« Commentary Magazine Podcast

The Chauvin Trial Begins

2021-03-29 | 🔗
Today we take up the dangers posed by the trial of Derek Chauvin, charged with the murder of George Floyd, and the controversy over so-called "vaccine passports." Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary murders in daily parkers today, Monday March, twenty nine twenty twenty one, I'm John backwards. The editor of Commentary magazine with me. As always executive, editor everyone high Hydra singing, Loretta, Christine rose high, Christine hijacked where can I just say I should have to wear Phil Spectre wig as penance, because I completely bundled our podcast on Friday and I'm sorry for the listeners who didn't you had to go back and and the fixed. What we're gonna do better this week. No, no no Rossman is his office. Would you should not have to wear the feel spectre way, you haven't even until anybody's had so you know I just want to make that clear.
the person who didn't kill anybody. You are therefore not comparable to Philip Phil Spectre who actually overproduce things just ass though, but let's not forget there is, though there is no wall of sound. I M sitting in a basement in Chicago where I think the sound quality isn't quite as good as it is, where were we do it now where do New York, so why am I apologise for that? I hope Those of our listeners who who had their demonstrators had profitable. Profitable ones. I did have a funny experience. I just like to share with you, which is the term We my family, downloaded as a shared haha because we had people who were zooming an until everyone should have the same one another. Very nice synagogue. An unseen California Valley
valley shalom. I believe it's called had produced this, zoom how gotta that we used, and my brother, who is running the state are called on me one point to read a passage observer of extrapolation passage about what the exit might mean to you today and as I'm reading, I'm going along reading it and then at the end it indicates that the passage was written by Michael Walser, Michael Walser, is a professor at Princeton, who is also one of the editors of dissent which people may Know- is the kind of socialist version of commentary. Let's just say and worse, the air a more too wise to buy the amount disgrace. Woody Allen, Annie Hall, who said that he had thought that descent and common I had merged and become dysentery. Anyway. I consider the very young, ah
pointed fact that I was I was compelled to read. I hope that at his zoom sailor, Michael Walser was forced to read the passage by me better somehow I doubt that that happened. If you, if you get my if at my meaning, anyhow, walls unlike me, Walser has route did write a book on this or political meaning and ramifications of the exodus. So he he at least has has that going form butter. But such is life as a politically conservative Jew in America. So, Today, the trial of of of police officer direction then gets underway in Minneapolis for the young for the murder of the accused of minor, murdering George Floyd. and we have been lost, old into a false sense of security, about how the events of twenty twenty-
we're twenty twenty were asked. if it maybe twenty twenty and all these changes- have gone on. Also so much revolution everywhere at the way the people were forced to confront them. A village and white supremacy in that, obviously that's a real were really tried of more we're trying to grapple with our our traditions and the things that will lead to better event like this. I'm all of that agenda since he has changed, and we now have a liberal presidency in everything and that I think we're we're all expecting. We, the three of us, are all expecting that dumb whatever whatever alterations may have taken place in response to the to the killing of George Floyd,
they will be as nothing if if the verdict doesn't go the way the mob wants to, and indeed I think if events during the trial as they are reported on during the trial, do not go the way that people want them to and so I'm a little I'm more than a little apprehensive that we're about to see a flare up of the civil disorder of twenty twenty, In twenty twenty one a year this is also will be just by virtue of of what the trial is. This will be the first unapologetic airing of a defense of Sheldon's actions right and that in and of itself is going to stir up. All sorts of passions to under the defence is expected to claim that,
George Floyd died as a result of having some sort of mix of sentinel and methamphetamine in his system. That is why there is certainly going to inflame things, I suppose there's a chance that, because the truth is no longer present in Joe Biden, is at them. media may be somewhat invested in France. Being the events of the trial as you taking place, somehow and against a more just national backdrop. Then, then, if Trump were still in office, stated there there less instead devised to paint a portrait of completely out of
troll and unjust, racist America, but I don't. I don't know that that would really have enough of an effective to quell anything that could arise certainly gonna put coming in one sense: it's gonna exposed one of the major Fisher points on the left that was hidden by Trump being an office which is that the active is progressive, left doesnt trusted judicial system and if they are and if they don't get the verdict, they want they're gonna attack that and they don't care biting his present anymore right. You ve seen that european and color, I stopped their rhetoric during the summer was was, completely on one side of the minute. There was any sort of the attack on the capital is about bite supremacy through that they are saying all the right words? But if events don't play out the way the active is one we ve seen this even with legislation, the brie that is being pursued by activists and Capital Helen, they they were making actual.
that's about violence. If this legislation didn't get past like what the summer's coming you know, people are really angry. Still, there is all kinds of signalling going on on the left and binds honourable, in some sense, if there's a lot of thousand disorder that comes resolve this verdict, and we in there's also and a weird kind of media approach to this. That hasn't wanted to be honest about, what's already happening in Minneapolis, like the Beard Autonomous Zone, George Ploy Plaza, that's been constructed. That has signs that say cops are not welcome where thirty or volunteers already been shot and killed, where people here businesses in that area under Heaven, The customers and boarded up windows and This is all happening in inviting the barricades everybody liked to say about trumps words and not just its also, not just by America. I mean this is a progressive city with a progressive city council that did cut funding to the police and is this: you now one choice.
