Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily Podcast today's Wednesday, the summer second, twenty twenty, I'm John Paul, currency. Editor commentary magazine encouraging you to go to commentary magazine got come to me just one of the highlights of our December issue. P. J works article sham Alot, a long salmon of a new biography of John F Kennedy. This piece is ambrosia and Nectar mixed together one of the most delicious stews that we have ever presented.

to the reading public, so go to commentary magazine dot com where you can subscribe, you'll get our daily content. You can help support this podcast. You can read our magazine, you can get our magazine in your mailbox at home commentary amazing that come you know you should do it. go. Do it thanks very much with me as always, executive editor, I bring all hype. I jump I'll see you editor no Rossman high. Now off. I John an Senora Christine rose high, Christine agent, Hey Chris. Even so President elect Biden gave an interview to the New York Times, Thomas Friedman, which is so for many reasons, not least of which a Friedman actually talked somebody in interviewed somebody who is not a cab driver for a saudi prince or Sadie Prince who was working as a cabdriver. So what did the President elect

well, a couple serve the top line, take a ways. One is that he's trying his half weirdly carotid at the America for Rhetoric and is trying to kind of given new spin on that. Second, and we ve all long suspected with Trump exiting the stage. The need for a new republican villain will be played by special guess, STAR Mitch Mcconnell. So there was a lot of attempts to bill, a fine Mcconnell as the worst Republican ever another trump will no longer be able to wear that crown. But the thing that struck me and the thing I think, does not bode well for the boy to administration was on the issue of how to engage all the people who did vote for Donald Trump Friedman asked in a kind of roundabout way binds response but soon to resort to the platitude that worked for him and for a couple of other candidates during the democratic primaries were to start talking about rural voters and dignity. So, whenever the trump style, though,

here comes up, did Joe Biden. He certainly not really about dignity, but how my dad used to pack a lunch and say a man needs dignity, indignantly dignity, dignity, courses that there too, problems with this and they ve been a problem for him since the primary he mistake, dignity and respect. He kind of you them interchangeably when they really not interchangeable terms, and it ends up coming across both condescending and ineffective. At the same time, if you're someone will end as a practical matter when pushed on it by Friedman, binding, talk, start talking about expanding Obamacare. This is with a moral voter needs, is an expansion of Obamacare, so somehow you ass. Those can be built in the non get jobs there. The condescension was vast, the solution was inexplicable and it didn't addressed the primary cause here, which is the real for this polarization in the first place- and that is a lot of what we are talking about. Yes, shaken the elite attitude towards people who aren't like that,

So I worry a little bit going forward how that's gonna play out as both as a rhetorical matter and a policy matter for the binding ministration, and I had to see him either have as advisers, potential cabinet appointees. Anyone who can speak to that population. So that was that that was the thing that struck me. The most had the interview good point as even the formulation, the idea that we need to treat this group with dignity, services, publishes them as Something other something else that that is apart from us that we need to recognise them. It is, it is ITALY, it's it's. A war your polarizing way to look at a huge swathes of the country I mean if it has a quality. You know it was the you know the great mistake that Barack Obama made him too an that ended up being the greater mistake of Hillary Clinton, Maiden twenty twelve,

it was. You know she did the deplorable thing right now. He did the better clinkers thing it up when I was a private fun. Rather, remark was leaked. You know where he said. You know these people who don't vote for us there clinging to their guns and their religion. And the purpose of saying it was not too was to explain them like he was his mother, a cultural anthropologist going through the wilds of Yahoo territory, spotting the mysterious white snark, an m and exclaiming as to its plumage. You know it's a. It was a server fastening. So. This is that this is a tendency. on laughter, sir? Among the liberal left, as as the parties have become in a regionally and kind of

describe it serve or urban rural, poor polarized to say: look you gotta understand these people like I know you hate them, but don't hate them on the condescension from binding is particularly acute when I hear it because he runs on an he runs on kind of. I was when you, I'm just like you. I was why was not raised with wealth and privilege and now look at me right assist, there's a kind of Why aren't you at this level of achievement? The it's it's weird thing and the other thing is it a huge missed opportunity to talk about things like self for life, it's entrepreneurship, community, the kinds of things that actually people go to rural areas. If they're not from there to find it and a way of accomplishing thing both in the in the sort of economic role and in the civic, Rome that don't require the government. constantly pandering to them or giving them hand ass her that's worth things, so I think that whole rhetoric of theirs

opportunity for him to bring people together by saying, look weight with that. If anything, the pandemic has shown us that there there isn't it for that kind of ingenuity, self reliance and then to talk about how we all can reach that, depending on what skills that we bring to the table, but he just completely wept on that one. and he pointed out that entirely disease, your attach in abstract terms, like dignity and hope and all the stuff that the democratically doing for twelve years will know it. So if we look at this

