Will anyone benefit from the government shutdown, or is this just brinksmanship politics that makes no sense? We discuss this on today's podcast, as well as the question of whether female politicians are being mistreated when the question is raised about their likability. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine. Podcast today is Monday January, seven, twenty eighteen happy they may o me, I'm John path towards the editor of commentary, Thee, seventy eight year old, monthly of intellectual analysis, political probity and cultural criticism. From a conservative perspective, you can join us a commentary magazine dot com where we give you a few free reads: ask you to subscribe, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five for a digital subscription in twenty nine. Ninety five for an all access subscription, including her four monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times a year are
Issue features a remarkable lead: nickel by our own, a green wild sitting. Next to me on the war against Asian Americans of higher education, I Abe hijack after that such generous words. I hesitate stay, they said atms, two thousand and nineteen, two thousand and nineteen into think that I'm still writing two thousand and eighteen on none of my check since I never haven't written the check in years also cross or me nor Rossman. I also see that our high Noah, I John still writing checks to my dentist, doesn't take credit cards, that's about its loud and some he needs to join me. You know it's just I I just send checks through the through the internet and in Washington Dc Christine rose in our social commentary. Columnist high Christine hygiene. Ok guys so we're into an old Dame nineteen or something of the partial government shut down and which I think, seven,
Five per cent of the government of clothes, but twenty five percent is open. Something like that. Still the case that every interaction most of the interactions between non government worker and the government are going as they have before you. No social security checks are going out. Ah, what else do you get from the federal government? I guess you can send your text. Stuff in you may not get you have any interaction with HUD Hut is bad for you at a time. It's Bad people are now that yet, but it's gonna get back. People are serving reporters to airports to see whether the weather, the the line arms are long and there's this. Like? Will they look long at an over there, but as long as they were last week or if their longer, they look pretty long and supposedly
a ts agents are colleague sick because there told that they have to go to work, although there not getting paid, I don't really understand this part of the government shut down, which is, I don't understand how, according to any labour law, including government labour law, you can require some one to go to work if you are not compensate For the work now, I know everybody understands that at the end of this process, everybody's gonna end up getting made whole. That's what happened in every government shut down case since the governments, but down arrow, began really and ninety, maybe five. But having said that, how do you make some one go to work when you're not compensate on the verge of their work? The first pay period? That's not gonna, be processes, Jan Eleven sallies. Everything is still going out as normal until Jan Eleven then check stop as far as I understand it, but there, but the line was that their not being paid, but there they still have to go to work. That's what
people were saying on the news this morning. I don't know what that means, it's very confusing, but it is it's. A government that isn't really afford him. You know the military is still being paid as issue, so scary checks are going out. I believe essential you know: FBI, border security, stuff that is deemed in there. Security is still up, but all kinds other things are are down so coarse though this then goes to the question of the politics of the of the game. Here, and it is a game and everybody understands the game and were no longer even talking as though something significant is going on here. Other than a political battle for trumped up some symbolic amount of money for the wall or the border wall, or not to get it or to be humiliated by the Democrats when he came to them and accepts a really nominal amount of money for the wall. Chris
I don't well, you know if you have any idea who is winning or whose law thing, I who the hell knows the bottom line! I think your drawn anyway. So I think it's you can say that Trump is kind of scrambling right. We ve gone from his great border work up to now is calling it a steel barrier both in capital, letters and in one of his tweets are made in the USA good solution. You know his he's, he's kind the hedges bets now isn't a and and then there's this option of declaring in emergencies or the there's. A provision that thing you can declare to an emergency he seems not to know what to do so. I mean you could say he's feeling somewhat cornered. I dont think he's looking really good right here and unease is at risk of being out maneuvered in out smarted on this one does either of you have an argument that the Christine's off here in the short this is this is somehow redounded trumps benefit anybody. I've heard some I dont subscribed to them and the president is
as a Christian to set. It seems like he's the one who's showing willingness to back off his original play, cosmetic on this whole thing is, is nonsensical. It's in the wall is now on the table. No one's getting anything athletes all symbolic. So the president now is talking about steel slots and that suggests that keys, offering up some little room, which isn't gonna, be the last time he offers upward.
