Welcome to the commentary magazine. Podcast today is Monday March nineteenth, two thousand and eighteen, I'm John Podhoretz, the other of commentary magazine. We thank you very much for listening. You guys have proved to be a really a wonderful and solid audio please subscribe. If you're just listening online, please subscribe on on Itunes or Stitcher or wherever you subscribe to these things, leave a review would be very nice. I'm just trying to do diligence and do follow best practices, because every podcast I listen to does this at the beginning. So now I'm doing

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about the bizarre events surrounding the firing of deputy FBI director Andrew Mccabe just twenty hours before he was due to retire and receive his pension, the firing them denying him his pension, for, twenty one years of service Noah. Professor self, baffled by the fact that this has become a controversy. Why don't you lay out your bafflement and I get that it looks really petty, but it's it's kind of a cosmetic assessment, because I mean we don't know yet why the office The inspector general would suggest that Mr Mccabe had violated some protocols to where he was do some sort of punishment, and maybe they would have recommended summer dismissed. We don't really know. What we do know is that he's they've been kind of indefensible way,

particularly in two thousand and sixteen. We know that Mister Mccabe's wife ran for political office in Virginia was linked to Terri Mccoy, who is the governor at the time who is linked to Hillary Clinton got a bunch of large sum of money to make that run, and so Mister Mccabe, recused himself from Investigation into political figures in Virginia 'cause. He knew he had a conflict of interest, but he did not recuse himself over any investigation into Hillary Clinton which he ended up overseeing. And that alone is is sort of a questionable judgment. We don't know necessarily what transpired there, but we do know that, according to reporting and the information that was gleaned from Anthony Weiner's laptop. He had some emails that were forwarded from homer. Anthony that were supposed to be printed out. The FBI was instigating Anthony Weiner for having improper contacts with a minor these emails and

sat on these emails. For three weeks, a long time until finally came to the attention of James Comey so quickly that out and wrote this letter to Congress which turned the course of history right so so just to drill down on this from what we know in somewhere around the first week of October of twenty sixteen Mccabe became aware that there were Hillary emails on the Anthony, Weiner, Huma, Abedin computer. That said computer being looked at because of child possible child porn. Child. Whatever charges against, we is not related to the Oig report right. Oh, this is two thousand and sixteen, and so he found the first week of October James Comey, overseeing that Clinton Investigation, who would you know at in July that he would not prosecute her for reckless his her reckless handling of classified material had promised Congress,

have any new information came to light. He would apprise them of it. Three weeks after Mccabe found out that there was such said material on wieners computer. He let Comi know about. It took him three weeks like homie know about and Comey said, oh, my god, I am you're going to get me into huge truck because I said that we would tell Congress if this happened and now you've made a giant bollocks of this side. I am this: is I'm speculating as to the nature of the conversation and call me on some readings, wildly overreacted, Ann and sent this letter, which he then released saying we are. We are looking at this. He didn't say we're reopening the investigation and if you want look at something that suggests that that may have been the hinge moment in the campaign. It was the October 20th letter so in this sense that the moment that Hillary, in pain, stalled and Trump, eventually, one so

well. I don't want to look at the democratic line there at all. It doesn't make any sense to me, which is that Anne Mccabe was justified, sitting on this information and be James. Comi shouldn't have informed Congress in the way he did because eleven days afterwards, right before the election, these emails were discovered that they were duplicate of and they were already known about- and it wasn't really a big deal, even though it was a pretty fair here's. Here's what I would say if Makeba told call me in the first week of October home had told the House Investigations Committee that he would or share come with oversight oversight, whatever he was looking at this took him ten days to look at it. By the time he announced that Hillary was clear. It would have been like October 15th and would have been almost a month left to go with the campaign it wouldn't in two days before the election, when the last final impression of the campaign would have been the Hillary,

Hillary's emails run Anthony Weiner's computer. Look, it might even help because I'm a little there put the they put her through. Yet another thing that turned out to be nothing bursts out by the way. You will remember that on I said that call me. I've said three written three different pieces and commentary saying call we deserve to be fired one way is the day after the Hillary July fifth thing where he said that Hillary he wasn't going to prosecute Hillary, which I thought is a scandal not that he was going to prosecute Hillary. But if he wasn't going to prosecute Hillary, he had no business. Giving a public press conference in which he said he wasn't prosecuting her. That's not the way you do things if you're the FBI, you close an investigation. You inform the target of the investigation that it's closed. It is not public matter was out for him to do this to protect the FBI and secondly, if he was going use the charges that he used to against Hillary, he should have indicted her.

