The COMMENTARY podcast emerges from Passover hibernation for a special podcast to discuss the collapse of Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign and speculate on the Democratic Party’s future.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to this special edition of the commentary Daily Podcast, we had said we were not going to podcast today, but into the news on Wednesday about he departure from the presidential race, the official departure from presidential race a Bernie Sanders. We could not resist coming to you from the depths of the second day pass over which, of course, as if everyone thinks that I'm
sacrilegious, or something I am taking the israeli rule, which is that it is really only celebrate the first day a pass over since pass over ends with the statement that next year we should be in Jerusalem meeting the Jew should be reduced two to the a holy land and, of course that happened in nineteen forty eight. So we are but the Israelis no longer than they were quite deem it necessary to have two sailors, were too complicated reason. There are two centres, and so the diaspora still has two sailors, but so for our purposes, we had the saviour of. We have the second sailor until today, shouldn't even be holiday. Anyway. That's how explaining why were having this special podcast that we weren't gonna have because we couldn't resist talking about them And by we, I mean
senior editor, a green wild, hello Abe. I John Senor Writer, Christine rose and high Christine I John associated, entered nor Rossman, high Noah Asia, so Let me tell you a little commentary at the editing of commentary magazine story. If I could cause it will it speaks to the difficulties are complications of running a monthly and and the interesting speed with which Joe Biden Secure the democratic nomination and Bernie Sanders fell from being the front runner. To being an also ram are March issue was heard of it. Works, we had a cover, everything was was going strong and it was a picture of bird,
Sanders with a trump had on every word, quite sure what the Trump have was gonna say. One please say: socialism is the future and points points can say something else and- and there were two articles ever going to anchor this issue one by an nor Rossman. A portrait of Bernie Sanders is life. As a socialist and another by Dean Rosen about the the crew of socialist. Young socialists and fellow traveller who were following in his wake and This was all happy and set and planned, and then in likes that thirty six hours VERDI's had collapsed. Joe Biden, one South Carolina by twenty nine points and and then, of course, like a couple of days later, one eleven and fourteen the Super Tuesdays.
Aids and got endorsement of three of his so now too people dropped out of the race and through their support to with him. You know. Ninety six hours Biden was the nominee in Bernie was dead, and so we had like a week left before we get to put the issue at, and so we made the painful decision to hold no as peace, because it wasn't gonna red light, Why will re writing about Bernie Sanders when Bernie Sanders was mad at you so dead in the water and the March issue leads with Christine's peace. The rise of the new Jacobites, which, if you haven't read it we should certainly rates. I'm only bring this up to say that we we This is an example of what the news can do to make a magazine to make the list. The magazine rather complicated, but
think even more important. It reveals how this set this dynamic, that as the democratic party and whoever how really one of the elder the The leadership of the grass roots, the voters, not in the three early estates, took up look at where they were going, and this was just, of course, as the pandemic was beginning to suggest that it was going to be a major life swept her the entire party. What what now that we can't? We can't do this. So. We have with us. The two authors of those two pieces at no is no was long peace on Bernie Sanders is life and career. We put up on our decide on Wednesday, thickets, still the lead
well, it was five thousand word peace, so much of a blog, so they break it up. Yes right anyway. So so, let's discuss what happened here and there and the main question that we were raising with this issue was ok. Does this mean the Democratic Party is so effectively gone socialist when we were toying with the idea of keeping the issue with a cover with birdie, since we have, since our art director Carol, Moscow have done some work for the shopping had and set up an ad. It looked really good to you know. Could we still somehow use him as a as a cover boy for this idea that the socialist future, the Democratic Party still had a socialist future? So that's where we are
it. Does them high price for the Socialists future and in the wake of these six trillion dollar the opening bid in the recovery relief stimulus whenever you want to call a path, it is a six billion dollar expenditure. That is the opening like we ve. No one thinks this is where it's. This is all we're. Gonna spend Will there be money when this is all over to go more socialist? So anyway, that's that's the set up for today's podcast, No, it wasn't you dilate a little bit on this whole question of Bernie Sanders, isn't really a socialist cause, we're not really socialists in Amerika. I wanted the fun things happen. In the wake of that meeting, awake of his room, removing himself from the race was Bernie Sanders. A believer title was communication.