Ok, so our friends say the washing free beacons, podcast say here's what they say. They say if this really goes on. Trump really refuses to make any kind of a deal or to bow were banned, or something like that- and it goes on for two months or something like that- that that, when push comes to shove and federal workers are really suffering because they really aren't getting any made to pay their mortgages and stuff like that that they will turn on policy and the Democrats on the grounds that all Trump wants is five billion dollar five billion dollars is one tenth of one percent of the out of the outlay of the federal government, the United States and therefore this is ridiculous you're holding everything up for something that is nominal in any case, that's their argument. I suppose I can see grounds on which it works, but I mean what I say. I think we're we're some time off from that
I mean, I guess if they don't respond to the to the new steel Slats overture as I as some sort of olive branch than I guess you, envision a world in which the press makes Nancy policy ought to be the bad guy for standing firm, on the wall and the present a responsibility that the president responds to coverage. That's where he responds to and there's going to be negative coverage. That's going to be pretty dramatic if this goes on to three weeks about the people who are no longer receiving snap assistance about the the person who is no longer able to afford his home, and is that on this, they're, not gonna, turn unworthy blowsy abolished. As Johnstone say you were from winds these cycles to the extent whoever wins them. It's it's almost in defiance of the press, it's almost because the press overplays its hand right and then he's You should have seen as suddenly victim. Ok that go with the with the. As I say, we free beacon, right and writer theory. The theory is that if
if they really decide that they want to humiliate tramp of the Democrats, really decide that they want to humiliate trump. Unlike simply say it's a billion dollars or nothing, and he says it's why Billy evaluation? Nothing that, though there would there could come a point when all this bites, that the people who are being harmed will say Ok, maybe he's holding you up, let him hold you up like this is not worth the pain that is being inflicted upon us. I am. I actually dont know that that is correct at all, I'm just throwing it out as as a possibility. Right and, on the other, there could be a few changed. The armor at some point, because you know, and you ll see like an opt out Pierre by somebody when expected from who says it's time to just give him a little to give a little is gone. Long enough. I can't see Democrats moving
What you see in our Republicans moving you see, Republicans in the Senate, we're getting squeamish rather, which is the natural evolution of these sorts of things. The party that inaugurates shut down thinks they have a messaging strategy around the shut down, and then people who are a part of that starts jumped ship and, if ripped and if Donald Trump is facing the prospect of Republicans forcing him to back off his wall, pledge which would reduce negatively to Republicans led presence based one abandon him, but he would nevertheless be forced to to give at that. But he can't be embarrassed by his own party like that. Okay. Well, as I drift back down memory lane, all I remember is that the fence, as it was called offense, that's what was called in two thousand and seven slash. Two thousand and eight was the way that somebody
John Mccain, who was basically open borders. Personal tried to get himself right with the more you know, the more anti immigration parts of the republican base by saying build the dang fence right because it is its offensives, put its fencing, you'll put it up and where, where there's a river you'll, have some kind of virtual fencing, so you'll put up offence because its symbolic statement that you can't just across our borders, is impure impunity and now we're like it's like ten eleven twelve years later, and that was kind of a consensus. That was the idea of what you did. If you didn't departed, deport everybody here, you just you put up offence to show that you, many business, There's something and now the fence is the be all and end all of everything, trompe l, wavering, moderate, is to back away from the brick wall to the steel ends.
