The first COMMENTARY podcast of the week finds us—me, Abe Greenwald, and Noah Rothman—wondering at the grandiose plans of Steve Bannon after the White House. A new news channel! War in the Republican party! Etc! All this leads into speculation about 2020, because why not, and why Joe Biden might be the guy to challenge Trump. And then we descend into more crushing morosity as we contemplate whether our divisions nationally are just too large to heal. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Some regions oh, Welcome to the commentary magazine podcast, I am John Pub words. The editor, of commentary. Today is Monday August, twenty first, twenty seventeen the day of the big eclipse. I want to make is, in the seventy two euro, monthly of intellectual property, political analysis and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective, join us. A commentary magazine that com, where we get a few free reads than ask you to subscribe. Ninety. Ninety five for digital subscript,
twenty men only five for an all access subscription, including our beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times a year. We just shipped out are of timber issue, replete with glory, one of the best issues were published, subscribe, you'll get and you can live online and more to come We, as always a green walled, our senior editor high Abe Hygiene and nor Rossman, or associate at our high Noah John C Let's see we have the three bees ride. We gotta Bannon look at Barcelona. We got Boston as we decided so Steve, Bannon out as chief strategy, the White House, ah horrific terrorist attack in Barcelona, followed up by a second terrorist attack in beach resort about sixty miles away
and, of course, in Boston. There was another all right, Nazi rally that was basically overrun and swamped by protesters numbering about twenty thousand times the number of the actual rally ears and some anti far violent, left where's, throwing bottles of urine, cops and twenty seven arrests of same none of these is connected, except for the general atmosphere of planetary, instability, that they can note that will be followed him a couple of hours from when I'm talking by by the sun blotting out the with the moon blotting out the sun, which I assume will have no larger consequences, but it does seem too,
be a metaphor for the time that were were living through. So what we want. We start with Bannon, since he has been a lingering preoccupation of of of everybody on the planet for seven and a half months, but I think its increasingly coming to the point where people are acknowledging and realizing that his departure is probably essentially meaningless. Now birdie come out on me in terms of policy in terms of the good working order of the Trump White House that fish rots from the head and then, if there's a working order problem at the White House, it's Abandoned its trump guy suppose I have a brief monologue in me on this one The ban and wing of the parties largely to blame for quite a bit of early Trump president's presidencies, stumbles
We had just about every initiative that was embarrassing for the Trump administration emerged from this populist nationalist wing of the party, the many of which were stopped in the courts and the site specifically attempt at a travel ban that cited individuals who had visas to enter the United States stopped at the courts. The effort to target sanctuary city is kind of a broad republican position. There was consensus. Republican position was implemented, sloppily and also stopped in the court's temporarily, at the very least, but nonetheless, something Humiliating the effort to use american steel to build a keystone pipeline, which was always going to be a fantasy, because there is nowhere near enough American made steel to do such a project, but it sounded really good in the executive order, and that was subsequently rescinded. Bannon was who is involved in these fights in the White House, but it didn't really similar, he was doing very well at winning them
This culminated in a really bizarre interview with the american prospect in which he did what looked, me to be an effort to derail the present strategy with dealing with North Korea, he said that the north korean crisis is generally intractable. We are deterred. We will not be mounting any preventive strikes taking that option. The table while simultaneously telling this leftwing interviewer with you'd never had a relationship but knew he was a friendly to the interest. Organize labour that It is not really helping us in the North Korea situation and that our diplomatic thought with them In order to resolve this North Korea situation is a distraction from his grand see no american trade war that he hoped to reignite. So he was quote helping Donald Trump by really undermining everything, the bread it and have done so so Abe, but have here is
a grandiose vision of a new american political realignment that balance vote as late as that american Prospect interview last week, Tuesday, Wednesday right and how he was going to redesign american politics along this new core. Ok, this is the same person who, on under his AEGIS Stephen Miller, produced an illiterate and legally legally illiterate travel ban document. That was straw by the courts only on the basis that they prefer So that was only on the basis that, because they believe that the nineteen fifty two national security I gave the president every powers over immigration. He could write and say anything on. It would somehow supersede the first amendment and, do you know all sorts of things?
