Painting over a mural of George Washington? Canceling a sneaker with a Betsy Ross flag on it? Is behavior like this going to keep Trump in the White House? Give a listen to today's podcast.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine podcast today is Monday July. Twenty I can twenty nineteen I'm John path towards the editor of Commentary magazine, thus seventy five year old monthly of intellectual analysis, political probity in cultural criticism from a conservative perspective, as ever we invite you to join us Commentary magazine, dot com, where we give you a few free, reeds and and ask you to subscribe. Ninety ninety five for a digital subscription Twenty my Mammy five for an all access subscription, including our beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times here with me, as always senior editor, a green wild, hello, a Green Walt hello
I'm putting and associate editor no Rossman high. Now I John and in Washington senior writer Christine Rosen, hello, Christine Hygiene. So we could talk about the heat wicked talk about the upcoming Mahler testimony. We could talk about the continuing american puzzlement over how to commemorate the appeal eleven moonlighting, but looking at various numbers, including trumps, rising, Paul numbers and some other interesting numbers in the democratic race, We decided we would throw all that aside and simply add posit the following question, which we have been circling around for months. Witches are the Democrat so crazy that they are going to hand the twenty twenty election to tromp on a silver platter.
This was really occasioned in my mind by the story. The came out and of last week were that San Francisco Education Department, apparently the city of services, who has its own education, hormonal baggage, like New York, does too voted unanimously to paint over. They seem to love doing this in San Francisco. To pay. Over a mural of George Washington and asked why they would paint over a bureau of George Washington in a school in San Francisco, the educate commissioner of San Francisco said this is reparations quota. Unquote, And I was watching the bitter really several hundred thousand dollars to paint owed to painted over or the euro itself does not the hope.
Write me a lot of it. Was there had done a previous mural which had depicted something rather anyway? Ok,. So I thought to myself if I were Brad par scale, the campaign manager of term twenty twenty and I had to plan and and in a blue, territory that I could use Forbes. Sixteen months is a cudgel to beat Democrats within to remind Trump voters what what why they should vote for Trump in twenty twenty. I could not have constructed a better thing than painting over in your old George Washington. This could not happen. Nothing could be better and a for the Democrat. Doing this Democrats. Liberal left are doing this unilaterally all over the country twice a week and we thought maybe we would go through both in policy terms and in cultural terms, some of the things that they have done. This leave a pr ape watch
So this is not just bout, inspiring trump voters to vote. I think this is the kind of stuff that just gets Americans, who don't even particularly care by Trump to say this is crazy, I didn't realize how crazy this, why right? But precisely but here's what I mean by the Trump voter, in other words, Trump needs a hundred percent turnout. He needs everybody who voted form in twenty sixteen to vote form where they voted for right. That's If he can do that, and the Democrats can't rally and voters in the famous three states that one whom the presidency he will win the presidency again by exactly the same number of electoral vote now, if he can, pull swing, voters over his side, that's gravy, and you know if you can do that in sufficient numbers, that's where he stood challenging Democrats in states that they won, but that he was killed. Sin like Minnesota and Iowa and new. So
either way you slice it right it if it had electoral value for Trump, and you know when, when it's an individual thing, you know swift boats or whatever Willie Whore something like that. Then the media mob can a mass and say even though those those both worked for applicants, but can mass and say this is unfair, you're being unjust. Your tagging Democrats with you now you're caricature in everything like that. It's gonna be very hard to make the argument that the cultural on on multi cultural grounds present ISM grounds. You know anti past grounds talk about America being a racist country grounds. All that this is- oh prevalent in so widespread and so on? over the country and so much the topic of the democratic path. Mary season
That's a very hard to make the case that that this is an unfair caricature, those being drawn of Democrats, although make it, though, I'll make it they'll say: you're you're, focusing on this nonsense like, for example, No, I don't. I did actually well a caress agrees with the world press agrees with that. Take, for example, in one or more Ilan Omar has become the focus of a lot of republican iron. The president has taken enough for due course, obviously issues very close to being attacked by her own caucus for her frequent, anti semitic comments and they did. They ve been pulling this issue and she has a very low favorability rating, but she is more more Voters are aware of her, among Republicans, then are among Democrats, and that is evidence in the mind of people who want to make the case this is just not picking that the only reason why anybody is ok, gotta notifying units is win, use to make a case of political,
argument or otherwise based on most fringy is developments of whatever PLUTO coalition, your attacking so you're, not picking. Somebody does representative that political coalition you're picking nuts, hence not picking the only reason why anybody is talking about on Mars because boxes talking about it and the only recently thoughts is talking about it- is if they want to make an issue out of it to hurt Democrats, it's not as though she is representative of the coalition of plug Democrats of which you represent, but that is the argument that will be made and that they are as yet, because it was a fox that put ill Hano MAR Algeria cause you Cortez and wishes to lay on the cover of rolling stone with Nancy Policy. Republicans, just obsessed with their obsessed with them. But it's yet, but you know it's not like it's, not like Alzheimer your cousin grotesque, hasn't been on the cold, bear, show five times since November. I mean this idea
Brian Stelter of CNN also promulgated this weekend that you know wheels on Alexandria, Ocasio Cortez has been mention three times as often on Fox news. As on CNN and Emerson BC. That's all Alan Good Fox, the idea that Fox is making Alexandria causing Cortez a superstar as opposed to the release of the Netflix, ten million dollars to release and documentary about her run for the Congress and the discrepancy. There is an indictment of people who don't cover her fairly, because the reason why she mentioned so often on Fox, because she makes a lot of dumb comments and fox them, and nobody else does not just dumb comments, but but the comrades in arms. Our very radical. You know, and then it's not fox that is causing the internal warfare between Nancy Policy and the squad. That's between Nancy Policy in this, not fox that is making
or ass, rainbow. It's making o Cassio Cortez as chief of staff, call other democratic, racist or that is that's they're doing any So, but you went to allow no more I'm saying let is a general proposition outside even outside the frame of internal democratic warfare, which is a different kind of gift. Trump he's the advancement of the cultural view of the cultural left going to get trump. We don't know what I mean. If Trump is elected in November, twenty twenty I've been saying is got around run the economy got that maybe I'm wrong Maybe this is all wrong. Maybe everything you did last week was right, because the Democrats are crazy. They have gone crazy day that they may hate the idea. That Trump says that the squad hates America,
but a party and a movement that endorses a worldview that says that until three seconds ago, everything that this country did was evil is is no different from pure old fashioned, naked anti Americanism, and they also it's also completely a historical because if, if progressives in particular when a play that historical game, they are also losers in that game because it doesn't it, it takes him basic knowledge of american history and a a brief study of the progressive movement in this country to unearth a great deal of stuff that they would not want to be identified. With now racism, sexism classes em all the stuff that they rail against cancer. As for they themselves were guilt? as a movement over the past century. So I think that its if
