Welcome to the commentary magazine. Podcast today is September. Eighteen, twenty seventeen- I am no arrangement with me- is commentary magazine senior editor, a Greenwell high Abe. I know a jump on horses out: and the commentary magazine, podcast crew is in dire straits today, actually able because the only one in good shape. Right now, I had an absolute miserable disastrous, weaken having on Friday evening, a martini deep, I will confess making popcorn for my wife

and spilled all the boiling vegetable oil out of my other popcorn bowl and onto my foot, had to go to the hospital and have secondary burns and have a very miserable weekend, limping all over the place, which I am still doing, a horrible that the notice that he told me no tell me about it before, but now hearing it again. The worst part, is it. It sounds like you're on your way to such a lovely night. It was. It was very nice. I had a nice training. We had about twenty resume movie was gonna, be involved. There was a movie, get to see the movie right yeah. So yeah ended up in a hospital briefly and down the little bracelet and came out and the I've been putting lotion all over. What looks like in a very bad dinner, since its truth would truly have lunch leftovers. It's really quite grass if I can compete fur

material listener. Sympathy. I lost my kinda last night. Ah, that is tragic, tat, terrible terrible, more expensive than what I had to deal with yet will, if I haven't decided to replace it, but anyway, very very high and genuinely sorry to hear, but surely for different, so listeners, you can feel bad for all of us. John is escape this He is somewhere else having a good time, but we are not here to discuss. Are miseries we're here to discuss the miseries afflicting liberals in Hollywood, apparently There is no joy in in my town as evidence night by the enemies the annual event, which, according to preliminary ratings, did worse than life last year, which did worse than the year before, which had done worse than the year before. That is almost like this trend going on you had your traditional efforts by member.

The liberal establishment in entertainment, who made punching bags out of various members of the Trump administration, including the president himself. Their workers in efforts to sort of link. I guess the o o o the Stephen Colbert who's. The host of this thing, who became famous by making himself a caricature parity of rightwing top posts, that's, as is his claim to fame. He mocked the president first saying that that the popular vote actually counts here, as opposed to in the United States, and actually echoed a lot of things that were set at the the video musical wards by Katy Perry, who was an overt Hillary Clinton surrogate. So there was no originality on display, but also most

Most glaringly was a surprise appearance by former press secretary, Sean Spacer, who came out and sort of mimicked good hearted led neo, jocular mimic the care it sure of himself has played by militia Mccarthy on any alive, and this was well received As far as the audience went, the audience was laughing and applauding but the audience there was misery nor frustration at the notion that we put normalizing this guy and how appeared in the Washington Post in the politics section that need his. This is a guy who's, responsible or famous rather fur law through his teeth for an administration that is beyond the pale of all norms of society. We shouldn't be giving him some sort of

platform. He should be left to ignominy a disgrace to shuffle off into history and reside in the shadows for the rest of his life. Yes, we want to add to that the point about the joke about the view the award being voted on by by by popular vote, its non and, as you point out,. Excellent posed, and I have written on a subject as on commentary magazine that got and also like you know, these would entertainment awards tend to be served the worst kind of elite voting system. There is, I mean it woods it. So not the popular vote that that did you did. It would be almost like if politicians were to elect the president For us I mean it's: it's industry, people entirely OPEC and subject to public relations campaigns. Everyone remembers that fear over the Oscars nominating and twenty fifteen twenty sixteen nominating almost exclusively white people in the profession that there was a hash,

Oscar so white and all sudden they were nominating not so white peoples as oh, it's almost like you know. We can't really, operate whether or not this is an award for talent or in a word that subject to public pressure, weather it's a ferris presumption or not. Isn't really our fault we'll have anything to measure it against its an opaque process and, as you gettin to you're, as you get into in your post v, shows or have been used to scold Americans year in and year out about what they're doing wrong? What they're not getting about the liberal agenda and have I have to get their act together, but there are also used in in happier times to see brain liberal agenda to me. We are a far cry from remember the Michelle Obama Oscars now I remember that. Oh yes, yes, she she

avoiding azalea showed up at the end of an Oscar ceremonies at around member on screen to present an award of some sort. It's like you know, there's two modes thirds either hand, wringing or triumphal ism that's right and has no middle ground. It's always something to do with politics, and it's all about whether or not the liberal agendas in ascendancy or decline. As to the moon, out of the room and the people on the stage and yet the the main award last night was given out to who lose the Handmaids tale. Which is the streaming shall, first time ever in online streaming service which, by the way, Netflix Amazon Hulu. Doing really good work with original programming? So this is great for them, the normalizing stream. It is a new world but you know well that's good. I think that's good data show that most people don't know