so, the question here is, the grandly osity does not appear to ever have been matched by even minimal competence. In the pursuit of these aims. He ignored makes me is, is abandoned, is often thought of had been often thought of his serve the ideas, guys the kind of what a dear inside the White House. Part of the effort to intellectual eyes, Trump ISM and all such efforts, you'd v, v, v v intellectual part- is We need less. Let's, let's at you, you can Do let's say you can come up with the serve I concept Trump ISM. What what it means in historical context and and Lincoln back to two too, the older movements and end and what not, what's the point, what why won't you you have you have to isn't it it's it's already there. It's like you, you you go in
you order a hamburger and you have a hamburger. You don't eat the theory of the hammer. Well, now, ok, so we have this totally accidental presidency. They didn't expect aware on trumped, didn't expect to win. He you laid out all of these disparate ideas. Ride we're going to pull out of Afghanistan. Iraq was a disaster, we're going to knock the hell out of ISIS. We were going to bring I was back the United States. We are going to launch a trade war against China. We're gonna do this or that you can make everybody's dreams come true and he gets elected and, of course, there's no workable pride and we spend a lot of infrastructure and it was repealing, replace Obama care and then he gets elected and he's thrown out all what these lines are, many of which are contradictory. That answer add up to anything and the question What do you emphasise and what do you? What do you not? And so in the end as his classically the case with people, I don't know what the hell they're doing. They serve emphasised everything at the same time, so they did that
travel ban, just as they were, forced to repeal and replace Obamacare, just as they were supposed to do this with that and that the other thing, and so there was no, of organization. There was no sense of command. There is no sense if they knew what on earth. They were doing and what your left with is the grandiose city without any. Competency in your on the last podcast. They basically ended by ranting and raving in saying the ban and was an idiot while okay, so in all of these pieces. On Friday and Saturday abandons departure. He's saying people say he's gonna be so much more effective on the outside, I mean really. He gets on the outside, then he'll have bright Barton and then he'll really be wildly effective yeah, because being the senior strategists at the White House is worse than run percent website with, like twelve give third rate. You know it logical, morons laying out nonsense, hit peace, nonsense like it's not play
to get a nasty piece about you and bright Bart. Because then you get a lot of email and people tweeting you and it's really nasty, and you know what the effect is. It has no effect on the subject and object several, if he's its of no meaning or consequence whatsoever, it does mean no harm now, maybe they can do harm to republican rational candidates. By you know, by fostering disapproval in their districts and if they have a tea party candidate to their right may be bright. Barking. Give them aidance occur in this. Is this exactly sort of thing that actual politician get worried about him with good reason them bright boy did kind of champion. Dave brat ran against Eric canter and be them in a primary, and thus you know knocked off. The warehouse it was a totally different environment and we have a counter example in Alabama, where the tea party, candidate, endorsed by the likes of Lord Ingram, Chung, Hannity and Mark Levin, came in third place
It's right, although arguably two a m, even crazier, lunatic than the crazy arithmetic did not really are not crazy. Luna court have you right? Only the tea party got no use for a time. He wasn't trotting architecture by. They also wasn't that favourably disposed to tromp either. Now that was the whole campaign was about who is more pro trump, but I had the bright bird what and it happened with a bright birthing which were seem at all levels, especially good, just quickly. First, the point which, as you know, I want a blog posts this weekend, in which I said, if bright bright, but could be the equal of Picasso ingenious, but Picasso went to art school for a lotta years before he became Picasso, riper and a website for five years and a was supposedly the bags we ban and was the supposedly the co chairmen are like running the Trump campaign for three months before it was gonna we make all of american politics. Will american politics is a complicated business? You know it's too,
the checks and balances of its structured and there's the two hundred and forty years of tradition, crust, tradition that makes it hard to turn the ship around and all that, and if you don't what the hell you're doing all a grandiose schemes are as nothing it's like. Somebody saying, as I also said in this boy posted like Trump, would never higher project manager to build a hotel of his who would only made buildings out of Lego, like here those if you make a building, you need to know how to order steel, how to like pay off attained. Stir have now had a deal when somebody who is like selling your copper. You know typing to some. You know up shop for extra money and how to make sure the poor things run on time instead. So he gives the White House over too bandit who's ever done. Anything right previous who had never even worked in politics, have worked at the Aral Sea, knew nothing about the executive branch, and you know
Jim Sheridan Vodka, who are who who the hell are they in Kelleam Conway? Who was a consultant. So that's how you run a railroad, so bad and is now out banning, can run bright, barred and may be healed, embarrass people and maybe won't, but this this fantasy that you were going to change the nature of the american people relationship to their government. Assertion is what joins the Trump Trump thinks that words are actions, and he sees no difference between saying I'm the I have made the economy the greatest thing ever. Actually having economy that grows faster than two point: six percent. As long as he says it, it's true and you will convey enough idiots that its truth is, I don't pay me attention and sufficient for him, and so in the end they won't get anything done because they don't know that
because the he'll like hard work to get things to make things happen. So that's the end of my round about bribery Pemberton now. What we saw today is just essential. It adds the day I'm helping by hurting thing with its it's an effort to support Donald Trump by criticising his pivot on Afghanistan, which we expect later today, too, was too from abandoning the prospect that we should just get out immediately, withdraw totally but contractors take over to accusing a charming master of being behind the quorum. The many sides quote this is this them helping their helping, sounds a lot of criticism, but their helping by trying to force Donald Trump to get back to being the Donald Trump that they know and love.
That relationship is going to continue be more more antagonistic in so far as this administration is run by military brass. Well, I mean one harsh attack on Jared. That Trump doesn't like and somebody Prince out for him, and then he tweet something negative by bright barred. We'll see, however, I ever seen Donald from over the mattresses for Jared, I'm saying something very profound here if deeply profound. Ok, we go back to the godfather where we go at all times too our wisdom, you don't take sides against the family. You know attack the family, you don't do anything about the family and of bright bar if ban and things that he has free rein to go. Open season on he on trumped up water and son in law, the parents of his grandchildren, who speak Chinese one
we will level bright, Bart, level us it will. Let the timetable level CNN, but could it we'll bright part. You better could level bright. Bart values as right part is out of my favour, but that's what they did. I mean I don't they seem to believe that They are. I mean this was bans M O. This was what kept him in the administration holding a gun to the president's. Had that saying he was the key to the base now he's going to have to exercise that threat that he was the the link between Donald Trump and his order national base and it was entirely transactional and now it's gonna be transactional, or I don't know if it's their means, that simple or anything Ben I don't think Ben would want to go after Jared by name, because I think he knows it's not. I don't think he's looking to be at war with the president from the outside, and I think I think he
his fantasy, involves steering steering the presidency from the outside. He wants out is only once that he wants to take on the Fox NEWS Channel the whole point: is it he's a grandiose person who has yet proved that he's anything more than a third rate and when proves that he's more than third rate and is a really formidable person, as opposed to a guy who managed to talk. Billy Marin to giving a lot of money then will then will see whether he I mean if I came to you running commentary magazine this website, knowledge, Niver COM and your posts needed this later. That night was like I'm going to remake american politics. You look like you're easy. Now granted we have way less traffic than bright part, but you know commentaries older and it's this in its that, but you know you can make you can be. You can have megalomaniacal fantasy he's no matter where it start. The question is how many people buy into them.
