On the first COMMENTARY podcast of the week, Abe Greenwald and Noah Rothman explore with me the meaning of the Twitter war between the president and the retiring chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and what it portends for the potential crackup of the Republican Party. Then we descend into Hollywood Gomorrah with Harvey Weinstein and his sexual predation and the coverups thereto. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Podcast Day Views Columbus day Monday overnight, Twenty seventeen, I'm John path towards the editor of commentary, the seventy zero monthly of into actual analysis, political criticism and cold whole commentary from a conservative perspective. That was not exactly what we are ordinarily say, but it is a holiday join us commentary magazine dot com where we give you a few free reads and then asked you to subscribe. One thousand nine hundred and ninety five get to a digital subscription. Two thousand nine hundred and ninety five gets you and
Access observers, including our beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times here with me, is always a green waltzing, rather hollow Abe, hello, John and fresh from a afternoon outing at an apple orchard, with twenty five billion people, no arrangement are associated or high. Now, there's a lotta not now not so many apples into too many people. That's the October apple picking story here in the northeast. Well, while no, it was a labouring have fun. In his way, through the Apple Orchard, I blame Columbus by the way. If it was indeed as people's day blamed. Barnett one would show outwards out you're, safe, fair enough, I'll, get well so this weekend present United States as this is one decided to pick a bunch of fights on twitter and to create a couple
controversies out of things that were dying down as controversies. There was a tweet about how no and gives them credit for poorer further point. We go hurricane efforts. Seven. Then there was my pen, storming out of the forty Liners Indianapolis called scale. Because there was kneeling them all the other It seems that indicate that he went to the game and ordered a storm out and then of the big one Then there was saying that there is only one way to handle North Korea, but not saying what did his and then The big one was a series of tweets in which he personally attacked out to going or retiring Tennessee under Bob Corker, claiming that Corker begged him to endure seven. He said no here, said somewhere, though this weaken that he wished. Rex till her son was tougher. It was on twitter. Not I care who can even remember.
I believe that would be shortened, Ariane itself or any other right. So, of course you know what's going on this week, is that there is this big there. These there's big decision that has to be made about whether certified decertify, IRAN's compliance with the J C p away and There is also, as drop late last night aid as statement of principles on the part of the White House on how to handle the air. And had the negotiations over extent. The legal protections of the so called dreamers Oh, there is actually at, as well as the ongoing North Korea issue and a hurricane hitting Missis. Debbie ants things still being perilously bad importer Rico in the nation, still him out trying to heal after these mass shootings in LAS Vegas. So whether or not
country needed a fight between the present I'd, say: its end, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. It got one whether the country needed the president to be stirring the pot yet again over the two of the behaviour of the national football players who won taken need a protest, the poor treatment, unequal treatment of of african Americans by the police. We got it And the exhaustion factor continues where you just get up in the morning and wonder what new thing is: gonna happen that you're gonna have to serve live through for another six or seven hours, Noah the President in cork, or is it
interesting fight, because its now entirely unnecessary as far as one could help workers not running for reelection so, and it is largely thought that this is not a seat, that a democratic and probably win, so it will go to a Republican, even though Corcoran retiring. What's the what was the purpose of this had a low where it began with Trump this morning here yesterday right, yeah debt, so down said, something inflammatory, as is his want, and those things that Corker had heads had said something critical of him five two hundred and ten days earlier, where you said this thing like there are these three people who are keeping the world from chaos. Ordinarily, you would expect if you were going to counterpunch to counterpunch right away, but this was like Trump, let it snow. When students do and so for five or six days and then and then came out with his trying to draw up a bomb on porkers Halloween unaware when he heard it, he might not have heard it at the time of the event, and this come across it when he came across it whenever he
Since the watch cable news, because I don't know what comes across his desk now but this quarter thing is a little unique in so far as Bob Quarter, probably is the poster child for the republican parties, effort to come to terms with tunnel drum tortured, often fruitless but in effort nonetheless, that never ends. I was going through some old tweets from twenty sixteen of mine. Yesterday in and came across how it was a running gag that Bob Corker was you know, so routinely shocked and disappointed at very stand. Operating procedure from Donald Trump. Well, you have to do something: remedy, you're you're you're, establishing the wrong predicate here because the point is that he was one of the first mainstream Republicans to make his peace with the right of Trump was be the nominee and then you can kind of said, okay. Well, we all it's crazy to say that we can work with him and we can
work together and all that, which is why people thought okay well, he's doing this, because maybe he thinks he can become secretary of state in a trumpet. Duration. If there is one and also its indication that people in his state are clearly very favourably disposed towards Trump, and he doesn't want to get crosswise of them and then, after he did, that only after. He did that and told people to lay off at me. Now we can all come together on this. Would every time there was a trump controversy, would corker than a minute necessary to say, of course, have disappointed by this or, of course, of discipline it by cozier can, of course, I am disappointed by his reaction to this or, of course, I am disappointed that huh, horrified by the access. How are you too, but he was in a heap hidden. The president delivered a foreign policy speech which I thought was devoid of much foreign policy with a statement of pretty vague print, balls and then Corker would lend gravitas and say this. The guy who's evolving. This is the
just somebody that proper president, whose learner pipe potential president, whose learning the gravity of job- and would you verify this- is a guy with foreign policy jobs as the head of the foreign policy of foreign relations Committee in the Senate. So when he says that the that Donald Trump learning foreign policy, its taken pretty seriously. It's obvious now he didn't they mean any of it was all a political calculation. Or that weren't baby he did. Who now let me that's pilot is like that can possibly be because, like you say, he's not running for reelection now he's unfettered, he doesn't have political convictions appalled. So I'm inclined to think that this is the real Bob Corker that other guy, with some sort of a confection gothic, that's probably tribute But what s interesting is that their sort of no clever enough way to try to make peace with Trump ISM. If you, if it's not truly in your you know you should have try all these kind of translations and it's gonna bite you one way or the other you gonna, you gonna go all in for you a to foreign for him,
