Welcome to the Commentary magazine Daily, podcast, today's Tuesday June second, twenty twenty. I am jump on towards the editor of commentary Smee, as always senior editor, a green waldheim. I jump you, writer, Christine Rosen high Christine item, an associate editor Noah Rossman High Noah, our so another night of writing a brilliant decision to put pose a curfew in New York City at eleven p M, leading

three hours of untrammelled looting from this is an thirty four street up Fifth avenue to the best buy in the forties and north face store in the forties in various places in times square. A Rolex stored, fifty third Madison, and then I guess the Corfu hidden people serve went, went home, which raises the question of what happens. Night? What happens for the rest of the week? As you know there, seems to be an almost geographical nature to this worthy of systematically moving up town, and that means, what's left, after the Upper EAST and upper West sides of Manhattan, which are largely residential with some retail exe it's a retail and you know that's that's where

starts to really terrified people, I mean if there is an analog to the most, the grandest of riots in New York City S, history, that draft riots- that was the progression, was three days of northward movement and have that those rights had very much higher in anti class feel which I'm class warfare, which I'm not sure entirely clickable to these necessarily, but it isn't hard to envision a scenario in which you they eat the rich sentiment. Manifests in a desire to to do what the draft rights did, which was to target residencies upscale residences uptown after they moved away from coming then use because once the commercial than his sorrow hit and there's not a lot to do- you can either have what happened last night, which

They just simply disperse like they did not target residency last night or they can resolve to expand the targets. Well, can I go has yet the the eat, the rich prompted which someone spray into an apple store here in DC few nights ago. The concern in Dc. Last. For about last night, we had at eleven p M curfew on Sunday night, which obviously led to something similar What happened in New York LAD last winter, ten p dot m curfew last night and a lot of neighbors. We all were meeting yesterday during the day to make plans because all of the storefronts in our neighborhood in and then a lot of DC areas were boarded up after all, the looting, that had happened Sunday night and the concern was so. Where did they go next? Will they go to residential areas? I will say in in my neighborhood and in the neighbourhood that were heavily polluted the previous item. There is a much bigger police presence literally blocks streets off and preventing people from coming in.

Turned away some of the protesters who were violating curfew and headed towards our neighborhood. They literally had to change direction, so we we were spared. So, I think for New York. If that's, there has to be a pretty big show of force or a show of people on the ground saying no. You cannot keep looting because we saw looting last night in DC, we're in the areas that hadn't had that police presence before imported up like in Chinatown in other parts of downtown just to answer any you continue, but I want to set the stage a little bit for what happened. Last night I got her while she must say that I guess it the pet whether or not they switched to residence has two days ago, whether and how will what are they in this, for if they're doing this for swag right unfit for the goodies which which some seem to be than theirs, no thrill in breaking into a home run

I mean I m me, I guess I guess you could try to loot, loot, lewd apartments, but that seems like much more complicated prospect. But if it's, if its there's some aspects of this were to be being either rich sentiment is mixed in with the let's: let's get a duffel bag, full of merchandise. That's where I think you're gets kind of interesting and it's easier cause. The commercial venues are largely undefended by virtue of the tomb and locked out, but just to set the stage a little bit. My concern is that the policing strategy won't change appreciably. If, if their smart, it will it did this place in strategy was very hands. Last night, as it was the night before, and there is no excuse for that, because they knew this was coming. That's why they put in the curfew at eleven p M the deputy commissioner for intelligence and counter

terrorism John Miller said early on Monday morning that they had intelligence indicating that there were increasing presence of outside groups. There were organised, they were and develop strategies for sophisticated communications and scouting, and they had medical units and they had dark forces and they were preparing weapon stations throughout the city. Bottles rocks accelerants and they were aware of all this and nevertheless they did nothing to prevent what happened. Well, here we have the the central issue, which is the attitude of the of of governance. Remember the mayor of New York, build the plaza owes daughter was arrested among the protesters, allows tracer, think of it.

Analog to this, and basically any ardor oblige YO is directly the manager and an end manager of the near police Department is protests were against the police. She was out protesting against the police. He is the head of the police force. He then tweeted that here proud of her for her behaviour and has been tweeting or saying over the course of the week. Some Duff about the cops work for him. You know like that cop who did this. He should loses job or so like that? This is all him. This is is, though, the head of a company the head of a deep water, then other bp right away, owns deepwater horizon and then there's the oil spill said. You know.

A guy who runs that boat? He should be fired yeah. It's him! You'd, like you can't you know, he's acting as though he doesn't run the police department. So what does that say to you that says that says too that, as somebody who were arose and partially got elected mayor on an anti police platform opposing the tactics that police used for aid or close to twenty years in helping kill the crime wave in New York City at the moment at which the cops need their mayor have their back, because there is widespread social disorder and mass criminality going on. They know that that that he does it and he doesn't have the capacity, let's say in his own person, to