Boy mayor walks, ram the t, shirt, thou whining that people don't think that he's, but yes, progressive, as as as he really is, but that you know you can't really be a mayor and men then want the police in entirely the funded. So This is a city in which there is no political counterweight to the. There wasn't any political counterweight to the programme the agenda before the killing of George Floyd end There was the sword mad on rush to this, mantle structures of the police department, knowledge that an end and the the proof of the pudding, is in the eating. As I think we keep saying one of the interesting things about these criminal alterations in criminal justice policy that have started really in the last years of the twenty twenty teens is that there are
ex arse. Astonishingly immediate you know it's like, if you make it clear that you are pull it, that police are pulling back. The rise in disorder from the places where the police are pulling back is instant, almost instantaneous everywhere that happens- and I mention this before- but you know in New York City when they change the bail law and they change this or that urging laws and the system of charging people with with with with crimes and all of that, the New York, in twenty twenty saw, a twenty four an increase in violent crime and eleven percent increase in shooting deaths. Now from a very low base right because the city had had been extort merrily Pacific for the last thirty,
years, but of course the question is whether that about one off Bowman or whether we are entering into a new period of of of high crime am I distrust of the police, not only by by my morning populations, but by the political establishment and end. The story in Minneapolis obviously, is that there were hundreds of retirements in Minneapolis Police Department. People say I am. I want no part of this I'm not gonna be a police officer in this atmosphere where police officers are now have you know are now consider evil. Ah, I don't need this in my life and, and so the department was not only Hancock, in its own way by the was depopulated by the response to tat too George Floyd. We all in New York City, for example,
there is a mayoral race going on. There are bad that dozens of candidates- and there are two candidates in the race to out of out of fifteen or something like that who within You think to say on the subject of what they might do to lower the incidents of violent crime and the rise in and social disorder. That's Andrew Yang and Re Maguire. Everybody else is talking as though. The main issue in the city. Is you know, Green S orbit our you know we need, I mean it as a kind of cloud cuckoo land the fact where they are talking about everything other than the issues that are actually bedevil in the city. turn just the crowd virus, but the rise in decay and disorder that is visible, everybody's eyes, and you are now not allowed to talk about this in progressive circles at all. Well, that's that's it s really!
what s interesting about that? Is it what we ve seen during the Trump years? It is very easy for them. Instead of getting into great detail about rising primaries, originally violent crime and gun violence, it was easier say, will everything's the result of trumps rhetoric. And systemic, but by supremacy They can't that in their still doing out that still serve the mantra anytime. There's like anyone talks about crime, the progressive book as well. If we can only sought this problem, systemic racism in white supremacy, but people aren't buying into the people, are going into the people who the minorities who live in those communities and are being preyed upon whose who are literally experiencing the violence on the streets every day there are the ones who I think you're gonna be pressing. Back on this with backward in some already are in and in parts of the world? we are doing is indeed you that's good. They need putting pressure on their elected officials in saying how are you practically going to stop this like how Harrigan Jesus the points one. Is that not only are you not allowed to talk about the actual problems that are now the devil in the cities,
among those on the left, who were in favour of DE funding, the police and reform their claim now is nothing has been done. did you ever have everyone got upset about about nothing There was a lot of rhetoric, but nothing has been defined it because they they use, await a look at some of the numbers and and say: oh well, you know you got some things were reallocated and that's, but but the net effect is known less exactly jobs. You describe that the these these please police forces have been hobble, adjust but quick him. My other point is that in terms of safety in cities? This is happening. Simum changes to the continued draining of that these cities populations, at least. certain business centres and and and wherever else, what people are not returning to the
office bases, I'm at a rate that represents where we were prepared to itself, but through the city, significantly emptied out in large swathes, which leave only more dangerous elements out there. I wanted to raise a couple of quotes from New York Times story this morning, at ten months after George Lloyd's, desperate apples residents are at war over policing, So there is this area called George Floyd swear that is essentially become an autonomous zone. Christine alluded led to that fact, and Minneapolis by the way saw a twenty five percent increase in homicides rates, robberies and assaults. After after the unrest began in June, I'm on the four neighbourhood surrounding George Floyd swear the name given the corner where Mr Floyd died according to your times, and the story is far bleaker and then
They are in those areas, powder Horn Park, Central Brian and Bancroft violent crime shut up by sixty six percent last year and this year so far little it has changed. The areas become something of a ton of a sound with barriers and signs calling it the free state of George Void. The police have stayed away promised a year to avoid inflaming tens, now. Supporters of the funding the policeman applauded steps to redirect eight million dollars of the police departments budget, which now sits. About a hundred and seventy million somebody's ones have gone to the Office of Violence prevention. Its director is saucer, cotton. Ok, here's what such a cotton says. We are under a microscope and at an epicenter that no city wants to be, and I think that from these challenges there was real growth happening and that we will come better on the other side, but it's sort of like the awkward teenage space that people have to go through.