Mr Rector, I'm not sure shoes and communication side of the of the campaign, Brianna Joy, gray, took to twitter and said well at least now. I can stop using the words the democratic to describe Socialist ATLAS, it's as if they really got us guys hold one over on us here. Where a little naive, it was pretty apparent what they were gunning for an open and the question of his, any money left over for socialist schemes, for a socialist there's, always money in the banana stamp. The really is no limit to the extent to which you can draw on the credit card or simply print print money and then tax it away in order to arrest inflationary pressure, and that's literally, that the the far left economic prescriptions and you can read, the The second part of this giant peace that I did for the magazine its online right now, it's called the Democratic Party socialist make over is only delayed and it goes through essentially three. The themes that I think
ensure that the democratic parties drift in the direction of socialism has not been arrested, but has only been deferred. The first is when you examine the conditions in which the Democratic Party found itself in Bernie Sanders seem to be the prohibitive favorite to win the nomination, after winning several of the early February contests and
I'm asking a lot of delegates in putting himself in a trajectory when the race was that a lot of the parties leading lights began to make peace with this person as their nominate. Their was not going to be any fight at the convention over Bernie Sanders people like Paul Krugman and as recline and half a dozen members of Congress and you'll Philippic and magic laziness, and one of these people who create the right guy strengthen the Democratic Party was did two things one. They were coming in, trying to talk themselves into the notion that Bernie Sanders was no socialist at all. Really, he was just you know, of an aggressive social Democrat molded just about anybody else in the party and also that he would have a pretty effective chance of beating Donald Trump in November, based on the current had had polling data that they had available at the time which
indicate that if you go through Bernie Sanders Programme, his it's nothing like an aggressive social, democratic european mould. Alot of his programmes go well beyond what european policies would accept, because in part they had already attempted them. Many of them had been rolled back, but these were all amenable to not just the Democratic party leading lights, but in pulling we had seen Democrats rank and file except and embrace, if not the programmes themselves, the philosophy behind them and then ultimately- and this was consistent across even these races- we're Joe Biden was winning in exit polls. You would find Democrats by saying that it, much more amenable to socialism and socialist programs, then you would expect from a party that was
bullying the lining up behind the so called moderate in the race, and, ultimately, Joe Biden does not present a competing vision for the direction of the party. Now key events is a sort of compartment that contrasts with the style preferred by social Democrats. Democratic, socialist, rather much more combative. And much less amenable to working with even people within their own coalition, with whom they disagree, but he does not offer a competing ideological vision has programmes. Are more left than any other democratic rent for this office. So in the absence of that competition, you can expect Democrats to continue to drift in the direction of socialism with varying degrees of of alacrity, in that sense, Bernie Sanders has left an indelible mark on the party and there will be a much more competent, much more a men friendlier face. I guess you could say somebody who who's a little bit and easier to to accept returns
only then Bernie Sanders will eventually pick up this mantle em all alone and will run with that and what will be the nominee, its point, and then that will be the future of the body, Christine about ten years ago, we commentary published a piece by Jonah Goldberg, which we mischievous, they called what kind of a socialist is Barack Obama and we We determine their Jonah determined than that peace. That Barack Obama was a NEO socialist sort of in the manner of a NEO conservative at the very beginning of NEO conservatism that he was not there yet, but was certainly trending in that direction, with every fibre of his being, let's say so. The question, then, is what kind of a socialist his job pipe according to Noah and, and that was of course, Obama's NEO socialism was years before,
Bernie Sanders. Sad that the whole idea that bring centres would even be anything. But you know a kind of comic back. Bencher but yet then one in the house and then one in the Senate. You know that he would somehow emerges a major american political player was seen out, seemed fantastical cause. Why? When you meet him, given what had happened so what kind of a socialist is Joe Biden and the people that you wrote about in your piece the rise of the new Jacobin. Ah, who are a little more like the press, spokesman for they Sanders bring out a grey. Ah, I think they think that he is a socialist based on their extreme discomfort and displeasure. With this turn of events and with the way things went before, the virus up ended
well, it's it's interesting because having followed the coverage even before Bernie, obviously officially withdrew, but when it was pretty clear that he would have to, I was struck by how often the progressive left, you know the kind of Justice democrat style, progressive left us we're saying things revolutions aren't about a particular individual thereabout ideas there, one about ideas, but I think in twenty sixteen, the revolution was about Bernie in twenty twenty, it's become. About the ideas and in fact, that's actually a little bit more dangerous. So I agree with no that it, we all have seen how much it's push button to the left and I don't think he can backtrack all that much during. Election in the general election is thine. Billy build backtrack, all that much on from the further left positions he's taking that are far more to the less than any other democratic presidential candidate in recent memory, but I was also struck by the way. Bernie himself is justifying a lot of his campaign
movement and in other Veronica quick pieces about- and there is a list with burning at the New York Times- wrote a kind of hilarious. I don't think she meant to be hilarious. I found it to be absolutely just got busting legal areas like Verde loved. What everything you said is true. I mean it was kind of comical and then John Nicholls is a right for the nation wrote a piece in the Atlantic and both of them emphasised this point that Bernie truly revolutionary accomplishment wasn't getting as close to the nomination as he it it's. How much has galvanised young people- and they are all kind of crawling about that they're saying: ok, we have set by this time whatever, but look at the young people and Nicholls points out like, oh, if, if Alexandria Yo Cortez waits forty years to run for president, should still be younger than Pirnie, is now me they're already looking ahead to the kind of news, who is going to rise up, as you say, take up this mental and go with it. Someone much more palatable and obviously someone with much less of a legislate
record than Bernie had not the accomplishments as a legislator. But someone who hasn't been inside Washington that long and the other thing that struck me was they re up to something because Bernie had done in the past. The John Nicholls piece in the Atlantic did this in particular. In it pointed out we have to. We have to embrace Bernie has reminded us, which is that any activist should be encouraged to run for office We have to be an expert in anything. In fact, expertise isn't something you want, and it reminded me of how much criticism the tea party got on the Republicans I'd for encouraging people for activists for local and state and and national office, and this is exactly what the Justice Democrat fuelled left is encouraging now and they are having success. We note the squad is in part. Example of this, but at the local level to people running for school boards and what not? So I I think if you're concerned about the direction the country is going, and your conservative, political, your fiscal, conservative is worried about our future foreign policy. Bernie
Stepping out of the race is a blip, but we need to continue to monitor the movement that he has been inspiring for quite a while. Now I have a question room briefly for everyone. To what extent can we tribute that sentiment, that Christine is is outlining the sitting on the self soothing Bernie left to just in effort to to convince themselves that all this effort? Wasn't it he said and what is it whatever? It is real and anybody who looks at the returns and says all these young p, will they energized? We really have to keep that movement around also knows that they didn't vote in numbers sufficient to win races and that's a losing strategy. It's like saying look at all the forerunners that foreign nationals that Donald Trump Energized and twenty sixteen, what we don't vote. So it doesn't matter Riah, nobody, Latin, whether how much of that is real and how much of it is just a narrative For years, eight years, twelve years, they will vote if they like in terms of aid that will do you get the more likely you are art abode, so those younger energize voters, the thing they can.
