Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily podcast today is Thursday July Eighth, two thousand and twenty one. I am John Podhoretz. The editor of Commentary magazine Noah Rothman, is out this week with as always senior writer Christine rose and high Christine I got, Negative editor, AWOL, high Abe Hygiene swung one note If you go to the July August issue of commentary either online or if you get it in your mailbox size, you should. There is a wonderful memoir there by Roger Bennet, on growing up as a Jew in Liverpool, in the nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties, and how he developed a passionate love for the United States. Rogers book reward in the USA debuted at number one on the New York Times best seller list that that that

the New York Times on the eighteenth of July, so we have an excerpt from it. Go, read it and then by the book do will be happy. reborn in the USA. That's my person out just to make the point that we have an excerpt from a number one best seller. My second note is that dumb covered, Cases are up, we have a lot of. We were like plunging down below the ten thousand mark just like a week, weak half ago and The numbers now seem to be rising in tat case numbers into the fifteen thousand twenty thousand range. Now the New York Times number. I think yet this morning, which was fifteen thousand new cases, does indicate A hundred and sixty two deaths, which means that there are more cases and the. society of the virus is going down

I was one when we had higher case number. We were generally, there would be there be more deaths on this is the thing about the the highly contagious dealt very and is that term? It is not clear that, while it is, it is clear that is more contagious than the original either, because so many people are vaccinated and if they again and what very few number people get it apparently at it, it makes the disease is all but asymptomatic were very, very mild or it's just not as bad as dealt a very that's, not that's not his dangerous, become by now the fact that they now know how to treat people so that they so that the treatment doesnt doesn't worse than the disease, which was some. the case, at least in the early going last year in the spring This, of course, is bad and seventeen different ways and, aside from the whole question that we made

little fun of which is that people seem to be worried, not that the delta, very it is going to lead to the gamma variant toward the Lamb, the various other. If there is a term yes, the Lamb, the very it is the term that's now being used with the lamp varied is a thing is its apparently like originated in Peru so that that word not afraid that this viruses, the one that's gonna, kill us, but that this virus mutate into way into another, under of the virus, that will be that will evade the protection of the environment. Vaccines in particular and then Bobby and in real trouble. Again Oh you can make fun of that. In other words like restricting people now, in order to prevent that later is maybe

bridge too far. But it gets us back to the question of what is the public health responsible to be, and I keep getting emails from listeners very nice listeners are not necessarily very nice listeners explaining. Their reasons for not giving vaccinated and complaining that I say you not people who don't get vaccinate or idiots and all that and what it was What is fascinating is that has become a marker to people of a kind of courage, some people have not getting back say they are not giving in to. You know the conventional liberal wisdom in some fashion and that's it things deranged. That's a man you're giving in to sort of thought tearing impulses by taking voluntarily submitting yourself to a vaccination regime I'll, keep it but

I'm not I'm not gonna play devils advocate for people who still refuse vaccination has, I think, ever to get back to me, but I will say this and then there's the evidence for a lot of their concern comes directly from the binding ministrations message about vaccination. So yesterday we had binding and again I'm not like a lot of crazier. Rightly media saying that he lit meant this literally I said you know we're gonna go door to door, we're gonna, really trying to get people to get vaccination where the whole does. That was, of course, mutated into into some argument about. You know: government people coming knocking dinosaur enforcing vaccination. You that's not what he meant, what he meant that they really going to continue to try to do this targeted outreach to communities that are still resisting, but then you know his agent Chet Secretary goes on CNN and starts talking about, vaccination very weird way, so he he said. No. We want to give people the sense that they have the freedom to choose vaccination, but we hope they choose to live with

people make the right choices where America we try to get people as much freedom of choice as possible. By you know we really want to make sure that in fact needs to someone who is already suspicious of government intervention in their lives. In particular, government sponsored medical intervention. That's not a great message traded thought what we know. You love freedom, but it there's a better way to to make this argument. There's also got to be an acknowledgment at some point that some people will always refuse vaccination. That is, there's gonna, be a population. It never gets the shots and for whatever he's an, but the binding ministrations messaging on this hasn't been helping their efforts to reach the populations that they claim to want to reach. Ok, so, but I have a problem with the response to the we're gonna go door to door. Because Dan Crenshaw, whom I like the congressmen from Texas and I think the very good I was of the american hero and very admirable person and funny and as a good light spirit

sad you know: don't you come knocking on my door, you know man. This is terrible. I frankly, I'm sorry Understand the power of that statement. It seems quite Is it me, someone come knocking on your door and says Haim from the government. I have a vaccine, do you wanna? Take it, you just say no, all one giant that were uncle officials have been owing to my city for four months. It haven't worked, but they were doing it. I am but what I'm saying is fine, so they are. The whole purpose of this is the. trying to make vaccination as easy as possible. And so that no one coming to your door and saying you have to be back saying that you know high, I'm from the government, here's my badge and here's my gun and you have to be vaccinated, this is this? Is it out so tat when you have Republicans treating and effort. Like this, as though it were a

you know as though it were You know the IRS coming to your door to arrest you for tax evasion that I understand why that's a politically potent message, but see I'm sorry, it's incumbent on the binding administration to do better messaging on this. I ve had the time to figure this out. They know that people particularly the whole doubts, have deepened. Emissions at the government and its not just crazy way: poor trumpeters its so African Americans, in many cities that are controlled by Democrats there is it there's a suspicion about the government, and I think that I really put the The onus you're on the binding demonstration he shouldn't be so cavalier and language he uses of about something that so sensitive to so many people. So I agree You don't want to have the back licence reaction, but they should do better footing.

