leaning pro lockdown people. I know recognise that that were at the stage where we need where, where there should be some gradual opening and most pro opening folks are certainly gonna where are the mask and keep social distance, so I thought. I think that there is actually there there has been this serve very organic evolution towards
meeting in it somewhere in the middle, despite everything that happens on twitter and everyone, galleons very modest reopening states couldn't be defended at the time, based on the data that was, we were all privy to at the time they were defended and people defended them and they turned out to be correct. It's no ice, but the first two weeks of this thing examined in just about every ideological assumption I had and interrogating imprint, so I feel perfectly qualified to say you know you should probably go back at you. Look at your own writing and think about what you will do your wrong, while eight one one good sign think. It is a little glimmer of hope is that we are seeing more immediate, still a trickle, but it might become a flood more stories along the lines of wire, all the governors that were most her protein in their lockdown requirements personally, not following them. So if you ve been following stuff in the UK, you know there's stamina, Cummings is aid to Boris Johnson during the lockdown was found to have left London and gone visit, his mother for his birth,
in this created this huge controversy in an bourses standing behind him in and the hypocrisy the angle. Is fire has finally come to the? U S Gretchen Whittemore, I think, has been called out appropriately for forwards or of saying one thing and doing another to me, is a hopeful sign of people's willingness to see then their ideological stance on a lot of these issues and to think more practically consumer can wait a minute if, if they were keeping us in our homes and preventing us from going to the garden centre to plants and flowers, but personally sending their own assistants out to go shopping for them are letting their husbands boat around a memorial day. These things matter too odors, and they should so. I actually see that is a hopeful sign that more and more people are talking about this in our friends at the free beacon at a great story about this. If anybody wants to sort of get the Andrew styles did a sort of a list of all the governors. Hypocrisy across the country either gets very difficult to live through a moment like this with
out that real sense that part the politicians in this at this moment really more than anybody else have to be Caesar's wife. That is they into bear some of the burden that day that they are involved in placing on on other people. They need to be pure. Then everybody This is one of the reasons that people are outraged by the fact that trumpet, where a mask and stuff like that, even though I think it's very understandable, even even the notion that Trump has that he shouldn't where mask as it would make him look weak or something like that. You can make fun of that. You can say it. You know it some get out who who who judges, man Those urban heat he's he's onto something there. You can't dismiss that much but You would have to go back and condemn Kennedy and Roosevelt for doing rise same thing right, but we all I'm saying is that there is a real
it's it's at these moments that the complex politics of being a representative come into play in a way that politicians themselves often dont. Really I totally don't want them to which is. It's one thing to when you when there is a burden on the people, you are supposed to bear that burden along with The people so that you know a nineteen eighty there was a whole complicated political dance with Jim
Carter doing what was called the rose garden strategy. That is, he wasn't going to go out and campaign like a normal person for re election, because the country was in crisis. There was the hostage crisis there was. There was an oil shock. There was this: there was that there was the other thing and he wasn't just going to go run and have rallies, and things like that. That was also thought be like a cat, potentially a canny political strategy, because that's how he could maximize the idea that he was the president Howard, I was trying to be serious about all this You can see what what that's about it. You can write a really. Data from the dominant coming story, Domino Cummings, is essentially Carl Rove, you know like on steroids. He is, he was the key strategist behind brags it he is, was the key strategist behind this massive boy
Johnson victory in the election last year and if anybody he's very populist, very anti establishment. All of that, if any body should have understood that he could not
Do at what he wanted to do at will now that he was, you know, an important national player in the british government. It should have been him, but you know people just want to do what they want to do and and and the reckoning is going to be very brutal. I think- and I think you know that is an important aspect of this going forward as a kind of lesson righteous don't inflict cuz. This is what the story of the next couple years is going to be. Don't think you can go and flick, pain on people and then walk away.
