On this week's COMMENTARY MAGAZINE Podcast, we discuss why it is that leftist Democrats and young people don't seem to like Hillary Clinton, why they're pushing for Bernie Sanders even though he has almost no chance to win, and why what Hillary has been doing to alienate them might just be a savvy long-term governing strategy. We argue over whether Sanders is being propelled by the power of ideas or by giveaways, and whether Donald Trump could have been forestalled if only Republicans had bec0me Democrats during the Obama years. It's more cheerful than last week!
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine podcast, I'm John Pub Words Editor commentary with me, as always greenwater you're editor high aim. The morning John and Rossman our system online Elinor high on our agenda.
So, gentlemen. We have as we're taking the six days to go until New Yorkers vote in me. Suddenly meaningful New York, primary and Donald Trump appears to be running away with the state, but there is a significant battle between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton for a state that she should by rights when going away granted Sanders is a new Yorker by birth and has a nice thick sheep said they Brooklyn accent, but he hasn't lived in New York since nineteen fifty nine, which means that that was what is its fifty seven fifty eight years ago. So it's quite a quite alone.
Time and he is of course represented Vermont in Washington for more than three decades and yet, what's going on with Sanders in New York and this competitive primary is writ small. What is going on in the Democratic Party writ large with Sanders EM and Hilary, which is too she has the nomination in the bag. It appears, but he has all the enthusiasm and all the excitement, and I want to ask you as a couple of questions the first and maybe Abe. Green, while you can take the sign, is how exactly do you explain the appeal, photogenic character, a logical, superstar appeal,
Of Senator Sanders this seventy four year old, unkempt guy, who does really not seem to have a sense of humor or much of a sense of proportion. The interesting thing about christmas- that is often non intuitive, and that is certain. Case with Bernie Sanders he's he's no one's ideal, no one's idea, heartthrob and but the interesting thing is when use when you encounter Sandra Support, certainly online on social media, In addition to claims they make. Those foreign policy claims they make about him in and what he'll do of two to relieve student dead and tend to rebuild the middle class? They do have a say, Aesthetic attachment to him I've even seem sort of means. Portraying him as a kind of heartthrob? As a sort of you know they they they find some sort of stop really
oh yes, I have that's really hard to believe the bird, the Bernie as a bird which is as vacuous and a meme as you possibly could have? But, I haven't seen but now I've seen that really speaks to his appeal. Well, I guess I guess the question is: is his appeal? Can we isolate on his appeal and say he has this distinct individual quality or is his appeal entirely? A reflection of Hillary Clinton, lack of appeal to the very people who are enthusiastic about Sanders able will yet I mean, I think you know just it to two to make to make the issue larger yeah, Hilary, her appeal in the left is
is frequently all about the historic and making history in the huge, huge part of a bombers appeal was was historic, understandably it as the first black president. That's a remarkable historic opportunity, remarkable start moment for one That's happened and that has now sort of served to overshadow the potential I think end in the public imagination of eight of the first female president, but secondly, Sanders comes along and I think he sorted out histories Hilary in that. Beyond identity, theirs. It there's a sort of larger historical opportunity as the left sees it to two to bring off
this democratic socialist and that's that's riding a larger historical wave and that's that's now become a much sexier proposition to me. That's that's says a lot. I think that speaks to the moment more. I don't think anybody and left would admit it, but after seven years of the Obama presidency, the premise upon which in two thousand eight as a historic appeal to identity politics. That identity is not enough that Hillary Clinton would be the first woman press. But that alone is not enough and the appeal of an idea, the idea being socialism rather terrible idea, but nevertheless, one that appeals to a certain segment of the population is is simply sexier. More attractive, as you say, and, and that by the way is, is not necessarily something. I think we should lament the fact that an idea, a political idea, albeit one that's, certainly debatable- could your more to a voting base, even a particularly a younger pace than some
light entity and identity politics alone? I don't know whether or not that something to lament at least at least there's a there's, some thought process going on here rather living. Let me be inadequate. Let me I'll go here and say that you guys may be overestimated the sanders following that. In fact, the reason that he has this gigantic following particular college campuses is that he is promising a lot of free stuff to people and they want free stuff and they like the appeal of free stuff and Hillary Clinton, started this race as the prohibitive front runner and has had an eye in everything she has said and everything she has done to the presidency that she expects or hopes to inhabit and does not want to for close. Her
options moving to the centre, and so she has been very cautious and she hasn't said much, and she hasn't promised all that much in the same, easy way that that that that's Anders can in part, because his candidacy was a flyer but here he stands he's one seven of the last eight contests and he might now conceivably win the third largest state in the country, still nearly impossible for him to win the nomination. So Maybe this is an unserious thing where people are doing their voting for a guy who can't win because they want free stuff, not because there are attracted to the idea of socialism or their so disappointed in capitalism. What they want to fight the banks. Are they don't like trade policies they just like free stuff and they don't pay?
