On this first podcast of the week, Noah Rothman and Abe Greenwald and I try to make sense of who is to blame and basically decide that... but why would I tell you here? You need to download or stream the podcast to find out! This is a cliffhanger! Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Some guy welcome. Commentary magazine podcast, I'm John path towards the editor of commentary. This is Monday March, twenty seventh, twenty seven. What's me is always a Greenwald are senior out of their high aim. High John Noah Rothman are associate editor Heino, a high John, and we are awful weekend of recrimination and blame finger. Pointing and blame gaming with a general sense that everybody who had their fingers
anywhere near the American Health CARE Act for good or ill is responsible for its catastrophic disaster. The people who torpedoed it, are guilty of death. I'm nascent republican press then see the republican presidency is in turn, because it's revealed itself as being hollow, powerless and influential with its own people and unable to work it's will. They were hobbled. Leadership in the house is revealed as bumbling. Not in control of its own narrative and very likely not to me trusted by anyone going forward about how it counts, votes or where it thinks the parties politicians are gonna go. So it's said it's a bad seen for
publicans and a gleeful seen for Democrats and liberals, Who only go two weeks ago, we're still inveighing about the likelihood of fascism coming to the United States, as opposed to this version of the gang who couldn't shoot straight, which is what were, which is what we are seeing: the name of Jimmy Residence famous nineteen sixty men, novel about a bad mafia, family gently wrestle of course, having died last week, Abe, Ura you're. You saved me straining at the bet your leaning into the MIKE Short life two points. One is that I think the game contrition was a great book, but it horrible movie, really one of the worst move. One of the weather is one of the worst. I only know that only heritable for thee being led Davy performance of Robert too narrow. That's that's right! That's right! Who didn't speak English in Berlin right, but the other narrative that's gone now
just out of this was is remember how we, how we ve been hearing. Look, how that look, how the GEO pages Cave tromp everyday, opposing they oppose him and now and they and they now they have all fallen and lie behind him. Look how fast they they were happy due to jump at this shouted power? And now we see we see that that that there are in fact, very fractured beneath the surface in its places, new baseless narrative has given his being erected witches that recalcitrant concern It is in their unthinking reflexive opposition to anything rumbled resembling governance, are scuttling this presidency and your seeing that right, you're, seeing that from people like me, will they me who was EL from now the or be director who was himself a member of the founder of the house. Freedom caucus said this on meat, the press yesterday, what just look I'm in this coming from the Wall Street Journal editorial born and others who are simply sympathetic to that point of view. If you believe in New York Times reporting- and I do regarding the region,
really truly hard and fast no votes at the end of the day, and they were a flexible and they moved up and then all over the place, but it wasn't the entirety of the House: Freedom caucus. Twenty, almost thirty, some on members, really know how many there, but that wasn't. All of them who are responsible for this thing about fifteen knows exactly fifteen knows were hard and fast and weren't moving at the end of the day, we also had a lot of moderate saying you know nondescript other representatives of the of the GEO Peacock S conference, rather, who were frustrated with this bill from the left regarding its YO caps on medicate expansion, for example. So you know it was sort of a sea saw that was very poorly managed from of leadership and the White House, but to pin all the blame on conservative for this thing. Failing is, is just baseless, no think actually you could make the case using apes. I think original point that the peace, oh, who fell in line behind Trump, were people of less
a hardened ideological coloration, who couldn't make sense tat of what was going on and so like ranks previous, let's say, and I didn't understand how, where the party was moving and where the country was moving and figured that Trump had. You know anew uncovered a formula for success that men he was somebody you were just supposed to follow because he knew something that you didn't. I was a story, the campaign right- and I think that after the campaign that, of course he breaks the electoral law, key wins wins the election. Then what do you want to do is the pressure of your party. This and you're gonna fall my well. It turns out that the IMF and forces types of Republican, given conservative behaviour that have been present for the law Seven years are I will present Republicans aren't report
in politicians aren't beholden to the leadership of there. They're, know behold the party, because the party does not distribute to the party, because the party does not distribute that much money to over them than the party doesn't authority over them that it use to they. It's much more important to them for their own perspectives that they not get attacked by talk radio that they can raise money from outside groups like the club for growth, like that, like the coax Americans. Prosperity other groups like that, because there's more money there than there is in the Irish Sea and the National Congressional Campaign Committee and they don't the last thing they needed to be accused of selling. Out of you know, being a standard issue. Republican politician murder, you, like mainstream politician, so. They're incentives didn't change just because Trump got elected. We all thought that they had. We all thought that the fact of Trump sitting
was a sufficient disincentive to the way it is usually most Most cases did any one in his party because his displeasure would lead to unpleasant results tweeting against them, too. Using the mechanisms of the party against them, but look consider the house. I think we talked about this on Friday, I mean it. Reserves used to have all sorts of ways to keep its members in line and largely deriving from withholding benefits from them that they could get lost in the form of earmarks. These specific pieces of spending increases districts in the Republicans removed, earmarks as a as a thing you that existed when they took over the house and twenty eleven so earmarks no longer exist. Well, it turns out that that, as that's one form of good governance, that turns into very bad governance when you need to be able to negotiate with insight,
