Play welcome to the commentary magazine. Podcast today is Monday October 28th, two thousand and nineteen. I am John Podhoretz, the editor of commentary with me, as always senior editor, eight Greenwald High aim high John Associate editor nor Rothman High, now hi John and in Washington, senior writer, Christine Rosen HI, Christine Hi John so now that we've gotten the highs over with, we can say goodbye. To El Baghdadi, the the ahead head of ISIS, that

austere, religious scholar who have repeatedly raped people in his austerity and merle thousands and images did millions and was all in all one of the worst people of our time. We can get a hold question of why the Washington Post web team saw fit to check change the headline of its obit from master terrorists too, austere, religious scholar, an what that says about what is going on in the media today. But before we do that, maybe we should dilate upon the more important issue, which is the actual targeted killing of of El Dotty. So by the way, interesting thing that this now suggested that we have now. We have now made a total shift in american policy after the failed assassination attempts on

Fidel Castro in the early 1960s uhm led to a blanket. Polacy policy that we were not to use assassination as a tool of american foreign policy. It is now ever we that is now Obama started this and Trump is now sort of hard, and at that we in fact do use targeted assassinations as part and parcel of the way we conduct ourselves in the war. On terror, it, I don't really have more series to say about this, except it like when I was growing up as a teenager, paying attention to foreign policy. This was. It was axiomatic that American behavior in this regard was among the worst things with America head to head ever done. I think we're talking about the basic the series of assassinations most the day and RON are bends in Guatemala and then Diem in Vietnam.

All of which were, but I bet we still wouldn't assassinate leader of a state that we recognize as a state. We think there's also a big distinction to be made between covert actions and the support for proxies and really overt. Blind screaming efforts to decapitate regimes like the early strike in two thousand and three on the uh on the Hussein regime and these raids on non state actors fair enough? Although, although the DM thing was not was a covert action, I mean it's not like these were These were you know. We used our military to go and you know Hunt Hunt people down, it was still. These were still. You know black most black, ops giant screw up yeah. Well, there's a lot of it were giant scrubs anyway, but I'm just this just occured to me as we talking. So this was an improv and basically, I think we've run run to the end of this. We can't yes and it anymore, so we can move on so yeah. I mean

I mean the big headline here is that the president deserves a lot of credit for making a really. Tough call on a mission that was cancelled twice previously. This is deep in hostile territory and it's never easy to make that call and a lot of there's a lot of reporting around how this was made more difficult by the president's decisions leading up to it, which I can't argue with, and I don't think anybody would. Nevertheless, there is a clear impulse on the part of reporters and the audience that consumes this kind of reporting to limit the extent to which the present president is credit for victory. I mean this is part of the nature of the the toxic partisanship of the moment, because I think pretty much not quite as extreme. But I mean some of the same was true when, when Osama Bin Laden was was killed and Republicans and conservatives were very grouchy about having to

give Obama credit. They serve understood that he had to be given credit, but we had already sort of gone down. The road of the nothing that Obama could ever do could be good. So, therefore, when he did something that was to everybody's mind is sort of an alloy, good enough and something that was necessary and also sort of a statement of american and purpose. In some sense, that was hard, for it was hard for people to to say, and the and Interesting thing is that, with this, with the the sped up nature, american life, the objections to Trump's deserving credit to this happened. You know roughly forty five seconds after the event itself, as opposed to sort of the requisite couple of days of respectful silence or something the other thing that I remember at the time that was hard for some to acknowledge about the when we finally killed Bin Laden was that

our of people had decided that Bin Laden was already dead and the good that was a sort of there was a way of of not facing the fact that we let him go right that we that we have missed it for years and years right bodies the photo with the the body right. Here's a look at the Next stage is the conspiracy theories, yeah right well so yeah Christine sizes to say, but Trump risks doing the same thing. That was deeply annoying. That Obama did after Bin Laden was killed, which is the tram fullest. Now we've defeated them because we happen to have we tell the leader now it's over and and in fact didn't trump just say earlier, and I number? We defeated ISIS even before I got it was killed. So that remains was one of the people who said: don't give Obama any credit for the for the Bin Laden killing. It was our special forces that deserve all the credit he isn't capable of grace, but his opponents can't adopt that trait too, but it is, but

