From entertainment to the academy, the COMMENTARY podcast takes note of the many cultural institutions that are hoisting themselves on their own petards.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary magazine Daily Podcast for Wednesday September, nineteen, twenty twenty, I jump out towards the editor of Commentary magazine with me, as always: executive editor, a green waldheim. How jump singing Christine rose high Christine, I got an associate editor no arrangement high on our agenda. Commentary magazine these seventy four year old in the monthly of intellectual analysis, political probity and cultural tourism. From a conservative perspective, we invite you to join us as always at cop. When's Harry magazine, dot com, where we give you a few free, reeds and then ask you to subscribe. So today I M going to declare
hoisting on their own petard. Edition of the commentary podcast, I have two particular topics I want to address one in the roll out of his book, Michael Colony, presidents, former fixer, and now you know enemy and antagonist here revealed a phone call that he take two with cm and chief Jeff Sucker in March of twenty. Sixteen, where Zocor offered debate, praise and guidance for Trump to Cohen, called Trump. The boss said he what had all sorts of proposals he wanted to float by Trump discuss what he might do for CNN after the election. Some of the quotes here are, I am very conscious of not putting too much
email as you're a lawyer. As you understand, sucker is heard telling Collen who it never occurred to might be taken and, as you know, as far as I am of the boss, he also has a tendency, like you know, if I call him or email him. He is then capable of going out of his next rally. In saying that we just talk- and I can't have that if you know what I'm saying not that I don't want to talk to him every day. I've just gotta be careful because I've just got to be careful. I just don't want him talking about it on the campaign to her, but you know what I'm gonna give him up.
Right now and I'm gonna wish him luck in the debate tonight. So forth. Almost four years seen ends. Brian stellar has been ranting enraging and screaming and yelling about them about the two places relationship between Fox NEWS and the Trump campaign and the hopes dab conspiracy between them and these written an entire book about it. And all of this- and here we have just as a car, a former head of NBC head of CNN, sucking up to Trump behind the scenes in twenty sixteen looking to take advantage of trumps ability to make money for him and knowing that this is a conversation that he could not have with Trump or were on email or anything like that, because trump-
I use it and then he would be exposed as a hypocritical, slime bucket. Please treatment. All this is so big, big revelation, its youth only committed to having amnesia over how the network covered Donald Trump, the candidate than down from the candidate was. Source of entertainment ban. We talked about it endlessly that some two billion dollars, estimating free advertising got from cable news. Network What's your name was a major contributor on his capacity to do, emanate. The airwaves was a function of the fact he was entertaining and that just sucker whose entertainment- maybe he knows, it is, but he knows, entertainment. The latter is debatable. The farmers are the former debatable the latter, certainly not so
They knew that down troublesome moneymaking entity and once it became more profitable to be against an informed and they switch gear is but it's all a business strategy. Nobody knows zest and also it became more profitable to be against them than for him as it became, clear, really very want that wasn't right up until that moment there was a kind of Rudy, forum in media Anima, liberal media because he was forced to lose. It was a joke this the greatest thing that has ever happened, because we by choosing Trump there Republicans were blown themselves up. This was great. Let's that, let's let celebrate that only is he fantastic copy and wonderfully entertaining every time he appears. But this is this. Is this guy it spectacle of watching our enemies destroy themselves
media oriented- I'm sorry Christine briefly how big a habit of a strategy is. This means not workin out for CNN right to block now working editors, Cleon ever well. Here's the thing about CNN see: CNN, has not known where to place itself accept. It wants to place itself as not. The left wing network which is MSNBC. Another rightwing wing work which is foxholes in the middle and therefore is a more corporate friendly advertising vehicle and It makes a lot of money, even though its ratings are terrible relative to the two, it's still a very profitable division, which is one of the reasons that Jeff Sucker still have This job, through various changes in the ownership structure of sea corporate apparent because the results are there, I think scene and makes like hundreds of dollars a year in profit and it, as I say it,
tens this weird position, whereas where it is easier to do corporate image, advertising unseen and on the other networks, is there to provocative that their but there's a way in which I think, and even that strategy does not have. It is not a healthy one in the long term, if you look at how this isn't just doesn't just apply CNN. It also applies to previously considered mainstream publications like the Atlantic magazine, for example, they'll, have contributor you gonna give consumers like Gmail Hill it at the Atlantic who says outrageous, on Twitter, and they risk France, always oh she's, just a contributor should she doesn't really affect our brand. But people do associate her statements without brand and in the same way when brain cells, her is like you, pre Lee morally grandstanding, about Fox news? You can't daddy's identify with CNN, and I do think that the conservative critique of the net Work is fair in the sense that you can't really blame,
all Fox news for everything that appears on Fox NEWS, like a crazy guests on Tucker Karlsson, Inner says something crazy wishes what their brought onto do. You know that at times the whole network with- and that also applies to cnn- and I do think that their trying suckers been trying to split the differences entire presidency by allowing others, folks to be extremely Damone is, and people dont like Sanctum money. I don't think they like it in the context of partisan networks which they know what to expect. That's why they watch it on Amazon, busier Fox NEWS, so there have been too were to indictment of the late Roger Ales. One of them obviously relates to his appalling personal conduct and his you know the treatment of women in the b at all of that that really brought him down, but the other is this idea that he was
