I my name is Michael ashore, and I feel you know fine about no brain, that for no exclamation point nine underline is fine, Alex! No, that's too much emphasis. I stress the word is really has to be neutrally mutually read hello there and welcome to Colonel Brian needs, a friend, I'm Conan, Polly obvious and joined as always

obvious by now something's wrong, joined by Saddam Ossetia. Hasten a look, this morning. Show a morning, DR time, show that it has on whom gradients yeah sure does will do in some, whether in traffic and just a minute, Matt Goarly also joining us aim at a key Ray is if we did use part of the budget to rent a helicopter. You know like the way someone else talk about traffic patterns and what's happening, and we have a helicopter and its flying around. But it's doing Serving no function on the by catch is what the deal is just every now and then I'm checking you met the checking it with the Caribbean needs a friend trap. You know that I'm just ain't Kay, Connell Brains, friend chapel, you know we Erin,

had set their hair in and around you can come. My MIKE, I everyone what's going on and we will do, is, would put you'd be in a chopper and you'd be flying around LOS Angeles and which is the second aim. It's? U every now and then its pot class of people listen to it either now or six months from now, or they never listened to. Checking web traffic web traffic play common Netscape did it was good that was pretty well she's, not commenting at all and what he seeing in the helicopter. Now they have a covering at a computer sauna. Please can't be more clear about this. The hell up, after serves no function, and I want when we play this. I want there to be helicopter noise, ambient helicopter noise around play. I know exactly what it's like and I just a,

checking now at the corner by needs friend Chap were again man play up in the chapel. That's our own shop or that we bought, that is to be chapter, was formerly used in our present desert storm. We ve heard purchased it for one point: six million dollars we painted the Conan Logo and aside and am player, is now

above LOS Angeles or by the Junta, one freeway how the downloads go in mass you're going down, show midmorning. Ok, thank you very much for the air and become the blame man up in the chapel rotor bathroom. Can we put a coffee. Cannot therefore, reason is a coffee and its specific purpose in mind. I'll pay will be taken. Can I asked him about what he seeing like, maybe like hey? How is that has the weather up there in the China now, because I actually, then that gives there the beast It gives there to be granted. I think it's chopper fumes and I'm high on

it some purpose to the chopper and important that the chopper have no purpose. So, even if play said, Clia skies, people here that, when they listen to this episode, seven months after it drops guess, run along car trip and their favorite pie ass doesn't have a new president. Haven't you drop the item we want them to know what the weather was like today? It's gotta be useless information. So no, why can't you get your head wrapped around sorry, cept, hey? Can I fix it? Can you fix it matches? The sun is in many sub right now I am saloon yes, some room for this purpose. So now is in a small. This is a real purposed nineteen. Fifty nine korean many sub her that we, just from the air from the a clean government that Korea try to get a north korean when they are not now

swear it's illegal for us to trade with them anyway. So nor has it going. You are now says here: you are thirty: five leagues under the sea in a civic ocean off the island of Madeira to leave. I just made up that island. What's up so nobody, you see, I do see a lot of water and it's really it's really cool little noise. Very good bad are now I'm not very good at being, and it is that. Well, I don't know what to tell you then clearly at an away you volunteered to man the many sub. If you now confessed to us, you're, not very good at bay, did I did not bother to your bad made me go down here, bad improv, to deny what I just laid out could cause damage to your sub. Always yes, and so not always yes, and that's the first thing you learn when you join the Navy. Yes, and so let's try that again, ok, so now you ve clearly been drinking a lot in the minutes that kind of alcoholic even drinking. Yes, I had said you know I had a cover martinis down here. We and we see us just say, team, any martinis Zuni, I too many martinis, also fur seal joke and it works even so far under the Pacific Ocean. Yet if goes back to our chamber now, Erin tell us Europe in a chopper for expensive chopper ILO sinks.

Erin up there in the chapel right now tell us what we for us in the Caribbean needs a friend, podcast chap. I today see pixelate in the end, the gifts and appearing Jeez by gonna be downloading stuff, may ask gonna get you need. That's the kind of information, you need help, after this revised Mens Sana, of course, do in your best friend

now? It says junior vast says you are a hundred and twenty two modoc monocle nautical monocle miles. I don't know my problem is article miles in to see many to my father and I am in this submarine. I am, I am exploring shipwrecks, so you are taking on water very quickly. You Travis and Soda for improv. You dont say yes and in every sentence it's going the Spirit of yes and but you don't say yes and that's terrible improv in its own way. Ok I am taking on water. I am, I don't know I don't know. I wish a bright schoolboy equipment instead of these more de Vigo, yes, and that would have been a good idea doesn't quite work, yes, and let's get this show started

Yes and yes, I have quality content experts come check the quality of this pipe gassed open you. I do fear what if play, was in a real chopper, and we were doing this conceptual bit about how the chopper was unnecessary and then lay crashed in that chopper. That would just be terrible, and I have to make that John. No, no, no he's not in a real chopper. I can make tat joke but what I'm saying is. I would hate to have to tell his family Debbie why. Why was our son in a chopper he didn't have to in a chopper. That's what was so funny about. It hurt me in a submarine and then actually asked me about what I was saying in the summary I mean I don't know why he can have a useless helicopter, but I ain't actually like pay attention in my son's inmates. Unless what the fuck is going on.

