Welcome to the Commentary magazine podcast today's Tuesday January twelve, twenty twenty one- I am John POT words the editor of commentary with it has always senor. Rather Christie rose and high Christine at an executive. A green while hey how jump and Souci had editor nor rock behind our job, you guys, know the famous definition of of the word hotspots.

Which is the the man who kills his parents and then throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan, I am seeing a great deal of hot spa in calls from the frumpy right on Joe Biden. Democrats, essentially to show mercy and to bring unity going forward. What kind of unity is this that Bide Miller Democrats are proposing when they're talking about impeachment? That's not unified people who supported or did not attack or did not fight against the disunity that Donald Trump introduced into our political system? Not just from twenty sixteen onward, but after the election in November that he lost fair and square by the exact same electoral total that he one in twenty sixteen and

It was incumbent upon him both as a as a leader and as a human being allowed to play this losers game, but did and so tackled in some quarters empty This him and other quarters, and. Terrified of his voters in other quarters were enormous numbers of Republicans, a tiny fraction of elected Republicans. A tiny fraction of foam likely believed that the election was stolen in the way the trump talked about it, because you know radiance, among other things, that now they have the nerve to try to fight against the impede the argument. The trumps should be a peach to remove, on the grounds that this

not can contribute to national unity in the wake of the crisis, the trump himself promulgated instigate it had incited and effectively led. That's that's! That's a good one I understand the passion on the part of your argument, John and when I'm about to say extremely popular, but why stop now the It is incumbent upon Democrats

If we really one way out of this crisis and not a talking point to display magnanimity and to virtue Republicans, had a literal guns at their head at this moment from from supporters now they gave it to him, they loaded it they caught it, they put it to their own heads, it's their fault. Nevertheless, if you want to give them an offer from the sort of thing you have an end for the better, the better of the country as a result, you have to provide them with terms that are favourable to them that they can accept if the objective here is merely to force them into their corners to force them to own trump, which is a politically adroit instinct on the part of Democrats, if they think it's a politically a politically detrimental thing for Republicans to be tarred with association with Trump you'd want them to associate themselves with Trump and that's the way you do that is distorting the men maneuver. We were talking about yesterday, trying to expel these members associating them with the confederacy, giving them ever

reason they have to retreat to their respective corners and that's what we don't want. Any interests of national unity is politically at that age us for Democrats to do that, but it would be disastrous for national comedy, ok, but let let's I'm I'm not. I don't disagree that it is important to knit up the net up. The frayed garment, of american politics and american society, but that does not mean that those that the person who incited the disunity and call as the riot that led to the death to the murder of at least one person, and you know, contributed to the so for others of the dead person than is its justice You don't say that in the interests of equanimity, we're not going to try somebody for a crime or we're not going to hold someone accountable. That is what the

arguments being made Kim Strasser. My friend the Wall Street Journal says why I bit Biden any day had this is the way Biden begins if he wants to. The theme of american unity. What's the point here? Is it is it? Is it Herr Hamlets, father, saying of hamlet of his mother, leave her in a heaven. Leave trump leave trouble oh, you know, he's he'll, be he's been punished enough or something like that. Baby we're gonna get out of there being united wishes. I'm here that I dont believe that I've others either side is interested in unity. For for peace,

for reasons anyway, I mean you know that the that, as an inner no points, I guess it would. It would be great for the country, but politically Democrats, don't don't need this debate. They won isolate Trump. They want to point out to the country the the unique threat that he will continue to be and the truth is Republic prompted. The Trump base wants this fight to continue anyway. They don't they don't. The last thing they would ever want to see is anything resembling unity. Unity is poison to them. The unity at a giant, genuine political unity, of a kind that we would love to see would for them be like the calculation of the entire right right. I mean

you know all of branches are absolutely anathema well. This is a very specific. They didn't want unity that they, they just don't necessarily wanna, see Trump impeach although they might they also unhappy. There was this weird moment right between before last Wednesday, and where the results the Georgia special election came in, where a slightly I'm saying this in a slightly chastened democratic House majority realise that they had actually had some response from America's voters and that markets. Voters marked a hundred percent on board with their progressive project, and there was discussion and arguing about that within the carcass. That was a logistical and fur, but for the for the tromp folks, to look to look at what happened in between that moment where there was actually some some, not, I wouldn't even say humility, but they were slightly, to say now after the leader. Their party and their president in fomented. An insurrection there has to be consequences,