as in intimated in bed with the Euro, with the Republican Party, as a former republican operative guy work to get to George W Bush elected now that an the thing was the ales and Murdoch and were opposed to trumps becoming the fit, the nominee of the Republican Party. As far as we can tell, and there was a moment in, like this spring were late spring of twelve, Sixteen, when ales basically said well, Obviously none these guys gonna do it. So we better we'd better. Like super but if you remember trumps. Had two main enemies in twenty fifteen twenty. Sixteen one would see a man soccer whom he went after as part of his general me
strategy in this idea. Somehow other sucker was mister, o him fealty, because soccer then head of NBC when the apprentice one on the air? and the other was Spock's. It was Megyn Kelly would remember, Megyn Kelly, but bleeding from her hoo ha or whatever the hell. It was he sad and stuff like that, and this idea that Fox was being disloyal to him and that Fox should pay for the ales famously was supposedly giving behind the scenes, aid and support and advice to republican candidates. Well, in this Michael Collins story. Literally ale, Ka Zocor offers a piece of advice to Cohen, to give to trump about a debate, a republican debate where he says
you know you should do whatever is around Trump today, so to speak. I whoever's around him today should just be calling him a con man all day. So as you do it so that when he hears from Rubio it doesn't matter hey com, a common, a con man, you things that's his name, you know. So basically you guys just like get him used to be called a con man. So I'm Rubio calls him a con man. He can handle it better. So we literally have the head or broadcasts network, giving advice to Trump news network and its not ales. It's not ails. It is Jeff Sucker, which I just think, as is is, is still occurring in the not that he anyone can do whatever they want to do is just a question of who walks around like a cock of the walk, acting like somehow,
you know he's moral and his rivals and enemies are terrible, so as or fall out here. Does he whether on his fine? I that's gonna, be a very, very interesting question about how this. Hours because of course, so many people in media it. You know what a contract a commentator contract? So many of you Who deserve offer these opinions are. Are you now find themselves in a position where they they that they're gonna find it difficult to attack because they they have skin in the game had been hoo? Hoo ordinarily would offer this kind of attack Brian Stella
right, so it'll be like a saddle. The interesting it'll be interesting to see it some it's it's a pretty startling event, as all I'm saying given given the given, so that's the first waste on their own, tart. The second enables particularly excited about this is the announcement by the Academy of Motion picture arts and sciences of new set of guidelines that it will be necessary for films to meet if they, are to be nominated for academy awards, beginning with the US, ceremony that takes place in twenty twenty four, so that, basically, two years from now or two and half years from now on. What is what is it that is being called upon here? What is that
What is the academy say? It is now going to require films to do if they are to be nominated. They have to submit, I think, privately to the academy, a description of how they are being inclusive and diverse, along of course, identity. I'm in order to be eligible for an academy awards for this. So this is, I mean, you know this is a total institutional shaping of the entertainment industry, because for movies and call a huge chunk of culture generally there, the Oscars really is the game. I mean not because you had, you have to win one in order to try to be a successful producer director or anything like that. But, but that is the goal is to get, is to be among those now
made it name. That's that's! That's! For the attention is, that's the distribution, that's that's the that's where he beat that's where the stars are made so now in order to end for the game. You have to play identity politics too, the satisfaction of the motion Picture Academy officially. And this is yet again and american version of what happened during the Chinese cultural revel, cultural revolution in the Sixtys and Seventys, during which MAO's wife, Jan King, was put in charge of all performance and performing arts in in China, an sheet took took that ran men particularly changed chinese opera re, making it into
revolutionary opera, there were eight model operas a that were permit and these were all they had the view rules they had rules just like the academy will have rules. These were these. They had to be about revolutionary themes. They could no longer be about AIDS chinese mythology or Confucianism, because the mouse ought to eradicate before old, old culture, old ideas or beliefs and old forget the last for all but death, impractical, thither, they're, all almost in synonyms emulates, but based basically, they D, be, as I say that in the last piece, I repeat, the tire mental life of the establishment of life of the country,
so this is this is right out of the mouth playbook. Once again, these these, the movies, will have to be on our revolutionary themes, which are identity. The identity and identity. So I have a question about these rules, though, if they're going to be doing this identity, politics being canning in order to be viable, admit, admissions, fur I can be a worn consideration. What does this mean for the people the discussion was about what happens behind the camera, but what about the ongoing debate raging in Hollywood right now about how to whether or not turn and actresses can portray things that not in front of the camera right. We ve seen this, particularly with regard to trans roles, the idea that a non trans actor should never play a Trans role and the kind of weird Moebius stripped like logic that this sends you down. When you actually making a film about someone who becomes trans like who plays the before, and I mean it, it becomes kind of confusing. So I'm curious if this is also going to apply
to the standards for identity politics at their measuring roles or the people playing their roles, as these are two very different things, the others there's no end of it. Woollen? Inevitably another one be another one of those examples where, once you gave in and tried to appease the mob and play by the rules they will get when the straight I mean there's this, it's been ongoing for some time in entertainment, where you know, if you bend over backwards to create some social justice project, in a movie, let's say if you want to make a movie about their civil rights movement. Well, that's great, whose directing it is the director black person of color. Oh, it's a white! Well, why would you have all I white El directing a movie about a black feminist, for example, or something like that.