As we know, is actually right, they don't turn out right now, but they are not. As they age from what we ve seen there becoming more conservative, their staying liberal whether we don't know about them? Is we don't know how they would vote if they had voted? This notion that, because the people who voted in the temporary, Eddie overwhelmingly in out between the age of eighteen twenty nine voted for Bernie does not speak to what the people who didn't vote were ages. Eighteen to twenty nine would have, and so are for the presumption as that, they function as a kind of pole group representing the whole. But not voting is a form of except Instead, the status quo generally tales generally taken as such, and therefore you know that's where it could be a silent majority for Trump, and who knows I do I don't think that's true is pulling suggests everybody that Trump is very unpopular with people under the age of thirty. I think it's like sixty thirty five
however, something like that in terms of unpopular reverse popularity, but aid, you were as somebody who gets into fights I'm on Facebook with them liberals, Rebecca Maybe you wanted, it is anxious well outside You don't work, no accurate. Sadly, I used to be like that. Any kid can you what's your? What's your perspective on the serve the Democrats and how they feel about all this shirt liming if the future of the donor a party isn't socialist. What is it there's? Socialism is the only glue with the, however diluted it is, and in Vienna political strength at various at various points. It's the only serve commonality? Its is is the prospect.
Of more more more at stake, giving more there's, no energy. There's no activist energy behind pulling things back there be behind moderating its socialism is the sort of guiding star. Sometimes it's it's a little more in the distance. Sometimes it's right in your face, but that is the fact. Is that as the gravity that is they there's there's nothing else unify I mean there's identity politics, but that I dont think even TAT, were to be implemented in terms of economic policy and things like that you're once again back in the realm of socialism, while okay. So let me let me put it back on this in two ways, one of which I dont know that socialism as properly understood, which is government control of the economy. It is the national liberation of major industries. It is Sam
a confiscatory tax tax rate so that the deed money is redistributed from the affluent to the less affluent that it is the the erection of the economy, like you know we want, we want a sort of a privilege, Agricole Debts in Vienna, stalinist terms when a privilege AG culture over this are we want a privilege cement mixing over? in our resources, irrespective of market forces right well, but ok, so that socialism, is that where the energy is or is the energy in identity politics and welcome this because of course, Bernie spoke in woke terms right in and when, and he always did, and he always by did and when the field, the democratic field, was twenty people One of the things that we all noticed them were quite startled by were these candidates who, who had died,
That the way to success was to be as woke as possible, you're talking about people who were when this is a kind of market choice right, khazar, Christian Jill Brand- I didn't need to be. You know that, a candidate or you know their trans candidate or whatever. She was somebody who ten years earlier, had been a pro gun, Anti Abortion Democrat that within it ten or fifteen years early and suddenly she had sir staked out positions. You know now, I would say to the extreme left, because these let our been a pretty extreme, and so she made conscious deliberate choice, position herself there, as did Cleon Castro, As did you know a couple of other people, including a quarry Booker again, somebody would once thought about being a Republican to run for office, so I dont know
the economics, are, what is, is it like? That's what they read, they read a social issues. They didn't read the economic issues. I would say to this that first than that for the future- the democratic parties are socialist voters and we don't know what conditions will prevail in the future and John. You have a good piece in your post today, I believe, or yesterday that outlining the fact that you know that the conditions for this election alone have if we change and they look like they're gonna, whenever new normal evolves out of this moment will prevail. So we don't, we can't projecting to the future, and its is much more serious, sober time right. Well, I tend to agree with the minor push back, that there is really very little tension between. As I have said, I doubted politics and socialist economics. There the very much hand in hand. There is no socialist country in arcs,
it's in the twentieth century that wasn't and identity politics state, the Soviet Union invented affirmative action as a punitive measure. In order to DE privilege, the of the Russians who are presumed to have benefited from czarist policy is presiding over the of the territories and republics like viceroys, and they invented this punitive effort to establish a little local republics that were governed by the apparatchiks that they had
had elevated and the primary criterion for being of inefficiency of the system was to happen. I have particular ethnic identity and when that system failed, then it resolved devolved into russification, which was once again a particular ethnic identity, and you see a very similar pattern in just about every others: a socialist state in EAST Asia and South EAST Asia and in Eastern Eastern Europe, all of them Britain give followed this particular prescription that did have an identity politics model that was at least part of how resources are allocated knows somewhat corrupt, but that's sort of a facet of it in a new politics that views doesn't view it takes a dim view with a meritocracy what I would say the case. So what? If- and this happens in politics hoping it happened, and twenty sixteen in the robot inside what, if the entire Anders ending of the democratic parties elect.