Actually, the person I'm gonna play now, I think Biden has done very well. He stayed out of that. She hasn't talked about impeachment. He's basically said: let Congress do what Congress needs to do like pence? Is the person right now who should probably be not energy mix, the president yesterday, and evidently they had some sort of cordial meeting. How do you have a cordial meeting with someone who seek the mob on you to kill you? I mean it's a very strange Robin well there, cordial meeting, but I think it's pretty pretty clear that whoever is in the pants camp Mark short the tries to having a man from the wider Something is leaking like crazy journalists, this right about trumps behaviour in the White House in the fact that people trying to reach him on the hill, meaning pants during the riot and that he wouldn't take. The phone call has taken is the having private orgasms watching the riots on his behalf. Right I mean you know, you mean that that anecdote is. It is true that that right there is brown

four and removal in about five seconds and that he was sitting there watching television getting calls from speaker of the House, the Senate Majority Leader and his own vice president, were literally under siege across down. We envisage any wouldn't take you wouldn't take the cost, is he was enjoying the spectacle too much and that he is said by the way? Also to regret, as one expects he would second statement that he made where he said. Your violence has no place, I'm all of that money. Have you got that Latvia? The pike I went? I don't even know our aid, but what have you guy said? Oh you know he's gonna be in a pool of saying in twenty four hours that he didn't mean it

right, yeah well did work, he did have kids, it was the work and if it didn't work than he shouldn't have done it because it was went beer whatever. It was that he that he might think. I do think that there is an enormous problem here in how how we're going to reach some kind of equilibrium back in in public life, if, with the rise of the counter narrative from the right that this is being used as an opportunity to destroy whatever is left of the conservative power and authority in the United States deserves. Don't have the media conserves, don't have the universities conserves, don't have the elite

and the, but do you know they had the house in the sad or they had you, that the presidency in the Senate, and now they don't have either and now here they come here. They're coming down the platform on twitter that destruction, the parlor, these corporations and banks and pack saying that they're not going to support the candidates who voted you know to question the results of the election and the idea being, as our friend bench appear said. Yes, we respond gas that you know that that's just this is just the the camels. Nose like this is this. This is the way that they are going to come at the right, so right now. It's politicians who wouldn't affirmed the results of the election on January, sex and and in a month. It will be if you voted for Trump we're going to fire. You die that maybe extreme. That may not really be the way things go. We are talking about seventy five

million people after all, but that's the fear on the right and that itself is a full mentor of disunity that fear and can be used to in our path things up and create this. Sense of grievance that remain it's the most potent force on the political right, even after a twenty sixteen election in which they took, conserves, took the reins of power in the house, the Senate and the presidency an you know found themselves in a dominating position at the state and local levels in the night It states effectively leaving the Democratic Party at that moment in charge of the ten largest cities and their populations am not all that much else. You really think so. Have you think been doing over reaction. I think you can make a case that it's an overreaction. I think it's really case by case basis with which is loegria

the general rate rat response from the private sector to this menace? I think it's a big there's, a big distinction to be made between cunning. access to parlor servers as its actively fomenting insurrection and violent threats against lawmakers and cutting off donations. Republican lawmakers from banks that are two very different things, but there are part of the same reaction I think it can make cases over reaction, but it's an overreaction response to any possible event. That was your responsibility you did. This, I think, probably just about everybody, believes that Democrats suffered in the twenty twenty elections and the farther down the ballot didn't do as well as they would have because of the violence because of the violence in major american cities that they presided over the violent whom they coddled and the failure of the party to make a big bright line distinction between

