« Commentary Magazine Podcast

Commentary Podcast: Climbing Down from the Summit

2018-05-24 | 🔗
The Trump-Kim meeting is off, and the question is this: If the announcement of thawing relations with North Korea helped Trump's approval rating, will this hurt or harm it? And why won't Trump trumpet the bipartisan legislative successes of the past few weeks? Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary magazine podcast today Use Thursday May twenty fourth, twenty eighteen, I'm John but words the other commentary. The seventy seven year old, monthly of intellectual analysis, political, probably in cultural criticism. From a conservative perspective. We invite you to join us. A commentary magazine dot com, where we give you a few free reads of the Nazca to subscribe, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five for a digital subscription. And twenty nine. Eighty five for that all access subscription, including our beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times a year.
With me. As always, a green wild, our senior editor high Abe, I dont nor Rossman, are associate after high. Now I John and senior writer Sorra Memorial, Sorra Pelagia, so Big news is that their Donald Trump has cancelled, pulled out, ended thee. A piece of our time, North Korea summit in Singapore, scheduled for June twelfth. And in so doing basically said do we bury you better, not try to test ask as we got a lot more nuclear than you. So why this Sir three month, two three four, it'll. Fantasy it'll that somehow Trump had broken the secret of I had a negotiated with foreign powers some and was gonna, be no change. The whole nature of diplomacy and our time seems to have
foundered on the shores of the run, the rocky shoals of reality Aber, but he make this well, I'm in Europe. I mean everyone really fell hard for, for the event, be the the meaning that never happened. Some of the never happen especially went once you got all the visuals involved of of of Kim meeting up with with the south and everyone really got like very hopeful sentimental, and there is also this feeling that sister of Kim Oh that's right. Yet it was a yes so now as before the meeting right, yeah Manette when it, but it was all part of the feeling that something had changed there had been a sea change. Here there is a will. There were some. And of emotional spiritual, changed and I think part of what drove the well. Maybe trumped knows. What he's doing here was that prior to that was this idea
that trumps going to brag boast us into a conflict. You know he's being so reckless that he's having this this macho put down fast on Twitter with Kim and he's playing with fire, and then they when, when it came about that there is going to be some sort of summit. This is now he maybe he knows what he's doing in a one. In truth, the north korean leader would always want to have a would want to be seen to be a summit partner would be with you, Why? Because you have the world's highest pipsqueak, already right, yeah, smallest economy right, you have the number one economy in the world in the most important country and a country that only important because it is a threat Gatt.
I think everybody around the stables and only people who were really over the moon for what we are about to see happening. This thing was brought from the beginning. Probably the mismanaged from minute one. The overture came from deep your k in the present and accepted it within the hour of its receipt. There was no like work. There were no mutually agreed upon objectives. The CIA and the State Department began to do some late work through palm pale, making some trips over there and we'll get some really overtures, but it wasn't clear that we have any mutually agreed upon objectives. What Kim's focus was on was logistics where he was gonna refuel. But the plane was was gonna. Do he he was the antlers. Some concerns over the distance, that This travelling away from deep your care, because his internal domestic position is relatively weak, so maybe he's afraid of a coup. He had given up a couple of things. This non working nuclear test site, which was really not much
a concession at all, an surrendering hostages, which was well a concrete gesture in the direction of the United States. Again, not a concrete gesture in the form of anything substantial. Because that's why you take hostages to hold for ransom within and give them up without giving anything away really the whole prospect was probably really fraught and where we're better of that, isn't happening, and now we have to hear about how terrified we should be over the prospect of Kim deteriorating domestic position, because now he's given up all listen with exchange without any reciprocity from really the west. We haven't really given him anything. We had a bunch of economic assistance on the table, but is now not forthcoming, so we have to be afraid over. They hardly to his back kim- is the really the negotiating partner that we have in our quest for peace on the peninsula. To that I say so, what Look one major thing you have to say is that we had only one interest. In negotiating with the north
regime which was to de nuclear Arise North Korea. Now We have no other interests, Lebanon, Syria was. We have the interest of. Changing the Gabriel on the ground in the korean Peninsula, so that our troops could come home after you now sixty five years, but that's not. You know and that's not serve like form foremost at the top gender, and so there was In short of that no summit, could have been a success for us all but a been, was a kind of regular cessation of North Korea and the idea that it, stood in some fashion at a level comparable, to the United States, What's interesting of horses, that North Korea, Blue, is the one blew up the summit it started last week
with this notion that they should pull out, because we were having military exercises with South Korea and then it serve ended with I'm just hurling, insulted MIKE Pence last night, which apparently is why trampled out, so well that provided an opportunity for from two to dig out of this thing he started and frankly, it was a really welcome move in uncharacteristically nimble. His part, there is a lot of sunk costs on the part of the Donald Trump and his people around them? They were entertaining the prospect of a Nobel Peace Prize that really buying their own hype. They had printed out these really silly. Coins are commemorating the event I mean there was some real high expectations for this things over them, the back out of a losing proposition and cut bait cut their losses as a real market verbs some strategic depth. Look who doesn't want a coin? We all want a coin. That coin is the homeless Wagner baseball card of our time.