According to a cats media survey which had a small sample, but it's a sample. Nonetheless, five per cent of the nation had ever watched the thing it was like. Another thirty percent had heard of it, but never watched it. Everybody else never even heard of it. Look, there's no real because it's not Billy doesn't mean you shouldn't give it and ward if it deserves it, that's not a good criteria for giving an award to something popular, but nevertheless it indication of how insular our world is because every in politics noses it's been the of something that has been a symbol of the quotas. Unquote: resistance for a long time, to the extent that even going back to Katy Perry, Adobe the sheep trotted out with a with a visa as in her hand, I'm not a costume rather than the Handmaids tail costume enhancing. I was gonna come out in this thing, and you no joke around with you is being mean that this is done. This is the New America. The new America's for people who don't know the Hamleys Tail story is, it is opposed. Apocalypse

Vision of America and which is essentially a theocratic world, where women are turned into baby factories near oppressed and enslaved. Right, yes, oh it's, this progressive, feminist vehicle among, among other things, right because the analogy is that today, women are oppressed and turned into baby factories, Raul evidence to the contrary, notwithstanding right, good God forbid, they focus on the actual oppression of women. In countries overseas, Donald Germany, ITALY, Ruth Theocratic, that's right! That's right! So. I had some thoughts about this whole issue, about not the effort not to normalize trump and he's ministration and its policies, and one thing that struck me is: what do liberals think conservatives do? What is it? What do you think it's over to some is has been fundamentally about for decades? What is standing afford? History, yelling stop is essentially conservative, saying

don't normalize these things that we see as offensive endangers and crazy, whether these are public raise war or growth and govern and or sort of general dissolution in in civic culture. Whatever its we're saying what we see. We see things coming from the Andrews into the mainstream, that's normalization and and stop now. That's that's perfectly fantastic, the two to say, because workers were can't work were confronted by Democrats who are suddenly discovering all these precedents that were set in the Obama era that they didn't think at the time were precedents, and even today don't see as precedence because they fundamentally agreed with what they were saying. You know that

Two thousand nine, for example, that the spruce always strikes me as the two thousand and nine Barack Obama administration effort to sideline Fox NEWS, get the notion out there that Fox NEWS was not a news entity to restrict its access and to get other members of the press to come out in against Fox NEWS. As a news outlets was a precedent, it's not something the Bush mentioned you never did it's not something the Clinton administration. Then no news organization was ever targeted and TB deal legitimized by a White House before that, and then you have Donald Trump. Taking a step further and people go well. This is outrageous. No one ever done this before will yet that's how precedence work for no one's ever done it before yet. The same is true for all a bomb is executive orders and and and the the sweeping nature of them in the big policy decisions involved. They were perfectly fine better than fine. They were, they were just and wonderful under a bomb, but under

the traveller distortion of democracy. Yet there was another effort on the part of the administration to the last administration to sort of shape than is by creating the news by get into the news business in extent it was Josh artists, Regional round up of weak basically had a blog where he would site news reports and bloggers who were saying nice things about the ran deal, for example in nice. Things about the administration is not unheard of behaviour for a press shop to save this is look at it. This is our good press, but then the Trump administration takes at a step further by flirting with its own news network, for example, that face, but that a sort of a border of effort on Facebook to have a new network. These are the sort of things that you only wake up to when it's not your side, doing it and it's it's.