peaceful protests and right his demonstration and Republicans will suffer. Similarly, we will suffer similar electoral consequences because the public doesn't like this sort of thing, so Democrats have an advantage that they could press in order to get Republicans on board, which is their own self advantage, their own self interest. If you want to win elections again. The sort of thing is anathema come on over but in the house this is the complication with a big sort. You know where people now live geographically in activity to the people they agree with ideologically in a way that was not the case. Ass red must have american history so the Senate involves the other, only ten states or something like that are so dominated by Republicans. You know that that that there,

there is no chance of getting the sailors to be out, were rational, let's say, but in the house it's much much more. Those tromp, partisan, voter affiliation numbers in I don't know a hundred of the house seats cept. Twenty Wade's or more, and so for them there They have to win their own elections, and this is how they, when there are elections and stay in then themselves from being primary by somebody else lab romance unless we chip Roy, who is a republican congressmen from south taxes who had been ten cruises chief of staff, say and in announcing that he would not contest the results of the election that he I'd be signing his own political death warrant. By doing so, and it's just a matter of fact that you can't expect people to

publicly ain't no sign what might their political death warrant something you. Maybe you should for moral reasons and the health and safety of the republic, but they're not gonna, do it. Human nature dictates other eyes and so that the part generically understood to be a bit about its own. Independent force needs to separate itself from Trump, but we ve been saying for years. There is no republican party anymore. There is a fund raising machine that goes by the name of the Republican Party that raises money at the national level and then too tributes at an end, is itself and enriches. It's. You know me, buyers and enriches the hundred and sixty eight members of the Republican National Committee, who are its committee, men and vote on its chairman and all that, but there is the parties. Don't exist anymore, in the same way as independent structures that, as usual, then says you know moulds rather then serve as platforms.

I don't know what the republican Republicans can do when you have this body of people, half the republican caucus that feels itself unable if it were even willing unable to do what necessary to combat and to take advantage of democratic weakness and to combat republican weakness. But I mean: are the Democrats also making a kind of devils bargain here with pride the with private corporations and, in particular, a Silicon Valley, which we talk a little bit about yesterday, but we forgot to know just how intertwined the incoming binding duration is with some of these big tech companies. A lot of the people on this transition team come from these companies. A lot of former lobbyists are going to be staffers in his white house. He's given important positions to them, so I feel like it it's funny who one percent we haven't, hurt us from his work

this morning in the last few weeks about big tack and she had actually been one of the people on the democratic left. Who'd been critical of some of what big tech has proven itself willing to do in these situations, but the democratic and Anna a situation where it if there are consolidating political power at the same time that there can that their eager to have private corporations helping them with that that that could serve as a is appointed backlash for a lot of voters. Even those especially ones, Trump is off stage that that is very concerning to a lot of regular people, the, the other. Your bank is not going to do business with you because of who you voted for. I know what you said this earlier John. It right now, that's an extreme concern, but I think that the events of the past week have given a lot of people that feed and they didn't have happen before they would always sort of roll their eyes and say: oh you're, overreacting, but actually there. There are some examples here that are an overreaction that have held that nobody is challenging. In fact, people are freezing it on the democratic.

Pretty side so that actually has a. I think, long term consequences for the Democrats with their own coalition, but it's very disturbing to a lot of people, and it should be, I think that kind about our is- is extra democratic and it is not something that we were able to manage to try to control beforehand in its even worse now right. Well, it's like the most prophetic statement, in the twenty tens short term advantage, long term destructive effect by Mitch, Mcconnell, response to Harry Red blowing up to filibuster judicial nominees. When he said you will regret, I'm telling you don't do this because you are gonna regret it because we're gonna have this power. Just like you and you're not going to be happy with the result and look at the results. Two hundred or something plus judges, the Trump appointed in just four years. I mean that

that is what happened. So you have this kind of short term gain with the corporations announcing they're going to establish this guilty taciturn. Whenever you Monica loyalty to the republic test on who they're gonna support, which you know if they were saying this about, you know, and he or something like that. We would probably say that that's good! It's a lawless movement. That's you anarchistic it. Going to destroy the fabric of our society, but in this, only the simple fact of the matter is that the members of Congress who on last Wednesday who voted to objective the results of the elections in in Arizona and Pennsylvania are people who are siding with an anarchistic ma.

