Welcome to the Commentary magazine Daily Podcast. Today's rub able? Third, twenty twenty, I'm John Pub Words the editor of Commentary magazine with me as always senior editor, a remote John associated no Robin High Noah. I jump and senior writer Christine Rosen High Christine her job. So I find myself once again in a condition of cognitive, dissonance and cognitive events as this, which is that I believe, reading a very closely into the statistics in New York City

that there is some evidence of good news and that a corner is being turned. Although when I say that that doesn't mean that there aren't gonna be horrific mortality totals next week in week out and it doesn't mean that the case load in the United States is going to drop, merely that there is evidence that the social distancing is working by the fact that hospitalization numbers are not increasing from what from what I can tell from the tables, and that suggests that the you know that the extreme measures that have been taken are having a fact and that, therefore they should really start showing a positive trend in the other direction. After the really tough couple of weeks, as the president said were about to So? I believe there is no reason to feel good about what might be coming.

There is reason to feel good that the measures that we have been told we need to take our ends are our work in the in the long run a that job with what you ve been so like. What haunted by the stats does that job with what you're saying yeah. Pretty much. I mean I even I can waiver back and forth a day to day it that that does seem to be the case, and while we also haven't really seen the exponential growth in DES there was one day. I think that that were debts seem to have doubled, but that that hasn't continue to happen at all. Even the when that happens, the news was You know our now doubling every twenty four hours, but it's not every twenty four hours,

so yeah, but I I continued the date I think looks somewhat promising. You know that the problem with it is that you're still talking about the growth of the spread, but its slower growth right, but it still growth and that's what makes it hard to to serve get enthused about yeah. Well again, there these serve as it is a question of whether or not lemme, see and what the purpose of the flattening of the curve is to create the can missions, under which the virus will last longer in the country, and will not go away as quick as it will not go away quickly, but where the the the the it doesn't all happen at once, it's not it's not that the entire country finds itself. A wash in this disease and dying and people dying from this disease.

Now it's more manage pole horrible to save more manageable. If it. If it follows a Europe that you call it like a wave pattern, rightward just goes along then, and then dissipates well say about precisely as say one. It does actively encouraging thing. I've also seen as more coverage and and as it as a reader. I appreciate this more coverage of the people who have recovered from the virus, who left the hospital who ve been taken off, ventilator survived and sort of talking to them following up with those people. Saying how you feeling what's going on, I mean at too So all we were talking about where the people who were dying and- and that's it I mean it's important- ought to honour that Audi. But I also think we are gonna because This is happening and wave. Some of the people who are going to be in the hospital two weeks from now are still seem perfectly healthy, but a lot of people hoop and coming through the health care system are now

going home their recovering. We ve seen that with a few celebrities that have been covered, but I think I would love to see more stories about those Americans who had serious about with it and then got home and how they're doing what their prognosis is long term. So I start what we spend a lot of time. You re talking about world after you break and we're talking about how individuals will navigate that environment. But I started a thing gets today about instant. Emissions, particularly the really hard hit ones like in the service sector? So and I'm probably the only person who doesn't have a really strong opinion on on all of these scenario?

I am sure everybody is I've. I've been counter has an extremely strong opinion about one of these three scenarios, but I believe there are three scenarios at the end of this thirty day period, at least on the EAST coast and in places like Texas in Florida just and implemented these thirty. They stay home orders this week. So after that thirty day period, I can see all of these things happening and all of them, I'm pretty sure, would make perfect sense to meet one. An extension just continues in Devon to the restrictions are lifted and doesn't sister to open up, but there is a real stigma associated with actually patronising them. They don't want you to go out. They don't want to spend money, they don't want you to congregate in places with more than ten people said. The real contradiction there and the third is everybody. Opens up and they are desperate to get you in the doors. Please come, please do business, we need you all of those seem like really reasonable scenarios to me at this point from a public health standpoint, though, which,

the most appealing to the moderate, with the Middle one, that this economic health standpoint is to shut the country down for seventeen consecutive months, not move and have no economic activity whatsoever and keep us many people who have as possible. That would lead to a future mental health crisis. I think to all its, not the public policy outlook, it's the public health that look, and there is a real discrepancy from when you hear politicians which have actually consider the concern themselves with a variety of other concerns of them. Look how and the public health experts for whom there is one concerning one concern only and there is no measure to draconian in order to achieve that objective. Well, so we where we, where, where these are the pattern of exponential growth appears to be holding to some extent, is in the total number of cases across the country

what that means is that there is more testing and what that means is also soap. We know who has. It doesn't also means that them, that's mostly but I also suggests that the very essence of the disease is quite isn't quite what we feared. You know like one of these murders or Sars, or something Hadda, seven percent more How will they re like it was like her fine. You know this appears to be anywhere. In that even only in that that realm, which is also which is also good news, obviously- and ah- but you know if you watch this in this house- that these two time frames are what so disturbing because you watch it in this, some real time than time slows down. So it's like oh good, the Vienna, the growth

slowing and that's all we are really going for here is too slow the growth but you know that's not good, not you in terms of how much longer we will have to contain to be more draconian, the nod and stayed home measures because the slow rain and the like John, I haven't seen him in death. I haven't. I haven't seen the exponential growth in infections. I've ever seen. The growth its. It grows little ever and when I say a little it's it's. You know several ten thousand, but but that's been somewhat consistent now for, while from the bar charge that I've seen answer just have been moving up very gradually. But the modem in question is whether that's measured by an increase in testing organised, an increase in actual infection rates, the community spread within them within a dinner.