when buying this talking about dignity in this way or some isolating the population of voters who hate him, or you know, hate, Democrats or whatever and say no now, we really need to treated with dignity. Is that code for we're trying to figure out a way to make too to provide them with the sorts of things that will encourage their dependency on us and where they will give us credit for figuring out ways to give them things so that they will feel beholden to us or feel grateful to us for giving them the things that make them dependent on us. Maybe I think it's probably gonna sound a little cynical, but I do think that's part of what Donald Trump was offering in twenty. Sixteen was a

a compassionate conservatism without the compassion it was just ass. It was that kind of much more active on beneficence government that did was not afraid of handouts and was not afraid to subsidize. did you once there was some that are regarded as particularly either deserving or important politically, but it wasn't. It was absent. Any kind of condescension, which is what your him from Joe Biden it wasn't it wasn't empathy. It was aggression. It was great thence it was pay back and that's a sort of thing that resonated, I withdrew this constituency. I believe, in my view, towards true movement, and why? Even if you off

the precise sing policies absent that tonal aggression. That was a sort of indicative of known done, trumps movement. I don't think you'll have the same appeal. Will I'm in the interesting thing by terms this is so we alluded to yesterday? Is that while he offered this heap, he presented? This is an opportunity, writer, compassionate conservatism, without the compassion, what ended up there was a rising tide and ended up lifting all boats. We talked about this year, increase in households, you no income. The first sustain the increase in household income in this century for people in every quintal, but particularly in the in the in the lower to quintals and and that done through conventional republican means. As far as we know, we know first aid reserve deregulation, tax, cutting the release of animal spirits, because people were people in

those were less fearful of the heavy hand of democratic, centralized government and there was a real response in the surf macro economy? The things that Trump promised, which were like I'm not going to cut your social scam, not going to cut your medic, I mean he didn't, obviously not that anybody would have, but but but in the end come what he delivered was what Eddie was what any republic in administration some sense what would have delivered economically? To some extent? That's a generalised extent, except for the terrorists are more particular extent right. There was industrial policy in the form of tariffs which were protective of domestic industries. not on Republican per se from Wanna. Go back to George W Bush is tired tariffs, which were a spectacular disaster, but nevertheless, in an effort to protect certain industries domestically, which is

Joe Biden talked about a man interview very specifically, and also on farmers subsidies for rum for agriculture. None of it, she could say you could call Portugal the conservative, you might call a Republican, but those are two distinct that round. Well, I didn't, I think, the the gap forbidden and rural Americans is unbridgable, because what knows describe means is basically that Trump spoke for a large number of and Biden cannot do that bigoted, regardless what whatever its policies are in the policies of the talk about in the treatment view will amount to a kind of he hopes for a kind of protection payment. You you, no fees from gives them these things. They want. They want they. You Tino road shoppers doorstep, but regardless of that, he can

Speak for them has been. The Democrats have to speak in the language and that the rhetoric of coastal identity, terrorism, and that is the stuff that that turns those voters stomachs right. Well, I think that that's the interesting up a political question. going forward. So there's all this talk about. Why did trump do better among hispanic voters right hand?

experience and says southern Florida were along the Rio Grande Valley, not by the way that he d better among hispanic voters then say: George W Bush didn't two thousand fork is in fact pushed did better, and so this is that there is a kind of weird fantasy going on on the right where, where, where trumpets you now creating a new multi ethnic coalition? Well, Vienna Bushed got thirty somewhere between thirty five and forty percent of hispanic vote in two thousand, for which is better than trumped dead. So other there's a silliness at work here in that regard. But what you could say in that circumstances, to the extent that you have a spanish reserve, striving striving to the middle class hispanic voters who liked trumps message

and like the increase in income and all of that, it's that he delivered for them, or maybe they thought that he delivered for them, and so they went for him and that is binds. That is ultimately Biden challenge in expanding the democratic footprint. If he can do so or be no doing better, for which is he's got a life is gonna get better for people over the next four years I mean in the end. That is what presidencies are about. Trump ended up running for re election a terrible year, were terrible. Things happened and you know he. He did he did better them. A lot of people thought that he might in some ways in which he did he got. A procedure was a baby. He gained a percentage point on himself from twenty. Sixteen. He got ten or eleven million more votes, while Biden got. You now appears like eighteen million more votes than Hillary Clinton did, so he did better by the better