and get burned or you're going to register your your discomfort with something he does and get in get burned by him. If there's deuce you just can't, you can't hang on he's like a bucking, bucking bronco. Well, so Corker, who is not a particularly imaginative politician as a politician who is more get along to go along, I and we have got into if we want to the whole controversy surrounding his handling of the IRAN deal and whether or not it was a betrayal of all principles, racial powers nor let or whether he did the best he could. In fact, you could say if in fact, Humpty certifies this week that porkers they range from the court made has paid off fruit that it that he did create the conditions under which there would be aware that the deal could be revisited. For one misbehaves, but nonetheless he's not a particularly imaginative guys, not an interesting. He doesn't have all that much. That's impressive
were powerful to say or even remotely controversial Tom cotton. The centre for markets has obviously much more interesting on foreign policy so marker Rubio. So for that matter is TED Cruises, just a kind of invention. All conservative Republican with did out nothing and that no real juice to rights Oh point is that he looked a trumpet. Does that the term phenomenon and thought okay well, look. This is that this is where we are now. This is where the party is, and so, if we, if we embrace them- or we find a way to embrace him, we can have some influence on him in Monterrey them and trumpet. They have meetings with senators and congressmen during twenty fifty of twenty six, in which he said look I'm going to follow your lead like a now? I want to win. I want to do well, and you know we need to work together and all of that and they believed him some of them, some of them didn't the thing that I find
early questionable or not morally questionable, gradualism trump, so corker them in a levies, the bomb legs. Where's the boom on. From the New York Times last night, what he actually set rights. He basically said every senator out. We were first, he said in a tweet that the white houses and adult daycare centers had turned into a they'll. Take your centre which is the only clever interesting thing, is ever said: the Senator I mean that says. I really mean that is crazy. Criticism, like Bob Corker, is uniquely and interesting speaker so that was a sort of interesting jolt there, it's a big thing, because it it's a hit, it's too but it is not only an adult daycare centre was somebody had mister, If ever I saw, the whole thing was a pretty good lie makes you wonder who wrote it, but anyway, if we go on from there, He then given area your times later in the day in which he said that you know their arm
major issues. Every senator knows that every everyone in the case- and it knows that there are managerial issues in that trunk can't be trusted, and there you know we're we're trying to prevent world WAR three from happening here and every day is it is an effort to contain the president were rising term contain, as is the Soviet Union rightly so that Lebanon, we mean an ex telegram rights over the man's a bright. So it's fair to say that no, no. Such an interview was ever been given about a president by a member of his own party ever before in the history of mankind, so there are two interesting aspects of this, one of which is that quarters. Rage and anger has to be taken into consideration. The fact that he was personally assaulted by Trump and the difference.
Between not saying it on Saturday and then saying and on Sunday as the Trump assaulted him so his version of Rebecca, say everybody hates Trump. Everyone does everyone's words world. Where three go. Ask other people they'll tell you that's necessarily the greatest mark of political courage ever to be to get out basically fire back. Only when you're fired on or to make an art make make a claim that the president is, you know, is uniquely ill suited to his job, just because he was mean to you like that's. I also also part of the job of supposedly containing the president MR sort of top down hysteria to suddenly come up to suddenly come out and say a blood flow things, sky high. I was like that. That's not that's! That's not that's, not very courage, and I was
sentencing part of that in our view, because he had said he repeated his contention. Why bless explicitly this time that the three the triumvirate of containers tillers in Kelly and matters, are the only thing standing between us in an utter chaos as the fastest way to alienate them president and imperil their position right right. Would you have to know, and if he doesn't know, then what kind of strategies apple no you don't programme, and we don't we don't. Nobody knows what we are now, what any of them it thinks is good or bad strategy. It is that the lowering of the tone of american politics now get to this kind of a way in which trumps strips strips people of their of of the of the varnish shore of let's say, of the of the civility that decorum than american politics require
and then forces people into the sandbox with him like a marker Rubio during the campaign who, I think perfectly justifiably went at Trump. The weight trump goes at other people and then got hammered for it and I You know, I think I don't know why you have to do to laterally disarm if you're being attacked in a certain way or if everybody else is being attacked in that way. But apparently Rubio himself fought the better of it and Corker is now attempting the same sort of thing then damage and Sean Day was so the federalist last night then scornfully pointed out in their view that Corker only quick. As you know, when a primary and that's why he did it, and this is all just nonsense on his part and he should go away and shut up, but I don't think that's right. No up, maybe, as I recall,
hey, maybe you can help me with this. So as I recall, the story was that there was a tea party challenger. They mark Green, who announced his intention to print to two primary corker Next year and that Corker sickly decided not to run again, not necessarily because he thought he was going to lose. Certainly other people are entering the primary from the middle of the Party like Mart Represent of Marsha Blackburn, who is not a screamingly raging member of the far right of the Republican Party, because they think they can win but because he may have looked at it and said look I don't want to spend your fighting a tea party guy that this is the fund from I don't like being centre aimed more at Chris Socks, everybody they live in it now right. Nobody likes the Senate were in that the logic I'm sorry in a second, but though the logic of this sort of falls apart. When you consider the fact that we do not disagree with with benninschein there,
there was apparently a lot of money that got dropped in to this. This tea party, challengers, banking, and so he was going to be a virus was right after let was the day after that they all Roy, more beat shore. Luther strange in the album primary nothing Corker looked at it looked at this and said I don't need this in my life, but they apply the same logic to Jeff. Flake, who is in a tough Mary who may lose his primary and who might lose the general living? And if he be survives, the primary, but he's bowing out, as does Bob Corker dead and he's. Speaking as one who is being very unfair to Jeff flakes. You can really have an eye with ways or ways. Ok, flake is the counter. Ok, let's get you to saying you can't have it both ways. It say there is one one or the other. It can't be both flakes. Inconsistent since September of twenty fifteen? In his view, that Trump was a threat to conservative principles and the Republican Party and the first fight that trust.