High time that we had at least out Hollywood conceal loaning further in front of their faces to where these things are developing revolving and also one of the reasons, only one of the reasons that that trouble administration looks like stands out more in doing these things is because it's not embraced by the popular culture, the way Obama's impressions were so so everything was automatically quote normalized immediately as it happened Durant during the Obama. Yours and you know what these award shows its exactly. What rushed out the means when he talks about liberals owning the culture in a way that makes conservative Americans feel like living in occupied territory, while in that part of the block Posada today, is that it's not just the enemies that are suffering in the ratings.

The box office had its worst summer in a decade almost there when there was no labour day movie out and some a lot of theirs of one of the better reviewed years for films actually cause Thurston. Some people have been blaming run tomatoes for this situation, but it's not. There is like the third best you're in the last ten years for movie reviews and run made us. That's not it. What is it then really know yes began obviously, as the poster child, for this condition its shedding advertisers and losing people left and right. It has its own president, sending out memo saying: listen, we're not a political organization, the and no matter how much dead, spin pounds the table Everybody knows, including its own viewers, based on a survey commissioned by yes, beyond that the network, as a liberal network did

We were it's all around you that there is this apoplexy, this sense of panic on the part of members of of the media as entertainment, ample local media, who are liberal and it is perceived. I supposed to be a dereliction of responsibility not to events that sort of emotional, passionate frustration with the state of affairs. Otherwise, your implicit, your normalizing. What happened to after after trot was elected. There said the all that talk on the on the left of of humbly moment and regrouping and realising that you know, maybe maybe there people in Amerika, for whom we dont speak, and we are talking down to them, perhaps Won't you know I'm a middle this. It would be helpful if there were some responsible politician.

Who was saying that who was saying you know, maybe just obviously, but the party needs to regroup, and we probably need to shift in order to appeal to these voters again and nobody's even a great. If that's a product with their wheeler One even do but there's no there's nobody saying that they had the twenty sixteen election is over and we need to move on to the next election with a different mindset and you still have, for example, Hilary another on book, bookstore who's, not so much doing a book Torres, she is doing a blame shifting, tor and now something a little bit more dangerous shoots telling and pr today that she quote won't rule out quote questioning the legitimacy of the twenty sixteen election, based on whenever Robber Miller's to probe discovers so now it doesn't even matter what Russia broke turns up, that is in the ether the notion There is some other hope, some silver bullet that will

deliver us from the Trump administration is enough to keep the liberal fires burning to keep them from reconciling with this current administration from reckoning with their behaviour and twenty six in an effort to keep them from engaging in politics and in a car. A constructive fashion that is exactly why. Ultimately, this effort not to normalize trumpet his administration in his decisions is completely counterproductive, because if the is not to normalize him because he represents such a distortion in our politics, something something so revolting, maybe that we can't make a part of her power are out of business as usual pulse The effort to do that to not normalize him creates its own huge distortion, where you are disrupting politics, and you have be the loser of the last election out there saying

I reserve the right. I may not ultimately deem the election results legitimate that that is a is a dangerous distortion of our politics. It's completely bizarre to say that about a press secretary mean is one thing I supposed to say about a president, who is a former game show host his kind of weird to be in the White House in the first place. Get that, but Sean Baisers oppress, guy he's been oppressed. Guy forever, he was doing the his you know his press thing that the currency- and it's not necessarily always the hundred percent unvarnished truth. Yes, he was decision. Getting some nonsense which you with me in front of himself or by the way last night when he was doing the whole talking about how it's the most viewed thing ever, whenever the most viewed Mps ever, which it obviously was not, but that wasn't a sort of Marge to his really preposterous claim that the

in operation was the most well attended inauguration ever the fact that we should be freaking out about Sean's visor, saying these little white lies. You can argue about how little or they are, but it's not as though this is unique to Sean spice. Are you had the last three press? Secretaries were involved in sin, a variety of other falsehoods, Josh Earnest, Sir will. The array and deal with Ben Road said was built on nebulae eating, gullible reporters. He often repeated that most transparent administration line which had long been debunked about the Obama administration, as a second career at MSNBC, which nobody Mcbay grudges him that I dont begrudge him that everybody deserves a second life J Carney misled about the Benghazi talking points where they originated from his of three hill,