But you know he he has. There was reason to think that he had delivered on hit a general promise to try to make life better for it out for for Americans and that's Bygones challenge here too, and then the question is: can the can the panoply of issues facing Biden cat? Will he be able to deliver on some of that, or will the identity and politics will the culture or of the left. We keep talking about the cultural run right. Will the obsession with cultural or on the left either blur that if it happens or or or become so transfixed to the democratic coalition that it's all that will matter and that they will therefore You know, for example, depending on house how data

they are to make huge changes. To effect you know, climate change, which will have a depressive economic effect. Despite this notion, that'll be fantastic because will create creating jobs. You know well, that was actually one another thing that I saw. missing element in this interview was another opportunity. Biden could have had to signal that he understood that, whatever the results at the top of the ticket downtown Republicans did much better than they were expected to do and what that will mean for whenever agenda. He does happen, particularly in foreign policy too, because a lot of that interviews about foreign policy, which we should probably thought about it move on me. I didn't really did not ignore all. He did his talk about Mcconnell obstructing covered relief, which isn't even true Nancy policy has been obstructed, didn't covered really. So there is no recognition of how the dynamic has shifted in Congress, which he will need to quality.

about how they love me. They're Mcconnell and I work together. They love me. I know it. I know it s, not enough given the numbers at the fact that the Democrats happen housing. you did reiterate the democratic opposition, which was that there needs to be a bail out for states associated with this next relief package, absent that there's, no movement that said democratic position, be it as it might buy, We can't really move on with my talking about. We need to make sure that we will not move on, but I need to take a break to talk to you about today's first sponsor the bonds and group. Look, I'm I'm. Let me just the images Tell it straight: ok, the vast majority of professional financial investment advice is awful. Most financial advisors are lazy, disengaged and uninterested in the real work than is required of proper least wording their clients assets. I mean I have it on good record there.

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policy. We were told that the last four years that America has been sacrificing all its interests in deference to Russia, and yet nobody seems to care anymore that we did all this, whereas the agenda on Russia anyway, I digress the IRAN's nuclear deal, but we have friends, notably the various do you I like who has been, and I've been willing to defer to us to an extent his judgment on this that Joe Biden has coffee added his desire to re enter the J C p away the urine nuclear deal with these understanding that it has to be predicated on full compliance by IRAN. We enter into compliance again. They enter and complete. Again, a number all in their own people like you that said you know, that's probably not gonna happen. It's just there's too there's there's two too much has happened in the interim for them to go back to the status quo. Twenty fifty. I think that that compliance, then goes right out the window and they need it to an end We got some evidence of that in this interview, because he didn't talk at all

Well, then, we should define compliance, define what you what the word compliance means here. Well, you're going back into my memory banks here, but it had a lot to do with the rich man apples and inspection regime, which the idea of inspectors in with the toughest inspection regime that has ever ever been conceived of, but it was full of holes at the time- and I am not talking about the inspections, suggests to me that they don't really care about the inspections. Rushing again, I'm going back in my memory banks here, but my understanding was that this was they had access to it, Eighteen declared nuclear sites, and the Terry sites. They were released, on foreign partners for satellite imagery. They didn't have access to places like portion and- and there were quite a few indications but there were nuclear stockpiles that we're not on offer to inspectors, and we found out. This is really operation. I think was play seventeen twenty eighteen then uncovered this cash clear documents that they had been maintaining this cash in order,

to restart this programme, much of which was only mothballed. You have this centrifuges in forego. That could have been to switch non like a light. Switch right under the regime itself was for us as a sieve, and that was the problem. People who said well ran is in full compliance with the arrangements. Leered deal what's your real problem with that. The real problem is that of compliance regime that you constructed was inadequate, that was the argument that was made by Randal opponents and continues to be the argument that that we make and at sea to me as though the predicate for just abandoning any sir about arraign are running. Compliance is well established. Women need when they needed to be found. Part so worrisome this part of the interview, because You have to remember how the deal was struck initially during the Obama administration, with John Kerry,

going to Vienna over and over again being turned down repeatedly by Tehran, because the dead. Tehran knew how desperate the Obama Ministration was for a deal, so the so called kept layering on goodies and making it easier and easier to get some food We even have to be the same version of the deal that American officials had indian, in their minds in their hands. Actually, there were separate pieces of paper. Flora carry kept going back, just get them to say something that resembled a yes to a deal, and the result was this. You know huge pilots of cash and just this you know which is and this terrible deal, which is wide critics of the bill, say with such a bad deal, because it was such a bad deal because we were far too desperate to get so.

the iranian know that the Obama Biden team is our pushover when it comes to this to get them back to a deal after this means and been with with Iranian, knowing the way the the team that will be involved. This is going to approaches it's going to be an even worse deal. We're going to see that again, but it's going to be worse because they Biden DVD by demonstration is going is going to come at them with this I'm sort of will. We now have to also make up to you. You know we have to. We have to make it easier on. You be as if the troubles of the last four years you face, we have with the only the only condition that I saw him impose was a desire to re, engage in negotiations in order to extend the time Lindsey original timeline at sunset after ten years. So we have to get back to a new sunset somewhere, often the distance, but also after that, after we ve got the nuclear, the altogether. Then we go back to the table