one want to attack. You know the past actions in that way. That's fine, but then they are fair game as well and as we see them, the media plays along when its attacking Republicans or right, leaning, individuals for that, but doesn't play along when D. When its turn in the other direct right, so just to get into the present ism. The flaw present as of in this in this regard, we Christine you're, alluding to or things like, the. U Genesis, background of plant parenthood and Margaret Sanger who who promoted family planning, contraception and abortion. As a means of controlling minority populations and eliminating them to some degree like that was, it was frank, eugenics ism I was just looking up. Interestingly enough, text, is Christina Friday right for reason. I can't I have went down one of these get a rabbit calls on the internet, and I was right
but Charlotte Perkins Gilman, who wrote what is, I think, now considered the foundational feminist text of America. Literature of short story called the yellow wallpaper, which is about a woman essentially going through what appears to be post, partum depression, who is basically so oppressed by her husband and the culture that she lives in that she ends up going completely psychotic and believing that there are figures in her wallpaper that are controlling. This is an important I think it's taught in schools concentrates or horror story. You know story, but someone going crazy and all its facets of it is actually very powerful piece of writing. As she wrote nothing else of any real ma. Meant her land, that memorable Annexes Minnesota, damned Toby model which I haven't read. So I shouldn't spaces written nothing moment. I apologise for that but so I was then reading up on her on the internet, and it turns out she was a
among the most foul racists evil have of her. Heard of she? Let us all of the political movement are party to extirpate the urine presidencies in the United States, which meant Africa, Americans
former slaves. Anyone who was not you know a white, anglo Saxon Protestant and she was at the same time a kind of programme was a classic progressive feminist, and this was a totally common thing in the world of of Progressive ISM, as it was formed in the United States at the beginning of the twentieth century Daniel occurrence book. The golden gate, which is about immigration, is as all about how the famous nineteen twenty four immigration act, that is celebrated by immigration restrictions now for allowing for the great pause when American, where America condemn kind of them deal with its giant immigrant population over the course of two generations and assimilated, and all that that the logic behind the immigration ACT of twenty four was you was.
Social Darwinism, eugenic assist racism that that we're. The arguments that were promulgated in And by the way humbly was job. Belburg lays out meticulous detail in his book liberal fascism that Woodrow Wilson, the sort of the most important progressive, whoever lived was a classic scientific racist believed that blacks were inferior mentally physically. You out did not want them to attend so that's the present ism stuff right, and so they want to go with us, for you know a man can patriot out for the constitution being the most forward, thinking generic document ever written by men who themselves were not yet ready to take on mantle of the views that they held zags
to them, as my grandmother could say, because you know we will come at them with guns blazing Billina stuff. But to what extent do you think going forward revelations about Martin Luther King massage any ruins him for the left? That's a tough air there, that's a toughie. Firstly, all that that article that you're, referring to published in the british magazine standpoint wasn't stamp. Where was it the other one, What are we gonna? Women point was either standpoint or the other the other anyway. I David May I care member was called by David. Guerrero right was David girl who wrote the peace that it's ok anyway, so This is a bits and pieces of documents that got released ten years, thirty, eight years early, that twin,
twenty seven, his files are gonna, be open for everybody to see but he's the only one who seeing them and of the general proposition is that kings b a personal behaviour is sacrosanct and you're, not just not going to touch. It but when everyone can see it and when the when the, when the entirety of the FBI file and all that comes out in the wiretaps, and all that, I don't know But ok, everybody, a republic Yet I appear and Republic its Pounce Republicans patent Sun King material, but ok, so that's! The present is himself that's a general overview problem that represents an opportunity for Trump and and and the conservatives to expose democratic hypocrisy. But now it's just talk about the things that Democrats and the left are doing to me
Trumps life. Incredibly easy! So no is sitting here with a posted with the bats. Seventy things on the big posted model, little posted at what I think you should do, is just read them off without going into detail. Madam, I mean some of them, the hallways Yosemite. You need a little bit of detail. Yes, others pretty much divided this into two categories So I say, policy halting or so no is gonna do policy and Christine is gonna. Do call anchors culture sort of begets policy. Some of these blue,
it into one another, a little bit, but just focusing strictly onshore on policy. We can begin with the green new deal, which has become a focus of the house and includes things like revamping every building in the country to be energy, efficient, remaking, the economy in the name, in the words of a Aussies chief of staff, they federal jobs, guarantee a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage free States College a prohibition and employer sponsored health insurance, modeled along the Veterans Affairs Department, a minimum universal basic income, the gig decriminalization, of migration at the border and the deconstruction of border barriers reparations for ancestors of african american slaves,
bussing which could be policy, but no one seems to want to get there yet, but they may convince themselves to remember and brace forced bog bussing speech restrictions, including the kind that the ACL you and after House Democrats for which are in their signature bill hr. One privilege scores which is now going to be part of the USA, too, used to measure your relative privilege basin, whoever you You happen to be against limiting the arrive, reducing the voting age to the age of sixteen curbing meet intake red meat restricting fraction
eliminating jobs in the form of things like Amazon's headquarters, moving to queens, which was going to be bad because those are bad jobs. The straw ban, of course, reinstituted title nine abuses on college campuses, which means limiting people preventing people from having access to their fifth and sixth amendment rights and, in a certain extent, people like Stacy Abrams, who say that she has been denied the the governorship as a result of a variety of policies which are designed to to restrict voting access for Africa
Americans, but which a lot of the country actually supports. Seventy percent tax rate top tax rate I didn't get into tax rises, not sure whether or not that something that would turn off the electorate because they model these things. Like the wealth. Taxation is very limited to the tough day. The upper upper tier saw not sure whether they play poorly with the electorate necessarily, even though there are completely unconstitutional and unreliable and also produce a very small pool of money that will force Democrats to eventually confront the fact that they have to tie the middle closing. However stuff we're how're. So what we have here is a series of proposals, some of them, and that no one endorses of the many of them are contradictory, and so you have some people like some of them and don't like others, but the General proposition here is the ideal that, in an effort to enshrine the liberal,
left as it RADA of policy that the government needs to be brought him to know, take its heavy hand and smash it on the on the economies of our Harris's proposals like providing certain benefits to african american home buyers and mortgage seekers, which I think awaits the fourteenth amendment. Pretty sure you don't think violence. Where did you can end the fair housing act as our land, every fair lending practices and everything else? You have the basic idea that the law in the United States is intended to Clyde, every everyone which is by the way, one of one of the. What great sins of you know. Conservative populist policymaking has been the promulgation of this idea that welfare benefits go disproportionately to African Americans and Hispanics, whereas in fact there is no.