It never ends and when, once once, you start playing their game, they will. They will fight. And all the the chinks in the armor and go after you ok, so as part of this just because you have to laugh to keep from crying was This report, in the allay times in later times, reported that the these standards will be enforced, bia spot checks of sets. Now it can be found it difficult to someone's ethnicity right I mean it's, it's not something it appearances. Can ambiguous, so what's really needed here. My view is a system of barriers, and then you can wear your your ethnic identity, honor your sleeve, maybe you're on your own lapel or maybe run a pencil through someone's hair. So we have the proper tensile strength. You know these are all very I shall be as to all in the name of an enlightenment, and anti racism, too, were to enforce a proper standards here.
Ok, look! Here's what I want to say I enjoy this. I am. I am delighted by this I'm delighted by this. For this reason, for forty fifty years we have been getting lectures on the proper constitution of the american experiment by Hollywood by a lot of these people who have never going to college, have never read a book. You know who are who are in positions that therein, because they are candy and ruthless. If there, behind the scenes there really good, looking and have some kind of weird indefinable charm if they are in front of a camera and they think because of their position, making popular entertainment that day are they are. It is proper and in fact, expect
it s good for them to deliver themselves of their opinions about how America should be run in constitute right. Ok, so here we are. This industry is overwhelmingly liberal and overwhelmingly democratic God that was how much money biding is going to raise this year alone. Obama, of course, has Obama, Anne and his wife. We have a hundred million plus dollar deal with Netflix and on and on and on documentaries, hey geographic documentaries about eight o c and Stacy Abrams, and God knows what. But let's talk about how this industry actually does what it does. Ok in a world in which feminism and sort of the idea of a gang of of legality carrion roles between us,
access has them, you know it is now like half a century old. Ninety two percent of all Hollywood productions are directed by men. Ninety two percent, according to some calculations, seventy five percent of the dialogue spoken in american movies is spoken by male care actors. Movies are made overwhelmingly for male audiences, based on the theory that boys, particularly teenage boys, are the most valuable and easily defined audiences, and that the world is only interested in male entertainment, action, staff, superhero stuff. All of that, and therefore in the golden age of Hollywood, when there were there was one or two there were one or two female directors. Are there were a bunch of screenwriters mow? It was close to fifty fifty whether the fair was designed
to be seen by a male audience or a female audience. There were female movie stars of equal power to male movie, stars movie. Were made with subject matter. That was equally appealing to different to both tenders and now overwhelmingly. That is not the case. Despite the fact that we have had half a century of a servant, doctrine of sexual, the galloping sexual and gender egalitarian ISM very few movie studios, have ever been run by women? There aren't that many female produce, their way more than there used to be, but the simple fact of the matter, is that this is an industry that an end that women so lets them. We can go on and talk about, race, okay, so the doctrine. Hollywood is that movies and tv shows, and things like that that focus on themes relating to black people and African Americans are niche.
Are of doubt of of necessity, are gonna, be smaller, but because people outside the United States, don't like seeing movies about black people and because white people in the United don't like movies about black people. The second part of that is demonstrably an unbelievably on, through write. What, as several of the biggest movie stars of the last twenty years or black, Will Smith Denzil Washington, the rock I mean you know you can go on and on and on and and You know among those profitable movies ever made. Are the movies are based on a relative to budget? Are things like get out made by Jordan Peel movie about race relations, a survey, the harm movie, their race relations, his second movie us the. Isler Perry Movies, which are really are made almost exclusively for black audiences, so basically, how
wood has continued for for decades to be a sexist racist world, in which ninety percent of the people walk around thinking that there that, because they can get cause, they have enough money that they can give it a Democrat and say that they hate Republicans that they are somehow exam from the rules that the cultural rules that they have been weighing over everybody's head forever, That's right! You need to call this from the beginning. Just a painter scheme were willing to eventually to pay off scheme. Does this happen? No Jesse Jackson did this, and in on Wall Street in the nineteen eighties. What's gonna happen, there are these four categories of diversity, which wit, which has actually thought through to some degree, because of course, how diverse can you being for the camera if you're making movie said seventeenth Century England like it, you can have a lot of black people in it, so the ideas
What do you care of a movie that can a black people in it? There should at least be a bunch of black people behind the camera working on sats working on you know of fatigue, if we are producing whatever saw. How are they gonna do this, but not just like people by the way people of color lay according to the list is you know, Hispanics algae B, T kill the peat people with disabilities slap lacking. Sir letter let's relaxed rights, I had not known not Hispanics anymore, unless your hispanic and then it's a span we're out of your advantage, been letting right. Ok, so so these categories, so how are they gonna end up making sure that these that these productions fill the you know, pass muster they're gonna higher, consult, there's gonna, be an entire consultancy business.
Rises, probably started by uber max candy or by Robin. The Angelo were somebody like that. Who will be paid off by the movies I'll, be a line in the movie budget for diversity, Diversity, management and they'll get a million dollars and they'll send three or four people to set is at they will they will keep half a million of the million and they will then pay the other half a million to six or seven people who will be sent to the sad who will be given phony bologna jobs and be in the cry executive
these are, which is, I think, what right that the old answering minority tripod, like it oh assistant to the rector of Cinema, time or fear whatever, and and and they will not all the eyes and cross the t s any, and this diversity industry will therefore have every reason to certify that these productions pass muster because they're gonna make an enormous amount of money, oddities productions by by paying off the diversity Polly. But John Unions started this conversation by saying you're happy about this for your entertained by this, and I want to ask why? Because I I'm not I'm I'm I'm horrified and because it also it's gonna, just translate into worse entertainment for us, because there are there projects that are gonna be scrapped that are scrapped since, since this announcement you know because no one's going to bother to make.