so. The awkward teenage space is an increase in crime of sixty six percent. That is apparently far worse than this civic area where, where George Floyd was killed, and passed her Curtis Ferrar, who leads worldwide outrage for Christ. At George words, where said gang viands along a problem in the area, but it had been improving before Mister Lloyd was killed in police will be. Now the sounds of gunshots. Our constant and recently workers. He has higher to changes. Churches windows have refused to come to the area because they feel it is too dangerous. Civil rights lawyer named ah me Humor leaving Armstrong said that, while she would support some resources going to social services. The defined movement is nothing more than called catchy slogans and catch phrases She said that last summer she warned Jeremiah was in the City council member, supporting efforts to dismantle the police department that it would lead to only
Yes, you are going to turn Minneapolis in the wild wild West. She recalled telling him but Mister Ellison said the uptake and violence in the city began long before any money was redirected from the police any credit. The council members for investing in altruist policing to do what we done in ten months. He said as far as city governments concerned. That's kind of moving at light speed, so courses an article that down one would assume its authors of reported out think they necessarily want then take away to be taken. way that any rational person reading this article would take, which is that these people are crazy and
you know the Kimberley, We Armstrong is saying, says you know, you're turning this waste into the wild wild West german Alison says YE hides though I'll come worth something nobody congratulates. Then the literally congratulates himself and other elected officials for the fact that the body count is now higher in your city. That's that's what he just said: that's appalling the appalling and, as I say like based on the New York City may are always. There is a kind of implicit understanding that that's that Oh here is to deferring the forces of order, because the forces of order as such, How create the conditions under which oppression exists and the interesting thing is, but this is this represents a kind of alchemy, realistic trade off that one that one more readily associates with villains in guinea.
In like a conspiracy, crime movies who say things like what you know. Oh you dont, like our food, I should state will what do you want? Just marauding in the streets. Like that's what that's what the sword, the villain say, get out like a lawyer grow up. This is where he we're living here in the real world. You know. Sometimes you gotta shoot people in order to make your point, nor that an end and effectively there, that is, the defence of these policies. he's at? If it's not it's? What Christine you said, which is that the others people say it's not happening at it's, not really happening anyway. So you don't. We They have the right to complain things are all that disordered because we haven't even gotten, started well there in the telegram, sorry, which I recommend to readers might be behind a Paypal but The things that report on his is deep.
Overall tone and moved that the people in the autonomous and are trying to set up a sides refusing to allow any cops and they have a person in both monetary to make sure law enforcement doesn't get it. They have signed saying that anyone who comes in should approach the area as if they are visiting outwits with that kind. me no honour either that that can respect for their kind. The area that they are entering they have all kinds of statements about how you know it's, it's a local. It is like, while everybody's complain about the violence now, but it's always been while we were under served for so long, and so now at least we're gonna try, this more radical way of doing things that that's gonna be better, and there is something to be said for people who have been in these neighborhoods and face, and crime you know, decade after decade and city officials did nothing for them to say well, you're noticing us now only because this horrible death occurred. But really this has been a problem. but then to pivot from that to embracing defined the police- and you know embracing these up is obviously rising. Violent crime rate doesn't make sense, but it does make
ideological, says- and I think that's where the consumer, the need for a lot of these sort. Community activists types is, isn't there's ideologically consistent position that nevertheless, must overlooked. The violent facts on the ground. Looked at them most horrible aspect of this, and it is horrible beyond belief is just as I do. You know analogies this. You know the villain speaking the deep Neil is truth in a movie that that what you want you have here is progressive force Those who work nominally and or you know, even in terms of their funding in their structure and everything like that essentially, a demanding a preferential options? What what? What used to be called the preferential option for the poor and catholic Social Justice circles, particularly in the southern hemisphere, but the idea that all social policy needs to be redirected to ensure that that people who have been proper previously oppressed,