And so you know I can understand why hallmark, wouldn't want to be associated with them, but it is a question of does hallmark. Then stop selling give out a green cards, I've been homework is a company I'm sure that depends enormously on the business of the seventy four million people who voted for four drop. The hallmarks this movies are being made for hipsters in Brooklyn. I can tell you that much. You know that is not who was watching them and for whom they make fifty a year now, So you know this is that this is a serious. This is a serious game that is, is is being played out also contribute to the problem in part of the problem as a Roman apiece escalated blog. Politics, as we understand it, knows no rational limits anymore. Politics is the brands you

consume in the food, you even the commercials you watching television watch who you associate with and where you decide to move another, that is politics political benevolence, politics properly understood, cannot be addressed remedied in the political arena. And some people become and become to associate with their identity with their ideas. Those two things cannot be divorced from each other, and you have this: now increasing since a paranoia around those ideas. You get what you get here. I mean that the deep politicization of american civilization is the the only means icy of reducing tensions. Here I it's not like us haven't overnight. We ve been doing this to ourselves for four that the development of a decade level for tromp. I really do think, though you know not, Not to be the I mean not to serve come out so strong in every way in this regard, but the the general sense of agreement at the decision to two are removed from from twitter.

And to go at parlors. You know the fact that parlor sits on servers that have effectively thrown it off. And made it impossible for it to exist. It it's all well and good for people to make a free speech case and a serve political. This idea that there's a political attack going on on the right, if ten percent of what we are reading right now is true. That there is talk of age of a giant antics nationwide violent revolt thing on January. Seventeenth that the FBI has let people known stay capitals

but they have that there is a chance or about you know, attacks on, say, capitals, that the FBI has told members of Congress that they should wear bulletproof. Vests and that those bullet professor can be expensive under Congress, rules that all of that is going on. If ten percent of it is true, then this argument about the the M The Silicon Valley attack on the rights of Americans has to be put to one side at a time of emergency. Now, as we said yesterday said like that problem with emergencies. Is that people like Andrew Kamel just love to extend the emergencies or they can have the power forever, but if the emergency extent at least tell September twenty. As of January twentieth,

I don't know that it is that the conservative complaint here outweighs the imminent danger, because we can no longer say that their teacher doesn't exist, will be like saying that there was no threat from ok, I'm sorry to put it this way, but like there was no further threat from all kind after September, eleventh bag. I actually disagree, not not in the severity of the emergency not mean, and I dont dismiss these reports at all. I think this is all true Do you think the second that the private sector step steps in the way it has and in the way the Christine described, I think it is it will only make things worse. I don't I think it's their role and I think it exacerbates the problem. Is this? Keeps up in the same way. We will start to see, I think pretty sure

Lay people saying you know when this first happened. I was against the riders, but now I think they were onto something, because now we are being the siege from all sides of this is no. I think you know your. Your post was excellent yesterday about the political position of everything in the sort of arms race wherein the the everything is becoming a political but not. Politics. This sort of is politics this. This actually turns the be cultural and the private sector aspect of our politics into sort of legislation by other means, and I think and that an blurring that line is, I think, a dangerous step. No matter the the emergency state of affairs It certainly is, but I sympathise with the impulse. These firms have a fiduciary responsibility too,

investors and if they do not want to associate with an insurrection every movement that is not only there. Right, but their obligation there does have to be some consequence. Some social consequence outside the public sector for this kind of behaviour, that's right and natural, and just two Running and there's no there's, no one if there's no reward subsidizing. This kind of behaviour- partial reward was something your obligation to do so. But the way it's been you know, sort of up until now is very often lacking. Investment firms and stuff have, like truth, woke portrait. LEO's, you know. So if the customer chooses to not associate