scare the criminals into thinking that they are really possibly in a great deal of trouble if they take on the police. Quite quite the opposite, I would They now wasn't just him. It was seen others, I think, was a Bronx DNA or Queens D. I wanted the district attorney's who, in the mid the height of the violence? Last night, I was shot out between saying if Europe of Europe Ernie tourists are witness to police violence and acts of police vandalism her excessive use of force in these it. This is what you should do, and this is should behave in. Those is just completely detached from my emphasis on the ground and demonstrates the wall against which police find themselves up up against. No help. How is it about what? If I could? I just want to read an email I got from up from a very thoughtful of a friend of common areas, Here's what what he said on what you got to react to it,

traditionally demonstrators don't cross red lines. In another era, burning down a precinct or destroying a police motor pull would have been considered a direct attack on police authority and would put probably have elicited a deadly response, and the demonstrators would have known that. But what are red lines today they must be out there, but they are unpredictable, threatening to see I'm in a mobilise police car is that a red line apparently not starting a building fires, apparently not which buildings elements among the demonstrators are trying to press matter. Where is the official line at which they have gone too far, They will know that they have gone too far. Where are they? informal lines for line police on the ground where they will have gone too far? This whole dynamic risks, new sources of outrage, an escalation, and, alternatively, a de facto application on the part of the unseen,

where did police so there we can. I there was a video that was making the rounds from a few nights ago and in New York, where a cop drew his weapon and and pointed and a bunch of violent protesters, leaders and I think even deposit comment on this like discussion lose as bad as this is terrible why's he pointing his gun at unarmed people. You know twenty four hour thirty six hours passed and we find out the contacts of that video, which was that he drew his weapon after his supervisor. Another officer was struck with the break. You know quite in the head and fell, and they were coming back for more, and that was the only option he had was to pull a weapons and need never fired it, but but even drawing a weapon in a situation where they were trying to kill a police officer by the way several have been injured in Saint Louis and in New York it and it's in the bureau's as well. So I think that the fact that their boss was checked

sizing, someone for defending a human life while in the process of doing his job and eighty vitry. All that was rained down upon the police. When that video initially started circulating verses, in the context of the video is explained, I think, did a lot about how I mean I can imagine, being a police officer in those conditions when you you're being I'm doing everything you're doing about your job and your boss is basically saying he thinks you're job is illegitimate. The first place you know a lot of episodes of regular assault yesterday on the regular result in the Bronx in on police police formations in Buffalo, New York scanners were apparently lit up with. We were talking about this over the text read, at the right around our area that the police were being visited. I airmail Christine. Can you define what airmail is imminent?

the sort of euphemism, not a euphemism. It's a term for when anyone out of a high window or from a roof of the building throws stuff down at unsuspecting cops below that's the kind of But lingo is it there, mail meeting its bottles? It's rocks. It's it's deadly stuff, that's potentially deadly thrown from roof tops or high windows down on please blow so police are being threatened with lethal force from these demonstrators, and I don't know how you expect them to behave saved. Use the threat of lethal force in retaliation. That's all that's the job description And I can imagine that the general public is not absolutely fed up with this nonsense. That's. Why I don't even know I mean I did. The video of the cop getting struck by the car in the Bronx is just horrific. I doubt that mean that that could well be

another death, but whether the them, the man in Dallas, who is who is beaten up over the weekend, died yesterday. So I don't they to be trying to find where that line is every night and ended the protests d, the right in their unable to find it. They keep pushing farther and farther every night in the early church, when there's gonna be some push back in and there hasn't been a white one. One thing more on aims, there's a cognitive dissonance here too, because if you even raised that issue, the response tends to be. How dare you We're talking about police violence, it you know a man died because at the hands of police you're not allowed to discuss other thing like that, as if you can't you know, have these two discussions going on at once, but that's a very powerful thing. That's been constantly used in these debates about how to respond and where the lines are drawn is that you came and talk about drawing a line, because we're supposed to be talking about this other thing and granted

we ve all aren't you know, I guess we should we need to talk about that other thing, but but we're spiral. Well that argument when when other- and there is no one to blame for that condition, but without them the violent demonstrators in the streets right I mean they did it. So there's a generational question here in ninety ninety one: ninety two in New York City- forgive me for going back minutes thirty years. So that's a long time ago right, but I did the Dickens was mayor of New York City and it became apparent. That when there was a racially charged incident involving cops and and civilians that he would hit, it was his biased to side with the civilians against the cops, and there was a particular moment. When a man named Kicker Garcia was shot up in stairwell in Washington heights by by a police officer named Dennis O Keefe and

the plaza showed up and he went to visit the family and he said the city would pay for the funeral of Kicker Garcia and then it turned out the kick off guard, There was a violet drug dealer and that the cop was in fear for his life, which which turned out to be the case. It took about two days or three days for the story to merge, but that the mayor had sided with a drug dealer, violent drug dealer who had, I think, pointed a gun at at the cop and not an ad presume that the cop was guilty of of this act of bias and and brutality was why the hallmarks that lead to Rudy Giuliani, winning the mayoralty of New York City the following year. Now it is

twenty twenty and I guess Noah's point and the whole question that was raised by what we are seeing here is: what does the same? majority, if there is such a thing, any more? What does that? What what to ordinary Americans think about what they are seeing on their television? Do Are they the populace of New York City and ninety? Ninety one? Ninety two in which they are like none in a wee wee side with the police against problems and the fact that political authorities are now moving literally to a position where they are siding with hoodlums and and illegality against the people?