We talk about. You know the problem, these that are waging war on american soldiers all across the region and the you know, you're you're, intercontinental ballistic missile programme all that stuff will get to it later than the fact that that was an afterthought into binding. Is what struck me and on that portions? They, oh yeah, those proxies. What will do without it being a banks in the whole sunset provision, their sunset, their sunsets gonna, be a mushroom cloud like they really are, not thinking through wearing what. The iranian regime's mindset, is right out of the gate, absolutely right: they're gonna, to really Sweden the deal, and it was already way too sweet. So it's it is. Worrisome, Anne and no mention of Israel in their. As far as I recall, not a single mention of Israel will what what there was one mention and it was to react to include Israel, regional partners like Saudi Arabia anyway in these in these negotiations. However, that would work here. I don't think you mentioned Israel.

Do you remember the sounding out right now? Nobody says IRAN, the United States, Russia, China, Britain, France, Germany, the European Union and Saudi Arabia and the amount of Arab Emirates, my brain Sheldon, Israel as a routine regional ass. It should have been. There was not yet exactly so and then and then there's China and, interestingly enough, he says he is not going to lift or he is going to respect the Chinese to continue to abide by the deal that they struck with the trumpet restoration, serve spend two hundred billion dollars in the United States by the end of next year. Spending two hundred and dead two hundred billion dollars That was the right approach to China yeah, exactly which you know is interesting, as as as I guess, Christine's you started with. There is an

The creation of by American America first stuff in the rhetoric that he adopts here he wants. You know he needs things to be made here right, so he he there is a. There is a change in this. What they're not going to go? with internationalism, open internationalism, except in the sense that we need to work with our allies and partners right. He is basically saying, you know. We need things to be made in the United States and I'm am looking for the quote here. As were speaking, I apologise, but yeah. But you know we need to get our allies on the same page, but I'm not. Making immediate move. The same applies to the terrorists and

You say you are talking about stealing about their stealing intellectual property. I one make sure we're gonna fight like held by investing in America, first energy biotech advanced materials, em and a I I'm going to enter any new trade agreement with anybody until we have made major investments here at home, in our workers and in education. And what strikes me about this and him using this rhetoric is. This is the lesson of twenty sixteen to the Democrats right, which is that the the Pacific Trade Agreement and trade agreements in general killed them if they killed them in the upper Midwest. They killed them and they are going to stay the hell away from them, and that's interesting though that really does fly in the face of a sir, type of liberalising

most from terrorism like what are they gonna? Do if they're not going to negotiate trade agreements, but it's it's window dressing right, so he stocking its administration with people who still believe in them agreements and who still want to pursue that right, but he's talking in the language of where now the Labour Party, yet like we have were building this. Labour coalition is the way they introduce JANET Yellin of all people. I mean they're talking about themselves as if like we're the power the working man we care about all these things, America, first pseudo, signalling to their twenty. Sixteen lessons learned message: we care But there is no way that the people that they are putting in power to implement policies are gonna. Do those there are definitely headed back in the direction that we saw under the Clinton, Slash Obama International, trade years. As far as I can tell him, I'm rotten- I I mean they're not talking that way, but they should be one of the things that both pole political coalitions, don't seem to have really internalized over the course of the trunk era. Is these spectacular?

the change in american opinion when it comes to foreign trade over the course of the Trump era, from actually over the course of the last The year is beginning in about twenty. Twelve trade was viewed modestly, negatively a threat to the economy by most people. Today, only eighteen percent of people according to gallop in the family, Mary said the same. Eighty percent of Americans viewed foreign trade as equal opportunity for economic growth. Through increased. U S, exports Donald Trump has had a profoundly good effect on how people view foreign trade, open trade, deals and neither political coalition is talking like that they haven't caught up with public sentiment. Well, that's very Interesting point. May I really know what's what to make of it, accept that, when, when a Democrat talks about the dangers of trade buying American, that as a sop to the labour unions, when republicans talk about it, it's a sop to a certain type of neo, isolationism and and at that

that's your favorite analogy. That's Platos Cave run their put their beholden to a political coalition, that Donald Trump put together and they're afraid of what on the other side of that, because its unknown, let not really unknown. It's the status quo ante. Absolutely. Ok, So let me take another break and talk to about our second sponsor today, Gabby Insurance, you know We are probably overpaying on carbon home insurance, write em into cheery loved to save money, but is spending hours on your own shopping for a lower rate. To maybe save a few bucks worth it, probably not so do what so many people have done: a noose Gabby, that's J,