that that that point, I'm writing about that point too, and it's really important his impulse to say you know. Sometimes you just appeals to superlatives to describe his own exploits. So maybe it's does that. But the impulse to say this is bigger than than Osama Bin Laden is really troubling, because it's indicative of a pursuit of a political narrative, which is what a Barack Obama and so much trouble right. Well, you know that they were the JV team right right. Isis was the JV team at the, but Orlando massacre efforts were made as late as twenty. Sixteen efforts were made on the part of the day, the administration, to suggest that this wasn't a terrorist activity that this was. You know just hate hate, exercising hate for hate site. Remember The line in two thousand and twelve was general is alive and Bin Laden is dead right, which, which then led I'm going to offer a kind of slightly cracked narrative of the of the last seven here's what the crack narrative will go like this, so

ambassador and contractors are killed in Benghazi, the Obama administration is incredibly loaf. To say that this was a terrorist act of you know of state murder because they had can they had contrived this narrative about how Bin Laden was no longer a threat to the United States. Therefore, a terrorist act like this couldn't have happened. Therefore it was because of the video or whatever, which then lead to the massive confusion around Benghazi, and what we did in twenty four hours before an after the killings in Benghazi, which then led to the Hillary hearings, which, which were part and parcel of the way. Which Hillary Clinton's pretty overwhelmingly favorable reputation

in the United States among the american voter when she stepped down as Secretary of state, which, in a sixty five percent approval rating knock down into the forties by the time she actually started to run for office. Had Barack Obama said this was acts of terrorism were going to get the people. We were going to get the people responsible, they're the same people who you know went after us on nine eleven am. We are still engaged in this battle. Mitt Romney would have had to support him, would have had to say nice things about it. No and in the country would have objected, it would have strengthened his reelection campaign and the Benghazi hearings would never have happened and Hillary Clintons Elect old possibilities would have risen and lot of others. I would never found out about the server the server came out would never have found out about things also hearing, so actually so right there that that right, there shows a butterfly flapped right. Wings and Trump became president six years later right, so, I think,

What is really really important here is to understand that how you respond, whether you respond at it properly to these large scale of the events that are being a potential, serve hinge moments in in in history. I mean not not like all of recorded history, but at least our contempt You know moments in time that if you overreact or you sort of lay too much emphasis on the meaning of any individual moment that you were prone possibly to blood or into mistakes that will have weird totally unanticipated long range consequences that Barack Obama had responded properly to the Benghazi killings, Hillary Clinton would be President today is not something that is easily dismissable and the fact that he didn't an she isn't are potentially very closely related. So

I want to say I know how Trump should respond or what will happen with Trump's response, but it's a cautionary tale at the very least. What what do we make of the fact that there's another possibility by the way, which is that the pullout from Syria and the incredibly negative reaction to it among Democrats and Republicans what is the spur that lead trying to make the risky decision to make the move? Well, that I mean this certainly help. I I think falsely, but this had this will large We publicly help his case for getting out. You know it make. It makes him look Serious about killing enemies, despite our not wanting to police the world. In his words, I mean that seems to me like the conspiracy theory, I'm not

that's. Why I mean that he I mean that would be the considers there that is upon this wooden, brace that this was a political activity and not an operational necessity. No, no! I I don't think that's a conspiracy income saying that he might have four born, but he was really but he's been reeling from the response he fought. The response to the pull back in Syria was going to be way more positive than it turned out to be, and he therefore could have you know, he could have doubled down on the logic, which is that we're not doing this anymore or he could have thought? Well, you know I got people that I mean that I I do mean business and, if it's possible, I'm not I'm not in a certain ording suggests that this is been in the works and summer right set the date, but also that they had they had to speed up the time line as a result of the president's activity. Yourself said that they that they had plans for it and call them off twice yeah, because it has been in the works an exam at