Like it doesnt effect. You well, and we ve talked about this in a couple, different contacts with regard to lock down and easing at the lockdown, but I know from friends who were trying to figure out an and does was worth school age, children. Her are gonna, be doing this all summer and trying to figure out what the school years can look like next year, for example, and this ties in both to the peace that no was talking about, which is making the rounds among some of my friends. You are I'm not on Facebook, but many my are these. These sort of parent discussion groups are passing around articles like Amanda Malls, saying how many people have to die for us it is it really worth it and that there is still a kind of their the hungering in place. Mentality is still present and a lot of them site. You note not not exactly fearmongering articles, but that the fear that the law,
it is who they ve entrusted for the last three months and listen to? Can be relied upon and now they really are on their own and dies, we're fear, motivate them and help. It leads to. I think, extreme decisionmaking, that's funny, because them he's using a are jumping point here on this, the fearmongering Georgia article from April It would be more relevant than horrible. Today in when it comes to schools, because she does talked about the fact that but he has any real idea or evidence of a significant risk of exposure in schools where he has an exist and the fact of the matter is that this thing has been observed in a lot of countries, including this one where there was no precautions being taken from
many weeks on end, and we have almost no evidence of mass transmission in school sex and the people who were most eager to see the lockdown in schools continue, are the people who have the luxury of still having a paycheck or a spouse who, as a paycheck, that keeps them out of financial ruin, even if they have to school their kids at home, remotely home school wherever they choose to do in that. That classified, as is significant, and I think, should become the focused point of a lot of these discussions about how to reopen schools in the fall of others, a funny aspects of a sort. Of course, to be as as as we're talking that one of the great apis centres of the culture war over the last twenty five years has been what might be called- the Warm SAM Divide Right- the working out of the home and the stay at home, moms right the bombs or don't work who Work, the home in the moms who stay home and end the thus stayed home moms are often accused us.
Antimony about thinking that their better parents than the than the mom's who work at home, but simultaneously the state. Our moms feel like there their role is belittled there. There's there, Sir risk to the largest society in raising the next generation of citizen Ree is is belittle. In favour of the notion that all women should work- and you know it- and this is a that's a bigger service to the good workings of humanity, and I here you have a kind of thing where the stayed home moms, maybe now get away up, because the ideas the day. You know they know how to be home with kids and you dont and Europe,
you're doing a sitting around whining, well they're doing the hard work of raising the next generation, Sis and- and you know what, if the schooling, if you can't go to school, they'll they'll, make it work. Maybe you can't make it work as your you. You think your job is so important in your life, some well. This is really showing you what's really important in life. Yeah right moms have someone else's income to rely on which is not the case. In many many family society than that started divided that the family, both parents work and they need to work in order to afford to live, and that's where I mean I don't know if employers are gonna, be able to give flexibility to working.
Parents who, even if you have these a b schedule for kids, go some days and not others, and maybe you on week or nah, sleep with a lot of school districts are talking about. You had that in for that to work. You have to have two parents whose employers will be that flexible with that, and that just seems to me to be unlikely to be consistent. The parents, are to be able to rely on, but I very rights that is saying something has been interested in and you know what they have then bash, particularly by feminists, for so long that I kind of will give em a few months reality and then enough. If you know what one of the interesting Its associated will never be the same, like people really want to work at home so that work at home. Will you know it's one thing if your facebook and you are one of the world's most successful companies with you now Your entire work is based on a screen and all
how to say you can stay at home forever right stores. A lot of people can't do this. Oh man, among other things, one of the jokes about this. Is this notion that somehow people don't need work workers don't need to be monitored to make sure that are working? You know this there's a kind of fantasy abroad because sector of the economy is now you know, serve entirely screen based and they are the ones who do a lot of discussions and good control out of the discussions both in I forms and in the media, and all of that and so There are a whole lot of places at most places. I imagine where worry work where the boss, particularly if it's a small business, is gonna wanna, see that you're doing your job.