Officials and the ones these twenty people who ran for president. What, if they completely misunderstood the political moment, end Why Bernie Sanders had been such a success in twenty fifteen? Twenty. Sixteen is, of course, the story. Of twenty. Twenty is the Bernie Sanders having taken over the party in is everybody the left and all of that did far worse in twenty twenty than he didn't twenty. Sixteen granted he didn't when the nomination twelve sixteen heated, it's a girl the twenty slash twenty twenty, but he one twenty state. He won Michigan where he lost by double digit. This time you know he he he was ass. He was on a dogged Hillary Clinton, the entire time he did five times as well, as anybody expected him to
at this time, including in the states that he won, he underperformed. He got it out. He one New Hampshire by a point right, PETE peep in People get arguably one Iowa lost by a point to Sanders in Hampshire and you know he one forty six percent in the Walker, state of Nevada heeded way were seated we got you got you got it so, the lotion that he has transformed the party, the minute that the party even thought that it needed to coalesce against him. It just smashed him to rid smashed him to smoke. Well. You know what one thing that I think will be interesting to watch in the next few months to help that might answer. That question is how democratic voters will react to Obama right
Oh he's free to kind of come out and play the United in the Hitler and, let's all get together, I mean it has already started. We thought we were already seeing little bits and pieces of this. He started to speak out more, but there's a fairly aggressive wing of the Democratic Party that that has spent the last several years. Criticising Obama policies. Talking about him as a sell out, you he's a NEO liberal, he's he'd, he wasn't as radical as is they had hoped or expected him to be. So I will be what we should all watch that closely to see whether he will have that calming influence, and I think he feels he he will have in that Biden certainly expects and hopes into have. But if those, if those voters day, upset or angry, even if Bernie wasn't a successful, getting them to the poles this time around a meme. Biden some needs them to turn out somewhat in inserts pray certain states in order to make sure that he defeat tromp. I mean again all this with with the pandemic
is up in the air, but I'll, be really interested to see how unifying Obama actually proves to be at this moment, because, on the one hand, because of the pandemic. I think a lot of people will be relieved to Someone familiar and comforting, on the other hand, his the young radicals and his party, don't like him that much I don't push people voted, good. I'm an ideological way like that, but I just don't think they do they most liver. That does like I asked you know so like to get back to this, the framing of whose the future the identity politics, or is it the Socialists to energy? In the past few years, when Obama comes out with these statements about the left sort of going too far or a sort of needing to check itself, it's it's not up bowed
socialism its it is about serve their the identity? Obsession right. It's like its pull back on that a little bit there is. There is more important things. There is economic justice actually to kind of worry about, so I think you know he is. He has this He's he's the non yelling, some sort of like slow and steady, Nea socialist could get his keys. Let it easy still moving forward in that more well. So, using that as an example, the thing that that faces us is the Bernie said their idea. We need a revolution in this country. Right is based on the notion that we live in crisis right. There seven million people don't have enough health care or out of the vision, healthcare now and all that kind of stuff. And so you know the whole question is whether or not
the American, be they elect, believes that we are in a crisis and so therefore would be willing to up in the way we for our economy and our government, and all of that in order to ensure a more equitable distribution of resources. In God. Her health get all that stuff right and that's always been the hard sell for socialism, which is why why would you do it? You know things are not so bad or you know, even when their bad, there's hope or something like that. Now, We are in a genuine crisis of a sword that we have never seen before it certainly in our life. They know. Nothing like this is ever remotely happened and you will notice that there is absolutely there was very little resistance except socialist resistance. Two. Eight trillion dollar relief bill right. There was no because the ideas this is an emerging,
the house is on fire. You have to turn on the hoses and poor water on the house, that is on fire in order to put the fire out before it burns down, and there's no ideological component of that. It is a desperation measure and ideology. What removed from it under those conditions. We have a lot of money where rich country we have come our economy off and so need to use our resources right now in the most dramatic possible way to ensure that we don't in other, that that this whole does not become a sink hall. So I keep getting email after this com. I wrote saying: oh, we owe you say a barricade. Socialism is a fantasy. Well what? What is this bill? What is this builds companies going?
the government demanding relief, but it's not about the company's it's about the entire, economy, the american economy, the world economy- and this is a Luzhin, because the whole notion of socialism is as those that the reallocation of resources without reference to market conditions, but as a kind of political matter, political choice and I submit that. While this unbelievable level of government intervention is unprecedented, it will not and could create the conditions under which Americans That's a degree of government involvement in the economy that before they were more uncomfortable with in practice.
There will be no money to play these games with aid. I I agree with you, but I just want to extend your metaphor for the purposes of countering those who say well. This is socialist. Now we are turning. The hoses on now is, as John says, because the house is on fire, so tourism. Turning the hoses on when the house is not on fire and Drawing the how exactly right exactly, but I mean you have to in words its understood that to say we need a revolution, you you need evolution, because current Dishes are intolerable that that that is the those are the circumstances that lead to revolution, and when the Democrats are having this debate, when the unemployment rate is three point. Five percent about how the economy is terrible and it
and the inequity is as unsolvable an unforgettable and all of that there there was a search extremely weird unreality to it. The way there was when Bob Doll was running in that ninety six and the growth rate in America was somewhere around five percent and he's like: what's the matter with you, people, This guy is terrible. You get reelected. What's the matter, you wake up America, it's like! Well, you know. Maybe they didn't mean to wake up, because actually things were fine, No, I mean I didn't vote for Clinton the night you maybe six, but that doesn't mean that I was right. Ain't. No, I again, like I'm an idiot logical voter, so I have a different take as Noah says on these matters than than most people at their ease thing to be concerned about in what you said and not see the kind of habits of mind and expectations of voters, and I think one of the powerful things that Bernie has succeeded in doing is getting is talking.