you're on your own coalition, so Trump comes in trumpet turns out is far far less revolutionary figure than we thought it was. Because you know he doesn't even keep his own. You can't even keep his own coalition in line speaking We were talking in the office about this and I feel, like Donald Trump, has not received nearly enough blame for the collapse this bill, as he actually deserves, partly because of it as we are talking about the incentive structures, but he didn't really manages time very well. He did give into some conservative demands regarding quoting quota, essential benefits, which eased the objections of a lot of house. Conservatives who are otherwise press by this bill, but it also made moderates disappear, and so the bill went down a long story short, but as far you know. Coalition building, we ve seen some Anxiety within the White
but also house can conservatives you had Adam Cleansing or say this absolutely remarkable thing about how the house Republicans were interested in governing now have to create some sort of a new coalition with moderate Democrats, as though this were parliament, I don't think that's exactly how it does the Congress functions, particularly in the house, but then you also having enough Donald Trump, very vaunted tweet, where he wasn't attacking Republicans in Congress necessarily, but he told everybody Auctioning Bureau shall only acts which when, with a monologue about how Paul Ryan should resign and Howard Donald Trump should work exclusively with Democrats in order to govern right. So, first of all, you know if there is a. If there is a working mass of moderate Democrats of the house. I would like someone to pointed out to me
the other story. The last ten years has been the the crater ring of the moderate democratic centre means in an answer. The pushing of the Democratic Party too, to the Lapham trumps election has they may that even more pronounced, so the idea that there are nevertheless to be Congress with both parties and almost every state, from various complicated reasons, and so I did a Democrat Democratic in the south had to watch, is back ideologically and make some common cause with Ronald Reagan or George Bush or George W Bush. Those guys barely exist anymore, just as their barely or any liberal Republicans in the in the north. This is in the the house there some of the still does exist in the Senate. You have the Susan Collins made at the said. It was a basically illiberal were hobbled. Getting you have. You know have Joe Mansion. West Virginia was essentially a conservative Democrats or you have you do have these peoples
system set up, but they don't exist in the house barely and the other thing is that so the Republican Party is a complicated coalition. Fine It's got the majority, it's the notorious alot of people. All parties are listen some of the Democrats managed to have segregationist em. You know, and I M a black liberation us, in the party together, you know from the forties to the Seventys and none the less get things done. You know, that's not that's not as though Parties in America, don't we have dont have to form the when their successful, and they have a lot of people in them. They have competing cross I ideologically, regionally and and your point about the earmarked so with with with the removal of earmarks that puts a higher premium on powers.
Persuasion of building relationships of trying to convince without these these tools of coercion and- and these are things that Trump cannot do- maybe it was just a really bad. Bill. I mean. Maybe there's no way out of line around a terrible peace alleges. First of all, it was a terrible bill, an end to say the old. The reason that we're talking about it in this fashion is because it was the maiden bill of a president who has never been in politics before and so Oh, this is a harbinger of his latterly a thing in itself about what's gonna happen with american health care, but it's a harbinger of, to come, because either either they will learn what they did wrong and try to make it right the next time or whoa did if they were distributed spectacularly unsuccessful, present see that it's gonna get the minimum done largely keep the light time and the doors open, but you know the government doors open, but other than that will get
solely nothing that it wants, even though it nominally has majorities in both house and set it all the thinking it. We want from the Trump perspective arm big government labour legislation infrastructure, the wall, that, with the exception of tasks, reform, I guess and deregulation, which necessarily New Congress for a casket. For me really do. Everything else is a is a progressive priority, but that's the unit. The irony of of of trumpets that he is this sort of my non partisan figure in terms of ideology and policy, but he conducts himself as the most aggressive, partisan. We ve ever seen so So how is he going to reach out while he's calling them? You know clowns and crooks. I don't know, if he's an aggressive policies, and this is where this is where it gets interesting, so he wins, he you know
probably voters or forty five percent republic. Voters like or enjoy his stick. Bullying it always does like political, correct mercy, bully though he tells the truth or a breeze funny. Does they stand proteins? Is you know these? That's gonna bout of convention? tell it like. It is all that and then then he gets the nomination. We basically sir solidifies himself among Republicans and that's how he how he wins the presidency, but his behaviour is not that of a part of this just of a you know I've been in em. So a lot of republicans like that apparently still do there's a story in the Toronto star by David Dale, where he goes around interviewing traverses Adam If he's lying about the servant, I like I love it, causes decades. It has again. We know he doesn't give quarter anywhere. Ok, so so the problem is that
You know this is he also thinks this is what got him elected, so he thinks like being a bullying. Jerk is a good way to behave and the problem is it then people under him think that being a bowling jerk as good way behave. So you know the most interesting detail to me in one of the stories over the weekend. Was this meeting at the White House in which Steve Ban and sat across from Republicans and said: look, you have no choice. You have to vote for this bill. You must for this bill and the thing is what the hell do Steve Ban and know about anything I mean seriously. You know these guys have faced voters for decades. States, senators and, and they ve been below they. They ran for Government president than they were. They were in student government in college and they get out with we ve done is run at elections, a lot of them and he's sitting there, a guy who ran a website. August twenty. Sixteen like he. He is in a position to tell them what they have to do.