And ban in these exit, your views and his friends talking all that sounds like a lunatic. I'm sorry- and I you know- I don't know I've. Never. Madame Andrew was a friend of mine. You, nobody, Where are they ran away? And I never, madam? I am no know very little about em. Exe When I read in what I've heard it- and you know I'm still waiting, yes, Sean Connery said in his last movie. I am still waiting to be impressed. I mean well to to drive a lot of traffic there. Where there are these websites, they drove a lot of the blaze used to have sixty million hits a month or I J R Review had enormous traffic in the collars have enormous trafficking. Iced. I fail to see that site. It's that have a lot of traffic, including Gawker and all I have enormous amounts of cultural or political purchase because their worth. And we can say this ourselves like we have. If we don't, we can read some of what we have for free
If you sell something for free, it's worth what you pay for it, there's no there's no deep personal engagement in a product that people, Stumble on took as they click to it from Facebook I mean its views can have purchase it's the things that it propagandist, proper and as for, can like get purchase, but it will not have purchase. Bright parts fame. A lot of it is due to the left not to the right. It's the F effort to find an explanation to explain and listen for a second, it's an for to find an explanation for how these things happen. Well, it's gotta be bright, but you don't to coax the coax. They did it. They had a meeting in spent all this money in the coax are responsible for it. You know you, a brand, something as the great villain and the branding of bright Bart by the right. By the left has been of immense value too bright Bart, but whether or not bright
itself has influence as it as a promoter of anything is very much an open question. I think you're a year putting more value on the website, then the personalities personalities have value and purchase people like steel ban and as a personnel, because he's radio show just like Billig Kurt shilling riper personnel, who has a radio show. I nowadays that purchase personalities will have long last has no cultural purchase among that is their readers and listeners. Ok, banning no Ban and has no cultural per purchase. I simply does that. Do you know what banning of website? Yes, I do. Ok, you ve, listened to banning re abandons radio show. Do you know abandons voice sounds like Abe. Not I've never listened demand. Radio look at. How do you know what abandons what you heard about? You met him. Ok, but you so you, madam ok, but I'm Only you
I am telling you as a pop culture. Maven ban in himself has cultural purchase as an object of contemplation. He did not give a lot of interviews. He was not on sixty minutes. It was not on this. It was not and that it was our. He wasn't six events for five minutes, but I'm just saying like he is not He is not famous, except as a as a champion thing. And his fame is now. Entirely dependent on what he will do going forward and if he thinks that, because he has Mercer money behind him? He's going to run the world that is delusional. That's not the way it works. You know he's talking about like starting a tv network or of new channel, like get over yourself. You know rush limbo. Is twenty five twenty million listeners a week like when you when you get when you, when you get to an eighth eight
as far as he does- and I don't know that Limbaugh has a much cultural purchase anymore for that, for that is something I do think that will happen now, as I think the bright Bart wool lurch yet further into real ugliness the of the sort that happen before trope actually gotten the office, because now I'll be abandoned, doesn't have to worry about, as is his his. You know, you don't have to worry about I am being in the White House now and banning loves the role of of the dark guy, he's the he's, the sort of forced for evil he sat persona he's gonna have do you know, so it is also the he was being spoiler inside the administration I was gonna have to sort of act out at bright board with its and that that will make things ugly mood will serve ramp up. Just generally of the rest of the question is: who at whom will the ugliness Ba? That's all I'm saying if it's,
the republican congressional candidates and he's what's the party in the light of these places in outbursts, you know, incumbents might have actual serious democratic challenges. You could see the bright bird effect being unless he does this in places that are you know, districts where Trump one by twenty bribery could do could contribute to the democratic over the house. If he's not careful, if you play that game, I mean, I don't know, you know some sense spend out the scenario, which is that you have a republican candidate, conventional incumbent and it's a district that you email Trump one by six percent and a tea party here or a trump bides runs against the Republic Amman Ban and champions I raised my forehead hits the rubble
ten thousand times and there is a creditable democratic challenges, so thee, so either the this. This anti incumbent I will again wins, and this too extreme for the district or the end. Incumbent report again loses but softens and so trashes the incumbent. Public and among the Republican Bay, is that some of the Republican based stays home and the Democrats weeks through and wins. That's that's the scenario for the division. Well, it's going to be an interesting is prolonged experiment in his thesis about about these days political and media battles with you know, he thinks that the more overtly obnoxious and Transgresseth and unapologetically offensive. You are
the more your enemy is undone by Mordred sort of you can't can't see past thereon outrage and therefore tripped over themselves speaking which so I had dinner last night with an old friend and we were discussing twenty twenty and the Democrats and tromp in all this. And, as you know, I have been a an advocate serve Choky advocate for you now to for a year and a half of the notion that opera has to be the candidate right. Oprah has to be the Canada Scott, the money she got the tv present Scottish is a woman she's black social. She can get women cheating at black people and you know she's world famous, and he it and he'll be scared of her, because she has exactly the kind of fame that he respects and Cray and fears? Okay, so then
I took a turn- and I was thinking about the Biden thing right, so thinking about Biden granted by will be seventy six years, older, semi, seven years old and then two thousand, if he runs a trump and then were discussing how