And sir, I think, is the ultimately is the answer that you gave, which is that we have with this, is a gigantic social experiment, and what were learning is that there is a significant population appeal. people who are not going to go along with that. Some point, you have that sort of like close up shop and say it's there. If you want to get it, it's there It's your drug store. It's a bit could beat your doctors office. I mean, I guess our issues with you know: storage at the incredibly called him but just where they are and vaccines. But it's there go, get it and, if not not, and then The real push question is gonna, be when, when emergency approval is replaced by general approval and what happens with, kids on whether there is gonna be some kind of a gigantic outbreak of anti vaccines. Men about mandatory vaccination for schoolchildren witches all other issues.

obviously I guess, if you're an adult new shoes to get the vaccine- and you have kids You'Re- not gonna- want your kids to get the vaccine either in them the rubber, the rubber we'll meet the road- and there is even a there's even of Two perfectly credible argument for white kids shouldn't vaccinated right, their kids, don't don't get it, they don't die from it. They hardly get it they. There is very little evidence that they can transmit it, but, of course, all of these things late to the original corona virus, and we don't know what the consequences. we're gonna be of the mutations and whether they will follow the same in all the same epidemiology your call pattern prince only at some point the virus can mutate in such a way that it will have an effect, a worse effect on kids. Then then

then the original dead. After all, this is like the first pandemic in world history children seem to be relatively immune, and that was the old who were disproportionately head. So I Agnes What we're living in this poisonous moment at which even of a very rational ordinary, I think very conservative, but but in fact, in his in his spirit the middle of the road Republican like like down. Crenshaw goes with this popular. dont tread on me Gadsden flag message about something that is not correct, that not actually coercive, so I agree, entirely that the blame diminish patients messaging on this has been a failure and evaluate, and in a number of ways and for a long time. At the same time, I think the problem is is bigger than that, because it's hard to imagine

a successful Biden met Jeanne strategy on this, because the very idea that the administration, reckon is recommending it anyway, whatever its message behind it is sort of these is a part of the turn off from getting it through sort of nothing that the establishment could say. would convince those who are suspicious of the establishment to get the vaccine. My torrent, mirrors. Doesn't it the way that when Tromp was urging the reopening of schools when he was still president lots of otherwise rational people on the other side of the political I'll, suddenly decided that they were trained bit. Trump was trying to kill. Children in teacher is right, even though the evidence was very clear that what he was arguing for was the best thing for school, kids and the states that reopen have proven that

but as soon as from said, reopen schools, rumours of whole migration of people who who set reason aside for for political partisanship and imposed it well. I bananas worse than counterfactual, you want to run in your head, like those forty three, thousand votes in zone and then George, The mission whatever go the other way and trump the election instead of loses it. I'm he becomes the premier arabic for the vaccination regime and who gets it and who doesn't get at them. Maybe it would be that a kind of loyalty test for Trompe L, I welcome your scheme, I think I'm out of their trompe and Republicans. It could just be world peace Poland. This Vienna thing I keep saying, which is, I think that there is a needle phobia thing going on that we haven't that people have an adequately taken the measure of

but a majority had calmly heresy in September that she wasn't gonna necessarily trusts that the that the vaccine regime promulgated by Trump would be the one that she would trust stripe. I I am certain that these size will be reversed on this head that, on the other way, and arguably have been worse because would have seen mainstream media backing up. All these worries about suppose it linked. illnesses, and you know but bad consequences from those who at that stage. It would have been there there have been some push at least some continued Bush about this narrative that their vaccine was rushed through. For political reasons, and maybe some corners or put what luck the Anti Max movement of people now seem to have come to the point of associating the anti wax movement with the rider Christianity? Wax movement really began

in the early nineties with a spike with the kind of unexplained and still explainable spike in the diagnosis of tourism in children and the desperate effort apparent start to understand. Why was that? Suddenly, one in a hundred and sixty six kids was being diagnosed does artistic, and so they look to their imagine. They look to vaccines as may be one of the causes right. So that was not a right. wing cause the these suspicion of drug company and vaccinations, and things like that was a left wing environmentalist cause at the time. Very much so like a war and apple like the whole idea, was that there was this kind of code. Chemical industrial, complex that was foisting ingested holes in it Jack tables and things like that on the american people for profit, making reasons that

add, would have terrible consequences on the on the human genome, now somehow and it was made, A street Pooh said: don't eat map or because there's this thing called a law that makes apples. Look redder and it'll kill you, and that was untrue. Wasn't gonna kill you had no, who had no harmful, but it wasn't. You know, spread furs and survival lists, and rural people like this was a. There was a gigantic tort bar at arose for the purpose of making billions of dollars suing pharmaceutical companies trying to get their clients. Its before jewelry saying MIKE. My Michael, my my client was irreparably harmed by some by some pills that they talk and am you know, it's not just Opie or in other words the though finding against produce pharma unfeminine opiates, and all of that is the tail end,