Had with a senator in Washington in the course of a meeting when he came to Washington and meet the republican senators was with flake flake said I don't like the way you're behaving, and he said I hope you lose your I hope you lose next year and flakes said I'm not up for reelection. Next year, you're, the one who's up for election, not me so flakes starts. Flake has been an anti trump voice from the Gatt go and he is suffering for it. Obviously, only publish this book conscience of conservative earlier this year about his problems with what Trump has been doing to the party he is facing a very serious threat. He has a terrible approval rating in the state and a lot of what the people like bandages the federalists are doing, is kind of trying to force flake into retiring there, like theirs
point you're running? Why are you running or not going to run lol sociable things? I can run Henry Holt and things is not going to run people think of no one knows what it's like and run or not run. This is, as the case may be, but he has been totally consistent. It is this is where the Corker thing the rubber it's the right now we as people who have been voicing anti trump opinions from the time the Trump. Emerge a bit, I wanna like say, oh well, where were you Bob Corker? Now your rocks as gourd? So it's fine for you, but you know they that if you could have had a little more humility to it in the fact that in our observers I said senatorial, so I will more passed her knee Mahler to it. Like look, I said that we could work with Trump I've been spending a year and a half trying to work. You can't work with him. It can't be done, and I was wrong
you don't have to say I was wrong, but you can say you now look efforts. Efforts have been made to try. Five make me come up with a modus vivendi have been to have are doomed to failure I mean I know through ruefully. I know this better than most people. This is disorder, scary. Haunting precedent of this is that it's it's we even You're, not necessarily gonna lose if you dont want to fight because of the ugliness involved, that's kind of loose by other means, and if it comes down to look What what are you? What are you in the Senate for if, if you, if you, if you dont, want, if you only want the fights when their easy and answer, if you know you'd manageable, then than Trump ISM does wash over everything. That is the part that is being remain right before our eyes, its head, so that a party that does not use its battles, that's that fights for the sake of fighting and that, when it doesn't fight, is declared to be cowardly, urge. You know what happened.
Well, so Steve banners Boon reading over the last five or six days is actively recruiting candidates in ever for four primary Republicans in every seed that Republicans have safe seem to have safe harbour trying to Barroso Doktor John Barroso, the centre for my arming. He is trying to encourage Eric Prince the founder black water, the brother, a Betsy divorce, two primary him in Wyoming and in a whole, ah prince, lives in Michigan. So that's interesting. There's a primary potential primary challenge to Roger Wicker in Mississippi. There's a potential all these, places where it's like. Ok, Republicans win and Democrats can possibly win the Senate This is an interesting strategy because, if you primary them and you get some lunatic who wins Yo Enough Classic Christy Don all situation. You made
Maybe you open a space for Democrats to win, and you know they only need three Senate seats to take over the Senate has not yet I adding nipple. I think it's, but it's part of the destructive serve waited to banish the world's better a Democrat than the wrong Republican I'll. Absolutely, but that's a discard ban in his ache as creature at all. You know, you could almost say is a creation at this point of the president at he would He was not occupying the space that he occupied before he became the chief strategies for the Trump campaign in an eventually for the White House, and oh he's orchestrating a campaign to undermine an upturn, the Republican Senate and House majorities Roy make them along whatever lindsays decent vision, for them is an existential threat to Republicans in the house, and it is coming from the White House and it's about time. They all looked at it as the excess. Threat. It was Tom, Corker, Tumblr, blog workers, what they need to be saying what they need to at least more knowledge or try a ban and are right there.
Vanguard of the future there. Making the party in their own image you're out of their right got the rage against that now. But ok, I'm just saying that I am making the devil's advocate argument the report. In Party that Ronald Reagan impressive. I love and nineteen. Eighty was a on was in Washington a a moderate, too conservative party and after eight years it had moved sharply to the right bunch. People were voted out, low whiter in Connecticut, who lost to a Democrat, Joe Liebermann, but it was hot was a dangerous. What you know basically was just a: it was a that was what he was the original rhino. He was somebody who would the Democrats used as republican cover claiming falsely Things were bipartisan. Charles Matthias, a very liberal senator from.
Maryland they were all gone, all those guys and then the party itself moved shifted to the right as a gain more power. Now I dont think that Trump and ban and Tromp has really any really vision here and Bannon has a more destructive, in the sense them a sense of building new for a new reality, but none, last. That is part of. What's going on here, so rush Limbaugh said the other day that banning was do it was was the republican party. Now now that is obviously barons goal gives him alive. A thought. He would claim that recruiting primary challengers against sitting Republicans in a situation in which the Republicans just have to sit still and keep the Senate is, is a reckless bit of politicking- but you know recklessness trump record- was reckless return to run in the first place, and you know it was spent. Fifty million
hours of his own money and do not do this. Take this flyer at the presidency. So I don't know I mean I think it's not gonna work and I think that ban in his more blowhard than he is somebody serious and I think the work. That's why I thank everybody needs to start taking a really serious, but if it can work, then here's the we're part. I don't mean to be a historical determinist here, but if it can work it will probably work and raging against, it, isn't going to help because hi, is now there's a laughing stock. It doesn't matter if it helps are now so what about staking, because this is about staking out of a morally acceptable position for posterity weather? you are for this or again, though, that I will be recorded in the record but use long. You knew me on the record. You know this is our this is a mantra. This is who we are that's one of the reasons that we act, monetary, do what we do and stake out the provisions that we stick out because its that's what who we are but we're not.