Holy Wagner was an early baseball player who refuse to allow his face. They printed some key. And then he was against smoking in the cards, them didn't come and bubble gum packs, but in cigarette backs, and he didn't want his. Himself associate with cigarette smoking, so here We still have a card to be printed. There are like twenty five of them in existence and they sell for millions of dollars. I dont have millions of dollars.
I have some friends of millions of dollars and if I were one of them, I bet you. One of them is going to figure out a way to get themselves that coin, because that coin is a special. It's a total killer syrup way in so I was fascinated by the kind, as as all of you were, and sullen pointed out on Twitter, that it added an extra chin to give young who, as in others, is big Giles, but he doesn't have that extra chin. Where were the quaint depicted it? So I agree with all of you. I think we we called this. I hate to take her collect a you know too.
The one ushering in the collective victory lap, but it this was an as as illusory and as dangerous a prospect as President Obama's dealings with IRAN. It was framed oddly enough, has no appointed out by normally sensible, even normally sensible, Republicans, as there are hard liners and soft liners in the young Yang regime, and if only we could empower that soft liners than farmers that aids all interest, all deja vu all over again and them so EDA good riddance, because this is not frankly, not how you deal with a regime like you're, not gonna, you're, not going to solve that problem with summitry we have written in history, really only have a few examples of of summits and there either failures or abject disasters. I can't really think of a good.
Summit with Norway. I've read orientation is between adviser relations. You disqualified it, but there are ones that happen that are pointless. Like the various g He, whatever meetings is Julia. Bilateral exclude If we bilateral cemetery between two ever cereal powers- and basically we only have the Soviet Union and the United States in Vienna was an absolute disaster and you get Geneva Reykjavik, we're just kind of failures, and then there was then, there were then there was the bizarre break out of shuttle diplomacy and in which you have a negotiation between two warring parties, in which the Secretary of State aid it states or like travels between them and says they say this is ones as that they say this is what does that Kissinger dead? John Kerry. Did it worn Christopher? Did it The thing about these meetings is that they are was. Why am I
long standing things about peace, peace in the Middle EAST, peace, general peace? a condition of the spirit and soul. It is not the end result of negotiations. Negotiation so if a nation wants peace and the other nation wants peace, peace is achieved. Then the question is under what terms will be legal relationships between these nations and the things that caused the conflicts, some of them, Britain's. How do you file them away? Or how do you serve soften them so that the so that the whatever happened, the hostilities can turn into maybe even friendships. That is what he says so summits. It was the idea that you can talk yourself into peace. It is a foolish idea. It's never been true,
economically or in militarily or geopolitically, that if a country comes to the summit prepared to make peace if the camp David, if said dot and Bacon and Carter ART David there. They are successfully because The dog had already decided that there was going to be peace between Egypt and Israel, and is Bill had decided that it was gonna, take whatever pretty close to whatever, so that wanted, because this was such an important thing that was not because of Camp David Camp David, just ratify ratio bullet right, but by the way I would go for in that there is an idea among many on the left, that not only will the process of summitry convince and add
sorry to become an ally of some sort or to get on the same page as you in terms of peace, but that even if they don't, as as was the thinking that that sorts predominate need Balboa, Madrid in the and nearer Randal, even if around doesn't really want peace. If we just at some sort of deal down and They see the benefits of this deal: peaceful sort of transport They will therefore there will be a slow but steady shift, and I will I will change the thinking in time who are the adversaries that too, that sort of thinking the hardliners right right and they have their high learn and we have our heart hated and where and when we're allied we're back to work to know it because we are, we are being told somehow that whatever pie Positive moves were being made by North Korea seem to have been impeded by the rise of bit mystical hard law. There is in the regime to the right of Kim Jong NAM.