Thirty years of a litigation strategy on the part of the tort bar to to ring money out of pharmaceuticals, are on their own, claim that even things that had been approved after seven after decades of trial and error and all of that war, harmful and so were now Don't we again? We ve come to the point where this idea that only conservatives distrust science. Well, when I was when I was growing up, it was bees that distrusted science are blue distrust sides, and then it was kind of may Stream was sixty minutes, the distrusted finds it was. You know, Erin Brok, virtue, distrusted science. That was why science distrust was sown and so this notion that somehow we know we know and then even and then other stuff, like the horrible government

fermentation on black. We know that the EU, the Tuskegee experiments with syphilis and all that, like so people this old mistrust, was not sown by by our side, but it dovetailed with the rise of it. Are you there? dovetail with Ruby Ridge and wake up the serve the rise of the notion that the government is actively looking to destroy anti government rural communities that set up on their own for their own purposes and want to protect themselves and then get you now attack to write an attack by the F B, I attacked by the eighty f, but I think it's an important qualification that Ah people seem to love this idea that this is all a kind of this aligns neatly a politically, but. Christy. As you say, the fact that african american communities and

particular seem as maybe not really not, but as vaccine hesitant as some of you rural communities, where, in fact, by the way there much much more at risk, much more at risk, if you know in a densely packed urban heading from coal Then you are, if you live in, a fire community in Europe, Five acres, A quarter of a mile away from the next farm blunders. This way again to eat a dead horse, I blame the autonomous regions messaging and the Trump administration was equally bad about messaging this too, but there are different rationales route, people's resistance. So if you're in a kind of conservative, leaning, rural dwellers, the fear

government isn't that it's gonna come an experiment on you. The fear about government in general is that it wants you to become dependent on it right, so you wanna be self reliant. You wanna do your own thing and be left alone, and the fear is they're gonna come in here and there and a force you to become dependent on all these government things or you know, for sure to take vaccines are forced to do this. Company your land, if they need to use it for government purses theirs, it there's a kind of general resistance to the idea that individuals should become dependent on the state. That is not the fear. Driving african american communities in cities. There's that there is a totally different thing, and so when, when buying says going to target either the messaging two different committees. That would be great, but I don't see any evidence that that's what they're doing or that they have a good plan for that. So when I hear the Asia just Secretary going on CNN and sang out, we know you love your freedom, but really all these people have died. What's the matter with you, you ve got to do this. That doesnt resonate with either community right, because one doesnt wanna, be depend on the government and doesn't believe it needs the government's help. The other one is more

dependent on government, but doesn't trust the government has their interests in mind because there are minorities of both that messaging work for either crew by. I don't think it's free mission, complicated and the other thing by the way is that is the simple, pragmatic fear which connects to the Bible, fear and connects, primarily fear on the part of people who are resisting vaccination, who didn't like lock Now, who we know who who are now saying that were locked out were bad and stupid and foolish, which we don't know I mean I am we were as hostile to the you now to the love of lockdown, as anybody could be, we can't write again. We camped run some kind of a simulation that tells us what would have happened with the spread of covert. Had there not been locked downs, obviously a lot of the lockdown stuff turned out not to be

meat and particularly the sort of the cleaning regimes and all of that, but the social distancing we just generally, we don't know- and we do seem to know that in indoor spaces where you know where particle particulate matter comes out of people's MAO's and hits other people that that is a is a form of spread that the service birthday party spread in in indoor spaces as a serious things people are now saying all lockdown was all of the all. Lockdown was all terrible. Lockdown was crazy, lockdown was awful and we just don't know oh how many people might have been saved by had- and so we should probably be more modest about claiming that it's wrong as the people who think that it, totally necessary in every particular, seem to be a modest by claiming that it was necessary. it's more than that. I mean I personally. I suspect that

police, the excesses of lockdown, were a mistake, but I understand, certainly initial impulse in the initial policy, but the differences you? What was so, to the extent that I large towns were a mistake. I think they were a mistake just that, because governments make mistakes a lot, what the problem is that a lot of the people were particularly hostile. To this view, have makes this all up with some sort of plot and at some sort of conspiracy idea about lockdown said it wasn't a mistake. It it is intended to of corral. The american people for one these are another choose? Should have you no voice, some kind of new canoes, safety is an regime honest and depending on

