« Commentary Magazine Podcast

Commentary Podcast: Is Trumpism Starting to Take Shape?

2017-02-23 | 🔗
On the last of this week's podcast, the COMMENTARY crew discusses the problems with the new deportation policies, ventilates on the Democratic National Committee's race for chair, and wonders whether Trump is wooing the conservative movement or whether the conservative movement has already surrendered its purity to his seductions. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Some guy Welcome to the commentary magazine podcast today is Thursday February Twenty Third, two thousand and seventeen I'm John Podhoretz, the editor of Commentary magazine the seventy two year old, monthly of probity, intellectual insight, cultural commentary. Please join us at commentary magazine dot com where we offer you a few free reason to ask you to subscribe for ninety nine, five for a year for digital Subscription and twenty or twenty five for all. Says commentary complete, including our beautiful monthly magazine, delivered right to your mail box,
with me. As always a green walled, our senior editor high, Abe Hygiene and Knowest see Rossman are, associate editor high, now gone. Ladies and gentlemen, The President United States and his people have announced a newly aggressive strategy for the deportation of undocumented, immigrants illegal aliens. How are you call them. That involves hiring fifty thousand new border, brutal and immigration and customs enforcement agents and a very broad policy according to which pretty much anybody who is stopped for any kind of offence can be simply taken through our across the border, with the exception of children who were brought here by their by their illegal parents who are to be exempted from from this. This
The very very broad policy- and you have the weirdness of the Trump people that trying to have a both ways. On the one hand, they want to claim that what they are doing is fulfilling a campaign promised to get a lot more aggressive about fighting illegal immigration and the immigrants daily limits were here and on the other hand, they want to claim that this is some form of continuity with the Obama administration, which was in fact heightened and stepped up deportation to the tune of about seventy thousand people a year in the last over the last four years, which is a pretty significant number. So Noah ventilate a little bit on this. For us all, there was a Robin see over whether or not the Obama administration was really performing this these deportations, because they had an expansive definition of what deportation men. Basically, they also included people who are caught at the border and has turned right background and that had failed.
Satisfying many of the other rights immigration hawks whose found it to be just and never to dupe the stats. We are not seeing that right now. What we are seeing is a real true, genuine operation to find and deport illegal immigrants, which is part and parcel of the press, then said he was going to do today. However, he describes it as a military operation, They actually had quite a bit of costs a nation at the White House when a memo was leaked last week to the US, she press, indicating the intention of the Department of Homeland Security to mobilise members of the forces in the national ardour to protect name particular too. To remove to find, and remove illegal immigrants and actually deport them to just over the mexican border, despite the fact that most of them come from a variety of places across Latin America it should be said that that doc,
what was interesting about that document, which, as I think you're gonna say was it was called the draft. It was real, even though it had homeland security, Secretary Joam Kelly's name on it wasn't to be taken seriously. What was new and then other people said well, there is nothing new about age is an expansion of existing policy, which was ridiculous, because existing policy involves federal government making deals with friendly police departments and say police and rangers, and things like that who wish to participate voluntarily in such This was an effort to find friendly, essentially friendly. Governors who would mobilise the National Guard in their states and to be used as border patrol and immigration force made? This raises a very serious questions about the use of the military as domestic police force
The national guard can be used by governors to emerge, sea conditions to help maintain public order. Declaration of states of emergent right Its number one number two. There is in fact a piece of legislation on the books called the posse comatose activation, seventy one which forbids the use of the military as a domestic police force and this may be why, if you were thinking that you know, Donald Trump had a purpose for his sir for his calling this effort, a military effort, which I doubt I think he was just bladder, but this may be why he would use the term, which is if, if you can make that clear, a more the case that the removal of illegal aliens the border is a military matter involving the.
Already, then the use of the military is acceptable. I think it would not stand up in court very hard to believe that would set up in court. The question really that that we have to address is that rhetorically, the Trump administration can claim Trump can claim. Immigration ox can claim We are in a state of emergency in relation to illegal immigration. That seems insane. Nothing has changed. In fact of atheists chain, We have no net gain. Immigration and then, of course, you have the conundrum, which is that this in this claim is very large, claim that crime in the United States is you know, is, is on the upswing, because of racial, when we ve had this twenty year upsurge in immigration, up to the levels of about twelve million illegals in the United States and a net drop in crime that forty to sixty percent
That is simply a secular generational fact. The right. Immigration has been has been paralleled by a drop in crime. I also have to say I don't see this. Having a very smooth path to implementation, for all sorts of reasons, but beyond even the reckless discussion of a dead end, of perception of it. His military operation would he's talking about, requires wrapping up of so much personnel and and so many institutions, the b What's that handle these things already backlogged at the current rates, but by about it takes. We could taken or from five or six years for fur, for these four deportation cases too, to be heard. Have facilities to
two how's, all those who are already being targeted. Of all or every new judge needs a team of translators and, and and and whoever else to push all this paper we're through this is going to cost billions it. It's going to require an unbelievable amount of. Hiring and wrapping up I think, we're a long way off from actually seems this decision put in place. It's completely insane. It has another if not that that this isn't a meritocracy as policy. I suppose I mean something that he campaigned on any won the election shore, but the impetus behind it. The the policy rationale for it is really dubious. As you say, you know, our people on the immigration right want to call it. An emergency is very akin to how the left treats environmentalism environmental crisis, climate change It's the sine qua of issues there is. It relates to
the legal security, economic security, national security. It is an issue that affects all other issues. Without environmental security, we have no broader, security on all these other issues the environmental right imposes are either? Are the immigration right imposes on this issue, this exist without a crisis atmosphere, as is their priors. Secondly, when the President calls says that he is ordered a military operation, when the president caused says that he is ordered a military operation on american soil. It triggers a lot of things. I mean it creates the conditions that you can bring this thing to court. Now you ve probably bring it the court forbidden. You have this this hanging question. As you said, the deposit comatose act, whether or not the violation of that from the executive branch and is in a week. You have trump defenders who
out there doing the president no favours by saying you have taken selectively, not literally or seriously or sort of listen to him when we ignore him at some points and whether or not that you know that that is dead, it's only in their heads disguise president, what he says matters and when he says he's order a military operation in american soil everything changes. So it's our friend current Selina Zito of Pittsburgh, who came up with the philosophy peer teal. Now it was quoting Selina Zito, who said that His followers take him seriously about litter within their rebellion. Take him literally without seriously, but now that he is president, we can take him literally answer, nobody can take em literally. In other words, a visa issues. Executive orders we taken literally, they have language, they have the force of law. They need to be taken seriously. If we put legislation goes of work Congress, if he signs things are, doesn't if he orders and directs
cabinet agencies and and officials to do things than we taken literally because they taken literally when he's campaigning everything he says as an expiration date. Big. It doesn't matter he could say what every wants to, and then he can change policies that is not the way that this is going in is not insane for president to enforce existing law and immigration. We should say That's not my point. I know that's your point, I think seem to think that its they sell for the ills of the American Working class right. The great problem for those of us who tend to be on the other side of the immigration question, is that there is a simple fact, the matter which is that people are in this country. Legally and they're. Not was to be, and so what do you do when that happens and so those who say well, you need to enforce the law and the law says you're my lad to be here illegally. Have the better of the argument. We can go on and say better there and positive.