And it's a very strict was a very striking thing. Is it's like you know it's fun into be arrogant, except when you're in ignoramus. You can't it it's one. You can be arrogant if you're, the smartest sky the room, but if you're a and ignoramus who doesn't know anything about the incentive. Structure that is facing the people facing you. Even you could say, look guys. You know you understand that everything that we want everything that we work for for less weight is is at risk. If we don't win this, then We can't move on to face to face Threephase for whatever you know. You got a vote for this bill. I mean just out of our out of the Vienna. Think of the country you mean Ivan. That's not what ban in Daily just said. You have to vote for this bill and apparently not one of the guys in the room. Said the last time anybody talk to me like that. I was eighteen there my father and I didn't like it when it was my father, so that's Trump then
read these many trumps around him, like Guenaud, spices, handling of the media which really unnecessary is unnecessary. To make that much of anatomy media. Even if David deals, friends in trump limb, you know like hearing them be so combative but, as you say so frequently diet that David Gales, friends and trump land amount to a plurality at best and most likely a minority. You can't govern outweigh new look. Simple fact. The matter is, you know they haven't reckon with the fact that it was covered. That none of us is. This is a very complex, hated electoral situation that he's in because they have
controlled the house, the Senate and the presidency right bushed had that from two thousand and three to two thousand and seven, but Republicans had had not had that ever like since added the twenties right and yet they have. With a president who absent a hundred thousand very well chosen votes in a well geographic, smart votes, what got. A guy who lost with forty six percent of the vote to someone who won with forty eight percent. He got the right hundred thousand hundred twenty thousand votes in a certain area he came in as a minority president with a plural quality of the route you know with a plurality of support like hard support, the Republican Party, and he has done nothing to build, it he's nothing to grow. It outward, and I just think about this in a litany of things: it's had that had happened since the election, so he
elected on January twentieth. Does he announced on January twenty? First, like we're gonna build we're gonna do infrastructure bill, I'm having a conference here in the White House will bring. I invite Chuck humor I invite Nancy Pelosi to sit at the table with us and we're gonna set Morgan Ex construct a bipartisan infrastructure bill, like put them on the spot, Like say, this is what we're doing. No he's and three days, gambling about crowd size. I mean that's what he spent his first week on Yamlang about crowd size he that he's. Never. He isn't spent one day, pudding, Democrats on the defensive with Lemon priorities that he controls and now there is no reason for them to be on the defensive ever because the whole people don't want them to do anything
to help others now can be. This insistence on you know filibustering Neil WAR such which is stupid, because if they filibustered will worsen, the Republicans will involve the nuclear option and that will be the end of a sixty vote margin for you now for Supreme Court nominees, but they're gonna have to do it anyway, because their donors are demanding it so they sell theirs. Oh defensiveness, not there's nothing in which Democrats argument have feel like they had their there on the defensive. This is why trump There is a lot more blame for this thing. They rise then he's getting because his managerial style here was absolutely atrocious. This is that the dispatch of banning, as the stick was part of his big public negotiations prodigy where he said you know I'm done negotiating over this thing. Carrots are over now, it's time for either you're with us are against us, and a lot of people are still very comfortable being against them and ban, and probably only hardened that sentiment and now he says after all that
after alienating conservatives will I'm done with you. I'm gonna go work. Democrats as though, that's only but that's not gonna continue to harden this kind of resistance sees. It seems to think that he doesn't really need His own party, even get legislation on the floor, let alone get votes for it. Ok, let's also talk about. The house is very interesting aspect of this. What does trump a around to more than anything else. People who, in the house rights per this, was in the house until it being governor of Indiana Tom Price, health and Human service secretary was in the rights previous was an aid in the house, met with the army. Director was the budget committee in the house like the there I to know the house met. Beauvais me should have known that this bill was. As you know, was, was going south he'd just the hapless two and a half months ago,
I mean any of us sitting around the table. Any conservative with any kind of viewers are there, for you knows the only thing that lead me to believe that this bill was gonna pay ass was the. As in some we're a version of the bad, an argument which is well. They can't let this happen like how how Israel Looking governance going to survive the loss of this first bill, like you, don't have to swallow o hearted vote for it because and then maybe hopeless and it kills it or something, but at least you can't be responsible for putting a stake in the heart of the presidency, but it turns out. There was no incentive structure for a bunch of these people to do to serve do right by Trump, even if it goes against them. That's the interesting part you know, as I said, the calm last week, Bill Clinton went to Marjorie, Margolis Nesvitski, knowing that her vote for him,