Democrats what often happens in these situations if there is kind of like a revolutionary candidate or something like that, the impulse in the counterpart will be to want to nominate his opposite number, not somebody like him, but somebody totally distinct and opposite from him in the sense that he's got experience these. This is exactly what we want to use them as an object, lesson against, but think about Biden for a minute. Now I think I am very harsh on Biden, I'm not a fan of binds, I think, he's a ridiculous person in many ways, and I've been in men very small rooms of him where he showed himself to be a total bladder, blabber mouth who couldn't stop talking. Unlike me, where I am obviously sharing the microphone time here so wonderfully with you, two guys, but Biden versus Trump has an interest in quality. Be
as trumps game of course, is to be incredibly nasty right. What we saw Biden with Paul Ryan and twenty twelve, you think Biden can't get insanely nasty right back at Trump and their round the same age, and he will be like don't you mouth offered me you rich boy, loser you now, don't you know, come at me, like you know, when you were out gallivanting with women who were not your wife, I was taking a train home every night to be with my kids, when my wife was building a car accident but you do when you are an actual person, not a monkey Alice like you, you creep in alike, have like how is tat going to respond if he gets trumped by somebody else, and if it's one of these guys, like George Chicken Loop, further Debra democratic Governor of Colorado with such great record, and he so good is Syria but I'll. Take it down. That's not gonna work need somebody who is
live gonna drop and end the one trumps head like Trump does, I think, Ireland is the only one who could do it if he's healthy. If he's got enough energy. If we all of that will trouble brand him is something something jail. I don't know what he will link him to a bomb right and all the and in any will repeat every complaint, every charge against an inviolable calling. Vladimir, I mean that's my point. Like imagine Trump and twenty fifteen at the first debate right would he starts yelling tab and JEB turns I'm and says you know I don't have a job says. Really I mean what about the mafia? Also, the ito we'll have a defence did the mob did dozens? I just you know what ever done with your life, except expose yourself on telling you know like they all we're, so shocked and appalled and they were like they didn't know what to do what they were like. I'm not gonna grace. This would respond to the moon,
so all that, so they got their lunch eaten by a guy. Who had no manners and no propriety and all that Bat and and that's who Biden was and twenty twelve to Ryanair. Just like mocked Ryan. For a solid hour and a half in the vice presidential, obeyed and and took Ryan down an interesting point, because the last election tromp was the only one who was so wildly transgressing the norms Nils will now What, when it's four years later, there's no mistaken mental, mistaking what the rules are and what the new game is? No one's gonna be shining Democrats are gonna want. They think that Burma may be, could do it or Elizabeth Warrant could do it, but they can't do it. They can't do it. I mean you know, Biden stands earns his look. I was vice president for eight years. Everybody. Brighton can do the miss me yet thing by the way. If you were saying he'll be tied to Obama, you think that's going to be bad in twenty twenty, it's hard to say it's hard
that was What got Trump over Hilary Hilary was hurt herself the object because of the emails and because of the crookedness and because a bill and the women and all that it wasn't Obama trumps, wave Obama he didn't like Obamacare. He didn't attack Obama, wilder waxing fantastic about twenty twenty. Why why? Why not? Every it's all have the chairs of outlook and senators today will not go on record endorsing his nomination Susan Colonies and Bob Worker, whose just sort of passing on the conversation we had a conversation in this office on Thursday in the wake of Donald Trump putting out yet another tweed about how and apocryphal story about how an American General General Pershing was responsible for war crimes against Muslims, and that was his response to the ongoing violence in Barcelona. We said: how can this gone, how
continue for another three and a half years. How can we sustain ourselves in this outrage? How can Republicans go on every other day defending this guy, while their agenda collapses? from our how about how long can Democrats go? How is the fight gonna, be when a republic he's going to attack trump when a rope, begins when to turn away from Trump, when this when The outrage can express itself. I mean even the outrage about the lack of outrage has a burn out effect right. I mean that where we go with the I dont think where I think we have reached the burn out effect for people who are predisposed to support Donald Trump right period, and I think that's where we're going to get out on the gout rage effect will ever
will ever sees for people as long as we keep pushing the apple of what we ve been pushing and people who are honestly not engaged with this presidency have not invested in some costs into this presidency will continue to be outraged. Ok, so we should go, on and discuss this after after a brief intermission to discuss our friends at the great courses plus because, as you know, Abe because you are a great courses plus champion are viewer- are testify air with so many historical moments happening right now. It's important to know the details of how we got here at one way we can Terry doing that is by watching the gray courses plus we find it so satisfying to learn from these trusted. Engaging experts like getting to sit on the most fascinating university courses for enjoyment all on our own schedules and there's unlimited access to thousands of fastening video lectures from politics, economics, even photography or cooking and man could, I use one
cooking right now, because I tried to make sure cookies this weekend and it was a disaster and I was using incredibly simple recipe and they came out like garbage. So maybe I need a great courses plus I'm cooking. We we recommend watching turning Point two modern history and aid as a viewer of the turning point in modern history course. This unique the directive on world history from the discoveries, inventions and ideas that have shaped the world. What what have you learned? A green wall? well, I would these second lecture was about the fall of Constantinople in fourteen fifty three among the many. A serious things I learned is the fact that a an eclipse also heralded, that event it was. It was a lunar eclipse, but there I was. I was surprised to learn that no two fastening turning point history and it was the sort of official. Thousand year after the fact
final mail in me in the coffin of Rome and chrome is dominating political right. Yes, military, illegal, military for round and and and also as an idea to because it left a sort of not only it actual power vacuum, but this sort of competition war. Who would inherit this who would be next in the line of succession of Empire Right and that's that was a sort of race that that you can even see and elements of things like russian foreign policy. Up to this day is conceivable fell, of course, to go well. Well, today, to the to the turtles, the right of return rang and that made Moscow. The third room, that's right right and ran, and they and Moscow and aspired to M actually go back after Constantinople number occasions, but particularly under Catherine was one of the strike strike