Are you taught you and how crazy again it's in conjunction with the banks and with the whatever else and that European its foundation, the Gates Foundation, exact yeah yeah? So so that's you out so you again, but but What most of what I see, people who are resistant to to vaccines, interest resistance to every you know every recommended The policy that's been enacted since since covered to me. They are simply acting out in accordance with the shape of our political. sure today, where every single decision, every new thing divides people into camps, one prominent, one of which is going to be a service centred around conspiracy theories and that's ever yeah so

Not a very literally email DES vary from somebody who's. I love your pockets and listening to it, I just what you want on. This ran the other day about how stupid everybody as it does now. It won't get the vaccine, I'm canadian, I'm thirty. Four, I'm not gonna get the vaccine, I you should listen to bright wine steam and his wife had around their podcast. Their talk about Iver methods that all this stuff is together, and you know that six thousand people do say no one's died from from the vaccination regime and six thousand people have died from the vaccination regime in the United States, and this is not true. I mean I mean I can't it's impossible. To detail how not true this is when there the worry that the Johnson and Johnson vaccine might be creating heart problems. For seven people out of eight million who had been vaccinated, The CDC issued that guidance about how you should maybe not take the jobs and jobs

in vaccine, if you were a woman between ages of twenty and fifty that's what happens when the data come. Back bad seven potential, He says that of eight million. That's not that less than one in a million. If six thousand people had died from the vat donation regimes. The vaccination regimes would have been stopped, but people will believe anything that they hear this is part of the political point of our time is that is that the people will believe false data that confirms their priors in an astonishing way they'll just don't that that day, they can't help it if this were a poorly. If this were polio and we're time at the polio vaccine, we're two thousand and twenty two thousand and twenty one. We see the exact same thing happening. It has nothing to do with me at content of of the vaccine or the or this particular virus

and to the bread one scene and Heather higher point, I in a day about cancer culture, I love to listen to them. I met them, they're really thoughtful people, they are also professional, contrary and so, and so they have been on their part kind of in a coup contrary in way trying to look at all this stuff. I disagree with the conclusions drawn about vaccination wrists and actually are friends. Colette have just published a piece by a clever since January? Dying in that that sort of take support? Some of the claims that they're making on their part cousin invites them to a written exchange of ideas where you can actually gonna document the stuff and and show work as they say. So I wouldn't I you know I like Britain and other a lot, but on the vaccination stuff, I think they are spreading of bad enough. Nation, and I got people were lower than I dont know. That is that I don't know that it is they who, who promulgated the six thousand people dead thing. So I dont want to blame them for that most play they stream from one. I gather to be saying that treatment

Regimes have been kind of four: away from the public conversation and their hyper skype cool about reporting data about vaccination. Again, I think they were very brave and remember these were these are people on the left who were at you know this the american halogen in Northwest Washington and had em had there had their lives partially destroyed in the most in the same way, and so I don't want to. I don't want to pick them, but yet professional could tourism has its place and it's an important part of all conversations that that they Toby Young and in England, with his lockdown sceptics website and stuff like that God. It's very important that that there is a voice there, but you know it still is come on individual people who are trying to think this. Bruce seriously to be able to make distinctions.

For example, in the ultimate lockdown distinction. It is not every thing is all the same thing. It was clearly a mistake to insist on this. You know sort of insane hyper. cleaning regime which, by the way people are still going and stores and stuff like that. There still wiping down the counter every you know, after every commercial transaction at certain drugstores. In places like that, I mean it's, not our german foams buddy. I guess it's ok, but closing trying to make sure that Small spaces that aren't perfectly ventilated, aren't over stuffed with people was not a mistake. I'm sorry like that was not a mistake. It was a mistake to court beaches down. It was a mistake and by the way at that,

time, it seemed did say because of the open air. Locking playgrounds which you know the Plaza Owen, Cuomo Dead in New York state that stuff, all of that by the way was done not because they really thought uncovered was noticed round. Playgrounds was because this is where we get into trouble. Or with like liberal, the liberal love of government. They were trying to make it clear to people that they should stay in their homes and therefore they were using these emergency powers to make b outside is unattractive as possible unless you were going for a walk. You weren't supposed run by the way. If you run you swear, you beat you whatever. You might expect arrayed in some fashion or shed virus through Europe through your sweat, which might shake on someone. But you could take a walk That was the only thing you were supposedly allowed to do as it is Creepy is horrible and creeping in government that they should be have been pushing improbable