Anyone to edit this open into something that makes some semblance of sense ass, go ahead. Anyone out there listening, you feel free to edit. This. gathered to either a make more sense or be Less sense then said, it in lets. You know how you did Well, listen, safe home dishonour. To an Blair in their dangerous strange, unnecessary crafts. We a terrific show? today is an Emmy award, winning writer and producer behind some of the biggest television companies of the last twenty years. He's worked on such shows as the office parks and recreation. Brooklyn, nine, nine and the good place. The Lord He now has a new book how to be perfect. The correct answer to every moral question available. Now I am thrilled he's with

today Stream Lee Townsend gentlemen, make sure welcome. First of all, I want to initiate any of the uninitiated out there, who don't know about the great make sure you have been part of. So you put it best, yeah literally everything. Yes, make sure has worked on and and help create and right has been fantastic. I've looked, for a flaw in the armor. I can't find it. I can't find the one pilot you did about their the talking rabbit with no legs completely bond and four eighty percent error, but it wasn't girl, but it was only. He was on european how it sees the six where he gets wheels. Sap. As I glad you pointed out

brazen people think that's for the show jumped the shark, but MR travels it was called, but no I want to discuss your right now for everyone. Listening the good place, the office you worked on the office you played Dwight cousin Moses, with the most improbable beard I've ever seen. it is it Moses are most its mouth is mass Mozart, mass murder. You mess that he was too, he was giving it a formal name of the care. I call him, but yes, his name is mouse. You play his brother Mose and send us alive fact checking going on for his own use. Then brother, it's nice right, Ireland, I'll fix it. Thank you for listening to this progress, but he doesn't watch your shoe is its skirt. C h, you aren't right. Here was no one

Jack I'm now, let's just see at the end of that in our own, you worked on a show called parks, recreational, but I've got to send the good points my favorite characterless shitty. Yes, you I didn't do this all day. It's just you have read. You just read the Wikipedia Mathematical now to pronounce I'm reading Wikipedia now on you in writing press for you, sir. It says you're born in an arbour Mitch again, you don't even know the. U S state. This is that this has now gone from. You didn't do any prompted. Yes, you have a deficiency of Asia. Now connected you move to conduct a kit which is where you were raised. Got hold of me. She do for an hour and a half, but you ve worked on all these brilliant shows and your comedy pedigree is really superb and I

you for being here, but the purpose today and Think this is something I really excited about. Is you ve written a book how to be perfect? The correct answer to every moral question, and you bring up in this book. Many things- that I've thought about an I'm, an immoral man What is essentially for you. I saw that sitting a dedicated. It was dedicated to current o Brien in the hopes, but he read and learn. Maybe that'll help is what did you call me Dahmer of comedy right, which I think a very sophomores Bundy, because my social skills are off the charts right. You're very cares mad on charismatic hands, yes and a psychopath. Yet how hard it is to get the door handle on the inside of a veto view, but it's not easy high things took a very. Archer very quickly.

I remember you talk about something in the book where tipping at Starbucks yeah and in this book. You really are trying to take people through ethical questions and and- and you can learn from this book but itself- the very funny and light you taken to these ethical questions and you talk about you STAR bucks Starbucks, but you want to see the person but we still see you give the tit right. Yes, that was the thing that that hit me was that I waited until the brief to turn back around with my car before I point we have under way as we have all done, that yeah Zone

you done that only a year I have, I want to say no, but I have. I dont think you Tipp why another thickly team for the work he has done with you when you said I gotta get chip for european traffic. First, my whenever you're with me, you you pay for every man is rooted in those where the back into that little factoid. Well, I do thank you. I like the idea of soya waiting until the Brits it turns around and then not to be about looking at em right and then she folded her arm, but she also Do this thing, sometimes where you show deeper, How much cash you? How have you show them tons of one's yeah and you liked a fan them out like a poker player in then I show where it goes, where I would have put these largest show how easily advance the temperature, but then you take it outright exactly Friday. I want them to see that right and then you just say do better next time. I think you know the ways in which you couldn't improved. You know what you did so much.

in that same way, just as we were starting the Pied cast an eye so embarrassing, and I have to bring this up, but you mention that you I'll just they accuse and I'm a reporter reporting. What happened? Did this was so your favorite pot cast an eye I know there are no ever said yesterday. I remember you said it and and and I no, no, no, no. We say that

on the air, so listen all join. You don't have to do that now. I do when I said about how I feel about cases of I'm very thrilled to be here. This is honestly, no joke my favorite podcast Erika it's I'm very starstruck to be sitting with so now I hear Matt Gorlias Voice and its in its rays over there. I can't look at any time in the eye and say yes, I want a huge fan. It's incredible that you just said Diana and Mary- and I am very happy to be here so I just hiding. Let's get that out of the way, let's get out of the way, but much like honing. You can take fifty we're just going to disappear. Mice like the chip jar. What it might might the point I'm trying to make is. I did the same thing. You talk about this, your book? In a more general note, you can appraise the podcast if, if proof, is given in the forest, but no one there to see it was. Their phrase ran. That's how I have always interpreted by saying the tree falling,

here. There is no one here, someone compliment me danger, they even have it didn't they didn't have. Therefore, and so that's why I need you to write out what you sell, em we're going to need to somehow get it published. I don't even know how that just sky right, it may be heard something board a plane in your it out. Here countless pilots crash drawing a right that so little keep lives their law does not permit me to write that pilot. Had six kids, I counted a pilot. All it says is this is my favorite and then a crash. So let me ask you this than if you're saying you did this because in the book I read about this long journey, I went through time why I didn't want it meant ready when, when you noticed yourself doing it, what was your feeling about yourself, not good our I'll. Tell you something. There was a episode, leave it to Beaver. King famous black and white

very modern, modern reference intemperate, I'm taking the younger people along with us, there was a famous sitcom. That actually was quite good so a single camera sitcom from the early sixties, Hollywood Beaver Anders episode with the older brother. They ask everybody to donate to a friend of their as he's been in an accident and the older other, has fifty dollars in his pocket, and it's like a fifty or bill which, in nineteen sixty as a huge amount of money and he's been saving to buy a car, and it's the only We has so when it's his term to put the money the box and everyone's looking. He doesn't put it in many feet. spanning goes back later on and puts the money in, but no one saw her rank and that's what the episode is about that burned my brain when I saw that re run as a kid. I too we thought. Yes, you have to go and tell everyone by the way I did go back and put the fifty in, but the point of the episode. Why