budget bill and ninety three, which involve the tax increase, was going to lose her seat and she knew it and he knew what there was pulling the district. That said, if she voted against it, she would she would survive. If she voted for head, she would lose Clint Winter and said the presidency is as on the wine here. Please do this and she did and she lost her seat and her only real reward, for that was the fifteen years later her son Mary Chelsea clip. So I mean people and she's gonna, be in the Senate by twenty twenty. So it comes around who Chelsea Elsie? Ok, I thought you met merger Bulk, Barclays residents calibre and who was no lie or residents key pillar brands. Can we presented an offer? She can't refuse and it's the Clinton seen going forward. I dont think that this is going at. This is going to change at all from Trump and from ban and emitting trumps can continue
I believe that he is the voice of his great catharsis and these love for that. That's, what's important and bent he's gonna. U now put on his black costume and say you have to do this and it won't work and their they're not gonna, get results. So it's gonna come to the conservative establishment around them to try to this together, some semblance of of of governance. Good governance here will look it's very soon bull either trumpets gotta do is get a clean house at some point in the next six months or he's not, and if it cleans house his presidency has a chance of success and it doesnt clean has it doesn't every class, now to replace the chief of staff. You know, I mean people this, this happens, you know original teams, don't don't work well. Clinton saved his presidency by replacing varies chiefs of staff at his friend Macro Claudius. First, chief of staff was like his best friend from when he was five
so we could trust implicitly, but who was terrible at the job, so cleaning Haskins Jettison banish the abandoned bandit rights. I mean you have to what is really one of the others. No, the boy I think rate. To be honest, I mean that's what I'm saying if you look at this, the managerial fashion, Tramell chaos likes this. We like seventy likes the other thing if he doesn't empower a person to take charge of the White House who knows what the hell is going on and knows how to run and knows how to run something but but be staff. I mean I tweeted this out this week, the James Baker who, as you know, arguably the best ways of has to staff of the last fifty years said the chief of staff. Still staff, like he's a staff guy, he's a staff guided the president. He is not the boss, he is not the his staff, and so he doesn't have a public profile here
go on tv shows he doesn't he's not a spokesman for the. He is making sure that the truth that the of the week work and everything is Greece than the and the sister works interagency system in the and the executive officer, the president work and things get around and things are function efficiently. And trumpet as a lot of little potentates, so he's got banned, once the higher chief of staff and right to as the chief of Staff and Jared wants it evil Kelly Am Conway was looking for a chief of staff there all supposed to be. Staff there, that's was to be principles. Trump is the only principle and arguably pets. That's it. That's I mean I. Briefly, the white has that's: how good White House works if there's a guy who helps the press head shield them protect him. Puts think puts the right things on his desk the paper on his desk, so that he knows what he has to do and what he doesn't have to deal with hands. There
controversies. Let's things percolate through the system and the president has to make a decision, yes or no, and something about which there is a disagreement stuff like that, every they submit to the system of actually Obama did. Bush did second, Bush did Clinton did Reagan. Did everybody does if Trump doesn't he's finished his toast? It can't be done and the other way you know at the risk of being really dramatic, kicking Bannon out and having him on the outside and angry. You could could cause a problem for Trump. Could not. I mean it- has been a could go to work on the on the populace basin and an attack, the ministries and equip itself so is put having who the hell is banned. In again, I say that it is a no honey, I mean he ran a lousy website. They got a lot of attention because it you know, because if it is, you know it fed raw meat to the beast, but he may
lousy documentaries, he made a good indication deal in ninety, mainly one you know he had. This is done like a major american figure, I think he could rally a certain portion invasion space, but also could so could disaffected conservatives. I mean nobody's really talking about this, but conservatives are really disappointed with the direction in which this Congress decided to go with this, and its failure is sort of motivating, but it also means that Obama cures here for a long time and that's a huge disappointment. The conservatives and I don't think we really were fully reconciled with how disappointed they are in both this administration, and this Congress, but if there are much bigger base, but whenever steed banning the rapporteur with the thing is, the trump Trump got. Sixty three million votes Baron had you know, ten million hits. I mean you just can't compare the to conserve, disaffected conservatives, the problem for them, and the problem of this cases