Like hack, politicians were basically marketing themselves residents vacant and wash adapt to a changing environment or go extinct. Well, guess what you can't adapt to a changing environment? You are going to go extinct. This is the permian, so We're gonna have to get on the record one. Why are they gonna go extinct? That's also the of that's that's. The second half of the question in the second half of the question is: is Trump the way The future is he an anomaly? We don't know the answer that yet all we know, I think, is that what we thought was gonna happen and twenty fifteen entwined Sixteen o er the trumpet win trumpet lose. We most people thought he was gonna lose. That didn't mean that we didn't think that following party was going to be in a desperate. Crisis situation either way like if he, if he lost it, wasn't it oh, the Trump, the forces that made Trump the forty five percent, they got him the nomination, we're Go away they weren't gonna go away. They were gonna, do exactly
would ban and is doing now they were gonna, go at central Republicans go for the jugular primary everybody and see what happened and the whole point was? Will this is gonna, be horrible end? We harbour for the Republican Party and destructive for american politics. And that's terrible, but there was no way to stop. The weird thing is the trumps one key one, they are now apparently gonna do exactly the same thing that they were going to do they lost. That's that's the interesting part about this, and that's because Trump cannot make common cause. It's trumps behaviour that makes us impossible. The Republican Party, would have been happy to sell it sold to him if they would just give the Emily. Have in sums it, but if they would just give them a chance, you now throw them some
comes give them some gonna give them some cover. Get I'm not like pick a fight, not say Puerto Ricans are in great for wanting help from the federal government. Will that's the Emily, so here's the other question. To what extent will A trump in banning project ever be linked to achievement. Oh, but by definition that can't be linked to achieve, but right, because the failure is a necessary precondition. To the revolution in this sense, losing I'm healthcare losing on tax reform losing on everything means using warranted romp right trump can't get any through in Washington. We need to burn Washington's the ground there. Only big accomplishment is Ms Mcdonald accomplishment, which has worked which, as we said in the past and I hate miracle, because he can't get anything done, but the only thing they can save the trumpets ever done is explicitly and only Mitch Mcdonald's achievement. So this is
An extension of this is that the bulldozer that that that started, rolling there during the election is still going. That's that's what this is right, so and again I mean what's interesting, I think, is a matter of character. Study of the president is that we are on the bullet. We are on the brink of several monumental decisions here, particularly this week. The question of what will happen to the IRAN deal and he doesn't want to go there, but he likes tweet about it. He likes to say something in a speech that somebody else rights for him, but what interest him is having a five Bob Porker talking the NFL talking about how mean every base being to him. But Puerto Rico. That's that's what, but that's what brings. Is China? That's what you know pushes but like I said before, he wants to remake all reality as twitter. He wants it just throw out Jack, lay that out and how does that work?
you get on twitter and brings out the worst in you and you attack people on it, but it's Jose Aerial its it stay. It stays out there forever that it's the yearning you home as ethical and not on a one and its gesture, This nasty record of you know floating out possibilities and ideas and jobs, and that's it how we sort of wants to live like nothing. You don't know We're talking at this before these sort of keeps. It decision every suppose. It initiative is just sort of put out they're kind of walk back a little unregistered stays out there in the ether ditched it just in the in the fog, but the best part about that is his die hard supporters. Dont know the walk back. They don't even internalize the walk back for them. The wall is the biggest top priority of this president. They don't know that he's had multiple opportunities to fall
this on the budget and has had his bluff called and has walked just completely sheepishly back from his position. They don't remember that. Does the White House a sort of talked about not doing anything on the Paris agreement, they only remember the announcement, then I'll, remember that tongue from tweeted about how he's gonna revisit his dhaka decision. If nobody sign it, meaning that no one's going to act on a cause. Why would they they only, here, the initial announcement may think that the present is on their side about whatever cultural grievance they have, and this allows them So this presidency has been at least moderately successful at something that they tried to do it's all an illusion. Well, it's Not really an illusion, of course, because if the purpose, if the value of the term presidency to the people who follow Trump and believe in Trump, is that he represents, the validation of their general world view, the execution of policy to support that worldview is less important than the validation of the eight at its absolutely illusory
because that validation is rough, femoral is built on my knees, there's no foundation to it and the second that somebody apply some scrutiny of this without trouble in the White House. It all goes away. Will I agree with you, but that's the perception, vs reality game. So, if you say I'm with you with Reagan, had this a little bit Reagan was Abe was the was the pro life president and he was pro life and it was pro life from birth of his pro life. He was pro life and he did absolutely nothing to advance the pro life cause and he was blue, of the pro life movement, because he validated their world view. There was nothing we basically claim was and pro life there's nothing. We can do until the Supreme Court overturns Roby Way, but you I love you. I love you, I'm with you you're the greatest you're the view of the moral beacons of moral arbiters of our time, and now meant a lot to them. That was very meaningful to them. Now,
it turns out once he was gone, there suddenly were very practical things that could be done to advance the pro life cause that George, H W Bush, who was not thought to be around it will provide for was force. To do in order to demonstrate his bones. Feed us to the pro life cause, we're things that hs certain types of regulations they put in place, and this than the other thing whatever so so It's interesting as the validation is way more important than you're giving credit for being. Now, I think it's empty empty calories, but people love him calories. What do you like? You wanna canny bar, you want you want. You know some good kale right, but you know it's in unison Anti calories and and what's also menace, Hurley has anything to do with with trumped positions. Oreithyia recycling, to work through our ah, but go that's funny. Neuro Labour force participation is up.