Then there was clear at the time that doesn't means Closing a movie theater wasn't the right thing to do by the way was unclear. The time that closing schools in the spring of twenty twenty was the wrong thing to do either when you didn't know what the condition circumstances were in the schools are how this thing was spreading. Yet people didn't really know yet. Hope point is that by buying June or July, became very clear what the patterns were and then the law down rules didn't change partially, because liberals, like them and were still and then we were in locked in this ridiculous ideological, struggle where we're whether what if you had feel tee to the most fundamental list Lockdown regime or what my boy, my my friend, Raquel Hers, called them: COM, Glock, covert,

for those of you who know cash route. You know if you, if you were glad Calvin, you were you were making clear if you weren't, just that terrified you were making clear what your political affiliation was and what your social affiliation wants, and all of that that's the worst possible. But now but now it's happening now and we ve had. Seven months of vaccination now, seven months of actually like, I don't even know what the number is is it is it a hundred and seven five million Americans have been backs manner. More, haven't you one shot, that's like more! That's insane! I think about. That is if, if, if people were dying from the themes Everybody would know somebody who died from the vaccine, but That's not what you don't understand, how they can not even conspiracy minded, but the hyper skeptical of government mind works, which is that we wouldn't know because their hiding it right. That's where you got it, that's where the labelling

Then you get the reverse, which is, of course their hiding the fact that covetousness lethal, as they say right now, I'm eating rise again. Oh yeah, six hundred thousand people have died. Tell me another you now. I know you see. The jokes about dinner did deaths that are called for covered there. You know I mean that, actually that still I could I love them. The summit with chrome. It is opposed to died from love covet right. Not once did he die with covert, who didn't I have covered the three hundred and thirty two million doses had been administered in the? U S, that's doses, that's doses. that means and end the number of yes so where, where were over Are we over half the population now know who quite over half of the unknown Some were there's a number anyway, I mean like you know. People would be like in the streets, that's like being given current like giving. There were thirty five million case. There were thirty five million diagnosed cases of covered the United States.

We ve given ten times that amount of vaccine people would like literally killing, we're in the streets from from from the consequences of the vaccine. If the vaccine were were deadlier lethal, wouldn't have number here, I'm right so fifty five point: one percent of the euro. Population have been given one does that the entire or just the population over it was so. It's asked me: the population of the age of twelve years over the age of twelve or over the edge on looking bloom arguments has of population, but then so so you know this is another thing about. This is we're looking at this? That's you know when you serve pullback little, it's kind of amazing to think about that So I don't know where we developed this vaccine by the time, July in other July. Fourth weak roles around from us.

ending start a hundred and seventy million people have got gotten a shot. They ve meant that manufacture enough vaccine and figured out how to administer enough faxing, get it to enough places. We all sit on long lines, suffer originally. Now you don't even have to do that. What is happening polarization like that before number it's kind of jawdropping when you think about it, and it's I, I think, that's where again

messaging point there? Their needs to now be a very clear distinction drawn between what we were in for the past year, which was a public health emergency lockdown. Although all the restrictions, all the emergency powers granted to elected officials were given, because we were in an emergency situation and what we were mainly looking out were case rates and death rate trade, we looking hospitalizations, we worry about having enough beds hidden and whatnot. All of that was legitimate to do. the pandemic is still going on. A global thing. It's still raging the public health emergency in our particular country is over and that is where I think you need to have a very clear message in strategy: ok, emergencies over the powers. We gave now need to be brought back to where they should be. All the things that were close are open. We're moving on However, we still have a pandemic virus that has to be managed going for. We cannot eliminate it and it's that zero zero covert that still seems, took up a lot of people and

and the denial of them. On the other side, the covered was ever that big a deal. Those two things are still wait you dominant, I think, in the cultural conversation about the pandemic right now, poorest, Johnson last week said We need to learn to live with covert, now he's a different kind of leader from Biden. Britain is a different a country that has a different kind of history of having its payment stirs. Do we now cold truth telling, as opposed to cheerleading, and all of that that Pseudo Churchill's he'd have Dunkirk speech and all about serve like the Europe depressing, the hell out of view about the horrors that face. You was like something: that's that's part of the british political tradition and really is not part of the american political tradition Biden. Somehow cannot probably say: look we're, never get more this thing so we're gonna have to live with it. The way we live with the flu and it's good

spark in this and that boy. Fortunately, we have a treatment for I that, but somehow the law Jack of zero covered has overtaken the way we talk. about all this like we need to winning means. Nobody would is about call having more and obviously that's just not gonna, be a thing for the decade like we're. Gonna have to worry about covered to the extent that rational people are gonna, have to go every year and get some kind of a covert shot. The way rational people get a flu shot. Maybe I'm I'm either on the data. They don't know yet little we are now starting again boosters true waiting. Could it could have a five year term they or you could make, may need to get a booster if there's a new variant or whatever, which is nine. This I'm just saying like we're, never were not going to be at a point at which there are twenty five cases of covert a day? What we need

get to the point of his not counting them emotionally gangs, why were no longer using the count as some kind of an you know where I mention it all the time and that women were served like trapped in this way? Are we getting to below ten thousand. Are we gain below ten thousand? You know it's like this artificial number that south she came up with. That is like the ten thousand steps thing. By the way, did you read this fantastic there's a little piece of the New York Times about ten thousand steps. You know, which is the thing with you- have up pedometers cracker, you know we have fit bed or something like that. Whole thing is, you need to get ten thousand steps today and where this number came from, so I then why it's so insanely arbitrary, just very quickly so ably I no longer savings in a long distance. He hasn't exercise theories, though, after the Tokyo Olympics Japan there was a fitness craze in Japan, and so