The last couple of days, and I think I saw some data to suggest that the testing raiders slowing, but don't call me on that because I actually can. Whereas I reckon I mean that's where we're all privy to these days is exponential, increasing Well, I mean I, you know it's a month ago there were zero cases, and now there are two hundred and forty five thousand cases or something like that in the United States, that's So I that's all I mean, I'm not. You know absolutely yeah man on a daily serve. No, I mean by the way if, if it were executed,

on a daily basis of that sort. It's one of those things where, after sixty days, the entire planet would be dead. I'm indefinite problem with using the term exponential growth is that right is that their lives. They can't be exponential growth, because real exponential growth would would mean you know that before you knew it, every everything on earth would be decimated itself. Why that makes me laugh, I don't know what is wrong with me. I am. I am so sorry, so what what I think is beginning to a nerve me about. The response is something that No one has pushed buttons on, which is this, On the one hand, we need a it I'll

Maybe national response. That is, you know far reaching better than anything we ve ever seen that will do you know where show a perfect knowledge and use all the understanding to go on here and there and fix everything up and on the other hand we are so today. I believe we will see today the concept fences of the notion that the federal government is an effective and efficient organisation in the beginning of the programme to provide relief to businesses which from what one can read involved the impasse I of banks to serve as partners too, create the conditions under which these loans for small businesses, in particular the forgivable loans, can be handed out. Apparently, with absolutely no input from banks and no sense of what they

I and how banks we're gonna function and how many people were gonna, be available to process these forms and all of it and so you don't want once we see here the the credible. Irony of this are the Jacobin wing wanting to nationalize everything in the classic Socialist Communist fashion and the evidence where is, is gonna start being thrown in all of our faces about how their response here was is and will be incredibly incompetent and end the pan. I said that engenders. Do you know me like that? Our friend Jim Pethokoukis, who writes for commentary at Times- and today. I is practically frantic with notion that you know unless all the money is out the door yesterday we are where we are headed, frayed depression, that we cannot get knotted

a momentary recession that will be yellow pent up demand will shoot the growth rate after it's all over to twenty seven thousand percent, like that were too about a mess? A kind of an unprecedented mess economy shuts down getting everything started up is marketing. So simple stuff that we talked about yesterday, no know who, if people don't have to be rendered affected and landlords or people who have two or three apartments and they go broke, trying to pay the gas will what happens to them, and you know the kind of cascade of of of of disaster, and that's that's my that's. That's the crushing ferocity for me today, but we ve been told that,

Checks are gonna, be in people's hands in two weeks, are only just now ripe to posit only direct apposite when, according to the embassy in his report that was released yesterday, if you need a paper check, you might get in five weeks, because that's it big difference. That's a big difference, yes, and as my fellow member who knows why why? Why would be five weeks? nonsense. Five months, I'm sorry, I write well yeah, that's that's the worst scenario case or some right there. Of course, a lot of this is to try to make sure there is, and fraud and people do steel, Adele and all of that all which is very nice and understandable. But, as I keep harping on you know, when you need to just poor dollars now down, down a whole lot of it's gonna get wasted. What what are you gonna? Do: Thou Henriette, Malta that the phrase throw money at the problem us

that some of the money you're throwing is gonna, be you're just going to disappear into the wind. But it's still something unique into do. I didn't realize it said that many months to an end, but who are least who are most likely to need that those check right away, are the ones who are likely, also least likely to have direct depositor, maybe do their banking outside traditional banking institutions and whatnot. So that is worrisome. Yeah. Well, I don't have anything. Tat had been saying this for now it feels like months, but it's only been two or three weeks that dumb and help people who are in the service industries in the service sector- and I don't mean financial services in providing services to people on a one to one basis that they have never been able to afford.