Couldn't say she handled her email was handled recklessly and seven cases she must have. Classified information and then daizo, either indite don't indict but don't issue an indictment and then say you're not going to indict, which is effectively what he did. So he should have been fired for gross reasons, any interference in a political campaign. Second was this whole fiasco and then third was the day that Trump fired him. And if you remember, despite the fact that everybody thinks it was so terrible to Trump fired him rose, Stein. The Debbie Tree General wrote a memo in which he basically echoed a lot of the stuff that I said about. Why Comi had? Actually, you know Comi, person who interfered the twenty. Sixteen electoral process was not Vladimir Putin, though he may want to play around it. It was James call who who is arguably and Andrew Mccabe in this rendering None of that is why Andrew Mccabe was fired. We have to say,

the reason that Andrew Mccabe was fired. To everything that we've heard. Is that the? Spectre, general of the Justice Department and uh. Partisan career employee who worked for under in this job under Barack Obama asked to Some questions about his conduct and Mccabe apparently lied to the inspector general. Other officials in the FBI who have lied to inspectors general under these conditions, have been fired. Mccabe was the second or third. King official in the FBI. The idea that inferior officers should be DIS, when with firing for doing what Mccabe did. But senior officials should not because they work there along time and deserve their pension would see. To be a horrible, Miss Reno, horrible misuse of elite standing right. So what we don't know

it doesn't. We don't have the report the report on out right, but in this rendering it doesn't matter what the what what it was that Mccabe did. It only matters what happened between him and the inspector general and whether he lies. So that's a good summary of why I don't understand the liberal narrative which has gone to the mattresses for James Comey is integrity and now interment caves integrity. When we we have plenty of evidence non is evidence, I mean the id was being attacked by the President on Twitter like two weeks ago and now there's a the inspector general just Horowitz and now he's being held as a fine, upstanding individual upon whose recommendation we are pursuing this course without a right so Trump in Hades attacks the inspector general, but sessions who fired Mccabe the attorney General uses the inspector general as his shield by saying I'm firing Mccabe, not because Trump told me to not because he's a terrible person, but because the inspector general and fork

rear officials in the Justice Department, the FBI support recommendation that he be fired and I have to I today, because Retires on Sunday right, so you can see where that has some merit in the democratic claim is sort of bunk, but from a political perspective, it looks petty it is not going to win. You any friends in the bureaucracy and it's sends a terrible message. We just dismissed the Secretary of State week ago less than we could go, and now we have more churn in the bureaucracy The administration which, if it was intent on governing, would like to send some signals about stability, and ability and administration is sending precisely the opposite signal that it will be all turn all controversy, all the time. I don't entirely agree on grand this because had trump not stepped on the story which will get to, I think you know

in helped sort of every step of the way by Revelations about this sort of Keystone feds, you know that if you know either bungled kings or slow walk things and and is another example of that right. Well, ok! So, let's get so, let's get to how they stepped on it. So, as I say, sessions does this by healing to the fact that this was a and partisan decision having to do with recommendations from Korea officials mean people who work the Justice Department, not as political appointees, but as people who do this for a living and are theoretically, therefore, not not and then Saturday morning what happened trump tweets out. There the the probe should be shut down and there's no collusion and his lawyer right says exactly the same thing

and Trump says which had which on and then Trump for the first time mentions dealers in a tweet and his lawyer says just as Jeff sessions did the brave thing and fired Andrew Mccabe. It is time for Robert Molars probe, to wrap up Trump's lawyer John Dowd links explicitly firing of Mccabe? Muller an the idea that it's time for Muller to seize the probe? Not liberals, not Chris Kase, not No, the Rachel Maddow Trump and his lawyer right story up until then was is no said that that Makeba done things that were indefensible and that's that's. That's a that's a decent going to be out there for Trump. I think actually right so. He was a good story and he ruined the store as he as he always does so, He can't let a good positive news cycle set, so