somebody design that aren't for their design pedometers and amateur. Had a logo made out of japanese characters that look like a man walking but their character. earth added up to and any a gram Armenia were either that would you, I mean I can't be I'm gap, I mean the characters in japanese which veto were in in those those languages. I guess her idiot romantic anyway, if you converted them into gimme a grams. It said ten thousand step man. Better than money man, I can answer that literally where it with their advertising slogan, blow go, but it wasn't. to be read, but this is literally where that number comes from so so FAO, cheating

thousand hours with the number of hours that the Beatles supposedly played to get to be great musicians, acquainted, Mountain Gladwell and now found she has set ten thousand as this kind of magic none for that. We need to get below to think that, with that we won so basin. What we need to do is to eliminate the number ten thousand from our lives at all and all in all places. Let me just pull back for a minute and talk to you guys about are advertiser. Aura look I usually about this change dramatically over the last decade, but security tools are mostly stayed. The same aura provides complete digital security. Tell protector online accounts, finances devices and more all in one easy to use. It provides digital security protection. It's all in one protection from identity theft. Financial fraud, malware, scam, site so much more with or you'll, get alerted to fraud and threats fast like if your online accounts are passwords were leaked online or of some interest open. A bank account

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Twitter, Google, all those are the three major ones you have to correct you and say he didn't file a lawsuit open. Your dinner launched a fund raising campaign because he says you just great he's arguing that the heat is. First, amendment rights have been violated by the big tech platforms, but, of course, at any is calling for the birds, the section two thirty to be declared unconstitutional, the one that provides. You know these private companies the right to monitor their own platforms. It's over. It's it's legally, absolutely a specious law suit, everyone who knows even then the first thing about how the law worked with regard to these platforms. Understand that and the fact that he carried it with a big fundraising person. You know push messages out to his followers to donate in and what not it? It's interesting though it does come at a time where there's a lot of antitrust discussion about the platforms, there is actually a lawsuit filed by the ages of many states

hence, Google and its app it uses apps on its part for their. There are plenty of legit lawsuits that are that are tackling the power of big tech. Trumps is just a start, and people should treat it with the with the respect any such done with deserve, but he's so. We should spell out that he said that you know his banning and the shadow banning of others, and all that is unconstitutional. They now violation. First remembered rights because it claims platforms or state actors, which rate our watchword. Some of you have to explain this very simply that the first amendment provides protection for speech. From prosecution or interference by the irish government? Yes, it is silent to totally silent on the question of speech right in regard to other private citizens, an obvious any effort by the way you could make the claim that any effort by

a court to limit Google or face a core twitters, whatever right to ban someone from the from a privately on platform, would itself Be an unconstitutional in action on their speech rights while in like I own. If you don't get the right to say whatever you want on my microphones, my microphone and there is that everyone from gives a huge number of problems with how these platforms actually dinner men. What is it isn't, misinformation or hate speech and went out in fact, I've I've spoken to someone who's serves, who served son Facebook sooner Supreme Court you're the one that that just recently decided that the term ban should last two years they they really are struggling with how to Facebook the company wants to out. First, legal ethical questions do this board and it does kind of take a hands off approach, but the problem is baked into how these platforms are. Were built, how they are used every day and their massive massive site,

globally, so I've been Trump is actually correct to be concerned about how these platforms monitor speech, but he's legally incoherent about the solution, and it is you know I why figures in some sense a winner for him, because his his diehards will send money and they love the issue. still literally. He looks completely week to me because he was president. There will be there, the as as president, he could have done things as far as it as a citizen, you now over sour grapes over his election laws, that's a very different story. I mean I am of seven he never minds about this. Obviously, there seems to be some kind of a then in force and and and unjust enforcement of

political standards against. Let's say way extremists as opposed the left wing extremists. In a week her about the banning of all kinds of right where's for promulgating false claims about the election, the inmates are like supporting January sex, whatever but you know what the Corey bushes still on twitter Clay, mean that you now America's making false claims about America, I mean I'm not saying, but I dont think Corey Bush should be man from Twitter and I really think Trump but be banned from twitter. Although Twitter is within his right, it says its facebook. to say: look if you want to use our platform, you can't walk around you,

like inciting riot like wee wee wee, are liable if people went to when to Washington on January gotten they got there in law, measures measure through the organizing power of our platforms and then stay it's the right. Let's leave and talking about the insurrection question or the overthrowing the government question just staged Iraq I had ended, ended up their developing a violent event. That was a riot that I e. If, if people who are listening to my voice, do not accept that at the very least. What happened there that you can watch it with her eyes was a was a riot that involve people resisting the legitimate use of organizing police force, to prevent the unlawful entry into buildings and beat people up and all that, then I don't know it.