Economic shut down. The most of them have not shut down. The shutdown has been imposed on them only recently, as of institutions have been closing up and has been some more policing power on the ground. From where I am sitting, there is some there's more actual authority, apparently in Lithuania, in police officers, hands to disperse people and to curtail activities, economic activity. So Get out something! That's that's now: it's not avoidable for a lot of people and they needed money and in two weeks ago, and then I can have it for what basically a month you're gonna be alarmist bills. This does jobs with the result of peace in the times today about how those Americans who have shut in the long, it is then most effectively tend towards the upper income Bracket because it's it's. It is a bit of a luxury to be able to stay home

from work and not worry about. How are you going to pay your bills, Harry Gonna, buy your food and what not but the other internet coiners them the people who employ those people who this is what the small business lowness foreigners You know you, you might have made three hundred thousand dollars last year in income, but you also employ two or three people who are facing a lay off, because you can't afford to pay them in a month and those are the people who need bailouts do an assistant two and seven skinheads it's hard to get your head around that sort of thing, but its necessary to work to bail out everybody. So what is ok? again. I think you know tv, I ask now, I'm sorry, I've got a of one thing I wanted to the the

the inability of our political moment to transcend our political moment continued yesterday with I couldn't watch it cause. I was doing other stuff up with my family, but you know the sum trumpeted trumps day a briefing featuring Jared Cushion and others that patently went on for two. Whereas in ten minutes and about I watched it on Twitter and airlines way out. This is crazy. What the hell going on here. This is not so terrible it so awful than that like it so long. Why is it so long he's going on so want? So now we at a time in which the presidency takes a standing answering or talking or doing with a bunch of people, for two hours a day and now that's bad. So that's that's terrible because he, you know Kiki, isn't what he's talking too much

it's too hard for people to take. I wanted to stop talking, and this is we're talking about a lead opinion here on Twitter. I'm not talking about you. No ordinary people will I jeez. Let me get back to you know watching what It is. I want to watching the Tiger king that so The general view that we need to take over the government needs take over the economy and nationalize Amazon and nationalize use industries to make mats and ventilators and do all this and the present shut up and not go on television and not not answer. Reporters questions for two hours am, I am I am I mean that's it filtered through the insanity of twitter right, but I mean it's real. I mean it That is eight, that is a real body of opinion in the United States among the american elite. Among the meritocracy, so I was trying to trying to figure to turn

myself inside the mind of whoever decided to put Jared Kirshner front and said here yesterday and I mean that with a bit ripe at the zoo, maybe actually was a little concerned about press conference fatigue. You know people not wanting, and maybe he just thought this would be a better face, ought to put on this problem. He loves to throw Jared it that complicated problems, because for some reason he The german Kirshner is capable of solving them all evidence to the contrary. Notwithstanding. So I wonder whether he did the idea was. Oh, it won't just be me. Look. We have all these you better. Yet he hasn't had pen speak as much as I thought he would to be honest, so he loves to push Jared. So I can. I can see the logic that might have compelled him to put him forward I have to agree with a lot of criticism. I actually found it far less reassuring listening to Jared Kirshner speak, I just I just don't don't as someone who has the competence to handle this, and is actually kind of

undermining some of the previous messaging. The administration made about its own competence by saying what we have just started. Look at it. That is that there were some Pierre. Gaffes. I would say if he was the pr face of this new have caused Keyser one thing: a defensive yards competence our Arab and did a good job on Israel right well, I mean, but what I think again there's an interest, aspect to this, which is, if you want to know how it's going Trump, the trouble administration is providing Us with a view into the people who are handling this crisis? If you want to judge them badly at based on how Jared conducted himself after conference, you are only able to do that because Jared was at the press conference. A word doing it behind the scenes in competently and terribly and had no idea that that was the case based on you know, unless there were hot hostile leaks or something like that

so it's it's all. There is all in front of you and people can judge, it can judge it as they were, as they will look. There's a there's. A panic response here too right, because this is a great thing about the administration is, is what normalcy feels like fifty so at the grasp of grasping from a sense of normal thing, it's a lot of sense, because we are seeing a lot of contradictory messages from pinions Elite opinion Quarters Justice morning on two stories on the first is the arrival of the comfort this hospital ship in New York when it was announced that this will rise, its design was to take pressure.

The hospital system to treat traumatic injury because every hospital facility, every research hospital, every university hospital everything in the New York City area has been converted to treat one malady, so they don't have capacity to treat a heart attack, their own capacity to treat you if you cut your finger off and that's what the comfort was supposed to do, and that was said at the time and now it arrives, and it has only taken on I finally supplying gang and LE patients, none of whom are covered positive and the reaction from the political press. An elite opinion has been apoplectic, garment rending. Why isn't this hospital ship doing It needs to do so desperately to take this I'll. Take these patients off the hospitals hands on it is simply not designed to do that. They should say maybe it shouldn't, but it's not as though we were informed about that, and second there's a piece by David Ignatius today in the Washington Post, speculating on the origins of this flu as coming out of potentially this flu research facility.