I don't know if it was a positive news cycle, because I don't know how many people accepted it because he said he started this. Two months ago by saying Andrew. It was terrible it. He is ninety days left to go firing. Question mark the positive news cycle. They didn't have the Oig report to site there. There you are thing them with their assessment of what the department is going to recommend and it's not as though the administration has any credibility on this issue or any build up goodwill. They have been vindictive. They have been aggressive and been very oriented churn. So if you think that this was something that was in the works for a long time, why would you give them any benefit of the doubt that it's based on the so IG report? It's clearly not well, I mean

I think it can. I also think that there's plenty of reason why the administration would want a very politely encourage this individual to keep his head down before. He has to take suspension and walks away. They had every justification for that, but I think I think it's as with all these things. Now it depends who's viewing and who's listening. I think, if you gave for certain Trump supporter and supporter and a number from number of them out there. This it was sort of vindication, we told you this funny business going on. But again who is listening to that I mean it's Sean Hannity, making the argument today on Fox and friends for an audience of one and who will Is is being persuaded by this? It's just keeping everybody in the. On the reservation. Who's been maybe a little rest, but it, but it it fortifies that side of the argument. Here's what upsets me, I think it's gonna say this is disgusting. That Trump is gloating about a firing in his you know at it in the executive branch,

He runs that is just vile personal behavior, acting like he wins a victory because Jeff sessions knuckles here to his pressure, an fire. Somebody like he's executive Mccabe may be a bad guy. Mccabe made deserve to lose his pension. Nobody deserves to have dismissal gloated over by the President, United States, that is just foul all behavior in any organization, and Trump doesn't get a pass because he speaks the truth and he talks for the white Working class. It's just disgusting It's just that simple fact the matter and I don't like Mccabe, I think Mccabe stinks to high Heaven. I think you know his. Is behavior over the last year and a half is very questionable. That said, it was a public for twenty one years he was fired. Lost millions of dollars. So far I mean if the intention was the intent was to prevent. Him

collecting millions of dollars in personal security for the rest of his life and may that's justified, and if it's justified, that's fine, you don't go and then like dance, a jig on his grave and on his check book. This is my point about the signals that this administration is sending. It comes a week after at the Secretary of State was humiliated, intentionally humiliated that his firing was really questionable, whether he knew about it or not. We don't really know, but apparently John Kelly goes telling people that he to this information. While he was on the toilet whi No other reason other than to say you know some sort of a dominance play. I don't understand this story by the way about Kelly at the White House meeting Joe laughing about how, when he called Tillerson was on the toilet because he had poisoning is traveling in Africa in Africa, because he was traveling as the representative of the United States in Africa a week after his father passed away. So I had her

the John Kelly was against Tillerson's firing and was defending Tillerson. But apparently Kelly was a noble public servant has done great things and as terrible, tragic family story is a jerk I don't know how else to hear the story about Tillerson I'm and not understand that he is a jerk and a putz and really really rotten person. All of it is a rotten thing to do all we're seeing here and it's from hammering is you want to like up like Trump he's, a in person. The people who work for him are encouraged to be lousy, they're encouraged to behave badly toward each other, and this is where role. Modeling is so interesting, so we've thirty years. Talking about whether or not you know, public figures should or shouldn't be role models, and should athletes be role, models and all this and I think the will conserve. Prescription is nobody is supposed to be a role model right Everybody is supposed to behave well publicly to create the impression that the that's

it's not about your personal? You know expression, it's about doing two forms of civility in public discourse and all that everybody's role model so in in Trump world, Everybody is a negative role model. It's a role model you're supposed to be braggadocious, rule mean ugly, confrontational and low right, so and Trump's behavior Thord Mccain was like this apparently in these two meetings with Mccabe Trump taunt Mccabe about the fact that his wife lost her election Virginia. What? What was for he wanted Mccabe to take a swing at him. He wanted to came to Christmas we could fire Mccabe. He was like baiting Mccabe. What kind of behave who is this? I mean I don't mean to be like you know, MRS Grundy or, like you know, some good what wit waving my finger in calling for detention, but you know what We get past all the politics there's. This is a very ugly There's. A practical concern here to this administration is very understaffed and it's no state.