A movie? That's that's, not gonna, take the enough for the right boxes and to add to that real quick. Having read the other aspect, we should mention it's not just domestic identity attacks. But if you look at how Hollywood is dealing with China right now, literally, you have movies two years like Disney, who claim out of on the moral high ground that they can't film in the state like Georgia, because it has a fatal heartbeat like the Disney disagrees with, but little thanks I province in China, that is hosting weaker content training camps and films near thickets of patient ass, a mediocre like I get off the boat. Okay. Well, here's what it now, if, if I'm right in the most cynical reading, is that Dell hired does, though those they'll be this creation of this diversity? In this that will be paid off to make sure that everything works that then fine given doesn't work if, if, in fact, the activists wise up and down and that the real activists, the ones who really want whose very change aren't so easily bought off. Then
this world of these frat boy, network executives and studio executives and independent producers, and People like that are going to find themselves under real pressure for the first time in their lives to put their money where their mouth is, and not to walk around with this disgusting attitude that you know, everybody else needs to queue to politically correct standards, but they can do or say, a and b whatever they want to be because it is it for some reason. The entertainment industry is an industry that rewards sociopath e in a way that very few others do, because Nobody really knows how things become. Successes are failures because nobody really understands what a good movie is. Our best
because almost all successes are due to a kind of dumb lock, except in very few cases where you have been a really visionary producers like this guy Kevin Fiji, who is that old guy? You know every generation makes two or three of them, and otherwise everybody else is just sort of a crack plain craps rolling dice through led its Keno, and so basically they have no standards. They don't want any standards, they pay themselves off, they pay each other off, and so let them now, as I say, and then at the Oscars they archly
talk about themselves as though they are just the most wonderful people on earth full of their high morality and all that, so is a terrible that were breaking down and caught reconstituting as this kind of diversity culture. Yes, is it fun to watch Hollywood go into the meat grinder the way it keeps avoiding going into the meat grinder Yes, that realistic shore up we have, we got to be more or less than a little bit We have an example of them doing this exact same thing on a smaller scale. Just a few years ago, the times of movement in the make the Harvey Wine Steen. The two movement was supposed to be. Exactly what this is doing more broadly for identity politics, but for women in Hollywood and what we see is it just? As you said John nobody he knows how to make a success, but when somebody does and when they do it more than once as one seemed it with his company for almost a decade, then they are given cover for.
All bunch of sinful behaviour and that continues and everybody covers it up. It's not just that there are one or two people who you know brush. Under the ranch? It is literally an open, open secret in Hollywood, when someone like wine, see the successful because they're all in its similar to what I think no one has said many times about presidencies once someone power, everybody around them is complicit in maintaining power, and so I doubt I actually think, regardless of how much they prosecute these goals and all this into account everything up, and I mean what- little Lunar, Deputized Academy member is gonna follow through on this. It's gonna end up like the times up movement. A kind of
combination of a mayor culpa window dressing, and I dont think that, if someone's vastly successful they're not gonna buy into this idea of just having a front person who claims to be the debt to satisfy the diversity requirement. Look, I think, that's. I think. That's that's true, but I also think that there are things that are true about the motion picture industry that are not true of other industries. I mean this stab that I've decided to that ninety two percent of all actors? Making movies in the United States for major studios are male. That's a real thing like it's not like that in in other elite businesses, half of all doctors are women have evolved. Lawyers are women. You know every corporates. Every corporate sweet in the United States has women
in in in major positions. Now somehow Hollywood was left, it was fine. It's Hell? Five, because you know when you sit down and go in the back room closer like Lena women can really handle the can't really you're, not gonna, be tough and sat there really not gonna, be tough enough and sad- and you know this is a racist country. We can't be making movies about black people, The white people are gonna, go see, then you know Indians and the Chinese that'll like black people, so there are gonna. We can we Green Light, a movie with a black here because I'm not going to make its given make no more except black. Panther which made a billion three worldwide. Every time that it's like that, doesn't count. You know it's like you know. Until twenty eleven there was a general absolutely known thing, which is that our raided comedies could not star women,
because, no wit, nobody would go. Men wouldn't want to see them because their frank way comedies and women one because between vulgar and then bridesmaids came out and made two hundred million dollars, and you know what, when people worth making the, pronouncements in these sweets? They could have been spending ten years, making two hundred billion dollar grossing movies, but but they didn't why? Because it would have upset their apple cart, Cuz, suddenly, they would have had to be dealing with a whole set of new new ideas. Like you know, what it's like movies made by women, could account for half the box office. You now having a bunch of euro jewish guys from the Pacific Palisades running ever
motion picture business. Might not. It might not be necessary for them to be the ones who are running the business. Somebody else might have some, but that's all I'm saying is like this is one place in which the kinds of accusations about corporate America's hostility toward race and gender, which I think largely unfair, this very liberal, very left wing industry, deserves every criticism to get on this front.