this means that they have discredit themselves and they need to be thrown out of office, and we need to be governed by somebody else, or is this a different country with a different set of attitudes or are both attitudes being expressed at the same time by this wildly disparate and divided populace and were basically just gonna fall up along? You know it illogical lines here. Well, look I have a gas says to that, but I don't think it's worth speculating on it. We will get hard data to the effect one where the other sooner rather than later, it's almost irrelevant because policy make in american urban centres, now are faced with an existential crisis of what in a way that they had not faced in that in the last forty years. These the parallel a simultaneous events, the of the pandemic, which is a function of density, the economic,

crisis, and now these violent demonstrations in these inner cities are going to push as manage as much of the tax base as possible away thirty years of work. Shifting, the narrative about american Urban centres, making urban centres attractive places has been undone in the course of a spring and if american men there is an american managers of urban centres want to make sure that they can keep these enterprises functional. They have no choice, but to behave in a way that maintains the Tec. That tax base will look at it. This way to build the plaza was out of office. For thirty first twenty twenty one. So what is he care honestly where? Where what is his, what is his professional standing after a beginning in twenty twenty two he's an outlier. He doesn't like the job to begin with. Well now he's

outlier cause he had for eight years. The thing is that he is gonna wanna, be some kind of a progressive voice for the rest of his life. So the idea that he will act and ways to to ensure the city's long term, viability and vitality that that goes against his own personal interests, his personal, forests are now being as left wing it can be so that he retains its credibility. Far left, which is where he is going to position themselves for his post may oral career, and he hasn't even sixty years old, yet or he's just sixty years old or something like that Our friend Carl Smith, at national reason and shit thread about this question of what happens to the cities and are we gonna, have a repeat of people fleeing to the suburbs with their resources, you know setting up their new restaurants out there, where they are, where they probably don't have to get in a civil unrest, insurance writers on their property and Germans. And will we see this retreat, then? I think I think that you likely will

let me tell you, ll see some of that. If cities, don't respond pretty quickly with the sort of law and order type discussion. Now I do People who suffer the most when that happens, Arthur the bird tonight. There are the people who are left in the city who either can't afford to leave or dont really don't want to leave, and because the tax base falls there your resources, and yet there are higher demand for, for you know this data to provide resources to them and you a stagnation that that we know. We know how this turns out. We know how that story ends, and I think, if you add to that the ease of telecommuting work now and what the pandemic has done to change people's minds about haven't, had come into an office every day that actually exacerbates exacerbates the situation. So was right, but let's talk about what we talking about like just two weeks ago, or what no was talking about in the very interesting example is, of course, no. His favorite politician Eugene

the governor Yu Sector Voldemort of air, because of course, what you had was the phenomenon of these democratic governors and and mayors and stuff, like that, acting quite authority. In response to the crowd of Iris. Right I mean you had Bill the Plaza saying to the it out to it there also orthodox Jews of Brooklyn. You know this is it. You know we are getting use the full force of our powers so that you can go to a funeral right now. Granted, I'm I'm I'm parodying this, because he had a point. There was a point to be made about how mass gatherings had to be stopped in order to prevent the spread of arrests and the people were that. But of course, remember I've. A message for the Jews is basically what he sat right and whenever they also right- and everybody having mostly you Jews, Andrew Quabos, like daily. They don't think that you can do

go out and do whatever you want Gretchen Whittemore, making not not letting people sell seeds everywhere. You turned and fill Murphy saying you know whatever, Is that he's knucklehead you now I'm opening up the beaches, and this was that they have, but I wasn't downright oil. You know that you're trying to ensure that car around this car when you drive the highways, you literally see don't be a knucklehead on those little digital displays right. So the point of enjoying being authoritarian and putting their big thumb on on on the on the populace. Suddenly, there is then that offends liberal sensibilities and let you know and everybody sensibilities, but in this case that you know folds into a. Larger long term narrative on the left about in a police, brutality and systemic racism.

And suddenly feel Murphy. What it fill Murphy say on on on Friday, about or whatever it was now I get there I want to get the exact quota as the shamelessness of it is so egregious yo to so the blog YO on Friday says we are going to protect the right of everybody to peacefully protest. That is the most important thing in America. By the way you always get the sense from the left that the most important thing about America is the right to have demonstrations. That is America is about demonstrations because, of course, the left us, narrative of America. Is the Haymarket Riots yeah, but also regional ones, demonstrations don't work unless their violent. That's the other message. Right right must have accurate, but write history. The leftist history of the United States is is how demonstrations ended up changing everything in in wonderful ways for the better and not weaken

go into whether that's true or not, or whether. In fact, what changes things for the better in America is the participation of the citizens we both and self governance and in peaceful political changes expressed at the ballot box, which is actually what does it and and and representative government, where peep, where the elected officials are responsive to the populist but nonetheless. So there is this narrative history about demonstrations. Any leftist politician or liberal politician is in this way of the dream and the fantasy that the most important thing that they can do is allow for protest anyway, so be cut so they are then challenged by the fact that they're gonna be mass protests. At a time when John A week earlier, they were like if any six people put their toes in the water. Of Rockaway Beach we're going to pull them out of the water and beat them within it. Their lives. Yeah, ok settled then. So this is the quote from our governor is asked about the George Floyd protests. Nights