in the morning that we now yeah I was just. Can I just say something about the tone of the way that the president spoke about this and now, let's the victory I mean did. Did anyone else find it kind of bizarre that he spoke about it like he'd been watching it? You know what the latest net Flix movie and the fact you know he went to the Nats Game Donuts World Series last night, he was actually loudly booed, and that's so strange reverse. I don't think I mean granted. This is very liberal town, but the fact that he spoke about this with this kind of childlike enthusiasm like it was in his even said it was like watching movie, and talking about the whimpering and stuff that he actually could not possibly know I just wonder how it does that affect the narrative at all, or is that just what we've come to expect from Trump? My favorite little detail? That's why it's all I've come to respect my favorite little details about the whimpering in the crying is that the defense secretary asked for was on tv.

Yesterday morning saying I I don't have that information. The president was probably speaking to commanders on the ground. Look who provided him with that little little detail, and everybody blew himself up with a suicide vest. How would hear a whimper right? They thought it would definitely make sense, so so, a as the psyop. If one can say there is a there's been a general sense for twenty five years at the way you're supposed to talk about terrorists and their death is to talk about how their powers the work, how words in the Howard Lee things and it's that they were. They were cowards and it's terrible and so portraying. But I'll bug daddy is dying, a coward's death

crying is, in theory, a kind of psyop to try to make it clear to people that they shouldn't respect about, got it like a lot of these things. It seems to me that this comes from some weird. I was going to use a negative term. That partially involves defecation. But it's this one of these like theories that you can actually locate, maybe in pop sure, like there's a scene at the there's, a movie called angels with dirty faces, in which James Cagney plays a gangster, and these kids in the neighborhood of worship him and his the per his full of old friend, who has become the priest, says to him in order.

It, you don't have these kids follow you into a life of crime. Will you, as you go on to the? Will you go as you go to the the gallows, or will you whimper and cry and at Lu Sound like your yellow, that you're a coward- and he agrees to do this, and so he, as he's being led to his death, cries and said it's being broadcast on the radio, and all these all the boys are like he's Yella he's and and lose all respect for him and therefore might therefore have a chance to live a little more upstanding life because they realize that being a criminal, isn't brave and I've always wondered whether these people, you find out about them. You know the terror of the experts to turn out to, like have a you know, have a a junior degree from a junior college or something like that, but got a contract for ten million dollars from the Defense Department to invent

you know how to handle suspects that you're going to do? You know deep interrogations of whether some It came up with this idea that you're supposed to say that terrorists are cowards from angels with Dirty face as I mean I'm, because it's so exact and there's no disproving right so because they always kept saying it's like he was a coward. This is a cowardly thing to do. You don't have to augment the details with this image of him bring and pleading for his own life, the guy based on what we know from officials, not just the president. He took his own life, and surrounded himself with children did to do it. I mean that's pretty much the definition of a coward. I I I I I have to say I didn't I didn't mind that part of it at all. I I I I'm on Ford with with posthumous posthumously. Humiliating a terrorist, but but I was watching his performance Christine and sort of

the cringe at any moment, because I feared he was going to miss state something or as he at one point he actually missed, pronounced Al Baghdadi's name. Thank you Al Baghdadi and then when he said that we lost K a dog, they call them canines. I call them talks just just the sort of bizarre in this of things like that. You know, but with which it which I have come to expect, but I didn't, I didn't actually find the arms rubbing, salt in the wound, part offensive or or worrisome at all. I mean that with the the troubling aspect of that whole performance was that he's playing this up for politics and he is do a victory lap. He deserves a victory lap and the people who are trying to deny him a victory, lap or wrong to do so and blinkered partisans in the process. However, that victory lap is going to come to bite him in the butt. When we all

is that the terrorist threat is not neutralized and that will come as a result of an event. It always does, and the President may be committing himself to a narrative which is flawed. What what Trump has disproved, love him or hate him. What he is disproved is the notion that the presidency requires dignity for that or that the president benefit. Now we don't. We don't know whether he's wrong about this, but that the president needs to behave in a dignified fashion or that it benefits the president to behave in a dignified fashion, because that is what people expect of the present. It elevates him. It elevates the offices, it enhances his his power as a as a public official when he is dealing with other public officials and all that Trump refuses to go for Trump is the antithesis of this idea, so he has a moment where you know

the he has? He has ordered US forces to take a very risky move to go and it's a it's an unqualified success, and then he jumps up and down and does a victory, dance and gives himself high fives and all of that and we look at it, we say: well, that's really. You know what I didn't. I don't know, that's not right and all that, but you know maybe he's right and we're wrong.