is no you. Don't God knows where the what you did was the right thing and realized that moment as a kid, but I was on the wrong side of this year. I mean the the the question you see an enormous anonymous donation to a museum or a symphony or anything. I have a cop to the feeling of moral curiosity, but I just want who it was miss or or just straight up. Gossip like I just want to know who did that and at times especially in the city, I think that there are monogamous donations that are made because may be the people who are making them would know that a museum gowers, wouldn't necessarily like the fact that this particular person is donating to this museum. There's also people like the saddlers who I was just going to bring up the sad eyes. You are responsible, largely responsible for the opium oil crisis in this country who play

their name over a million charities in order to kind of try to either. Why wash the reputation or they're just ego maniacs, and by the way we despite cast, gets alive, money from this act right now. It's ratio on right. This Adler, Leslie Recyclers Raytheon, dynamic, see Zuckerberg by satellite and defence. A lot of people that we get host the money from manufacturers of missile soon anything that guidance systems laser guided in society as landmines. We are hugely under that's how we got these great amazing microphone, just a shout out to general dynamic landmine, something they want to know about it. It is not right for such out on this, but is this? This gets into a big thing: we're going through an hour our country. I have always thought that putting your name up and having it inscribed chiseled in stone is a bad idea- young and

and that is something I was thinking about before. I read your book in your your book in so many ways just fired all these different neurons are things I was thinking about, but, for example, the a when they gave to museums were very controlling. about? This is where we want the money to go. This is big. Our name has to be right. This is their name has to be all over the place. It has to be in the men's room in the women's room. It has to be on the urinal and they gets into the whole question of. Why are you doing this and performative acts of goodness and kindness, which is, I think, also been a huge issue during the pandemic- sure I've and many times were people has said this crisis is that crisis, and so we would really love it if you wore this shirt or war that sure or said this slogan on the air- and I feel two very uneasy about it, because I'm

I've acts we honor dyed in the wool racist now now now none of those things, but I never wanted my committee to mean anything. You know I never wanted. I've wanted to try and make people laugh yeah, but I ever wanted. The comedy too, like educate, elucidate. It will show you the right way to the dangerous terrain for a comedian to be like I'm. This is your laughing but you're learning as well like that, and that's a scary thing. Part of the point of writing a book to me. Was these questions. Don't have answers, there's no, there's no, like that the bright title of the book as a joke. Obviously, because the point is that you did not answer here the right thing to do. It's you're always saying like well: what's what's that? They're both bad, what's the slightly better version and you try to aim at the slightly better version to the best of your ability. Social media has made it very tricky because any

can hashtag do the right thing. you know while they're taking you know I selfie of them in a thong burning, attend thousand dollar bill and that's the right listen. I know not what I'm saying is despite hashtag bad and it's like hey I'm still guy, because I had to do the right thing, confusing situation. I was trying to imagine what bizarre version of the aid less challenge thong and burn a tenth. I hope ten thousand dollar bill get on that. Would you Matthews there are ten thousand dollar bill and whose on it is it Tilden who?

It's gonna, be some obscure. Olives Jagger tell him, I think it's tilt, it's gonna be held and killed in till then please. This was until dinner. He tells me that filled in Sweden, ok, the ten thousand dollar bill, featuring the portrait of President Lincoln Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P Salmon J C S, family yeah, yeah salmon PJ's, like the fish, spelled out what are really not the thing to going to ask for youth she's right. They ran got onto a forty minute conversation about salmon, so did Titus bag to do your job for a second and make this podcast get back on the rails when you're gonna happen dirtier. So when you're talking about the tipping thing, like that's performative, but it's a performance for one and that's what interesting about it to me. It's like I, when I found myself doing that it was like the only person

would even see this is the person who is receiving the Tipp and it. So it's it's a micro version of performative, yes donation or giving or whatever you call it and yet still when I realized, I was doing it and had been doing it for a long time. I felt like gross about it. I felt like sex that's because I was I get my so shallow. I need even on an individual basis. I need people to know that I'm a good on the good kind of person who tips that's a view. Odd human foible- and I think I daresay I wrote about this, I went around and asked I did a stronghold of all my friends in every single one of them copped to doing essentially the same thing. Yes It's a fascinating thing about humanity that we on an on a one to one basis. We want other people. I weirdly think it's an optimistic thing, because I think what it means is. We all want to do. Good things and we want to be seen as the people- good things there's something, even though it's kind of weird I still I took some hope from it because a I feel like it

instinct, is in us somewhere to none we do a small kind gesture, but to beast is the kind of people who do those gestures, even if its basing I'm kind of I don't know. Maybe we can. Hopefully, Walter. He says it's a societal glue. It said ass if it when when you look at four of January Sixty can really feel which really what's gonna hold this thing to gather right and I think individual acts of goodness, even if even They are done so that people feel can feel like a good person. Getting India were there's no such thing as innocent, completely selfless act. If that's what This, together than fine yeah, I'm the scary thing when you're talking dogma, lino national or global advances, like you know, you think like this. Is it's a nice idea that these

little acts of kindness or societal glue can hold us together, but there are institutions that are far it's a little bit like the global warming thing right, like driving electric car. Useless water when you water yard, those are all good things to do and then you read an article, it says I will. Eighty five percent of the water use in California is used for agriculture, so you turning off your far away brush her teeth like it, even every single person in greater California did that still enormous. Other things that need to happen ride out to me is the the danger is that you get into this its own of wild. Nothing matters, nothing man and it doesn't matter there. Why should I bother an end? I do feel even though it is true factually true that turning off your water, when you're brushing your teeth, isn't going to solve the drought,