Yes, well in Jersey, the pretty well around this and obtain largely, but there were some violent protests in places like Trenton, Atlantic City and Governor Murphy said it's one thing to protest. What day nail salons are open It's another to come out and peacefully protest about somebody who was murdered right before our eyes so what's dissect the shamelessness of this statement, anybody governor was among them, who advanced, lockdown and phased reopening, not just as good public policy but as a moral imperative. Saving people's lives has covered themselves with such decide. Because what you're saying in that is not your nails salon that you can get your hair done and how up to now has heard here. That is its I'll. Tell you that it is providing for your families, is conducting commerce and should take using and provide an using services that not just make other people's lives better make your life is better but put food on people's tables. That is what is we should we should be looking a scam.

Because the true virtue is in demonstrating against this particular cause and John. You really deserve a day. Victory lap here, because you called this even saying this for months now and if you go back to our upon cast, I founded by the way go back to the past, where we had been Shapiro on. You talked about how the woodwork, liberal politics, Hence we need a change of incentive structures to, the sudden, engaging conspiracy that wasn't really conspiracy to deem the problem solved. The problem being covered nineteen has been deemed over, because the incentive structure, the competing values in the liberal imagination, between protesting riotous violence and against this racism and police violence vastly outweigh a public health crisis after another has been deemed over? It's just ignored

when an abstention sentences deemed over. If you dare reimpose these restrictions on people who just happened to be a police of because they put there, you will they they defer to authority. You will see in and backlash right away like that. But that is then I mean that's like there, the exemption, the earth or the protesters. It's like. You know people people talk about the abolition of the death penalty in this country. They always say that you know huge majority, against her. Her increasing numbers are against, are against it and then there's always a group. You say well how you what you think about terrorists should we call whether all well yes, yet territories, you should you who, I believe, in the death penalty. So it is it's a selective over Well, I know about you, but I can acknowledge here is that some people are police able in some people are not, and if we're talking about lockdown strategy exist only in so far as people allow themselves to be policed. Then its uninformed

Well, you're, talking about than it did in lockdown exists only as law as well as long as the gathering is small enough to disperse right now What is built right? What is build? The blog, you afraid I was afraid of attacking Alto Orthodox Jews for the crime of went to a Europe of going to a funeral? I he will why, because because they're not part of his base and because he knows that they're not going to come after him, I mean a lot of people came after, but you know that he knows that they're not going to go riot in the streets, and what is worse than that, because I think he also knows that by cracking down on that particular population he's sending a signal to two people who are in his base. Who would like to see that?

that why, but when, when it is costly to him, but forget whether or not he actually secretly supports the riots and all of that which obviously he does, I m sure he doesn't support looting, because what why woody Saturday probably doesn't like private property, but we can. We can put that to one side when, when he's in that position, and this is something that is really important to him- to oppose any sort of get stern about, he gets stern about. You know non criminal population going to a funeral and an is mildly, supportive of the ethos and beliefs and a belief structure. Of people who are at the very least kind of

citing emotionally with the notion that its peaceful protest, that that that trails into violent protest is understandable and understood Annabelle emotions like where was the palazzo saying look. I understand that you want to go out to the funeral to commemorate the death of this rabbi, who is so important to you, but you cannot do that right now, you're gonna make other people say so noble as your sentiment is. You cannot do that. He had no sympathy whatsoever, and this is what I am talking about. So the hard line of the corona virus, which is you're, gonna, kill people. If you do this right, which is a theoretic think as we don't know who has the virus, we don't know how they're gonna get killed in all of this, as opposed to not being stirred when you know that people are going out and taken garbage cans and smashing in windows of of businesses and destroying them and see

those businesses are smart. You know they're, not just all targets run by Dayton. Hudson, you know they are small businesses whose owners are ruined by what what just happened and they don't care Right I mean they care wherever they care. It's really don't you shouldn't do that, but this is where I think language not to on these sort of orwellian track here, but I think it's been really fascinating to see at the door. Below the the water line debates about what to call people who loot I mean I call them looters. I call people who beat up. You know women who are defending their property thugs because those words actually are applicable in those situations, but we were just texting early about how another AP guidelines is telling people telling reporters Pino. We really shouldn't use the word ludicrous. It has racial overtime No, it doesn't people who still hot who break into under the cover of mob its into into stores and steal stuff.

Hooters on Hey? Let me read what what what the ape he guidance is on this ok cause. It's it's worth hearing quote limit use of the term looting sum of long viewed. The word is carrying some racial overtones, particularly in the wake of natural disasters. Sensitivity is heightened now, in light of President Donald Trump looting and shooting tweet and the history of that phrasing day, into the civil rights era instead use a few more words to describe the actions quote. Some protesters broke into the store and stole whatever was these shelves for you, a literary crime beyond didn't use, re, avoiding concision win, writing or of report is, is a crime against journalistic and asked practice, and that alone in the oil industry have notion in a year this about, like the word urban and you're, not allowed to say the word urban as though it doesnt describe urban areas. Is it's a it's? It's a? U of effort on the part of veiled, racists,