Christine, I'm sorry interrupted well. No. This is but that's a good point, because I think what This kind of matter argument that's going on here, above and beyond the issue of the actual shut down and will trump get what he wants her will, or will policy in the Democrats hold firm? Is this issue of what immigration policy means for Trump supporters verses? What it means for Democrats and use their? There is a really big gap there, people in what are called the fly over states are in in outside urban areas. I mean Trump supporters are very much for a strong border policy. It doesn't have to be a fence, but there but their view. Immigration or are quite a lot different than what you hear and mainstream media reports, and certainly from the mouths of democratic petitions and and their supporters, who want to abolish ice, for example. So there is a huge and grow. Gap and when it when it comes immigration policy in their there hasn't been a lot of room for negotiation or compromise. There- and I
I've been interested to see just here and there in some of these reports in the mainstream media, about the government shut down one of the new Themes. Developing is how all the immigrant court hearings have been cancelled as a result of this rights of this, this horrible backlog of millions of cases you know you're, seeing your seeing these stories now start to be brought up, is proof of why you know this that usually used Hence trumpet I think that this broader issue of immigration, I'll, say both within the Republican Party and then between Republicans and Democrats is, is the larger meadow issue that's being debated here as well, or one of the things that is shut down and the government shut down is the verified system, which is the computerized system according to which you check. If you are employing somebody as to whether or not they are of good legal standing or an r undocumented, so you do have the serve comic effective, as you say other within the court's down, and then on the other hand, the verified system down, so the reverse I system is theoretically the most
the importance of the. If you are a believer in all, this is the most important aspect of all and that's the thing. Immigration policy. That's the real threat here is that the president's right flank, the people who are really immigration sceptics, as you say they dont think the wall was the be all and all of this policy, its symbolic, what they believe in our. As you say that by electronic monitoring and customs enforcement, and also their their fear of a grand bargain which is now starting to be talked about openly? I can't imagine that anybody who is really seriously and immigration Hockin doesn't just want the president to have Heavens Mcgovern believes, that a five billion dollar pittance is worth legal pathway for Dhaka, which was what's on the table. Now
they may not. He himself seem to think that that was good last year, and then he got scared off it. I mean mellow, like the train, even there the trade off. It seems to me if what you, what you need to do it compromise situation is make sure that everybody gets away with saving face than obviously the five billion dollars for the path this is and ship for the dreamers is eight is the is almost the perfect trade off, because I think most people wouldn't be opposed to five billion dollars and border funding, and most people who aren't opposed to a path for citizenship. Further
rumours in the dreamers. How many are there are six hundred thousand or something like that? If that, so it's it's a very and yet there you know they ve, so they dug themselves into resident here routinely has to be told what he believes by his right flank and they're gonna be telling him pretty seriously that you're not getting a wall in your giving us legal status for illegal immigrants. I can imagine that place well, I dont have died the dreamers is a weird. The dreamers is a weird thing. It was like a major issue last year. Somehow it's now totally left our consciousness. There was this there. There are these people, this weird to remediate status in which you know they came to the causes, countries through no fault of their own. They were children. There were brought here and they lived here and there only Americans, except that they don't have
you don't have legal status, and so the idea was if you could come up with a specific arrangements for them that did not in the case of the more restrictions people did not, then Ankara their parents or anchor others that was just for them and not for members of their family that had very broad support as our Klute, including among Republicans like eyes. So but I don't wanna talk about lawmakers or almost to the point where things have broad support or bipartisan supporters are harder to make had intervened. Ten then completely polarizing issues it we can. All things can only have now, if once I'd, gets crush on one side with is rife, but am were now in a situation which that will no longer obtain right because, because of the democratic control of the house, all all you have there is complete. You know, Prague's gives me complete,
paralysis. I say. Excuse me cause. I hit some thing that makes weird noise here: Maya, Maya, microphone But you know you just said that he needs to be told what he thinks and then, of course we have these spectre over the weekend of the information that we are being women give by national Scary, Visor John Bolton, our old friend here commentary that that we're not actually gonna pull out of Syria or we argued apply if Syria, as long as our poet of Syria, isn't a pull out of Syria, we get it. We get differences from our allies are not forthcoming or we assurances rallies, who aren't our allies that are not forthcoming, that our forthcoming, that they will fight ISIS had not killed, occur and re ever said. He was gonna, pull at any time soon. You never shows at that. Guy said that, even though he said it so he said now, matters still be stupid secretary, and so the question is was Bolton. Talking out of
it has had, or did he have assurances from Trump that was backing off. They were pulling out of syrian thirty days, Air so he's getting his love at its. So he's being told what to think his immigration restrictions than these being told to think by his globalists, others I'd or supposed globalists? You know who who were? Who just do not want? to fight perpetual wars, and to that end, the weird thing is that when Trump first announced the the Syrian pull out a huge part, the story, as was reported everywhere. Was that he's doing this? Despite the advice of of his advisers and people to people are telling him not to do this disease wants to do it anyway, humble and specific right. So what so? What changed between then? And now there was some sort of I remember- the triumphal ISM from ran Paul right, the icily rightist right saying that you know this was their tyrannical.