But there's no, you know these things are colorblind and and and ethnicity, blind and and white people. By dint of the fact of being the largest we now making up what is sixty percent of the electorate or something like that get most of the benefits of of welfare. But a lot of reports guns believe otherwise and now so come on calmly Harris basically saying oh yeah, well, then only black should get loans from the government by houses, which is which is which is pretty interesting. I think so, but in policy terms this. I think these are harder for Trump to use. As the you know. This is why you're gonna get me a second term, because They're all argued they're all argue with this, but politics is about right. You make him oppose proposal the presently. There goes
go. There's also lay term partial birth portion right rights right which, but have you said, before a sort of no one likes to talk about abortion on the stump right. Well, I don't know I'm just thinking about the lay term partial worth abortion thing is that when Alabama and Georgia went and tried to create these heartbeat laws are created, these heartbeat laws and the left when Craig the they seem not to have noticed that it was their own, like dramatic moves on abortion to liberalize it to every possible extent in, in particular, in Virginia and in New York state that Ray ignited this counter attack and then the counterattack I'm. So what what's going on? I mean now. You know these. No one's gonna,
as though, as though politics is not a dialectic, and so you make a move on abortion in states. You think you control Virginia was kind of stupid, though, but New York and then you know so, there's a counter move in another state and then you like act like something evil was happening. Well, you know, maybe don't pushed the consensus to far don't you know like understood, and that you are, you are inviting it illogical tack on your thing. If you go and you idiot logically attack the other guy, which is the other problem. I think for leftist and liberals, which is that they, then they do not. They believed that day.
Advance everything they should advance and they believe that any counter assault as illegitimate, morally politically ideologically illegitimate, as though grown ups who deal with politics and deal with a country in which people believe different things understand that if you fracture the cancer This the people on the other side of the fracturing are not gonna just lie there and play dead. You know so, but am I right I mean are in these policies, the exception of like the green new deal, which is which is anti capitalist right or Some of these things are heavy handed regulation. These are you now politically more complicated, well,
for to raise. Some are not some are more cultural and that's, where trumpets going to probably leverage them to benefit a because he doesn't display a whole lot of interest and polishing it getting his head around it. I don't think he's at interested and he is an instinct for pushing cultural buttons and that's what he really thrives in. That's where he's gonna remain in. It also benefits them with the electorate. Rum, which is generally not policy focused and certainly not with the illogical that set up. Oh does nobody asked the DE plastic straw ban. Is the perfect example of what no is describing. So you known, Brad per scholars terms. Computer is taken the plus extra ban, as this exists. Full of kind of crazy lefty cultural overreach, trumps campaign as now telling a Trump branded plastic straw that you can buy online. It says you know, make straws great again and Libya paper straws, their neutrality turned to tag paper, straws with the liberal, able and I'm sure to be effective, and the funny thing is:
paper. Strasser are a bipartisan issue, because their terrible activity, dont work. So well, that's why he's like papers or rights smart about? Oh and then there are all kinds of interesting things: ancillary things about paper, straws versus plastics Ross Paper Strasser extremely difficult for disabled people who need bendy, Venice straws that can bend that way in order to drink out of out of CUPS and at a metal straws, which is the other option had Craigs story out of England, the person who, like you know the metal star, went up if they do their. I, your brain, even though they are leading, except that's one thing about six billion chip teeth all of and like the paper bags, they ultimately cost more carbon energy production to produce. What's so every ten years there is a ludicrous and balanced
there's, no federal straw ban. This is like local idiots like build the plaza. You know schmuck politic, schmuck, leftist politics where it's like you could do just fine with papers draws. Don't you know that penguins are choking on plastic, start happening. So every ten years on, we like the low flush toilet. Anybody remember the low flush toilet they, and they that everybody have a low flush toilet, and then you flushed your toilet, three times as much as some have the low flush toilet disappear and are, even though how then there was the incandescent light bulb. Then I mean is policies which then also get advance. This is the other funny thing about some liberals. Is that our assent, when their being played you know there are, danced by commercial interests like the paper industry is thrilled that they get the paper straws oppose the plastic straw g.