Secret that it has a really hard time attracting talent. None of this is going to a problem any better and if you're in intricate, if you're interested in an executive branch of functions and got have a grand experiment in how much of the executive branch we actually need, and I think it's demonstrated that we have a pretty bloated it. Get branch 'cause. We can function at least passably, with about two thirds of the staff that it needs to work, but there not getting any senior talent and every leak that we've heard from who are getting out of this administration is that moving to the next stage of your life. Isn't easy This process, even though it you know Lee usually looks pretty good to have a white house on your resume. Has staffing job on your resume? Suggesting What they're telling reporters the people who are on background or anonymous that it's tough, it's tough to move on next rule. So why would anybody want to submit themselves to that? And we have three more years of this to go at least Abe say something say something I will hey, that's all without even bringing up the non disclosure agreements. So what about the

disclosure Agreement Abe, so it was revealed over the weekend that, if you, if you go to work in the Trump Administration You are asked to sign a non disclosure agreement whereby the White House it was in the White House right, yeah yeah, where you you cannot publicly despite disparage the president for life, under under penalty of a heavy fine and that will be paid to the government and that supposedly number people sign these It's clearly not enforceable. Law? It's a crazy paranoid!. Quasi legally league, I mean it says: I saw some sort of right, you're, you're undermining of of the actual system of a couple. Well, so the the the according to a draft, that the columnists Ruth Marcus of the Washington Post saw just know. If this is

final version, but it said that if you disparage Trump or you know, reveal information. We're not supposed to reveal that Trump that either the federal government or representative of Donald Trump can sue you uh, and we would pay heavy fines that would go to the government not not to trump, thus creating I think the for a I I mean either the federal government can sue you or a for a tour or or Trump can sue you depending on who you know decides. He wants to sue you first when you work for the federal government and you take a job as an template for Government- U raise your right hand and you swear to uphold the constitution of the United States of America. You do not swear to uphold the reputation of Donald J Trump, and you can

a document to that effect, but it's not clear the problem with these documents. Is they create now? It's almost certainly not enforceable Having said that, often, because there's, no exchange like nobody got anything if you sign one of these documents. Let's say the Stormy Daniels, the porn star sign? Usually there's a quid pro quo you get x. So that's why you can I'd, say in exchange for getting this job with the federal government. You agree never talk about somebody 'cause, that's not an exchange of goods and services, the Is that because you signed the document, this will still have the still a possibility that you will be litigated against. If you violate its terms and of course, Trump sue people so oh he'll sue you for violating your Nda and eventually

you'll win, but you'll incur hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, so this should be a deterrent to you doing whatever it is that he might, want to charge you with or he's just decides, he's angry at you and he sues you anyway, because he says you were an anonymous quote in a story and then you have to prove we're in the non was put in the story and that you didn't do it and they do blah blah blah. It's also very disturbing that This wasn't exposed go by someone who was completely outraged at the prospect. I mean you know that someone didn't come screaming out of the White House, saying they're, asking us to sign non disclosure agreements. This is ridiculous, yeah! Well, guess why? Because you know once once you're in you're. That's right, you know and like this is what it means to be a made man around Trump. You got to sign the paper you're not going to sign the paper you're going to sign the paper better sign the paper, I'm just putting in front of you, here's the pay There's also a White House counsel, who is

supposed to allow stuff like this to happen, but he seems to be a pretty bland so this is ever has stopped any leaks. I mean it's not like. This is a real impediment to talking to the press, but we also don't know what the statue Tatort. So it depends on what state like you could still get sued for the leak. By the way I mean how, Where does it say that there's a time limit on it? Maybe you could soon baby, your rights free, but first you know who's leaked right, we can never really make a report reveal a source is in a you know, really serious criminal proceeding people. Then they have gone to jail to protect their sources like Judy Miller right went to jail for ninety days. Protects would really be the I mean it's just a way of of intimidating people from talking, and it could still work, but you know you don't know who the leaker was. So it's more about books. I think it's more to make sure

somebody doesn't write the Michael Wolff book from the inside, but I you know, I don't know I mean, maybe maybe part of the deal that someone make with a publishing house will be at the publishing house, picks up the picks up the you know, Greece, to pick up legal fees for the Nda charge. You know the it's for, like a lot of goods and speaking of a lot of goods Abe, we have to talk a little about one of our favorite goods providers. Man It's 'cause! You were recipient of man crates. I want to tell people about man crates. First, ok, look it's impossible to buy a gift for a family member? It's impossible. People are. So you already given everything you can give. I don't know what piece of jewelry left to give my wife, you know a toll I don't know what I have left, but so