clearly feel jazzed by her, and they know that they get her anyway. Any. Ok, that's fine! Maybe on imposing on Sanders voters a little bit more rational We then they deserve, but nevertheless she has failed to seal the deal, as you know, and it's not entirely clear. Why, and also, as you know, it's not because its there's, you have to say that she doesn't have inarticulate reason for why she wants the presidency. It's always been about Hillary Clinton, the person and not Hillary Clinton. The agenda. We don't know what she stands for. We don't know what her vision is on foreign policy, on domestic regulation on tax code reform, on anything of any import
What we know is that she is Hillary Clinton and this is supposed to be her. Do I don't know whether or not you have a real super delegate revolt if she were to lose New York toward the lot of them would shake loose? Even if it's a close rates, let him would shapeless. But at what point do we get to declare this race over if Hillary Clinton winds New York, ten points it I mean it's been over for a while, but you gotta say at that point: there's just no. There is no future for this. Insurgent campaign will there's no sure for it anyway, the only future, for it is not that she wins Newark by ten points, but that she loses it by ten or loses it by six or something like that.
And that somehow what we ve seen over the last three weeks is it is. It is a tip, a tipping point toward this more radical Canada, Sea and the party embracing a more radical frame and will only really know that after next week, but you raise an important point about not knowing what Hillary Clinton stands. For I mean she has plenty position papers and she's written two books that there are three books. I have a lot of axiom attic statements about what America needs and what should be done. I, my guess, is that the that the left of the party genuinely does not trust her to be a tribute for them and their probably right, not too, because if she thought that the future
was to enhance the leftist policies. Bomber Obama has articulated and to push the boundaries further to the left. She would have been running on that and she and she isn't, for example, one assumes democratic president, following along the lines of what's going on at the state level will push for, a national increase in the minimum. Wage certainly would happen, as Obama did with the federal government, but would somehow try to make this a national movement. Hillary Clinton is a well till you're coming out of the Clinton administration having been a politician from New York, has probably has relatively conventional centrist too liberal economic views. Would be suspicious of the value and validity of a joke,
an increase in the minimum wage. In fact she had set so she is, she is, will not commit to that good thing, not a bad thing, in almost every way, shape or form if she needs leftists to secure her base in the vote in November and what Let's say the vast expansion of benefits. Everybody now seems to expect that the government to force businesses to provide in general, I think, you're right in that she's she sort of caught between moving Sanders word and and sort of her her association with her Non revolutionary record up to this point. You know something that I've noticed his threat. The selection
Many levels have been done very excited about the sort of, the civil war within the Republican Party and the message that it is in their current entertained by it. But at least you could say of the right that they sort of went to war over this new problematic, radical presence among them. It's easy to just move towards the d. You know them the more radical riskier disruptive idea, and not have war and she's sort of uneasily handling that she's she's. Not. She doesn't quite know how much of that she can. She can offer specially when put in
against Sanders Road, so you're saying that she has an essentially like her husband, sister soldiers Zander. She hasn't said. Not only are we not going to do this but here's why? Here's? Why? It's? A bad idea for the Democratic Party and for America and where you're wrong with pushes and really have to do that because she still think she has it in the bag. So Y know you could also make the case of shares in the bag. She can do it more more readily, but that that that goes against every single thing that she represents in every single emotion that she possesses, which is to say she wants to give no offense. She doesn't she's, happy yelling, Amran scream by right wing but she just wants to give out, get through this and get herself to the White House and then see what what happens there. I don't know
that's entirely true pushed back a little bit on that, because she's showed a little bit of fire when it comes to younger voters over the course of the last couple of weeks. She famously, wrapped it on that rope line over the notion that she was taking fossil fuels, corporations, donors and then, when later questioned, that she said that specifically younger voters are ill informed member paraphrasing her, but it was it's a sad state affairs at these young voters are misinformed, she's not courting or pandering to these. Voters in particular she's saying I don't need you and she's right. She does not need them, In order to win this primary she's, they have to the tune of eight out of ten young voters, support Greece, Andrews, depending on where you are in this game, the contests it's almost uniform, Kim Jong IL like love fur Bernie Sanders here, but I pushed back against you because she saying she doesn't want them and she doesn't need them and she is doing the wishes.