And it's all a protection racket for themselves? That's why I'm happy, even though its bad, it's really terrible, don't get me wrong. It's too. It is terrible that people are going to be standing there right, as those said like looking to see who has frizzy hair on set. But as I mean I first reaction when I read this was this is done a visible, but it's not about content, really any we're not talking about the count, That's right! You don't even have to enforce that. It's not like, though, the codes, whatever those codes were that were lasted until nineteen sixty eight or a certain amount of certain content was pre screening, that of screenplays, but it's not really about the content of the production per se. We're not talking about certain themes that
to be advanced as though you would have the police that it's sort of an unspoken stigma against in producing art. That is counter revolutionary, but nevertheless you know it's not it's not a content mandate on Hollywood, it's just about the make up of these production sites in the production themselves. So it's not soviet realism per se, but yeah, but you know what are you, but you don't have the mandate that, because this is if it is done of ism it's coming from below its not being imposed on these companies. This is something that this is the the revolution from below and so did the stigma that forces. It is social not legal or governmental, but can I also just complain I'm a little more on Abe cited this like I, don't actually enjoy because I feel like there are so many aspects of r r leisure time,
our leisure activities that have been infected with israeli there's a whole, we could do it Our show about what's happened to professional sports. Obviously- and this is while our kind of politicization of something that shouldn't be politicized in this way, not to say that you can make a poem local film- I mean those can be very useful documentaries as such, but the idea that Absolutely every aspect of this has to be managed in this identity. Politics way is, is that it makes me sad in part because the same group of people who argue vigorously and contemptuously about a previous centuries moral codes right that they were all those rules about. You know studios had for their own employees, in particular for their stars about how they could behave their private lives, and it was all managed that was seen as just completely ridiculous and- and you know terribly, you know puritanical. So the funny thing is this is another strain of puritanism.
But it's accepted and endorse because it gives you know they think it satisfies what constituency are they satisfy? No cause, it's not their audience. It's the same thing I want to say to professional sport and secure not actually making people happy by making column capper neck a maiden football up, when everybody knows it was a terrible quarterback tuition it signalling, but who do they signalling to aren't they self signalling? I it's a genuine question- I really don't know who they think is the audience for this. But ultimately this is the question about. Social stigma and and and that which is acceptable socially, is that when you have explosion of virtual signalling, like this? In the wake particularly of you know, George Floyd
I just as you have it in the wake of the times up moment with Harvey One's name. What what you get is people wanting there to be changes in their the seventy that they can point to so that they feel better about this house. I don't know how Ulster, how else to describe it as a safe, safe reform right, not real reform. While I mean it you know. In the case of enough there was a story, as I recall in England, now turn remembered the details that british publishers, I believe, a couple of years ago, announced that a bite
twenty five, where the writers gilded England, somewhere that that that all publications of books and things like that needed to conform reflect the social makeup of society, so that, under those circumstances, if Britain was you know, experts sent this and why percent? That and g per cent is that every publishing house was supposed to publish in accordance with those numbers and things now that's a terrifying fact. Sins of course, the sole criterion. The two criteria for publishing a book should be a: is the book good or be? Will the book cell right those it to you now? Is that the two? Those are can be often me two weeks was there, but when a book sells it can support the publication of a book that is good. That's not gonna sell right that that's part of the structure of many
thus benefit even on the publication of fifty shades of great trilogy, I'm just because it had out their international any writers. Well well. Well put so, but I mean so that's it that's a terrifying thing and of course, if everything ends up at hearing to of formulas like that, you know it's, it's. It's the it's the death of thought, it's the death of quality to the vote in the US, but a by want to put you on the spot here from one one I told the story before, but a couple of years ago I assigned you an article to right on the war in the mirror and unmarried meritocracy, and you went off sir reading about meritocracy and and and why a meritocracy is important. Then, after, like two months, he came back to me and you said I can't write this piece. I can't write this peace Why did you say you couldn't writer? I think there are two main reasons. One was that the meritocracy as we took it to be was not
functioning, very cleanly as meritocracy, in that there were so many ways to gain the system for Those of means this is this is in particular regarding yeah school admissions in college admissions and things that them merit meritocratic, Prince wasn't really operating, and the second was that the entire system that the meritocracy FED was itself. This anti meritocratic propaganda machine right. It was all about getting into a bunch of schools and institutions that then preached and re educated. To tell you,
how non meritocratic, how anti meritocratic the american system actually was. So it was it this. It was that the seeds of its own destruction were roads. Were there the whole time right? Well, that's exactly what the story is a holiday yes. It's a whole them saying, and I mean this is this: is the this is the danger of are two hundred and forty, here. Experiment here is that is that term, why the reason that that one of the reasons that the system is under stress and is in crisis is that some of these criticisms that a lot of us were inclined to dismiss it simply some part of composed sixties anti
american nonsense garbage. It turns out that there are aspects to them that we all have to take kind of seriously, which is that if you have a an admission system for elite universities, that does put the finger on the scale not only of legacies, which them of course creates a almost an aristocratic, system where prevent where, where position is handed down, not just money but social position is granted by these institutions is handed down from generation to generation, but also that the very ideas in that area, that aristocracy than petals. These ideas that have the weird effect Maintaining that staff policy, even though the
ideas are not some kind of weird jesuitical esoteric system where all the privileges maintained, while attacking the notion of privilege? Well and literally, that's why we had these radicalized wealthy kid throwing molotov cocktails cops in the street the summer like that is your you, that's the end game where either her right into their parents Second Connecticut Estate in the most recent. Yet I mean it's a very where we find ourselves in a very strange position here, because the the counterculture became the culture. The counterculture was anti competitive anti capitalist anti you achievement. Let's say you know, Cima, with some kind of trap, middle class, worthwhile trap