By a lab facility, not that it was Jew and bioengineering as a by a weapon, but maybe it came out of this thing accidentally because there's some discrepancies about where it showed up and how close it was, the hospital, how many cases you had in this wet market and where they were located Mohammed account, but sorted does vindicate to an extent people act on cotton who were ascending. Look. This public came out of a lab really dangerous thing. You got to get on top of this really early and late response to his vindication, partial indication has been going too well. At least he could have said it in a way that you know it didn't make me feel like he was a crank conspiracy theorist going to. He was right, but he was right in the wrong way accepts. He didn't sound like a crank and spear. He said good night. He did not say that it was engineered in the lab to kill millions of people. That has already said he said there was. There is a propinquity issue between

the wet market and the lab, and something might have happened, and we need to see if there is an answer to that question. That's all he said. Annie South America. Hannah should get out now, and that was what you that was. That was the third week of January, or something like that, any advice environment which right around the state Department It was good advice and it was covered as Tom. It's very own right right, Well, that's what we're saying now. As you know, it was hysteria. I was right, it's just it was wasn't it does. The facts were defensible, but the way it was said was really an appropriate one about the comfort narrative, which I agree with Noah, that it was when I read about that ship in the this sort of just basic news reports. Worse, and it was for trauma overflow for all the reasons that no allayed out, because the hospitals are trying to convert in order to cover cases that's not how it was sold by tromp. So I think, some of the confusion here,

he kept a sacred settling the ship were sent in Asia and I think it's totally their stand above the lot Americans assumed it was a after seeing images of Renault know busy. But also it was for that purpose of their again. It's like through these opportunities for clarity that are just a bolder is over, and so that's what my suspicion of Jared Cushion being able to clarifying this messaging comes from. That will be a minute Russia has been sending people on background to trash the members of the administration that that are doing a good job like at ever as very on the chin from unnamed officials quoted in the printing press the other day. I think I last week, pence got a couple of nasty quotes from people familiar with close to associated with, and that comes out of the White House and probably comes from people around the president. Like jirga sure yeah, I ices. I find the entire question of the infighting you know. I mean, of course, is in fact

There's got to be burned block that administration. There is definitely a burn book, but we are, of course tabby was about this. We have, of course, there's in fighting win win. In crises. There was always infighting because all policies have a trash element to the right. I mean all policies are, if you do this, you can't do that and the person who thinks maybe you should, this has a very good argument that you should do this, because if you don't do it ex terrible thing, happen, and then there is an argument on the other side. It says no do this because of you don't do it. Why terrible thing will happen and there both right, I mean you know that There are choices that are going to be made that have that have a deleterious consequences. The choice to flattened the curve is a choice to prolong, the time that the disease will be present in the United States, thereby crippling the economy worse because it won't be slow there.

Won't be able to be fast, it will be slow and the whole notion of letting up and letting movie theatres reopen or schools reopen or anything like. That is simply the possibility. And then we get to the interesting thing which I now remember that I was we're going to talk about yesterday and then I forgot and and then you didn't remember, because you can't read my mind, which was told question of the resurfacing of the virus in the fall right, which is which is. The secondary nightmare scenario that you know It doesn't really go away and then, if it comes back and ravages us again and that what we are really doing now in part is learning the lessons of how to handle this so that we are prepared in September when we have a bunker and hung

down again well and out. You know that again, anecdotally, but that I have heard from people who workin on college campuses that that's it it's an open discussion, kept quiet among many strainers about how that might be something they need to begin preparing for right. So everyone's been sent home, but will these the return and will will our universities will higher education still have to function virtually the same, obviously for Fur Kids in elementary in middle and high schools do so it's it's a huge logistical question for people. I have to start making decisions, and we all joke like please, God don't cancel summer camp has turned out to be a lot of parents who really you know who's it's you dig it out in the woods for two weeks and whose parents into break from the virtual, but that's nothing compared to if we have to continue this virtual start learning in the fall right. So ok, so talking about this whole thing, the

The be clear information is that we will create a new set of protocols during this period right we'll get testing the poor will know who has it will know how to diseases ideology? Worse, all little better will understand what to do, whose most at risk blah blah blah We still are going to press up against the fact that we are not South Korea. We are not a country where people are going to be comfortable, have The government monitor your location on your cell phone. I mean that is how South Korea control the spread of the as if you were somebody who had it. You had a scar but letter on your phone and, if you venture Behind your have beyond your house, a cop came to your house and hit you with a truncheon. You know something right now

I mean I can deal Now- human- maybe maybe six months of this- will change the national character. To the extent that this will seem like an acceptable thing, and certainly not if you are part of the health establishment that that no is talking about it Anthony Falchi. That probably sounds great you would you need to do it to the South Korea the same way saying: well, we can shut the entire economy than thou little stop the spread of disease, but its outcome. That short of those measures. There's anything you could do better recurrence, I mean you: can you can have tests ready Well, you can, then, maybe I Singapore has just done some ports just reintroduced lockdown measures, because it's coming back. That's probably what's gonna be the case, and this is what I'm running on today as these some everybody passports, which is what you carry and Germany have appealed to and so

really just envisioning the prospect of caste system, with substantial incentives to become infected just that when one October, the budget. There is one point that occurred: moonshine talking the anticipation of a fall recurrence of this means you can forget, out of e shaped come back for the economy. Right I mean you can't you can see what words canst just start for the summer and then shut down. Again I mean you: can you got there it will be enough. It'll be ineffectual right, our it's like. Ok, everybody go out for a month's, because in September world that, above all, we all have go into hiding again, I look. I