Handling that in the worst possible way. I mean if what she says is that they're, stupid and uninformed than there being robots manipulated by the Sanders campaign. That's lying about her about her taking money from fossil fuels. Companies. That's not a good way to make a principled case against unthinking leftism. That will have terrible unintended consequence as for the people who are pushing it, that's the worst waves insulting its they'd that doesn't engage on the issues. It doesn't advance. Propeller linked and hurt at its petulantly heard because she's, you know because she knows that there's nothing. She can do to get them back and its incredibly frustrating for her because they're not seeing reason and just giving, up and letting her catch her breath end focus the race on the Republican Party there making her run for it and that's an interesting thing that you can see.
I think, based on some of the reasons that we are addressing, which is that she wants to keep our options open and they want to foreclose her options. Unfortunately, for that, The mass and the Republican Party may make this all mood, because if Hilary doesn't have a serial killer, he doesn't have a really serious hard race on her hands in the fall. Then she, you make any promise that she wants to to those to the Democrats before the convention then she can say whatever she was still. If she's tat twelve fifteen points up on the Republicans after the convention, the Republic invention in July, and whoever, It is out of it and the mass in the sense of chaos, and this during the k than chill just walk in
sanders supporters are enthusiastic about her or not because are they going to then turn and not do something to prevent the Republicans from getting into office? I doubt it very much speaking of the mess in the Republican Party, Steve Ratner, one time New York time, was to them made a fortune on Wall Street and then became the cars are for a while EL under under a bomb eye and then and then is now mostly known as a commentator, has a very interesting piece in the New York Times today April thirteenth called by opposing Obama, the Republicans created Trump, and I would say, here's what he says and I quote throughout his presidency, Mr Obama has put forward constructive proposals to help
the Trump voters. For its part, the Republican Congress has been behaving like Nero. Take, for example, the administration's two thousand and eleven proposal of four hundred and forty seven billion package of measures in in peril tax cuts in the creation of an infrastructure bank that would have led to the creation of thousands of construction jobs as well as other substantially economic benefits. Blah blah blah? The American Jobs ACT was nonetheless dead, virtually upon arrival on Capitol Hill so liberal Democrats. They wouldn't have the trump problem. Is that, as absurd saying, is to you that seem as absurd to you as it does to me as it does to you. That seems absurd to you, as it does to me Abe. It does and the example he cites is particular
play problematic for his own organ. The american job jobs out dimensions mentions was proposed by Obama in the fall of twenty eleven since then, and even and starting for then they were so there's been a manufacturing surge in the? U s. That is ten you'd, since that, since the jobs ACT was was a non start, and I'm quoting, I have a peace here from Forbes by Joel cotton appeared about two months ago, Entitled the city's leading a? U S, manufacturing revival and conventions in Dutch real employment has surged over the past five years with the sector, adding some eight hundred and fifty four eight hundred and fifty five thousand new jobs, a seven percent expansion. Their number one.