save you gotta, listen to somebody else like you're embarrasses embarrasses me that you're, even you even think that we have anything in common, but I'm out met insurrection or whatever I'm just saying. If they say look, we we just can't be party to the The organization of events that led to riots or you know, or to violence. Ok, ok, I gotta interrupt. You did you take, shape, spoke has long known that it's exactly that if we look at a global context so that the most egregious case was in Myanmar were the military use Facebook to organise ethnic cleansing in the country, I mean everyone knew they were doing. It was very clear what they're doing Facebook was ringing. It says, oh, what can we do about this out? I don't know how this happened. They know exactly how it happened. There are ways that they can control this. They dont do it for a reason and in the end, I think that's why, though, the concern

A response in the backlash against big tax efforts to do this now with regard to Trump and and and other groups in the: U S, it rings hollow because we know facebooks record facebooks record on this is clear: globally: they really, they ve created a monster, they can't control and or they know how to control them, but they only do it selectively and that its the selective enforcement of their own regulations. I know that that is exactly the problem. Of course, there's something really tragic about this development, because, where this all started. Of course was this notion that the arab spring was the first real social media freedom explosion right that it was kind of organised. People knew where to go, what to do and in Egypt in Tahrir Square and all these places, because social media was used as as the as the flash point to inform people about how

about about how this was going and, of course, that was more like a heartening moments, right, a kind of like a we're vivifying moment of expression of human freedom and the desire for liberation. All that and then needed nine years are ten years later, you had email people storming the capital building so that that power originally harnessed. For you know what appeared to be positive purposes turns out to be morally neutral that it can be used by anybody in any way, if you're, not careful, which is in a kind of the story of all technology. What once away now exactly gather the gap peace will add more than bore the nuclear were the atomic energy or an atomic bomb right I mean it is, you know, as someone who also agrees that you know, Banning in general is better than the rest

they absolutely maddening about the fact that on platforms like Twitter, Someone conservative, who does does said, says something that could be very complicated Lee misinterpreted as bigoted, we'll get banned, but virtually every left wing anti Semite gets a free pass. Yeah. putting including the we now putting the leaders of IRAN Chart. I made that you ban, tromp and not ban the leaders of IRAN is a pretty striking fact, but I'm not to trick the owl you're, so mean to trumpeting. But you know I trump yes, where the day before yesterday, gave a speech in which he said which employ we said that the capital police of the cap- A policeman had murdered ash

Lee Bab at the woman who was killed during that during arrive, who shot during the right coming through the broken door. And said all of those who have been arrested and January. Six must be released from now. They know they mustn't like what what what what How is this like? I, as I recall, I was told that on the day of January six that trump they hadn't like the right. I mean that the wine of the Trump apologists was that he had come out here, they go home. He had said it was bad. It was a good thing and all of that- and now it seven months later and he is taking the cause of the height of the five hundred or so people who were arrested. Noakes, probably some of these arrests were preposterous. There was a story. Yesterday I sent you,

guys and rolling stone that some guy who they had some made. You know they had made his face through one of those facial recognition programmes and had a rescue them somewhere, and one of the things that that that they that they found in his home was it he had made the lego capital. You know that Lego has these buildings, you could make another Colosseum and the Empire state building, and you know my might. My kid has made out already met. He made the camera. Amber meaning a death star. My kinsman, that's already that seven thousand, that's very impressive. You made the desperate like seven thousand pieces, but you can the capital out of Lego, and so the idea was well. Maybe you'd made the capital of Lego in order to plan the insurrection, so that's bonkers. and disgusting and like that's where you start seeing how I a different kind of

moral panic and sees you no law enforcement agencies where they were that some word making Lego buildings and then the his making the capital is a sign that he was what was taken. Like tiny little email like little Lego figures and moving them through the lego capital. To see well aware, which hallway they could it's about, that detailed its votes on a million pieces and you can lift off the top and then you know, all things around its Lego building, slaughter scale among I trump but trumps, still saying that is actually important to know, because what? If what? If he's gonna start, arguing that lawlessness and violence on behalf of one's ideological cause is now suddenly, ok, because back cause was on his behalf. What does that mean about it

think he said about Anti far about the post, hurtful rioting and violence. None of that he's completely contradicting what I think was an important message for political leader to make out the time about some of those violent activities. It's all undermine now in and not surprising, but let us look where does it gives the game away riches that you like I'll. Let you know em in the end, people don't mind islands as long as is on their side or they say didn't happen or they say wasn't it was misunderstood or it was it was you know it? of rock or something like that. It was not yet that's what terms This actually saying right was that it was the January. Six was mostly fleece walk and it simply wasn't mostly be well, I mean I don't know the guy A sliding is insane just watch the footage we watched it in wield the ability of people to talk themselves out of what