Ryan said look. This is what we can do with a bill that has to the kid that has to get through the Senate. With fifty two votes- and this is our best shot- if we're going to get savings taxation on budget at argued. I'm just saying it doesn't matter what argument he makes in this sense. I'm saying that what was what was what was put forward was he knew Look Ryan knew that the bill was a mess. I'm sorry you don't put you dont say you have four days, on this piece of legislation to your own people who are your own friends if you'd, if you're, not worried that if they get into the energies of the bill they're not going to say wait. I don't like this. I don't like that. I don't like the other thing. You want them not to read that you want them not to know anything about it. Well, current conditions in the United States make that impossible anyway. There too, the crowd, the crowd sourcing, the analysis is now total. So you put the bill
out at its true twenty five years ago. Nobody would have no more was in the bill. Now you have ten thousand people with some academic expertise, were instantly hitting section. Twenty two sub section: three insane. You know what that's gonna cost about: eleven thousand dollars per person. That kind of thing like you didn't have to wait for C B, O score: there were enough. People who could see What was going on the innards of the bill to get worried about that, never used to happen. That's a new thing and Ryan felt Cross as other, but he would only have insisted on pushing the bill on everybody. That way. Because he knew was a dumpster fire. What you identifies a communication strategy that was lacking and the heat in thinking, either Locations for no quite the opposite, going through quite likely quite the opposite, like the communication strategy was to communicate as little as possible and for a force there have and make them vote for it, but it turned out that it was a bats itchy and builds a bad bill, not because The question is whether there could have been a good bill,
in other words the structure of trying to get something through reconciliation, with only fifty one votes in the Senate. May that knowledge They were starting from that point, may made it totally impossible for there to be good bell. The other thing I think that is important to note is that Ryan. The policy wants to end all policy works. And people and healthcare that I know who are like seriously policy waggish. They were enthusiastic about this bill because it featured the reform of Medicaid, the first major reform of this programme in half a century since its creation, it was very important to them. It's apparently you know like that that the image in theory- and I don't really- I don't understand the mechanics of it- is vitally important to the reforming of this programme and cleaning. It opted for
to work the way Ryan wanted to with a way the new legislation would have had it and that's what he wanted now. Here's, what interesting trump doesn't care about, Medicaid or Medicare. Socially, he doesn't care about the entitlements. Although medicate of we're kind of entitlement cause, it's up, you know you don't know everybody. Is you only get it? If you have under fifteen thousand dollars, you earned income, so doesn't functions it, meaning that you know you just if you're sixty five and older you get Medicare period for six. If I were you get so security peer, everybody in America gets it right, but it's a me, and so this would have an entitlement reform. Whelp Robert Draper of the New York Times magazine interviewed Trump last week and said: who care about Toby reformat he's had a couple. No time reform is arguably the single most important thing on the american Doc it on the governmental docket in the United States. In our time, and if they doesn't happen at some point, the next fifty years,
the government is gonna, go broke in America's gotta, go broke as the baby boomers age. If medicate, if Medicare in particular, isn't reformed and the structure is reformed, this country will be spending a hundred per cent of the current intake of the government, which is about four trillion dollars on that alone. So we don't, that and so Ryan. That's the fixation arrives. Life trump could care less so dry and trick trump. Into a big Medicaid reform and that's heads. You know was that was the gold in here, but it actually had it, and it is part of health care. Reform, of course, goes medicate as a health care, but it wasn't reforming the USA. Mandates on was a reforming the mandates on insurance companies and specific
Formulas for recompense rules of Bobby doctors and all the stuff that we think of ass, a bomb care the thing the things that make us logo Vomica, let's say so that's the interesting other aspect of this- is that Ryan had an agenda that was actually slightly separate from the real big agenda chasing. He did trick. The president was banned. Booze old worked his magic sorcery and made from danced is too well. What did he say to trump? He said: look we have to do this first, because if we can get four hundred billion dollars in savings scored by the sea, Bio and savings of deficit savings. We can take that forty billion and apply it to tax reform. So we do this. First, we get that four hundred billion and then and then we have forty billion free and clear to cut corporate taxes with which, as you know, we cork cutting corporate taxes is like the opposite of revenue neutral right. Just it will cost you an immense amount of so
If you want corporate, you have to do healthcare form first, which I think is true, and some of those savings came from the medical perform so yeah, it's not like there wasn't savings to be enacted from the minute reform, so it's not like he sold trumpet build goods he seldom the goods that they had to sell em. If they're going to do all this without getting six work, getting a Democrats to vote for it in the cellar, but by definition I think any republican lawmakers going to be tricking trumped in in the sense that they're gonna get going Come up with with bills, the trump is not going to really understand or bothered reed and say it's good its if so Trump doesn't know we really what's in it, and and and what's it stay here, he I guess, sort of being wilfully tricked right. What did you say? He went to this meeting and he said to the freedom, cockers, ok, look, let's I'm not interested in the little ass dash dash d, let's talk about the big picture. Well, ok,. So there are at least ten people in that room