A lot of compromises? We make a decision Adrian needs that we try to meet and that the state is expected to meet my tongue about things. Has rights health care is a right human rights. This is a human right. Everything is a right right, right, right, right and very little discussion of responsibility, but I do think that We end up in a world where the expectation is that any crisis encourages. We should look immediately to the state to fix it and whether that throwing money at the problem, even if it, even if the that's for just a moment or two to write the ship as it were as I mixing on my metaphors weight. Throw another one in there, then we become a little bit like the frog in the pot of cold water in the boil against turned her very slowly. So there are, there are sort of civic habits of mind and expectations, and an entire vocabulary about rights and responsibilities that has shifted in a direction that AIDS
that's a more socialist mindset than it does. I would argue, a free market or conservative. Why look? Ok what that there's something! This is all very philosophical, but there are some nuts and bolts associated with the recovery effort that are gonna complicate all of this for everybody's politically, the illogical picture some dead now we're gonna go over on a percentage PETE. I think, if we're not already, there will be more probably pushing the insolvency crisis, which was around twenty twenty six to probably twenty twenty five You mean the solvency of all our ears on Title Mayas, Medicare, medicate Hospital Insurance fund was insolvent. Twenty twenty six last, I think I remember from the trustees which was like last year, so it's probably moving forward everything's moving forward a little bit so how you address that nothing answered for the left is always taxation, and probably taxation has to be a part of this, but another part of it has to be cuts in growth rate of these programmes, and that's probably never going to be palatable, certainly was intolerable in good times. Probably now can we palatable terrible times, so you can probably exe
simply more borrowing. That's where the political posture is going to be the easiest route is, is gonna be second, what they're going to want to do is pushed economic activity forward. That's what we didn't two thousand and nine- that was cash for clunkers- that was a bunch of stuff just make it really really enticing to engage in the kind of economic activity, big purchases that you would have done two years ago, do them now and that's what will prolong the recovery process, because when you do it now, you got a little birthday because I was activity you pay for it later, because attic activity isn't barely. I just I don't know if that's if that's right about this current, but because we are doing vastly more rubber this bill is it trillion dollars larger I've been the current recovery act, come as a presents a trick in dollars larger than the than the stimulus bill was in two thousand and nine, and it is for
Firstly, not directed to these cutesy little programs like cash for clunkers and stuff, like that it is directed at giving people, unemployment and torrents, providing direct money to voters and trying to incentivize keeping people employed in the private sector and have it you gotta, have seventy million people unemployed. I know he's hiring. No, I arab that, but so you want to get that you want to keep that. Seventy million fool like flattening the curb you wanna, keep that seventy million static and then provide direct relief to the people who are unemployed until hiring can begin again right, that's the that's. The v shaped recovery theory is that this is a temperate. You gone down in a pet keep people solvent or Lena mildly, as liquid, as you possibly can, until they can get back to work now. So that's not cash for clunkers, and it's not. You know,
restructuring the automobile industry to make them have more favourable condition, with the United Auto workers or stuff, like that, it's it's it's it! It's a dick approach. I have no idea whether it's worse a better approach or worse approach. Going to have to see almost everything that was you that was done during the stimulus in two thousand and nine slash, two thousand and ten was far less effective than even conservatives thought they were going to. Like concerned. It was thought that the that the keynesian stimulus would actually be more effective in the short term than it turned out to be because the problems, the structural problems with the banking industry and the liquor that world liquidity crisis, a word so easily addressed by giving states money. They then used it to two with their own state debt service under their own laws. So you know it's it's that were witnesses,
never position. But I wanted to look back at the one debate between Biden. And Sanders alone, remember the sit down debate that they had to have while they kept social distance right, because this was March with so this is by the way. This is something else others were not really time by the virus, but when this is over, we should talk about this whole notion at people attacking all of the projections and all of that on the grounds that damn, ah you know, the social distancing only really started in you know at the end of March, when government started putting and shelter in place of provisions- and so Therefore, this shows that the that deep projections at the University of war, since another's we're just totally dishonest, because they claim to have show that social distancing worked, but even and yet, and yet did blah blah blah
You know it's like social distancing was already a thing in the second week of March member, the avoidance of caution, but you remember the abundance of caution stuff. Like my kids school would my schools were cancelled already. You know stuff like that. Ok, so Biden Sanders and get out like it's only been a month ago? But you can barely remember this, so they were asked. You know how to deal with this and Biden said it was like a war right. He said the virus is like a war. This thing comes from a broad and it's much bigger than than anybody and you you have to deal with it in that fashion and sand or say Sanders said what this exposes, the dysfunctionality of our health care system? Okay, we lack a system that is prepared to provide health care for all people and then what happened?