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this is a limited time. Offer get five percent right now it man, crates, dot, com commentary, band, creates dot com, slash commentary. We think man crates sponsoring the commentary magazine podcast now Moving on from Trump President, I'm past or whatever. We have a giant. Mercy brewing. That has many interesting aspects. Some are incredibly silly and deserve to be debunked, and some of them are really important to deal with stuff in the future. That is the political research firm Cambridge Analytica has come under fire, the store Britain, film per channel for which is, you have to really air somebody who works for Cambridge Analytica, claiming that he used untoward means to access fifty million facebook users. Profiles or something like that to get them

at their information so that he so that Trump plug Good Steve Ban and could the launch a revolution in consciousness and get Trump elected. As I understand it, and now Facebook gives do at a launching a review, and the guy says that you know he didn't do anything wrong, he's a whistle blower, but they suspended his account. And there's a lot of hysteria, so I'm going to I'm going to spend one it's saying why I think all of this is ridiculous, and then we can go on here's. Why it's ridiculous Cambridge Analytica is a targeted marketing firm, that is to say it purpose is to get people to get information about people to serve them ads. On social media. Now are you so you on Facebook. You know how it works right, so you have a running log in the middle. That is sort time specific, and you see stuff that your friends put up or whatever. And so you'll see new stories it turns out, are sponsored so

look at it. You might not, you might read it, you might not chances. Are you don't chances? Are only two percent of people read anything that's clicked on if they click on it. It just rolls on by what Cambridge Analytica does and what all these political firms did and what Obama did in twenty twelve and what everybody does is try to hit you with an ad that will bill to you, you'll open it you'll share it with your friends and information, and it will incline you to vote for the candidate that you were voting for in, Much the same way that if you watch a come, for progressive insurance, maybe you'll progressive insurance- maybe you won't chances, are you aren't going to since everybody doesn't by progressive insurance or, eat a subway sub or a Wendy's hamburger or whatever or by car that you, like. The Adam it's an ad campaign system, we've used it. It's called buying Facebook, ADS commentary. Everybody does it all media forever

and supported by a concept called target If you buy an add in commentary, you are attempting to reach the readers of commentary, we tell you who they are. We say they have this much money there. This type of person, they're mostly, this that and then we go out. We try to sell ads to put them in the magazine. This is what's going on, one hundred years and now book in social media, claim they can get enough information about people to really specifically market. You know that they're, jewish, you know that they're they're over fifty They live in a certain metropolitan area. You know that they like this stuff, that stuff and the other stuff does it work. It works find doesn't work whatever you know if it works. That's the point so this is Cambridge. Analytica start for TED Cruz work for TED Cruz that it worked for Trump Trump's own campaign guy who ran the digital marketing hated? Cambridge Analytica said that it was stupid badly. And did not provide

no help whatsoever to him. Campaign, which followed the Obama model of target marketing in its own way. So this is where we are with this narrative that Cambridge Analytica won the election for Trump, an a. An interesting idea about this Why? Why? Why it's silly, that they're using this in that this ad firm basically is check. It out, go ahead, I mean I I I really. I kinda hate this story for two reasons. I mean the overarching reason is that it's it's whiny, and it's whiny on on two fronts in that a it is now the beginning of a of a of another explanation for why Trump won, as opposed to he ran president. He ran against a terrible candidate. Ann and, and he had a significant number of supporters. This is you Leon the Russians, then you can blame it on unscrupulous, unscrupulous marketing campaigns.

Also whiny in this sense that there seems to be the idea that that the public has been betrayed by Facebook by by social media. They they they. They lied to us. They they've they've betrayed us who put their who, who had this sort of parental wish that that social media would be sort of looking out for them that Facebook would be taking care of them, I mean What do you know? This is as is this is what targeting advert he has always been yeah and it doesn't really work. It's not like this is a new concept. Political people in when I was in the business of covering the it's politics in uh, nine and ten were, really jazzed about this concept of micro targeting which is serving ads and serving impressions and targeting voters.