that the mindset that goes along with acts like that? That is the that's what's important. This gets into not just moral rules, but I have comedy roles. I know you have comedy rules, for I knew army are mutual. friend Gregg Daniels has a lot of common rules and where a believer in comedy rules, and if we see other people not following comedy rules or we think taking short cuts, It can make us it can cause us some kind of pain. But if it looks like it's working than you That's because you more pay us anymore and rage, and then I started to think well what am I have my stupid rules for, and I think that's not the point- the point near us I made these rules a long time ago. I think these rules are important. They are important to me. They may have end up being meaningless, but I need to follow that path. Yeah

it's one of the hardest things about trying in any way to to be ethical in the modern world is that you can look around and see a whole lot of peace. Who are not only not trying but are actively trying, not to be ethical and there like really rich and powerful. This new idea. What's the point then of of trial? its harder to to make ethical choices very frequently. It's the more difficult choice. It's either more recourse, time. Energy money concentrate whatever and when you see a bunch of people who were wildly successful by flight, The very concept of being ethical or carrying or having any kind of moral compass, it's a real bummer. It system Well, then, why am I working so hard to figure out what right move is where I park in this grocery store parking lot or whatever, when there that guy's, the you know as a senator like half living is like and, lastly, we have side or trading and we have a yearly,

if in the room, is weak, we ve had a president Trump, even his followers. His ardent followers dont think he's an ethical parson They just think a screw it that doesn't matter. I like like a swagger, yes, and so I think, an that's a hard core mega hat wearing. trumps should serve thirty five terms in China and should continue to serve after he's a corpse. I still, Sir, that person, if you started to like what can we just look at his ethics to say, ethics methods? Are we talking about? That's all we're talking about, and you think well I mean yes. nobody's nobody's perfect by this- is someone who clearly thinks that that Why? I also think that part of that is that we have now been through many number, presidents and senators and everybody Sousa power in this country who have claimed to care. ethics and have been revealed to be deeply unethical people, and so I think part of that attitude is actually to my mind. you're standing, yes, it's like one dollar

Guy said he was not the last guy. The sky was ethical. We know we Bill Clinton said he was claimed to be a sort of like ethical upstanding guy, and he had certainly has more than his share of problems, and so do any number of senators in Congress, people who, as who have put forward the idea that they are the good kind of? right in and it's like, there's a terrible skin yeah. You know, anyway, that transport would say, and in and maybe they're not wrong is even likewise. I refreshing this is someone who sat didn't pretend rank, didn't pretence that hey look, I've been in New York, real estate, yeah and me you know tomorrow he's I, where I know this system only. I can work this system like yes, yes, he was bragging about the fact that he knew how to get dirty and that in the end, the people, I think we're refreshed, felt a sense of like this is

pushing the young. Is that he's just saying like you, I'm gonna do a bunch of weird stuff. You have no idea how terrible I be. He told us that are frightening is in his inaugural address. He said just watch, you do, you know you and that it is going to be on hand. You gotta get that because you know we ve been this. There's this diversity. In the last year and a half to years of taking down statues, we clearly have had these great people in history. That country the great things in great ideas, member status to them and then were confronted with great flaws in their character. Things they did and there's a big debate I have long been of the opinion that there shouldn't be statue of any human person data data. Many you carved something out of stone right and put it up you

at the same time. You might as well set a time yes because there's an exploration that there's an expiration date on all of us and its. Why I was raised very Irish Catholic and in the church and grew up seeing people put into caskets and there a grave side memorial and I for in time of just side I don't wanna, go and want a grave. I dont Whiting, I don't want any piece of earth fits.

As areas where this man was because I think I'm ok with just going away years where this man that well, that was, I spent a lot of time trying to sum up. My life came up. Here's where this man was stirring, tribute here's where those areas where this man, why wait so he lived here at his grave? No look was it the best I was trying to be highlighted out wrong just by its written in stone. Certainly you had time over your life to change. Here's where this man was no, I sat here. You wrote it into your will round about press him to say you have the stone made nine years before you die. Does notoriety step one stature, their seven statues? I've always

to be found in a left in a field somewhere where I can be found by people verify like heads on scavenger hind, finding me and then that traumatized them and that's how I live on. You wanted to harm and want to be the cold open of law and order of yes, jogger common stumbles on. Do you always a jog jug, there's, always a jogger and then, like all my guide and there, in the middle of some personal drama, with their girlfriend, you, you and my mom never got along and Quota o Brien O Brien anyway, come to the no one should get a statue and I'm bothered I'm gonna say when I tried by huge tracts of land that had been given up to graves. I always think a timer on graves people visit them fur yeah. You know of time and then those people pass on and then no one knows who that person was an years all this beautiful land. There could be a chuckle she's

when I think should be a jockey cheese, knew you got a little Boston with the American Indian Nearly every funeral men arrives. I showed me a juggler Jellia strategies, the things that I forward here first fall, is someone out. There is going to use my my gravestone saying whose, where this man lawyers were this not set up for this man was

and I think there will be a movement to turn most large graveyards into Chuckie. Jesus said only natural to natural FED. Have kids playing video games are on a pile of dead bodies instead of a bit. So, instead of the giant been balls, it's going to be just to see all rolling aroused and like the pool and poltergeist hour, I have a number of things to say about this, because I guess I generally agree with you. I think that the problem is statues. Is that once a thing is, carved in marble and put on a pedestal and the like: one year ago by every loses perspective on the reason it was done to begin where the cell, in this recent version, this recent move meant to take down some statues of people who may be are deserving of them that there is no difference. There's some and being made between a statue of let's say, Thomas,