To the economy there. This the other thing, but the fact is there breaking the law efforts to make sure of the laws and forced are always welcome until the laws overturned of the laws changed that sad and an end to any and these exports, as I understand them, or the new policy, as I understand it, does involve, doesn't trigger serve like round ups of any body whose just sitting there doing you know like sitting there knitting its? If you commit a crime, if you are known to have committed a crime, if there's a bench warned against youth or something like that, then you should be thrown out of the country like, and that has been is the open that that is, on a change in policy. It is The idea that you now need to do that as an ongoing operation with enhanced personnel. Numbers now. One thing I want to point out
All people who would be very supportive of this, in theory, is in a. We have been through a massive increase. In the number of federal person, who were in get who were hired engaged to do enforcement proceedings in the last fifteen years. That was the creation of the tea essay transportation safety Frustration as part of the Homeland Security ACT has that God, how happy or people with that. Forty two thousand you now this that that increase of forty two thousand federal officers we think when you announce it, you're going to hire fifteen thousand people to do very delicate, very, complicated work involving possum the splitting up of families. You know of vial, and this is oh joke. This is a lot of training and takes a lot of time to create a border patrol agent. Who is not gonna be some you now lunatic who wants to go crackhead
Then you know do something about those damn Mexicans will come into the country. You make a point that I dont think people only and I keep using the term it's not very primitive, but it's the only one. I have the immigration right, the term there, the right for whom the immigration issue is, is the biggest most important issues facing the country, and that is a deportation of criminal, illegal aliens, witches should be an enforcement priority, as opposed to frankly those illegal aliens who are illegally using american social Security numbers to pay taxes and find employment that happens and frank There are not have been enforcement priority and they really shouldn't be. If you think that this is the problem affecting the american Working Class, you are woefully bereft of statistics to support russian. Now I have been reading, I'm almost done reading list some address cereal book, SAM Kenya, illnesses Dreamland, which is about the opium epidemic and the two did
two strains of the obey them one being the abuse of prescription, drugs and states on the other. The importation of was called black tar heroin from the state of Palestine in Mexico and how this happened and how this new form of heroin, which has very potent can't be caught, can be sold very cheaply distributed by this very decentralized network and how this happened basically beginning in the Ladys early nineties him and there was a real contribute to this crisis, that we are seeing all all across the country in terms of you increasing jockeys, albeit attics, end and then and overdoses, and what's interesting about this? Is you can look at this and say? Well, this is proof that this you know, immigration from Mexico has been deleterious
as to the United States. Yet these kids, coming in from from highly this town and in Mexico, this area and and coming and learn how to drive a car learning how to distribute display our heroine. We need to do something about it. Only we are doing something about a part of the business involves the understanding that a great number of these kids when they are arrested, holding a small men of heroin, often in their mouths and little baggies, are just simply deported. That's part of the EU, there they arrested rested. They don't have enough drugs on hand for there to be a gigantic federal prosecution. You want to do that anyway. Don't spend like a year building a case against these guys. Are you just deport them like it's? Not it doesn't take. The price but the day we're talking about him, it's pretty opening
their arrested. They plead guilty and ate them, and they just go right across the border, just that there are more people to commend. This makes the case more. For the wall or in theory, for doing so. About stopping people from coming across the border in the first place than it does about throwing people out who are here already and who have made lives for themselves. As we know there are all sorts of stats about about these mexican illegals in particular from South, They have a lower unemployment rate, then native born Americans, which makes four, because they do not. Unlike the method they do not have easy access to social welfare programmes. They don't, they dont collect unemployment. They don't collective security, stability. They don't have any of those things. They are people who
I'm here and the only thing they can do to survive as work and it's much better for them to work here then, is to work there because they make more money, and but they are not here as leeches What you can say is that there are these occasional horrible incidents like the murder of cates. Timely in in San Francisco but the idea that the murder of kids timely, as some you knows, is itself a Kate styling could be Could a she couldn't have been killed by the body, but anybody can be killed by anybody. I mean that's, not u dont needs. Kick eleven million people had to make sure that one Cates timely as an is murdered, but you know, there. Their unforeseen consequences too, to two trumps policy here as well and among those consequences, could be that we do end up getting more or of the kind of immigrants that are more, that are more dangerous, because if if we are going to further
stabilize Mexico, particularly, as is he's real reeling things like aid or aid to Mexico, if we were gonna, have that kind of impact on Mexico, that can it be bad for us, we're gonna, we're gonna get and we're gonna get more of it, of a bad economic development, economic downturn and there's the worst case scenario, and just one more point in Mexico has other access to two. They have. They have recourse to fight back and in terms of share. Intelligence with us in terms of how strict they are about visas and They can make our problem worse. The absolutely. I guy we're trying to wrap up this crazy system either about recall where I read it, but a rented this week that there's directives to deport immigration population, who is from Latin America just to Mexico and say you now, take it from there and there's a kind of revenues. Logic for that is that these people came through Mexico. South Mexico's problem may should deal with it. Well,
I wasn't gonna deal with, that Mexico's gonna have the population full of people who don't belong there, who don't have any routes to the country who have no method of working and will thus falling to the criminal under and guess what we ve seen this: the the cartels, violence from the cartels spilling over into tourist sons. It's now in places like Porter by ETA where you have Americans, who will soon become targets of criminal gangs, violence and guess what that's gonna be because problem to solve, and it will be of sooner rather than later, and eventually on the table will be deployments and then what ok? But you know too, to pull this away from a strictly apocalyptic until