How can the number one city for this manner manufacturing its expansion is in fact Detroit. He talks about the the auto industry has enjoyed. I quote six straight years of increase sales driven by low interest rates, the need to replace older cars and rising consumer confidence and Michigan were generally which which which which the Radner talks about length Michigan, which sweeps the top replaces on our list. According two cocking of big cities generating the mostly manufacturing jobs. The state has now recovered about forty percent of the manufacturing jobs it lost during the recession. And you can even see on the euro, so you're saying that an infrastructure bag that would create thousands of jobs seems like a ridiculous thing to promote. As opposed to the eight hundred and fifty thousand jobs that have in fact been created without it infrastructure exactly right right. I think it lol
level of all of us to take this very seriously and try to rebut it with facts. But this is essentially an emotive, tribal grunt We have very little in the way of convincing evidence behind at the notion that it's it's very much the same that Republicans have done what they ve imposed their priors on this amorphous phenomenon, which. How real affirms the belief that they have held for you. There is, then that he notes that it, you know any I'd, see credit Ernie running. I've tried his brother or enhanced retirement plans, would somehow, Sir, the revolutionary mood on the right, that's about as convincing coming from Ratner as it is for me and so on, and there is no difference between those two notions that medicate expansion is that why John K sick one Ohio, because the expanded Medicaid, the Obama budgets. He says that the river Publican should have cited the Obama budgets. These are things that gotten nobody's almost no votes
the Senate no nine and thirteen and fifteen when the Republicans control that there's almost no difference from thirteen to fifteen. As far as the votes on the proposed Obama quote on cool budget, the idea that these are the ideas that we should be taking seriously, I think is, is beside the point. The point is not to say: let's explain the Obama phenomenon. The point here is to say through Trump from where the trump phenomenon. Sorry. The point here is to say that we were right all along and you were wrong. That's just simply not have really compelling our I mean that's fine, it's fine! If you believe that you know end and were where this terrible problem trying to isolate on and explain the trump phenomenon. But I think the notion that the trump phenomenon is the result of you simply of a failure to provide enough benefits to whites without a college, education flies in the face of
the reality that whites and blacks and hispanic and everybody in the country are were sip hence, or potential recipients of all the same benefits this is a misunderstanding that the Trump voter seems to have the Trump voter As Walter Russell said said to me, the brilliant sort of american jack of all trades into actual. He said the thing is that you know. Maybe the thing is Republicans are going to have to give their you now this Sir White Base more stuff. That's that's the response to two trump, but you can't give them more stuff. Without giving everybody more stuff and if what they want is more stuff than other people are They're. Not that's not gonna happen. What
they seem to want is some kind of recognition of their pain and their suffering and the unfairness that and the sense that the country has by way from them, and these are all very Morpheus and they're, not obviously, people feel better Or if they have more money in their pocket, but they're not gonna feel better about the sense that country is being taken away from them, demographically and culturally, and am an interest your bank isn't gonna solve that on the on the on the left's part and you know, sort of of the the
republican answers to this, which are often to promote entrepreneurship, aren't gonna answer either, because you're talking about people who are unlikely ever to be onto producers are talking about people who at you who will be people who work for us to produce. So you wanna do want to encourage entrepreneurship, because it can also create and provide jobs. But you can only speak to entrepreneurs. That was the Romney mistake. You can only speak to them and imagine that there are, you know a hundred and forty million people willing to start small businesses. That is just not the way the world works. You noted, I think it's right that there is a sort of synthesis bitter between the the the Bernie Sanders voter in the Donald Trump voter. In so far as their both very relaunch highest. They they want to exact some sort of revenge against some. Unknown phenomenon, be it China, Mexico were bankers, or just somebody who is responsible for their lot in life and to indulge
It is dangerous and to promise that is wrong. There's this is a phenomenon and a sentiment that you can't. You can't give any credence to it. It will only be fire on you, this is not a republican. Little are republican sentiment. That should be indulged, it should be and should be fought right, and you know, and one quick way to realise that this is more about a revenge fantasies and about wanting jobs that have gone missing. If you take something like that, all so people say. Well, you know Trump supporters really one wall there there they are sick of the poorest borders and when and sullen, let's, let's, let's say: ok, fine! What's that? That's it! That's it! That's a take, build a wall having Mexico pay for it. That's that that's that, the revenge part, that's the and that's the part that that's that's the applause line and that's the one did he tweet
every time. There's a comment that comes out of Mexico: the watches got just got ten feet higher. That's that's the revenge! That's that's that the white Paper specifically right makes it and noted that trumpet the Trump release the White Paper to Washington Post, I believe about this in its essentially an ultimatum. It's a gun to the head of the mexican government pay me now or pay later. So you can see. The oddity of this situation is that is that Hillary Clinton, who a politician that most of us, many of us, don't have all that much respect for has very little in the way I've accomplishments during her sent a career and her career secretary of state was largely centred on triviality, secondary and tertiary issues. Could she didn't want to get our hands dirty with the most important issues in foreign policy which were being run out of the Obama White House
you can see how Hillary Clinton is playing a different game. She is playing with centrist game, which is you don't you dont indulge in revenge fantasies and you dont. You don't play the game this way, because you actually think maybe he'll be as an end. You you're not gonna, start out your presidency, you know having basically promoted and indulged trade war, making promises that you can't possibly fulfil, and it's an interesting set of circumstances. Because, generally speaking, any time, a politician looks beyond the race that he's in to the to the condition of governing after him after he or she wins, trouble commences and
Hilary may have miss, read her own parties in a logical hunger that said, if, if she ends up winning the presidency and and hasn't tack too far to the left, you know that will be a benefit to her, because she will not have imprisoned herself in a set of policies like you know, vastly draconian regulations on banking, were you know in foreign policy terms, pudding, climate change at the centre of all Paul.