Or as we know that will meet with alarm or giraffe, maybe there Maybe there are to be who knows article two things you know the Paris peace talks which took place over the course of three years during the Vietnam WAR, the Paris peace talks, I think, was Vernon Walter's. It was one of the negotiators who said that the Vietnamese would happily sit for six months negotiating over the shape of the table. So what does that about? That's about the talks being dilatory. Most of the time people enter these talks, because the talks are awake
maybe a way of delaying details or delay the inevitable or their their part of a war, our warrior strategy. Now I think, it's perfectly fair to wonder whether, in the case of North Korea, we can't quite discern what it was that made them start you now waving happily toward the south and making these gestures towards the south and started to make gestures towards us and what it was that may them pullback whether the pull back was part of a longer term strategy. Now think there was an idea abroad. Once we found out that the tests cited of their time sighed. The mountain had had collapsed in on itself that maybe they were in a desperate condition and they were served negotiating a hail Mary because they hated aid, nothing else and they didn't have the resources to rebuild the test site. It's hard to look at what happened now and say that that that-
haven't. You may not have been true, but you know they have their own ideas and they also have. There is the complication of of of China sitting there. We every one in the West has thought that the smart thing to do is empower China to negotiate with North Korea, as they are the only ones You have real leverage against North Korea and the Chinese were like. We do know the womb Liberia. We can't do anything. What can we do the work? thing that may come out of. This is a positive for the United States is if the summit collapses. North Korea There were sitting there may be China will rush into the breach may be. China will see an opening to enhance its own geostrategic position by serving the world the idea that they have dinner clue rise. North korea- I don't know
Why too came has been shuttling back and forth between Beijing now for some time in preparation for this meeting, making pretty ostentatious trips in his armoured train in order to reinforce the sore the relationship between Beijing and young because it was pretty restrained. They were very frustrated by the idea that there would be a bilateral relationship here because they print they treasure there. There stature in Pyongyang, but I suppose I am I mean, but the idea that the idea that kinsman has been weakened here, because this was accepted. Without any game work, and then it was with some. They all drug was pulled out from under him. What have you and now that this is happening even as reporters are gathered, today at this very moment at the closing of that meeting, the implosion of these tunnels and this this gesture he, was supposedly given the United States has been met with the closed fist. That's gonna be
his position in Pyongyang into that. I say absolutely great: why would we care? Why would The care with generals are supposedly going to succeed him in the event of a coup. This is a monarchy. This is it regime that has been handed down to violate the sun. Dentist easy before semi mystically we're religious see, no sun King in the emblem of the unknown when it comes to these, Rotarian regimes has been as typified the diplomatic communities approach to these negotiations and it inevitably simplifies the situation. I think, to a degree that doesn't do anybody any favours if we were terror five fur, most of the life of the Soviet Union, of the hardliners who were going to execute a coup and real oh Stalinism and when they did the whole thing crashing down. Well, so
One interesting aspect of this is that the aggregate for five percent pole jump that Trump has enjoyed in the last couple of months seems to have coincided with the announcement of the North Korea talks. I wanna things it penetrated outside the in out hyper informed bubble in which we live out to people who don't pay. That close attention was that in our he had dramatically somehow brought the North Koreans to the table and that this was something that seem to be an unemployed good. He got old high marks. He went from Democrats on his handling of north korean. All of that. So the question is how we,
the public? How will the american public will react to this if they were so excited about the thought of this, the lowering of tensions and the cessation of hostilities and the possible deal with North Korea? Will it hurt Trump that that's no longer on the table while lay out the? Why not scenario? I think that is reasonable for the american people to seek to look at what transpired and say. Look, our president did everything possible he was, but he he meant it a coin. He
he acts of the coins, but but he was willing to sit down with it with this monstrous regime, and it was for all sorts of reasons. It was the big Kim regime that, ultimate by its own inner logic, scuttled things in and you know, destroyed the prospect of an agreement. So I don't see why people would say that this is a big enormous from failure and therefore would would punish him at the guest on an opinion polls, because it was actually a failure. I mean either I mean I understand, that side of it that he you you don T tried and failed rice. Also, therefore, we hey he's, he's a man of peace, but he saw it. He also I mean, if you read, and that not everyone can read the letter that Trump issued that Trump sent to him cancelling the the summit, but I mean
he looks foolish and the letter is foolish and silly and them semi illiterate. I just don't think you can make the claim that it's good for him when he makes moves towards the North Koreans for peace, and that is good for him. When the summit collapses, they live. Then everything is good for him. If it goes well, it's good river goes badly, it's good for him and ate it hard for me to imagine. I can see the hardline people like us think. Well, this is better for him than the than the alternative, but I dont know that we're really reflective of the general American now much more disengage, less you know