it in larger context, we have five different or six different things going on. Here we have the refugee halt right. The executive order halting the refugees from the seven muslim countries right that that dovetails with this, which is about dealing with the legal immigration, mostly from an through Mexico, and various other things. This is where no as point about the immigration right makes sense, because. These things are not connected. They are not related that we have a refugee problem from the Middle EAST and that we have an illegal alien problem for Mexico. These are while the different things there. What are the only thing that makes them common is that we are is that we are letting people in who were not from the United States, and that is
Larger sociological point about Trump ISM and the Trump vision is that it brings together. People who think the immigration bags causes crime, which is almost certainly not true. Immigration is bad because dilutes Americanism, which the highly problematic idea, but has some merit to it in the sense that we know hunger, teach civics, we no longer exists. The people come into this country learn English. We no longer insist on trade trying to foment a common culture because we don't believe as a cunt. The income and cultures any more and the economic point, which that the large scale of you know low wage immigrants, the the another multi millions of people have come into work. Low wages have depressed wages of Americans, and so, if you, if you can look at this in full I've different ways and say: there's an economic argument: there's a
terrorism argument there is a crime. Argument- and there is a cultural argument They all dovetail, which is why there, which is why it has. Finally, after twenty twenty five years, become a popular issue because they ve all kind of come together as one, but they are not one and you can't deal with them as one The problem of America not having a common culture, is a huge one and its not susceptible to change by preventing Mexicans from coming into knighted states. It's a question of our own soul and our own sense of Amerika and weather you're going to preach poor, but sooner or whether we are going to preach the gorgeous mosaic and how we're just all a bunch of different groups and more want different. Then it's also reflected of a kind of culture that I dont think has a lot of contact with immigrants, and we were talking about the contact that they have with the mexican population in Latin America.
Population, which is beginning to bleed out from the cities into the rural areas, where people rip really frankly have had a homage, homogenous, culturally racially communities for a very long time. What they don't. Experience with, is the present wave of immigration, which has overtaken mexican immigration, since I think two thousand seven and that's from Asia South Asia, India, Pakistan, China and those are places that These are congregated in enough for lack of a better term ghettos. In the end, cities and in places like Jersey, city and then said, Proximity Brook yeah, and these are places where they are very homogenous themselves very tight, knit and haven't bled out into the larger american fabric. But they're coming and the act that we haven't talked about them yet is indicative of a culture It doesn't really understand immigrant communities in the United States, but you know, but but That is precisely what that is.
It is there that would do That's what they consider sanctimonious. That's what energizes them. You know everything it with: them meaning that the damage immigration hawk rest. While data vote, Although the whole point, I think that I think the pointed the I was making, which is important. Is that term America, I do not feel threatened by immigration from Asia, they feel threatened by immigration from Europe of from from Mexico and they feel threatened by immigration from the Middle EAST. Despite numerical superiority, I'm just saying that's what they that's what they they feel as though they do not look. A chinese person on the site. It betrays person on the bus as a potential threat to them, and they view
a mexican personal. A bus is a potential threat to the matches the why. That is why that should be that's alone, and we know why that says: studied the waves of immigration in this country that precisely why that is because they're not compare. They have just there. There is. We have contact with them with their there, the german in irish immigrants, the late nineteenth century, is finally managing to get out of the five points and their fight we come in contact with the Protestants who have never had a contact with them in such there are big problem, but there are, it no longer than the primary wave of immigration in twenty years. That would again be talking about the will be, will be standing side by side with hondurans wondering why the chinese Heaven this immolated yet, no, because I think The whole issue is that is that the the Asian Americans don't have interest groups in Washington demanding that we teach Mandarin in their schools. They come and they want to learn English, they come and they want to make wives. They come and they start businesses. They
when they employ each other. Having said that, by the way, one of the interesting aspects of the gratian order, as somebody pointed out ironically, about New York City, is the dumb Should the immigration or be enforced in New York away. The way trump would like it. The entire nail salon industry goes away in five seconds that by the way they are all Asians and Filipinos and Koreans they are all here illegally they're, all operating without proper cost, illogical licences, which means that they are subject to deportation. They earning money illegally and they are. They are functioning in a criminal fashion because they are there not licensed that's tens of thousands of people providing a providing actually it's circuits. The lotta people seem to find the heart in a wildly necessary the manicure and pedicure business, but
It is interesting because you're not sittin here thinking my God, thank God, summers finally get to deal with those people giving Mammy patties. You know at the pinkies salon on your corner, but I think different american groups girl capable of finding different groups of immigrants is risk escape gotta. Meanwhile, portion of wet Americans, can look at the Mexicans and say they're they're here illegally, taking jobs away from white Working class Americans. Tremendous tension in in the cities among black Americans and Asians. Who who look at Asian on businesses in black neighbourhoods and say they they have come here in the end there and their taking away busy opportunities from our community right predates the wave of short, integration, but I think I think again. What we are talking about here is a question of