See rather than you know the advancement of specific american interests and world stability in shipping lanes stability and in making sure that bad actors in the world can interfere with the good working order of the of the planet and unceasing Obama's withdrawal from the world, which appears to be part of the centrepiece of her foreign policy concerns. If you read between the lines and that I'm sure as law, that pleasing to Democrats, who, like american withdrawal from the world and like the notion that we are no longer going to bear all these burdens because you know we need to fix. What's wrong here at home, this being of one of the many ways in which doll trumps policy
is an terminology echoed not classic right wing or conservative or republican thinking, but actually modern, contemporary democratic thinking and liberal thinking, I'm not sure about if there's so much unity between Sanders voters who prefer retrenchment and from voters who, like retrenchment for the fact that it sort of consigns the rest of the world to their Hobson Lot lay a really is sort of a moral victory for Trump supporters I believe that the rest of the world deserves their own chaos and that we shouldn't be footing the bill for and what's more, he entry in trumps own language. All's health authors rights. South Korea has not had total helpful role, fear of waste, should be also demand
from them. Some sort of remuneration for the amount of of stability we ve provided over the course of the last fifty plus years, the post World WAR two in the form of an actual monetary remuneration so that their there is something a little bit more vengeful. I think the Trump phenomenon and the Sanders phenomenon, which really genuinely believes that the United States is the progenitor of most of the world's ill, none of if we were not as if we were to retreat from the world that, a natural order of stability would evolve from its very Howard's in like sort of approach to it
right now, but in the Sanders revenge fantasy is entirely domestic, that is it's against millionaires, billionaires in bankers and those are all. People live in the United States and supposedly arkham pulling the levers and they're making us all. You know like like marrying that, so that's the terrible situation I'd like to end them won the important point which I think is. We are seeing the development, both I think, of the Democratic Party and in the Republican Party of a set of a political responses to the likely results of the nominating process. That is only going to contribute to the instability and in our in our political system over them over the next couple of years, and that is what I would call a stab in. The back
sentiment. You see Trump and his people Paul afford his new, supposedly adult campaign manager, spelling out how TED crew, use of state rules to amass delegates in cease delegates in some places and took you to win delegates in Colorado. Where Trump didn't know pay attention was going on is is illegitimate and therefore, if Trump is denied the nomination, he will deny the nomination because of a stab in the back. He will have been some some evanescent form of republic. Centralized republican power will have denied him and his people their rightful position of power and in the Sanders case of possibly you a more arguable, one of those sanders would have to get his percentage aggregate percentage of the vote way up, since Hillary is still in democratic aggregate
I think fourteen points up on him nationally, like events like fifty six, forty two or something like that, unlike tromp, was still at around thirty seven percent of the aggregate vote. None ass. There saying that the super delegate system that basically handed her the nomination before the race ever began. Practically is fundamentally undemocratic and unfair, and that had had the had the playing field been me and evened out. We would be single much different set of circumstances In both cases, their arguments are illegitimate. The legitimacy of their arguments does not matter and in cruises case intent. Crews, as you could see a circumstance in which, if the republican convention goes to three four ballots Emmett somebody else's chosen. Crews will claim that he was stab in the back by the Republic of establishment because he should have one, because he he was the non trump
I'm revolutionary candidate who fought the hardest have got it did the most did the work and took trump down, and then he denied and so he'll have been stab in the back, and so I think anyway, you slice. This you know we're give us the continuation and of this argument and all of the attendant stuff that we learned about in the aftermath of the success of the tea party, lot of fun, raising Lotta direct mail law a lot of you know a lot of ways saying: oh, my god, look there stealing and again said a dollar seventy five dollars, semi twenty dollars, ah, could be bad. I don't know I mean or call fade away, but I think this notion that it's all good irregular as itself after the conventions is is is, is highly unlikely av heavily, and I also wonder if it's gonna, if this
that's grievance will endure even after the general election. I mean this, that's what I mean, I think a ruined, or for years that causes us. It's a very good, organizing principle for getting money out of people you. I guess the conditions would have to improve further these individuals, who are to have a revolutionary sentiment alone, my biggest frustrations, with the right that the most prominent commentators on the right frankly, most trusted have convinced Republicans that elect ability is a myth based on two data points, two thousand eight and twenty twelve. They have convince them that the Republicans in Congress have done nothing for their benefit, in fact only allow the democratic and agenda to advance, and they take no account of the of the governance from two thousand to twenty. Eleven financial regulatory reform Obama care the stimulus they dance. They don't take into account the fact that that spending that rather