the american population? Also, it will we have yet to see how he shapes the EP aftermath. I mean if, if, if he goes, if we revert back to little rocket man tweets and what not that will be, I think bad for him, because no unlikely to begin with now it looks especially petulant. A right and an could feed into the general sense that, after a couple of months of some reasonable, either successes or so dramatic moves to change the status quo like the embassy move last week, and then you know some suffered, we'll talk about a minute with no about legislative successes that he's retreating into his. You know yelling and people on Twitter and going back to culture. Wars on twitter, as opposed to
being more presidential, obviously other supping going on like those of a naughty Cohen's stuff and more Mahler stuff in the vice done all that, but Those areas you I'm much of the public or the Iranian really comfortable to be around deals. Abrogation right, So I'm just saying, but even there he is acting at a presidential level. He is abrogated the IRAN deal. You know it's a serious move and edit it here. Since his stature, whereas if his son collapses and then he insults on twitter. I'm not sure that that enhances the stature of it doesn't reduce him again to the level of a kind of them. You know that the people who love that he Elsa people on twitter we'll be fine, but those aren't those at the people who didn't love the elder people on Twitter. The reason that his pole numbers went from forty five percent
in February of seventeen to thirty two percent at the end of December. Those at the vote Action of those people from his support base largely anything outta, the Twitter culture war yelling screaming stuff, if he He retreat into it for his comfort level. That, do I mean? Maybe your rights or buy things change and and We can also established that that's his new normal and that people are go attack him for it. I mean that I haven't. We know this that had the summit gone forward and they had could claim some illusory garbage achievement. We'd all be screaming about how dangerous in and wrong headed is, but it would have been each Jordan. Really popular and that that would have helped him so leave it in the at the very least he's not he's not getting the hat or have gone to the summit and left soberly and said: yeah,
he sat down, which is what I meant or offer they countered they will not give up their nuclear weapons. I cannot in good conscience, make a deal with them. I get, we tried, we tried and its on them, that failed. I think that would have been better. We what we are talking here about what happened after the Reykjavik summit, that notes obviously totally different thing between Reagan and Gorbachev, and ninety five, when the possible total elimination of nuclear weapons from the face of the earth was on the table. In theory a hundred Louis read to a hundred each well. Britain and France would not have been a part of that. A green okay, but anyway there were the process, the conceptual framework that Gorbachev was tempting Reagan with was, let's get rid of it.
Nuclear weapons and finally, and at the end Reagan said I cannot do this now. Gorbachev really only did it because he noted SD, I was coming and then as soon as they left Reykjavik, George SALT Secretary of State said because it was viewed as a failure, although they said well, we have some new cultural contacts and it wasn't a failure from our perspective, because one of the cultural context was Reagan going to Moscow, which he didn't ninety seven, and then he made this extraordinary speech of Moscow State University. That was a key moment ends in in helping revivify or or democracy movement that help bring down the Soviet Union for years later, but as they left, it was thought to have been a great depressing failure that they that they came with no new change is in the nuclear relationship and George Salts pestered. Reporters on the plane said
misunderstand. I have never been prouder of my president He was in terror. That gives due Gorbachev Reagan, we're alone at some point and that that was when Gorbachev sprung, listen Reagan out of that Reagan and I think a serious summit negotiation that ends in an american president, even one who is as controversial and unpopular with so many people is tromp saying I could not in good conscience, make a deal it's better than saying, I can't even go to the summit with them, which is what he should have thought in the first place. Shall we say I mean, maybe I'm not sure the info but the salt statement which I'm reading here, which includes that I have never been so proud of my president, as I've been sessions, and particularly the afternoon lead immediately into this enumeration of all the things they achieved at the Roma, which is not always
impulse the impulses to say that this was a failure, and I agree that all other stuff I was that wasn't reykjavik. But I was There- and I tell you that the general perception was that summit was a great, was a failure because they had not come to any now by the way, not a failure. If you were a neo con hawk right who believe that any deal with the Soviet Union was a deal with the devil, so that was a different set of circumstances offers us that's. We were celebratory about a, but that was the general mainstream feeling. Let's say I mean get that the impulse here is to take advantage. I think of of America's allies, which seems to be that with what we, what President's do these days of the extent to which the only real loser hears the President Moon in South Korea, who has been jerked around
I was shocked by this summit, who was not informed of its cancellation, whose job approval rating is sky high because he is being seen as the exit, being the sunshine policy that has been the basically the the regime there? The presidency's policy since. Since it was a democratic regime, not not a military dictatorship and What what's gonna happen to his domestic position is really the most concerning thing, I think, from like if anybody, the values that relationship but beyond that, hardly anything bad he's he's a man who is even by by the standards of the Sunshine policy, he's the hum. Switch he's where he's a square up to scratch Saddam's. I remember he hears the follow on to Only little rather than corrupt press and see, and he kind of ran a sunshine and rainbows thing about how you know he would come in and he would be nicer. They would make a nicer deal with North Korea.