And this, and this is what but yeah no just made a sign indicating legally slight, however, slightly up, but it's up and if it continues and if if the ground these days, I really have yet rogue states or by three percent. That's that's a strong backdrop for all that, not all the ephemeral mindset that we count is execution in those in this category Millwards, if that, if the nation improves for the better Donald while Donald Trump as president, but it will get credit rat no matter but he that no matter how liberal screaming yell about how awful he is, but the actual policies that he that he has claimed that he wanted to put in place. Particularly the construction of the wall was not going to happen in some versions of all happen or it could or the as as I've been arguing with life,
rules they should be. They should let him build the wall. The wall is the least intrusive part of any antium. You should agenda its this totally symbolic object? It's not. You know throwing people in jail. It's not adding five hundred thousand ice agents. It's not doing this! That are the other thing. It's like tourist attraction, that's like the immigration statue liberty, it see notes, will what you gonna go. If you know, if you hate Emma Lazarus you'll love the wall, you know that's the that's where we're that, that's where that currently irony. That wall is that its opponents are far more invested in it than the president is. President again has had every opportunity to do something about this in these opponents is democratic opponents writ regarded as a symbol of his ability to achieve in agenda
they think is xenophobic and racist and when they are more invested in stopping it, then he's investment. That is why I say it's stupid. That's why so there actually but short sighted, because, but I think, but putting Democrats now know that the idea is to give him the wall in some form entity to get an exchange other things they want. They. They may think that that's actually not possible because they, At a dinner, there was the dinner with the humor and policy and and and tromp where it where, with the Democrats, I'm out of that saying we ve struck some kind of deal on immigration turns out. That's that's not really the case at all, so Well, they're saying it's not really the case he said I want to do something to make sure that we have those we let the dreamers here we're going to we're going to make that happen, and then they came out until they have a deal right now, he's issued a statement of principles that says he
but I want in exchange for the added they merely said he can't have any of it. Well, you know what sorry, like That is not a negotiation. I need to find some if they eat your steak me out of this hole in the grocery. If there, if the, if the democratic dreamer position is here's my offer, nothing. I expect you to pay the two hundred. Fifty thousand dollars for the casino licence, like Michael Corleone, said the Senator Senator Gary Godfather part to that, all well and good. But the fact is, if this doesn't happen, the dream, the dreamer protections have been rescinded action hat legislative action needs to be taken in order for the dreamers not to become illegal by Please use, and why do you say there has to be legislative ass? We legislative because the president himself said that what Obama did with a reactive, Jeff sessions and the president, both in rescinding Dhaka, said doktor is
constitutional Trump I'm not sign a piece of paper having sex. Civically said that the act in question is unconstitutional, I think, was a failure of a man Yea cabinets can be a proper, but my point is that the the list of immigration. Wants that that that what has released last night, I suspect, contradicts things that he told The Democrats during that dinner Europe, Europe, must not rural nope. Might my point is so that southern Sudan, why would they think that there is an exchange to be had with him on on the wall, or on anything else. Well, because, that's you know he he's tough negotiator, but you got no I spoke to negotiate with the guy. He rescinded Dhaka. If you don't want those people started the imported beginning in April or going on the shadows, no shaking his well, I'm gonna shit may have to
Try to move on and one of the ways I'm gonna move on is by transitioning to discussing to go from the loaded. The high. Because you are so many of you listening to this park, curious eager to learn as much as possible and where that way too, though, sometimes we may not sound like it which is why we know you'll enjoy watching. We re courses plus as much as we do learn about anything that interests you from some of the world's greatest professors. Unlimited access to stop You can download thousands of different videos on so many topics: history, science, even learn a new language or how to cook recently Abe Green Walled has been enjoying the who, by the way, is a serious issue the piano sources of important, very key interest to him he's been enjoying the way courses plus music series on the thirty greatest orchestral works in which, in all all of them Abe there is a piano.
Piano tree and assure you that the instrument, while our or works, and indeed in classical music in general or they poured predates the piano in its harpsichord array or is right. We were again that's right, yes, Olga so, and he recommends checking it out, so we just tells a little bit about Doktor Robert Green Bergen. His thirty graced orchestral works course sites. It's fascinating worse, the last letter I watched her head was on Box Brandenburg, Concertos among be fastened things about it. Is that compose these concertos and they were not used, they were discarded until like this years later, because the his patron, tastes like elsewhere, and these are too complicated but in they are being discarded. They were sort of preserved, so we weave, you know, thankfully have them, they would discarded mean they weren't use. They were stored away and
their adviser, oh yeah, yeah, an amazing envy the compositions among them. The revolutionary aspects of them have to do with bought wanted. Worn players to do things with their instrument it to serve hit, notes that required them to two to implement. Very strenuous work around sort of sir pushing the instruments to their limits and beyond, and also very incidental and obviously Greensburg didn't make any point about this, but I thought it was interesting. Dino up box wife's name was remember Barbara. For our part, Barbara Proverb, Barbara, that is very low point that was not paid ended up with but struck, but struck me. Ok, just so everybody, those Barbara Bark was a model of the nineteen seventies who married gringo star another another great musicians and the second the star of Cave man. Of Mr Picture, yes, Caveman so Barbara
Our bargain ring hope rings the best Hocker citizen to get well from the height of what we just. We were high Malaga way back low, so just in case you want to learn more about Barbara Bach and and Johann and the and their sons, Carl Emmanuel and, of course, PDQ. We want you to experience the great courses plus so they're, giving our listeners a few a full month of unlimited access to enjoy all their lectures for free, but you need to sign up with my special url start your today sign up. Now, at the grace courses plus dotcom slashed commentary, that's the great courses plus come or one word slash commentary. Gentlemen. So the world has been consumed for the last three or four days with the story of.