All over his eyes were there was this effort to contain around that was going to continue in perpetuity and Syrian Donald Trump got wise to it and pull the rug out from under yeah, but Donald Trump foreign policy. Expertise is like the Veronica SALT Right is like a really want. I, like I, don't care how I want it now aims right then he said let's withdraw immediately, and so obviously this is another one of these examples. Where there's this massaging going on behind the scenes once he makes you going to blurt something out on twitter and going to lose his Mattis and now there's damage control going on within the administration. Thank goodness, be says you point out. I mean we don't want the Kurds being slaughtered as a result of of this kind of misjudgment, but this seems to me just part of a larger pattern and that we ve seen over and over and its fascinates me that it be. It suggests that it can work on Trump that that you know overtime, you can sort of chip away at at at a bad, bad conviction and and sort of unit,
get find some room and thereby to change things. I mean it. Isn't stored Mary idea that the president defines the outer limit of his of his administrations policy and then is reigned in by his advisors, who pull him closer to the centre. That is a dynamic that I think is pretty close to unparalleled, if you think about it in american history limits its always often that the present, since he is the person who was elected right, has a greater feel for the American Centre, what the american people can or will tolerate than his advisors, who are more egg, headed and less responsive to the democratic process. By definition, the tried and. Here. You have a kind of weird thing where guy winds and a fluke election, and he believes that its his extremism that helped him win, and so he defaults to it and somehow his
may be Moderated- I mean I don't- I don't allow unfairness where we're privy to a lot of internal monologue that probably wouldn't take wooden. We wouldn't understandably privy to because of the president's habit. Just vomiting thoughts up on Twitter wrote, maybe I'll even conversation goes on in past administrations behind closed doors, and we just on here while I may, we heard it on the tapes on the Nixon takes right. So what we heard on the Nixon tapes was, though they didn't really come out to. You now serve the measures it was all but killed. A man really the whole thing. Was it your next one to be as cops after like six, six hundred and thirty, and he would ruminate, and you know that he would bark these. You know sometimes crazy orders and his aides hold Ehrlichman knew not to take them seriously entered, not execute them and then to wait until the morning to see if he even remembered what it was that he had said. So you know that better. We do have
sense of what the what a presidential it can sound like pretty dissimilar right, but you know- and then you have about the opposite- would be Obama, who is like saying there in the residents eating seven seven almonds and you know, and reading a science fiction, novel and everyone else is going crazy and he just has that incredibly low blood pressure. You know it nothing, you know right as he always famously did Obama is. That is really the opposite, because he his advisers would presented with an array of options from serve most conservative to the most aggressive and ten without fail. He would de would talk up the his tea. These supposedly pragmatic option down the middle.
Right which never yet when that was never having way, was a b and C read like a nuclear war. Rice IE is surrendering to write nazis, and so there is only the would be in the middle there. That's the only possible choice you have so basically Things aren't going now. Well, since the mid terms, We're saying whether I don't think you're going particularly well for the Democrats either by the way I mean they're, they're, fine, there they're, not fine. The only thing is that having trump there does provide a kind of unit. There was all this possibility that there would be kind of a weird democratic civil war that would parallel the republican civil wars of twenty look after the tea party came in you have this like aggressive left wing romp,
Really pressuring Nancy policies like Nancy Policy is a person of the centre left pressuring Mamsie blessing the center, but she seems to have pretty much unified her party, I think you have to say, though, that that phenomenon exists and it's just a little bit muted by the fact that the shut down unites the democratic caucus like nothing else. If we, in the absence of a shut I think you would have seen that aggressive left wing flank make more efforts on the rules package for ever getting deep into the weeds now sort of stuff that they were really energized about, like the rules package like Peggy, Sue, Ann dumb and like this green legislation, push that the the green new deal of Sub committee was was x out, and you didn't hear anything about that. Because there was all shut that I could save time. I suppose, although I just think you know the the thing
that made the tea party, Republicans came in and twenty Levin, revolutionary is that they hated government, they disliked gum they did not want to use the levers of government to do anything that was part of the problem is, I didn't, have a legislative agenda because they are against Let us legislation, less legislation was remove government offices or limit the power of government down I have. No such there were quite the opposite right there. What they want is to harness the powers of government to do things, and so you know,