or obsessed with the little ass dash dash D, like that's what people care about. It's like when you say You know I have this and I can't get it because of a care, and I need that fix. That's the little S, that's the little detail The trump is an interesting always interested in is the win. Well, that's offensive to them. You know, it's like the. What have they been doing here for seven years, fighting this or six years or whenever fighting it without you now without without focusing on the details, so he doesn't care about. Details and that's fine as long as you know, as long as long as it works it doesn't if it doesn't work, it's not fight if he loses its about fine and, of course the other problem no pointed out is now there burnt neither burned nether afraid now, it's like we're, not gonna touch this like we, we got burned rocket to do it again, while they're not gonna, know set on Friday is like
it's not like Obama cares. Gonna go away like the deaths spiral is going to continue the people opting out of the mandate, the younger people opting out of the mandate and pay the fine orbital dairy, risking, not paying the fine compared to the number of people who are going on at every every month? And you know insurance companies pulling out at every everything. That's going on the tenant sellers, see aren t resolution their voting couple taxes and alarming right. So So it's gonna go on like this and then you know, and then in fact you know ten or fifteen states. The exchanges may collapse this year. That's just by the way, not that the interesting and all this is that We're talking about a relatively small number of people who are in the Obama CARE system, as we think of it. You know it's still. Ninety percent of Americans get their healthcare through their employer, so some like that, so warm or through knife or through Medicare, you know they employer Medicare,
and the questions there are entirely different. That's where the regulatory framework, As everybody else up, because the insurance companies keep having to increase their premiums because Obama kid because the American the Asia. Imposes all sorts of responsibilities and obligations on the day them, impose on everybody in the country. Not just you know, everybody who was in private insurance and isn't in the oven. The care state does, as an irritating piece of reporters and activists reporters to buy what you just said, all jack of neutrality to jump over the GEO pay. When the thing fell apart, was that of the twenty four million people's insurance has been set as though they think that these twenty four million people are all getting kicked off. Their insurance, ignoring the c b overboard their quoting which says a lot of these people are leaving these insurance rules because they, to spend their money more efficiently,
the most important thing, is like the twenty four million was simply the number right where people who are leaving that, unlike some of them, would lose their insurance costs is too expensive, but tens of millions of those people were leaving because they had the freedom to do so by the other great thing that that the people were making that that argument also the other argument, the maid was when they thought the bill was going to pay. There are all these pieces. No, the dead spiral is not real right now we're going to wait. It's going to be interesting to check back in on them over the course of the year or the next day or whenever. Yeah. I wasn't there spiralling really was all that you. Suddenly you had pieces after pieces of premiums expanding twenty two percent hike this year. The exchanges are falling apart, the collapse or die This these many counties don't have any ensure whatsoever to many people, a Medicaid the programmes going by and then all send this bill was introduced in a bomb care by solid solvent is
interesting. You know that you are our friend Jem ruminant. Why formerly of common turn out the washing post said that the lesson of a lot of this terms of healthcare? The freedom hawkers everything else is that there is much less appetite them republican and very conservative, Republicans think for which she called minimalist federal government, and I think that point is worth reflecting on a little bit. That is that when you are the yen to someone's Yang or the Yang Toolbar,
as yet and what he wants. The relentless concept of expansion, the federal government- and you are there to say no- the government is too big and spend too much. That is one thing. The complicated part now is that there is no Obama there. There is no counterweight, and if your line is that the government is too big and spend too much when you have a presidency who that is actually try going to try, I believe, unless it totally slips these bonds because of changes in political reality is gonna. Try to live with in some sense of you know, not expanding government very much, and then you keep saying no. The question who are you, who are you representing people, want didn't want thought Obama was making the government too big, but did they think they do they?
affirmatively, wanted much much smaller, that's not clear out. That is really not clear, and I wish it were. I wish we lived in a different country with different oh values about resiliency else self actual was a all that, but it could just be that you know this this. This idea that can just say no to the to the two anything having to do with changing the trajectory. You know what your fingerprints on it. That's, that's, not gonna be workable.