Harvey Wine steam, one of the premier film producers of our time, headed first of the company called mere max and then of the wine seen company producer of Academy Award winning Shakespeare in love. The inventor of there, aggressive, new Oscar campaign, prestige, pictures and, of course, what what the world learned that the lot of other people knew was that he is a disgusting pig in behaved in the polling ways toward women who work for him. With
who are seeking jobs for him and people just in general, and so after a New York Times, story dropped on Thursday by by Sunday the board of his company wincing company, which includes his brother Bob, who, with whom he worked for fifty years or forty five years to someone like that starting his music promoters in Buffalo, has fired him outright. So the big question- is what are the larger Sosa. What's the larger sociological, meaning of Harvey Weinstein's decline and fall, or what was the larger says, he loves me of them of the fact that he was able to function as a sexual predator in a major american industry for so long
with no consequences ape. Let there so many interesting aspects. To this I mean for one. The question of why now, which I think is, is universally acknowledged, as is the reason being that he's fallen from his his you know godlike stature and and and is less people are somewhat less dependent on on on there. Ivory hoods for four does depend on him for their livelihood and can risk speaking up to me, the most fascinating Internet thing here is what it says, but the nature of activism and hypocrisy right, because one sees big outspoken, progressive. He gives progressive causes, he's he's being made a move is that are about female, empowerment and I think,
It's too, as tourists Fahrenheit known when one among others like so right, just as I just, feminist cause, no well does what it, but it is in this particular case it it's interesting about that, because he's gonna use transgressed against so many women, the interesting thing is it to me that it it exposes the serve hollow hollowness at the core of of activism and this problem with liberal activism, which is at its all about prescribing good things for other people. It's it's it's! It's wanting good things to happen out there. It's, making a fuss about what's going on elsewhere and that this and that sort of gives Europe a kind of pass to make ash of your personal life and this happens, I think, confer across the board and if you think, about climate, climate change, This amendment that that's all about wanting, legislation and yelling it at leaders, no one's, giving
their cars personally, no one's own right or their prior, their private jets right everyone. So there's this, it's kind of this decision, some of absolution it's it's then, and that should be exposed and stopped. Why doesn't mean all? You can also be the case that that a lot of philanthropy from from time immemorial is based on me, parlous personal caught, a conduct of certain rich people who then seek to buy a way to Heaven by giving money away to to provide the absolution they made because they misbehaved and often exactly in the fields and realms in which they must behave either to money, their tracks or to or or because they they genuinely have guilt. They can't control themselves and, above all, it does happen on both sides mean there. There are two of you: no moral. Conservatives who then get caught doing doing their job
swaggered congressmen, mirth Last week I mean yeah. Of course I've been hypocrisy is hypocrisy knows no priority, although I think people desperately wanted to it, just doesn't ripen it's amazing, but what it? What a real driving force had actually is sellers. This thing about people, not coming forward, and I don't mean the victims here I mean just people in general, because this was clearly an open secret in a minute it was ever in the times. Everyone open their mouths, with the exception of a k, a couple of places where you feel like there are still people who are afraid, their careers or in jeopardy. If they talked about this guy and that's you know, same thing that people have said about conservatives who didn't pay up about bill I leave. Another was a tape out, thereabout shower and aloof. I mean people knew so, but I feel like that sort of a cop out, because people were talking about it. I mean there was like a decade and a half ago, Oh after I stopped caring about the entertainment industry and resolved to not care about the entertainment industry actively.
The old HBO shower entourage had a parent of a character. Who is a boorish loutish producer type who was based on Harvey Wednesday? I knew that I care about any of this garbage. So am I that everybody knew it and I was Television about making fun about Hollywood. So if they were obliged to do this and felt there, you know that they could do this in their careers were intact, will see, mean omits its relative, but still there and if you pull this off, so the notion that you know people headed headed, stifle in order to keep them there's intact enough. That's a hundred percent supported, but here's what I would say. Yes no but Harvey once in everybody knew about Harvey wife's name, but I didn't know about Harvey wine steam. What I
was hearsay. I didn't know. I had no personal experience of Harvey once team abusing women. I just heard the same stories in a lot of people, heard my new people who work for the Winston company who alluded to it, and I think I think that there is an interesting quality to work place drama in, sense, which is everybody male female, whether it involves sexual stuff remind has worked for a horrible boss at some point in their lives and abuse of boss. Somebody who screams at you somebody who throws sometimes gets physical with you and we all under these conditions. Everybody who has been this experience has to function, has to come up with a certain calculus with
Are you going to take it? Is it dangerous for you to leave, you know, will you will you have difficulty leaving because the person that you work for will make it difficult for you to work somewhere else or you know? Does your personal self respect require that you walk out the door and find something else to do, or is this indicative of a kind of industry what you're working and you can't you can't stomach. That pointed to AIDS Point, it is illustrative of how he thinking his attorneys, we're thinking in the people around him. We're thinking that his statement that he put out Weinstein's statement on October fifth, which was really Ill advised closed with these notes. Appeal to liberal solidarity where he talked about how it was gonna, go to work, combating the end array and how he was gonna. Hopefully, he and Trump would have a retirement poverty together or something along those lines that I was just a just trying to hit these notes they listen progressives we're on the same side and you need to relative my butt.