Because maybe what he knows is that if you're not going to give yourself a victory lap, other people are going to deny it to you and if you don't make it clear that it's important to you and that you're going to be mad. If people you know on your own site who don't support your victory lap, then you don't get to victory lap. Well, I don't know that's the next. Most important part of this is obviously this is the president's first good news cycle, and I don't remember how long and there's a lot of Republicans who've been on his case about the cascading revelations involving crane and now the serial pull out. So this gives them a little breathing room to just not necessarily go out the president or remain silent. They can say something positive about the present even dying for that opportunity. Does he get a legitimate bounce out of this thing? I don't think he does well, even if he does it's it's by definition, Evanescence, because that's the nature of an event where you kill one person right, I mean to you know

Did Obama benefit from the killing of Bin Laden yeah? But what was what were the long term? Would he have gotten one more fewer vote? If Bin Laden hadn't been that it's a little hard to know, I know they thought that it was the way they were going to sell their foreign policy, but Imad in that Bin Laden had been gotten, but he'd still remained invisible right or you know hiding or whatever. The Christine's point is the super valid. The present it's already been saying: the threat is neutralized from ISIS. So now it's more neutralized the most neutralize it again you're. Looking for you're, looking for a kind of consistency and logic, an argument that we thought was necessary for the press. Application of american politics and that that is what we have that. That is what he has disproved is that yeah, you can say something is neutralized and then killed all bugged ADI and say I just killed up all bug body

so then people say well. You said it was neutralize neutralized. When did I say, It doesn't matter. I said something now and they said something then, and that's the way it is, and the people who don't like him won't like it in the people like him, are fine with it and nothing changes. That's why he doesn't get any bounce out of this right, but I I okay, so all bounces in a time of hyper partisanship, involve the following right. You have people on one side were making up around forty two percent of the you know, people who were polled and therefore, potentially the electorate who like in no matter what now well that's a hardened to about forty to forty two percent and then you have people around forty five to fifty percent who don't like him, whatever he does, and maybe even a little more so they say. So if you add that up that's about ninety percent. In theory, there's ten percent in the middle who are persuade Rible or who? Can you know whatever right so That's what all this is about. Every From now until election is about either depressing

Trump's own turn out or depressing. The democratic turn out or pushing people could something like this help. Somebody who doesn't who doesn't like him but doesn't like the Democrats, could that make him make them feel a little better about him. Of course, of course it could could it could it will it will that be five million people? Probably not, but you know, could it be a little bit yeah questions whether you need to build on it like and that's what he is made? difficult for himself like if he wants to position himself as the tough guy who does what's necessary for America abroad, including make The hard decisions to pull our troops out when it's thankless, he can't do. One thing he already learned that in two thousand and seventeen when he hits area once and then you know when multiple victory laps about how incredibly great it was that he had SIRI for using chemical weapons in Series,

chemical weapons, weapon, six or seven times since then the hasn't done anything about it, therefore in this is they make a distinction between complex nerve agents and chlorine to same distinction that Barack Obama made right like nerve agents, a trip wire and chlorine is just right, casual chemical warfare right. But what I'm saying is that a heavy done it every time? Then he would have it then he would have built on what he did the first time right, but he doesn't do it every time, so not that it's not like. He gets a chance to kill a major terrorist leader every day, but in general terms. You know you don't you're not going to get credit for stunts, not that I'm not that. I think this justifies call this, but politically will seem like a stunt if it is not part the more you know realize foreign policy. I mean the key part about the bounces whether this has any real impact on the president's support in the Senate Visa V impeachment proceedings.