No Nancy policy may have veto exit out some of the greens that certainly policy wiser, legislatively she's, not gonna, hold them back now, they'll be able to write bills and structure bills of that sort. They're not gonna, get through the Senate and trampled sign them, but they can pass them till the cows come home. You know that's she's, giving them allow Europe and they seem to know how to wield power. Ro Ro Cahoon, I believe his name is an agency have been none big features of this new Congress and they ve been willing to buck leadership and and leadership is not flexing any muscle on there are now I mean it's only been a week. You know me well, I'm sorry that the centrist revolt against Nancy Pelosi was put down ruthlessly right. And they were made to genuflect before them. There was a delivers like a true roman type I will close. It was was had the speakers gavel, but there is a little better follow. The money thing going on here
say classically in politics. You know they. I think that Cassio Cortez others on the left have the upper hand, because they have shown that they can generate voter am dollar enthusiasm in a way that the centrists you now are serve more and tropical air. The Tropic Democrats are the ones who just our hang around forever, because republicans are now serve like yeah are now on. The defensive
nobody really no democratic one or two democratic lost their sea seeds, and so they they and their again, like they're, not they're, not aggressive policy, if you're a centrist, centrist, democratic, you're, centrist republican Republican. Lastly, you are as an aggressive policy maker, you're sort of like there to put your finger in the wind and try to figure out which way you want to go, and now I want to just stop for a minute and talk about nears resolutions and twenty nineteen and our beloved advertiser clip. Say beloved, because I myself am a serious quip user inasmuch as the new year means new resolutions and we ve got one you're working on twice everyday. It's your oral health and with Quip electric toothbrush sticking to the habit is simple. The guiding features are like a built in support system for better brushing sensitive sonic vibrations for an effective clean that
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and into Republicans are bashing or cut your credit as for dancing like alley, she d in the breakfast club, not since of Brok Obama's tansu suit. Have I been so? while raged, I mean that's part of Oh it is stipulated two things that we can then will move us into. Work are are larger discussion here. I'm not stipulate that you may not like Alexander Carcere Cortez his policies, as I think all rational peoples should not, including. Conventional liberals. You should not wanted seventy sixty to seventy eight percent. By top marginal tax rate tat. We know
I could spend ten minutes telling you why, but I had no three, but I think we can stipulate for the record that that is that. That is a bad idea that has not stood the test of time anywhere that it has been tried. I think you can also stipulate that, despite the fact that she has policies that one doesn't like him, seems to have safe, occasionally things like things that are now right or not true or something I had that she is intrinsically a likeable person, she's likeable she's fund, to which is pretty she's, mute, she's unpretentious. She, you know dance where was she was a bartender she, its she's about Americans Success story came out of. Nowhere beat a b the number four person in the house in them in a primary. With a shoe leather campaign ringing doorbells and do what you do
the new serve like have an entrepreneurial success. So she comes along and that there is no question that people on the right one Haider and it seems dumb because he'd is not there. A motion to be feeling towards somebody who seems quite you know, charming and, and also the hate that is expressed for her only hardens her popularity with the other side, but we have had this whole converse. Now for a week, because somebody dared do a piece for politico on the whether Elizabeth Warren now declared for the presidency is likeable enough to be president, and we are not apparently allowed to have this conversation that right Christine relative
exactly so well, which is with the whole thing just cracks me out, because I think it was just so long ago. Two thousand eight that Barack Obama GUT a little bit to push back, but not that much for. Turning to Hillary Clinton, saying your likeable enough Hilary to remember that this will remember how it happened for she said she said something of a debate like, I think people I think I think likeable. Right right in this kind of his cutesy way? And then he you're like a morning while- and I think there's a difference here between this. Like ability question, which is, I think, it's ridiculous to say that it sexist to call a female politician, unlike a bolder, been plenty of Couple female politicians and the separate issue of a Aussies coolness like Miss dance, dance revolution here I agree issue. She can be charming, although I think she's already risking
