This episode of crime junkie is brought to you by crime stoppers at Central Indiana

excuse me. Can I can I ask you a question real quick. Do you know what crime stoppers is? Is it that dog, the scruff Mcgruff can't sing? The song can't afford the song, but do you know what they do? It's another dog just goes round help solve murders for the no not quite well. Everyone loves the idea of a bad ask crime fighting dog. That's not what crime stoppers is crime. Stoppers is a nonprofit that allows a place for people to give anonymous tips about crimes if they are in fear for their life or for whatever reason, don't want the police to know who they are when they give the tip, but they have valuable information. You can do this through phone numbers online tips. They even have an app old P3 that you can download and submit your tip along with photos and videos. Crime stoppers is a nonprofit,

and receives no government funding. So look into yours see how you can get involved, see how you can help and if you want more information on crime, stoppers of Central Indiana go to crying tips, Org! Merry Christmas junkies, you know most of the podcast that I subscribe to and listen to all go on hiatus during the holidays, and it's something that drives me insane, because there isn't a time in my life when I need podcast more than eighty, when I'm traveling and be when I have to spend a ton of time with extended family. And then I just need, like a couple of minutes to myself, to turn off my brain and listen to a story about murder. So with that, I figure, I would give you your Christmas fix by giving you the second part of the Scott Peterson episode. If you didn't, listen to the first part, make sure you go back and download episode, two.

Peterson Part One and where we left of is it is March of two thousand and three and the case had gone. Pretty cold investigators really believe Scott. Did it they're not looking into any other suspects, but nothing is happening to further the case and they're kind of justice stuck on April 13th and 14th. That's when the bodies of Connor Anne Lacey were found, an Connor was found first on the 13th and then Lacey was found on the 14th and they were found just about a mile apart, an the first body was alerted to police, because someone was walking their dogs an prior to this. You know they had actually searched the Berkeley, Marina. Where Scott said he was, I mean they had done. Multiple searches search, the water didn't come up with anything they found

an anchor alone anchor, but they actually want washed up in the San Francisco Bay and the police say that when they initially wash that they thought, there's no way that that this is our bodies. The San Francisco Bay is two huge bodies washed up all the time, we're just not that lucky but sure enough. They find out that it easily see it is Conor and the bodies are obviously and that they have been in the water. For some time. We don't know exactly how long, but Laci was just a torso, her arms, her legs and her head were missing and just her torso washed up and then for Connor, and it looks like he had been almost disembowel and he had some electrical

tape on his ear and this fishing wire or some kind of wire that looks like a noose around his neck. So when we talk about the trial, they'll be a lot of speculation about what happened to the body and whether it was the tide or not, but they were found an extremely unusual conditions. After the bodies found, obviously takes a couple of days to identify them and I think another at one of the big infamous points in the trial is on April. Eighteenth, it's good Friday, and this is when Scott is air, quotes running for the border and trying to skate what happens is pull

these arrests guy in San Diego and in his car. They find so so many things and they find camping gear for cell phones. His brother's id between fourteen and fifteen thousand dollars in cash hiking boots a shovel a dozen and a picture of him and Lacy and his hair is dyed blonde and all that we hear again in the media is he's fleeing, he's on the run and he was trying to reach now that their bodies are found and identified he's trying to get away. Now we go back again, there's always the family side of the story and what they say happens is wildly different, so they say that that day, I'm good,

Friday, Scott was going to play golf with his family. They say that you know it had been just crazy couple of months. They were just like starving for some normalcy, and so he wanted to get away. He had been actually living in San Diego for awhile 'cause. He had family that live down there, so it's not like he drove from Modesto to San Diego. That day he had been living in San Diego and he was on his way to the golf course He saw some unmarked cars behind him and he thought it was the media so right he just kind of starts driving around. He actually called his family. He doesn't want to bring the media to the golf course because you're getting pictures of him golfing that would just be a nightmare. So what he doesn't know the time which I think in the being good for him as police have his phone tapped and he actually called his family to tell him that he's not going to make it a lot. Thank

for others, I don't think I should come play golf. I don't wanna fix your means of threads yeah. I think I might tell Scott that just stuck here. He ends up driving and driving and driving, and there are still following him there being pretty aggressive. He fine He does end up going to the golf course he doesn't know where else to go and he pulls over and that's when they put on their lights, and he realizes that. It's been the cops, the whole time and not media, and they end up arresting him and find all the stuff in his car. But what the family will point out as well is okay. Yes, he was blind. However, he had been gone for a while. He had met with cops while he was blind and had to go t. So it's not like he was disguising himself from the cops he was just trying to get through like day to day life going to the gas station and go to the grocery store without people bombarding him. So

really. He didn't change his appearance for that which again I never knew. No me neither no idea he met with the cops like that and and then they they go to extradite, explain away all the stuff in the car, and they say that you know the fifteen thousand dollars in cash was actually and his mother had borrowed some money out of his account and the day before they have all the transactions to prove this, but the day before she pulled money out to pay him back and he hadn't gotten a chance to put it in the bank. Yet you know again. I don't know what to believe anymore. It's like I wouldn't be driving around fifteen thousand dollars cash, but I put on the hand it's good Friday and thanks may not be open all day. Let's get my settings it better. They said he had his brothers id because he was going to the golf course and he can get a discount with his brothers id rather than using his id and then the hiking boots.