Over the last month, whatever over last month was effectively. We have declared medical care for all for anybody with the virus, I'm right, basically, you will pay no healthcare bills and the entire medical system, particularly in the states affected, like New York, has been rebuilt instantaneously so that all everything is an emergency room. And the central thing about emergency is that people are turned away when they can or cannot pay. So this is preposterous right. This was a preposterous angle at which to talk about. The virus and Bernie had no other way to talk about it because he has no other thought process and, as I as I say, this mere post peace, where I'm getting a lot of flak from from Bernie Heights,
You know, socialism is a fantasy about the future. It is a Now today, as I mentioned, one of the first socialist chauffeur yea had this idea that, if socialism were applied as he wished in the end, the universe, to be so harmonious that the oceans would turn to lemonade. This is literally an idea of four years at the beginning of socialism in eighteen, thirties and all socialism is based on it. Fantasy, I think, of all coral reaching when all that citric acid just don't like lemonade. Obviously, some people, like when I write and so Bernie faced with this- you know. Okay, what are we going to do about this thing that is about to overwhelm us is like I'm going to retreat back? To my my you know my nonsense. I'm going to retrieve back into my comforting answers about how what we need is so is
the care for all and socialism when in fact, you get under emergency conditions and tree eyes. What you get is. We will talk about cost later we are going to heal as many people as we can now. If you have it billion dollars or you have one dollar and you need a ventilator we're going to do what we can to have a ventilator to put you on. If you need it, we're going to build, ventilators were going to take over company, so they build ventilators and we're going to shove those ventilators down your throat and ask how we're going to try to deal with this. That is actually what happened to reality, and this is the quest I think about this Socialists future, which is when the Democratic Party looked at Bernie Sanders as he was about to run away with the nomination, and they said I'd know why cause they're the best position that any output
he has been really, I would say, since nineteen eighty cause one thousand nine. Ninety two was a weird election cause. There was a third party candidate right, but in Nineteen. Eighty two making President one term president there in the best position there leading in the polls Democrats, you know Trump is unfair. Mueller, even with this month of you, know, pushing the virus, his pulse of followed, fallen. Back and all that they are the best position. They ve ever been to make out to make someone one term president they looked at the writ. They said this is too risky and you what we don't really like it. Maybe we don't like the sound of this, because the candidates that did the best Biden and Buddha Judge and Clover chart the three candidates. It did the best side from Sanders, we're all opposed to Medicare for our world pose
said into the socialist system, even though they like the system which is NEO socialist. As it stands right, they deliberately and explicitly opposed the sand. Are spending programme right, which was, I think, fifty to sixty trillion dollars. But you can't put a number on a human right Johns. I wish you would think I'm trying to put a number on a human right. Thank you, it's terrible that it does so I don't know I mean you know it's like it's like you. You go up to the brink, and you don't know- I mean you know- or it's all fun, it's all fun and games to toy with these fine idea It's like. You know like on the right like levels. Have you no one? Nine? We should have a flat tax, that's fine flat! I! What a great you know admit, projection so exciting it really, it could ever have a form its one page in you know everything is just twelve twelve percent twenty percent across the board like the by
The time you don't twenty percent, when you know I will have the islands are continued. Finish without just get to say, and then when it comes down to it, it's like What are you crazy, like it's a bite of it? It's ok, nine, nine, maybe I'll go guide. You know until like there is actually a moment when you have to say: will power we get out of date three hundred and thirty million people. How are we going to govern it? Are we going to like have as the central idea that we're going to like- attacks, there's a reason. We don't have a flat tax Eddie. I will add that this sort of thing you know they had the apocryphal story about how Hudson entered the the harbor unfolding in native Americans couldn't see the ship's because they were so anathema to them. So there's something of that to the american response to the virus. Among the socialist left, for whom this is the worst healthcare system on the planet earth they were expecting,
a complete melt down of society based on these numbers, which were not. It was not an unreasonable expectation based on the projected numbers, but the healthcare system in the country has as vastly over performed what we expected it to be noticed. Probably multifarious condition, there's a lot of reasons for that: their social distance, anger, social stigma, there's a government response as a lot of that, but is also the fact that we have one of the best healthcare systems in the world when it comes to outcomes and outcomes had been really beating the projections in my state alone. You know well that five hundred below the expected number of beds, another thousand
this missed by the socialist left for a real long time, and I can't see the benefits of them even either all around, but also that's as compared to know as you ve written about the way socialist systems have fared under the under the threat of the virus immediately in Amerika for all systems, yeah right, yeah. Well, I mean nobody speaks up for the american healthcare system is one of the natives of the danger in the american healthcare smell that has been really dismissed by the socialist left for a real long time, and I can't see the benefits of them even either all around, but also debts as compared to know as you ve written about the way socialist systems have fared under the under the threat of yeah, I mean ITALY, nomadic care for all systems, yeah right, yeah, we're! Well I mean nobody speaks up for the american healthcare system is one of the
it's the invasion and the american healthcare smell, but they also they also. They have complaints of a different way right. There's too many forms, there's too many others that the the american healthcare system is the one of the greatest achievements in in in human history, in terms of what what, if you take the healthcare systems mean the pharmaceuticals industry, the medical devices, industry and and care and treatment in American. You know from american doctors from from all all aspects, dentistry to plastics, her to burn to whatever the the answers over fifty years ago, just or seventy five years they are almost unthinkable e astonishing and everybody craps all over it. Everybody right left centre. Everything is bad, it's either to social, it's not so