the things. If you go there, if you go to stumble now and you visit huh Sophia, which is the one of the great buildings of the world, this mosque. That is the source smells like the Colosseum, it's like the other dominating building and in the end in the city, and it was a urge was a church and when conceivable fell it with became the Bin next to it, because the greatest piece of we serve it with it. The it's the symbol of the take over of Rome by run by Islam or brother of this great church than that the greatest church built in the world next to note, madam and and the Vatican, and is now
mosque. So that is fascinating and you can watch that and thousands of other courses by screen streaming gray courses plus from your smartphone tablet, laptop tv or download videos to watch offline great for travelling. We want you to check out the great was today you'll love their offering our listeners a full month of free video lectures when you sign up using our special. U R, l the great courses plus dot com, slashed commentary, star. The three month now sign up the great courses plus dotcom, Slash commentary, that's and it's all one word: the great courses plus dotcom, slash cometary. We thank them for sponsoring the commentary podcast so Noah in the in this year we can't go on and the whether or not the trump forces the forces arrayed as supporters of tromp have reached the point which they are no longer reachable. Let's say to give up on the sky right to say it: that's what you're saying like you, we ve had the moment,
which there's a lot of diminishing returns. If they're not gonna turn because of last week, they're not gonna. Turn right, yeah go what you're saying correct: ok, so What we have, then, is the fact of the matter that there is a political war going on the United States and so Trump summons trouble on himself right, because he does. He says from all sides of this a dozen denounce Nazis enough need. Operates not from the alright. Nevertheless, we criticise last week and tens of millions of republican voters what this and they say it's all. Not at all, all their just trying to get em. We're trying to get him. However, they can get em. He said he didn't like violence on all sides. What's wrong with saying that on many sides, what's wrong with that and I'm not
I'm not given in. I you, you know what the you can say that anyone that issue honest. That's too, that's too on something tens of millions of people die in the window them unless what themselves they will find an actual legit. Will. They said like he said he was against violence on many sides and I see like their day, have anti five and they have someone. Throwing urine bottles of Boston, policemen and blah blah blah. Ok, but I'm saying is that in so let's say they are not, then they wouldn't have met to themselves that this is a rationalization We live in short, is rationalization, so because it is liberals are ganging up on Trump in an effort to get him out and we're not going to contribute to this effort here he's fine with us he's fighting for issues that we believe in there oh, a bunch of commies who are true
undermine this country? You know and undermine the efforts to make the country gray again and we are not giving in to them. They can say anything they want and they can go to hell yeah, I've actually say even before Charlottesville. I have had discussions with trumpet who said to me some of that I've never heard any other supporters of any other politician or candidate ever say, which is I don't care what he said. I don't care what he did. I support him. Ok, it doesn't matter. I support him back. It has its it's. Their support is absolutely disconnected from what he does or set, and why is that? Because of his enemies? Right I mean, I think, that Rostov it had a brilliant column last week in which he pointed something out that I've never seen kind of crystallized in this way, which, as we have this insane division, the United States right Republicans control the commanding heights of Politics Presidency Congress, the Senate.
Thirty four governor ships, seventy out of a hundred state legislatures a thousand seats, one of the state local level since Obama took the presidency. Political domination. So we haven't seen by one party, since the nineteen twenties writer by the Publican price, incited twenties and, on the other hand, liberal have total control of the culture, the universities, the education system, television, the movies at you know everything that counts, as culture is model ethically liberal and one has a total. Each has a total, a hardening impact on the other. It is the liberal domination of culture that helps provide the conservative domination of politics and vice versa. So a piece of your hand. They ever feel equally threatened by one rise out right angle. I think he's right above you like their undersea
Right, nobody, but about under enemy. Rule, I think, is what he said, and rightly so. If you think about better than you think, like ok, well, Surely there can be an accommodation? Will there can't be an accommodation right, because what television network is gonna put on? You know what will they studio is gonna make movies that reflect the Trump worldview. What movie so is gonna we make the run Howard Movie Gung, HO about how you know. American factory shows that it can make goods better than the Japanese or what? I don't know I'm in trains or think of what would count. You know as a sort of trumpets and cultural products even, though, could make a lot of money. Even though could be us, even though it could be that even though american sniper showed, if you get the right, if you get a right, you can make seven hundred million dollars offer thirty million dollar, but they don't want to make it they did that to them. That would be poison. That would that would do
Roy everything that they want to be right. So, even though all they want to do is make money and thought. Okay, so and in political terms, John Joseph coming into Georgia to try to win. That seed guarantees the publicans when the seat, because they're not gonna get. They are not going to give this physical object lesson in Obama person right this kind of like kitty thirty year old, wise ass jewish kid, you know carpetbagger. There are getting give him the time of day they he almost one, but I mean You know what I'm saying like the fact that its him and not You know some girl, Billina Pickup truck, that's not really district. You take my point like goods? Not really him and you didn't really live in the district and they're not going to get. They are still in the end against live.