gets were like the lion's share of the benefits of society and all that and that in this, preferential option. You are somehow exe putting the idea that this population is uniquely and innate Lee and determinedly more are committed to decay, disorder and violence and prefers that to justice entered issue order like I want to be able to go out and out outside my building and walked down the street safe and not get Rob, mugged or beaten. that somehow there is something unique about a culture of violence amid poverty. That is more authentic and is better or is more moral them, then than a world in which even the least of us, is protected from the press auditors who see
to destroy the the means and ways of ordinary life that you now in misery, because those of us who have enough resources can barricade ourselves in there. ways we can never go out on the street we can get out. We can take taxis everywhere. We can, you know a weakened, but the warder bad groceries into our house. We can do whatever we can do, as was always the case, even in the terrible crimes. Bird. Sixties, the nineties, to create gated communities, but that that is true of people who have limited resources who are more in need of the protections of police and public safety officials then, are the well to do and yet that is precisely what all of these policies are designed to prevent, which is that they are aired designed to, contribute to their immigration as
I'm kind of an ideological gesture to the notion that says that that our society is systematically unjust. It is it is it how're, you know an and it's so obvious on it. phase that you really wonder what it is if you want to say it's terrible- that certain police off sir, do terrible things and a lot has happened in this country. In you know, anticipated ways or serve. You know, in the arm You know unintended consequential ways to make it too easy on them when they went bad things, happen, certainties the union contract certain kinds of state laws, particularly New York, state again that make it that that allow them to be silent, that not to share information and do all kinds of stuff like that. We wanted
say that there is a problem with bad apples that needs to be resolved, that something that everybody, I think has come to the point that we all agree on. But that's not what that's not. What's being argued, here would spring argued here is that society itself is systematically oppressing people and that we should therefore accept the wild West rather than you know this. civilization that can be brought to bear its like saying you know, there's a problem with american health care. So, let's get rid of the doctors who face, or there is a problem organ healthcare. So let's get rid of the profit motive yet which forces which is why it, which is what said the profit motive, is terrible. So don't it don't incentivize anybody in health care to do things that will make people healthier. Or do you know where to our help, cure diseases or something right, that's the that is
as the world in which we live, which we talked about last week, write that down that I am here. We have this magnificent achievement in in the production of vaccines. That is an implicit rebuke to the whole notion that what we need to do is national wise you know these private industries and put them under under under government control. What the government did was say we guarantee we're gonna buy stuff from you. Now you go off and do whatever magic. It is that you do with this profit incentive and lo and behold, nine months we had, we have now wait out at least word vaccines with more may becoming so far. I think that's a good idea, but yeah, but but I did, these ideas are so semi religious nature that they resist all rational, disputation or warm or rather rational, disproved by actual of evidence of
their own eyes and your own senses. Let me talk about evidence of your back evidence of your of you, Our bodies, health, as we as we go through this up work. in which we are staying at home us instead of going to offices and working and then stretching ourselves as we walk around. Do all that it recent decades. There has been a growing appreciation of having the right bed for those eight hours. we spent a stable for many Americans there's another place. We found ourselves in four hours daily, the office chair and just like it old spring mattress, one cut it from ten to six, a shaky old Gerald colored from ninety five and if you're, not in an Ex chair than the one you got it's to go. I just got myself next chair, I'm about to explain to you why this chair, is some magnificent marvel of human achievement. It because it is not only its patented dynamic. Very
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the word chair, commentary, got com or call one. Eight for four four x chair ex chair has a thirty the guarantee of complete comfort. Then you can I note your purchase for as little as thirty dollars, a month ago to Ex chair commentary, dot com now and use code Ex Wheels Ex w h e l ass for free ex we'll blade, Castors Ex chair commentary, dot com, all right. So that was depressing. So now what we get? What can we do to press people were some more precise. but he have whatever method of a body of in the depressing I say: eight. There has, as I think, he's probably so here tat. We can go move on from depressed. You like alarmist concern about, I hope, you're gonna bring at the vaccine. Passports does that's like yeah yeah, there's version authors, thirst, now there are stories about the creation of a national vaccine passport that would
to allow those who have spoken show proof of vaccination to engage in common. And like you know, attend public venues. but not New York's already got some sort of digital of version of this rolling out, I'm so, you know here we are. This: is the dishes Dickens and made the chain the nose off during the week of this is breaking or even this was his own concern that when it comes to tiered system where, whereby people who had get got vaccine will have rights that those who cannot prove that they ve got in the way. Super. Haven't gotten vaccine will not have I'll, just save. For my part, I mud outraged by the idea. In fact, I think the de conceptually it's it's it's there. There