to promote veiled racism. For some reason, the only people who wore a tune to this veiled racism are anti racist rate or actual racist couldn't hear this code. If you, if you put them, you view shameful sodium pentothal, they wouldn't have any idea. What you're talking about well it's funny somewhere novel, I'm reading and there's a dead the narrator is this gentle man in living in New York and that in this century- and he says, did he has killed over using the word. Do that Then it's a secret among gentiles. This, when you say do you feel as if you're you're, you're you're being in instead

today, the Europe that Europe that you're, like you know, saying something: evil huge prefers. A jewish people are some. You know something like that, but what novelists I think it's called to wake up at a decent, our ah anyway, that's right yet so I'm gonna be. Let me take a pause here and shifting few gears and talk about a one of our newest sponsors, Tommy, John Underwear. I know that sounds like a little bit of a stream, tonal shift, but them, but here we are because we're going into fathers day and at no and I both are being fathers, on fathers day. We know that are particularly now. It can be stressful, trying to find the perfect gift for dad. Thankfully Tommy John, the revolutionary underwear, including brand, knows the comfort is for everyone. Even your dad, so

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I would just with needed. Tommy John has the perfect give for all the dad's in your life deliver comforts dad's or twenty five percent off site wide at Tommy John Dotcom slashed commentary. That's Tommy done John. How sorry? Let me start again that is Tommy John dot com, slash commentary for twenty five percent off site I see site for details now we're gonna go into classic presidential politics, Is it looking bad for Donald Trump, and I'm saying that not I don't want people to get mad at me and they're going to send email saying that we don't get it and we're just so hostile to Trump and all of that more than console this morning has trumps favour ability in the handling of the riots at twenty percent versus fifty four percent who are opposed, and then everybody else's somewhere in the middle. I checked with a couple of people. I know who are up.

Ulster, but had no history appalling and all this nobody can remember a time at which a president got a number of twenty percent for the handling of a crisis. Ever just to give you a contrast, the violence surrounding the Ferguson Riots in twenty fifteen, someone like that Obama's approval, disapproval was four thousand one hundred and fifty three bushes at Bush Trump is two thousand and fifty four. Now? What does that tell you? I think it tells you that half of Republicans think that Trump has mishandled the riots and one can presume that. Maybe they think it's until the ride, because he's a paper type that is raging. He's talking about shooting looters he's talking about you know being the president. I am the President of law and order, as he said yesterday, and he doesn't look that at all he looks like he's a gibbet sing like a collar to a talk show.

He's on the phone governessing all work week get to do so. So I'll, look better. Basically, an and all I'm saying is imagine then he handles everything perfectly from here on, in though I don't think any of us, even those what handling it perfectly would mean. We now have a bad was for him with the virus and bad numbers for him. With with with There are some of the worst numbers of his presidency for his handling of this. This is very, very, very bad. For him use promoting the notion. Could blame shift here correctly, and you know absolve self some responsibility and has really done that he's saying I'm going to call out the military. He can't do that. He's not he's not all really allowed to do that. You can invoke some congressional measures to that would allow him some more leeway there. But a military response to these rights, as is the national guards Province, are in, and this is a state level issue that are there

there under the the authority of state level officials governor, except in DC, he has a little more leeway NBC, just given the weird and I'm wearing what happened last night. So there are two: things happened last night, one pretty atrocious the other one was pretty good, then we have to separate the two out. The first was before the curfew was imposed at seven p m, You see it around six. Thirty way, a turkey, by the way that was established by our mayor now by tromp betrayal, have confused about rights, though, before that curfew went into effect about six thirty, there was a gathering of peaceful demonstrators and lofty square with shred across from the White House in its officials, a police, discordant, began, moving forward, moving for moving forward and then according to officials within the of the people, but the people read your purpose. They should three warnings whose demonstrators to clear out before opening fire with nonlethal ordinance. Well ahead of the curfew,

Borders were on the ground. There say they hadn't. They did not have working and were not aware of these warnings, and they were right up front. So there's some dispute about whether or not that actually occurred nevertheless cleared out this park in order for the president to have a photo up, they wanted. He wanted to demonstrate that he wasn't in the bunker so that he could walk the first time in its presidency from the White House across the square to this church that had been set ablaze last night in order to have a rather facile photo up before a church that had been boarded up, holding up a bible for about two seconds before walking back to the White House- and then the White House made this really glitzy video of it to demonstrate that it really was just a photo up, that's not good! That was bad,

but then what happened later. Was military officials national our officials, to the extent that they could do so in coordination with police, where police had jurisdiction really rolled up these protests really effectively in a way that the president could say? Look, this is the model. This is what you should be doing: American Citys Urban Centres governors. This is what I did now. You need to do this to. I think that would be an effective message and that real honour what I've done. We can push back woman Otto. I don't think the photo of things so bad. I mean, I don't think it's crazy to want to see the the present of United States appear to be out and about and actually taking some action during a time of crisis. It is a historic church. I don't know that I think, he's get a meal it'll be bad. If the message about opening nonlethal fire on peaceful protests, it is