Rule cultural values which are about. You know coming american jingoism and whatever how we want to lay out and so there is no answer to this. There is no getting out of the cycle. That would be the but lousy Emily. I think the sort of em. So that's, I think what they mean when they say I support him. I don't care what he says because they're not supporting him there supporting here the representation of the of the fact that they are not going to let the country get taken over by those people right right. It's and they were it was taken over by those people and they for two years and what do they do? They spent two and a half trillion dollars and they passed on I'm a care and they passed harp too, and they passed Dodd Frank and they NASH. As the auto industries, and this is the great desert Roddam of Libya
and this is exactly what concern what what people's work normally broadly consider conservatives hailed, despite what you're describing as remarkably shallow support, it seems unassailable with me are really the foundation It has nothing to do with the man entirely transactional the minute he stops representing these things or appears veiled in representing these things is the minute. The support looks like the reach, the point of diminishing returns, and we have Republicans who were going to be forced every day. Now in the next three years. Presuming they retain their political potency to cotton. Impeachment everyday. It's never gonna stop so today this is gonna. Had this faith is going to have to be reaffirmed and these Borders are going to have to be satisfied that their supporters is being no relish. Then, and there getting return on their investment amber we're going,
who does every week, maybe there's not a shall you was all, but maybe not showered all. Maybe this is the deepest kind of support, maybe the idea that all he is all that stands between us and total self and total destruction, very strong and very Napoleon. Imagine we're talking about anything beyond a very tiny sliver of Donald Trump Base of support, which is itself a tiny lower. The Americans I don't think so, because I've I've I've spoken to people that you, member minutes purely anecdotal, but I'm I'm I've spoken to New York. Trump supporters who have said things these lines, and I mean the scary thing is how do these people come back into the fold of sort of regular good faith politics after this. What point you start saying I don't care what he says As I am. I just want to move away from from the other side: that's That's an emotional pole. I mean there's always this. Does this line right that
The conservatives think that Dell liberals are wrong and liberals think conservatives are evil, but conservatives who now think liberals are evil, and that's the sort of motive Asian and that's it's hard to corral people on both sides of that back into discussing policy and and plain a planet people being wrong as opposed to being evil. I mean we're through the looking glass we're not going back where this thought be a restoration of some kind of common order here, we're bit and something new is being built around us that we can even begin in I really to visualize. That is a that is a system in which the route feeling of the american voter on or the brutality of the most passionate american voter, let's say is distrust Grey so the route democratic, the Sanders voter ride centres enough
eighty five percent of the vote, the Democratic Party and the Trump voter Trump got forty five percent ruling party. Their root feeling is distrust and mistrust of democratic institutions, of politicians, of events of of mediating institutions, and all of that, how is that trust can be rebuilt? That is that's not that's. That's some! That's two separate parts of America. That's a great many people that tens and tens of seventy eighty million people who have who have left the priest, some which they believe that all things being equal Americans led a decent life in part because or can lead a decent life in part, because we have built institutions and political. We have a political system that. Compared to others, gives you more freedom of movement,
mobility and speech and thought, and all of that and other places in that you use them to the best of your ability, as was the notion that you're being screwed and each of them The different idea about whose screwing you balance fantasy is that you could put them together, but you can't because, though Bannon wing of the right thinks that it's the left, that screwing them and it's the Sanders, people think it's the right that screwing them and how you then say: well, we can all make common cause against the middle. Jason, who they think a screwing them. I don't think you can put this gene Can the bottle I mean we're gonna do for the rest of our lives in relation to politics, but you can't you can't sort of, like trust, is good have to be earned again right, but if the, but, if you're, but if your default position is distrust, Someone says something and you think that they might be led. The first thing you think is that they're lying. I think a lot of this is generational them
well. That's bad, then, because of its generational, it's the it's, the it's the it's the younger generation now really Bert, Bernie supporter isn't young the Trump supporters and young then it's not generational. If I'm right that they are motivated by front if they come from the same kind of routes with widely different villain, then it then it than by definition is not yet. I can imagine that the the this generation of young socialists is gonna, be socialist for the rest, their life, unlike the other generations, socialists using you can imagine that they will now re will grow. Like they always do run. Every grows up becomes a homeowner that's a very I love your optimism. I salute your passion. I think that today Steam guys was the revenge, the baby boomers, no offense This would have was not. That was not a generation election that was the grievances
of one baby boom generation versus the grievances of another baby boomers generation. As you wrote, but effectively Sinatra generation verses, diverse vertically let em right right. Well, except. I still think you look at the the Bernie supporters and you save you're. Looking at the future of the Democratic Party you're, not looking at that Laurie, baby boomers you're, looking at the Sanders rate think about this again Sanders raised two hundred and seventy million dollars and hard money. That's that's famous twenty seven dollar donation right, two hundred and seventy million dollars he raised. He ways the sea raise more than Hilary that more money. How is that possible? However? Have we don't know we don't know what that's gonna meet? We don't know if it has any, a one off. If to presume it's not really are probably not a one off because ass, I was able to raise what
for thirty melody millions, urban warehouse district in and also the matter, the bustling about lost boomers didn't hates Anders boom. Rumours liberal boomers that thought he was great and important, ok now, what's not have a mess up Hilary Channel with them, and then they got bad at right as it was like this thing. We're Santorum! If you remember twenty twelve like remember, it's like Santorum get out of the race already all you're doing is hurting Romney. You know It was true, he was hurting. You know, learn landed by the message. Here they weren't offended by the message, except to the extent that it was like old one, wait: another white guy trying to get the woman. You know like that that that that whole line, but I don't know I'm just saying. I wonder if we go to a larger point, so this voice of that you you well disposed last week, I'm surprised to hear you kind of disagreeing with your own premise about the about the listening to the Trump voter.