Based on their individual in information, so that you're getting them the message that they want, if they're really into education issues than you serve them education issues and you don't serve their neighbor education issues, but the second technology existed, that you were able to. Target somebody With a really narrow slice of information and off ten times negative information, because negative campaigning works better than positive campaigning. It was obsolete because same technology that allowed you to get that micro target information to one particular voter allowed voter to broadcast this micro, targeted message to a lot of voters who weren't supposed to hear it. In the first place, court targeting didn't to begin with, and even though it was just this big super fat on the on the political scene, it was, it was a disaster. There's also there's also this. Other element in that Obama won the per with the presidency that the first time yeah his time really was. It's second time that they really the victory lab was

so actually Isenberg's book about how these techniques were used for Obama was two thousand and twelve through the campaign was pray for its brilliant exploitation of social media, like that was. That was an indication that he was with the times that they were smart, that we're doing things in a new way. It was was praised to the Heavens. You know. Well, there is an outgrowth of this. That's really run this The russian means investigation where these russian bots were promoting Bernie Sanders and Hill and Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton and doing so in the most ludicrous and fashion imaginable, like Bernie Sanders, he presented as somebody who's like Buff and had big muscles, and that was supposed to influence your vote. There's really famous on that I keep referencing, because it's so incredibly stupid is the uh Satan and Jesus arm wrestling and then you're supposed to click like if you want

these is to win, because Satan wants Hillary Clinton to win or something along those lines. I don't know it was insanely stupid and it was presented on the floor of Congress by members who, staffers blue these advertisements up in big Kinko's, letters in in these in these in these big placards, where they were saying, this is indicative of russian intervention and it has something to do with what what happened in twenty sixteen Donald Trump one. This seems like an outgrowth that? Which is really an effort to say you know all these must have been bamboozled. Somehow, into voting for Donald Trump, there's no possible way that they could have supported them. Obviously and with the with sound mind. They must have been brain washed subconsciously conditioned by these advertisements into supporting Donald Trump. Well, you know, basically, the argument that no one should have voted for Trump. Now has seventeen different facet and they're all fine with the people who hate Trump and think it should have been elected. So there's the they were bamboo

the brain washed by the Russians, and they were it. Was there just all a bunch of racist, create nests neanderthals who want to keep you know, might blacks down in minorities and prevent the inevitable demographically a multicultural future and misogynist who didn't want a woman and there you know economic backward lookers who don't understand the glory. Global future and are looking to ridiculous solutions that won't help. And whatever else, and the interesting thing is. While these things are often mutually contradictory, the deep state they are mutually contradictory there acceptable to anybody who doesn't like Trump, like that, it's all fine. It doesn't matter whether the argument you make is one. About how people just don't know what they were doing

Bing or they knew what they were doing all too well. By the way we should say that had Donald Trump lost, all of these arguments would survive and Donald Trump's This will be making them, because we know that Russia was out there supporting Hillary in a very similar way, according to the Mueller indictments that they organized trump demonstrations after Donald Trump won, they would have done precisely the same thing had Hillary Clinton one and we know that they were doing so in fact, and the uranium one story with him once it would be huge. The deep state in the FBI, which was a big bugaboo for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton supporters, because Donald Trump supporters somehow getting information from inside the bureau, indicative of the secret deep state that was supporting, trump in the FBI, not the other way around. So these and how to pull this today. That demonstrates that this is a really bipartisan phenomenon. In Monmouth poll that says that there is a deep conspiracy, and at seven

two percent of Republicans and seventy two percent of Democrats for a total of, I think seventy four percent of the public believe that there is a deep state right, only it's a different, deep state. So for Republicans it's active state. That's you know trying his story trump from within, but with the framing Carter page in order to create a counter narrative to Hillary's being a an agent of Vladimir Putin, which is the most head, Spinning Lee preposterous that of theses that I've ever really heard and then, of course there is the demo Deep state idea, which is that you know the FBI. New York office got help, get Trump elected and that, of course, everything that went on in the use is of Vghs survey. And since the beginning of the Bush administration was all a way of keeping track of undesirables and created,

and it's all blame shifting. It's only it only really only peaks, it's head up with the administration hits the skids when they experience a success like the past, x code reform or you have egg roll out of the of the so called, supposedly going to happen meeting with Kim Jong and look up. There was at the state that meeting isn't going to happen that mean. It would be interesting now now you're, creating a creating a verifiable yeah. I don't know what the same thing would have happened. Falsifiable, verifiable data, Hillary Clinton would not have had very much. Success is legislatively because she would have had to deal with at least one chamber of Congress, probably both that were held with by Republicans, and they say were left, seems very inclined to outsource, Their failures onto some sort of other conspiracy theory, just like Donald Trump supporters, so the same conditions would prevail. You know you remind me of the fact that when we all thought that hill at that, that Trump is going to lose and Hillary is going to win, our presumption was that we were going to live through hell