Things commendable about it? I'm, however, I do suspect that, given the state of everything from a digital platforms to the maintenance of a digital database to our politics to thee ever unreliable about public health in Europe? see, I am, I am almost certain that its implementation is is going to be highly highly problematic, will end the fact the one question that should be ass before any of these things are even discuss publicly. Is it? What is this do for about? How does this impasse potentially on rights and liberties of individual citizens. Nobody wants that. We just kept right over that question right, even if there's a bit can make an argument that you week have trade offs in this regard. This, why were you know, Typhoid Mary was locked up against a will. For that reason, we do have kids law that shows when this, when, when we negotiated the rights versus the responsibilities, but
Our conversation is even happening with skip straight ahead through the washing post praising the bite administrations ages. For developing this thing, like I wasn't this great. We're gonna create this thing that allows you know for what I think, those correct to call a two tier society and that What concerns me is that you actually need to have the discussion about civil liberties and rights before you start implementing in developing technologies that will enforce them, because we always get backwards. What's going to happen if they implement, as if this is the start requiring lawsuits one supply as they should, because we didn't have this discussion about rights and liberties and traders Ok, I don't care. Autonomy. How many times I can't get the vat? Nobody is ok, you know, that's not frustrating. First of all, its too early. it is too early to implement the system. It is not fair to implement a system like this until the vaccine is readily available to everybody who can get it back
right. So the New York system, the Excelsior Passport, which I went on We can to try to love register into as AIDS as a twice vaccinated person, and it turns out. I can't get it yet, because you need to be two weeks out from having got in the second vaccine to get your Excelsior passports or that the full benefit of the The vaccine is your coursing through your system, so that for me, is tomorrow and I will go on a register for it. It is not just an an appropriate for this to be the case until the moment at which everyone in the country, as it is, is some is eligible to to get the best c mon. Let's go. I just have to interrupt briefly to point out why on earth they called it itself ear, Excelsior means of superior quality. Latin names gathered the motto of New York State, just two
but like the outer. Why did you know that? But the average person years- that's like also to superior people, now have their bags to go, do with equal, but its correct when the superior to people's attention on three of the five or vaccine rose was devised, vaccine no everybody else who, as Madeira, they saw living there's a holder of many tears in society, because five there are rules and madeira socks. That's all I'm saying even my parents, were there and I don't care they are as far as I'm concerned are on the wrong team. They they there the Bela check of of the virus and we're like they ve gone mad anyway. Sorry because going by the way is like, is like these relative to turn nations about all by by my vaccine, has ninety three percent efficacy, whereas yours Seventy nine percent efficacy. Anyway. What I said
I don't care what I mean is that assumed what I'm saying, which is that there is the point at which everybody over the age of sixteen is eligible for for the vaccine, and we have reached the point at which all that there is a surplus the vaccine and not a shortage? At that point, I don't know what suasion we have to deal with. The people who are vaccine, hesitant as we are now apparently obliged to call them as opposed to serve, few backs. Testing swerve psychotic. I've been out whenever you want to call I dont care, and that is of no consequence to me. We can all be insulted We are in a rush to get people vaccinated so that the variants don't so that people have protection and so the variant stone spread and then make more people who are in fact unaided sick, faster. What inside
is there to push the vaccine hesitant into the category of people who acknowledge that they really have to do this. Even if there are scared of it or whatever they don't like needles, which I I'm guessing, is a much larger factor in this people realize I mean people. There are people we notice from kids and all that, but there are people I think who goes through their lives remaining in a state of absolute pitched terror of needles, and that this is why their hesitant that maybe, if it was on a sure, if, like the polio vaccine, they would feel a lot different It doesn't even matter to me like this is a mess the public health concern. We do have similar reason, the country, so you cannot mandate. You cannot write a law that has everybody has to get back tonight and we don't have that kind of country. In that kind of system, however, if you can create something like a vaccine passport that then others can do with as they will, including her employer. It's like. Ok, you don't like it, Maxie you'll want approved with you.