You started this by talking about how they ve had it not they're, not gonna they're, not leaving him right this week, prove I don't know what the number is like. A christian solstice Anderson puts the number twenty five percent, that there is a twenty five percent at will literally, if Trump shot someone on Fifth avenue. That would be fine with them and then some people think it's him like maybe we'll, maybe we're senior right now, maybe it's thirty five percent. Maybe it's not twenty five percent. But what am I disagree with myself on cause? He you're, saying that the support is some thin. And I'm saying I don't think that's thin. I mean it's thin like he. She could use fifty percent. The thirty would be better off with fifty percent me I in so far as I know that that twenty five, rather than leave galley enough is scary enough to majority of Republicans that they're not gonna turn on him robbing it. When I am again Republican elected a fish, I'm talking about republican rank and file were
A instinct here is that quite a bit of that is rationalization, which is a lie to yourself and then eventually, you ve, come face to face with your own lie. Now it's gonna be really hard. You may never publicly admit it, but it's it's something: telling yourself. Ok, you remember your lives from the big chill right. I nursed rational. Rashleigh, they don't knock. Rationalizations are more important than sex because did you ever go week without rationalization rather like three rash, like one of the great sooner the great lives, Jeff Gold, bloom in the big child sleep, it's one of the enduring lines were pretty factors I think it is generally a weak force, but it's like gravity. If there's enough of it, it becomes something that's value and you know I mean I don't know. Maybe it's true, maybe everybody, because because TAT was the ten thousand thing everybody even on the right, when excessively, but maybe I went excessively ballistic, maybe it's like. Of course you didn't mean like the Nazis, you know, but it's like Well, you can't just go
go on, go on, go on, go and then expect on the ninety seventh time. You say something stupid! offensive that we're not gonna, say ok enough already, like I die tat, I understand you and there may be a breaking point of me. If you have report, we have republican politicians who are very uncomfortable with this guy and we ve got we're getting that there's quite a bit of pressure on him from exogenous sources that will be building in aren't going away. There is an investigation to this guy's family that could bear fruit right I wouldn't I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is that the dynamic that's gonna persist by the way. By the way, there is no salvation. This is the one thing that I find a little odd. So if you take that argument right, the mauler Mahler is it gets is gonna squeeze trump world, so tight that trample resigned to save his family. We can save US family. That way,
dollars, squeezing his family and his like on the let you know it's not like he by quitting the indictments and everything like that that the theoretical trouble, we'll go away, though, still get indicted. The better staying in the presidency and just pardoning everybody, you know and then like facing the music for that that he would be bike, like quitting, doesn't get you out of the buying binding in this. This train if there is a bind, this train as Dino going down a track see. I think that the shift we're talking about and politics actually goes beyond trumpet and will therefore outlive him seen in this effort, everyone wanting to tar their political enemy with the very worst among them. So they did effort on the left is too is to paint all
serves as Nazi alright Nazis and an effort on the right is to paint the into all all liberals as and violent anti far right- and this has become a very important and dishonest practice. Both sides. Now this is the edit. It did it's a short of apart from Trump and then, of course, the bizarre phenomenon on the left of the refusal to separate themselves from anti far I mean that the astonishing thing. So there are people in Boston throwing you're on cops. There were twenty seven arrests, you know we we we saw a video of the hall. A ball nasty things happening in the streets and have you people like your grasping at straws- that's not true, and you can get your just your gear, blah blah blah blah right. All of that, and on the right. Of course, a lot of us were like a we better look deep into our souls, because there you know they're they're, all
right, necks and nazis, demonstrating they come from somewhere and we're not gonna separate ourselves. We can. We separate ourselves, but you know something's going on here, but you're not allowed to say that on the let like in the left. That's like this incredibly unfair sites on Jensen and It is similarly unfair to say that we are the end. We are the all right, but get that's that's that's where we are. I think it's a little weird her to get into the other problem, for the right is that when you, when you when you fall for the notion? That being, conservative means that you have to be an out and open supporter of statue. Very dedicated to the sacrifices of people who tried to destroy the United States in the eighteen sixties. That's where I draw the line like
I'm not going to stand here and say that all statue should be torn down all that, but you can't them also move me into. I do think, like the passes enduring You dont race at all that, but I'm not gonna stand here and defend conservative stagger confederate statuary like that's ridiculous, I'm building. I gave him yeah right in Arizona, that's right. So But, similarly, I think liberals need to be incredibly careful eye. I only saw just a debt to refine the point a little bit. I mean what we say. What we saw in Durham with the tearing down of a statue of by a and outraged mob of young avowed. Socialists was legit, They tear a fine and what we ve seen in Baltimore as a result, a little but not about also lays diameter to a monument to Christopher Columbus was two hundred years old. That kind of behavior is absolutely repulsive and legitimately terrifying,
you're afraid of the pace of change already. Ok see! This is interesting to me. The Columbia statue maybe weakens close on this. Are the Columbus statue right the idea that the evil of The United States begins with the ship of Christopher Columbus right, so this is now when women We hit the 500th anniversary of one thousand four hundred and ninety two and one thousand nine hundred and ninety two. That was when all this started you're my there's nothing to celebrate of Columbus Columbus Keynes Tenures your time. I know you since Gusty he came in. He brought brought syphilis and killed. Half the population of the sub continent and and and NEO Colonialism and he didn't discover America. There were people living in the American. That's ridiculous and Columbus is not a hero, he was a symbol of colonization and blah blah blah blah.