is that warning is the intentions at a time of MAC. Test will get back to that at a couple of things That we do not have confirmation of a couple of things. There are some reports at the end and there have been throughout these peace that I would call them clause. I peaceful protests from the I know there have been bottles and and glass bottles, not just plastic. Water bottles rocks bricks bottles. There have been things thrown at law enforcement are there? You know keeping ache, and I know this because I know members of law enforcement who work. You are doing those jobs. So it's not when we say peaceful protest make sure that we understand that the kind of verbal and occasionally physical efforts to assault the officers there is real. So I'm not an undoubted playing what any stupidity trump illustration I done you're. The second context is that I think noise right about one which is there, was no reason to do this. Fifteen minutes before curfew. Now there were ten,

there were a lot, a curfew lawbreakers out there last night that the d c p d, with help from other law enforcement agencies, an excellent job of training. Site and summoned. They were many them or were placed under rest, although not jailed, it should be noted. They had their hands tied, they're, giving a summons to appear in court refugees, so that was good and for the residents of DC, who saw it out of lawlessness and looting and violence on Sunday night that was reassuring and them military brought in to help protect around the White House to free up those officers to be around the city. Keeping order was a good thing, but why Trump couldn't wait until curfew, and then said. Okay now, we're under curfew meant to go visit this church. Why? He didn't call in advance to talk to the rector the church who, by the way, is extremely liberal and hates Trump and, as you know, no no fat of the administration, but he there are certain sort of things he could have done as a matter of courtesy and and political Maybe that we're just ignored- because I this is where I agree with you know- I think he just wanted this follow up.

So that was just and war and wanted the the images beforehand. Then wanted to demonstrate actually was not observing mayor, browsers curfew. That this has occurred. If I may add, is nor undeserving of these protesters, I mean lobby. Let me use some vulgar language here. I mean everything that that the president is doing is half assed. The speech that he may aggregate unimpressive LAR was for half ass, he decides he wants. Make a show of going out and not being afraid of the protester. He did it in a half assed way. Ill planned is ill fought through saying I'm going to do this at six hundred and thirty and then basically, given the secret service in the park lease or whoever no option in some ways, but to scatter the crowd as they might write

They didn't even know he was coming. Roma them only found out as they started coming out of the white has oh yeah negative, and rightly so, because we lose a he's a he goes, impulsive spontaneously impulsively, and this is the opposite of where you want. You want things. If you want to display command control sense of seriousness, you think things and you do them in a competent way. You dont expose yourself to the notion that what you ve done ere you ve done solely in order to make a video. You dont give your political rivals, hey you, don't make Hey with your political rivals by having them have an issue to beat you over the head with, and you don't have. Video images that lead lunatic

Lou check Mark an end, an idiot CNN, reporters and anchors to say you know where we're on the verge of a dictatorship. You know some of us would say in the most ironic way hollow via that that we should have a dictatorship. You know, the dictatorship right now, then, maybe everybody would be off the streets and the looting would stop. You know what we have the opposite of a dictatorship? We have cities that have descended into anarchy, literate, the anarchy and far from being a dictator. Trump is a paper tiger. He is showing. This is what I mean by he's, only slid twenty percent favor, reality because republicans are running in the other direction away from him, because they're looking and saying, why isn't somebody doing something about this and he is failing us and if

Most people go away and every one of them doesn't come back. Forget the fact that he was already facing an uphill climb according to polling beforehand. This started I mean he needs to get every single one of those people who says that he is not handling this well in his camp back in his quarter or you know he might. He literally might as well quit right now and not be then any more because he clearly doesn't want to be. What is why wanna, be president. This moment, like it's, a horrible job, it's horrible to have to deal with this terrible deficit with the virus. Everything like that, so I quit before humiliated November, because he's got a huge task here now, simply to get his coalition back behind him and again get ninety percent of it. You can presume that ninety percent of it will come back behind them and that number of twenty percent approval would go up to thirty, five

thirty six percent, but if it's not whereas overall approval is he can just kiss this election goodbye and everybody was listening to me. That's not me wishing it. That is, I mean really. Is it, and don't shoot the messenger well, and this is why I think it's incumbent- and I spent a lot of time yesterday after after National Guard tubes were coming to Washington, and they D brought up that's a military police from from four braggin debt to come, as backup if you're in DC, you knew you found out Sunday night that we did not have enough law enforcement people on the ground to containing you know, looting and writing. So when those you know when those image were shown to be a lot of friends who people who buy very dear friends of

of saying. Oh, my god, you know how this is it. This is the act like the tanks are rolling in its tenement square. I mean they were real in their their honestly feel frightened, because their fears that Trump, you know, he's gonna command these troops who to slaughter american protesters because he hates the laughter and the media. So my response was written. I tried to explain this to them as thoughtfully. I could. I was sort of relieved because, first of all trump I agree with John is a paper tiger He's he's in Thrall and sycophantic when he's around military leaders in General- and I would probably rather you know, have a the four star general calmly. Trying to keep or in a very you know it in and in a very small way on federal property round the White House, that I would trump sort of feudal do in his crazy thing, so I actually found at risk. Ring, but I'm more law order than my friends, but I do feel like especially among conservatives. We need to be very careful about