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Tom, Slash commentary, that's g a b, I dotcom, Slash commentary, Gabby dot com, slash commentary so the most intriguing and potentially horrifying story of the last couple of months surf floated out last night with news that a judge had unsealed a mud mostly were Dac, did document that suggested that an investigation was going on at the Department of Justice into an offer of a bride for pardon scheme in the federal prison system? that a prisoner using a middle man went to the White House to plead for a party it pardon possibly in o in in promises of campaign contribution. since an that's all we know, and we have, for example, is: are we

No any more than that accept that one of the reasons that. it was unsealed. Is that perhaps it was lawyer lawyer lawyer, climb privilege did not work in this case, because there was a third party involved some kind of a middle man who must have gone to the White House with the offer that then triggered the investigation. Now it's important to note that when we look at this that somebody told them that it was happening. That could be that whoever was approached with the offerings and we went to the Justice Department, not that you know they were like. Oh yeah, give us the money. You know all of that. What did the just department, said that no government official is the target of investing of the investigation right exactly sir,

In this case, what that means is that there was some kind of offer proffered, and somebody did the right thing. So it's less it's less thrilling and exciting. Then, obviously, the the that, for the first The fact of seeing this was oh, my god, someone selling pardons at the White House, particularly with all this panic that trumps, gonna pardon every basic part. Certainly party himself is gonna part rubies, gonna pardon you know, Gilad Maxwell he's got a pardon everybody. You know everybody on Bertha. Why out the door? You know he may or may not end, and that's just Tito terrible that killed he'll. Do that kind of thing is you have nobody has ever pardon bad people before, like say, Mark rare, yes, thank you haven't well, that was also what what I am Roger Click by the way. Roger Clinton Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother.

and it wasn't just a pardon and when Clinton left office, there was a huge scandal not just about the market pardon which I will save to the democratic credit. There's a lot of bipartisan discussed with that, but he and Hilary received massive numbers of gifts and kindly money. You know things that, like covering granted free base space, Europe all kind the really shady stuff they then have to disavow, and you know than their foundation with they. Basically just you know funnel everything through the foundation that it was released it was really unseemly in a way that I think people have have forgotten and the rage again on the right about if, if this is indeed what the problem administration is doing should be just as vehement is as those of us who condemned Well yet, if it happens, and how does it happens right? Ok, I am fascinated by the Pardon story because it gives me a chance to remind people of one of the most interesting stuff

praise transitional stories of American, a modern american political history at totally forgotten story out of Tennessee in the nineteen Seventys, when a remarkable hard scrabble woman named Marie were Johnny, who was a democratic activists single mother of three in her late twenties are managed, after being an be an abuse of marriage to get herself an education,

ah, I became a kind of democratic party activists around Nashville around Vanderbilt and got yourself a job in the in the Bureau of the sort of criminal justice system in Tennessee on dealing with the pardon process, a cut of patronage job and she discovered there that pardons were being sold, that she noticed that a lot of wealthy white people, arrested for all kinds of white collar things and drug use of drugs, whatever we're gonna getting off or getting pardoned or getting released, and she went to her superiors and said what's going on now, I need to point this out to you and they said, shut up, go back to your desk and sit down.

Be quiet and she was a very as as certain types of whistleblowers really are. She was a very ordinary person who had been through a lot in her life, and she wasn't like this. She wasn't gonna this got her hackles up and eventually she brought down the governor of Tennessee re Blandin, who was a server democratic, gland hat glad handing I'm a crap three senior officials in his administration were indicted. Two of them were convicted for the selling of pardons, I think was like fifty three pardons, and blame, decided not to run for reelection because for obvious reasons and then, as a kind of giant middle finger to everybody, pardoned dozens of people in his last announced his intention to pardon dozens of people in his last days.

This, and the state legislature moved up the a duration of incoming governor Lamar Alexander now this year retiring effort from from the? U S Senate, so that these pardons could not be effective because they they were sort in the works and he had to observe sign off on them or whatever blackened did and they moved up. They basic moved up the date on which our was can be sworn in, so that the pardons could not be effective, waited. And then three years later, black went to jail for having sold Some other government emolument four for four for a bribe, the most interesting long, the caught the interesting comic thing that happened here

comic at all, but serve interesting is that a movie was made out of this with Sissy Spacek called Marie came out, one thousand nine hundred and eighty five, it's a pretty good movie, but it's largely forgotten. Now, and the last thing the movie is this trial. She sued parts personally sued blame. and she needed a lawyer to represent her and, of course, who would want to sue the governor- and you know like a state like Tennessee, small town, Nashville, a small town in this sense of people that wouldn't want to get crosswise to the governor, and so she needed a lawyer to represent her and she found one, and his name was Fred, Dalton, Thompson, Fred Thompson who had been on aid to Howard Baker, the Senator from Tennessee and the minority Council on the on the