Is it going to be so happy with the notion that everyone's at home, with their kids, you know also teaching their kids like they also there? They they mean productivity. They don't have incredible amounts of like lots of workers. Who are you note, so you have to have a larger workforce than they might need, so people can cover it out cut they can cut people slack or whatever that Facebook can make these rules that Work at home forever doesn't mean that you know my hair salon. Can it doesn't mean that a better, a twelve person business, They are fulfilling your making t shirts and you have to send them out from your from your way where AUS can do that and there's that there's an absurdity to this conversation about it, sort like put the posts, nine eleven will
ever will never tell jokes again or irony is dead, or you know what you know it's like: where did this come from or have a run on gelatin. What it's more like is the Post nine eleven conversation about commercial real estate and how it was unthinkable for anyone to occupy an office space above the fortieth floor ever again that was silly at the time was silly. It's silly now to think that just about every service industry is either going to have to maintain financially unsustainable practices. Or they're going to impose on you, the Stena. You have to wear a plastic condom over your whole body in order to just patronize these places. All of that is crazy. None of it is feasible and nobody's gonna be tolerant of it in a week,
I'm talking about this in the air by relevant, at the other cases, by ABC Nbc, a p m in a worse e Paul. That showed, with the exception of I think I forget what the exception ones out for no movie theater, smooth theatres and big concerts and big venue that's worth. A majority is favour going out and patronising restaurants and going to gems and travelling again in getting a hair cut to the tune of seven ten people are really is scared of the arts, environment, as I think the media suggests they are, will look if you look at it this way. Let's let us take the stadium, orb. F, let you know the stadium thing. Here's the here's, the interesting and and the problem? They will be able to have football games and baseball games, and
people and state that this is a misunderstanding, that this will be able to happen questions whether outside now. But the question is whether it can happen in a way that will mean that the teams in question can survive and not go bankrupt. By which I mean you have a stadium that is built for forty five thousand fans right where people set in rows of seats next to each other, You can create social distancing in a circumstance like that, so that their only fifteen thousand people in the stadium you take out seats in between you. You know you stagger things serve like planes where you can easily ree Jake.
You're a plane so that everybody is socially distance like business class and first class are like that now questions, whether it can be done in a way that is affordable and whether or not a team. You know if you're the, if you're the New York Yankees, maybe they that's a bad example. If you're one of these teams, like the Florida Marlins or something like that and actually attendance is crucial to your business model and you need to cut the number of people who come to the stadium by half or more in order to fit in with this new protocol, which may be won't last forever.
About at least one. You can go out of business and they're all not on consequences for sports, apparently baseball's, maybe they're not coming back this year because of labour negotiations negotiations going on between labour management that are well, but you know, like part, you know what you're but their falling apart for good and again this. This actually goes to an interesting aspect of what I was just talking about, which is baseball ito football. Can they can play football without ever having a crowd and the stadium? Football is based on tv contracts, massive multi billion dollar TB contracts, which are
which are you know that the loot is is, is a sort of that everybody gets it their share and its fine and that the crowds, your gravy baseball doesnt, have those contracts. So teams need two to three to four million attendees to make to pay the contracts of their pain, and so there is. There are sometimes like the Yankees that are fine at that. There are some things like I don't know. You know again like the Marlins lens someone like that. That really aren't fine, and so they are trying to go to the players and say not only Did you only be paid Pro raided that a say now we're only going to pay you per game based on your contract is obviously we're going to have half the number of games, and we can pay you for the full hundred six. The game season. The way we would otherwise, but you should
oh take pay, cuts to help us get through this and the players like nothing, do it like. I'm sorry like, and I know we will, we will accept pro rata pay, but we're not. These are contractually negotiated things in your, not we're not gonna unit utterly have you renegotiate contracts and for some teams, that's fine and for other teens like for the First time, in the first time in like forty fifty sixty years, a baseball t owning a baseball team is going to be a net liability for the owner and allow these places. You have businessmen who decided to buy team, there billionaires may laid aside the biting they always wanted to own a team and never saw. The moment, the possibility that there would be a thing where They needed the cash flow in order to keep the team solvent and that they don't actually have enough money right in your own pocket to cover a years worth of expenses. On a two hundred and fifty million dollar payroll,
I need, but the emu, the economic viability of of having half filled stadiums, or you know the problems that it is a temporary consideration, though it's it's about getting through a season of this, I mean in no way or wheat or re talking about a open, ended future in which were not going to have pack stadiums?