to not enrich parties that it that it deems beyond the pale? It is there that the customer cat has route to doing that fixes slight. This is slightly different. This is this: is that there's no up? There is no alternative for the can this is a market a market place and you're allowed to make those kind of decisions that Noah's describing, which I think is correct, then has to be somewhere else. They can go, but now the places they could go are also being shut down and parlors actually suing Amazon Web services. They ve lawsuit already saying you can't shutters down. There is no alternative for us, so I think that's actually where people start to feel painted into a corner hand in it like under siege, raises easily happen, and- and I agree, John John is absolutely right that if there is an emergency situation, there is justification for suspending some of that. Some of our concerns about big tech, which actually much predate for some of us definite predate Trump but then, but the

you can say, look until every until the new government's installed and we know everyone safe and sound, we're doing these emergency things, but that's not what they're saying but they're saying is anyone who toxin in these far right chat room then talks about how the election was stolen and who talk about fermenting violence are out. Will that's been going on Anti? I've has been doing that on twitter from gear. this is not that there is a weird disconnect, I think Silicon Valley looks at this from one perspective because they are a mano political body like there are very few conservatives or Applicants in Silicon Valley said they actually are making what they think to be reasonable, assessed sincere assessments that a lot of conservatives were saying by weren't you making these over the summer, not to make it an equivalent cause. It's not is what trumps goons debtors much much worse, but there is a concern that, where do these people go and rage?

It is in a sense as a kind of mental version of the locked out. We ve all been what underwrite like. Where do they go with all these feelings? Where did they? Who do they go to connect with? We don't know that gotta gap and some other your signal and other things which have skyrocket in terms of members that some of those are much harder to monitor so I'd the emergency powers thing, I think, is: is it absolutely german until binds administration is installed? And does this point of view no? The heat has called, but I dont trust them to pull back after that and at all, look look there to cut a separate the strands here. So does what's happening with parlor, which is effectively like saying you know we are there's this thing called electro magnetic pulse that could destroy all machines right, but we're not getting worthy. It's not going to be done so that Amish we're going to target and electro magnetic pulse at this one thing and make it impossible for it. It's like it can't go on

You know you can't drive on a road it can't. You know you can't open a stand at up a market in the car men's. You are denying its ability to exist that gets to the problem of the aggregation power at Amazon and a couple of these web service providers is a different question, because This is where the match Mcconnell example takes. What, which is, if they could do it too trappers they weren't you networks, extremist, you know, gaps tonight's for everyone, a call it they can do it to the left to, and so you know, invoking this power is bad and the fact that it can be invoked in unused makes a very strong arm,

for the break up of of of Amazon and the refusal to allow the aggregation of this amount of power over the internet, one or two were worth three companies. So that's that's one key point and that a larger issue where you could in Circumstances have seen a kind of grand coalition of Josh Hall on the right and the list this war on the left saying these companies have too much power. This was not what the constitution intended If they are monopolies or Amazon is functioning as a monopoly over the gate to the internet, it cannot be allowed to continue doing that and, and would be open up as it as a result, by do Legislation Capitol Hill how that would happen now, because no one will talk to Josh Holly, I don't know, but that's was. That was, I think, what we thought was inevitably going to happen to them in the twenty twenties,

an end, and now and now it might not. I do want to say that I I don't of the other thing that's going on here- is these companies have been dealing because of their monoculture position, haven't dealing with eight with a gigantic on slot from the from the left side of the political. While that the right complaint, the complaints of the right have been in a like gnats buzz around compared to they won the election for tromp. They allowed the Russians to do this with Trump Cambridge Analytical won the election for trot, blah, blah blah, and so all sorts David's people inside these companies have been sitting there coming up with remedies. People who agree with this and wanted you now do so about it, and this is very much like what happened again, Are you using analogy after nine eleven? What are we?