was the serve the sixties, preachment and now you have this loss of all of that. That is layered onto savagely capitalist savagely, unequal systems. Of perpetuated privilege, that's a real thing. It's just that when they talk about white privilege, they talk of inner when, when the left talks about white privilege is always talking about some, you know lower middle class. Kid who doesn't have any privilege- and it's not talking about the people who themselves are privileged talking about how dangerous white privilege is, which is the actual danger right. I am in. That's the that's that's the oddity I mean this is a. This is a conundrum. It's a it's a it's a paradox and it's very hard
to get your mind around so, as I say in some sense, if, if the pressure is being put on them and not an US, appreciate it appreciated a little bit. Cuz, I'm not going to defend them. You know what's up where we going to stand here and say this is terrible, it's just absolutely terrible that you know David Geffen and Steven Spielberg, and you know who are you know hosting fundraisers for people who want to destroy the very system that made them you now billionaires or whatever you know are- are now gonna have to jump through some hoops to say, let us by the demands of the people that they are in power. That's all you got to say How should we turn to raw? But should we just turn now to get our conventional bland politics? Are we have one more Picard voice,
that I don't know what's that its paradigm here, but yes, it's one that I would like to submit as a potential candidate for the card wasting witches the tale of Jessica Grub. This was the circular. And its professor who pulled a race shifting. Act. I dont know how else to describe it. What was the name of the woman whose very famous foregoing Rachel those Rachel goal of Rachel holds out on, so she did a Rachel dolls L. She lived her life as a woman of color when she was not and advanced through the ranks of the academy as a result of her assumed identity, and was she self cancel? She came Having said that, I should- and this is a quote- I should be cancelled and proceeded to cancel herself
So she threw herself on the pyre saying she was seen fraud and what have you announce now lives in dignity? but would people I've been going back into her record and found that she was fair Radical and one of the cliffs that is making the rounds is her at this academic conference using three Polly Syllabic Academic Jargon, which doesn't really say anything that constitutes a secret handshake and allows you to believe that you are part of this club. In which she delivers a very high minded defence of a and an attack fifteen year old boy in New York in which he was machete heed to death for the crime of being a part of this youth organization which worked with police, which worked with the online pity, and she said it in
the couch terms that as a sort of bad right, but we don't talk about the conditions that resulted in in his murder, the implying very clearly to everyone's years that this was something that was justified. It was justified, retributive murder, because he was working with authority figures, and this is dawning on people upon whom it can't on who, having the cognitive ability to recognise immorality of these kind of comments. That how is it that this woman managed to swim through the ether of the academy in the humanities for so long while a spy
using these views, but yet had could not sustain it. Her her career could not sustain the shock of than notion that she was white, and that was the sin that resulted in her defenestration and when I was researching my boy. Can I steeped myself in this world of really delightful, morbid apology for violence and incitement to violence in the name of a political activism, and it is disturbing that common, particularly in academia and humanities, when they dont perceive themselves to be in a room full of mixed company that they allow themselves to indulge in these fantasies of the most retributive revolutionary street violence on an end, the couch it in academic terms to make it appear more legitimate,
near. It doesn't take a long time to get down to the student level who do who cannot reproduce that kind of language, and it is just as ugly and atrocious and and and murderous and violent as any other street. That would be talking about these kinds of activities, and you have to think that at a certain point, because all this languages migrating from the economy, at the academy in into society writ large- that this stuff is gonna, follow soon enough it of if it's not here ready that what they did fascinating thing about Craig story like dollars. L story is the weary another. What their being condemned for particular by people of color, is their basically minstrelsy right. They live their lives as professional minstrels, but they believed it right. Well at least tell us our claim so believed at you. I don't know what this crop. I believe that all but the, but the strange, thing is how they must date. They both took on as well
a political ideologies of you, no more progressive minded people of color as part of their identity, and they work that was actually but they and they were quite public about ITALY dollars. I was ahead of an end de Lacey, p chapter in this chrome woman was, you know, a very active scholar in a lot of these. You know, identity. Politics feel so what's interesting to me as if they clearly both thought there would be social benefit to passing as black, and that's a very strange historical reversal in this country from what used to be passing, which was when light skinned african Americans would try to passes white and other ethnicities tried. It passes that so that the path the shift in just you know a couple: gender patients of what? What bet social benefit comes from passing is just fascinating as a kind of cultural chain. I think I think, there's another element at work here, which is that people on the left especially in academia, but media
are more reluctant to condemn a purse? of color, who preaches and flirt with violent rhetoric, than they are to do so when it comes to what to white person. And this also listen you to take this back entertainment for one for one moment The world of rapid Hiphop stills, pretty much gets a pass on me too, and racism and dig three in violence and all the rest of it right social, social crag under her her invented identity. Was enjoying some some of that. Some of that freedom temporarily. Ok, I'm really is a very real use, a very high at a very low example, to describe what I think is going on the high example not high, but high and serve social standing, was the Whitney biennial by any ill of ninety. Ninety three, the
The most I ask level expert and told modern art exhibit in the United States, and it was kind of the an annunciation of the role in which lets called identity carrying art was going to play henceforth because an artist named dangle Joseph Martinez and had created This thing that everyone had to put on when they went into the biennial. It was a button and the button said I can't imagine ever wanting to be white and sense. Of course everybody went to the Whitney biennial. Ninety, maybe three
the white, they were all wearing this button. That said, I can't imagine ever wanting to be white now. What was the meaning of this? The meaning of this was, of course, quite the op was supposed to be quite the opposite. It was supposed to be it so great to be white that you know why? Wouldn't anybody just wanna be what now yours are being put in a position of thinking through what it might mean to be a person of color, because who would choose to be personal color in America if they could choose otherwise. So that's one part of the end. The audit fluid in which the attitudes, the Jessica Craig you know, then gab enough was birth Dan and then a rose from comes from the other is a very low. It would be the third season.