There is an assertion. There's been an assertion on the part of Le Tino refugees. That is not the dead. There's no comparable assertion made. Produce from other places, except now we are seeing this assertion made about refugees. From war zones and from in places of high instability in the Middle EAST that that you know they should be viewed like the Jews fleeing Nazi Germany, which is, I think, profoundly offensive- is a horrible analogy: live in countries in which they are indeed at fear for their lives, but they are not there not being extirpated because they are in a lion pride. They are deemed an alien presence by their own governments. There wrestler ask that they live in a country in a big mistake. Countries in a state of civil war and and we're trying. We were our integrity men trying to help as a
I sure valve or release valve so that Europe wasn't overrun by them, but that those those are the threats and they're, so their special pleading on behalf of Latinos, and there are special pleading on behalf of muslim refugees, but There is no special pleading on behalf of asian refugees. Indians are in Washington, making demands to help indian refuge in Vienna. Immigrants of crimes are not making demands. Herself a chinese arriving demands were chosen. That's not the way it works. They actually that those people come here to not make waves to not try to get special rights to do. I don't stand on most of the latin american wave of immigration. Until recently, when I felt particularly threatened was, was pretty only interested in special none of them. They wanted special rights. You know there is that there is. There is a network of radical left interest groups
that has been doing special pleading on behalf of Latinos for forty years, bilingual educate male deaf la bilingual education. Affirmative action policy, the action for four for those Molly of mexican origin but of for immigrants and illegal immigrants, the effort being made to to sure that we do not see any distinction in the United States between a person of mexican origin born in the United States, and somebody who came over illegally three years ago, which is a huge That's why you don't like the terms illegally The interim document they want to say you're being all Mexicans are living in fear, will that's ridiculous. Overwhelming majority people you know were named Hernandez United States are not illegal aliens. You know, that's why we,
alpha, there's something setting. I said on a previous podcast. We also thought that trumps husked, you know, expressed hostility toward the the judge in his trunk Uk Sam toward Mexicans in general, and the Cates timely matter at all? This was going to die and his support among hispanic the levels you know half of Romney's or something like that. In fact, I got the same voters Romany, so why? Why why Were we because we also he swallowed the Kool aid that, if you are somebody named Hernandez. You were going to feel a special commonality with an illegal who came in from you know. One of the state MAX lie. Not that's fair. I mean in our own eye events the notion that what Donald Trump had said at the time was that this judge of mexican heritage couldn't
impartially judge him, because I told you that I am that's a prejudicial view and we were believed it to be a prejudice, never know what I'm saying our mistake and the mistake that people is excessive thing. The idea that there is Trans latino consciousness, though their words if you are, if you been in America hundred years or seventy five years with a latino last name, that you were going to feel particularly sorry for a Mexican who comes across the border, because your grandma it was for Mexico. Maybe you will maybe you won't, but the notion that that was a given was something than ever but somehow came to accept that it was mistaken and it and by the way it is in fact deeply offensive. Like Mexicans, come with guatemalans have nothing come with salvadorans method. As we now know, you know, cuban voters are different from you know: porter
we can vote her prayer weakens and floor and Cubans Florida Bregenz tend to be democratic, given sent me Republican. You know Hispanics in in California, are overwhelmingly democratic, but there are willing labelling democratic, not because they hate tat by an immigration. You know, that's, that's it. That's a mistaken impression. That's that's all I'm saying these things are complicated and and if we, if we allow ourselves to be hoodwinked into the idea that you know native born Americans, of whatever hue and whatever, religion and whenever background are born in o r are going to feel a special connection, necessarily the people, because they both folks spanish, then we're just swallowing a caricature that helps empower groups, then in fact conservative.
Are inimical to our own conservative beliefs, another interesting thing happened. Last night there was a debate on CNN for ninety minutes. Among the eight candidates for the chairmanship but the Democratic National Committee thee formal governing body of the Democratic National Democratic Party, no one. I both watch this debate. Your welcome, because we watched so you didn't have to, and my god, you really didn't have to was unique. We dispute event I think one of the things interesting about this is that Clearly, CNN everybody is this is this: is there was a scene in debate a couple weeks so between woods, Bernie, Sanders and crews, so they think they can keep this perpetual. I'm paying thing going and have some debate once a month. You know like faking debate that there is no debate
between the Democratic National Committee candidates. There are four hundred and forty seven voters we're gonna pick in the environment. Democratic regulars, who get to pick the democratic national chairmen will be I think this is also an, This idea of it is what happens when you only consider politics to be something that happens once every four years. We have two, you know now. Stay engaged in search of you know, have an active our technologies that are actually really last night. Either that or its created by trunk is like oh debate. Let all we shall we get twenty five million people to watch the first republican debate, so you know, maybe three million people to watch this democratic debate that we know for us. For I see that again, I want to repeat, will be decided by four hundred and forty seven people. You Get a vote. Democrats about. Only people on the Democratic National where they get about forty and forty seven, it's more than Republicans the Republican National Committee vote in the absence of a president is a hundred
Sixty eight people, so Democrats are way more I've, say you know the voting blockers way larger That's the way war, but two and a half times. Smaller than many high school Student council love Motor. Let's get rough that that whose it was debated, I tell about his right hand and, of course, whatever said in these debates, is literally nothing to do with how the person is getting a chosen because we're talking met they needs they need to get two hundred and forty four of these voters. Tonnage before these voters, so you know it's like they'll say what do you want? You want lawn signs here. You want three phone lines: three extra phone lines in your office, I'll get them for you know, that's how you win raises like that you're not like. I will come back Donald Trump with every fibre of my being- and I will be there I will buy- will be on the woman's Marge and I will be on the men's, marginal beyond the doctors marshal the and the scientists march. That's not how you go get things from people. Who want money?