The only light bulb company making the kind of light bulbs that work in and replace the in Canada. Some bulbs when that happened in G play a huge lobbying role in getting the incandescent ball Ban through Congress, because this is it's it's in other commercial interests than the fantasy that some have. This is good for the environment. Is all nonsense, causes no says if you, if you you know, if you create more paper, we have what about that. You create more paper products, then you have to down trees, egg paper struck us any after use more paper, straws than plastics rise because they give native I'll apart bayonets. Christine's point is that this is. This is something that is universally relevant and if he pulled the thing which no one would dare do you probably find out that no one is on board. With this campaign was just sort of happened over night there was no consensus
looking around. But my kid came home from school. You know, saith grain is leg. We I dont want win. Win can ever ever have plastics rots one of those anti incremental ism things where nobody has a conversation and then it just sort of happens to you and you look around any say, while the pace of change is really kind of aggressive and that's a sort of thing that animates trumpeter animates just about any right, conserving right but trembling or not. So the question is the common sense voter right. There is a huge gap in talking. This about people who say you people are not like this is nuts, and you know sometimes if it goes in the liberal direction about serve conservatives who push you know a certain type of can push a certain type of ideological extremism in certain states in certain ways and practical policy like that have pushed
are pushing Texas, not just demographically but politically to the left, for example, are more in a liberal direction, because the texts rubble can party is gonna sort is x, is very, very eighty illogically driven to the right, and so you know a certain type of common sense. Voters like now wait a minute like an hour. We don't have to pray for ten minutes and school. You know stuff like that, but the common sense voter. This is where we get to the cultural stuff. So I'm gonna just talk to guys a little bit about lemon club, and then we can get to the cultural stuff, which I think is heart of the heart of the matter, for the getting Trump Elect thing. Look if you're carrying revolving debt, that means are not paying off your credit card every month and could be pink thousands of interest.
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morning, for was the painting of over of the George Washington mural Christine. Have a bunch of other such things in recent memory. Yes, just stand, let let Buddhists glance at a few things from the past few weeks, alone, the one that triggered me to be honest with the the idea The moon landing was racist and success because it was performed by white men, there was also an argument recently that the new Lion King Movie, that Disney is put out is sexy because it gives so much character development to the male lions, when, in fact female lions are the ones in charge of a pride. We have the Betsy us flag on sneakers incident, There is also that was when calling cabinet complained about the circular, the circular
lag gas Nike amounts. It would no longer make the sneaker with Sir with which it Larry to making which no one had seen. No one was aware of this nothing. I note the cloud for his own way is desperate to believe that this whole thing was joined up to get Mikey attention was was a message this this is important because I think I think there is there is something distinct anew at play with a lot of these cultural stories, particular the ones about cultural preparation. You know we ve had many of these we'd have no culture, preparation, work college in Entitle college student say that you know asian or ethnic cuisine, Campi served by a college. Cafeteria that mean a women can't we're hoop hearings. Unless there you know of hispanic origin, I mean you can wear kimono, like dress to prom. I mean these things actually take on a life of their own, when in fact, it's one, or two small incidents- and you know that I think
right. Leaning media has a stake in exacerbating these individual cases, but if you start adding them all up, it does actually give you a picture of this kind of cultural warfare. That's going on the one, when there are two other incidents. I think worth mentioning. One is the reason anti far episode where journalists Andy no was attacked and when the man three media's reaction to him being attacked by Anti far was to say he had it. Coming made the kind of thing that if you said that about a rape victim what you would be you know, persona non grata there or a journalist of another country covering a wide actually is He just went there to get himself. You know beaten up
right, isn't going over his brand exactly so there's that insane, which I think and the average common sense person looks at that says: that's upside down world right there, the other with his eyes, are recently which at first made me chuckle and then just made me think my god we ve all become so cynical. Was someone complaining about feel good store? is that go viral unsocial media like there was one where a young man was always walking to work, and so his employer found out that he mass transit wasn't helping him and he didn't. You know it was a tough situation. Women they ended up. Buying a car in this went global networks how nice people are kind to each other. The responsive of some of the sort of cultural warriors was. We can't feel good about this. We can't feel good about people being kind to each other, because then we lose sight of the real problem which is structural. You know racism, sexism class and whatever it is- and I think that's actually the issue. This idea that everything
is structural now for culture warriors on the left, violence, racism, massaging and if everything is structural than anything and everything can be racism, sexism, massage ready. We see this, the most recent Are we going around now? Is this Georgia State legislator, who claims that a white man told her to go back to where she came from, because she took twice as many items to the express lane at a grocery store check out than she should have. It quickly became clear that actually hadn't, said that, but then they're both squabbling in front of television cameras quite frankly think they both looked bad. But this idea, You know, NBC News went with the story of white man, tells black woman to go back to where she came from. So we do. The tendency here, which I think the average person the common sense.
Look satin says we ve gone. Nuts there is, there is a fear, is a principle in law called the reasonable man standard, and it has to do with how you determine whether or not something that is questionable, as of as of as a matter of personal conduct or something that has gone on in
relations or something like that really does count as a violation and the proposal needs to be disciplined for it. You know, and civil court or something and the reasonable man standard is, is this something did son so and so do something that any reasonable person would view as offensive criminal whatever- and this is a this- is a hallmark of common law. The reasonable men, standard and all of politics is is governed by the reasonable man standard. That's why we talk about character and stuff. That's why there's this whole question of its? Not just what people stand for, but what they're like and do you like someone do you wanna, have a beer with them. All of that effect effectively then regressed, to the mean of the reasonable man standard, meaning is all things being equal. Is this person does he? Does he seemed to reflect more of a rational view of how things work and so on?