The vaccine, find it. Dear you're right, you can come back to work for me ninety nineties, when drug testing got very popular. If you work for a company that drug tested, you were had random drug testing that I think the jet The thought was: will random drug testing could be a civil liberties violation, but you don't have an eye. You don't have an unambiguous right to work for a company. there. You have. No civil rights have been up in a matter of private contracts in that way, and so, we could say you have to take a drug test, your like I'm, not gonna. Take it dropped us they're, fine, ok, so you gotta go, find someplace else toward the component difference there there that wasn't, a state run digital drugs, drug test system and database Well, I mean the other questions. Then how do you so the Excelsior passport system, as far as I can tell did this, who put in your name in your age, and
it asks you it asks you a couple of questions that are designed to identify that you are who you say you are. It says what date where, you vaccinated parrot list for dates, around the same time, so you pick one is the one that you were back say that and then ask you what county you were in when you that, vaccinated- and you picked, the county and then it looks your name up and your birthday up, and then it says that it knows that the two- and in my case it said you're, not you haven't, been vaccinated, you you know you're, not ready. Yet you have to come back after two weeks or something like that. So the the every hour it's just that you go on and say you were vaccinated than you, you you get done yet to stake database, but it the whole question that collects in. For me, I knew how else is gonna be done. The vaccinations I don't know that's gonna work for the pharmacy is right pharmacies or are all private bob, while winds and CBS, which, in Europe
if only just in the last two weeks got up and running as as vaccine you know, the distribution points or something like that, but How else is gonna be done? Who else follows maintainer in our server a database of that size will there is couple things, one in cities like Mine DC, which is doing vaccination as a kind of equity issue, meaning that if you live in certain words in a city that a majority white your last on the list, in fact some days, you're not allowed to bucket appointment as long as that continues. They're gonna be pockets of cities better reader. Do wrong with vaccination, like my city is where people can't get a vaccine, and as long as there's a single person in Europe in your jurisdiction, the cat hit the vaccine, because you can't figure out how to distribute your citizens. They can't have any sort of past the salmon. That's gonna, so these gonna take a lot longer just to get to that point than than even the summer. Even when there's tons of
I've seen available, they can't figure out how to get it into people's into the distribution centres and set up. Appointments literally, cannot figure it out here and easy it's astonishing, but the other day I would point out, is that yeah private employer can say to his or her employees. If you don't mind get your vaccine. You can come back to work, but when you gonna do about public sector unions wedding and about teachers who are many of whom have already refused to get back to needed, returned to work, they exertion contractors as public employees that have different different things: it into their contracts. That might allow them to say why and how to get that, need it, and I don't have to go back to work either like they are, try all ready doing ass. We know that right, but that is where the robber be. Throw that that's a whole separate you're now dealing with an entirely separate issue, which is in Particular these stories that we have now heard that that the teachers and fairfax counting the teachers in San Francisco have already announced that they will not
if they have anything to say about they're, not gonna go back to work in September. So I think at that point, when the when when vaccines are readily available and when probably everybody over sixteen at that point will be available to have the vaccine. And for all we know it will be approved for children under sixteen. If at that point, they refused to go back to work When we have, we are gonna, have a hundred path. Co situate, we're. Gonna have a hundred public sector unions that art that are striking or doing work stoppages, or something like that that I am sure I am rather language of these contracts, but that void the contract and the quest chinese. What are these cities gonna do when they have public sector? the workers, who are violation of their contract, whose behaviour systematically denying what we take in
United States to be a universal civil right, which is an area which is public education, which is according to federal law required to be accessible to all and are they going to be allowed to continue with this simply because they have political power and that's a whole that's where we start getting into an interesting category where you can then say these vat seen passports are really important, because that is the modality that is going to be used to to ensure that this population that has decided that they have an aristocratic right of refusal to participate? in the in the labor of the world in which they live, while getting full benefit of not only there's union contract but of all the best it's society where they are going to be faced,
down and shot down, and you know the so. In that sense, you are creating a basic condition here. Let me just ask you this, because you know we, we require children, In a lot of places, children are required to be vaccinated into our public. Schools have to be vaccinated right and you didn't not vaccinate them, but then they can go to school. They have to be from school. There were other well how it works. We have that rule because children do not have full civil liberties. They are not considered fully active. You know by people with full civil rights in May and and and things can be imposed on children that cannot be imposed on self governing adults who our voters and all of that, vaccine hesitancy has two or three forms right, one,
of which, as I say again, is probably based in fear of needles, which is do we not have a substantial number of people who problem We have this, like just got fear of needles. You know ten percent of the population. Who knows what what the members then you have People who are like onawandah stick things in my body on a train. I don't trust you people and who knows. What's going on, you know I've been seeing these commercials about how the people- we'll get you see. I don't want to do that. And then you have the antibiotics or movement and yet, the facts are movement. If you recall, did not exist until the ninety nine, these and and it tat it must be destroyed because I was terrible. Things are happening as a result of the antibiotics or movement. As far as I can tell the terrible things sky
Andrew Wakefield, this doctrine, Britain, who announced on the basis of fabricated research that vaccines caused autism- maybe one of the great mass murderers and in world history I mean you know, he's been he be blocked. Medical licences, get out visa disgraced figure in the medical community, but he effectively accelerated this idea, that, though, that the very things that cure that that have made twenty first, twenty of the twenty first century life possible that eliminated mass childhood deaths that did all kinds of things that are in our beyond belief? you know is it is, it is a terrible evil, and so in that sense, if the, if the, if the van seen passport that we're not the only country it's gonna, do, as probably every country in the world is give em the doktor Some version of it
could have this larger social benefit of of breaking the back of the and he vaccine, when I noticed today, just let me finish this round. I noticed there last night that there is a theirs of theirs. A writer survive that no evangelical by a popular evangelical writer named air Metaxas, whom I know some bread, a biography of dark on Offer- He has a real talk, show he's a big tramper. You know he put somebody at a rally. I know him he's kind of a nice guy was an actor became. A rare became a very religious, Press ran a group in your York, Socrates, in the city, which was a kind of discussion, the forum for sale, his philosophical ideas and evil on Twitter. Yes, that's two hundred fifty thousand fall Where is he said, protest? Don't take the vaccine now wise Metaxas, who was not a doktor who is a you know, was like a popular biographer, wise
an anti what what? What is what is going on you have this weird category of people who are now turning on the vaccine. It somehow connects with Trump and and a Cuban on, and I dont know what are the Romans where that back seen passport as a federal requirement actually drive will create more of those people in this way the guides its. If you federalized this, then it starts to become requirement that private businesses, an excuse, used it to weed out people from coming in and participate. In commerce activities in employment. You also have the danger that the federal government. This is a very real danger. It's happened over and over again when it comes to federal level, databases, look at the old crime database code as the original DNA databases, the federal government ranch. It was very strictly told everyone. This is only going to be for people who have been convicted, we're gonna put their dna and this database that, if their release- and they re offend, will have all is now.