you know and resources from the Central Party Noah. What did you think of the debate while at the same time it is valuable, at least as a window into the psyche? of the Democratic Party which has steadfastly refused to conduct any sort of post mortem similar to what the Republican Party did in twenty twelve. And even to an extended two thousand nine when they had a race to replace the Aral Sea Chair, which was really vicious and very racial and sort of divisive till it to an extent that I don't think been surpassed yet by the Republicans? Are the Democrats but a Democrat but he's in the midst of a crisis when I don't think it can fully reconcile with not only in the fact that they lost between sixteen election and the two subjects mid term elections, resulting in it of a party that is just decimated to proceeding maternal preceding the term elections, but also
but the fact that they are replacing Dnc chair that had to resign and disgrace following controversy, the party that has a real trust deficit with its voters, and that was evident on that stage. But there is a contradiction that I don't think Democrats are really fully being able to reconcile. I'm writing on this now. One is the fact that they, no, the parties in trouble. They know the parties in the workplace, it's been in a hundred years and they know they have to change. The other part is that There are clear one: three million more votes, and that mean they ve got, there's a really big basis of appeal and also Donald Trump. What is an illegitimate president because Russia, so they don't really have to change the country, has to change these two. It is now a train to characterise is their internal. Our Gaza, not his own, now I did I did. This is kind of this cognitive dissonance, relevant Democrats who are trying to reconcile with that was yet was available. Was evident on that stage last night and also the
but they're doing their best, not to really talk about the elephant in the room, which is the fact that President Barack Obama presided over the utter decimation of the Democratic Party from a place that was a send an prohibitive in its electoral power in two thousand and nine? And that's all these contradictions that they're trying to avoid reconciling that set up the Age, for what is probably going to be a very tea party like internet settings struggle. We ran the parties, so the struggles, the struggle as as we saw so there are two leading candidates. One is representative Keith also the Minnesota. The other is the former Labour Secretary Tom Parents, so Alice if you dont know, is a is a former member of the nation Islam and a black Muslim who, screens and yells of hollers that its liming him to point out that he has set horribly anti Israel things in the past and that he was a follower of Louis Farrakhan,
and if the party at the Democrat, Bright United States wants to put such a person as the leader of its party, which a little like putting you know, David Duke as leader of the Republican Party, go right ahead regulations, and it may well happen fine. So now he says he loves is really a special relations buddy supporter of the two, the Tuesday solution is oh, that's like out just cause. I thing you could possibly say whatever he's a you get upset prevaricator. He lies about his past, I dont believe em and peoples and bloom. I want to, and then there's, but he is a representative of the Sanders Wing and, of course, the centres wings charge against the Dnc is the Debbie Washerwoman children. Former chairman, ran the Dnc as a we as an Elect Hillary Clinton campaign to put her finger on the scale to try to make sure that Hilary got the nomination and had some a fact. I don't they
really a decisive effect, but had some effect on slowing the Santer surge down as it was happening. Remember he one twenty two states and there was a point at which he could possibly have left her and really taken her down. If, if in a parallel to twenty two thousand and eight, had he not him I've been such a problematic candidate, but so Ellison is that is the voice of thou and then there are some people in the mainstream lecture were the new set of minority leader who have supported him for utterly hypocritical, you know, slimy reasons and then there's Paris, but Perez is the Obama candidate, Paris, is Obama's candidate. He is the mainstream cabin scares me and he's. The
I did great. We were great wonderful administration. Everything was fantastic. Everything was was, was great and doesn't deal with the fact that Democrats law, the net thirteen Senate seed sixty three, how seeds, nine governor ships of a thousand seats at the state and local level to be at its worst position and socially in a century under Barack Obama's watch, and no one on that stage. Eight people know another. Stage. People alluded to it had hinted at it. But no one said: oh, my god, we are in terrible shape. We need to rebuild. This is a rebuilding we gotta get down into the you know how to get down to the meat of it, we ve got to like you to rebuild from the ground up and make this party at twenty four Centuries party, or we are going to be destined to irrelevant. One final point on that, which is that is something that they refuse to reconcile, but another thing that that seems incongruous is there were insistence that
Some were more vocal about it than others that Donald Trump represents. Fascism once said that outright Jammu, Green That Trump is illegitimate. Donald Trump is impeaching. Quite a few, were members of that panel said that Not only was the impossible but its appropriate to pursue this course of impeachment right now this is, obviously something the gin up, the grass roots and it's very effective, but it also else too, to reconcile the fact that the president has been really weak. Since he came to office. He has only stumbled with his Second of order was debacle and remained state and they finally retreated on that issue. He had the lost, a cabinet top opposition within his own party, he's had to have for the resignation of his national security adviser this precedent doesn't seem to have quite a lot of authority and the legislative branch has been lethargic in.
A pursuit, even their agenda. Ok, but it's only thirty two days, mysteries and only thirty, two days old. We have no idea how this is going to check out. The arrests ruled out only read some really substantial legislation. That was our asked and we were in Greece today, but we were in a gigantic national crisis. When Barack Obama hey Jack. No, have you heard about the immigration issue? We know, but I'm here, I'm sorry we weren't. We were in that. We were in an unquestionable gigantic financial crisis that gave the president far more. The way, but have an added a declaration that point this is their Democrats cannot reconcile the fact that they are making the monster out of this thing, which appears to have no clothes. But I think there is also another job: I will not not having that has no clothes without at that very evident mix them out of an Ex mixed, very jail acts. They sounds able, ok, Had not had not having seen the debate, but I haven't read about it. What what
seems to me that what what does if we could invent a fictional, perfect candidate? What what does that and they do beyond saying what John said, but we have to rebuild huh What do they records? I hadn't you pull together the grass from the grass roots and end what added that the red, the their Bernie wing, envy and Hilary way Ivan answer. Yet my answer, that is, you say I am here to fix what is broken in the Democratic Party that it's fantastic. We have grass roots all over the place. Things are the in March, we have more energy and more enthusiasm and more sense of purpose. Then we have had in many years, and that is a fuel that can take us everywhere we need to go. We gotta get up without a lay the pipe we ve got to prime the pump we ve got to get. We think we ve got a square everything away so that we have candidates recruited. We have.