Rosen's. Third, twenty thirteen live the year about keeping your doctor and so on and so forth. These people don't get that dont normalize this treatment. Nobody remembers these. These lies there just background radiation muffin HANS by Sir- and I have a theory about those shots. Baser is getting the don't normalizing treatment anymore, because you can't do that to Donald Trump because he is being normalized now by none other than Nancy Policy in Shucks humor right everybody does. The last three months scream about fascism and creeping racism and all sorts of authoritarianism and nonsense like that they're not screaming anymore. Now that Donald Trump as a vehicle to get maybe some cap reforms out of her at the very least, to allow democratic to lend him enough roped so that it can, himself didn't. I say something like this was under way last week and both you and John said I was wrong. What that that there is a slight cooling of the hatred against

Trump. I don't remember saying me wrong. I think that I saying that that grew not hearing that because people are making and calculation that nobody really truly believes that the Democrats want on from to be successful term president, but I mean. Maybe him were we not accepting enough of this idea? Overdrive, that's possible alive, but foot down, but are you I thought I was shot down but I'll get. Why regret at night? I take it all back there. You are right, but interested we're. Not at that point Jeanne tumor understand that you cannot will away reality, there's no. You cannot do any orchestrate,

efforts to deny the normalization of a massive reality. That's under way will fare held you there's no such thing. I dont see its people going out after her and saying you know you need to stop working with this president either sincere makes perfect sense. He would see it because everybody else who has attempted in on the left has gotten that treatment, and yet Schuman policy are somehow avoiding it run run I mean book it's framed when these deals going to go deals happen it's framed as the president rolling over and getting democrats everything they want. So what would you object to run? Oh and now he's not pulling out of Paris court, but that we don't even know about that's life depends on who you talk to him all right, but that's that's, usually his style. When something does happen, the IRAN's nuclear cords is always like stated to the commercial break, to find out what happens with american foreign policy, it sits the reality, show presidency, but dad's. It's a he'll turn.

Suddenly within you, the other dates, a classic he'll turn on the audience. For those who don't know what's up W w e term for the enhanced drama of those scripted formatted of of professional wrestling in which the court unquote hero the protagonists. Turns his heel and is back on the audience and he becomes the bad guy in the storyline for awhile its way to keep them moving forward and Donald Trump is nothing if not a product of W w E, so that, as is his turn on the audience, but speaking of turns, to something a little bit more academic, we are indebted at the Commentary magazine podcast too who are advertisers, one of whom is the great courses. There has never been green versus, plus the great courses plus,

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We know you're going to enjoy the great courses plus to sign up to day with our special, U R, L to get an entire month of unlimited access to watch this in any of their lectures for free your free month. Now you will love it sign up at the great courses plus dot com, slash commentary that th e g, r e, eighty c, o? U, r s s p, L, U s dot com, Slash C, o Mme Anti a or why speaking of silver bullets that are going to deliver us from the age of Trump the, eyes are always and ever on, Robert Miller's special probe into the twenty sixteen campaign in the extent to which Russia was involved- and I was having this comment-

station just a minute ago, rubbing my temple thinking about it. It was that stressful about what would legitimately be something that Hillary Clinton could say. Ok, I'm pulling back I'm taking back my concession. This was not a legitimate election. Our system needs to be thrown into the into the trash and we're going to ignited dumpster fire to the extent that we might even have some sort of a given armed conflict over the realisation of the twenty sixth campaign. What would those circumstances be and, to the extent that I could think of one They would be lateral, legitimate vote, tampering of a substantial scale that had to be demonstrable beyond a shadow of a doubt and to the tune of millions of votes and not just by Russia, would have to be by the Trump camp