And I'm not sure that that's you know we don't need another just in shadow on the world's well. I don't know If that is not really about verbal but yeah, I would just say: keep here. You know, keep your powder dry on anything on any south korean leader, because it's not the record of whole hearted them? It is valuable for as long as voted through to present these. The current presidency as the face of negotiations with North Korea at times not usually, I know generally not in favour of a lot of our relationship with South Korea, salaries and important country in the world. It's a vibrant, democratic, democratic country with a lot of corrupt politicians and and it's an important ally of ours. I'm just saying that I don't know moon is a one, is an unknown quantity agenda and that we should be caught in out be crying for him like let him
You know he he was also somebody who's efforts, advance this new image of the north korean state as being something that you could deal with. You know I'm a very curious to see what happens in terms of the Trump administrations posture towards North Craig on forward, because, if you take in the totality of the way the trunk. Has acted towards north creates a very bizarre course. I mean there with a worthy knows. There is all the name calling in and the rock Emma the iron fury, iron, very name calling and the real threat you come anywhere near awesome. We will, we will destroy you and then there is the very strange way that North Korea was handled during his trumps. State of the union where he went on a long indictment of North Korea and equally of its human rights violations and championing dissenters, and
as we were abused by the way he had that he had that. That's right in the gallery. He paid tribute to this north korean defector. Yet who had been may man by the recent absolutely and then and then I think, someone ominously never announced an actual policy, just sort of left it there at that, and then there's all this. There's this explosion of peace talks and, and- and you know, all the flowers and rainbows that we have been witnessing over these last months, where this is going on, and is it it's a really kind of a bizarre well series of of takes. This is an improper, is a tory presidency. I mean every time you want to impose like our four. Walter Russell me do someone I respect greatly, is attempting to construct a superstructure for trot sworn policy that brings in China the economic things trade and How is reacting to North Korea? Matt continuity, who writes
as you know, was saying the trumps great strength as a strategic ambiguity. That is enhanced role than hurt by the current pull out from the summit. But you know, I think Trump Brian two things in real time and decides that you know he's not throwing good money. After batteries, not gonna do actually is not going to do why and doesn't think about how it into an overall I've read theoretical, as theoretical minded with people would like to be so tab. Limburg was my oldest and closest friend at a peace in that whilst regional yesterday in what she said Trump had to abrogate. The IRAN deal in order to go ahead with any kind of negotiation with North Korea Lowell maybe he's So it makes sense that the EU would say that you know Kim couldn't come to the table, say I need as much as IRAN has or maybe not he felt
I see, no reason to believe that trumpet necessarily connect the two and discuss just cause. I wish that one could impose this kind of clarity- but I just think it's it's more- are desperate- wished to have a clear foreign policy them that there is a clear foreign policy sees me. Noah, you had a great posts the other day. I thank you. You're welcome called politics not paranoia once it tell everybody what you're central thesis while I try not to cough sure say yesterday, there was a little bit of legislative activity in Congress, we passed a reform bill that would roll back a substantial man of regulations in the Dodd Frank Financial Reform ACT of two thousand and twenty ten
They passed in the house with a resounding bipartisan margin, a prison reform. Bill, which raises a little rocky future, because it's not it doesn't go far enough really for Republicans in the Senate, who want to see sentencing reform as well as some prisons forms amenities, and what have you in some extension of privileges to inmates and dumb? The thesis essentially was that this is the result of gears of labor, of making a case of pursuing incremental policy solutions to this and doing so in a very concise It way that didn't overmatch expectations with what you can see on the ground and didn't ignore, didn't abandon the political process as though it were not naive and worthless pursuit and, for example, the the regulations that we pursued on the Dodd Frank, rolling
God Frank really does lifts alot of restrictions on banks with less than fifty million dollars and fifty billion dollars and assets which were small community banks, which are really forced out of the marketplace by Dodd Frank, which means the latter regulations on on certain banks and the only banks, a gorilla absorb these costs were the mega backs. They J, P, Morgan, chases banks of Amerika the things that were supposedly too big to fail. Dodd Frank made those banks bigger Applicants have been making that argument for a decade and yesterday they won the argument and the progressive response has been to alleged vast conspiracy has been ongoing here. That has finally flowered that these special interests working behind closed doors in paying off legislatures finally got what they were paying for. This is what Centre Elizabeth Warren said, that's paranoia has not politics. Similarly, Republicans who might be frustrated by the prison reform effort would be shocked to see