Was one of the earliest moment at which you started seeing this turn and american education over the twenty years of or thirty years of anti colonial leftism com taking over the universities that it had started to bear we'll fruit in the larger popular culture that data that the move of Europe to the Americas was viewed as as a bad and not a good, and if we come twenty five years after that, literally twenty five years after that, too, we go from destroying confederate statuary because the because people are outraged by God and they take it into their own hands to destroy confederate statuary, because the confederacy was knows was was a was a force for but destructiveness an evil, you then take it to Columbus. Then you are getting at the root of the american experiment, two hundred
three hundred years before the american experiment even began and Donald Trump says during these reviled press conferences, many of which should be that link. Look out. They're coming for Washington, they're coming Fur Jefferson, because there is no limiting principle on this idea that if you were a slaveholder in the Anti Bellum south that you should be wiped from histories. Reverend seated can be in a museum, but not in the public square and guess what does is treated like a NEO confederate talking point. This has been the case. Is that liberals have been advocating since two thousand and fifteen at least an earlier in the week of the Charleston shooting. We haven't really serious significant debates about whether or not we should have things named for Lee and Jefferson and the Jackson Jefferson Dinner started being raised from democratic history. I mean this is something that isn't bizarre. You have cable whose contributors this week saying that these things need to happen. So it's not as though people are making this up from supporters. Do
a grievance there right. Well, that's my point! So there we get back to the question of whether or not the cultural, whether or not the cultural dominance of the left is the reason the trouble not fall below. You know. Thirty, five percent support in the United States because we have a total, Matter Anti matter reaction, counter reaction system going here and they overplay their hand every two. If not, that there is a they here, there's no liberal dominant thing. It's that this is the root of let left. Liberalism is the idea that there is a disease that America is at the root of diseased country and that it you know it. It was born not only in original sin like everything else, but the original sin defines it and that the original sin you know it's not like. There's a war between the good and bad parts in the original
something that we're still. You know in Lincoln Secondment terms that we're still suffering from right, but but that, but that is what defines us and if you don't believe that it's gonna be very hard to accept the left liberal attack on Trump. I don't mean, like our attack on Trump right, our attack, Europe is his unseemly and disgusting. You should be able to say that a Nazi isn't Marty and that people who say that you know the white race is being destroyed. Our disk are, you know, are basically disgusting and an like that. I mean the notion that you go: from a but we'd stop there and say you should also learn something about your baby seas and go to school and learn. Hissed
All of that and there just saying destroy history, because history, american history, is bad and should all be destroyed. So I'm gonna be MR optimistic and because I dont know of this kind. If this is a permanent feature of our existence, I'm reading Bruce Bowers Victim Revolution. And he died- defines how this really started, with an intellectual trend in the nineteen seventies and a variety of others who were Marxists, Myanmar, unashamed Marxist and that's where this new version of american history comes from, and it's become this sort of vogue, social justice intersection reality and that sort of thing which has taken over the academic world unfiltered into culture only in the last couple of years, as this phenomenon has matured. It's not as though this is a really like a firm and feature of american politics. It's maybe thirty, five years old, it's reaching let late stage decay because it is dumping that itself down as it as it becomes a commercial power
locked and we right now. We have a real revival of frustration with an fear of totalitarian socialist regimes being led by the left to the left, is attacking North Korea and Venezuela in places that are otherwise. There would be a minimal to support and why the ears with North Korea, they wouldn't with a mammal sporting alors. Quite let them our advisory forum for North Korea, for russian yours thing. It's late stage, decay, I'm saying it's only just getting started. That's the question like two decades, two generations of
domination of these ideas at the highest education level. Filters down to education, schools, filters down to high schools and grammar schools filters down into the way everything is taught filters down into the way everything is viewed and we end up with a perspective on the world and life that people are bathed, then without even knowing it and that's partially, where the ignorance of history comes out and the ignorance of the surface of the complex lessons of history comes in and the fact that nobody knows anything. Nobody reads anything in the only book they ever site is Harry Potter good that they read Hereupon the arrows fantastic. I love him in the middle of the first reading by FIFA to my son and he seven years old and I hope that he reads more books than Harry Potter, but from what I can tell on twitter there at all any liberal, all anti liberal ever has ever read is Harry Potter, because everything is analogies to Harry Potter. Yet- and I agree, I think this is the beginning of the institutionalization of this stuff and I always think about not the beginning. I think it's good that's matured knob, but but it's
It's gone there all ten years. Here. Here's will that's what that's my all tat. There will be nothing, but that's what I was saying, because I was think about our blooms, but it was in the closing Merrick Mine, which is what the eighty thirty years ago, right almost thirty years ago. He was writing primarily about the students. They are and how the Tenos professors right that that that they'll purchase theirs. I maybe ten percent of them are the tenure professors. The rest of them went off to write for blogs nowhere, I hadn't, although they have all done down the product in order to make a commercially there, everybody else, and now we're obsessing over faces on dollar bills and statuary, and everything that is right, resembles politics, but is not in fact actual politics. That's the decay,
That's right, I don't wanna. There was a lot of nonsense in the nineteen seven these in the ninety navies culturally and it's not as though any of it slowed down. The total take over of the culture by the left like it was. It was as ridiculous, then, as it is now in different ways. Different stress points, indifferent, stressors, and you know an end and the same thing we're like sensible people on the left or like well. This is what this is about. This is ridiculous. I mean all this stuff is totally ridiculous and after two or three years by into it, because it becomes the dominating be well, you can't amuses. So when someone says you're triggering me, am I gonna meet trickery I'm so sorry the utmost, while I've seen this thing where, like Boomer, liberals get kind of radicalized by their college kids. Now, though, we have long argued pushes them further, gets them back in touch with an exam. Debates there there youthful left it look door.
I was once is optimistic as you, because I was younger them and I didn't want But I I just another you could look at the present moment and and think that there are grounds for optimism. You can think that there are grounds that they'll be assertive, sensible or prudent Riu structure things other things don't like literally fall off into into another? We don't live in a sewer, for the rest of our existences and our political system completely collapses, but You know, I've been worried, are fundamentally on serious time and we are unserious people in and on serious time when in actual existential disaster happens, as it inevitably will a sober up. There will be a better time, but it'll be a more sober time. The problem, being family and serious is the damn. You can have an existential disaster and people won't sober up, respond to it. Like unserious, silly stupid people. Tromp faces an existential disaster. Do you really think that he'll sober up and become a become? You know, Harry
Now I do hope that the paradigm shift it by the time the existential Gaster happens. I mean people turn into something else. You know if you know, if you somebody said to me this week we were in and serious people and nine eleven we roast meat, Thea Rosalie the threatened them we and then we ran away from the threat them at the minute hoardings got hot anyway. So with that the crushing veracity returns? The comment I cast uniting their one energy. There are a lot of energy and enthusiasm in our crushing button, but know it to be fair to know is not crushingly rose but will well we'll get up there will be. I think so
Thanks for joining us, remoulded harassment, John upon words,.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-13.