the dual you pull off the shelf tactics down stuff, that's been bubbling around. That's been on the shelf. That was what the Patriot ACT was. Was there were various provisions that were knit together that were pre existing that people had entered as legislation or come up with over previous five years to deal with a contingency like this, and they are blocked them together and passed it in three weeks or months, and that was the Patriot act. Similarly, there no way the parlor would been platform in forty eight hours. Tat. Somebody not already come up with the modality to de platform parlor from Amazon Web services. That was something that someone had proposed last year at was on and they said, go way that it and then something all remember that lets. Let's do that all this stuff, with the pact's all that that didn't just happen in them in a one in twelve hours, these have been identified and purple aiding around woke corporate Amerika for years, and they were just pulled off

health and, like all such things, the long term consequences seemed uninteresting compared to the short term need in the short term emergency and are they going to regret it, of course, they're going to regret it they're not, but it's going to be harder for them to know to regret it like this The NFL ratings are down twenty percent right. Twenty twenty five percent this year, no one any thing to do, but watch football. You know it's not like that. So much else to do on Sundays when football came back because air Everything in America is just so much fun now when there is so much to do outside Europe, football politicized it it it You know in early may the whole bunch of people and their Suffering and the alienation of a large swathes of the conservative audience is gonna, be something but they're going to deal with, but they're not gonna, know so easily.

There, is, I don't know it's a recession. You know that's why we're dead our businesses down, as as people pull back and pull away because of their anger at the way can I have been treated? Can I said one thing to this: public private discussion with these companies is that the government is in business with a lot of these companies like they host government, servers to its, not just private. You know businesses like parlor or twitter, I'm did the Amazon web Services and Google contract with the federal government all the time. In fact, it's interesting that you brought up the pressure from the left. They have Google got a lot of pressure from its own employees, not to go into business with the defence department on on a research and drone research, because the very well people who work at Google out in California, didn't like that like we don't want to build weapons were here to do good, so there is the public private distinctions. It makes some of these arguments very persuasive, actually don't really existed. Practice, because the government relies on these services do so again long term. The concern is, if,

the government itself at the bureaucracy of the federal government, can't get away from using these companies? The fact that the companies are or have a very pronounced political bias and a lot of pet concentrated power make it even more differ. To regulate what they're doing when they wanted you a big shot down right now. Let me let me pull back and talk to you guys about our old friends at the bonds and group who have come back with a new set of of recommendations. For me. to read you guys over over the next month, or so there first round of spots folks The lack of intellectual have and frankly, the lack of work ethic from the majority of today's financial adviser community? But just as the country is looking for some kind of unity amid the time of political distress, the bond

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at sight. All you may want to know about the folks at the bonds and group, and we thank them for sponsoring commentary podcast. Yet again, so I sister talk a little about the fact that we are now talking about the things that the threat to the right, and now there is the question of the civil war on the right I was reading yesterday I've been reading a book called a season of the witch which is a US, her history of assent. Cisco by David Talbot, who is one of the creators of a salon up about maybe the first serve independent web magazine and often ridiculous and somewhat disgraceful publication

but if it was up, it was a bizarre pioneer and, and this book very interesting. It's a very progressive history of a very progressive city and full of Vienna kind of machine I'll, come by our stuff, that's kind of nauseating, but he is an honest book and he writes about how the summer of love degenerated. Had within it. Even you know from sixty seventy six, assuming that there, the neighborhood they became the famous. You know the hate, the neighbourhood that was serve at the heart of hippy them was a very, very rough and very dangerous place for people live, enter our function and that, at the same time you had you know that

panthers on the rise and the way that the black Panthers functioned was to threaten either implicitly or explicitly threaten the lives of power. Petitions, public officials, policemen and their families, and sometimes act on those threats and and thereby get alot of these politicians to kind of go along with them out of fear. So, for example, speaking of mayor of San Francisco, at the time Joseph Valeo, alleys, is boundless optimism about the city was immediately challenged by a series of stormy events during his first year in office, rioters clashed repeatedly with police and the hate The San Francisco state Campus, a lecture at state named George Murray, who belong to the black Panther Party.