the growth of spending in this government has been halted to a point that I haven't seen in my lifetime and even to the point where you have to leave the repeal of Obamacare that was sent to the president's desk and in early twenty sixteen January and literally the only people who cared for Democrats. I think the only people who noticed for Democrats, the very first time that that the president has gone on record defending his signature, achievement very unpopular against a wave of of of sentiment that has been caused. Throughout the course of this presidency against it, and the very first time that we have an actual moment where he is forced to veto the popular repeal of this legislation, the only people to notice for Democrats and, frankly, that the right that noticed said it's too little too late. So I dont think that it has very as much to do with conditions, as I said earlier, as it does chip with perception, and I think that we need individuals who are more responsible when it comes to creating an accurate priests,
option of the nature of of the reality of the lives of their lots and there's a lot of people who really do believe that they have it really terrible and they haven't more terrible when compared to other people, and I think, a lot of its night- it's not only in accurate, but it's it's. It's a pretty base sentiment and are a lot of people who are irresponsibly. Promoting and promotion of the use of these irresponsible ideas has enriched and empowered a bunch of people who decided they weren't rich enough in war and powerful enough, so they had very little disincentive or they had very little incentive to accept the argument that the New Republic in Congress that they have done so much to promote, might actually have done some good. That's. The astonishing thing is that the argument of the supporters of the tea party that brought the house
still Republicans and the supporters of the same kind of general sense of sentiment, that help will bring the central Republicans four years later, caused them to argue that all of the efforts that were made were failures, whereas in fact, as you say now, there were me negative successes, that is to say you can pass. Distillation, that will be vetoed by president are you can pass it, but it will be vetoed ease of There is a democratic president. He's not gonna he's not going to authorize republican policies that you can stop him, and you know, as I wrote in the aftermath of TAT, he turned the meaning of the TWAIN election was stop there. A fantasy was promoted that there was more to it than stop and
and and that by the way, the notion that Republicans should be looking to government action to solve their problems. Even if its counter government action is itself says, species of corruption, the best thing you can do, or the best that a Republican is supposed to do- is to impede the use of state levers of power. That is what it that's what it means to try to try to halt the than this dynamic to impede the uses of
levers of power to empower individuals as as a result of yet that argument was too has been completely lost. Me say on the state: level is ok. Well, voter ideas have been passed and right to work. Legislation is expanded in places like the upper Midwest RE, never thought it would. On the state level. You can get some traction with these trump voters, who are very much concerned about the growth of government. They think they are but David. They really want to see more action and of the federal government say it. There is an argument to be made that I think resonates, but these aren't just trump voters. This is crews. Ted crews is actually the proper as it is, is the representative figure of this notion that his own election was a failure. Just think about that for a while. His election marker Rubeus election, the election of Vinos, sixty three house members and the fourteen senators them All that was all a failure which really kind of is a bizarre Lee masochistic. Sir,
range political expression, A lot of is based on the facts simply that the Congress pulled badly There is no sense in defending congresses actions, although if maybe, if republicans had defended themselves or heatedly and didn't have this civil war and the radio talk show business attacking Republicans, acting as though the republican efforts in the house and send it we're no different from the democratic efforts in the house and set. It then send them. Might have the House and Senate my room more popular, There was no one defending their actions and no one saying that they were behaving, maybe not heroically butter, and that may be the most defeat. A veto on the things that were the worst were. The
things that were done. Foolishly, bye, bye, bye, the right to be able to make a point. You know the two shutdowns in particular, which were incredibly foolish and and get you still have arguments that suggests that that they warrant, but obviously they were the whole or not, obviously, everybody so so, listen everybody! This has been yet another thrilling and exciting. Finally uplifting Commentary magazine podcast founded in nineteen. Forty five commentary magazine is America's most distinguished monthly magazine. That's bad commentaries, America's most distinguished magazine, of political, intellectual and cultural affairs. Our mission to promote american greatness defend the west of its institutions represent the best that has been thought instead in writing, an argument to the highest level and stand as a bulwark against Anti Semitism in the end. For the jewish state, please join our
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Transcript generated on 2020-02-27.