Of the real world. The MTV series and two culturally prominent people appeared on the first episode of that one Rachel Campos now, a leading conservative pondered, the wife of the former congressmen Sean Duffy from Wisconsin mother of nine she's on Fox all the time and she was there as a conservative latina and so she's on there on a train, thereby sandwiches go she one, and the second is address Zamora, who was a cuban gay guy who had aids and so
then there was a third, a young woman of white blonde woman, whose name I can't remember, and as Petros talking about being gay sexuality, any as AIDS and then Rachel's talking about being a routine. I'm you now growing up with her her away like this and then the other thing. The white girl that nineteen twenty euro. White girl burst into tears and she says I'm so boring, I'm so boring. I don't have anything, I'm just wide, I'm so boring, and I thought this was that this is a very striking kind of them. You know in that that told you something about America in the ninety nine these, that it was no longer. No longer a circumstance in which being a person I do know if you're going.
These are the person tv you, you know it was already clear. Two hundred and twenty two, this young woman that she was going to be an also ran. She was a supporting player. She wasn't going to be a star because she was just a white girl and she had nothing else to offer because here was up in a pretty latina, I'm here was a you know, a guy with AIDS, and she was just nothing: But what did signalled was an interesting if it is an interesting cultural moment right because its when a lot of critical racing hurry. Engender theory was really becoming entrenched in the academy, but was still kind of hadn't trickled down into into you know, mainstream thinking yet, but the but the impulse to perform to first hit to figure out one's identity on those kinds of care. Risks and then to publicly perform. It was still only largely relegated to public figures and Hollywood types
now and in large part the internet of aided and abetted, doesn't certain social media did now, everybody is constantly performing their identity right and in that context it makes dollars Ellen Crag. Actually, the logical conclusion the exception, because the demand to perform one's identity is constant and its now something everyday Americans are expected to do and if they don't there at least spected to sign onto others performance of their identity, Portugal, it's about rates, her sex there's something I doubt it is expected to constitute added to it to impart some immutable traits. There was this story a couple of years ago about to care costs, which is this book review. Kirk Cherkis Railway reviews books and there is some in young. Adult literature has been rocked by that social justice mania for a long time and so curious and institutes. This policy, whereby
reviewers of books have to have a particular identity that allows them to review these books. If the book is about peep Muslims or observant, really Just people were, people color. What have you has to be reviewed by them cuz? Otherwise you could get a skewed. View call their own voices policy, and I mean that we used to call a prejudice right. The notion that you could understand a person to believe what's in a person's heart, her mind, based on the stereotypes associated with their culture for external features, that's bigotry, but it somehow become enlightened and is now being codified into alleys cultural stand. It's mine, rang on before my reflecting a law incorporations hr policy, they call it did the same. That is lived experience. You have to acknowledge the lived experience of someone, a color or a woman, or it so, but what live
is there any that gentleman is any action by a kind of we get back to Jessica Crook? Let's here's the thing, so you read to her by her thing where she said: should be cancelled. Now, of course, it's almost certainly the case that she did. This of revelation because she was about to be exposed. Someone was gonna, someone was gonna drop, the dirty dime on her, and so she decided to get her last licks in being up a famous notorious person herself, rather than having visited upon her nonetheless Ah, you read in your like she's crazy. She must be crazy person. Look at her. She walks around pretending to be an afro latina. She get she yells of people live in her apartment building calls people, you know, calls a neighbour a crazy wipe it steals her packages. You now goes on this virtual city council meeting in New York in
June of this year, posing as of Le Tina and, unlike you know, says, Jews are terrible, even though she herself has actually a Jew, and you know there is railways. Are training, cops to kill people at so she must be crazy, But why must she be crazy? It worked did NED, I mean she's. Ten Europe, Professor George Washington University, Professor, she had a book published in twenty eighteen that was nominated for two major awards in the worlds of race and critical theory, it worked her scam, work to rethink the scale hoax ebbing. They it does work and work for dollar. So for a long time as well,
I mean right of race erase doesn't exist along a spectrum and confer a certain immutable traits. You should not be able to portray that race if you're, not that right, I mean have you can't if, if these things are so self evident, you shouldn't be able to pass as somebody who's up adopting of identity. Ah you shouldn't and of course you're not once you, oh you mean because you shouldn't, because its Everybody should judge your self evident. Ok, I think about weed out. No. This is the fascinating thing about the internet age. You know when people wanted to disappear and turn themselves into somebody else before Nineteen sixty it wasn't so sixty you know, I mean this is the whole Leda myth of the wild West is that people went there.