for since put was put up in eighteen, o, seven or whatever, and a statue too. Confederate general that was put up in like nineteen fifty two in New Orleans as part of a we wish Segregation. We're still happening movement right because, after a while, you look at the two things in their just to stone or marble statues of famous people on horses. And you don't understand that there is an enormous difference between venerated. A and venerated guy be in terms of the motivation behind it and the people who did it? Yes, so that so that's one problem. Another problem is that what you're saying? But the countdown clock is real, my my pitch for the for the statue industry for big stature they don't have invested in Amerika. We also get a lot of money from the extension of the fact that my pages, if you put up a statue there, Border review did after some amount of time, twenty five years, fifty years whatever

produce it and says like do. We still want this statue air and they only have to constantly check in because new information could have come to light or the world Could have changed in some way. The now means that this person that the problem is that the the Van racial, the at the eternal life. And the integration of these people, without any one b, able to waive their hand a little bit later and say: hey you didn't take into account this aspect of this person. Right is problematic, and the last thing I would say is that its very tricky to judge People- the past on the standards of the present yeah, and we This country has this enormous reckoning in a lot of different ways. You know not just meet do and then Post George Floyd ratio societal reckoning but In general, we are a very different country than we were even call it twenty years ago and so there is a temptation to take the standards that we have now and go back to seven, in seventy six and say well that person didn't live

these standards in the and it's like will know, of course, that person didn't live up to these. and if you try to apply the current standards too We won in history. No one will measure up not just not just Thomas Jefferson and George John Adams and and Abe Lincoln, but you and like the. If, if someone you- and I both were now Ireland out- oh wait a minute, I would hope I would hold that. I am a bedrock morality. I think you're statue we a part of mediately. I think the people smelting it would get up to eighty horror airing it down as they were. We have yet to see, I think it above the waste and they get to be still chiseling away at the torso someone on when they would start taking it up. The heart and mine would continue to exist long after this planet doesn't exist shore. So I note your point is here blind completely lot here lies this perfect matter here is where it is perfect: man's rise, I guess the only point is to say later. That's my border view. That, yes, is like. Let's say: let's

Let's give ourselves a little bit of a break in terms of applying all standards that we now have here in twenty twenty two retroactively to everyone we ever existed. Yes and but an say like we're, not gonna do that, but we are also going to stay that every so often we're gonna check in and say who were the people that we are choosing as a society to celebrate and venerate and who should be the the the people who represent our country and if those people don't give up, and it's like cable tend to move on my ass some people. Some people are sacred, like look, George Washington, owned slaves, there's no way around that. He also was the guy who founded the country. So, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater in every situation right, but- and this is the key you also dont- pretty and he didn't own slaves and like that, that that's that, The drive me crazy in this in the people who are complaining about the way that the country's gone the way to doing this. Now, it's like they want to try to compete

mental eyes, people and there's no reason to do a George Washington isn't offended by what we say about him. He's been dead for two hundred years and I dont see the problem in saying how two ideas in our head. At the same time, he was offered that he was offered king rife yelling for lie. Often he finds it down right, and so let's celebrate what is amazing and incredible about that guy and when do that lets also remember that he was a flawed person who lived in a flawed way who owned slaves, which is a reprehensible thing to do, and not try to pretend that either of those things is untrue. I'm reminded sometimes others illegal term we will have zero tolerance and as something lawyers came up with meaning we can't be sued we say this company, you no evil cut, Has zero. Has taller, also a supporter of the progress that documents started, huge support or their Lloyd. I was all around its area they are of of the maker.

Evil there, the bad they are. They really get it thereby, but evil cut. can say we have zero tolerance for any kind of shenanigans and, Tolerance is not human right and so we're in a place where I think people mistakes and for giving them or putty mountains, the context of their larger life seems like it? It gets lost in moments, yeah, I mean look. I think that most of the people that I hear complain about what they now somewhat reductive productively and almost meaningless Lee referred to as cancel culture are really. Planing about essentially concept. yesterday I swear. I cried the old days, meaning pre nineteen herb two thousand seventeen. I could do whatever I wanted and I would never get in trouble for anything and now suddenly, I'm getting in trouble for things. What the hell right, not argument is extremely

Yes, the heads of the bad, our know how it happened. I want to say I am one hundred percent in agreement on that. I think, when I talk about forgiveness rum, trying to do it. Is this a lot people who are afraid, take on questions of morality, right questions of ethics. what's the right decision, because it can inevitably lead to well here I probably made the wrong decision and I think that needs to be county for and you account for in your book. You say that you can take this pursuit and you can find yourself lacking and people can find one another lacking, and it doesn't mean they're, damned to an eternal hell right. So, though, the last thing that I wrote in the book, the last chapter in the book is about apologizing and what I say is essentially this isn't really ethics, but it's sort of like adjacent somehow, which is like we're gonna screw up when you screw up like it's hard, apologizing socks, its

hard, and it's embarrassing and your face gets Hoddan you avoided. Keep you keep like having conversations with people? You should apologise to you and then not apologise while you're, tired, but apologizing in meaning the line I was like. I don't know what the fuck disguised you workin, refuse. Yeah. Sorry didn't pay you last year will petering out. I should have clarified that inferior leaving early. Oh so tell me so what's that your face gets, you feel well what so I was so. I wrote this chapter and I talk about in. I talk about how the the catholic church to bring us back to your life apologize to Galileo, like three hundred and sixty years after they put gal. under house arrest for saying that the earth revolved around the sun and not vice versa and and