It was enough there's too much like there's. Not enough. Liability. Drugs are drugs are making people sick. It takes too long for drugs to come to market. It's all a free for all, because it's it's a it's a Morpheus general target for everybody's. Priors, and I will tell you right now, if you think that the what no one just started talking about is something that anybody is gonna say in the way this they're, not gonna, say what they say is you'll everyday. Seven o clock in New York Pulling out the window and cheer healthcare workers right so they're going to say, healthcare workers are fantastic. None other nurses, yet that the left is gonna, say and already is saying. As far as I've seen a few tourism, there that there are people profiting as a result of the settlements, meta during this crisis that that's gonna, be, I think, a lot of what we hear in the fall about the healthcare system is separated from. Yes, he ate the healthcare workers which, obviously we all agree with, but the people who will profit who will be
we are for profit system and in so many ways in which is at the root of why they left certainly hate it. Much it. What are you gonna be like super supporting the troops and not the war? bingo bingo? That's exactly right, including right it, including the fact that many of the workers are coming away, sick and some are dying. I mean it's, it's like the timeline problem, which is we should have mobilized in January, but we were to say, Babo had they now now it's so the other had what I mean. I think how fast we mobilized its April night to them. Heads excuse me, I'm SAM I'm having a free. They dont idea that we can see that they don't ask me that its organs, again, that the debate between by and Sanders when Dino Centres is pretty much the running, but they could still get together and why
Internet, a the studio right that wasn't deemed unacceptable Biden. We know was allowed to come out of his basement. Then was what is that that's twenty what it said literally, one thousand six hundred and twenty six days ago, twenty six days ago- and you know, New York is built a field hospital in central park which, thankfully it looks like it's not going to have to use a turn over its convention center into a field hospital. Every hospital in New York City has essentially merged for that for the time being vent leaders of being shipped to the city from all over the place in twenty six days. And it was this- was all done by the way a week ago, so this was nineteen days, not twenty six days, that's too slow. I mean I don't
oh, that that wine, which is conveniently timed to make you know Trump look terrible, is, is gonna, look so horrendous. You know, when all is said and done has yeah. We didn't do it fast enough, but like how could you have done it faster? Could you really have done it faster for impeachment trump comes out in the I've said this for control comes out in the middle of January, the end of January, even He is announcing the travel ban to China that wasn't the travel ban from China and says there's this virus coming, so we are going to have to everyone's gonna have to stand six, we depart don't get and shake you could have to wear masks the gladden public and
he went over, seventy you're not allowed to visit them, and everyone should, where we're gonna, can't close schools and closer business and everyone's gonna shelter in place to have done so what happened? To dismiss expert guidance, everybody's there's a lot, a wretch retroactive conditioning going on ya to try to make people believe that these conditions were obvious to everybody in January, ran only where they not obvious that the active advice from places like the W Waco informed by data from China, which was flawed, an falsified, suggested that this was done. Got to get that it was not a very highly contagious. It didn't happen. Anywhere near the or not that we see today and that it was probably not too bad for you. Most people are gonna, have like it, just a basic flew. So if you work, When do it to do those kind of conditions who have been accused of being in a way
Civilization, ass on the right for him. There were probably fourteen people who saw this thing is the world ending disaster. It is because they see everything is represented in the disaster and it does not mean that they get. You would have had to actively dismiss everybody around you. Who, then, who is purse, presses to be enough, so enamored with expertise so the whole expert class would come down around his shoulders, and you know what people have said they would have said he is to Northern Ireland and some have any is attempting to interfere with the democratic nominating process, because what is happening in the first week of February, the first democratic contests right and we basically have seen the effective suspension and probably get out now. It's not it's not meaningful, because there's no real competition, but seventeen states or something haven't voted yet about back to burning. Briefly, I mean that's a historical. What, if that we are really profound lucky to have missed. If this thing had hit two weeks earlier, we would have been in a condition when the democratic primaries were very much up in the air that was win.
Thirty, eight Michael had no one winning as the most likely outcome, and each of these candidates would have had a very compelling claim to the nomination probably bite in the least compelling of all of it, and if it had happened three weeks later, Biden would have crushed Bernie like a bug. Even more decisively. And it really wouldn't matter whether he stayed in or not. I mean again. I think the fundamental question about this is this: is the Democratic Party's futures? just, because a Bernie showing has to be one qualified than one thought it was a couple of months ago because in the end he proved he did half as well in twenty twenty as the as the
ideological leader of a movement than he did in twenty. Sixteen, as the alternative to Hillary Clinton, and so while a set of ideas even upset obnoxious ideas has to be dealt with when When you have candidates with no ideas, like Biden who are having and sell, the ideas will Jen ten tend to dominates answers. Nothing else to dominate. That doesn't mean that that those ideas have actually earned their place if twenty five percent twenty percent, or some like that of the Democratic Party, which is only a third of the country anyway, is as subscribes to them, while brat upset as before. But I think it's true, I think it's a part. Big cause. His ideas had more thoroughly permeate the party by that point, so high
wasn't your only option if, if what you wanted was big government and end, it will initiatives and the energy of these socialist message shifted in twenty. Eighteen, the squad types right, and certainly the media's efforts to shift the energy. Each of that group has not really abated, and the fact that a yo see herself started to distance himself from Bernie as he was flailing is, is signify and and dumb we've been some attempts to rehab her radicalism by claiming oh now, she's she's, the kinder gentler AOC who understand she has to work within the system. I don't buy that for a second. I think there was at the. I do think the ideas if their embodied in young. Seemingly energetic groups like the squad and aided and abetted by it completely credulous media that does nothing but promote their there. It's supposed, the great ideas and downplay or totally ignore things like their anti Semitism, that that is going to