and the sand Watergate Committee AWE and he was then had to. He was like a guy who hung out a shingle in in in in national trying to make his way as a successful lawyer, and he took Marie were Johnny's case on and they won, and so the lesser evil is about Fred Thompsons, the trial that he ran and are they casting the movie in Nashville and they had all these local actors come in to you now, audition. and they didn't like any of em and lend stall master. The casting director turns to Thomson and says: do you wanna? Do you want audition like? Why? Don't you you know? What are you? What did you read for the part just get em an M M and Tom

said? Why did I get? Why not just give it? You know any said? Okay, so let me take a walk around the block get my head together, so he walks around the block and he comes back Read the scene with sissies basic and his car, to play himself in the movie and, of course, then becomes one of the foremost character actors in hall. Would on four October no way out playing basically a variety of government officials all of this, and it is Fred Thompson's fame as a as an actor that leads to him ending up being elected to the Senate from Tennis

be after he was one of the co stars on law and order as the as the district attorney, and that is the story of the career Fred Thomson, all out of because re Black was a corrupt glad. Handing over time southern Democrat like one of the last you know he was one of the last oh, hi me down home corn poem, you know machine, you now and then Why why? Why do you do? Why do you support? Because you can? Why, wouldn't you sell a pardon everybody did it, he did it. Everyone else did it, and

and the transition from Latin to Alexander them was also the birth of the new south. As is the famous, you know serve where Nashville Tennessee became a state where they became friendly to investment, Saturn open a plant, their Federal Express started there, and all of that- and that's that, that's that pardon story, and I love that story Thompson. I I wrote a profile of Thomson, the early Ninetys for S wire that ended up plan not getting published gossip wisps. Act between between others, but, but it was interesting, has Thomson said to me: people ask me had become a character actor like your. How do I have a career like yours and he said well, here's what you do. I stand the middle of a field and see if you can get hit by lightning, because that's what happened to me, I was let you know is viable

forty one years old, you know like how did it happen? It happen because it was a total fluke. Freak of nature. So that is my dad is my pardon story anyway. Does anybody have anything interesting say about the pardons? Well, we do the mystery, it's a mystery. Persant right, we ve all been guessing who it is and does anybody and I thought it would be useless Maxwell but give it up So here's what we know because of that because of the reductions we know, because the name is rejected significantly during the document, whoever that whoever the the the felon is that its five or six. The name is five or six characters long. You could serve tell that from the length of the black mark, so Campi Gilan Maxwell as MAX was too long a name, and then I then thought

what if it's bill. Cosby, Frank, as I was saying like who, why would you like that, but he's not in a federal prison, so its title Cosby, then people thought there was a a certain guy was about to go to jail at the finance. It was a bribery reserve, liquor, a trumpet financier type, but he s gone to Jelly at an end. Some of this is in material that came out of the federal bureau prisons, which means that whoever whoever is the attempted bribery theoretically is in the federal prison system right now and Cosby is of a state prison in Pennsylvania. So might might might might my fantasy did not come true. I had a whole thing. It was like what, if Kim Kardashian was the one who was proof

bring the message you know about this well, well, it's it's gonna be juicy who web it would be juicy, whoever it is because it someone with connections and money. You know it. So it's not yet sat up. You know random, everyday, prisoner and rubber that you know the federal prison system is not it's not like. There are tens of millions of people in the private federal prison system or with money, you held their market that many actually so a well. What what? What? What? What is it what is there to be sad, except that I can just assume it's not a worthy percent right. Why worry birthday right? But the question is it despite the fact that the Justice Department has said that that they're, not targeting anyone in the government, would lead as it as is the

talk target of investigation? I wonder what sort of hysterics this is gonna go to unleash. Nonetheless, you know about right up. They ve got trot now. Look I mean it's interesting Khazar, because you are the President: the President's pardoning powers, absolute. The present is allowed to accept your monuments, you're not allowed to accept gifts in exchange for services, but, of course it's not clear what first of all trump didn't, do it or there's no way, as we say like there's, no, no, no federal official as a target, the investigation so clear what you can do to a president by the way

because the pardon power is absolute in the constitution in their neighbors, unqualified what you can do. As you can't adventure budget, it's mine, it's my understanding. I could be wrong, but I have a vague recollection of discussions about bribery in exchange, for it pardon being talked about the constitutional convention, rightly that attitudes and the Federalist papers, like very recently that that exchange despite having a motorway really afraid of that was that was the argument against the unlimited presidential pardon power, but that this goes so that this is a matter of of this one of these things that dates back to english common law that their needs, The idea was that the justice system is porous and that there needed to be a final appeal to the king, essentially writer. To basically say

that even through the jury process on twelve June, all this that all that stuff, that than in detestable injustice, could slip through There needed to be a one last chance to you now for someone not not not to essentially be put to death firm for four for a time. A crime. I don't think we really. We imagine getting mark rich out. You know- or you know something like that, but you know and their pardons, that I find that are very moral and noble, including a couple that, like the pardon of scooter levy, which is one of the ones that that that the trumpets down that was that was appropriate, Stewart was scooter. Living did not do what he was charged with doing and was convicted on them,