instagram overexposure with her kind of life streamed quietness all the time if she was nearly thirty years, zillions of ecosystem is there such a thing is, is instagram overexposure? I think for someone in her position. There could be, I mean she's. I think she needs to tread carefully she's, obviously social media savvy, but if she wants to be taken seriously as a policy maker, especially because she's on the more radical and end of the liberal spectrum, she might want to tone that down. That's, obviously not advice is likely to take, but the like ability question Think is important, because I, if frustrates me to know end that theme politicians, especially on the left, who demand that women be taken seriously as leaders and his policymakers that immediately, you know, become shrinking, violates or dropped to the fainting when someone calls them on likeable, I don't think that's a massage monistic or a sexist thing. It's the same. We say of male politicians when we say I'd like to have a beer with him or not. Right I mean this is the same kind of
shorthand for is this. Does this person seem authentic and likeable? is a way of doing that, and I think it's ridiculous that anyone saying that its access to call us with Warren. Unlike a ball honestly to me, this feels like just another way in which politicians throw brush back pitches journalists in order to craft and Anybody who has ever been on the phone with a with a politician having an off the record conversation will now you get really intimidated, but they attempt to intimidate you and that's there's nothing different here back to Alexander Cassio Cortez. There was a twitter moments event in late December in which culture critics were calling out. People who described her ass sassy or going on a tirade and saying that these are words that are never applied to men, suggesting that this is us to Van and journalists internalize that immediately and go on this and become chastised rather than pushed back against which to end it would taking two seconds to Google republican politician
Ty rate or sassy and see that it was applied to bits, ass and and leaves a gram when he was going after a brick, Havanas critics and and and of course, the most unlikely Republican, the USA, who is tat groups who were headed column after column and news article afternoons article describing him in his relationship with colleagues as unlike about it just it's like they. They abandon the sort of institutional prestige or institutional self confidence and just internalized these criticisms, especially when their identity and one of the great pieces of political journalism of our time Richard been Kramer's. What it takes has eight hundred and fifty page section of the book, which is eight thousand pages long. Roughly answering the question of why Bob Dull is unlike a ball, which goes to the fact that Bob Dull had his hand, blown off ITALY and spent two years in rehab is in almost com
Stan pain from the hand, can't use it can't rings. He felt, and so, and so, if he's like gruff and tough and short tempered and stuff like that, may be people should you know, can't catch him. A break so saying that a politician is, unlike apple, is saying something that is true of many people and all many people say under likeable, for example, though I don't think I am, but they know me with less then may, like me, Lassen it's a thing like this: there there are men, the worst things of life to be than dislike, able or unlike abalone, the idea, somehow that it's not even
qualification right I mean Trump is not likeable the evidence. That's marshalled it and in favour of this is what I've seen is people like Paul Ryan who have a very low job approval rating, but are still described favourably and as as likeable in the press, and they conflate the two as though there the same thing when there completely distinct. But I do think that, for some use the eggs sassy- we were talking here just before the show about how the word Sassy was given new life in the early nineties by the creation of a magazine for teenage girl. Girls called Sassy edited by Jane Pratt a magazine entirely dedicated. The notion that you should be sixteen and having sex and being whatever wanted to dressing. How really wanted to dress and being a sexy, as you could pass the baby, but only for your own self, not for men doing it for me,
and you're not trying to lure man you're, just trying to be your best self, as a woman, and so even using the words, have fee to describe Alexandria, cause you as is neither this is. This was a gin up for its newest use as a as a complementary or a gold form for young women, The United States by women is part of the third wave of feminism, Sir, it's like you can't even you can't use a positive terms to describe her either. According to this dispensation- and I think chow just like these have been rehearsed publicly now for so long and that most of Americans are so entirely sick of being told. That if you assess a politician certain way, that means I know something about your your innermost thoughts and that you are bigoted inside
sense or sexist. In some sense, I think it's a short sighted way to handle critics because the Inn, in the long run. I think that is just not gonna play anymore, and an ape absolutely right, because we can see this in survey data I mean. Did a strong majority of Americans are ready to elect a female as president, so if, if it were the case it we were horribly sexist, massage monistic country. That wouldn't be the also those survey so it and it is something it's a kind of mainstream media preoccupation. I think when it comes to candidates on the left, its also up the double standard that isn't about here. Is that, of course, the kinds of criticisms that surfeit of female candidates face can often be quite harsh and As well and that's not their causes, rarely championed mainstream media when it comes to these discussions of female, like ability,