we're on our hearing. I only got articles now in Washington Post about how, even when there's a vaccine, this is gonna, be with us forever and where they take the vaccine. There's gonna be out, it's gonna be rolling outbreaks, and this is just life now. Something interesting case study this summer will beat. Disneyworld was just announce it it's gonna reopened in July, and it's going to require face masks which, of course, I assume it's gonna provide for people who don't want to wear their own, and I think in fact, some of the sum of the Safety Protocol Theatre, we're going to see all these restaurants doing will last throughout the summer, but the will- and if you ve watched any serve, look ass. If you, local news coverage of salons reopening in various parts of the country and they interview Thee hairdresser and shows how she, like you, know, scrope sound the chair after over gas and other protocols- and you know this- that the other it's time consuming at least with far less volume of people coming in, but I do think will be temporary because, as the numbers continue to just either hold sit here too
in most places- and we hear more promising news about potential vaccines on the line, even if it's with us forever, it will become something we can manage and then people will just get sick of the restrictions have been. I cannot tell you, I take the almost the same work every day along the Potomac River and then down to the to the National Mall with one of my sons, and yesterday we saw There are a couple restaurants in Georgetown along the river they were setting up for outdoor seeding and people were literally standing around, like someone had just performed a miracle and asking questions winning opening his Jesse is announced. It can do this very, very careful reopening tomorrow, and it was so interesting to see people's reaction, who had couple weeks ago, been very hustle. Just you know, with their mask another mass passing on the path it, the man, we will change dramatically. I think, over the summer, by the way, those restrictions on the personal restrictions on you, as a patron of these places, are
and you're not gonna hurt you no sir, no sitting even an outdoor settings like your supposedly there's this fantasy and policymakers that you're supposed to constantly move that you have to behave like you're, a shark that need to be constant forward movement or you will die well, then you have school that then you have the new school protocols which I've been hearing about, worked schools or talk about what that, what they're going to do and that that's the opposite by the way This is a thing where students sit at a desk. And they will never leave that desk and the teachers will come in and out, but the students so that different people dont use the same desk. So there's no going from classroom to classroom every will say to ask all of these rules are then based on as an understanding of things that we don't know are true or not true, right like ours.
Surfaces, sources of contagion now they're, not they were, they were thought to be. I went home their knowledge next week. They'll tell us that they are run by the way. We're back. If you shall have some forbearance, though this is an evolving crisis, roundly rejected Yow Burial study, there's another somebody come what one of the doctors in the study comes from the fantastic, No, I didn't, even others still exist soon. Yacht send university in Taipei say
that six feet is not far enough, so I'd. Only that of surfaces are so you can have this entire protocol created about how everyone has to stay in place and not move because surfaces are in danger or danger and then nap. Then surfaces are in a danger so, but you will have established the protocol and then changing it will will make fearful some people whom it comforts and the people that have comforts, particularly unschooling, aren't the kids, but it's the parents. Are the teachers or something like that and getting that then you get into the sky
who is being served by these protocols. Are we serving the general theory that we are preventing the spread of disease or we providing psychological comfort to people so that things can somehow slowly get back to normal? And if its precise, logical comfort, the backlash is going to be raised, you wouldn't. You would think that was the surface transmission thing was the rationale for closing down salad bars and hot bars everywhere, but they're not closed everywhere right now, to me about a block away from me. As I am a spanish themes, marketplace colloquy wake up pretty regularly and their server they still serve hot food and there's plenty of people who take it of that and no authorities have anything to say on the matter and don't seem to care. Ok
westward transmission? Ideally right, as is theoretically, we should be seeing transmission train traced back to this hotspot right, but we haven't ok, guys limit. Let me take a pause, so I can talk about our first sponsor today. Ship o cause for e commerce, businesses, shipping in today's or less as the new staff particularly now when we're all relying on shipping. You know because to live rays are so so to everything. So as a growing business, how can you keep up? That's why you need to look at ship. Oh, your businesses, new secret weapon, ship, the only shipping software for growing businesses that you can start today, serpent minutes and then ship to day, because they ship hundreds of billions of packages, ship