again we are in a we where an uncharted territory here and we need. We don't know how this works. I don't see how I just don't understand how, in the since a million people dead. People are just gonna let this go on. You know at some point. People are gonna say I will die. I'm gonna take my chances, I'm sorry, you know I've done I'm I've been a misery rated. I've lost my small business I'd this, I'm that you know you can I'm not gonna live like this ok, but this is what concerns me about that feeling, which is completely understandable, and I think each of us is expressed that at some point already in this process that feeling with this question of, are we going to be like? Korea, because I can well imagine a lot of people making what this is an ethical compromise to make to say you know what we can't keep looking like this. We can keep shutting down the

the way to a kind of have some level of or sense of control. How to track people in to do these tests to see who's got immunity and who doesn't- and so you know it's not really our way civil liberties Weis, but we'll just have to do it even suggesting that that is possible for a month or two. Once I mean it's is c a c o ass for forgiveness, not permission right, I mean once those things are in place. It's gonna be extremely hard to roll them back once the government- and this is a non partisan concern once people in power see, level of granularity with which they can track individual citizens. Who's gonna want to give up that power, certainly not the USA or or the FBI, and I invite we ve seen this. Pass in a less crisis type situation with DNA, right, dna databases were originally supposed to be for violent offenders, it was not going to spread now. There are still there states now, where you can get cheeks walk when you're pulled over did not even arrested like you didn't you can be

an input into a federal database. So I I definitely am going to the tinfoil hat person end of the spectrum on this, but it really concerns me that we might have that understand. Oh a compromise that we're gonna be willing to make in the fallen. I think we have to be very careful about the kind of about establishing protections if we do decide to go down there You know Jim Jim guarantees that are really funny thing. He said you know we are willing to surrender their civil liberties as long as we don't know about it, no matter what life like at the this, or that wireless wiretapping is fine, it's all secret, so we don't even know if their wiretapping us or not, and why would they wiretap me right now, isn't wiretap me I got no. You know I'm a dogma. Mechanic and Netherlands him high on your right. But of course that's not true in the case this, where every any any of the three thirty three billion people in the United States would be a carrier. You know there is. There is no and so

The idea that there is a salvation that there's an easy salvation of some sort to be and in all the learning that we're gonna have so that were prepared for the next one flies and face of our national character and I dont know I don't know what's were. As I say what gonna give is. You know people have lived candy, Mix are horrible things, but civilizations have lived through them and we're gonna live through this, and I you know I will do this for two months, but I'm not doing it for six and an you're all crazy. You know tat. I and this is where, as I say, the Good NEWS is the bad news. Is the Good NEWS will be- and I don't even see this disaster you been telling me about you know I don't see the disaster like they're, good, that the death toll isn't season.

Do you know, nightmarish and then saying well, guess it's working in a guiding us super ghoulish of thought, but it's one I'm never less going to express the idea here now we're getting to the point now were famous people are dying. Were people know people who have passed individuals in seeing my cousin died and my father in law that's the way, I'm we're seeing that now. So it's no more, it's no longer abstract, but you're, also not seeing the psychological, I think the psychological effect of mass death as creating the conditions to leave to this self isolation in for the foreseeable future preacher in perpetuity. I don't see that kind of terror, even as

seeing the bodies pile up now, maybe that changes- maybe it doesn't change well, meaning, is supposedly we ain't seen nothing yet I know and maybe it s so many errors that everybody's nominally paralyzed the next year. If the narrow, maybe it rang, reflect right, but I may add, think it could be bulks like you can have you can have half the country verify that half the country in I mean that you know it's not. Everybody does have have the same emotion and as I keep saying you know, I think it's extorted Mary, how not only compliant but how operative and willing by the American. People appear to be in in in going along with this, so you know it's. It is the exception, rather than the rule that somebody opens up a bar in the Bronx or something like that and gets busted. You know that is not the way things are going up a there's, every

occasionally Americans and New Yorkers and people and were HANS. Our are rising to the occasion of doing this of inconveniencing themselves, not only because there they fear for disease them themselves, their families, but because they understand the larger social implications of it. But you, that will not last improper to just won't last in perpetuity. I think that the scheme The thing about you can't live with that fear in perpetuity right I mean you can get with the idea that any day a moment. I could get this virus I or kill my mother. I mean you again, you can do it for two months, but you can't live that high pitched state of anxiety forever. You have to put it to you. Side or you will go insane war.