we're going to see more of that not less in the years to come. I think, that is entirely dependent on what happens in November. Biden winds in November, the dynamic is entirely different. By the losers in November them. Well, how much is it going to concede to the squad? Element of his party will be the question if he wins right go forward right, yeah right, but I mean the pressure it will there be an end? Will there be a fight within the Democratic Party with a Bible, White House or will There be, will the Trump model for want of a better word prevail and that A dynamic of negative polarization will lead to a completely unified democratic party because they, because you know they hate, Republicans much more and I'm gonna spin out little fancy Agamemnon, there's just justice for I've observe mentioned this before, but I want
It should be to respond to this the virus is terrible. A continues. We don't really reopen until September, let's say or, however, works and Trump loses in November, because it's just been in One of the most horrible periods in american life and he be blamed enough for it that I don't know what that guy. I don't know whether he loses bury lose a small doesn't matter, but he loses awe and bind becomes. President trumped doesn't go away Trumps, the line will be Trump lost because of exogenous condition over which he had no control right, which is a virus coming from China. In fact the only be loose cuz. He had no control, he did what he could keep suspended travel from China. He got very aggressive as soon as he could and all that, but it was just too much too big to
you cannot judge him as a leader according to him and according to his followers, based on what happened here because of the way it's a once in a millennium thing that happened. She's, not going to go away and he's gonna run for president twenty twenty four and he continue to run. He will continue to be on Fox five times a week. He will continue. He will be the main like Jamie was against Obama, Trump will be against by and he will he would. The party will not proceed from him and the fight between Trump and the Democrats will continue through a Biden presidency. That's my scenario: possible, it's easy to predict that you he won't go away. Then the notion that will be on Fox everyday sounds really plausible. If not I believe that this has on their supply, so he, however, and its dependence on the size of the loss, I think, but the notion that he would be eager to read
engage in in the prospect of winning the party nomination or that the party would have an appetite for, that seems like a be harder to envision. If, if the country is of a move that it wants to move on that much, the party will be as well at the can I mean not did the Republican Party has not shown itself and glory of late. But we very is, I think, a much stronger tradition among Republicans if the recent When you lose you shuffle off, quite rightly you go away. You go, and maybe you appealing writer in the Post war right you go away. Reggie memoirs. You set up your nation, you D or think Trump. Definitely will fly those rules, but if he, if he be Sally defeated, I think I think I know, is right and compare that to look at me. That's not been the case with Democrats. Hilary is
continual annoyance. To democratic. To Democrats and has been, she keeps popping up and doing your thing in that way. Its trump has a model and Hilary lakes. You didn't go away quietly when she lost she, she kept causing trouble, so he might try it that I don't, I feel, for you will always leave the prospect that it would run their justice, girlies, lottery and artillery has done the same thing, but even she get shut down. I've seen a lot of media plus long awaited tv set his chin, everything I mean at which you know it: aid to counter the terrible, fake news and be able to keep his his political prospects alive. In the way John says, I'm telling you until you, because if, if, if the, if he believes, and if his
people believe and if the forty two forty three percent of the people who vote for him and laid out a minimum believe that he lost because of a freak of nature the idea that that loss is meaning in the way that other losses are will not attain I mean lost, lasted nineteen eighty Jimmy Carter loss. Ninety, maybe because his watch. He said there was an inordinate fear of communism and then the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. He you know let the Shaw be ousted in there. I didn't do anything to help the Shaw when the revolution came, and then Americans were taken hostage in IRAN his administration staged a rescue attempt and it failed. There were all these active measures and active things that happened, that that completely disk credited him as a leader and his presidency and as I said, that won't be the case with Trump
under the scenario that I lay out. While it won't be incumbent on Republicans and twenty twenty three twenty twenty four who are running against him to stand down, you have to have just like Josh and Tom Cotton and Nicky Hayley and all of them, who I this position to basically not avoid making the argument against trumps presidency- and I don't see that happening unless he runs uncontested- I'm he's just simply not gonna be the case. They will have to make the argument against him go well. That. People thought that people are gonna, have to do that during his presidency. Also, and look out look how the people, who did that in the Republican Party fared right. Look at Bob Porker! Look at Dublin, Jeff Lake. I mean it was not. It was not. I I'm just saying his power, maybe undiminished, particularly if he is willing to say outrageous things about Biden than the and the that will be. You know why, catnip to his father,
remember how revivifying it was for Republic depressed Republicans in two thousand and nine to have Cheney come out and talk about oh bomber. As a you know, a bomb as feckless this Obama's bad foreign policy choices. What how a bottle was going to lead us to do in Iraq when we had had when he had been handed a victory in Iraq. Stuff like that, in a very depressed moment, Jamie who had no political future like through national lifeline to a lot of people. Now he wasn't running for off, Sir anything and it didn't, I'm just saying like there's a there is there is a tradition that Trump himself could fall. And- and I utter anyway- so you I disagree with me, but I'm I'm right in your own. I don't. I don't really disagree. Ok, egg! Doesn't so it's too one too.
That's what I'm saying there are. There ought to be amended in the sky for for the pre virus trump years among yet finally has warned that unemployment, yeah that'd economy was rocking now they waved their boom. The likes of which we ve never slowly and then this and then this thing came chinese lab- and you know I'm just anyway, so so thank everybody, affordable, thing to this says. If here listening to this, has special package will be back on Monday. With the ordinary everyday broadcasts with I've been joined by our friend Andrew Ferguson, so Until then work, I proceed. Rosen every Walden harassment, I'm John Pub Words kicked the camel burn.
Transcript generated on 2020-08-04.