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hey you only pay for customers use them, companies that you ship or save thousands of dollars, free up HUN hours of valuable time and, on average gross seventy seven percent year over year, joint over a hundred thousand companies like goat hymns and me Andy's, who are saving up to ninety percent of character rates with ship. Oh for our listeners, they are offering their best discount available anywhere. Get a ship in consultation and ship will proclaim six months trial for free at go ship, o dotcom, Slash commentary, that's up to a seven hundred dollar value for free. At ghost ship, o dotcom, Slash commentary, that's GEO S h, I p p, o dotcom, slash commentary. Go there right now, get your shipping consultation than ship or pro plan six months. Ralph were free, go ship, Oda com, slash commentary and we think ship over sponsoring the commentary podcast. So here's my question, Noah China is making moves. Both
to its east into its west stuff, going on as usual in the South China Sea, but becoming increasingly more confrontational with Taiwan and with american forces station in the South, China, Sea or in a wandering around such I see and as you pointing out the other day to us seeming to have violated indian sovereignty and establishing some kind of a forward military base on indian territory across the border. So the question here is is trying to acting out of desperation or out of canny cannon. Understanding that the world in this pandemic crisis is uniquely ill suited to deal with its military ventures.
And therefore its can establish new facts on the ground, both in the sea and on land, or is it acting out of desperation because its foreign policy efforts at extending its influence, the famous belted road policy, where their building infrastructure all over the world in exchange for both getting the contracts to build infrastructure and political influence in these countries that that is has taken a fatal blow because of the pandemic, and the fear that dealing with chinese people in chinese official. All that are gonna. Invoke all over the world, and so rather than doing it through this seduction, they're gonna. Do it simply with you know, like brute force, yet really well framed. I wanna go through that little bit and so have approached this topic with the melody that you don't often see in foreign policy circles, because everybody's a sum, here, which I'm pretty familiar with.
My academic background have really been up, ended so check national grand strategy. As we have understood it. For a long time has been one of a sort of Paranoid forward. Thinking and they ve been reluctant to returned the? U S led international order, an overt ways been acting and know much more subtle, settle ways with understanding that the chinese century is forthcoming and than the pandemic hit, and they have been having in precisely the opposite. They ve been acting reckless and expanding, and every possible direction ass. He noted a lot of aggressive activity in the south, China, Sea and in the Senate straight near Taiwan, which isn't a typical, but it's been a lot more aggressive, prompting the? U S to respond with, like five fold increase in patrols in the region.
Confrontations with naval vessels for increasing diplomatic hostility, really leaning heavily on the diplomat and embassies in annexes and of with their european port. And as you say, this is really dangerous confrontation, South Asia, where they arrived at the border between India and China is the world's longest poor. Leave deem arcade order on so the idea of wearing the insurance or begins in chinese territory, begins as a little dead, apparently what happened was they did crossing the territory that is generally undisputed and then pretty constructive and airbags and put a couple of warplanes there and then they move to. Gains until the region and that India responded with another deployment. That's the kind of this is the case escalation, that you would You would see ahead of something that could be very dangerous and spiral out of control and american patrols in the region, and then they contacts that we have between air.
Assets is also really risky. Aren't the sort of thing that we saw when Russia invaded Syria and you had a lot of NATO assets and a lot of russian assets all in the same theatre, behaving very risky ways, and that can spark miscalculations the sort of thing you want to avoid and de escalate and China is not interested in the escalation at this stage, which is a typical behaviour for Beijing, and I think you framed it pretty well that. The calculation has changed and, in the light of this pandemic, so dramatically that the chinese strategy, which was predicated on its objective, its core objective, is displacing the United States and the liberal economic order with its own alternatives by means of present, being a really lucrative, attractive financial option, and that was the belt and ruin initiative.