Yeah, I'm not even sure, if that's necessary, I think I would just go if, with Russia cassettes, foreign foreign tampering to add to it, a significant extent, but even then it would be incumbent on the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton particular to say. Well, listen! This isn't a horrible attack on our democracy, but what's done is done- and you know I'm not going to take this back and possibly send this into some sort of a dark age, but that was not acceptable to to the Democrats with whom I was engaging. Hope you get on twitter. But for them even the extent to which Russia can be proved to have engaged in propaganda is six significant enough to work. War at the invitation of the results of twenty. Sixteen in that strikes me as ideologically consistent for Democrats who don't genuinely believe an agency at all. You are the product of your environment. You are easily manipulable and, as such, you know your

prices are not your own it to the extent we can prove that your choices were even influenced by this or the other force. You are solved from responsibility for those choices. Progressives not Democrats that's why I suppose it's a progressive ethos, but I would just say liberal, because it's not exactly one, that's exclusive to the far far left of the Democratic Party. I think that's probably a pretty mainstreaming idea in the Democratic Party that you were environment. Creates conditions whereby you know you become a product of it. I mean the truth is I think many of them would jump at something far less menacing. If it did it all for the opportune to deal generalise, yeah now and I'm trying to putting would have if they can serve, get behind the police and stay I'm saying that as a sort of thinking

that are coming from and in good faith, not that they're saying: ok, I'm looking at anything that can possibly invalidate the election that this is a good faith position, and I think it is a good faith position on the part of Democrats. You don't believe that you have the capacity to make decisions that are responsible. They do, but I really don't think they think most people do run run. That was I mean that the fake news campaign was, it was all about that there was this sort of like the a bunch of poor Robes were were treated to these fake news campaigns and, and they didn't, they couldn't tell the truth from from lies and they fell for they got duped and that's what happened. Yet. There is very much that so, if you can and that in a pretty much every intelligence agencies on the record saying that did happen, there was a concerted Kremlin led campaign, create a winter propagandistic outlets and news stories that would disseminate a Kremlin proposition which inevitably advanced tunnel trumps political prospects, but

It was a little. I think I was probably overblown the extent to which that was a real factor in twenty six. Election, but even if that was a minimal factor. This is the kid this is the position of people like. What's his name, DOW, whose former Clinton surrogate behind the there were, Peter doubts alone, I'm dossier. Of course he was always championing Hilary rights. Yes, yes This logic is, if even one vote knows, influenced by it on fake news website, the one for Doktor Russia has influenced the election and therefore Well, I mean also that whole argument was was nullified because, like the deplorable comment the fake news charge. So immediately embraced by the trumps ahead right. And and used to castigate all them all

yet he didn't like and so successfully did they overtake that that narrative yeah? That's a good point. Actually, their religious own that and take it back became in a way that John Spicy tried to take back his caricature run an as being resisted. The said, sir. You know yet another weapon. They can afford to make an interesting piece, the extent to which were public concern. Taking back these. These charges like within that the new cycle that yet hacking pack, these really really I'll, be charges from Democrats. Let me that Sir one of the few things trump his excellent tat, Cerulia comes Nina lack of shame. You can do just about it. That's that's right. You can turn him turnaround, anything speaking of this Russia, council probed. There is some news here and it's extremely weird. I think guess this happened over the weekend Abe even following this very closely, and I have yet to get up. We can do look. I saw in my day care centres so be guilty stakes. Is that that what it is guilty

prime him some see something like what we were bad state chain. Yet so we it. Yes, we don't have Zack name at the stake change, but we have the basic details of this was an outdoor table, the door table at last. She steak and your times reporter can Voebel was seated next to two attorneys Fur Donald Trumps, Donald Trump, whose defending himself and against this Russia Pro Ty, Cobb and John doubt not bad at three twenty five John Tiger, but the attorney telecom and they apparently had a very loud conversation about some rather sensitive information. Involving the investigation and involving the President, the United States, within your shot of a reporter there very convenient they were dead in aiding their positions very clearly, you know so that the did the rapporteur could repeat together the EU be disagreement, so

Ty Cobb was saying that look. We should give the problem everything they want as soon as possible because they find nothing nothing no wrong doing here, and the administration can be done with it. Twitch Dowds response was well, but that would set a precedent that would sort of weak in executive prerogative going forward. Now I think, ultimately, this is a massive pr. Women massive is no so much residence and will have, but on balance, this is only good for the administration, because the argument over It is not about what Trump might have done wrong. That could be found out. What have to hide. It was all of it was all about. Look, we know were were in the clear. The question is: how do we about showing that, what's the most effective and responsible way to show that we are in the clear.