right in twenty seventeen that the the bench there was going to be kind of battle for as Trump would not accept the results of the election. He would not concede, and then people like us would be blamed for the fact that he lost and there would be a pitched battle in on the right to that, would you know, serve consume everything and Trump being a you know, a disruptor would like nothing more and then to create some, a political movement that he might exploit in some fashion or other every moment. Adding to this of this- and you know, drove trumpeting things that could you know sort of like interfere with Hillary's you, going on with her agenda and then so what happened was this didn't really happen in reverse, but that trump style he brought come to the way out so he's the president, but he still acting like a crank and then

crank is just starts to overtaking certain precincts on the left, or there is nothing that they won't believe, including the idea that the guy who is now, as we keep saying, as imposed incredibly Sanctions on Ukraine has tricked trigger the magnets. The act against many of pollutants closest no way associates the US. You know intruding in his cook autocracy, various other woman. When that cast a interceptor missiles to Poland, opening up a little to grand right, stop using diplomatic property right. So they still think that the guy who did all this or let all this happen under his administration was Elec did any is Putin's puppet. That is psychosis. I mean it's psychosis in the sense that they're looking at the real world happening in front of them, and it doesn't matter because they have another. They have

a line of argument running through their heads that drowns it out and drowns it out and it you know. This is also, I think an extension of the danger of this of this is from Manter. We heard early on after Trump was elected from left, which is don't normalize him, don't normalize this. This isn't normal. So in their effort to sort of not treat this. The Trump presidency, as normal they've sort of abnormal eyes that they've gone outside of the realm of reality, finding one fantastic scapegoat after another coming up with. One reasons not to believe the facts that in front of their in front of their eyes after another, and that's a dangerous thing, and every time a story or an accusation. Like this gets fed into the public discourse, it makes it that much harder to bring the conversation back to what's actually it would be very nice if this kind of conduct, the worst behavior out of this president, administration were not normalized, but I have no illusions

this being the mirror image of how Democrats to behave in office, particularly because we have Hillary Clinton who still behaving like a candidate going off and speeches about how awful Donald Trump's campaign was in a you get. The some of that has been x can extended to the somehow she was attacking voters and there's some dispute about that that she was referencing only the campaign. Whatever was it doesn't matter, but what she's saying abroad is that tunnel trump is a race in a big. It ran a bigoted racist campaign, appealed the bigots and racists, and you might my indian audience, should the appeal to me as your president in exile, but, but it remembers John said early on when when there was all the talk of not normalizing from this is by virtue of the fact that he's got a let and then is president- and this is how he is conducting himself in the White House. This is now norm. Is it is it is? You know it is to be institutional confirm if you don't like that, change that, but but but to sort of pretend that it's not what the what the state

This quote right now, but that's not the way things are, there's some Tennessee on the right, and it's mostly on the right that some candidate on the democrat or republican challenger. Somebody would run on like a a return to normalcy kind of like run Calvin Coolidge's campaign? listen, we're going to we're, run a really boring Redmond rations is gonna, be quotidian and custodial, and you will hear very much from us and social media, no social media, and you know that we will be changing the planet earth behind you. We we will be ray arching for anything grand we are going to just make the gears run and no one is interested in that, except for maybe thirteen people who write about politics from this lofty olympian thought leadership mission, everybody else likes the drama. Look we did, to ourselves. He is president- and this is the thing that's very hard for people who don't vote for people who win. Okay, you did it,