Donald Trump, the law and order president, the new law and order President consenting to all this, because these arguments have been made for years and they finally were one in its shorter. What I got out at the Peace in last month's issue, which is the fatal, is conceit which undervalues the political process in favour of these self serving conspirators. You'll narratives about how the political process doesn't work. When an absolutely does it just takes a lot of work and nobody to do all that work, they want to see their objectives materialise overnight. And yet, you're, not really seeing a lot of celebration from Republicans Republicans have a lot to celebrate, So let's talk about this Paul Ryan is trying to celebrate it. Yes, he is whole rioting, give a press conference at which he tried to tat these matters, but the person who makes it impossible for Republicans to celebrate its trump, let's list of what they have to celebrate everybody for we do that. All I want to say is this, which is that
there is this movement- you're saying that they are so cracked the ice and are are getting by partisan movement, which is kind of startling in some of these areas, Dodd Frank by the way was by partisan, the house and a two thirds majority in the Senate approved these matters right So the question is what narrative this trump want, Ordinarily, a president would want to rush to the microphones and say we are getting things done in Washington. We are up ending the you know, no can't get anything done, you know, ineffectual, you know, hidebound landlocked congress and things are changing and and good things are happening for prisoners for
small local country, bankers, like you know it's like George Bailey and it's a wonderful life for all that and trumpet, doing that because it's not the narrative. The trump wants. Trump is not comfortable with the positive narrative. That's what's interesting. They couldn't talking about not just out francs rollback but a rip, a bill that reforms that the aid which also pass Congress legislation that allows terminally ill patients to try medications and have not had FDA approval right is dry. It's called the White House did obviously the ran deal and move the Jerusalem embassy, and then they affected these changes to title nine, which essentially strip public funding from organisations that advocate, portions of that sort of a simplification of the measure, but it is an effect, would that rule will do and the White House actually sent out communications talking points on Monday to its ally,
saying in a push this thing really hard, because it's a big risk for us and it's a big conservative victory and conservatives want to talk about. They want to talk about the NFL and how the latter should be deported fell. This is where you're being on no. No! No! No! No! No! No! I don't think so, and I am- and I would add the spy thing that we talk about on Monday to this list of grievances. I'd like the conservative media market is pushing these issues, but the interim following them the way I wish the president of the President's went up in front of a microphone and said this is what you are not being told by the liberal media. What you're not being told by the liberal media is that Trump The Republicans and Democrats on the hill are finding common ground. We are getting,
things done. We are changing for five years or for six years nothing got done in Washington under Obama. He was unable to make any kind of move we ve made jet. You know we Kai in Congress. Democrats are coming toward Republicans in agreeing to certain things, and this is a real change and it's great. And you know when you're thinking ahead to voting in November, twenty eighteen think about how we're getting desolation past and nothing ever got past. But that's not what he wants. Document says he's going on Fox and friends this morning and saying that football players who don't who, though, Don't stand for the anthem shouldn't be in this country. That's trompe
talking about winning a major victory from the Anna fell by the way, which basically said they would find players substantially and teams. If they engage in that kind of protest, he one. What is he doing he's moving the goalposts even further to have this battle to keep this battle? Allow he he did tat the the title: nine orders centrally that at that bars grill ten out of ten sorry. He did tat that a decision be Anthony dinner. I think Lastline recover nights ago. That's the same thing that I'm talking about, because that is not a bipartisan uncensored. Certainly that was a unilateral executive action meant to shore up in please, baby. I'm talking about saying, president long prison reform, Dodd, Frank. I don't care what Elizabeth Warren says they got, they got eighteen
I got two. As you said, they got only two hundred and sixty two, fifty nine. I think it s got twenty seven, the unrest in the house and they got another seventeen or team senators democratic centres, the vote for this. We haven't seen this. We haven't seen this happened a long time like. Not. Since I don't remember when I mean this is a key, this is a win. This was passed in twenty ten. This was a big deal. This was ever if this was a a moment of celebration for Progressives and Democrats, because it was the first legislative achievement that addressed what they say, where the causes of the two thousand financial year. I know what it is a perfect champion theme where he can say because of these complex regulations- and I know so many people in in business small business, especially where in it they have made it first, while very difficult for small business to get loans, and it's very it's made it. It's
is choked off a lot of small banks that are in the main street banks of the only people who can afford to deal with the mountains of paperwork that, under Dodd Frank, gender is generated by each transaction or the big. So really had a totally unintended consular. The classic unintended consequence of large scale legit It was not intended by liberals that that what you would do is empower larger ones machines and cement their centrality enow, as opposed to smaller scale institutions. But that's what happened, because that's because the unintended consequences of gigantic pieces of legislation you learn, after tat, people warned that it might happen, but it did happen happened enough that you know a third more than a third of the democratic caucus in the Senate voted to relax. These