only called gender traders ambitious. But I think there are words that you can say have a kind of connotation for women that that than that. Wouldn't be used about men. There is clearly a leather shrill exaggerating when I was thrown up. No man, described a shrill now by the way, since it describes a vocal quality of speaking in too high and too high in tweedy voice. It's not that easily apply. Pizza man, but I'm sure their words that are applied to you, know men that aren't applied to two women that, but I was struck by the fact that going totally filled here. I watch the Golden Globe awards. Last night, Glenn close wins for best actress for movie nobody's seen called the wife, it's her third golden globe for best actress she's. Seventy years old she's had a forty five year career. She has been a star
since basically one thousand nine hundred and eighty three okay and she gets up, and she says now. I understand that women have to have their own career. My mother, like supported my father and she did feel like she had era now. Women have to step out from behind men and be more aggressive and ambitious about what they want and what they need now, she's sitting in the ball room of the Beverly Hills and hotel, surrounded by actors, and actresses. These are the most aggressively ambitious people who have ever. Nobody needs to tell an actor that what they're supposed to be is king primarily about themselves put themselves forward. Venza, maybe good advice, for you know: like a shy office worker who He is sitting there and letting men who were who are less
Then she, because their more aggressive, get better jobs, but Glenn close, doesn't have the right to stay. And around and say I somehow have been terribly is treated. And now that I'm seventy and won my third golden Globe now. I know that I really need to stand up for myself right, so there is this. For my things, what no was getting out of I'm telling you to shut up and not criticise me. I'm a woman you're not allowed to criticise me for anything. Anything that you criticise me for is by definition, sexist, because I am a woman right that that is the that is the primary utility of this. But what is interesting is how many people buy it. I mean how many liberal women by I don't know if they buy of attack on one is an attack on us all laid by that first they did, but a little like ITALY. You know reminds me internet loyally, ok, so
Anti Semitism, so the attack and anti Semitism tends to be that you better Watch it cause. An attack on one June is an attack on all. If there is an anti semitic attack against somebody, you don't like it doesn't matter, because, what's being with what matters is the anti Semitism but juice up? Two percent of the population of the United States and in a point one percent the population of the planet and women make up fifty percent of the population. They failed states on the planet, and these are not the notion that you know the notion of gender solidarity itself, is a very peculiar one. There is, I think, a has everything and you notice that is it describing how an identity, not if not in life, by an identity and terms, because that is what people on does with journalists are afraid of on Twitter is getting singled out and having seventeen thousand people retweeted caustic criticism
a view that sidelines you in your career and it would only occur as a result of identity and politics. If you agree, I can criticise the fact that our centre a cause you Cortez, doesn't really know how many people pay tax about ten million dollars, all I want no one's gonna be mad about that. If I were to, if there was a gendered angle to that, then it's easier to comprehend and easier to understand and easier to get out there and everybody will jumper. You can make a gender dangle very very quickly, because if you say, Alexander across his doesn't understand that only what did you say? Sixteen thousand people pay they. We ourselves are there's a very low level of all. She doesn't understand always that, because she's, a woman, that's why she does not plan as hard math is hired right under the barbed all I get up yet you know every now and then the culture really does supply them with. You know, with the tools to hang the culture with right, the math Barbie Math is hard thing was, was one
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so- we talked about syria- we talked about privacy which that way that we just talked of books, Hokosa disturb our privacy with Express. We ve talked about Curzio Cortez, like ability we talked about the shut down. While we didn't talk about yes, the policies we talked about, how the palace, which but he cares about how you guys don't want to hear about that sort of thing right, because what is this all about, like ability? Isn't it It's all about. That's a lot of people say on people say Republicans. You know you're scared to death of her. Well, you scared of, I say they should be. The woman is extremely charismatic and she's espousing deal. Ideas that have the capacity to radicalized and shift the Overton Window in a direction that Republicans don't like. If they're not scared of her, I don't know what you're thinking I was Sorry Christina. Ask us either too focused on Tele Pino cursing, yes right now. Ok, so that's an interesting thing to indolence.