but for him, as opposed to somebody else and- and I think all of these things and they're all pushed by the left- violate the reasonable man standard, not only that they would have a problem with the term reasonable man Standard Eddie, that's the other, as we haven't even mention of that right in Berkeley City Council right. Yes, that's where cultural begins becomes policy than them. Pronoun backlash were worn, I suppose he is pluralistic denote. Singular has become policy in in Berkeley where they have eliminated all references to gender male female. What have you in and replace it with something else in its did, gets very confusing. Other things like you can't say male or female, you have to now say persons of different genders which which were nobody has also invite domination over its request. We just spent whose we spent a decade being told that there is such a thing is,
gender fluidity, so what does it mean to be of a different gender? Is that your choice? Gender does ETA? Is that what gender are you anyway? I don't you get to pick. I mean man, I'll. Cover right is now call being quit. Maintenance cover, maintenance, whole anything with its suffix of man or something like that Germany has led us to be a journey. But these are two different words. They mean different things. We were the one my kids have heard at schools, sports person ship, you can't say sportsmanship anymore, if say sports person, ship, which is just upwards- the lower syllables so of a brief digression that go back a little bit to two points that Christine you made that I think are worth dwelling on one is: we are back to the net picking thing this whole wilderness in space week. You know anybody who focused on that was accused of elevating the fringes
This is to make a point about the irrationality of of the intersection of left, but we're not talking about fringe voices. We are talking about two article, two articles in the Washington Post, opinion page and to New York Times, opinion pieces, the nation which has one of the pre eminent swing, mom magazines and did so just noticing this noticing what is becoming mainstream has become what is accused of being not picking. Second, the you touched Brandenburg, not just to really delve into what I think might be something that could really elevate. Donald Trump. Is this new dynamic around outrage in the economy? The rope used for commentary magazine about called the outrageous, economy, talking about how these companies capitalize on these moments, which we would ostensibly think are amount to negative pr. One of the just happened.
Today where Macy's had a pet, a series of plates that had circles around them and they were in the indicative. Of how- how much have mooted right. Yes, I like this is one of them was like this: a skinny genes and desert. This is mom genes, portions and has just kind of humorous and somebody twitter user, with twelve hunt thousand followers. Not a lot said. You know me we should ban and then immediately Macy's came out said yeah we're gonna ban is absolutely right. You got it this week. We got this one wrong, so you would think why would they do that such a small segment of the population is even remotely? sit in the sort of thing. Why would they pants on then? The answer is because there are monetary rewards for leaning into these kind of controversies. You polarized the voter, bub people like to wear the politics on their sleeves. Every poll shows it and people patronize brow that share their values, so they might
get more sales in a very segmented market, from progressive Suno appreciate the sort of thing and the press proceeded with it, even though the alien conservatives who, by the way, will now go out and find whatever plate that shows people? Having put she's on it, just as Poland, the lips, so there by the way is isolating of theory. This is a theory like all the economies of social media era? There is a theory that you can win a loyal audience by doing some its demonstrable. It is not demonstrable, it is not demonstrable. There is no evidence to suggest, for example, that Nike suck up hurry to call a cab runic has gained mark absolutely that their sales increased by ten percent. In the wake of the Cavern scandal its which capitalism the kneeling one now fails, increase behind improvising, AOI increase. Thirdly, Gillette increase their sales. All of them do benefit from engaging in these controversies, but
ok, so I am now going to back off that weak. But my point is that in the long run this notion that you, you earn brand fealty through by the way, also I'd say this- which is if there is genuine outrage- I mean I don't air, whether Macy sells a polite, do disabled here, actually carelessly sells a play that suggested you need to watch food, you're gonna, where mom genes is supposed to see any genes, and- and I don't care the vulgar like when, when, when you get those kid things where they They have some sexual lized imagery. They want rules too, where some disgusting sexual ized, imagery shirt and people go crazy on line, and then they ban it. That's you know, as a
Father daughters, I'm for that you know. I think that is actually a marketplace responsiveness to something where some moron has gone too far. Somebody with no taste and no discretion has gone too far in doing something like that. So I mean that's it. That's that's a slippery slope. But calling covering may have aided Nike, but he did not aid the NFL beautiful, audience slid. Fifteen percent in the wake of the than the NFL is a much bigger business. You know is a huge business in the United States, so I really do on whose ox as being gourd, I think it depends on the size of the of the market share. The firm is trying to reach the shoes. Are a SEC made a market caught? Automobiles are a segment and market mass appeal. The industry, like the NFL.
Much bigger needs a much bigger share to be profitable, but I think no one has a point that there's is something different. That corporations are now doing where these many scandals, which in previous era's pre social media they would have just wanted to brush under the Reagan, quickly move beyond. They are instead kind of bracing to show that they ve, learned, didn't grown in there in their political correctness, whereas you know exists a very fine line. They ve always walk to meeting. We just know from gay pride that there were a lot of corporations accused of pink washing because they were saying, hey gay pride and they would do no put out some pr material and and gay rights Groups were saying: you're not allowed to do that, because you don't really support us because you're just doing this for PR. So there's something to be said, for this mean honestly, if, if you are truly paranoid, there would be some dark arts marketer, whose right now at Macy's deepen. There are indeed you know, coming up with a sense of things they can release and then you know, apology, its full and then ok Bay of Works, its way up the train,
Donald Trump at a rally. Endorsing whenever the counter product is going after night? For no reason other than to rise up the crowd and it becomes a cultural put. Two. Ok, but let us on the firm generates ten percent more sales figures, but let's go to the general issue of of what what kind of gift this may be to Donald Trump and what Democrats would need to counteract it so Abe. Yet I think The reason that the cultural stuff, I think is so much is- is a much bigger gift to him than policy stuff is because culture is really where people live, and these are the kind of things when you hear this it is. It feels suffocating, particularly particularly the you can't say, as you can have a product that has this on it and trumps I'll, just sort of uses it. If you, if you're suffocating Trump, finds a little at some air, its foul air. But, but if you
are suffocating. You will rush to failure because it will save your life you'd rather be clean air. That's, where he wins on the cultural stuff right so Democrats need rights or the trod. The attack on Trump, with the very people that are given slide the election is you ve had enough of right, the tweeting, it's the picks, fights its exhausting you now. If you vote him out, you'll never have to hear this, or you know this will all be a lot of this will go away. You know it's a blow for sanity. That's the debt write that he's driving the country crazy. By his case, right, but I'm an end. It is the general swing voter. If you think that the way to win the election is to win swing, voters and to win back some Obama Trump voters and not to engineer a gigantic, You know to flow of new voters served in the Obama coalition mom.