You know we have phone lines in place. We have systems in place. We have a fund raising mechanism in place so that twenty ten. We can take it to them, you wanna, take it to them. You're too. To them. My job is to make it possible for the machinery to function as perfectly as it can to effect. This change now is that I'm going if Donald Trump doubt is it. I really want to be on MSNBC six hours a day, because the answer is the person should say and Michael still, by the way did this when he he so I dont want to be on tv. I want to be working with you every second of every day to make sure that the Republican and Party is unfit. Condition is in top flight condition to win
races, because that, ultimately, all that matters winning races, local and you know there is a fantastic story today in the New York Times by Alex Burns, Joe Biden is out trying to help a local state senator in Delaware, win especial election because Del one of the few states in which democratic control, the governorship and the two houses of the legislature, amethyst republican wins. It can be very bad for the Democrats, binding the vice where there's aids is out there on the hustings like taking this? We are trying to push her over the finish line by her side. Because she is facing a very Republican opponent almost took her down three years or two years ago. That is a very interesting model. Now would say what MRS read's, his home state, binds a kind of a flake and everything like tat, but if we get that right for United States who has to let go and try to help get, is
eight hundred acted in Delaware, which has about eleven people. In it I mean how many Those who may have we feel are going to vote in their race. Twelve or do you hundred and seventy five? You know it's ridiculous, but it gives you a sense of the urgency that the actual democratic Party at the grass roots feels, the danger that it is in now can be turned around. Course it can be turned around local NGO sixty five million votes. I mean you know: nationally. She only four hundred maybe counties, but she got all these votes, so he had to go around. And make sure that another ten thousand people in each county go down credit set a Republican, you go these rural counties in you. Try to like get ten thousand people to join your party. It's not Superbowl challenge their small in other there. There small population carries you could do it. You have to do to try to do that. It's a technical challenge, not
not a massive radiological channel. Everyone was demonstrating. Now is already a voter for them and that's the thing is that that the party doesn't have to change in order to benefit from a pendulum swings in american politics. The likely That will change, however, is overwhelming, especially if you watch that thing last night, because Republicans didn't engage, and after two thousand eight. With with this, I towards reforming the party in it and really addressing the failures of the Bush administration and it's big spending liberal ways and the conservative grass roots that was really frustrated with it. They didn't do any of that. That happened organically, They wanted to avoid it, but they still one twenty timid terminal at its most because pendulums, that's my point. Its wasn't just because of a pendulum swings was a real. It wasn't just a reaction. There was something the old and new and interesting going on there and the simple fact. The matter is that Republicans one twenty ten and twenty fourteen and had this big wave,
you still had this? You know hello for this outside or come in and said republican Party sucks, and I'm going taken it already took it over anyone, the presidency, so you could be a sand reside. You could be, anything you want to be is not none of this pre judges, whether or not your wing is gonna end up. Taking over the already in winning the presidency. That's that's the mistake. This is in the eating illogical thing, it's a technical challenge and who knows speaking of ideological fights and parties right now, as we speak, the conservative political action conference is taking place in Washington. Dc present will come speak on Saturday, the big kerfuffle over over the money. Stress Milo, monopolise, the paderewski praising slime bucket Oh he's now gone and am, and maybe we'll never darkened our doors again. Oh, I death, then we'll see maybe
although in dark darkened somebody else's door. I don't know. Sometimes these people do burn in Hell. They're there are certain, tells a provocateurs burn out, go away. You now remember Orton Downy Junior, get leverage Andrew Dice, clay, yes or everyday clay. You know who twenty years later, having a small partner, Woody Allen Movie, that's what happened. Amortize lay anywhere just say so: The question to me is that the see pack is run by gonna match. Lap was briefly the political director of a second Bush Whitehouse he's a silly person, I mean he's a silly pursue inarticulate personally, as no as far as I can tell it doesn't have much in the way of Syria. His convictions. What he is thrilled to be writing the bachelor bucking bronco. This you know, like this turned into a thoroughbred, so he invited Milo. He made a big think about how was all that free speech, and then he does invited them. So that was really the tower Jello standing there
the question I have about. You know ballot match laboured, see. Pakistan, where that is, larger question about american conservatism, which is from you know, and insurgent comes and takes over the Republican Party and wins. The question is: does he we define conservatism, by which I mean you can't we define conservatism. Goods conservatism is a philosophy; it doesn't change but poetic conservatism as it is commonly understood the party that stood for smaller government lower taxes, strong military and traditional values, less regulation that tat generally speaking, free trade does such a party When the present comes in with sixty percent sharing, sixty percent of that am opposing forty percent of it. Does its redefine the movement, this,
there has been assembled painstakingly and organically over the space of seventy five years. Does he get to turn around and say? Ok, well, that were not free traders anymore. And were kind of isolationist and dont really huge traditional values, although he did side with traditional values, side on the transgender bathroom mission which at which I think, brings in a dimension to the question that that we don't know know how it can play area which is at what, if Trump eggs non conserve river, anti conservative pronouncements frequently, or tries to enact non cajolery policies that end up acquiring time in it? and again a conservative fix, to actually worked. It jumped to be implemented without would do who to whose to which Sides benefit. Does that redound as it does it do? Do they do the conserved? get the credit, or does it wilder
is the wilder wing who proposed the first. The first generation get the credit, I would say the simple answer is that the Trump Whitehouse will say that it deserves all the credit for anything that ever happens so questions, whether its true in general, and the question is whether, as you know, the creation of this new magazine american affairs ably went to the opening party. This journal of american greatness this new effort, emphasised the intellectual world, Trump ISM, which is preposterous. Its face, but nonetheless, will we define, will it say: ok, american conservatism is no longer those, though the pillars the lights at a particularly today, our values, it is something else or is. Is american tourism hardier, now we saw in the nineteen sixties, that american liberalism turned
something else- and so many classical many american liberals, including the people who came to be called me of conservatives, were left with out and ideological tendency to sit in the didn't change. Liberalism- Liberalism turned into radicalism, liberal belief in the United States, belief and liberal internationalism- belief in a lot of them things that we now even associate with sort of George W Bush ISM, those Robin Jack did by the liberal institution and organizations of the nineteen. Sixteen and nineteen seventies and forced a lot of people to read I'm themselves as conservative. I dont know where we, if that with Trump ISM. I don't know where we go out over the weekend. We call ourselves liberals, but will that happen or is? tromp ISM just simply to incoherent. I think we should probably to pull back a little bit and define some of that. The terms here that that