It could be the b. The argument is changing. You know I'm going from big government small government too. I want a different set of criteria that that that would then trigger big government. I want a different set of goodies than than the ones for giving currently yak, as the argument is that that repeated pragmatism is in a whatever the public wants is what the public wants and pragmatically in a cab to craft legislation to that can pass with public subordinate the public wants us, that's what they're gonna get what we, the ology, is basically the opposite of pragmatism. It forces you to do things that you think are good choices for the public, whether the public wants it or not. That the fact of the matter is that this bill was pragmatic. It was designed to abandon a lot of it. He ology
order did create conditions that would make it with goods pass the Senate. It would get President's approval. You wouldn't needed to have any pitched strategy. It was the essence of pragmatism and pragmatism failed. Would it have done better? Had it been unworthy, illogically, appealing bill for conservatives, it's possible, I just don't it could and did make any effort to that effect, but I don't think it could have been because of this reconciliation demand that everything in the bill had to have a budgetary consequent we're talking about pragmatism. Profit rather strategy, know what I'm saying that it was so in that case, what you do is you don't do this bill? First, you do it eighteenth. You spend. You have hearings for six months, you craft a bill that every single republic, given the country supports because they all of hearing the House has hearing Senate, has hearings, put things together and then you put a build together than you dare Democrats to dislike.
It was in a logical, coherent. I mean what you could say as its they had killed the mandate it had a lot of medicate perform, in other words, empowering the states to control their own spending, rather than the first in this build you could have there was that much that was it he illogically coherent. I mean what you could say as its: it killed the mandate, I've had a lot of medicate perform, in other words, empowering the states to control their own spending, rather than the federal government imposing spending controls on the states. Various other things right so, but you know coming up with a with a one sentence: sound bite to describe the bill. That would have been a pleasing. The other way they only pleasingly would have been to say we have we have now we are report, we are repealing Obama CARE and we are in the process.
Some replacing it it was. I think, the heart horrific mistake to say that this was all gonna be done in tandem, which was all part of a giant pundit fight in the fall. Well, you can't just repeal, because in your little leave all these people expose you have to repeal and replace at the same time. Well, you can't repeal and replace. At the same time I mean In some sense, the two actions are entirely separate. You know the repeal moves all of the controls of Obamacare over the health care system, and then the report, Ace would be the imposition of no controls over the healthcare system that are more rational, less statist, whatever. All of that, the idea that you could do them at the same time as like you know is doing a hard transplant at a brain transplant. At the same time like you could do, should do what you have to let the body recover a little bit before you do the other. Otherwise, it's gonna die on the table.
Whether there is such a thing as a brain, has further ways out baby brain was not the Bregenz Lung. I dunno liver just into job. I particularly alert Jen ruins point about the the waning support for which called minimalist government governance. All this all the things that dead, staunch tromp supporters, wanted and and really worn to during the campaign. They were not screaming the governments to be, there were screaming, I'm getting screwed and I'm screwed in ways that the ratification of which would actually would require a federal involvement. You know, keep you gotta, keep them keep the Mexicans out. That requires more governance. The government. You gotta keep the Muslims out. That requires more government and you You then you gotta go round to corporations and lean on them and and and and introduce punitive tax measures to keep. My
jobs here. That also requires more government right and the building of the wall and the billion, whereas twenty billion dollars around fifty billion dollars on an idea that is going to cost twenty billion dollars to build twelve hundred thirteen hundred foot wall with you. No high tech, like that's ridiculous, like it customers twenty billion dollars to build two builded three mile subway line in New York City like its lack of ill. Way more than their saying. But anyway, yes, oh there's, all that he said was offset with Mexico The Mexicans paper that's right there with them, but the money from their repatriation, but again Trump told Robert Draper. This week we are Times magazine out today on magazine that you know he wants to prime the pump meaning he wants to use government spending to help get the country out of its rather than by the way world.