Who will swamp trump voters and win the election for him. So if you believe the Swinger case of the cases you've had enough, I'm going to up will will come in and you may have troubles with us, but we're at least get it would lower the temperature. Now you'll be safe and then every single time there is a story like this. That promise gets chipped away at a little bit. That's like you, think you're gonna, you're gonna have sadly and twenty twenty one work. These people are the ones organ of the one. You want to paint over a mule oh George, Washington, the ones who want to remove Thomas Jefferson's statue from the campus, of the University of Virginia the school that he found it, and the man who wrote the declaration of independence, the most important political document in some sense. In world history that created the idiot condition
for a society that was totally free. Something it had never existed before and also wrote, see first anti slavery ordinance in the country's right. No there, ten thousand things you can save and I think you know Jefferson had a lot of stupid and parlous ideas and was a bad president. Many ways, but you know but see? This is where I wonder if, if Joe Buttons messages, an already irreparably off target because he cannot say definitively star This is madness, cut it out, you're going to four. He can't say that's all evening camp fully say we need a return to sanity. We could we need, in fact, a little type of this we need a little bit of insanity of this type. Actually, then them than is funding if his fundamental messages is already completely compromise. I think there's a general election primary arguments. I think he's perfectly free to say that in this I need only that this is the question. So, let's, let's do thought, experiment, ok, you're you're, a democratic politician and
Huge issue arises because the faculty Senate at the University of Virginia says that different remove Thomas Jefferson Name, an order, and this squad stands at Further Jefferson Memorial and says it should be torn down because he was a you know, because he impregnated Sally Heavens and had slaves, even though we said was again, he huge hypocrite. This student, School kid shouldn't be brought to the Jefferson Memorial? This is terrible right in your Joe Biden right. So we would say this is the sister soldier like this is a gimme. You say: look did Thomas Jefferson not fulfil his personal life all of his ideals. Absolutely he didn't. Does any of us do any of us live according to our ideals. What he did He changed the world. He may everyone is free in America because, because of peace,
like him. Not only should we have monument to him, we should rededicate ourselves to his propositions right. He can't do it. I don't think you can do in the general election can imagine why, because that's a very unobjectionable sentiment and yes, there is apparently it a moment is defunct, but its defunct in a primary where you're relying on a lot of these radical vote. That's why What did it plan here? I think the primary he didn't do it and so piping had tat kind of tried to do this on race right when he was when Camel Harris in the first debate called basically column raises. He then, in the weeks afterwards, when he was out, campaigning, was talking about how he worked with Barack Obama is record, and this was this was a kind of mild wait, a sort of say you know it breathing, isn't racism, which is which is sort of, I think, for the reasonable voter. This country, something
We hear a lot of now from mainstream media, certainly from the progressive left. The thing is re says: so: if everything is racist than people stop paying attention to what actually is racists and there are. There is unfortunately, still a lot of racism in this country, and there it is the consensus that we can point to and hopefully deal with, but that is the narrative, I think, unless Biden, I agree that he has to actually be much tougher. Maybe he will do that if he gets to the general election, but the couple of times he's tried to to thread that needle he's gotten a fair amount of backlash in general. The question here is: our friend Jeff Kogi people on them. People on the right have, I think, with Jared and reason said the Trump becoming the voice of patriotism when he pissed all over the country and twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen and before it now now. Is you know Mr Lovett or leave it? I think that you know that's a serious argument right there
that's a thing there that maritime attack them your life is proud of his country yeah right, but you know, so that's the way it is so now he is Mr Lovett or leave it. This is America and stop scrapping all over America are what what's their argument they're, not cropping all over america- means that by the way you only say is this right. Now is the squad scrapping Oliver America's letting all Democrats grapple over America, but he can he can t- can broaden that message out as time goes on and then this whole and then Brian Stealth, durables gallons. Everybody in the media, will say, he's a monster in the demagogue and all of that. But it's that kernel of truth problem or more than a kernel of truth like if they have any logically turned on this. On the on the.
If the position, if the Howard Zinn position about America has become the default position of of the Democratic Party cannot win the presidency, I think they're too, crazy. I dont think Americans hate America. I a small number of Americans on the far right and the far left, hate America, but I don't I think eighty percent of Americans love America. I may I don't know, maybe I'm wrong now I do not. I don't think. That's me. I think that's sort of nine expands. The argument here that were trying to make beyond any reasonable proportion died when you're getting that territory. That's demagoguery, and I don't think that's that's what the european Identity Guy Vietnam demagoguery, because Joe Biden still leading the pole the unsafe lot. I'm not I'm, not I'm not saying at this moment right time, seeing basically that people
in democratic Party think why do they think Joe Biden is more electable than anybody else? because he's or reasonable and the most reasonable candidate, and there is a real fear among prep, perhaps even an illogical fear, but if your none, the less of the far left activist wing that is putting wind into the sales of progressive candidates who do in the aggregate, represent a real threat em if they were united by in one particular candidate, though not yet they may eventually be in. That could be what undoes him. But Biden is the loan candidate making this
argument that we just need all this, but no tweets a return to sanity, and that is the winning message in places that these progressive candidates need to appeal in places like Iowa among live, really activist caucus, goers white, progressive caucus, goers and South Carolina, which is mostly african american voters, the backbone of the democratic parties base. And if those two things are united behind Joe Biden running can still win with that message, then? Yes, why? Wouldn't he in the general election transition into a much more sort of gauzy, vague patriotic message about what which we candidate, the ideals to which we can appeal once more ok, salary asked this question though, is Joe Biden problem going forward performance based though, where he has acted, does it is it that his message is the winning message to get through?