inflaming those that sort of inflammatory rhetoric about Trump being a dictator when an instead focus somebody is doing very poorly and what a lot of conservatives feel he's doing very poorly and not to about how we use this we're on our path to to fascism dictatorship, as I think that actually is now helpful at this moment. We do not need to exacerbate or or exaggerate his missteps here, he's just making it very evident age before people consumes that many too many facebook means you know the notion, We were on a pathway to fascism or civil war will be limited to the

storing, illiterate and overcome donated for whom we can safely ignore in it they had their unjustified opinions, but them they haven't over too much influence on them. Discourse as it is, I have a question and it's not I'm not asking it rhetorically. As a defensive tromp highlighted an honest to goodness question what should he be doing now, while the problem? I have no idea because he lost five, that he lost crucial days. I mean that's the only way, in other words like he knew to respond to this properly, the minute that it started by saying I'm calling all the governors will have some kind of a thing oh, I am consulting with. You know that I'm I'm I'm! I'm I want there to be a sort of task force of law enforcement officials, country wide that I am consulting with military and the National Guard, I'm I'm I'm suggesting that the governors call at the National Guard being

calm being resolute, and so he lost all bad and establishing the limits of his authority, not setting expectations that people don't understand. He can't meet like gonna call out the military and impose military force on states that have not requested it, which he is constitutionally unable to do? Well exactly. It's look the other thing to be said and which is important to be said, is that when this happens, if this happens, in other words, it has happened like a nineteen sixty seven, there were tanks on the streets of Detroit during the Riots in Detroit, that's one of the reasons Detroit died, I mean this as this as a end gretta. By the way I mean I don't know when this ends, I mean there may be no alternative in some places, but the application at least paramilitary avenue? The national guard is the military, so I mean

We need to call out the get out the Pentagon. You can use that national guardsmen are effectively a military force state by state under the command of each governor, but I don't know how this ends either vessel for three hours. In other words, if you take, if you send out the military, that is you doubt that is tree eyes, and the consequences of that, where it happens, will be severe beyond all reckoning if there are, if, if there are tanks on the streets of minneapolis- in order to prevent you wanna talk about flight, so the New York story is in nineteen seventy. The population of New York City or one thousand nine hundred and eighty the population of New York City fell to seven million. It have been eight and one slash two million nine, Forty, it was seven million and nineteen eighty because of twenty, almost twenty years of crime. It is

right now, eight and a half million, so they all came back and population terms, everybody It has ever really came back and all go away, but Minneapolis is like a city of four hundred thousand people. If I don't thousand people leave Minneapolis Minneapolis turns into Detroit, it loses its tax base, it loses its revenue and loses its downtown. It loses its sports on it. Granted to try to lose at sports team, but it could lose at sports teams overtime. Everything about the city will die. Every sitting on earth is facing that threaten the task right now is, is to put this violence down perhaps through maximum list means. But I say, then, that happened was the day after I write tat bet. That's over is for every major sitting in this country to end the lock down a hundred per cent There is a quite in the path, hypocritical imposition of these rights,

those that are only applied to people who obey laws are, cannot stand quote in the New York Times yesterday. That should be intuitive for everybody from one or two demonstrators slash looters, no one is afraid to lose their jobs because there are no jobs, Well, you know, but there is no opportunity for people, and small business owners should be allowed to Morrow to read to their businesses to do whatever they can to reopen to clean up and to protect their investments. Okay. So this is an important point, because the people who are who live legally and follow the rules, and all of that are then in position where they can determine level of their observance of lockdown protocols. In other words, if you're the way we ve been living, you don't see other people, you don't socialize whether people you gotta stores and masks, and maybe go gloves. You know you, don't you keepers,

apart, you dont use mass transit, everyone to do it. People will say be able to observe those protocols if they, if, if that is what makes them comfortable, as long as their employers dont demand that they return to work right. If the employers don't demand that they returned to onsite work, they can live the lockdown life with almost a hundred per then certainty and security that they will not either get or pass on the virus. So you can end the protein can end the lockdown regime. The logjam regime is only put in place to worse, people who will not live by it to live by it anyway, and that, as we have seen, is over that is over. Because nobody was really afraid of the virus. Is out protest it by definition, I mean I've a friend we had a socially distance session the other day and

hi. This is what I mean like, and I came within six feet of him and he stepped back. He was like I'm sorry, you know who got to keep our distance now. I don't feel that way about this, but he does he's an adult he's: a self policing person he self police. She wants six speed. He kept six feet away from me. We still saw Why that's? How it works when, at one of the interesting things about all the rights and an protests in the last week, that. The sort of traditional argument about the professional activists, whose always ready, willing and able to drop everything and run out and protest, are that they tend the young Lloyd or underemployed. They do not have young when they do not have a lot of the responsibilities that would allow you at that they have freed up. They have the freedom to do that and we know after several months of lockdown, that more people have that freedom, not that they chose the hat. They don't have to be anywhere. They don't have anything to do, and so it's not a surprise that we see night after night of me

violent activity and breaking her few and doing all of these things, because what else no is right when it is there to do, and they don't feel any risk, because right now, there's no reward for in the future unless they see a job opportunity or something so I mean I was looking. The police log. This morning that gets in IRAN in our neighbourhood of all the people who were arrested last night for breaking curfew, and there was one person who is over the age of thirty everybody, also was young, and we didn't even see the juveniles is just people from the age of eighteen to twenty five. Basically, and yet they have no They're gonna do they're not in school. There note there. No activities are no cams said this spend a situation where we ve kind of weirdly turned the whole world into potential protests from especially because again, as you said, there is no social distance distancing past or required, and that John you're pressure on this point too, I just were called when crossing was talking genocides, guys global. You said like month back this goes on to you