Are you now, after they killed a man in the EU, still workers who would know they change their name. Nobody's got birth certificates nobody's, got social security number there's no identity, there's no way approve of daddy people just turned themselves into. Somebody else became somebody else. Now it's almost impossible because every there's a wreck everybody. There's a history with everybody. Everybody has a social security. One from birth they have driver's licence is I'm using Jessica crew would have kept the name Jessica, crook if she could have changed to something else. She couldn't that's the one thing she couldn't change. Christine said you read somewhere that she didn't go back to some family funeral, because she was worried that somebody would out each she would be out in it by by someone so sheet. She would do whatever she could take, keep herself a parcel. Yet so all I'm saying is like. You don't know how many billions of people play this game all the time Jews are played it
from time immemorial- and you know if you were, if you were jealous male. There was always a problem because of circus skittish YO when when everybody wasn't circumcised could become pretty clear whether or not you were whether now you're a Jew. But people passed forever and now you're only knots was to be able to pass because races and immutable construct, but I'm and nobody ever because no one could ever imagined wanting to be black nineteen hundred, I'm sure white people didn't go around pretending to be black until now, but you now being able to have your identity fool around with your identity as part of its Shakespeare's doubling like it's every plot device known to man, people pretending to be other people, that's what comedy all comedies of of of of errors are based on people. Turning to be other people about this, it's a transitional phenomenon and and raw
to those all and Jessica, Crook and so there are a few others out there that are yet to be out in these are people who, as left wing academia transitions entirely into a practice whereby your identity is. The message, is the meat I am a bull there will be no. What what sort of future do you have? What can you work on if you are but a white hearing last scholar on the left, you, you can't be you PETE, they there's a there's resentment for what they call the white saviours right. You can't be one of those rare and you don't have an interesting story to play with, as as your topic, a Youtube as you yourself, so we're we're getting it that the last few of the of the white cohort who went into the internet game, the ones who are trying to who are trying to pass
as as people of color and more exotic people will be added and then from then on in while no longer had less about this is a possibility. Reverse apartheid or reverse it out were racial theory according to which you are going to have to prove that you have a drop of blood at your head. You have a right, I mean the that you know it's sort of the what what God Elizabeth Warren was that indian tribes actually do have. Genetic markers should be included in this group of people trying to pass through some yet ethically exaggerating earlier. Had here's tears why this isn't gonna happen because Elizabeth Worn wasn't got by anything. This is all a status game
for white people to probably primarily for way people too at this point is, as John said, protection racket, so the second it begins to threaten their status. Then it becomes a much more viable people. Well, I'm just saying that is viable accept people. What is Now, when you go to some yeah, you gotta some convention of Africa american race theory? You know if there are conventions and after covered, but you'll go to some mention are people gonna like be each other. You no law King after I mean I worked with a, I worked with a guy in the washing in times of the nineteen eighties named David males who died. Tragically, he ended up becoming a very successful television writer heat
He he and I worked together on on a package of stories that, as that led to the firing of Professor Griff from public enemy. So he was a. He was again. He worked with David site and then I started the wire they work together at the University of Maryland. So David was black. I wrote for the universe. American paper came to work at the washing I was he did these stories. They were amazing and he was very light skinned and when he did this package that you now serve caused this crisis in public Professor Griff went on some radio show and said I didn't know he was a brother. I thought he was greek. He looked Greek to me and now
but I know, is a brother he's a trader like you know, if you were if he were, if he had been Greek, it would have been just what I would have expected from some greek God. But that's not you know, that's not the story here. So what? If they went to the National Association of Black journalists and twenty twenty one. After these stories would people. The eyeing him wondering whether he was there under false pretences that he was passing as black. To help himself, I mean that's where that's where this all starts getting crazy. It's like this, the amazing story anyway, I will go into that, so I guess we're running we're running very long, but basically
everyone has been voiced on everyone's Picard and and and everything is just a terrible and you should all be crushingly morose, because everything is terrible. Even if Hollywood is going to suffer and it's fun to watch Jessica Crew get, destroyed. So I had to end on alone out, because this has been so spirited and kind of a fun conversation, and we haven't even talked about a pole is now great, and I was going there than Noah switch directions rescued at rescued us from a conversation about the pall. So will probably talk about pulse tomorrow Ah, I do want to say one thing, though, before we go look at the New York Times. Corona virus tracker were now to three weeks of negative numbers on case growth and deaths, and the deaths are going down in below five hundred.
Day and lower. Still, I it's a matter of time before the Sturgis rally kills at least two hundred fifty thousand Americans yeah yeah. We haven't even gotten into that like that to BS study of all bs studies, and what about the one that says we're gonna have five hundred thousand DAS by December, hundreds thousands yeah the eye. Jimmy model, which has been so successful that people, report in I we can't go. We have so for Christine able now, I'm John by words, the government.
Transcript generated on 2020-09-10.