Yeah another exchange summarised by the New York Times reporters over her. This was. In relation to White House Council Don began. This was Mr Cobb was heard. Talking about a White House lawyer, He deemed a Mcgann spy and said Mister Mcgann had quote a couple documents locked in a safe that he seemed to suggest he wanted access He also talk later on one of these guys at the table talk later on about how their word leaks, involving an effort to push Jared Kirshner out of the White House. So these are things obviously that obviously most likely that they wanted in the press. Managed to find a way to get them in the press without really having their fingerprints on, even though it looks like a really really slap, he attempt to do that. Otherwise,

I mean the alternative. Is that their they're, just so ridiculous, at their having lunch in the middle of the day in Washington, DC, surrounded by people and talking about the most sensitive subject in America, I mean to me: it's crapshoot. I don't really know who wanted, because this is once again with this administration, anyone was involved with them will include, including what has his lawyers, who knows who knows what's planned? Who knows? What's just a mats? Well, I mean attacking, began the White House counsel and then alerting the probe here to the existence of some documents that these the president's attorneys are not getting access to I would suggest that there are not very happy with the White House counsel and they, like the president, to know about it. If, again, this is a concerted effort to do something intentional, please. I suppose we really don't don't know but

That's gonna, just like more fuel under the fire of Democrats who are unable to come to terms with the fact that the present is the president and is going to be the prison for at least four years, and I and I think that would probably actually frustrate the Democrats who are committed to this idea that they should Nina there in this handmaidens tail era. One of the weird dynamics of the Trump era for people who are in media like us is that Wind Donald Trump became the president. That very few people expected to happen is that we all experienced a big boost in traffic and ratings in interest and generally in what we did, because nobody renewed sense of urgency in having to know what was going on in your country. All the sudden things went running on autopilot anymore. You actually had to be engaged in civics to make sure the ship didn't think. I feel, like that's waning a little bit,

but it certainly hasn't translated necessarily into the longevity that we seem from political media into political entertainment, media. There's a big category of political entertainment media though we were just talking about earlier that didn't it. It certainly hasn't jet rent benefited from the same amount of interest. That straight up political media has. That's interesting. What do you say that? Let me do you know that I make is over there just to go there and there is a lot of parity shows and things of that nature about Trump and liberal. Liberal news. Media is doing great right. Super get right, but the liberal parody shows your daily shows. For example, we buy the ways is suffering from an indifferent personality at the top of the food chain, as opposed to

John Stewart, but get generally I've seen that the political just by nature of the numbers we were just talking about the political, the interest in semi political media sort of shallow entertainment, political media. That does that this does seem too have weaned a little bit. I think I mean I'm not sure I can quantify it. What it could be true- and if it's true it may have something to do with the fact that their turf is not so clearly defined. Now, because you have the straight media sort of doing that a bit you know they're, there there's their sort of treating trump. The way John Stewart might have not entirely, but but the its will, the larger now so you're saying that we should get into covering sports and handing out awards to our fellow columnists and thereby take over their beats end.

Like square the circle would not leave me out of the sports porpita. Ok, I can do this board for either, but we are getting into the sort of the words business. I guess sort of in a way it's not much of an award, but it is, but it is a great honour. It is in hot. We are hosting the annual commentary magazine roast on November seventh, in New York City. The target of this year's festivities subject: target independent victim of you like them tempest

is national review editor and all around the died Jonah Goldberg. If you want to get tickets to commentaries roast, there is a special raffle going on in the link to enter this raffle is commentary magazine, Dotcom, slash roast. You can also by think buy tickets, even apparatus tickets they outside their tax, deductible, with the exception of the meal things or tax deductible. It's a wonderful time presenters include John obviously, Brett Bear Weekly Standard Stephen, I hate Asia Rob LAW rob long, measures are of a show that jellyfish shall run on its common James Kevin Janshah and he's also Johns Podcast, glop podcast budding eight years so that's a very good time and it's it's

gonna be a really wonderful evening and I recommend you come and the tickets are available, so you should go ahead and do that. In the meantime, that is it for a very wounded commentary. Podcast. We're short a member on short of foot aid is doing quite well for himself so sent him. You know why in the interim four April, in order to keep the kennel burning.