EL, the state level, databases of feed into quotas. Many many states and more and more each passing year are included, the dna that's taken for people who are under arrest. You don't even have to be convicted in you, you get your cheek swap. It goes into the federal database in his Ex and it because it's proven powerful for the federal government. Now you can argue that the law enforcement need and the ability of cold cases make all that justifiable. But you have to have that argument, and this is happening the same. things could happen where you start with the backseat passport and then suddenly a while our health care system could really benefit from everybody having all the stuff digitize on their smartphone someone they come with their doctor. We had there adequate information with everything right here and for some people myself included. I don't want to see the federal government having that kind of information power about ordinary set. As you know, I I I I agree that far from breaking the back of the antibiotics from movement, I forget it could embolden because part of the anti that's argument, forgetting the the
The pseudo scientific claims about have disease spread, but in this particular case, when it comes to cover This isn't about stopping the pandemic. Says about tracking you is. This is why you shouldn't get the vaccine. This is all about getting you in their system and tracking you, which this passport would indeed lend credence to. The other point is that every a sort of new imposed, condition and the pandemic that we had hoped would be short lived like school closures and whatever else has extended and morphed and been used to advance some sort of ideological agenda, and I don't see why there should be any different. Ok, so let letters
put it this way, I am not saying that the federal government can or should or will be able to mandate that Everybody has this federal passport, Just as the foger, when can't mandate that everybody by car insurance, however, if you want to do irish licence in many states you have to worry all states or something you have to have car insurance with ideas. You don't have an unlimited bright to drive a car, there's no constitutional right to drive a car is what needed is some proof of vaccination and the card that you're getting. the problem. Also, as you get this card from the CDC If you're me, I got one them and I am sure you know it's a card and they fill it out. They put your number on it. They put the number of the vile that you got your dose. They are today
she's out of its on this card, and the card is, is it is a disaster like they screwed up the card? It's too big for the wallet. unfit your wallet. It's I'm cardboard sober if you have, if you laminated, so that its more permanent don't fit in your wallet. So if you're, if you're a man I mean you know, and so waste was to do with this thing, it doesn't make any it doesn't make any sense and its the pan and you could do indication that it's you and knowledge of stolen one off a desk and filled it out in some fashion and so. You don't have an unlimited right, gonna play right, you don't have their view. There's you have no some right to get on a plane. You have those civil right to do all kinds of things, how Will there be comfort in the world exhalation. Unless there is some system where
who can demonstrate in some fashion that you have been vaccinated and that's where that's again, and so in the name of in the name of civil liberties, to deny people the right to have some independent third system that says that they ve been vaccinated and therefore can got an own goal of theatre. Go go, go see, show on Broadway when Broadway opens or something like that houses Maybe it's gonna be an honor system, our eleven honour system in the United States, where everybody just says they were vaccinated, including the including the garbage people who refuse to get vaccinated for whatever garbage reason they have refused to get vaccinated and it is a garbage reason and I'm not gonna, be nice about it backs. the presidency is garbage socket. I get the shock as I did in that you think I was unpleasant to get it my upper arm at her I'll bet. So what you now you do not
things that are unpleasant, you now just like get through life, including you know like getting your oil changed. You now waiting in the waiting room. I don't care anyway, so that's my rat So answer me so so you're saying this is terrible: they're gonna, it's the camels, The tag they're gonna have all our data. Where information that debates and it's hard well, what's the alternative. The alternative is actually the one you mentioned earlier and it's the one where what schools require parents to do to have their kids in role. It requires who is apparent to go to your child speed. nutrition and that the period fill out a form which shows all the vaccinations at your kid, his hat, which you then, which is which is actually a school issued for meat school issues, its own form, you take it to the doktor, the doktor filtered out, usually when they're doing their annual physical and then use a bit it back to the school. The school has a record of it what I like about that, although it it's a lot more bureaucratic and there is in some ways more paperwork, isn't it