That's ok! But this is that the scary thing about the the scenario the Christine describes about government tracking and what not, I think, the fear and the anger manifests in this demand like to be sort of protected. Take care of me do more, and that is the only way if, if there is any way that you get to a situation like so some version of a cell Brian enforcement. Here, why don't ya, but it two in the old in previous areas that fear that you're talking about John and that that that inability for it to continue, I mean people, did you say. What with death at their door in a much more frequent presence. That's where we have Memento Morey right people would literally paint death into into beautiful landscapes. As a rum concert, reminder, and as a way to kind of cope with that extremely human feeling we as modern text

Braddock and in an hour all of our cases. It extremely fortunate leads. Our have largely lived our lives without that that sentence, and I think Everyone's feeling that now in our modern society in some way doesn't have as many coping mechanisms as previous areas did and that's actually both a testament to the great progress we have made us as civilization, but it. But it's also a testament to some moral weakness that I think is, is it we should have extreme sympathy for and that a lot of the hostility and and the feeling that a bit describing about wanting to feel protected is now directed at the state when it's Not even the appropriate outlet to be appealing to drug well, if we are As I say, you can have both responses, you can have half the country in the help me protect me save me and I'm you know I am time incapacitated by terror and the other half leave me alone. Let me go. Let me be.

I mean that is the kind of that is the America divide that mean that is the good. I can call it Democratic Republic it, but you could call it some kind of, front, years been verses, our urban community area and or something like that like until that thou, but the boats will be true I mean it, I'm wondering ass if the postman eleven experience as an indication goal have theatrical efforts to assuage concerns that just become background radiation that, at the time were rather onerous national guardsmen. I ain't stations in the transportation, security administration, egg, another pat downs in the airports, and so you can see sort of aversion and that taking hold for the next seventeen eighteen twenty months, depending on how long it takes to market a vaccine like restaurants open up, but you can only have twenty people in their time. Well, look. There was a thing that happened yesterday in Pasadena.

Ok, here's an in and out Burger in Pasadena. There were people online at the Inn and out burger, and evidently they weren't standing six feet apart and a helicopter car police helicopter flew over them and and and on the loudspeaker said disperse like it I'll hang up get away from their come on. People go home like that ferry Skynet. A helicopter from above is why king to see who is on line at the imminent Berger, and while you can do that, for a little while, but if you think this is not a european country, this is not South Korea. This is that this. This is so does such violence to our dna,

and again we swear self governing society. Other countries are not necessarily those people work for us. We don't work for them. Just as I said yesterday, Trump works for us. The politicians were press found. She is a public employ Burke the cops or public employees. They are not our bosses, and that is not just a fiction, that's not just as a convenient fantasy. That is a real truth about the mirror about about american society. Apes just that eyes I witnessed at my own chilling Robocop almond here in the city, there was no helicopter, but I passed there are people online, I think, fairly.

Doing there doing their social distancing best for whole foods, and am I pity car went by with the recorded message blaring out of the speakers. This is the New York police because of the health emergency. We urge you to keep x number of feet away. Thank you for your cooperation and it was end but united. The the other chilling aspect about it was that, aside from the people online for them for whole foods that this message was being broadcast, it really. No one the streets were empty yeah. I mean even that in some sense, that's because its impersonal, it's a little more anodyne right. It's not it's! Not a cop is flying around looking for people to disperse right decide this

something say something you see: another translations are as yet. No that again also is a part of that, but that fits with the dna of Self governing society that Europe's citizens, the way I know even talking about whether someone says all you're not standing, sixty depart like another citizen, yes or like Kirby, occur. Byron we see as a moment where somebody comes up you and orders you to stand six feet apart from somebody else, and then you get into a fight with them or something like that. I'm But that is that's. That's a person you're a person that is not enough, already figure ordering you to do something. That is not that they don't we. We have the moral or political or legal right to order you to do at bloodshot yeah. I think the terrifying things there are people out there, and I know them. I knows who are sufficiently scare that when they hear that story they'll say good, they should be doing that. Well, what are these people doping at at inapt burger. You know we need more of that right will. That's all

that that there's a divide there is there's a lot of people who want. You know you know who, what they like the nanny state. It's not like. They don't like it. People love the nanny state when when, when it is what it is deployed in ways that they think are to the to their benefit, you know tat. This is not a small love. Anti smoking, you loved them up the board, Coney in the Anti Smoking law, the better. If here you know, if you're a certain type of non smoker, I am a non smoker and I don't like any other. Nonsense. But you know what I'm saying I mean like there's does that that seems like a political divide that might even define, twenty twenty. In the event that these two camps- fine avatars in the president and the democratic nominee- was that's. That's a weird shuffle, though, because the president is the President, like all of this stuff is coming from the way

how's. He can't then turn may is quite clearly and one can behavior, but he does. He signal. I think now is right here signals to people who would be skeptical and suspicious of these kinds of things that I really secretly on your size have to kind of do this cuz. You know this house, you guys telling me I need to. I mean there isn't there is that he's playing a certain double game here? It's true, except that if Biden is clever, he can say, look measures are all terrible, but you know what, if I were in charge of all would have all been overrun may, because I would have done it in jail He he doesn't know what the hell he's doing and he's the reason that you're in jail he's the reason therein. Competence is why this is happening and if somebody else had been president, this wouldn't have happened, and that's you know again it's