is right in front of them, and that was happening right in front of them on a day and then because they don't like the political aftermath, you know should tell us something about the nature. Of reality and the how people perceive reality and how easy it is to change the past, That's a reality. When you don't really like it, you just sort of insists that reality. The reality wasn't what you thought it was were always were way. What was the David Hume said about reason. The passions I'm trying to remember, but it sort of like weeds does the hand made me, the passions. That reason is in the air, reason, reason is there to kind of circumscribed the passions, but it can't really. It often is used as there you know, as as, as has the the I'll just for the passions, and we always think that, as long as we can sort of like see things, I was even things back of it twice

minutes ago, right like that with dogs will get see things. Clearly, we can make a more rational calculation, but maybe that is something that we in our time is that's it. That's a delusional hope that they will take to go back to the platforms for a minute. One of the reasons it's easier to do that now, to construct alternative realities or to deny the reality that right in front of you is it the platforms on which people share them information and and talk about this stuff are driven by emotional appeal right. It doesn't matter if you're they just want an emotional reaction. Doesn't matter of its happy or sad? Actually, angry is ideal as your. or engage. They want engagement and engage. And is not a neutral thing when it involves pseudo violence and anger, or even when involves enthusiasm and happiness. It's all the same to the algorithm. Tat drives people to one to one leg on one page or another, and in that sense I do think that the new platforms are not quite as morally neutral in the same way as some of the previous technologies we divide

They are designed to appeal to the most basic reactions when That's a good thing for society or a bad thing. They are designed that way. They are not designed to be neutral about those emotions they want. Engagement. Engagement is often a negative thing if its driven by anger and paranoia and fear row bomb you no time to talk about the exchequer. we got. You only have a couple of days. You got a couple of days until that price increase up entirely about for the Ex chair. The blood Super car of office chairs the one at that only looks great, it feels amazing and it so comfortable. You can sit for hours and our feel uncomfortable. It's that pet patented dynamic. Variable, lumbar support, offering unbelievable, supports your lower back and its new Ella MAX feature and cooling. He'd emphasise therapy imagined

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We have much more to say amazingly enough they got anything to say most would allow. We need that we need to talk. For another couple minutes. I will not ending on an ad well I too will have to reconvene tomorrow to see what the binding says about Afghanistan. I guess he's there their meeting tonight to talk about strategy and in communicating to the public about that could even be deflected software. Thinking back about what I just said, so you guys know that term by many people. Listen to me over the years. Now that the the odd couple is my favorite all time, favorite tv show was tongue, Randal, Jack Clubman, and I was I read a book at the making of the odd couple end I sitcoms always had this problem, which is that there was a commercial break. around the twenty second twenty third minute and then come back for like a minute and a half and then run the brunt of it.

Credits and then ads for the next show, and so the amazing the ended the show before that outbreak, because the plot had to end so there was this coda and they always had to figure out something to do. With the coda am reading about how they mostly cod in the end and am Randal improvised, jokes or bits Waiting to what has just happened, you know involving one of them being sloppy and the other being when the other being fat fastidious and they maybe a hundred and ten episodes or something, and they manage to pull something off. So maybe in the future, we can do about it. leaving the states instructions. We just women to improvise a better ending if we, if we, if we get to that point, but the the odd couple, I believe now on paramount plus by the way, if you want to watch The greatest of also comes. I don't even know if it is encouraging that I saw in my

You know teens twenties and it was very much a me your show, and so there was redolent of their edges comforting. Now, I'm not you know, I I find it company, but by been that's basically why you know enjoy watching any old tv most there is much more complex than it is quality. Ok, got one for you so this weekend, I'm I'm I'm out the beach, and we had some friends over at at at our house at the beach. and it turned out that they had never seen what is universally can almost universally concern? The greatest of all said: come episodes witches, Mary. Telling worship chuckles bites the dust which is an episode about how the the clown on the tv station method cast all works for W J M is the is the grand marshal of the parade

town and is dressed up as a p not and is crushed by an elephant and am so I've seen it years. I told him about it. There, like a dog while I don't know why I like that, show people sure, like ten years younger than I am, and so actually found it and sat down M M and watched it, and it is One of the funniest thing as I have ever salmon again, have probably seen at fifteen times, and I crying laughing again. Again and again and again then. So if you haven't seen that I cast it was either on Hulu or unparalleled plaza made was on Hulu chuckles bites the dust if you watch it and you don't think it's funny email me and tell me that I will

I will insult you the way I saw people who don't. I also feel that we can. Then we can. We can kind of welcome chuckles bites the dust into our metaphor, library that we often deploy. Wait as it is it is. It stands up as one saying it's almost fifty years old and the end. It is some as I but, like I think, lay unlisted like entertain weekly, doubtless aware now, it's like of the hundred tops had come episodes at it. It almost always ends up as the as the norm as the number one, it is almost fifty years old and it bit that it remains just in out the work of a K.

describe that cause its black comic, but it isn't. But it is of its really about how we feel about death and they give it a shot. So that will be back to bar for aid and Christine I'm John ports. Git to camp apartment.