it's the individual is going to one's private physician and then to the institution which is requiring documentation and it's a closed. all right now, if you leave because of his protections, if the skull leaks, my kids information, medical information, they will get in trouble for that dynamic There would be hit the protection sick on this database, but like a by share concerns about data base being hack. We just had a department of Homeland Security distributed ACT, only research, the federal government's digital infrastructure, it's not safe and has not been save for a very long time for their safety concerning the privacy concern. For me, as also the goalposts shifting concern now, is that People should get back. I don't want to get back said, but if it is removing the burden of persuading the people who are least likely to get back to needed and making it a punitive reactions We know from anti factors that sitting down in talking to a doctor who listen to their concerns and expand. then why vaccination is important. change minds. A one hour
A conversation with someone who listens persuades is very useful. We know this research that same conversation might need to happen. Millions of times with the coded vaccination. That's not it! It's a mess year. Human solution than the kind of top down digital passport saying that the federal government is proposing to those are the two concerns I have mainly with this particular system. I have another alternative, also, which is that which is understanding that Well, when, as more and more people get vaccinated, which they are in which they will do, they know numbers of infections in the country will drop dramatically to the point where something like having to show a passport that you that you got back, backdated want really be added, I mean it's all it we're we're all its already the case that if you want that if you are in you know what the New York Times calls I got a high
I don't even remember, remember their term terminology for like a high risk of extremely high risk areas. Scarier, your odds, are, you know, like you, know, one in I was in are more a hundred that even remember sets up something really safe of getting of getting that the virus, certainly with the penetration of the vaccine throughout society. I don't think we have a rethink its realistic to act as if we are to be- living in this we will, living in this this Toby aware, he's is everywhere, you turn and you and you have to show. I d do to prove the you're, not passing it. On I mean that's, that's the whole point of the vaccine. Is it's it's going to bring this thing to its knees, right, but there is a period between when the vaccines are administered and when we, when there is a common understanding that we have achieved Herbert heard, immunity work
gotta be in this kind of nether area and so you may be have the war of the narrow sees in the questions which no roasters gets to win. Is it the Neuro says that says? I need you to prove to me that you don't have the virus so that a you know we can all go out, go to a restaurant, or is it I'm worried that this vaccine is gonna. Chromium third had so I don't want to take the vaccine so in the end that stance you are essentially going to have to pick and choose between which your preferred nooks. This is enough. and were which irrational fear of you know of outside world and love and though and the good common functioning of everyday life is the one that get purchaser has or has the has the upper hand I dont know You know what to make of it. I take all of your points readily, but you know we are in a situation in which
we are no Something like this has never happened before. We have three hundred thirty million people in this country to undertake five million of them are over. The age of eighteen will therefore be eligible to receive the virus And thirty percent of people vaccine and thirty percent of people have now been vaccinated. The least once so we We are getting there faster than anybody thought we were going to. The question is when we hit sake, fifty percent. Are we gonna stall and, and what friends one when we stall, and so the idea of instead of creating there are two ways to look at a vaccine passport by the way? What is it? pointed at the other is the opposite. Have you ever? Maxine Passport, maybe get ten percent off at your local bar. You know what I mean. I mean it's like than there. There are those they don't have to show. You
you show your Excelsior passport and you'll. You know get you can drink here for three hours I mean: are you not whatever because I had to get up, there may be a point at which we need to get people over the hump to get you know another ten or fifteen for then vaccinated? So we achieve heard immunity and good good good order in good time? I don't. I don't know what that is about that just one thing that I radically bring us back to some of the law enforcement stuff. We were talking about earlier. The shelf you're dead, that is a posing on private individuals in this country. A policing function that really isn't there like to hear the business owner and you have to police people and new demands is either passport and I'm so you give them an incentive to come back into the room to your bar. well. You know it's about the same thing, then after nine eleven every office building added you had to show, and I d write. What was that about? Like that? Again, it's like you don't know, You don't have a universal right to go into an office building.
So you show your idea was that was that the dinner was the galleys neighbourly relations. Democrats, don't want you to show in ideas at the polls like they're gonna get. It won't get cancer that tomorrow. Actually we should maybe talk about the Georgia. The psychosis psychotic talk about the Georgia law and we are, I think, probably we have now tat. Your patients long enough, so we will. We will table this conversation and return to it for four, EVA Christine and the absolute harassment and jump onwards.
Transcript generated on 2021-07-28.