So my point is that this is. Everyone has worked in these situations: men and women, and the difference between them. Most cases for women, is that there is a set of sexual aspect. Them can be inserted in which they are sexually harassed or they are asked for sexual favours, or something like that. Though, I think a lot of us or a lot of people in general because of the insistence on what I would consider. Gender egalitarian ism at work have thought that the rules words are in place. Are the rules that involve working for a despicable boss period, so You can manage to come up if you can find it in yourself to work for Harvey Wine steam, because your calculus is that, despite his piggish behavior, you will benefit in some way from it will be good for Europe. Where you learn the ropes he's a great producer. He makes good movies you'll go from there to prosper somewhere else you make that calculation is yours to make or you,
walk away and leave what's different. Now Who is the acknowledgement that there is something you beak in sexual predation that you can't over, that you can simply overlook on the grounds of being a horrible Bob us- and I have no problem with that, because I believe that men have an obligation to behave in a chivalrous manner toward women that acknowledges that there is a difference between men and women and acknowledges that women. Both The workplace and outside the workplace should be treated with a different form of respect, but that is the general common opinion except that people, have it even when they claim they don't people think that it is space is particularly untoward too have to behave in a sexually per day. We now predatory manner, as opposed to say a guy who takes a paper weight and throws it at your head, which.
Ever happened to me, but is like a famous incident with another famous Hollywood producer and is as shown in the movie swimming with sharks, and you can look up and that producer is out of me to name because it it's here say nonetheless a suitable and the hearsay it is the other part, which is that you know it's a simple basic matter of fact that you can't walk around saying, Harvey Wine state is a monster because my friend Phyllis told me that she had a friend named Irma who whose whose room made was abused by are? We wine state, you're gonna who fill us as you know who Irma is, and you know the story is true. That's why though it seems horrible for it to be the case. Somebody who is directly involved in an incident of sexual predation has to go on the record to say that it happened either. With the police or the authorities or with the or you know whatever, or make it public, because you can't destroy somebody on the base.
Of hearsay. This is like the basic, the earliest biblical crime that was described or, like legal, fishermen in the Bible is Jacob being falsely accused rape by Potiphar, his wife and he is thrown in the dungeon that you know bye, bye, bye, Pharaoh, because he is falsely accused we fall The accusation is a real problem. Probably it's not forbid Harvey Wednesday, but you can't then say that the world should operate in this way. People, say Harvey Wednesday is gross. Therefore, he should be fired. That's not that that! not tat civilization can function that and when the victim comes forward. That's when that's opens the floodgates to that that beside the same thing with Bill Cosby and there was another open secret about his conduct, but would but when, but when the first, woman who was at the receiving end of it comes forward the rest following our cautiously, never Harvey once you have another reason. I think that there has been silence
look silence on and on the issue, but that is what got you wanna know. I just want to say one thing, which is I'm sorry, but you know the truth is that you cannot it's very hard to describe talk about this without making reference to click. Monica Lewinsky. Now whence he was apparently as as we know, was about We consensual, so it's a different thing. You didn't the whole true! There was whether or not by debt, by by definition, the present United States should not be like making time with interns catholic really claim that he came onto heard non consensually and then there are other cases and, the entire failings of liberal public opinion and is now so horrified and shocked by Harvey wisely and things he should be destroyed lie, and up behind me Clinton and said that this was a political effort to destroy somebody
pull it out for ideological reasons through where there is a famous to grope ruler, three grope role, or whatever was word, were, who did Clinton's Bosley group as it Paul, but Kathleen Willie Loose Kelly, whereas there was pop poligized to eat? Supposedly, am he peed? Not I mean? settled the case right she. If there is one group and inglorious dynamism like well, he groped once she said no twice in regions in Ireland. I wasn't right. That's pretty, might jackass that this is Rebecca, tries to, I believe who have one of the better pieces about wanting to dynamic that we should tell. But her suggestion was that we ve changed as a society that we are more sensitive to. The behaviour patterns are indicative of somebody who is abusive, sensitive to the plight of but who are abused? You know you had a sort of an aborted effort to pull Clinton around Weinstein's from his attorneys racially, which was
the guy's a dinosaur? This is Bloomless Abloom, whose we already daughter who is the author of Asia apologetic book on the trail, Martin killing for spending, basically the entire year on MSNBC, saying there was no evidence to convict and then having to apologize, for the rest of her career for having an expert legal opinion on the matter which was being made into a many serious by the Winston company. Andrew easy answer. She came out. She was like all the guys gonna. He doesn't understand. Power his his youngest turning his teaching Harvey Winston about power dynamics and I'm sure he's learning. Quite a bit reminds me and Lady Davis was on board with this. Initially in then everybody started abandoning ship, because it was just an untenable position. There remain if, when the windows Anthony wieners, baby. First came to light than Alec Baldwin wrote a peace at the Huffington posts. Saying that look. This is just he has the failings of a modern man who is faced with opportunity and tax
ology. That makes it too easy, and it's just you know it you and then, of course you see how deep the right where did they never nose? Out of us might have survived some scrutiny twenty years ago, worried it won't survive now, but I just I just. I am amused also by the fights that, when a twitter over the weekend, where conservatives jumped on this and when a high sea Harvey wincing Holly, whether so disgusting and you know that predators, and then they cover each other because they're all liberals and then I think, quite justified. Depending on who you were not us, but first people said This is what you are saying, and you elected Donald Trump President like what getting me Harvey wine statism presides AIDS. Is a business manager got fired by his bored, so you, You seem to think of the inner you. If you voted for em, you thought it was ok that he did this and you are not in a position to yell about Harvey wine. Seen, however, now
Now the Republicans really don't care about that. May honestly don't care whatsoever. They want to invite those comparisons. You had the The chairwoman of the Republican National Committee, Mr Daniel, who was pushing this line that ignores democratically to complain about this guy. No, knowing that it was going to run down tobacco, president. In the access Hollywood tape was gonna, come up and all his past behaviors is groping behaviour, the accusations, etc. They care they really don't they want to invite this kind of above. A civic battle is cultural battles. They love the cultural battles. Even if there were down negatively to the president he's got his bed. He's, never gonna go away, I judged edge one. We can put the another reason for these are the public silences at when something like this happens? There's gotta be, No ten twenty other moguls out there now just that Airbus Rex that are absolutely petrified.