you want young man standing round letting fires and garbage Canada. You said that on the pod gas awhile you know I've, no I've, no memory that, but you basically as long as you give people in a reason to some light fires and garbage cans, because there's nothing else who had this. What this is a reason, and too many people who are not vile, we're not looters who are not interested in just you know, causing violence. Were you know, and I kick Antigua, whoever they are. They still. You know that they think by going out and being around all this. They are doing something noble because they aren't, they are outraged, as many people are by the by the interview. Most of us are by the by the killing of George Floyd, and they want to express their outrage, and that's the perfect cover for the. I can't live like this anymore. Noah said four months after two weeks

the walk down that it was unsustainable, but his presumption was that all the demands of ordinary life would crack. The wood rat would cracked the locked- and I was always skeptical of that, so it turns out that it wasn't the demands of ordinary life. It was an extraordinary, bent that blew it up, while our bay was, and nobody foresaw that rail, whether you can, by definition right Our patting ourselves in the back. I did on this podcast entertain the notion that there would be violent, organised civil unrest and in civil disobedience aside. I your vampa, We have, but it wasn't about the lockdown. That's the whole world, they re in Iraq that is related to the euro should be about meeting. It turns out it needed to be about something else. Well, I'm look since this is actually the point on which I have been agreeing with a lot of my extreme the progressive friends. This is bad for everyone.

The sense that the violence, the looting of the response to it will be all of it distracts from what actually should be a national conversation about the police and about African Americans experience with the police, which, in fact, until a lot of the the sort of hijacking of some of these protests by violence, the looting and and the kind of urban disarray has been going on until that happens. That was that there were members of that there are very hopeful glimmers about that. I think that to get that back on track- and that's one of the things to answer the question either yesterday by what Trump could do, a good leader could do that it doesn't have to be the president. It could be someone else, but the kind of have avoid of national leadership in Gentlemen Biden just got up and made a statement where he acted as if he's never been elected office- and you know it isn't this terrible just elect him mean he's a decade

hung career politician who, who, what had a lot of power when previous rights occurred and when all this police brutality was was happening so that the idea that we, the it's not just the trump is bad. Is that there's no one else either? I feel like the real right of national leaders. Writer we'll have widened the has button condemned eluding at all. He has in the language of it. You know with some weak tee thou, but you know somebody someone said to me this morning, like you know, who's speak it whose picking out whose began I'm like well, that's not the way works like politicians, don't you others, the president to speak nationally and again in that half ass thing, the first major address that he gives the country the one in which he reads the stage instructions. Yet again, it says I am the president of law and order. We note by the way this is the other thing. I mean it

for the present of law and order and the cities are and are in a condition of of lawlessness and disorder. What are you saying What are you saying I mean you know? That's like I don't think that's a good thing to say with screen with yellow peoples, I a window like, but where it out speaking well, by the way, we should mention one thing about Biden that is astonishing and yet get gets to the point that he may end up being a president, but is because of it's strange realities, but it does not see to be up to the job was the sub serve cast a mine. He showed the other day when we start talking about what cop should really do and how you know what they should really do: issue people in the leg: they should you people, if there you know if their. If their aim people are aiming at them, they should use of you don't shoot him in the web. Well,

at happens to be something I know a little about four weird reasons: all training, all military training that involves officials cops anybody like that court who have to use lethal force with a with a gun. They are trained laboriously over time to shoot at the torso, the trunk of the body. Why that's? Why? Because, if you do shoot at the largest target on the body, which is the verbal meet up between the chin and the and the growing area that bullet could go off somewhere else. It's actually harder to shoot. Someone in the leg. Like you know, not everybody's a sniper you're, not James Colbrand, the magnificence of it. You know the reason we all know. This is because not because we all have special police training or firearms training is because we were all privy to this debate. For a decade

in Joe Biden, was vice president, because we ve been talking about the use of police lethal force for a decade and people absolutely no understanding of how guns work had been saying. Why don't we train police tissue, like they're in Genoa, movie yeah she and the incapacitate people by aiming at extremities when I know this because as they offer a decade, its people this means in particular out themselves. A media is never ever having handled fired clean weapon when they speak. Like that, I mean he probably I'm surprised the say. Turn it sideways to really like look ridiculous, Then you want all the Vietnam and then, as you, walk away things blow up behind you and you dont react to the other figures. That someone in the leg than you turn around the building blows up. I do and you act like it. It didn't happen so that, as the possible expressly United States suggesting that the cap should people in the leg so that that is really that's good. That's really

I would say, hopeful sign for the future, so everything is terrible now and we have absolutely no reason to think that everything will be terrible future and, of course that is where we and every cod cast. The crushing veracity. That is arguing that we should just change they with of crushing Marasa will we will endeavour to Caen Then you to the press, you on a daily basis, for a Christina. Now, I'm John put words keeping animals.