And the pandemic has abandoned that calculation because it was the pilgrim, wrote, an initiative that was responsible for the transmission of this virus to the places that guy. It really badly early on like ITALY and ran chinese trade was the chief factor of transmission, so chinese goods and chinese economic links are getting aside I from just about every the planet earth, so they decided apparently that they need to make the most of this and are doing so, and now we didn't even mention the crushing of domestic opposition forces, not just in Hong Kong they're. Moving on Hong Kong and the pusillanimity we ve seen from London which has an obligation stated obligation to respond to this win them if the most harshest possible measures, including military measures, has been utterly disheartening, but also the trains We should for its wish to explain that by the way, because Hong Kong, of course was a british colony until one. Ninety seven stably
on a ninety nine year, lease essentially giving britons currency over Hong Kong into Hong Kong was island of get out western zation after forty nine, when the when the chinese com took over and when negotiations are to take place to return hung. How to chinese sovereignty took years, and the Chinese promised to allow Hong Kong, its own political zone or sphere of freedom and economic influence, and it's never angrier four hundred years and its now twenty three? years later, and they have had enough United Nations pledge to respond with a The force of international law, whatever that is, and in and London Pledge to back that, with the teeth that are associated with
the enforcement of international law- all of that has been proven of flawed outfits justice everybody who was terrified about the Chinese taking over Hong Kong said that in that, in the event that China decided that it was going to extend its rules her Hong Kong come on. Let's be honest, as anyone actually gonna go to war, to save Hong Kong really as a Briton, witches retracting, which is pull back from the world as it is do that, and that was the fear in somehow. But that's the fear and that what is a terrifying? That's that's the fear that under goods just about every effort to meet NATO's territorial sovereignty is anybody and it does anybody real. I leave Paris in London in Washington. We're gonna go to war for talent, that is all that is the real concern is low. Is the concern and to really last may
I admit that not a tangible crisis is actually Tarifa there. There is, I think, there's another aspect of this. Does that's related to everything, though said, which is that I think there is a certain degree of I'm desperate face. Saving attempted here on the part of G in particular, because the elites in Beijing, I think, were very disappointed by his handling of Hong Kong, not because it was a harsh, but because it should have turned into this well debacle and as well as was the exposure of the of the treatment of chinese Muslims, the encampment of hundreds of thousands, I think, of chinese Muslims. That was the within all these These secret documents that that were there were leaked exposed to the west.
And made available and in american newspapers that they were horrified by that and by by the pandemic. I think so. I think there there's been this, so this is in part, I think, a at a desperate effort on Jeez part to sort of assert some sense of authority in control, your among those who have lost faith in him We should now that Beijing has been executing the what is, by all indications, the ethnic cleansing of the muslim portions of the country. They had been turned licences and a million city
a million vision and had been have been relocating those citizens round the country not to repopulating the factories that were abandoned when the pandemic lockdown occurring and presumably as a result of the mass death of which were unaware, have been unable to repopulating there. This is this moment, be it of crisis and how the West will respond to the two Chinese. Aggression is really crucial if you think about how Americans think of China right now versus how they thought of China, say five years ago held, the Trump Administration has dealt with China, both from a trade perspective and now, with regard to the virus, there has been so much inconsistency. There's been a lot of attacks of of political leaders pretty if they happen to be republican like Tom, cotton and others. When they do speak out about something China has done. That's that's, you know morally or politically wrong.