rule. So this would be a better try drug, but it's not the perfect european cause. He can say. Let's the Tribune theme you want, you want him to be the deregulatory prevented Sairly. He wants to be the column Capron at present, but he can say aching say. Look I broke. The holy alliance. I actions in them, but it only What's so crazy couldn't be both? Couldn't he couldn't, he mean One assumes you waste of time during the course of the day that he could tickets or we could tat. He could but the achievement and then go on, we were taken rent and not the is as a substantive matter. I fire repugnant that he bigoted aiming, throws out comments all the time we were. If you don't want to save her leg, you better not be in the country, and he did it minutes after he was talking about Amis. Thirteen who are genuinely in
use animals because there are humans, but their evil, vile human beings, football players who don't Neil at their who don't stand for the national anthem, are not comparable terms. Thirteen, citing substantively what he said and the way he tied them, whether consciously or not, was was repulsive, but I do think he had. He can drive the cultural point, because every time it's put as a cultural, a blank cultural test to the left, they fail right. Like date, they dealt, they don't just say yes above shares. Should then it's a national anthem. Whatever our disagreements about policy, we should stand for the anthem, thousands of them a brave young men and women- have died from. Flagon that anthem so stand up for it, and then you can protest before or after. I think that's fine. It would be totally unable to see why conservatives should have been a lot more skeptical of the animals comment, even though that really resonated all over the place and everybody loved it because civic propriety and whether the guy says at the bar.
Are almost always antithetical and why we should expect more from our president's because it and it doesn't stop there and when we start going down these roads and start normalizing ahead, use that term normalizing. Out looks on certain areas where I will say is that in the it's not healthy envy in, I hate to be let in the heartland of the meal of whatever the idea that Emma's thirteen is unequivocally evil and that everyone should come out, and you say whatever you so it's what words you one used to denounce them. You should end that you should stand for the flag. Those are supremely kind of popular unimpeachable course, because the threat they pose is minimal basically doesn't exist. The last murder confirmed by amendments thirteen number was an April of twenty seventeen. Ok, however, our lives even moves are to stand in for granting there's an interest as well as I harshly, but they are.
They are brutal, unlike in soft county, there's, a lot of brutal activity and burglaries and vile, and not killings, but violence. On the other hand, on long island, you know the murder rate is down thirty percent. So, by the way you can have. Crime rising without murder, rising, it's not all about killing, but here I would say Trump, has a very simple cultural. Or procedure in place and the Democrats and the liberals are his foiled and he is very simple. He's Lucy Van Pelt and he's got a cultural football, and he says, look here the NFL here's the Amis, thirteen or animals. I'm terrible just the worst person in the world. Why don't you come and kick my culture more football and win the game?
and they run up and he pulls it away from them and they fall down like Charlie Brown every single time now, I don't how during it is, they fall. He's like your column. Animals you're like while we can column animals, it's terrible. Its veto were dehumanizing people and the death and then He says, I'm a call mammals twice governmental, three times what you forgot about the ETA. Belle, comes out and says. Mr President, we ve come out with a new policy, really terrific, so we're gonna tell them they can go into the locker room If they meal and fry the cameras, then they're gonna find, but if they are gone, the lock room no will see the meal will be nothing and it's like ho ho ho. This is, hate. Let me Cuba had culture, war, football, buddy boy is to be kept them all pavlovian Yet the pavlovian response come kick it and then he pulls it away from them.
And then there like. Yes, there, People say: oh, this is really terrible, it's awful and its terrible, but In the end, it's like what you're not calling drug dealers animals animals is too good for them, animals at least don't her own, there was that amateur animals of kindness is home and and this is just gonna, go on forever. Until this is a social media thing. It's just a kind of got instinct response trumps. That's like what? Oh, my god now, I'm with you now I think this is very corrosive of a veto of civil propriety and keeping us a good common culture but it appears that a popular thing, but I appear appears that ship assailed, I would say, common culture- begins with common symbols and and the anthem and the flag of the common symbols.
And it's the left, as you know why, here without now, I'm gonna now and I gotta go puke in the corner, because This whole thing was that with everybody coming out and standing for the flat in in in football, so everybody a baseball raves at baseball. It was. There was no anthem at football games from what I read when the? U S, mill Terry began, investing enormous sums of money in football advertising. It asked. The ever fell to start having an anthem where the football players would put their hands on their hearts in the ninety nine. These not an american it makes it easier than advertising traditionally makes it even more. The trajectory of this is going to be now that, because the sore up the hill Spirit, your yearns for self expression- and I think you would agree with that- and so these football players are going to make it their mission to find some other way to protest.