A time not to get like totally in the weeds here, but if he goes to some serve, you know infrastructure thing which is like a keynesian infrastructure plan and there is like a spurt of whatever growth he's got JANET Yellin over the FED, saying if growth is faster than two percent, I'm raising interest rates, because I dont want growth to be much facile. Two percent trump, once growth of truck needs growth at it at least three percent, if not for even to meet minimally. What have were his promises and he's gotta countervailing force controlling the money supply it also. That's the other, to say nothing about the fact that we already tried this keynesian priming stimulative government spending, Bro There was great, has I work actual he's now, but he's doing right, you're right, I was that was wrong. That was wrong. That's right! We always for the truly about exactly was still yes. So anyway,
it's like again. All of these. All of these contradictions, I want to say We want to say we told you so, but you know what it. Why did you I think that a lot of us were sceptical of what are termed president It would be like you think, as we thought. He'd come in. Commanded he'd know how to do healthcare and that we would like him, because we did just like him, but we thought he could do health this is part of it. You course he can't do healthcare, like while health workers I wouldn't reaches a swamp we want and what we will also be looking at her or jobs. They are jobs are yet right. That's right is unlike unlike some people. You know we. Yes, our jobs, are very important to us. It's not fair to want to keep her job unless you're. You know. Unless somebody else anyway, so now,
we're just in this kind of weird situation, where every every the warnings that people had about about what kind of president Trump would make in terms of both leadership and and how he would manage love. You know to control. Levers a government so far, those war. And fears of ardent work. You know if anything, understated my in my view, because you know at least if you were a fascist, he would be better. As you know, have ass, a fascist doesn't have his. You know, I'm keeping all Muslims out of the country thing stopped by a judge, and then he says: ok, maybe just stops doing it like that. You know fashions just keeps on doing it and then daring and then to tell you what you gonna do about it at another thing is that you ve noticed is that from sort of appears discouraged about their immigration ban?
and you just walking away from healthcare and for somebody who supposedly built his name on being a dog at fighter for X Y, see cause he walks away from a pretty fair and fast will even the deal interim with, even if he said, bring me offer for single parent outside it he said bring me it offer for single parent I'll sign it right. Now, I'd like to see it was their offer offers on a table single pair. I am telling you that, even if they came to him with If he said bring me offer for single parent I'll sign it right now they wouldn't bring but offer their going for the juggler, They want to destroy him, they don't want. They don't want to be party to legit success, even if its unutterably Reginald they their concern right now, the liberal and democratic concern this country is is to see it too is two weeks.
For every possible route, by which trump doesn't even make it through his fourth year or two, and it was worth your Gladys that working I watched him would destroy him faster than anything we ve been doing ass, likely to get him impeached. Words data rode his important Congress now, but that doesn't mean you glued. That does mean you get a peach day. They are going that their their hierarchy of needs. Is this one He should be impeached or forced to resign. Somehow number two He you die, I am so much that in twenty year, where he so unsuccessful than twenty atm, you win the house back and maybe Murali Dick to the Senate M twenty twenty. Certainly he doesn't get a second term Therefore, the general proposition is going to be that there is not a democratic vote cast for anything that Trump wants, so he can adopt there.
And they will throw him in the garbage, can anyway, because they are not good, they were gonna, do whatever they can t give him not a single win ever, which is why they're gonna filibuster gorse such ultimately because they don't want their fingerprints on anything. So he can say local you, you were well you ve read about four worshiped. Why won't you deal with me on x? All they're gonna do is keep the government open. That's that's. My general proposition is they'll, keep the governed open and they'll past budgets, and they might confirm most of trumps nominees to the secondary offices. But they're gonna do nothing to advances agenda, so he has to stick with Republicans, but you can try. You. Have there really good they'll torture me they'll, be like you know, will be like Estella. You know a great expectations and they'll drawn closer and closer and closer in them. You know screw up.
Euro shut the door and I've just what he's like sick and love with them. That would be that it would be interesting to see he would forward very very quickly, very readily admiral at another vacant stand to to go through the charade before letting down, but yeah. It's a tough charade. Although still is pretty cold. The whole time that she's seducing Pepsi comes benefactor register Russian. There will now, though, this week, bigger the hell anyway. So, Commentary magazine, that's not even listening to our podcast Commentary Magazine Commentary magazine that com, please go, give a few reeds, and then we ask it to subscribe. Ninety. Ninety five for digital subscription and twenty nine only five gets it would all access subscription, including our beautiful monthly magazine. Your mailbox were great. Great new issue, algorithm such good stuff, and am I should tell you what it is, but I've overhead, cold and so my mind isn't working all that. Well,
a green. While the northward, I'm John outwards, keep the candle burning.
Transcript generated on 2020-02-26.