I'll call you know, there's all this in a worry about racism, etc, etc. I think this is a real opportunity for the Trump administration to be very consistent on this message about democracy and free and the people who were dying and protesting China we're doing so waving american flags. I mean, there's a very there isn't. There is an obligation on the part of America has to do something here and that doesn't necessarily mean military intervention. But it means just as as moral leadership that there's a whole vacuum right here and I think that that is it that is allowed to continue for too long. That's gonna happen: a long term effect. This is an idiot, logical battle. We're disinclined
to see it as such. It invokes cold war thinking which is something of an epithet in Washington these days, but they evince a video logical commitment to a different model of social organisation that isn't that a call to our own, and that is not as attractive as our own. It needs to be backed by monetary inducements in order to be adopted in place. Like Sub Saharan Africa and Central America, which is where their expanding. We need to embrace the ideological nature of this conflict, which would which would not but some are a little bit of the necessity to deploy our power assets in order to deter China? Ok, let me let me pull back again and just talk to guys for a minute about equip our long time sponsor So like, as I said earlier in the week in our people's habits, have been changing people or even a lot, taking begging
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Both in now many apples and in LOS Angeles of these riots protests turning into looting and fire setting and attacks on police cars and the destruction of a target and setting a housing complex on fire in Minneapolis. In response to the horrible of video of the death of of of George Floyd, who who was SAM, seems to have been killed by a subdue a subdued me to his throat by this officer who was fired almost immediately along with his three colleagues who were with him, stopping this nonviolent offender and at the end and subduing him in the way that he was subdued.
As always seems to happen. These events that then turn into a kind of displays of of lawless destruction and a point, and and pointed economic efforts at economic grab and go there's not a lot worse as somehow in terms of the depressing. Neil ISM, that this all seems to speak to you now and the end of the notion. Somehow that we're we're supposed to look at this kind of behaviour and think that it is a proper or understandable, emotional response to it out to an event like the Floyd killing, as long as I live and having lived through riots in the do, you know
broadly King riots and Ferguson and Baltimore, and all of that, ah, you know how how destroying your own community represents. Eight successful, viable or part were or useful Way of expressing outrage or or or protest is just you know I I don't understand it violated it, not an expression of some sort of a coherent programme at so an expression of somewhat the impotent rage. Not justify rage, and it is clearly not limited to the events that occurred that led to this one particular death. Nor is it probably particularly limited to police brutality is an issue, needs much more much more holistic.
I mean, except you know the say so. The question is: are the people who are out in the street and they and they storm a target and they take televisions out of the target? This is always the question: are they acting because Everything to serve, goes hey, wire and and and, an aids are somehow awakened and they're just serve. You know doing whatever, because the mob is the mob has said some in this group energy or or is it that there are people who are outraged and protesting? And then you have this a population of. Crooks thieves, and you know socio psychopaths who just are taking advantage of it to two I think it would be a mistake to think it's binary. Neither is it. There's operatives areas are all Oliver altogether at once. Well in one of them,
things that I think is frustrating if you're, if, as most of us are sitting here watching it, you know mediated through a screen or through social media, is that the protesters- and there are other, been plenum. I think most of the people in places like Minneapolis are actually trying to have peaceful protests and have their voices heard and at and actually the protest themselves, are effective at reminding leaders in that community that they're gonna be held accountable. The frustrating thing is that I mean, obviously they were. These guys were immediately fired and correctly so the protesters, you think, that's not good enough. They should be charged with murder, but it takes time to bring charges of capital murder. So, even though these guys to even get an arrest warrant for these guys, you have to go to a judge. You have to prove I mean, there's plenty they're doing. I'm quite sure, they're expediting that had so keeping pressure on the leadership to
That is important, but I think, in terms of the looting said so having it's difficult to tell people who were angry and enraged to be patient with a system that they already think is corrupt, but that is kind of what's needn't. I think most of the people protesting. If you you know ass, I understand that that they're keeping the pressure on because they want to make sure this doesn't get. You know, because these guys are cops. I don't want them to get some sort of different treatment. The looters, however, the opportunistic looting of non perishable items, and then you see on social media that defended by people saying oh, it's cause they don't. You know it's for economic hardship that I have much less sympathy for, and I think also it's it's just it. It undermines the absolutely legitimate argument for justice is being made by these protesters. Ok, I'm sorry, I am having a little bit of a. There seems to be a little bit of a crisis behind me in my house, so I am glad that was a mine