You know you can say well these trumped sympathetic to me that I dont want to be in this condition, but Biden can play that game too. I think, might this quarantine advanced? The common good now wishes perhaps we should look. There were the societal benefits that crew as a result of extreme- immigration and being locked in with your family for protracted periods of time. While we have we ever a peace coming out in our next issue, which will close next week by you, while within on this very subject and whether or not there are circumstances under which you can say that something. There will be a positive than that that comes out of this may be sort of like an understanding of the silliness or by the how our politics gotten silly and the issues we obsess over, are totally meaningless, basing given the seriousness of

which we are now going to be confronting or thinking about these sorts of things Lee lead on after this other pandemics and things like that. But I You know, I think, that's it. That's that's a wish more than it is a hope, more than is predicted reality, because you know I do in terms of individual families, though I mean and again this is it Mcdonald has just my experience at my sons. Are gonna, be much better cooks and be able to keep house alone. The name of without rice Endemic when there are ways in which the old notion of a family as an economic, and a social unit which used to exist just by nature of the of the kinds of the structure of society we for it. To that. In some ways, at least those of us lucky enough to be able to do from home now there, but there is that this sort of bond between parent and child, although in our kids, do drive us out, sometimes is being dead. Transfer

during this moment of crisis, in a way that I think, could have long term benefits for families. But but you know what is being done, has formed in the in the opposite direction and will and will definitely last two to some significant degree afterward is there is going to be a huge increase in telecommuting to work? Yes, you learn of ebbing with some of court. Not everyone's gonna stay home toward bread, but it's it's gonna leave that as it as an effect. You know, because four headed in that direction already right. Well, you're, the only thing I can really say about the blow: the family cohesion. As you know, again, we are a country in which was a fifty percent people no longer have children or something like any known. A lot of people don't have kids a lot of people don't get married anymore. I don't have kids that True, you know too generations ago.

True now, and so that positive is something that will be experienced by people who are reminded that conditional, in fact their isolation. Their own. Families might be relatively extreme if they can't visit their parents they re are told they can't. You know it may be the main family connection. The day that they have you no going to their parents on sound Sunday. For for you now for some form of posts, church dinner or lunch or whatever you know, it's a that's, a very serious thing to lose I gather that another. Just that's a very that's, really that's an important caveat to what I said in that as its speaks to what aid has been mentioned. The broadcast over the last few weeks, which is the debts of despair, concern long term, because more and more Americans live alone than ever at any point in our history and so that the long term effects. Of course you can, You can live alone and not be lonely, but what we ve seen

from the data on death of despair is that there are plenty of people who are lonely. Because they live alone and you're in I doubt it's going to be a challenge, yeah and- and I think our stories that we here in New York about people who are dying in hospitals and their loved ones not being allowed to be there? hold their hands as they go out again. Is that really gonna stand? I guess it will stand. It certainly will stand for the time being, but if you now I mean that the long terms psychic consequences of that for the people who go through it and are just going to be I mean high too hot. You can't even you, Canada, they make sense of it. You know you have the fact that you know that this is a serb interruption in the

process of you know, grieving and moving on, and all that that you know end up in a kind of psychic loop in which you never really able to get out of it. I you know at the worst of it anyhow so boy this this. Why? a show that you really wanted to turn into a feed. Read it. I should have claimed that the sooner you yes, yes, if we ever zoom Christine will not only I assume that you will do and a Kido deference on one of her son. Exactly know. What do we have like? One fun question may be from a listener that we could the end with. We do have one fun, I'm a literal, a new one. And it was one we are basically workin out last night on our offline text read and as for you, John from Eric Curse, which I think its courage.

John, which Broadway Musical is most overdue for a revival. I would vote for, maim last seen on Broadway and nineteen eighty, three ok, I will has a great score. It's an unreliable show. It has very, very, very peculiar, both sexual and racial politics Eta would mean that it would be extremely discomfitting to see now as opposed to what Pygmalion maternal dies. Every three trust trust me on this one: a gag. Probably, never see maim, and so, if you, if you, if you go, see the absolute renders movie with loose he'll ball in one of the worst performance has ever given as maim. But you will see why what I am saying is. I have seen the moving Salem anyway. Ok, maybe very hard to revive, although it is, it really does have a have a wonderful score, the

Almost every musical that is worthy are deserving of revival is revived now, quite quite frequently, and sometimes you discover that really wasn't risk is could as you, you thought it was that's one now. That's that's one interesting aspect of this whole process. I would say that We'll know you had an answer, so why don't you give your answer, but I have been informed by Nostalgia No that's ok, method revival, but it's a very personal nostalgia. So I spent my youth in theatre in right around Software Europe College. I stopped doing musical theater, but I had done like thirty forty productions before then grimly word suddenly that gap that two or three year and then my favorite performance and my favorite property- that I did in my high school acting day

was chess, just the musical written by the guys from up from from on that score, was up here the score by the guys from abstinence about her When the song, you know one night in Bangkok the worst song in the entire score. But this is not this is this is inaccurate. After a deal that ok, it's another nail up yet true, yes, but our did play the lead, alien and anomalies that Our two leads right, there's others. If it's about a cold war, chest competition right between the American pretty much in America Russia than you played the Russian yes yeah, yeah yeah it were it up. It's considered a highly problematic show its The version in in in London and in the mid 80s was considered over produce stands Astris and they rewrote the book and it came here and there was afraid they ran. Four hundred and sixty performance is only on Broadway and closed, so