bring this about this morning. At the the opening of this conference, the conservative political action conference, a representative with the American Conservative Union, which operates this conference came out and announced the alt right in very forceful terms, called them left, fascism, accuse them of being interlopers that are seeking to overturn the cancer movement and either way lay very measures that aren't very much an argument that Harkin's back to and in influenced by a peace and commentary by Jamie Karadzic on the all right published in June. When he sixteen, which laid out the non the conservative and indeed left fascist inspirations of the old right, very much reflected there and if you listen to them members who put people who believe they have an affinity with the all right, if not a ready, then if I with them, they dont identifies conservatives. In fact, they believe the conservatism has failed. The right it has failed to keep programme
Civism at Bay. We have several pieces commentary. If you want to google him that explain why that's not an accurate perception of how conservatism has of as manage to shape the the national political and skip over the decades. But this is a popular notion, particularly among those who see themselves to be Donald trumps, a boosters in, conservative media that they don't identify as conservative. In fact, they believe conservatism has, conserved anything in the Obama Arabs, somehow As a result, it needs to be replaced with something much more kinda populist nationalism. So there is this sort of vibrant conversation going on on the right over whether conservatism as a value as the guiding eat of the Republican Party is of any merit and has actually been not that long in american history, the conservatism has been the centrally those of the Republican Party and look at my former Progressive Party recently,
and you know this. This is also. This also applies to the new Journal american affairs, which they did. This issue explains its judge, justified. Its existence in part by saying that the Understanding of a liberal conservative paradigm does not answer, the most urgent questions of the day anymore. I think and I hate to say this. I mean I think, that prompt supporters, are all too comfortable moving away from conservative and it is my own their own. I dont know that their dying to claim claimed its mantle. No, I mean the quest whether conserve the conservative movement here again, Her conservatism is a now relatively well developed set of ideas as I,
traditional values, limited governments, strong military american patriotism, defence of the West were the conservative movement that sort of cohered around these ideas goes running after Trump to say You know, don't leave me I'll, be whatever you want me to be. That's really the question I mean I'm not gonna change. I dont think Can we not marketed J, obviously politically they may be onto something I mean there are two things about Trump on trade. I wonder, which is he's got to say, The other traders had this dilatory. Free trade and trade deals have had this deleterious effect. The United States and clearly here do something to test that proposition. Now we believe. As a matter of not philosophy. B, but almost empiricism that what he wants. Will fail that it is not workable. It's like
trying to say that gravity gravity is bad for us so will do something else, but you know It's a theory. We could be wrong lives, structure, the twenty first century economy could militant against certain aspects of free trade in ways that we don't really understand and create conditions and all of that, in which case one will have to deal with theirs. The philosophical, question whether free trade is good because its moral or whether it it just is The truth is that it is a more efficient thing in there, for you make your piece with it so that we'll be tested. You know whether not traditional values are better than no values is not detestable. Proposition is simply a matter of deep held belief about you know eternal verities end and you know there's no way to prove that their right or wrong. It's a question of what society will coincide. They want to live in. And similarly with you know, some smaller government like.
There too, the smaller government, we believe Saps individual initiative as a threat. Individual liberty- but you know maybe maybe try can forget away that his larger government will be more efficient than Obama's larger government. I find that impossible the blue, but again detestable a testable proposition. I mean, I think, actually and in the sort of street fight, that's under way. Trump ISM has the edge over conservatism because it is currently powerful and it demands less of you than conservatism, which has been, I think, with the due to do the tougher selling point. Now it's wrong and that does does conservatism rightness give it some sort of indifference that that will that will be. There went when Trump ISM falls apart. I hope so. I dont know I'm going take the other side of that. I dont think Donald Trump currently and Trump ism whatever that means currently has the
I got it may and at a future date when and if these individuals were get it to the project of grafting, meet onto the bones of trumpets and actually succeed in that, and then in that projects were right now they're facing an uphill battle, because we ve got a Republican. Already. That is defined as a conservative party, which has been signed. Then conservative, the conservative ideology for quite a long time. It's the young conservative party. Its among the most conservative parties that the Congress has ever seen in the American Congress has ever seen and its it's lodge Please it's it's not ideologically malleable, it knows what it believes and Donald Trump has received some of the more striking amounts of distance from members of his own party than any president and a new president has seen quite some time and we're talking about We have already seen the effects of the president's ideological struggles
with members of his own party, taking on more the immense more dominance and within the national dialogue than his struggles with Democrats, for example, and we have a A variety of voices in the Congress you're pretty articulate opponents of traditional conservatism, guys like Ben Sassin, Marker Rubio and many more. Who cannot check We had a vision and have articulated a vision that contrasts strongly with what Donald Trump wants to do. So, if done I was going to succeed and he might he will Deaf We have to show some progress where these other members of the Congress, I think all they have to do is- is back in opposite
They don't have to having any achievements ended about me, I'm than I judged on those standards mature. I agree with that because I think, in the end you know he is leader was part of the technical matters leader of his party. They will propose budgets, they were prose tax cuts. They will propose policies to replace him repeal Obamacare. These things will be enacted unaffected and he will benefit from them or he will fall all from them, and they unfortunately, are will fall or rise in tandem with him. There is no. We know there is no. Amnesty for being the Republican. Who has the vote along with your party. If your party makes decisions that fail, that's part of the job, George W Bush story of George W Bush, made all these conservative republicans in two thousand three vote for Medicare Part II, and they did want to, and you know that part of it
those luthers people get punished and two thousand nine two thousand ten foregoing, along with push actually they thought that Medical party was was was too much of a stretch. That's what happens when you lead apply similar with with Obama's Obama, is the most liberal president who ever lived and and yet his party now has to do with the fall out of the national rejection of here liberal. Allow laboriously, how is a liberal, is not right that it and that's what we're facing. How are they dealing with that? Either we stay the Obama course, so we go even farther left. That's how there s house, That's a dialogue inside the democratic aren't Raymond we're not rock right. Outfitting ideology is not political, been re again. Trump trump existed a different universe. Right Trump says every body for the last forty years is done everything wrong everybody Democrats liberals Republicans everything this everything wrong, but he is the head of a party and it's gonna send him relish.