So this is what it's like in a republic with fifty states and everything like that. Like the hold that we live in is the world that we ourselves have constructed and it made it symbol for Trump to get elected, and that's I it's normal it's norm. Because he won three hundred and six electoral votes, not because it's normal, because he was a reality, tv star who somehow magically you know manifested himself in the White House. We made him president. He followed other people who did things that made it possible for him to seem normal Bill Clinton's person peccadilloes Brock, Obama's elevation of a kind of show, is personality to you know, mythical. Status. Thus elevating start! over political experience or whatever you want to call it. We the store sells. It is normal change,

things will come when we behave differently toward these things. Give you an example of this in social media terms, so. A story came out the other day or yesterday, or something like that that there is a council and in ward, eight in Washington DC, who claimed in a video that somebody got that the Rothschilds made it snow. A lot in Washington DC the Jews made it snow. Okay, obviously. This guy is an idiot and moron in filthy anti semite in the journey you have to get it. Probably twelve thousand votes got him elected wherever he was and who the hell knows right. By the end of this week. This guys, I can't don't even know his name 'cause, I decided wasn't gonna learn his name by the end of this week it's going to be nationally famous because

been socially is gonna, go crazy and say: oh, my god, look at this. It's so horrible. The ADL make a statement and as it should- and you know this and that people would be announcing it, and then people start defending him and said well. I've looked he's only flexing pay all this, and by Thursday he will be more famous than anybody in Washington in Washington City Council and he will become a kind of paradigmatic figure of some sort and that's the world. We live in the world we live in, elevates the sort of and if we don't If somehow we don't stop that, not that I have any idea how we stop that, then I make uses for the both of the right and the left that you're to the sort of inner inner sexuality argument, which is to basically hold you can't attract anybody from the coalition, because you only have as many as so many arms of a the winning coalition. You can get so who are you to judge this anti Semite or this racist? And why would I

now. Why would I denounce this organization? Donald Trump, on asked about the KKK? I don't know anything about this organization. You wouldn't want me to denounce them in the same excuses were made during the second great awakening about Lewis. Farah Khan. That there are Ella so the democratic coalition that are just as Dimora. And disparaged in and looks down upon, is the anti Semites in their midst. Then there miss so when they say we're supposed to be denouncing this people. It's not like. You say that about why people or asian people, or what have you? This is only something in a you will apply to african Americans. So why would we comply with this? It's just all excuse making yeah and- and it creates a condition in which extremist, I don't even mean politically could be emotional extremist. It could be, you know, body. Will body morphing extreme all. That is what gets your attention because it's like we're junkies and we have hit that point at which

A normal dosage of heroin doesn't get us high, so we just have to keep upping it and I'll bring it and upping it, and if we don't get, no kick it as a sake. He not. This is the normal. Trump is no different from Caitlyn Jenner. I mean Trump is no different from black lives matter, or you know some. You wildly extreme group on the other, they're, all manifestations of the same Work in reality- and you know I I my guess- is we don't come out of it. I mean what that is going to mean, for you know, like my kid your kids are there and their future? I don't know, but I don't know how come out of it. You have a religious real. A giving or moral re shuffling. I mean that doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that happens anymore, so not to get too apocalyptic, but I think it's very hard to look at the way people react to things like Cambridge Analytica just to get back to the top.

I can say why? Are you going so crazy about this? You know why? Because everybody wants some easy dumb one Bing explanation. One size fits all explanation to explain why things have gone wrong. So it's like a it's because of ads on. He spoke that Trump is now destroying the west. Really it's that that was that to destroy buying a couple hundred million dollars of ads on facebook- that's all it took. Then the west really must not have been very hard already. Then no- and you know I mean Trump proved this all I mean we spent a year talking about that stupid birth certificate. Then we I didn't. I wasn't here at the time. Where were you I was at Mediaite during that I mean

we, I mean America. I don't mean we hear a commentary right. Well, I still tried to avoid it as much as I possibly could we log commentary. We lost donors, we lost several donors because quote, we said this is the we are pop. I wrote a blog posts about how it's absurd the birth certificate. Controversy was, and I mean I know we lost a couple hundred thousand dollars a year in donations from people who just love the pursuit of a good story. So you know that's like they won, they want, they they're very, very happy with their president. I'm sure, although we know he seems to kind of be soft peddling, the birth certificate thing now like shouldn't eat going after it shouldn't he be really looking into it with all the powers of the presidency 'cause. We still haven't had an answer on that. That's true yeah, I don't know, he's dropping the ball on the birth certificate,

Yeah get yeah you with all of our many listeners in the White House. That's where we're encouraging you now to get back on the birth certificate thing all right. Well, it's been great talking to you guys, see Sorab were here, he would bring a cup of leavening um, I know he might defend someone who knows anyway, so I will be back on Thursday for a remote in or Rothman of John Podhoretz keep the candle burning.