Publicly for the assassination of slave masters, Elio and police Chief Cato three San Francisco when were shot after, they pulled over them filled with armed Panthers three blocks. In the hall of Justice, a police station in Richmond District was bar. Now I'm saying this obviously, because of the parallels to almost everything went on in twenty twenty but to say that the fact that we have moved into a period in which as I mentioned in newly elected representative major from Michigan, says that he knows of at least one case in which somebody voted the way he voted on Wednesday night on the on the arm electoral challenges, out of fear for himself and his family that the fact that this is a dirty,

there, the Trump inspired mob has. This has now taken the fear the Trump has represented, which is a fear of political retribution fork passing him now into a fear of actual retribution represents a unique moment in American. Closer we at the national level. There's been stuff like this all the time. It's what gangsters do in cities right day they day day they get in interwoven with of politics in neighborhoods and stuff like that, and then, when a political officials, I can't do that. They say: ok! Well, you know the good luck to your wife them I mean that's it. That's a classic old timey way that people have behaved and rough fashioned Weber, travellers at work by very, very rough deck. I was very that their very rough. We could be very rough. That's that

If you talk, that's that's building trades mafia talk, but there has been almost none of that that we know of at the federal level and and this is why the Republican Party, despite what Saying about how the house has no real, you know, end of a lot of the concerns that have no incentive to go against two going out Trump because of the weather districts. Europe are structured. Why they they better. They have every reason if they want a wife and a future in politics to stand with. The notion that this force needs to be extirpated in some fashion, will an end you think it through Trump himself. Isn't it doesn't even have the courage of his supposedly ghetto being rough is good convictions, because we have reports that he met with Kevin Mccarthy yesterday when Mccarthy pressed him on. You know this. This look. What happened trumps, responses that that was anti fa.

So he's not even embracing the destructive violence that his own, Followers did in his name, it's a weird sort of like he's. He likes to watch it literally likes to sit there and watch it from the remove seeing it on a screen and then, when he is confronted with the directly from someone on in his own party, his responses need to embrace it is to say action wasn't as anti virus. A very strange me he in some ways really embodies a lot of the kind of virtual unreality stuff we were talking about yesterday. He didn't even claimant, he didn't claimant and you think that these people, willing to their lives and and disrupt our government, an insurrection at least to persevere. Happening would say. Bravo Judo he's like that. It wasn't even us, it was Antigua. Plenary playing on Wednesday exclaimed during the riot. He was sitting there. That's what everybody was saying in the wind has supposedly was sitting there all excited too the riot unfold on his behalf, then, when it was the union for him in the middle of a conversation with common Mccarthy,

because he is somebody who who has early, no connection two or believes he has no connection too. All all facts, all anything that he says are conditional on whatever needs to save the moment. So then he said no was Antigua, so don't blame me and because to say no, they were magua. Trust me, I was there said Mccarthy, but trust you know this by the way is one of the reasons that Mccarthyism contemptible figure, I mean if, after that, conversation which you them retails to the press It continues to stand as some, a bulwark against trumps, impeachment and removal when he that conversation with Trump Fine, so he'll do what he s do politically he's a he's, a contemptible figure. You know we talk about how contemptible it is when people in the press say things that they know not to be true, because their politically convenient well, Here we are with Kevin Mccarthy that minority leader of the House of Representatives.

Interestingly enough Mcconnell will not speak to Trump. Apparently he is. He has decided that he will no longer have any truck with her. What with Trump, which again, maybe that's like closing the barn door after the after the horse has gotten away, but them pretty clear, though, that the house in the Senate, members, are being its being met. Clear the Republicans necessary that they're on their own here, meaning there's gonna, be there's no directive that they shouldn't vote for impeachment wherefore although they should innovation vote their consciences and that the party is market up here. The party will insisted on nothing, and I doubt after this the Mccarthy will make any kind of a speech during the debate on it, each man tomorrow saying owed in unless he does do this. You have nonsense. Unity, crap that maybe he will, but maybe you won't say anything I don't know. I thought it was heartening that they included the bullying of reference,

in Georgia, by trapped in the impeachment, as one of the reasons why impeachment was necessary, wasn't just that was important. I think because it wasn't just the events of last one say it was a pattern and practice of threats to elected officials, which put those elected officials lives at risk, and I think that is. I was glad to see that included, because that's that doesn't allow people to rationalize away. Oh, it was just the rabble arouses. I would say that this is a pattern practice. It starts at the top and we were saying that that the georgian conversation this was itself in each while this was before we had any you know of vision, others of of one of what took place unless it ever said that that was the way the President had ever set on tape right grass. For about thirty six hours, Well, look, you know they're. There is idea floating around that the data.