Well, since there isn't a single senator right now that you can point to who is going to vote to convict him, I don't Oh, how definitively know right. Indications are the three. The big three rounding Collins and Murkowski are flakey. Three three forty seven makes fifty so you're now seventeen short so does make it harder for Romney. Yes, Romney tweeted out. Congratulations trump! Yesterday, OB basically, in a kind of state of relief 'cause, he doesn't necessarily want to be the Tribune Avante. From forces, among Republicans. So

As we know, the one thing you could say about Mitt Romney. Is that he's really a bold and courageous person who does all sorts of incredibly bold and courageous things as politician? That's why it's so funny that he's you know. So all the liberals are now pushing him mark Labovich in the New York Times and everything on how what a great moment this is for him. Well, if it was great moment for him, you know he wouldn't be so pained about figuring out how many times they trump in a sentence, or something like that. You know if, if you really wanted to be there, of course, I'm just saying that the idea that this isn't helpful to him with the Senate, it's perfectly helpful and

really necessarily need much help, not not when the Democrats are doing things- and we haven't really talked that much about this and we've said before that: there's no reason that rats can have these private hearings and probably going to have them and all of that, but clearly the argument that Democrats are conducting the impeachment inquiry in a way that seems like they are Writing the rules to benefit themselves. An not being fair has some uh populist power behind it, no's making a weird face at me like. He doesn't believe that the fact that the entire republican Party has adopted the idea that Yes, that was decided that the house leadership cannot govern the house. Like leadership, governs the house, that's the narrative and they're sticking to it good for them. It

ridiculous narrative for his power again. I know the process will stick by the way. You can call it a ridiculous narrative and not say that it doesn't have political bite so fine, so other houses have done it this way and This one is getting, you know crap for in another way. So it is so it's short term thinking because long term. It's it's a terrible strategy because as soon as things as soon as the issue reports and they move forward and and things move ahead- that that collapses as as a as an argument for the Republicans. I think it's just not possible argument Dave. What possible argument? Would you suggest they are they're, beginning to make it with their moving on from process arguments and beginning to adopt the Randy, in view of Rand, Paul, Randy and view of how we should approach this, which is to argue that quid pro quo is ness

then necessity that you have to have strings attached to foreign aid in implicitly there and that it doesn't matter whether they're based in national security or the president's personal political interests you just have to have strings attached. Well, that's what Mo Brooks said Right Mo Brooks said you dad gum better, have a quick Pro Qual. If you're going to do something right, ok, so the process arguments were working; ok, so they were working. They are. They work to the extent that you don't make a worse argument, which is that it's ok the president to demand political favors from other countries in exchange. For you know we'll see that has been set in law. I mean that's a worse argument, then you're not being fair. By having these hearings, secret so you're saying it would be better if they made a worse argument. So I'm going to dispute you on that. I I mean ok,

I surrender I mean if you can come up with a third argument, that they should redeploying, as opposed to these other two. I think, though, that yeah the only way that this is the there. There are only a couple of ways to go on this argument, one of which is to say it's just whatever it is, and you can say it's terrible and I'm not going to say anything about it. It doesn't rise to the level of impeachment is essentially what Republicans are going to say from now, through whatever happens at least be honest, I haven't actually heard anybody say it in those terms: ok, when they are compelled to like, when actually our house votes on impeachment and republican speak during what they're going to say is this? Is

in in this I'd, have to read that have to concede that it's back, don't just say, I'm not even going to say it's bad, but even if I agreed with you in every particular, even if I agreed with you that what Trump did was wrong, it's still doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. It still doesn't justify the first removal of a president from office in American ST that he that he said he was withholding aid from or that he was suspending aid to Ukraine, which eventually went through therefore, no harm no foul anyway. Anyway, you slice it no harm, no foul, because the because they did. Precisely get what they wanted and the A1 through. It's not an argument. It's a stated position, but I think that will be the Republican Party's position.