This is of something else, a kind of trumped up charge and he should not have been convicted and Bush should a pardon them and community ascends instead and trembled Somali pardon them, and I think that was a there was a noble thing to do, but I don't really think that that was whether what the found were we're thinking of in terms of the pardon power. Let me step and talked about our final sponsor today. Heads base you been hearing me talk about had space you now you ve probably tried meditation before, and maybe it work for year. Maybe a fella! You were doing it wrong, but if mental health, as part of your healthcare plan? You owe it to yourself to try head space, it's the app that its guided meditation, APP, a pocket sized guide to help you sleep Focus ACT be better and if you have ten minutes had space can change your life,

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increase focused by fourteen percent and only three weeks of use a show been shown to cut aggression to negative feedback by a whopping. Fifty seven percent had space dot com, slash commentary. This is the best deal out their head space, dot com, slash commentary code, word: commentary thanks to head space for sponsoring the commentary. Podcast are eight. So in our final discussion today we have many General William BAR becoming part of the deep state aid, while Noah Deep State bill bar. Can you believe it Yeah there was some. This is another fun one from the calm, the heck down files which have been building for the last couple of weeks, lotta, consternation win The Justice department took this issue on the notion that there would be voter fraud and now have

doesn't have the usual suspects road out beds in Washington person in your time speculating about how this was the citizen plot and, as you know, oh bar. This supreme example of a Trump Lloyd faced with no allegiance to the kind of patriotic deference. Are we act of somebody who occupies US position when it engage in some nefarious activity behind the scenes to adjust returned the election release established the predicate for some sort of insight. rex, canary sentiment among the people, and what does he do? It comes out yesterday and says now there were you: haven't you ever since of fraud that not evidence of fraud, sufficient overturning state level election result? So that's pay much over another, he gave you know the trembling a sort of a sop with the establishment of a special council. The german proverb is now going to be a special council which, while it lasted administration and make it much more difficult for four, that you'll find a minister.

cantered does all that and it is incumbent on all of us not to prejudge that, because, just like them, we're probe. It's probably gonna end up being far narrower in scope and suggests that there are looking into law enforcement in there was probably son, We already know about some untoward stuff that was done during the rush masturbation leading into the Mueller Pro by law enforcement and they're. Probably gonna find a lot of them are gonna find themselves. They got the wrong end of the special council. Prob but nevertheless it's probably not going to satisfy anybody who expect some sort of an earth shattering Relation to come out just like the Miller, probe didn't Nobody should reserve judgment because we don't know what's going to happen and everybody who prejudge as these, this has gone there phrase anyway. Nevertheless, not very narrow, moves, very the sort of thing really doesn't satisfying one who expected earthquakes out of the Justice Department, and so I look

forward. To all the humbled retrospectively on all these issues, assessments of how this was a major threat to the republic and we're gonna, get alot of people who are gonna be very, very, mortified by their pre judgments and they're going to say you may a callback opt out I'll do better next time right, I want to talk about the other shoe right, which is a trumpet oil Basically, turning on bar in a bill Mitchell who famous we said what was it that the ground game was in our hearts all the time and twenty sixteen, and that you know saying saying that tab I was like a wizard creature of the deep state am most appallingly, I think, Roger Stone. Who said he is the blocking tackle for the deep state. He said yes about Roger Stone, had his sentence, commuted by Bill BAR and and in a hearing you know,

That's the House Judiciary Committee. I believe I had a hearing in January at which Hank Johnson, the congressman from short, like went after bar when, after bars juggler on the grounds that stone stone Send should not have been, commuted and at arts we're going all out of you just about to say, but it didn't, but bar is the one who looked at the the site, sensing recommendations and said this is preposterous right. Yet he said flatly that he had acted independently was not. He was not working, he was not doing the president's bidding, he said quote. I agree. The president's friends don't deserve special breaks, but they also don't deserve to be we need more harshly than other people and sometimes that a difficult decision to make, especially when you know you're gonna be castigated for it and then, Johnson said. I know your story, but I'm asking my question bar said: I'm telling my story, that's what I'm here to do:

Johnson yelled at him and said you're carrying out trumps well and then bar said. Let me ask you: do you think it's fair for us sixty seven year old man to be sent to prison for seven to nine years. Gay so at a nationally televised hearing that ended up doing some damage to his reputation, bar hotly defended the commutation of star sentence, and what is a guess? Accessories does stone sense. And what does he get for it? He gets trashed by Roger Stone. Who was a piece of human garbage He is a piece of human garbage and an email for that alone for it out for from playing this game when he owes bar plenty. Just all he had to do was forbear, but he couldn't do it because he is a piece of whom garbage. That's all I got is not. Alone is not alone in the list of

garbage young excoriated egg? Ok, please, please, let us conclude with it other? I mean, maybe not as bad or maybe worse, I dont know go ahead, nice pretty bad gotTA, Donald Trump. First, national Security adviser general. Flynn who is treated abominably by law enforcement and has been exonerated duly infer the elegant the alleged crimes. He was accused of is nevertheless, a very bad person who exhibits terrible judgment. Who has always done so? Who has? told himself out to America's adversaries. Turkey, most notably an Russia, didn't play rules play fast and loose with the rules found himself in the other, the wrong end of several investigations as a result and is obsessive Lee Conspiratorial

two to appoint a mania and always has been so. What what did he do? Let's, let's right now, there was his name ex his name to an open letter calling very explicitly for the president to invoke whatever the hell. Limited martial law is think pretty much. Martial law seems a pre binary condition to me, but invoked that in order to have a new election, calling you election, that he would presumably he prevail in because he would suspend just about all aspect of rule of law in this country, young in their support? Those weird you know justifications for for this policy, but the bottom line is to execute a literal coup. I mean the kind everyone it's about you. This is a coup involved

Military is an extra legal process, that's exactly what he is calling for here. It's it's unpatriotic and unamerican, and is not the first time that he's been guilty of those two things. I agree completely. I think that the pardon of Flim going back to pardons was justified. either he was pursued for political reasons that he was sandbagged and railroaded an kind of put in a position where it had to plead guilty in order to spare his son, among other things, for doing absolutely nothing wrong, and we know from the in remarkable reporting of the oil slick in our magazine, among other places, that that the central charge against him, which was that he was that he had acted in a military

as fascist and talking to the russian ambassador and then lied about. It was simply not true in that, and that, in fact, a recommendation at the Justice Department approach prior to some other machinations was that they should drop the investigation into him in at the beginning of January and twenty seventeen. So that was a justified pardon, but yeah he's garb he's garbage and that's all, there is quite a few people on the right who have succumbed to the temptations, financial or otherwise to lend themselves to America's adversaries too bad mouth, the country, along the propaganda network. Aren T used to be called Russia today is now called Archie. Just so you know you know you don't know what the real source of this sort of thing is as the Kremlin funded institution and my plan was

such a part of that for quite a long time where he would lend himself to this to this organisation were goodbye now the Obama administration in the policies, the Obama ministration to advance a crow pro Kremlin narrative, and took a lot of money as a result of that and didn't disclose that money, which link, which was one of the first problems that people have of his being tat too, the serve as an essay among others, notably his undisclosed financial ties to Turkey as a consultant a broadly he's, not alone in that temptation. There's something on the right that that concern has allowed for anything out their stirs up. There's liberals on the network to like bill should cease to be in a mess and we seek items on that network. But there's plenty of conservatives and there the the whole temptation there seems to be that you just get to spouse, and really bad Mount the administration and whatever the administration happens to be even now you're doing here providing aid and comfort to

adversary of the United States. Ike. I find I completely unconscionable. I wouldn't go so far as to call it treason because it has nothing to do with military conflict. Nevertheless, it. Is this loyal yet was the soil with delicacy got fired? You got fired by Obama, he hated being fired, and so there therefore was over for him to then peddled his wares to Turkey and Russia, both of whom were antagonistic toward the United States and its also worth noting that one of the things that he was involved with in Turkey was an effort to convince too to talk people?

two repatriating a hostile critic of the turkish regime, the Clara Glenn, who lives in pencil, laying it to somehow extra somehow get him extricated from Pennsylvania and sent to Turkey, where, of course, he would be killed on the on the spot on grounds that he was somehow fomenting a coup against era one or be now or whatever because he was a critic, so that was that's really great, so other covering their heads and glory trumps. Some trumps most profound had ever you'd call them in their own supporters are more like some. Roy TRAIN, you know any man, you haven't management whatever, anyway it some it's it's it's it's really startling cell. With that, we will

bid. You a deal for another day and come back to you tomorrow for a Christine and now I'm John passwords gave the camel burning.