I wrote this chapter and I thought it was pretty good, but it didn't I'm an ending for it and I didn't understand how to end, and then I thought I was like a week before the book is gonna be printed. I suddenly realized all. I need write something else in the thing than I added was. Ok you sucked it up and you apologized now do you have to put on the other side of the equation, have to understand that other people are gonna screw up because they are also and being given human beings grew up and so they're going to come to you occasionally and they're. Getting apologise to you and what are they? Looking for when they apologize they face down that ugly feeling that shame and not flushed face what they're looking for is forgiveness, they're. Looking for you to say, it's ok like this caused me some pain. This upset me, but you are sincerely coming to me and again. I know you can relate to but you are sincerely coming to me in saying I'm sorry so what they do, what they want is forgiveness, and so now that's what we strive for light, and the key is what is a forgivable action like that,

question that none of us can really answer and it's a want. It's a visual decision and its on these things run up on an individual basis. Whatever the person did that their apologizing for some time, you'll find a forgivable. Sometimes you won't, but the point is that you should start from a place of. Can I find it and myself to fry this person for what they did. So I'm I'm very hopeful about this. I really believe that it's gonna be ok, it's just that Both sides have to. We have to get into a position where we get better. Apologizing when we screw up and we get better for giving people when they have screwed up and we can get to that point I think, will be in a good place. You ve talked about this in your book and you talk about luck. Yeah. I think there are a lot of people, especially in show business in

that's cause. I assume you that's the world. I now right is really the only world. I care to know very well that matters from Euro lipstick gods years. I don't want to. I hear their other people doing other things bill things and digging things I want about that. But through there is I bring this up. Is that I'm very conscious of the fact that there are people who really leave that they made their reality and that's why they're a pop star or committee, a tip top commuting that that they made all this happened or their their rich because they and all of that, and I think no, he I'm it. This gets very tricky for me, but there is no lack of shame. There is a lack of prospective theirs in people this hubris, that the reason I'm a billionaire were the reason I'm U r millionaire or that I

of the nicest house on the street is because I have what I did of what did you, which is not the case so many times yeah. I mean the example that I give him in the book is Michael Jordan, where legendary early the hardest working most competitive guy right. He, he worked hard of everybody, ass, he we wrote his teammates harder than anybody else. He practiced the most. He took the most free throws after gay You know whatever the idea of Sir Michael Jordan didn't deserve the everything he got seems crazy, and I understand that, but my Jordan was sick sex. He didn't get sick sex because he worked really

hard at being tall like he didn't put in the time and energy in the attic. Little I'm sorry he did. He went to Sweden and anyhow, they get strange had he had for vertebrae. Inserting a very controversial a surgery, nineteen, seventy seven icing should issue a traction, but also I too have had that surgery. You know it's not just his height is also his parents speaking supportive of what he did is as a child and being able to be to pay for equipment. It's his it's the data, his birth amino. The thing I seen a book is: Michael George, born fifty years earlier, no one's ever heard of him because that's the end I didn't really exist and he wouldn't have even been allowed into a non integrated and be a life. So it you it it is. It does require Are this extra level of, like you, say, Google Earth zooming out to kind of understand this stuff, but it's something I think about all the time in relation to my own life and its because my particular path, I I just always have focused on

he's weird sliding doors moments where I could have gone that way. I, though, I went away. I went because it seemed like now try this and then it turns out the greatest possible way. I could have MIKE, I I have decide to leave Saturday night live in after the two thousand for season, because then girlfriend now wife had moved out here. We were dating long distance and it was like one of us has to move so they go guess this is the urine leaving and so go, go to allay I'll, try to get a job, and I sent we got one job offer not one job offer was from Gregg Daniels was adapting the office and I know that I know that he picked me out of the giant pile of scripts. he liked. My writing, like that's the part that I did, but then this Excessive. The office was maybe one percent due to me in one piece and do the Mindy and one percent due to be J Novak and one percent, due to five percent you two Steve Corral and four percent due to whoever in eighty

One percent, due to Gregg Daniels, Great Daniels, made that into the thing it was and is my little my little floating dinghy happen to like flowed up next to his cruise ship at exact right moment and he yanked me on board. So it's not it's not self deprecating to say that your key person. I think the reason people sometimes don't wanna do it is cause they feel like, but I've worked so hard and I've done I've. made these choices, and I put it like I worked harder than I have ever worked when I was on the office. Can I just wanted to do a good job and it doesn't take away from what I did to say that also I was the benefit of this wildly a fortune was that's that led to the whole I think to try and you know, there's some kind. it seems here and one is keeping to ideas in your head seemingly contradictory. I is in your head at the same time is very wise.

I definition of intelligence and importantly in terms of empathy, which I think is a is like up we're out, we have empathy deficit in the world he now and if you can all those ideas in your mind, then urine Your next logical conclusion is there are people who, work really hard who are not lucky you in there people who are really lucky. You don't work hard at all and wit, and both of those things are painful in different ways like if you see someone who is rich and famous and successful powerful and doesn't do any work at all. It can be really irritating. If you see someone who you know who is incorrect, hard, working and diligent and talented and has just been super unlucky and has a tough life that can cause you as well, and it just helps you keep those things in perspective and remind you that, like You worked really hard and are really lucky. That is itself its own kind of luck that is that you should bowed down and be grateful for. You know like

did it helps. You understand, other people more too. I think to know that those two things are true, that right at you'd that some people have one and not the other. Some people are balsam people of neither I get on this thing about the internet, which is the internet as its brandy to all its changing society, more than the atom bomb did in nineteen. Forty five without question it is, it is shoving us and are our egos and its shoving it all up against it are there and that's why we're having this connection fit right now to use it no one's used, unwilling yours. I heard that on leave it to Beaver. Very you can't just sit here as my mother would say, it's all sixes and sevens, don't ask me Dont know. Rather one was, I think things are gone. Randy boo! No, yes, trust me. I grew up in a very strange house, but we're being shut against each other- and I think that I attributes

much of this to the internet because I dont think I think we will adapt. I dont believe adapted yet where this is that this is the rubber meeting the road and it hasn't saddled laid out in the way I think of it always is you know that thing of like if you're angry yours, you were when we were kids back, in the olden days the people would say if your greed. Someone write a letter, but then put it in your desk drawer overnight, yeah and if you still want to send it the next day than you stand it and almost always you you end up realizing like ok cool. down. I need some aside. The internet is is