Even if I agreed with you- which I don't I would still say, it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment which, by or removal which, by the way, is sort of where I am on it. I mean I think I think you'd have to be. You know, bill Clinton, committed action, actual felony, committed, perjury and was jury nullified by the by the Senate. And I thought that was the right move too. By the way, I didn't think the Clinton should should have been removed from office of lying about of sexual Becca I giving out go head yeah. I was going to say speaking out. We gotta talk about Kd Hell, let's make a deal, but before we talk about Katie Hill, I got an ad. I got to read an ad, that's what I gotta do, because so we're we're cliff hanging in one Katie Hill

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we dot com, slash commentary to download your free guide, seven key strategies to grow your profits, net, sweet dot, com, slash commentary, so Katie Hill, Christine, I can give you the I just have to. I have to start out by be saying something really petty, but I'm I'm going to do. It is So you know for years, we've been reading these big think pieces in New York, Times magazine and elsewhere about how you know open marriages and not being monogamist as the future, and this is also good for everybody, and I just want to give everybody exhibit a at the counter argument, which is Katie Hill like this. This is one of those examples where you know all of the the idea that this doesn't make personal life messy and Iraq for many people is. There is obviously some evidence of the country, so Katie Hill Democrat First Democrat to be elected to the 25th district in California, since, like one thousand nine hundred and ninety the 90s right,

She has evidently been having relationships outside of her marriage with people who work for her, and this has prompted health. It prompted some ethics investigations and she just resigned. The reaction has been interesting because or is she was a man and doing this. I don't think we have any doubt there'd be a lot of me crowing about yes, you know this is an appropriate she's, taking advantage of her power and position. But what we see instead is a lot of hand. Wringing about she's being slot shamed? How it's just so unfair and- and you know really, this is just not not the case, and so I think it's an interesting example of if you want to have high standards of behavior for people in power. They have to apply equally to men and women. But that's still not wear a lot of feminists and me to folks are when a woman is taken down by the standards it also take down men. Okay, so what's interesting to me is that she

decided to resign yesterday right. First, first images came out that of her topless or something with she first, she said in traditional most, that it wasn't her and it was photoshopped or something like that. Then she acknowledge it was her and now she's. Then she said it's her, but she's in she's being abused by her Ex husband who she's trying to get out of an abusive relation and now she has resigned and she's heartbroken and she then says, but this isn't over.

So she says: he's going to fight revenge porn now now she's the revenge porn crusader or something, and she can she cops to the relationship with campaign staffer, but not too not with her current or up until recently, current hill staffer. Ok, so so here are two things that we know. Okay, Republicans have no power over any of this whatsoever. Okay, this is the this is run by Democrats. She is a first term Democrat if she is being run out of office on a rail and being forced to resign. This is Nancy Polo sees doing. Has nothing so with the republican media. It has nothing to do with Republicans in Congress. It has nothing to do with men. Being unfair, and it's not fair because the first time this house ethics investigation

to having an inappropriate relationship with a staffer has been exercised. Since the house changed rules when Nancy Poulos, he became speaker that now it is going to be a woman who was going to be investigated. Ok, so this is all democratic party as having happened to Joe Barton right. Did it yeah Joe Barton had that graph image that was released online in twenty seventeen and then he retired right shortly thereafter. Ok, so my central here is that I don't remember my democratic damaged. This is democratic damage, control, ok, so how this becomes a realm for thumb, sucking think pieces about how me is being applied unevenly when the when the speaker of the house, who runs the Party in the house is a woman is very unclear to me that

and how this will last another a four hours is something else. So this came out this right after the daily mail which augmented the red state had the initial image and then the daily mail Yahoo mail in the person of former commentary, staffer along a Goodman who got a hold on a Goodman for Mateer Commentary, staffing issue with daily mail, now yeah An international it was she was, she had won. The early stories about SAR anyway sell it. Yes, one is very good. The daily mail had this, and you know it was like okay. Obviously, this is the end of her career, not because her political we're not because she couldn't survive this thing. We have two Republicans who were indicted by grand juries who are currently serving in Congress. It's because her district is dead. Even Pvi. Pbi is the cook political report. Partisan voting index indicating of a particular district in one direction or another. Her district doesn't