I think chess as it would be interesting to see if you could do something with Chasse. It turns out basically that even What we know of shows are there are their scores, writer, their famous stances or something like you know the song in all this, the only musicals that work on revival are the ones that have good libretto. What's that other were otherwise they like their extreme versions of this, my favorite extreme version? is the sand high musical merrily role along which ran sixteen performances we talked about? It will carry teach at a couple weeks ago. It has, one of the great scores and broadly history. It is unworkable, apparently a structurally. It was based on a flop, show that tells the story backwards in time, about how I idealistic two three idealistic people end up serves. Nickel, bitter and alone, but you start with them cynical bitter alone. You go back in time to see how they eat. I had to see how it happened that they got that

by seeing how they were before it whatever and it just doesn't I've seen it three times it's awful every time an tarried says that they founded in a new way to do it that fixes at I you know I will. I will take my word for it, though I dont really believe that is possible, because I think that the problems are endemic, but it really is the case that a show works if its. If, if it has a long spine, just like almost any other form of storytelling, and so almost every show that you want to see if you're a person who loves Broadway scores, you're like oh man. I wish I could have seen that and then Sir he doesn't negotiator like. Oh, I there's a show called seventy girls, seventy, which is about an old age home candor, Abu Road Cabaret in Chicago roads, as it has a fantastic score and it's all old people. So

all people in their seventies and eighties, and it's a fantastic and they they end up knocking over like a threat. You could Simon Shop and stealing cups. Based on a movie called make my make any way it has a fantastic score. They did it in this revival program here called on Coors and by about nine hundred and thirty you were liking me out of here this is, and this is draining the life from my body, curse. Pete. I want you to know. Who's always has a succeed than revive since well I no, no, I burial Radcliffe did it on Broadway and twenty, and he was fantastic. That's Harry Potter for Louise I didn't all right, I think, was negative master broader did it and how to succeed is that does have a fantastic spine and and is? Is it is an eminently of constantly revival

Show so, and you know one of the things about what's happened here is that is that we don't know, what's going to happen with Broadway, Hugh Jacqueline gonna, be doing all the music man with sudden foster, whose may I yeah and now the music man is a great show, though it has. It has a bit of a problematic second act. That is an amazing and very original show, and that was something tat or two, and now God only knows it. Whoever see silhouette day. It's being and by the same team that revived Hallo, Dolly with bet meddler, which was one of the best productions that I've ever seen and a show that I did not think particularly well of and again has such a strong, not only book,

story but serves strong emotional beats, and things like that that it just it was like it was an enchantment from beginning to end. So more honorable mention on the story from it. It has just awful score. Honestly. Is my favorite year user, story, I'm really funding at age, but the score is now that creates a probably would bomb while cited up late there's, one thing I can think of that I would again here is a show that I loved and they I don't think you could do now, because it's it's about a failed wife, swap it's called That is why it was done in the late Seventys on Broadway ran for two years again a fantastic score. If you have spent fire. You know Amazon, music or something go. Listen to this score. Had

incredible innovation, which is that it basically have for peace, kind of Dixie, land, bad, and they were on stage as the chorus and it was very funny and very lively and really really interesting. Thrilling show and probably just wait dated two again and have discussed Seven, these hipster way with retrogressive abuse of women and all that that would make it discomfitting, but that's something I would like to see if it were ever done so a yeah you're at your amusing, do everything you can think about nine mean. Actually I saw merrily a few months ago. I don't I don't. I understand the better,

it is widely regarded as unlawful I'd. I didn't find it so but with, but that that that's my contract, I have, I have a tip for people: ok, on Twitter, New York, city Centre, has a twitter feed and one of the things that they are doing on the twitter feed in New York City Centre is because Everybody is relaxing all kinds of rules they are releasing songs from these productions that they have done for twenty five years, which are all almost Oh scale revivals with unbelievably good cas if they only do five shows of at at City centre, the most famous of these being the revival of Chicago that is still running almost a quarter century later, on more was running until Broadway shut down which was done there as it as a sort of a revival of a show that deserves to be heard again anyway in this in the square feet over the last

three or four days they had been releasing to two and a half minute version, the songs that have been performed their over the course of twenty years and they keep doing this. No, you can't really do because their complicated rights issues involved in this you have patio opponent, Gipsy and you have performances of great Rogers and heart material, I'm hoping that they will release Christian China with singing on a clear day. You can see forever which they did not record for again. For complicated rights reasons, which was one of the great performances I've ever seen, If you go to Twitter look up city centre, You will be able to have a have a fun time. Looking at some of these some of these clips for the first time and with that, I will bid, you a ass, pleasant weakened,

possibly have and for a pristine, and now I'm jump a whore escaped the camel burning.