Oh, where she had to leave the newly minted congressmen congressperson for Michigan, who announced on the day that she was sworn in, that we are going to impeach the M F right ok. So are we. I think we this is it species of the change in the vote, the change of american political life that will define this generation of politicians. Colluding Trump, if you, even though he seventy two years old cause he's a newly meant a politician this is where we are. We are. There are no standards for personal decoy for language, there's no sense that politics should be elevated, that you should approach it in and out of fashion. In fact, that is, I think, a form of unilateral disarmament and surrender
the same time. Politicians have been cursing up a storm for a hundred years, it out for hundreds of years, famously after yours Vice President John Nance, garnered described the vice presidency as a pitcher of warm spit, but that's not actually what he said. He said a bucket of warm something else. Of course, I mentioned the Nixon tapes and as you if you're old enough to remember you will remember that does phrase expletive deleted in brackets appeared five thousand times and the transcripts of the Nixon tapes, was reminded that Tom Hearken, the senator from Iowa, who were who took a board of presidential run, they can't member and either in eighty eight. Ninety two tested a rallying speech trope, where he was going around in saying the Republicans say this, and I say bs only he didn't say
Yes, said, the full term now hearken did not become president install trump has been president's. Conspicuous effort on the part of Democrats to employ profanity in lieu of passion but Tom Perez doing this better or Rourke Kemal Harris most of others, of course, Angela Brand, whose particularly tortured exam All of that actual in really is calculated. Sure whether congresswoman two leagues effort was so well thought out and soak it such a calculated appeal. I think she's dead she's, genuinely part of the grass roots, so she may have genuinely felt like saying that was was an expression of her own anxiety, but somebody like a comma Harris, doing it in front of an audience or Kissinger Lebrun doing it with an interview or from the new Yorker that that's
little contrived so you're saying there actually doing it in order to seem authentic, yet another version of Elizabeth Warren opening a beer, it just happens. It there's too many examples of it too short a period for it not to be a concerted effort. It caused a compromise at the head of the sea, but Don't think that's what happened to Shiva too late? I think she added, I think I was actually it was GM exactly so she was genuinely authentically calling him, which is an expression of the what they were communicating this to the base, which is what the base wants to hear she actually as a product of the base. So she sang this genuinely these other political animals are just trying to appeal to the court. Monte Cristo Guide, as it associate your right because she then followed up. This is about impeachment remembrance. She followed up with the USA today Abed calling you know what's going on and on about how we shouldn't wait for, report we should just go on with with impeachment. This is what are the base once and etc, etc,
I am actually very prudish about this what once has in their personal lives? I things and is entirely different, although this was to be nice to till we speak in it an elevated terms, but I think it's a bad thing to use profanity of any sort in public life when it comes to pollute political matters, and I don't think people on the one hand, keep using this strategically or otherwise and, on the other hand, keep me morning the loss of civility and our politics. I think I think it's it's it's a disease you. You are uneasy divergent tracks. In turn, of degrading the public sphere. I dont think that the people who are good at the fault of his or her using at our simultaneously the ones who are complaining about the decree
of civility and our lot. I totally agree with you and as somebody who will actually wrote speeches for a president, I find this incredibly disheartening because you know the rhetoric of leadership in a democratic society is extraordinarily important in setting the tone of the time and one of the reasons to be done. Breast about trumps presidency and an entirely different way. A bomb is presidency is precisely that he he has degraded the prospects of rhetoric as a form of communicating. What kind of country we are should be. What ideals we we express. I wrote a peace and twenty ten for the now late and extremely lamented weekly standard on oh bombers. Appearance with John Stewart on the daily show where nobody said something and then Stuart said command dude like that, and I thought it was the crossing
the Rubicon sounds ridiculous to say this, but it was the crossing of a Rubicon that the in that the progressive info mallet in formalizing utter how what how you would describe that of the presidency had reached a point at which a talk show host on a cable show could refer to the present. United States is dude in a kind of mocking funny way and that the distant distance, the loss of the prestige of the office, that the fact that Obama was himself participating actively in the destruction of the offices. Prestige is another thing that help give us trump. I mean, even though the two, could not be more different in their demeanor and their style in their approach to things, but that turning the presidency into a pop culture presidency very much was amiss in was a necessary precondition for Trump coming along and being a different kind of power,
Culture present, I agree entirely, and I think part of it is that it takes some effort to speak, in an elevated and thoughtful way about serious things, and if you don't take that little extra step that effort you end up, the kind of lazy impulsive overheated approach to serious issues? went up with we're, gonna teach them. So without women bring today's podcast clothes. Christine rose Rossman and a green wild animals in Qatar, sound there if you heard it I'm fine words keep the candle burning.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-12.