in any way she represents district in Orange County, where republicans were wiped out in twenty eighteen for the first time in a long time, historic and is like the historic homeland of the Republican Party, where they were just destroyed on the national level and there's indication that they should come back. It's not as, though, that this is a permanent shift in in opinion in Orange County it's. It was a very good cycle for Democrats and for Democrats have a less good cycle. There's no reason why Republicans can't come back and Katie Hills District is a prime pick up opportunity and if she were to defend her activity on that on the campaign stump, she wouldn't have survived simple as that right by the way she won not to get to put too fine in this. She won the district. By being a woman that is, she ran as a. I must be one the people to make the change in the me too era- and you know

Actually met her she's, very young, where I choose thirty two, I think, and so Maybe all of this not to go Trump, It was like a little bit of a tv show to her like suck she sort of gets in this race out of nowhere. She laps the establishment candidate, she wind she's got all the showbiz people backing her. You know she's marriage, she doesn't like, or their husbands husband's, be whatever. Whatever is the story between her and her house, and it's all very heavy and crazy and fun she's like a classic young. Person democrat you know. So she's like screwing around on the campaign make a big deal of her. The party thought she was going to be a very important face of the party at counter to the AO season, Illano Mars, because she

a little bit more centrist and because she wanted at should write out a fee. She won in a in a in a string that swing districts. So, and the point is that she's clearly not she thought that she didn't have to be cautious and prudent in her private behavior okay. But I got to be a lot tougher than you guys are being either because she's now turning herself into a professional victim whose claims that the whole reason the she she says in her resignation, letter she's going to you, know all the women and girls were going to be prevented from running for office because the exploitation of revenge porn, it's absolutely ridiculous that she is trying to get on a soapbox, Is your own personal choices which were not very smart and were quite abuse of her power, because she was doing this with people who she had the power to pay and hire and fire the idea that now she's some sort of victim. Murder and revenge porn. You know Joan of ARC just just really. You kind of have to wonder at this point.

How old the left in the media are kind of feeling about their investment in this freshman class? The celebrated freshman class of women in the end, the arc that that they're, the sort of the the most celebrated members at the arc of their there. Term so far is taken? I mean she she's. She's, not the only one to two one rubble and then make make, make a sort of victim story out of it. That is a really good angle, and I want eight hundred words on that. Ok, so there are a whole bunch of other women in that class case, Bannon Burger and uh uh I'm trying to now the mail order yeah I can reporter the military, the I list I mean there are plenty of people who aren't like either. You know. Basically you know it's selling.

Country to Cuba or like having three couples with their staffers. So you know we're, it's it's I know, but it's as silly to condemn them as a whole. They are rare as it is to support element exactly right and and and to read sort of like the professional sort of feminist commentariat up simply it's like they're rallying to her side because they all share 2x chromosomes. You know, like victimize, someone with two x chromosomes extracting- By importing to them me too yeah I mean the whole thing as well. I mean it's not like these relationships were non consensual, but of course I thought the whole point. I thought the whole point was that you couldn't have a real relationship with consent. If somebody was a superior and other people work for them, and indeed this male staffer, she gave some huge bonus too.

Now, that's when she denies that she did. She denies that there's a relationship there with with with the male staffer Nora. Does she yeah? I don't remember It's it's the the female. What what kind of trouble then? What's this? Who, who did she have the throttle with the females, the hell staffer? But It's a throuple is three people, yeah he'll Stafford, see messy Messi Messi gets really messy right. Will talk about Ilhan, Omar and her and her and her thirty. Eight year old boyfriend was married to the fifty five year old woman whose who to who to give a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars who she pay, whose organization she paid two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to last year I mean I'm just saying you know when you, when you elevate people, when you make a big pr deal out of people,