you get angry! You write the letter you march over the person's housing, shoved innovation. I won't do it and with the latter, is a picture of your penis. That's that take different. I understand why this penises here. Why added that? Because I was arouse such my honour, my anger, Langer towards you over a year handy backing into my cell angers me and aroused me a night. I took this picture my penis in taped it to the letter I for three or mailbox, but no, I think that's that's exactly right. the other thing is. I think the Good NEWS that humanity is most of us. I think, when confronted with a person whose in pain, we we want to help I've seen this time and time again more people are good, then are not angry and when

when someone's in pain when someone's on happy when someone's uncomfortable. The urge is too to help to make them feel better and I don't care who you voted for, I don't care what, wearing a mega had or not that is most of us, most of us want to help another human being with the internets done, is obviously made everyone seem not real yeah so that that person's virtual they just said that my idea was stupid. So I just wrote back. I hope your mother dies right. Well I mean first, while that's an exchange that I apologize for, and I was talking to my brother, which really firstly my mom's fine, but I just lost it, and I forgot that we have the same mother they buy, but I do think it's making its the others yet it.

too easy now for there to be other labour ones anonymous. It's not even there's. The picture is like a cartoon dog and the name is a jumble of letters and numbers in your don't you're, not thinking of people as human beings. I mean I've often thought that this the best way to cure a lot of the like darkness and evil on the internet. It just make it a law that everyone has to use their real near sufficiently studies yes- and I say this by the way as a guy who's whose twitter handle is at, can tremendous, so I dont like I'm, I'm not I'm not you worry or can tremendous history. It's my dna and Arbour Michigan says here: nineteen fifty to God, you're old you know I'll say this: we have longer than I usually talk to anybody letter I guess, I'll long we ve been talking. I, when I was talking to President Obama on this very fine cast when he got to Fifty minutes he was mid satin saying what he thought the new direction of America should be, and I said that

all the time we have for you, a swift kick in the ass. Why didn't kick him physically cuz? There was secret service, but I did I cut it short and then I people about this amazing service called fracture. Do you think you can get a frame, but on glass eye, if you ve got a print and you wanted on glass make it fracture by the way? President Obama also talked about luck when he was on this very point, as you did in and I M it made me think. Why should be praised, that's what I did the same thing. I said my score should be president, because I had only ever seen your name written and not read. We ve met many times. I now have and trust me. I know how to say here that I say one more thing before you gimme a swift. Kick him. He asked and kicked me out of here is I'm a person, as you might have been able to tell from reading the book, who is torture, impressed

They tortured by my own failures in my own ethical and moral failures, and this isn't technically ethics. But yet the Mps in like two thousand and something I really food is literally twenty years ago, and your with your wife, miser and use ed came over to you. I'd only met you may be once or twice, but I saw you, I think maybe you're writing Sappho, just one for the first time- and I went over to congratulate you- and I said, hey congratulations said thank you so much. This is Eliza my wife and I set high and I sense He turned away from her and talked only to you for about eight minutes and She sat there stood next to you the whole time it is a thing that has tortured me for twenty years. On that I was so rude and listen to her and that I did, I basically was talking to like it

the guy I knew, but also like the famous person, and I'm sure this is a thing you ve talked to your wife about before, but I has honestly, like I think about it. Probably once a month for twenty years, I thought about how did a fine- and I haven't seen her since, and I would like to do so funny. She thinks of it constantly that no nobody it's one of those things. While that is you learn, I dont you mean no emu. We all have those. We have those moments where but fortunately my wife. By the way, yesterday we celebrated twenty years, Mary, congratulations as so. It's time to move on home, you got married on January, twelfth yeah.

did in Seattle, and great cereals was their rivals January. Twelve in Seattle is an odd date and time and could cause most people worry. Will it rain on our wedding and we knew we definitely will you and you wanted the coldest rain we wanted and cold dreary rain to make the rest of our marriage. The great my wife is a love is remains the loveliest person I know she's and and very understanding and would not hold that against you for a second. So I use stop work about that. I'm glad to hear you say that I would like to hear her say it, so I can actually below you're, not gonna. Get that I'm not here. She hates me she's living and also she is a massive fan of your work and, as I said, the good place was require viewing for the entire family and I also would be remiss if I didn't mention you brought a great Daniels in this interview, Greg

as my writing pardon when we started out- and I think if I had started out with Gregg and had him my side, I would not have jumped into this business. I was she's scared and it out that I chose just the nicest most brilliant guy to help me get launched in this business. So I'm so glad that you have consistently said, such nice things about Gregg, does he deserves it and he has done so much for so many people in their careers and unlike me, doesn't demand, pray, smelly ere, he is, is confused and scared by praise. I guess she's, a scared is exposed to me. While we ve been doing this interview, I've had nine portraits of myself and thirty five statues have been arrested at use. I was gonna, bring up the idea that you know my slice. My solution of the statues, things is, let's not make them out of granite. Shoes stone that disease

of over thirty year period in a statue has to be rebuilt. Stones should be made of like a very hard soap and now that literally the guy's starting to fall off the horse and the horse starts to collapse horse slowly. Jesus kneeling, yeah kind of tips. Over on this. I am in that. That's what I that's my solution. All statute is made of a very durable cell of this idea and now and then you don't have to have a public referenda misis like hey this two more rainstorms and we're done with this guy forever. I will say this make sure the world is a better place because you're in it you ve made so much great television and by the way, justice aside. No, when I watch your shows with my kids, occasionally have seen the mouthing along

with them because they watched them fifteen ta and that I find frightening, I think of all the books they could have been reading so fuck you anyway, my shores I got so I got an idea- was unsure whether here it's gonna, say fuck. You know I only and not as a wire me only guide, a really give it to Obama. To be perfect. The correct answer to every moral question is a tremendous book, get it you're going to love it. and if that's not enough, you can watch the good place the office. Parks and recreation. The list on and on and on. This was really fun, we gotta do it again, like sure any time. Thank you. So much. Ok, I'm not sure when this is going to go out as part of the podcast, but it's France had happened to me yesterday, which is