Why? Wouldn't anybody and then Donald Trump is going to position against that an Winning the arguments that was he's better orbiting, I really feel that it is corrosive. As you said he saw. I do agree with you that Trump wins. The argument I am not so sure the trump wins. The argument, I think, he's really these hazards, No, but I'm saying here's the thing you we may say Trump wins the argument because he makes the left expose itself as having foolish opinions about certain types of things that don't you know, comport with a general american understanding of patriotism. All that. But if you just picks foot, he spent a year twenty seventeen picking fights and it did not go well for him and for the law. Three months. That has not been his game, for whatever reason I mean he's a fight with you know the deep state and with
FBI and all of that, but he has not picking fights with low work. But one the totem pole in America than he lapping fights with the military with a military place he's had picking fight with a football player. You that's good, that's been good for you. And I think this is a temptation for him. It's bad, maybe bad for liberals, but it may be worse for him. I think it's actually completely visceral for him and emotional alarmed. I don't think it's it's a matter of strategy at all. I He was there the whole. He has his hackles up a bad about the NFL in a way that that's just beyond my ability to two to sympathize with and he's the he can not. He not put together in imitation of graciousness at a moment like that and say our warm glad they came around its good. Everyone should sampling
forget this guy, you so patriotic. He s a wonderfully loving of his country that he went on the super bowl. With Bill O Reilly and said that we are no better than Russia, as we kill people too, that the man who resists cysts that everybody stem our flag. Well, you know I'm not gonna. Take his battery at face value. That's that's! That's nonsense is perfectly. Willing to deploy horrible anti americanism of its own visceral manner whenever he sees fit me. I was part of his campaign in twenty fifth eminent and I'm not even convinced that he that he wants to. You knows, dig back into the cultural war as as strategic manner either. In terms of you know, the did in order to re as met way of wrapping up for mid term. I think this is this is with one of those,
things that that it pushes his buttons and and he's off to the race alternately. They can convert this so unsatisfying because it isn't politics, it's not activism. There's no legislative objective to achieve there's no end game. No victory can be achieved here. It is all just positioning and anxiety, it's not as if this is the civil rights movement, where we have some sort of a legislative act. If that were seeking to change its just positioning, would involve better. You have to stare emphasis or you're gonna get thrown out countries. The hats, the legislative I want. I want freedom Kafka's right now to be drafting that bill those guys this army darn it. I don't know about our stand for that anthem and others, not horn monistic is yours. Damning for the anthem or you're gettin you're gettin. From that plane to Pyongyang
and I mean I'm- not I'm not exactly sure what Dante Stallworth hopes to achieve by sitting for the national anthem. One is the legislative aim that we are seeking to effect here, no, the bottom line is, it is all just positioning and that's why everybody so angry about it, because nothing will come of it now That's why everybody's angry about it. I think I hear what you in your piece the Federalist could see. You lay out the ways in which this is depressing and and loss of life sucking for the people who fall prey to it it's also very seductive, and it has the advantage of being something that is easy rather than hard right. Legislating is hard getting to getting too. Yes is high, Making compromise is hard yelling at me, on Twitter is easy kneeling, so that half the country supplied are no man. The ratio is there
have you been racial yeah, the ratio burn. Explain what the ratio is, so the ratio is there are when you, when you to eat something after you tweet it people either comment people. Like it? They can like it comment on it or they can just comment on it. If you have, if you see a tweet, this particularly controversial- and it says something like this- there are three likes which is a little heart, and twenty seven hundred comments? You are had shrubberies, you are in bad trouble, whereas if you have like fifty comments- and thousand likes. That's a good ratio, so watch the ratio, please
by the way, are very pleased that he very much a lot of people were. We did this special pie cast yesterday on the passing of Philip brought on the meaning of Philip broth, without an a lot of very, very nice comments about it, personal and on and on social media, and and that that just let me take a minute to ask you yet again to go to Itunes and leave a review, because once again, Jonah Goldberg is pretending that his remnant, podcast is more popular, must pay cast, and I don't know where he gets that idea from just from download numbers and reviews and comments, but you know popularity is really in the eye of the beholder. So I don't accept this. I consider this fake news. Our crowd is much larger than Jonas are inaugural crab, much larger dollars an hour ago proud. And if you leave some comments, maybe you can give provides some moderate so moderate
a factual support for this the grand assertion that I'm making, but that's very important, because so I he just he just he keeps acting so uppity and I just can't let it stand so for a green law nor Rossman and Sore Memoriam John TAT Horrid keep the camel.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-12.