The primary season, as long as his performance is up to standard and Democrats judge that his performance in the first debate was not up to standard. Basically generically speaking, he seems to be down about six points in the polls and harrassing still risen six point the Poles, though, in all these pulse he still leading outside the margin of error and issue in he rose relative to a very poor state, well she's, so she's. Now she went from ten to sixteen wearing the latest Paul and but he is still leading in Iowa New Hampshire and in South Carolina lenient. Of Carolina by foot by twenty high points. He's lying. I wouldn't Hampshire outside the margin of error. So here's what I'm saying if he does really badly in the debate next week and he starts to melt down further. Does them
such go away because he's the only one who was promulgating. The message: when are you still have see bullock, You're still have Amy Klobuchar Michael Bennet, Bennett, John Delaney, I'm just saying. But if you, the message is so potent. Somebody else's gonna have to carry the message other. Why herons with America was worn, is gonna, be the moment of the Democratic Party, but there's it and I could go with her hair. I say I could see Harris trying to take a little bit of the more moderate ground from Biden, but I dont mean much he's. Gonna hinge, bindings buttons percent perceptions by the primary voters. Abiden are gonna, also hinge on how Harris performs in the next debate. Right she got her gotcha moments, you got a little bomb deference gay camel hair as but we'll see. I'm not sure she is. I think a lot of the critique said Noah has made of her in the past on the podcast
will prove true again and that she's gonna shit. She might get her gotcha moment for a minute on television, but then she's gonna be back peddling and when she tries to actual explain her policy, she becomes a huge muddle, so But I could see her as a matter of strategic positioning going that direction rather than the Elizabeth Worn, Bernie Sanders direction. But you know there is a technical link between message and performance for Biden, which is at the message, invites the attacks from others. That then put his puts him on. Defensive right, but if his messages the winning message, he should be less on the defensive right. That's that's the commander of that's where I am I sure that when it goes to the general, he may think that he can pivot and go Guenaud patriotic American Minos Centre, even the little centre right if he needs to
based on the polling, but he will have had a year of running away from every possible moment at which he could have established that Beach Hannay's. Not That thou hit- he hasn't been doing that since the debate yet about debate moment, but he hasn't, he hasn't backtrack round. Bosnia, that's one say so: is it formative nets? Poligized little well known. He didn't he didn't wake This is a better that's. The others are. That was effervescing. That was for working right, senator aggregation of sharing at issue here, respectively, opening unsolvable sense. So my question, then is: is it so you're saying the message is good. The debate I think a blip. The laughing has allowed its very essence progressive, but what? If he has a lousy debate again and its he looks old eddies? You know his voices at sea, you know he starts looking like Grandpa Simpson and- and it served goes down like that, then
Does the message die with him? I mean that's if the message dies with him and there are twenty three p and they're, all fighting over. How did too, how to eliminate ice and have no borders trump. Sal sachets into the presidency. That's that's policy, that's like, but it isn't policy its culture right. Yet could none of those actually policy? No one's dismantling border barriers? Nobody! There is an actual proposal abroad to to eliminate the immigration cost. Get worse and you have something called the Congress which is not going to do any of ok, but it doesn't matter whether Congress there is not going to do it. It matters if it becomes a major campaign element that then Trump can pull out of the platform and smash the
over the head. I mean that person we is dead and get over or skis on this one, because our Donald Trump and a whole lot of things during the campaign that we all thought rendered him toxic for the general election and turns out campaigns or have a life of their own. Why my getting From my c I mean the deportation force alone in the Muslim Ban and the muslim registration and all that stuff. We said: that's crazy, not a person, that's never going to happen and it didn't, and second of all, it's going to be something it's going to be. Beaten over the head every hour for the course of the general election, and it wasn't ok, but here's my think. You have been saying for months that the story, the twenty eight election, when forty republican districts went democratic, forty districts went democratic? Was they didn't run ideologically? They
and on Emily Ferocity ideological like these candidates. If it had been twenty fourteen, they would have seen like far left wingers. But this is the way politics gone. They went practical of health care, they did local issues and then they dealt and then the idea was that trumps negatives worked smoke cells right. So, if the, if we have a good they were, there were eighty tromp they were, they were anti trump and disposition. All Democrats should be evidence and all Republicans Randy Obama, all that the question is, if they don't. If the Democrats spent a year running through the primary on leftist cultural leftist issues and cultural issues and if Elizabeth, if every one is forced to put a she, she her in their twitter profile. Or he him or tells it were. Somebody says they. That would be interesting. Who would say they you know I mean. Is that
you know, you only need a half. A percent of the voters to be turned off by something like that in the right place for trumped to win Minnesota in Iowa and New Hampshire investment One of my point, the happy lost I will by appointing New Hampshire, wait to be when I cakes of Minnesota in New Hampshire, New Hampshire lost by three thousand votes so Minnesota in New Hampshire that stuff, that's thirteen more for Timor, electoral boats, which would mean that he could whose Wisconsin, but if we won Minnesota in New Hampshire, he could still be. I get more than three hundred electoral see. I think if, if the, if the message dies, if Biden goes down there, I do think that message dies with him and I think the identity extremism is is deadly for Democrats. But I do
that there is still an opportunity, in that case, to pick up for further don't rats to pick up on the inequality class inequality in committee in inequality stuff, and I think that there is still some sort of opening for but Bernie and was before, and on that message, that's not that's not, I guess, but that's it goes, and nobody is running on. Let's take the temperature doubt on this whole thing right: ivory: he's running on. Let's, let's raise the temperature in our direction, then events where there is between two high temperatures, you're gonna go with the w now Christine I was gonna say I dont know if everyone right it, but there was an increase in the Wall Street Journal today, written by one of the co founders of Justice Democrats, which base quickly was it for anyone who might hope that they understand how political compromise and Congress actually works will disproved that idea entirely because it basically says we should be attacking our own, because they're, not liberal enough in the tone of it, was both Strangely triumphal list in the past sort weeks, new site,
but also should be a chilling read to anyone who thinks that this is just right. Wing media. You know pointing at the squad and pointing at the justice democratic and saying you know. Oh that's just a radical friends. You don't really need to worry about them and in this link so the Biden case, if we do see Biden, start flailing on answering these more radical progressive proposals that that will be the future. The democratic party is, is justice democratically as there is a I mean this is the moment now, where you could really throttle the baby in the cradle to justice. Does yeah day the House Democrats led by congressional black HAWK Islam in good standing have every incentive and sort of weird and