That their own indiscretions in there. The long history of interest are gonna going to come out as well, where it will. Last week we were talking about this in the office, and I pointed out that I don't know what it was: one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight or something like that, or maybe a little later of the writer Lauren Weisberger Pushed the novel, the delawares product, which was a totally thinly veiled portrait of her abuse at the hands as editorials system at the hands of Anna winter. The editor evoke And everybody knows Anna Winter and the portrait of this monster was Abu Ghraib, a huge sensation but it was Anna winter. Interestingly enough there was a review and the New York Times by Anna Winters, former deputy, whose name escapes me just at the moment. Maybe I'll remember
Talkin saying Lauren, Weisberger doesn't know what you that mean. Yeah Santa's got a very tough but, on the other hand, she's a visionary and she was cheap to did things and Lauren Weisberger understand what she was up to and all this, and then a movie version was made seven or eight years later, that effectively took the New York Times reviewers position 2novels position, which is that really Miranda priestly with a man who was teaching Lauren Weisberger lessons about life, and she was really hopeful that she was going to learn them and that she was going to take them and use them later, and it's her turns into this leg vague said, come thing, but the publication of the devil. Where's product was a key moment in some sense, in american Publishing and in the world of magazines of partially came out just as magazines restoring the tank. But you don't hear stories about the incredible abuse of editorial assistance and condemned asked any more, and I think one of the reasons is that that book put every
buddy on notice that, if you be miss, behave this way you there is an assistant in your office and there was a book contract in her future and she would rip you a new one, and so you better clean up your act and not be a monster it worked similarly stuff, like this Harvey Winston thing like any any punishment for a crime, hopefully has a deterrent effect on other crew. Animals now, whether or not there's gonna be a purge in Hollywood. Isn't is another! You know interesting question The danger of these sorts of things danger, whatever of could constitute a danger, is that
people use them now, as you know, weapons as corporate weapons against each other too. You know where to get the other at somebody out, not because they care about their behavior, but because this is a good way to get yourself into the executive, sweet and one wouldn't put that past anybody either. But you know sometimes these kinds of moments of clarity have positive consequences, which is why the whole thing about how it her to if you it'll, kill, kill your career. If you come out against somebody well. It should obviously hurt your career if you come out falsely, but if you come out fairly and truly in a way that makes you look, good it'll probably be benefits. You instead of a had said a hindrance. So does he continued fight? I mean you know like in the same manner it is. Is he is heeded trying to save himself in the industry and in some sense, or does he know, quietly disease face reality in and
why. I was wrong about bill earlier that I thought he would go away, but I didn't think so down and you were right he's trying to mount a comeback tore but hardly one scene, you know, will go away. I mean the questions whether he will be. He can't he needs peace all to give him enormous amounts of money. Will part of mine carry you can't be a movie producer unless you can go and raise five a hundred million dollars that question. If my theory was that there wouldn't be a platform for bill, O'Reilly Cuz who would dare, but it turns out just about everybody who is engaged with them before, would dare but it's entered and could never seeing this sort of wave of post fall? careers. You know this is like a new phenomenon. We have like you know, bill cause. Beasts still so goes out and plays amphitheatres. That's some some people. You know protests and is willing to he shouted down, but he's some people's to love him around. He's trying to mount a comeback me lateral, it's a sort of new new area
I don't think it's that new. I mean you know John John Ehrlichman, Road novels after he got out of prison. You know is mean it's not that new, it's just that there are people, their people or more uniquely suited to stage income back then somebody like Harvey wine steam who takes other people's money and other people scream, plays in other people's direction, and then he pushes them and brought them, and you have to make lots with people and now he'll be toxic em out in a way anybody would we would be. He began you're going to business with him, because he could do it again and then you're you're, u get sued along Because you had every reason to know that he would create a talks at work, environment, blah blah blah. Anyway. All that being said it, maybe maybe things maybe Rebecca traced, her is right and things have changed and in part
It is that we are now dealing with actual sex sexual predators of the mighty eighties and early nineties. A lot of the charges were against people. Who didn't really do it? I mean that's some of the work but you know what I mean to heal the most famous case of Sis how's, that sexual harassment, as I still don't believe, took place and the claims that were made were that you know Clarence, This kind of said one to have dinner with me and then said this thing about having pubic, mariner, coke and stuff was coke and stuff. Like that never rose to the act of, like you know, taking off his underwear and saying day, you know, do do stuff to me now sleep dealing with literal acts of sexual predation. That are, you know, I mean arguably crane causeways case Prob we criminal, even though the the hung in the end and end. Why since he is, I mean in arguably what you know he repellent as
matter of any understanding of personal conduct. So that's another differ. So these these these cases are more serious. You know, one went fox settles with around, accuser for thirteen million dollars. That doesn't mean he didn't do it. Can mean. Sometimes people settle things because they take because will be it'll be cheaper, but you know, I don't think these settlement cases I mean Foxen settle with Gretchen com. Some because of ales didn't do it, you know, that's you so they happen them, that's that's life and The investigation is still going on and you can you know that it matters that these things are real, as opposed to you now. The numbers and emanations of sexual, no unfair behaviour. So that's that's all
and the other where we go with, that is to say that we have come to the end of his literary magazine, Pike ass. You should see Noah, following its doing there doing the rapid up thing. Even I think you're, gonna love that conversation there's gonna, love that we have an audience resources suggests we do things that you don't need to know about audience that you don't like it when you go to ok well, we're done for a freedom while the new arrangement, I'm John Bud words, keep the game.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-13.