I was taking my dog for a walk. I've, two dogs, but dirty elements. Quite old, I said you wanna, take a walk. He says: go fuck yourself. Very and he says it imperfect English. I just now want to be seen with you problem. He had any other younger dog is always call to go with me, so we went on his hike up through will rise. There's a national park really nice, really nice walk and we stop and I bring water with me said: the dog can drink plenty. Water and the sky recognise mean he came up to me and said I how he Conan. Could you help me out? I'm about to propose to my girlfriend will end and I did know what would present Plan in he said: can you videotape it for me and a hand up me his phone? He handed me his phone, which was already said to video, but when you are the last person I would have to video, I because I feel, like you, wait

ass it up now carrying that turn. Your feelings Is there another way that can be taken? I don't really know anyway, just forget to press the red but know it going I've checked to make sure that it was going. He didn't trust me either clearly cause he started it and handed it to me. So he has very of me saying think I mean, then the forcing us hit him ass. I looked at him and I saw that his girlfriend was up the trail just a little bit chatting with someone else, and I said sure about this because I just thought you know guide a guy. You just want to see like and it was kind of joke about this new. Yes, I'm sure, then I realized. What do they say that yeah? Because waiver, you men, are we sure about this me as videographer? No, you know no stop what you guys get off that for a second. I know how to aim something. I can aim something it's already running right. That's, that's! That's not invest a big claim, but let's just shut up about the don't: don't foes just explode when you hold them casino, you're, so stupid

I do not think dead, but most down so I suppose but this new went yep Lynite Amelia was like self conscious cause, I'm thinking what do say that I'm in a method now shut up but then I realized, I guess, a rude quite like what if he had said she, I don't know No one's asked me that yeah I might do so but he was. He was the surest young man. I've ever seen an Marcel judgment, so he goes up and he starts forceful. He takes out, he has a backpack. He goes. Just girlfriend in his I hold on a second she's like what's going on here. out of his back back. He takes a new path. Strategies to his knee. Yes, men, he Niels, hence the new pad in the dirt and

what's happening, and then he takes out the box and then she put your hands up to her mouth and she's starts like I think, crying and you're still there. I am sooner now, listen I'm a distance away, and I didn't want to blow it. If I If I go, rushing up and I'm shooting she's gonna know something's happening, so I'm cool far away, not a pinch, Sumer anything they hold on, but then I start, I start and you But I dont know to do the pink, ok occurred and guess guess I dont you're right. I dont know to do the same. So what I do is I creep up. I'm moving closer and closer and closer disease proposing, and then there is it. Tree and the friend whose there's also shooting it and the girlfriends face is blocked, and so I think I should move around for a different angle. I'm actually putting some thought into this, so I come up coming on the tree and then I get this like nice side shot and no. You can see that she says yes in everything and then we're done and

they turned to me and they go. Thank you. I stop. It and then I realize the way I've shot it. It was me being really conscientious about deal it's getting close. Let's move around the tree its point of view of a murderer. Who is your hearing? How are we the whole getting soon of any horror? Movie is young man, any young woman, kissing and creep out is moving up, then moves around treated aside and pushes in on them and comes in for the kill. So there are also video is like by as Craven you know, and so yeah crazy, crazy. You don't know, I just happen to me: I'm not even joking Halloween, Wearin Self, Pasadena wear them literally the Michael Myers Houses, the house from Halloween and we ve, by and to peace

a guy proposes to his wife on the steps of the Michael Myers House, and I started valuing it and gave it to them, and I find it for them. Wait. What are you wearing away away? My aim guy, who is just going around following its super fast? It is higher next, any just finding. All of you and me, like I d, give fill me proposing to my girlfriend and it is there anything wait. A minute is in you see your filming them without even being ass. I was to do it you're a cop

you're not out or behind the tree place, gnats just did they asked you were not to shoot it no, but there was a very curious only both of you shut your mouth and listen to me. This is the angry ass. We ve all been alive. You shut up a chaperone whilst acknowledging that the right of this was that hallowing. So there was a crowd of people at this house. Everybody was filming like it was. It was a celebration. It was a man, it's you know, that's the MECCA, Halloween, your everybody goes there that likes the movie. How will we here anyway? I I just want to say too that couple their names are Paula in Hue and they just engaged at TAT, will Rogers State Park, and I was there videographer. I college eyes. When you play video flow. he's, do this when, when you, whenever you do look at that, video put

scary music to it. It's girls I lasting, because I didn't mean to do that really does I think you should definitely put skipper movie to it as I'm creeping up, and you guys and that by the way, that's a service I do provide. You can call me any time and hug me down

I will. I will provide that service. Conan o Brien needs a friend with Conan O Brien Sotto Voce, Essen and MAC Goarly, produced by me, mad goarly executive produced by Adam Saxon, Joanna Solitaire, off and Jeff Ross at team, cocoa and Colony Anderson and Coty Fisher. At your was theme song by the White Stripes incidental music, by Jimmy the Vienna taken away, Jimmy our supervising producers and layer and our associate talent, producers, Jennifer samples engineering by will beckon talent booking by Polish Avis, Gina, Battista and brick com. You can read and review the show, an apple podcast and you might find your review read on a future episode. Gotta question for Conan call the team cocoa Hotline at three two three four five one, two eight to one and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode, and if you have an already, please subscribed, Kono Brian needs a friend on have applied, casts sticker or wherever fine bog casts are down

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