ITALY, conventional legislation. On matters that he doesn't care that much about right like here the border wall there either a tax reform bill. Like you, I figure out how to pay for the tax or for the border, while the tax reform bill, but the tax reform bill is Gonna be his bill, it's gonna be Paul, Ryan's bill in which were calls bill in the Senate, houses bill and it'll pass and either it's gonna have an enormous you know web productive effect or towards commit not do very well that's. What we haven't talked about is whether or not conservatism can usurped Donald Trump. And we see Donald Trump enough make doing here. As to create a trumpet party, but you also have a variety of conservatives who are trying to influence him and wheeled him to their ends, and it's not altogether clear that they might not succeed in that effort. That's why he was invited to see back in the first place. Be ask me now and not just because it was the president. No courses pursues the president, they want they want,
him to pay them obeisance and for them to pay him obeisance the reason that Steve Balin sought to seize all of the power and the White House see better than Miller tried to see as all the power of the White House, so quickly was their terror that that Trump would fall, pray to the Washington conservative blob and lose his lose. What was particularist about him, so they needs control foreign facilitated the the executive ordered five seconds. They needed to announce that they were this policy or that policy the other policy to try to get this on the record before it was all screwed up. You know, so I dont know how to put this, but you know Trump there in social forces inside Trump ISM including the American Affairs Journal of National greatness people who are going to say, don't don't get sucked in, but the sun. Like. The matter is that you know Mitch. Mcconnell and Paul Ryan are not pop it was nationalists who don't like capitalism and want to create a new welfare states.
To support Guenaud poor, why so that a high school education and and Master may be doing some of the them that, Lloyd, ban and work in terms of intelligence Roma in Europe, in which case barons domination of the government will have been the shortest live domination of a would be government dominate or ever you know it's like he added for a couple of weeks and that its through his finger, I decided I mean that's already surrey. Today's that's why it strikes me. That was, I mean, as you say, people don't leave the White House and that theory may be tested pretty soon, but did strike. Me that this wing is going to be very frustrated with Donald Trump and pretty near future, because they just don't have enough authority and influence over this private they're gonna be frustrated and they don't have any warming an opposition block. They don't have anything else like who all they need is opposition. They don't have to have anything missing. My point, my point is that Trump is Trump ISM. It's not theirs.
No pre existing. Set of ideas. The trump like walked his way into all of the stuff cohered around him over the course of the eighteen months. Here they know that you will have an infrastructure bill from the right now that is a weird and that that is a weird amalgam of two things, one of which, as we gotta, do something to help people as countries falling apart. Our airports suck you now and then Bannon who used to work on Wall Street saying you know we have historically low interest rates. This is actually pretty good time to borrow a trillion dollars, because we can. We help rebuild the country at low, you know we did this, fifteen years ago we would be borrowing money at eight to ten percent would cost us a fortune, and now it's not gonna cost us very much and this country socks and we can make it better and all that so this stuff, it's like that, infrastructure bill precedes Trump treats its all improbable tory and so got nowhere to go all they have as him
all they had proceeding him was. You know this country is going down the tube so he's staying there saying this country's going down the tubes, it's not like NGO banners. Another guy over there he's really better. At this. These goings countries going down the tubes thing, I'm gonna support him more than I'm gonna does not support where's the other. They have in their lunch where's there'll opposing where's, their Elizabeth, worn world. You know, and you don't don't, don't don't summoned that up having anything could happened with Ukraine, but then there my outward coming here is not a comfortable rallying round personalities, this system, Something is very new and unique to this particular wing of the party. They are much more comfortable opposing in presenting a united front and what they believe to be an idea is based opposition, as opposed to be, as I think, actually worldwide. I think we're actually talking across purposes here cause I'm talking about the actual Trump Fan base in Europe talking about
the turbine. In wishing to the extent that can be defined, The ban on wing didn't exist, there wasn't abandoned wing, it was just bright bar. Do you know the ban and wing was you know there was like one Dave, brat one guy from Virginia got elected as a result of bright barbarism until Trump, so you know You can look at TED crews and say TED crews was Trump before Trump you now, but he wasn't really notes Lynn in the end, because he all he did was opposed and he shut the government. The only doll that These are much more conventional republic is in the end, he's around we Orthodox Republic get ready once tax gods. What's this, I believe you know he deep wants this to get out blah blah blah. You know it's not like he's some radical trains, revise conservatism, whereas Trump the trumpet we have decided that conservatism is bad and wise the baron says that you know conserving he wants to make conservatives heads explode,
because he was running this crap website with him. The horse. Shit nonsense. Excuse me a hand and you know his idea- was I I'm good at your bad and you you, you are all globalists, don't who the real America and that's not a philosopher- Three, that's just a set of prejudices that that investments are merged, together and that's what Tromp is amiss, a set of prejudices that have been merge together that they are now trying to put you down the bounds of amid it'll, only work, if prompt ism works as a governing philosophy, and it could happen. I dont think it will, but a good- and I apologise again for cursing- maybe no a complete, but I'm an office. And since we got to the point, we should probably sake by through this week jump on words, commentary magazine that calm go red
Nick States are miserable twenty first century three hundred and seventy five thousand people have read it this week. It is the most popular article we have ever published And helps understand I've been an entirely new way, are miserable 21st century read. It then subscribe one thousand, nine hundred and ninety five for a digital subscription, two thousand nine hundred and ninety five for an all access commentary complete, including our beautiful monthly magazine, delivered in your mailbox. So for no Rossman and a reward. I'm John ports sneeze you jump onwards day, but I did get my car. JFK garage case and wondering was five jumped and I got a new battery all is well and keep the camel burning.
Transcript generated on 2020-02-26.