yeah it was about that wasn't that without that was my age, you everything you could say a mediator to further sharpened. This distinction between the protests and on the way had and serve looters and vandals on the other. As far as you know, making thee explaining the looting and the vandalism as an expression of rage there's a lot of video coverage of this stuff now and then people and at another man, I'm not talking about the protests which which are justified and which are understandable and in a heartbreaking in a different way. But the cover should that when you see the looting and thee vandalism, I dont see people who are in a state of rage. They they are. They are hat seemingly having a blast in in the coverage that I've seen. I mean
they are, they are there, they are cheering, they are laughing and their serve whipping up. That's a feature of the mob right. Every that's a lie? Is canaries mob that it's just you'd, sacrificing the getting give the way over to the to the lizard brain and that's a very satisfying feeling to lose your identity in the in the crowd. Like that, you know. Of course, it also has the added effect of interfering with if what you and is a serious national focus on this question of whether or not. There is unequal treatment of you know unarmed, unarmed. African American and minorities at the hands of of police officers, and you you want. Guess over the majority to deal with it and look at it
associating it with with this just kind of rank. Rank nihilistic, chrome Behavior interferes with that, for it and an end makes it harder and more more difficult and and hardens the heart of the people who may need to confront their own by This is our lack of interest in this matter for the sake of greater social solidarity in emboldens the people who will never had that that reassessment of their own potential Racism to answer to say out loud what they already believe with it to go dinner, those who, who might be tough, meanwhile. I really need to consider if I had thought through that the justice issues from someone else's perspective there, just
To this end, going Saint told you so and that's that to me is what is so awful about all that. You know that the issue is bakes is its use by a small minority of folks on. You know either end of these discussions to to get us further away from where we need to be now. There's a profound reluctance on the part of the EL officials, within political spectrum, an immediate leads to apply this standards that they ve been applying to everybody else over the course of this thing, which is a mistake, you can be sympathetic to the cause and sympathetic to the conditions that have led to these, situations without suspending your knee jerk,
actionary assault on anyone who gathers and mass during a pandemic which has happened, we have simply suspended that social judgment. You can do that. You can send it to blue eyes with his paws, without entertaining the prospect that maybe violence is justified at mass demonstrations that evolve. To arson are justified in some way. You can condemn all that at the same time as being sympathetic to this cause, but People seem very reluctant to make that that balance, and I don't think of upward balanced strike. Have you see There's that there has been another strain of this which I dont think existed opposite didn't pre, pre economic Bela people posting news stories about economic bailouts by the government and just having that phrase looting all right, let's see, there's this almost this argument like you, we ve allowed the rich and the powerful tool,
the national treasuries fer. You know a long time, and so now this is just pay back. This is pay back for something that is unjust, and I find that a completely absurd heard, but it has an audience. I mean that's. Why get sent around There are of the same audience with people who say we need dissolve every police force at whether those criminals who in friendly- but let me that that is that is at the root of the philosophy. We are whatever what you want to call it: a philosophy of Amoco, cynical ISM witches that law exists, laws exist to protect and defend the powerful in the wealthy and therefore any act of ill.
Galileo is a protest, and so, and that includes murder whatever you want to call it. Any act that seeks to up in the system in some fashion or other that violates law is, is not violating anything, but a compact that is there to. You know in handsome and an end to extend inequality and injustice, There is no Amoco cynical as in the United States, hardly at all, but this this aid to the extent that tat when you get the kind of defenses of of the riots in Ferguson or what I expect to be the defences of the rights here. That is, in fact, a kind of advancement of that really noxious. I have to correct you. There is a constituency for that.
Happens to be ten you're. Not condemning faculty in a small sum of these mines are small, it small, but you know there are those who love it. Shall we say anyway, I guess with with that crushing morosely. We will bring this issue so I can go, find out why my son was screaming he seems, to have stopped screaming. So therefore, It's really really bad yet so I hope you will I will I will I will. I will tell you what happened to Morrow scuttle for aid, Christina. No, I'm jump onwards keeps him.
Transcript generated on 2020-08-03.