action of killing this thing before it gets out of hand and then their backing off a little bit and though the lab salute, we regret it. This is it. This is the rise of the of heritage, action and Jim dimension. There is no way to kill it. There is no way to kill it, it cannot be killed, it cannot be killed unless the media kill it and see are adequately. The media could kill it. If the media, the visa, is a hive mind, it's not a meaning. You know to soothe me my headphones, my from them, but it's a serve a hive mind, and so, if there comes a moment in the fall or something like that, when it becomes clear that trumpets gonna win the presidency unless they're somehow stilled or quasi, then maybe there will be a kind of hive. My movement to still are cross them, but remember the make up of major meeting
institutions now is very much divided. Younger people in these newsrooms and in these organisations that have gone so digital and digitally minded are all commies, and I mean commies, like literal commies, like their socialist thing, like socialism, their full of identity, politics, nonsense and they attack their elders inside these organizations. Should they take views that they consider the elders end like there
losses and stuff like that on their internal slacks and their meetings and stuff like that, when their bosses seem insufficiently committed to the progressive cause which, by the way, instil terror, as we know from the Atlantic and Geoffrey Goldberger, come within still terror in these old white guys who have no principles and no convictions and no backbone, and so, if they are required somehow in their mystical hive with Turkey to go at the squad or to help implicitly health policy and Biden and the same people in temporary price or they can win the elections. Twenty. There was a break against their doing so because they will be eaten alive by their own. You know, cadre of young, you know, Maoists culture. Revolutionaries that'll, be fun. Moment
I wouldn't I dont want all enjoy dereliction responsibility, not to put its thumb on this scale to have towards the benefit of one particular parties, political prospects. I now that would be really just it's here I mean I mean come on, let's get real here, but you did see some of that. I mean there was a little there. I mean that the discomfort when you had to go see and Rashida Tlaib, basically saying the Pelosi is racially suspect, was palpable nobody even really wanted to cover the subject right. Well, sir. Oh, they go no farther than they pull back a little bed. You rather like all that I mean the great triumph last week was, of course, that media organisations agreed to use the word races to describe
pumps tweets, as opposed to the word, I racist with quotation marks around them. This isn't advance of enormous proportions. That's the kind of you no sort of navel gazing you now, let's call something being what it is, because otherwise Trump is gonna, get away with it. While you know what he'll get away with it, also with their quotation marks a rather if there are in quotation marks around it, because now but he cares about your internal process of determining what is and what is not objective behind, but you're, not objective. Democracy dies in darkness. John I still don't know what that means. What does that mean? It's supposed to make? You vaguely anxious that if the wash imposed doesn't continue to publish with its pseudo particular political bent that we will no longer have
Well! It's true cause of washing post stops publishing pieces about how the APOLLO eleven ambition was sex system and racist. That's in America, just cancer that somehow- and I just can, I just say one quick thing, which is that, on the matter of push back from the sort of traditional democratic Party, the scent of american progress, it basically sent a memo to the Democrats recently saying we're we're losing the messaging more about immigration. This is distinct from the policy war. Evidently, but this idea that you know saying you gotta let em all in open borders, verses having some semblance of the rule of law. They ve obviously. Finally, look at polls that show that the american people generally prefer. Some you know are fairly pro immigrant, but expect certain restrictions and and rule of law. I found that interesting because they ve been in a fairly a loud voice against trump consistently, but this is chose a little bit of anxiety on their everybody.
Here: s, Red Nate, Collins, peace discover a cone of the New York Times. Rights for the upshot in his aid is one of the three or four great sort of the appalling downturn data journalists. He Harry end in obviously made silver and David Viler of the Washington Post and had a simultaneous opinion, about the nation being a little centre right on immigration, and I wish I were shocked- lion these these. This- would that just the fact that they had not encountered this argument before they read it and in the New York Times is illustrative of.
I don't so this piece said Trump. Could the Democrats could beat Trump bye, byes many as five million votes and still lose the election, the electoral college? And it's it's really an important piece, and there was a there was a similar piece in Bloomberg. Somebody else did comprable piece the same day, so it was one of those moments where it's like. Suddenly people are waking up to how you know they're not just going to waltz in. Whilst in twenty twenty. The immigration thing is a perfect example of the reasonable man standard. I use myself as an example. Here I am, or I was as diverse as you could be- on immigration on the right I had been for years. At the first indication I had that immigration was turning as a political issue really to the republican base was at a cynic
in two thousand and six, where I gave a speech, and I said something about the Saint Louis. Somehow, Jews really should be pro immigration cause of their own history, and I got booed I'm in a slightly not night what world there were The entire audience, but there were like ten or fifteen booze, and I thought this is interesting, because this is like a crowd came to hear me. Friendly, understood, who I was all that an end, and there was enough people in the crowd who were like none and Nana Nana know right. So I've been dovish on this forever and when I hear them talk about immigration, I think they're crazy. I think there crazy big? Should you you should not be allowed to arrest somebody who cross the border illegally. You
change the law so that they get a ticket instead of getting arrested for crossing the border with the one it remove border barriers and points of entry. You want it like this sent. You sound crazy and so That's me, imagine somebody was not me was just like OECD isn't even doesn't even have a particular ideological commitment to the idea that America is in part a nation of grants and that one of its greatness is is how wealthy welcoming it has been to the stranger and all that right, you're, just some guy and see some guy and missed, again and listening to democratic debate and there, like you, know, border agents are racist and you're. Like ok, you know I can vote for you're crazy. That's that's where I think this go so the case to be made for increased immigration at a time with full on full employment and below replaced
level birth rates, but that will that's a whole as an argument to make their making it possible argument to make if you're saying uterus race as well, and also of course, other argument, which I think is slightly more complicated, but I think, goes the reasonable man standard witches were constructing concentration camps on the ball, better than a hundred thousand people are longing to get into, that appears to oh yeah, which culture cultural tanks forgot actually, but that one in that a population control which are really actually super happens. The far left me I haven't had a degraded up the changes yet. But watch is a lot of this not a game of the public right anyway, so with that we will bring this episode to close Ford. Noah Christine and Abraham John put words, keep an animal.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-03.