there's a reason why you want to like keep your powder dry for a year or two until you find out that they are really worth the celebrating. You know. That's that's part of prudence. You it's like why there are farm teams, and you know why why you don't bring a picture up to the major leagues until he shows that he can pitch in the minors, or why you know actors don't immediately get to you know. You know sort of center, two hundred and fifty million dollar movies. Without some experience and the same thing is true in politics when you you know when people become sort of FI noms of the moment they often it turns out are like that. I mean, I don't think it's really quite right. In Katy Hills case more like in the. Odds case where it's like you, you you raise them and they go all not so because they've never had this kind of attention and then it turns out that you know maybe they would have been better off being under the radar and Klay bring up some of their messes before they become

major stars, but that's no in anybody's power to control it used to be sort of in the power of the parties to control, because you kept them quiet, you kept them on minor committees, we didn't let them speak, fill in major debates and things like that until they were until they were ready, and so that's no longer a it's, no longer an option apparently, but it also doesn't. It also suggests I mean if you, if you're a me too, and supporter he thinks this movement is largely been for the good. It should give one pause and think about some of the tropes that the movement is operating on. Even if it's not you know deliberately this idea that women can have it to becoming victims, whenever their own behavior has gotten them into trouble is problem, but it actually does fit with the more extreme views. The me too movement right, I mean she's playing the victim, even though she was the victimizer, and I think that that what we should see is more caution, because

you live by the sword die by the sword. I mean she's she's died by the sword, but she still a minute. You mean even even Al Franken. It took us a year to re, had to attempt to rehabilitate him as a victim and that's still hasn't succeeded. But again she could have stayed. No one is make I'm sorry, no one is making her resign the nest very clear like she is under no obligation to resign. They haven't even started an ethics investigation of her and even if they do an ethics investigation or the times that there was wrong doing she doesn't have to resign. The more she knows he's going to get a copy or thing I can see close. He went to her and said you are going to be the spearhead of the Democrats, losing the house into. Is that what you want? You want to be the face of the LOS of the Democratic House in two thousand and twenty. You want you want. You know you want the evil Republicans to be in charge. Come January, twenty twenty one! Well, that's! What's going to happen and she's young enough and

good enough to believe it, perhaps 'cause. Of course that really wouldn't happen. But she didn't expect any of this to happen either and by the way. How do we know their husband was abusive she says her husband. She said I know, but we don't know her. Husband was abusive, soapy she's, getting divorced from somebody, and you know he was there. I mean this is the whole point of all these things when they talk about revenge. When I understand the theory of the horrors of revenge porn and everything, but it's she's, not as fifteen year old. You know who makes a horrible and take a picture of yourself and send it to somebody right, the horrible You know somebody who doesn't have a totally developed. You know sense of quinces in her brain and all of that, and does this terrible thing and then has this follow her she's in her third he's and a congressional candidate and she's taking pictures she's, allowing pictures of herself to be taken naked with her hair being brushed or brushing somebody's hair or whatever the hell else is happening like

I understand that it's kind of gross, that guy out in public, but she doesn't get the past that a high school kid gets for making a really really horrible, wrong headed decision because she's. You know like. In the House of representatives make naked. It Fong grips no surviving yeah, so there's a universally applicable standard of behavior that says congresswoman doing naked bong rips on cam is not the best yet though she should should she should live in the house in the real world. On the next episode, but the real world right well, she's, taking the hit for the first time, the next time it happens, people it's right, yeah shotguns ride a Ginsburg. Could she made a mistake before it stepping down here's how it with Doug? it wouldn't be on the Supreme Court 'cause. He tried marijuana once and then you know Barack Obama could like blow cocaine every every five seconds. You know it

twenty years later, and that was fine, so duggins work had to quit, minute, that someone found out that he and build I have to say that he didn't inhale and now ok, now everybody can smoke pot right. So I guess everyone can be in a throuple with uh. You know with a naked selfie. In fact, it's expected. It will work what kind of a weird were you in high school that you don't? Have you don't have a naked selfie in your past Is that that I think you know is one dystopian vision of our you know of our coming future. And anyway, and with that we will. I think this a relatively brief episode. We will bring to a also for Noah Haven, Christina but words, keep the candle burning.