By demonstration in conjunction with the house in the Senate. Should convene some kind of a committee to investigate, The riot you know answered report on the right sort of, like the nine Eleven Commission report, to get all the fact out and get everything you know as authoritative as possible. Generally speaking, I think such things are, you know r, r, r performative false and fake. I would actually like to read such report that that is, you know in which people are required to speak under oath about what happened. The under penalty of perjury, so that we get some real sense of how all with this in a developed and evolved. Maybe, be bad for national unity. Maybe it would be bad for healing. You know, remember, Gerald Ford granted Rich

Dixon that irrevocable pardon after after Ford became president in order, as he said to close, the subject. Down, so that it would not hang over american political life for the next step in a generation. I dont know that that's possible but that, but that was so- maybe maybe that maybe that's a a better model, Of course it will be done anyway. I mean bribe. Media will do it and it has to be would be an insane dereliction of our responsibility to posterity to not investigate how this happened. There's too much ambiguity about. Why? there was a delayed response from the National Guard who approved it. When did they approve it? What was the president doing when? Was he doing it Who did he speak with? What did he say when he spoke of the youth? Weird thing suspicion, but we don't have definitive answers to that end. We absolutely must happen and, of course, the weird stuff that that will

it was the capital police and we ve, seen the footage. The horrible footage of the violence being done to the capital police by rioters. But then there are these suspensions of the the policeman. But our mega had the other policeman who took selfies with the crowd. Yet there's plenty of areas of the apple finding them a little, less resistance to entering the capital from capital please than they should have, and everybody whose on team Linwood here has lapsed onto that, like flotsam in a shipwreck? That is their justification for all of us that this was a vast conspiracy in both the both sides, yeah the left to says, there's a basque conspiracy than the police. They wrong team mega. They wanted these. These lawmakers to be killed. There were police officers from various local police departments as a part of MOB with flashing their badges to to get in there, there's conspiracies on all sides of the same, and if we don't get definitive answers, one where the other their throwing at a faster

Well, there was that key moment in one of those pieces of a footage that was being used in the in the end. The outset on answers there, whenever of say the capital police were complicit with this case. Oh policemen directing the book You know a rioters in a certain direction a guy. You see there in it with them, and then it turned out that he was direct. Them away from the Senate chamber, since they didn't know where they were going, like where's, the Senate Chamber, he's like it's over their setting them towards the rotunda. Instead of toward the Senate, Amber and guiding them in that direction, but the first looking at it without context looked as though something else had been going on, and all this like that, wasn't me that the whole National Guard thing

No, they said no, wasn't me they I they sent on Tuesday, but I said that we should, but then somebody said we shouldn't. While who was that somebody? You know what what was what was what was going on there and it would very, very helpful also so that it's not just the press, because the as is now, you know, nothin anyways, the trust of finding from one of these conditions, that doesn't go the way they wanted to go, but dinner with them should impose. Does a big you know? Does a big multi month take out on this you know instantly know everybody at the Federalist is going to say: well, it's washing post UK also they're owned by Jeff Bezos and that's Amazon web services that they include parlor, and so we don't even need to pay attention to what they say. So, at the very least, a bipartisan commission could in fact get to the bottom of of of of this in some creditable fashion.

And with that, I want to thank everybody by the way who sent us most messages about the gigantically long podcast. Yesterday, in that we were worried, nobody would want to set you apparently alive. You didn't want to sit through it, and it was very kind of you to do so, and I thank you How much for your for your attention and down and for Europe patients with us and freer words and until tomorrow, for Noah Ape and Christine I'm John put words, keep the candle burning.