Like that, he had bought like a long time ago, an left in his car, and they also point out that he's driving a red Mercedes and they say like who then they're like pretty inconspicuous truck for a red Mercedes too, are going to go on the run right so again like what I keep coming back to you with this case is: oh, my god. He either like. Did it and he's a genius who can like, kill somebody and leave zero evidence or, like he is an idiot with just like the worst luck possible because I mean I can. I can get a man about to getting pulled over with all that stuff and just being like every single one of the house like this, like a benign explanation, but all together looks really really shady yeah like I got pulled over for speeding ones and there was a bottle of maple syrup in my front seat.

And I was like I'm sorry officer- this- isn't liquor. It's maple are up time so now but there's an arrest, there's actually a pending trial. So the defense gets all thirty thousand pages of documents and they can actually 'cause. Prior to this, like the family and the defense have no right to any of the information in the investigation, they have no idea what the police do and do not have. So this is the first time they really get their hands on like ok. What do they have against Scott that they think they have such a firm case an as they're going through all these documents? There isn't a single piece, a physical evidence that suggests Scott had anything to do with the disappearance or that he had anything to do with a body dump or body removal,

and they went so far back in history to like middle school. There wasn't a single incidents of violence. They decide to move the trial instead of having it in Modesto. They said you know it's. Everyone in Modesto is too tainted. We have to move that, so they move it to Redwood California, which is about fifty miles away Modesto is tainted by the trial. Everyone in the country was exposed to this case and had very strong opinions about because me, and you and Indiana, had opinions right in my mind. Moving at fifty miles I mean we were two thousand miles away. It does nothing right right. I don't know what the point was in. Actually they moving it to read what they actually moved it closer to San Francisco, which was the media hub in the area, so I mean in my mind I feel like they're, only making it worse, yeah

initially, when they're doing jury selection, fifty percent of the jury pool gets automatically dismissed because they say no yeah he's for sure guilty. Like the end they dismissed those. Paul, also they just Is anyone who says that they are against the death penalty? And this is a death penalty case? However, what the judge was supposed to do? Is he supposed to ask people? Ok, I know you're against the death penalty, but you know that's the law here and if we find that he's guilty, do you think that you could apply the law to this case, but he didn't do that at all. He just said: ok, you're against the death penalty, you're out, which really left a very specific

type of juror left in this pool. Yeah like an angry victim, vindictive one right and and then we even had people like from the jury. So in this documentary I watched people who were on the jury admitted that, like as soon as they found out what trial they were on, even if they weren't familiar with it. They went home and just Google and of course again, all we're getting. Is the media their version of what happened, and that's what these prospective jurors, who are now on the jury, are getting all of this information before even day, one of walking into the courtroom and once they're in the courtroom. The how to make the decision not to sequester the jury so which is insane insane a trial. This big, like the OJ trial, was about the same size and scope and the whole. The jury is sequestered there for eight to ten months and here they were allowed to go home, they were allowed to talk to their families and it's it's against the law for jurors to

research, the case on their own or two like even listen to the news about it, but this case was eh everywhere. I don't know how they were able to get away from it. You couldn't go grocery without hearing about it, honestly, so now that they have a jury, Secu Shin finally lays out its case and nobody knew what they were going to say. Because again I mean there's really nothing so everyone's really interested to see what their story was and the prosecution says that Laci was killed on the twenty third he cleans up moves her body in the morning to his truck and that he takes it to the marina and dumps and their whole motive is that basically, he did not want to be a father did not want to be married anymore. It was all too much he wanted to live the life of a young single guy and he just thought it would be easier to murder her than to get divorced. The

this gets up in their opening arguments and basically says, you know what we all know. They say you aren't going to, like my clients, like he's, done some stupid shit and he's not necessarily a nice guy or a nice husband or a faithful husband, but we're going to prove to you that he is an innocent husband of murder and they had this great. Like gotcha moment right in their opening trial, so the prosecution when they were laying out there there there scene of the crime or their way went down. You're going to all of his lies and like he did you like about this, and one of the lies that they point out is you know he has a whole fabricated story about he was spending the morning with Lacey. Really he didn't spend the morning. With he says they're watching Martha Stewart and that they were she making lemon meringue cookies, and but she wasn't so

obviously lying about that blah blah blah and in the defense is opening statement. They actually bust out the episode of Martha Stewart. She was on good morning, America, I think that day and they play the. Clip of her on good morning, America and sure enough. She's talking lemon meringue cookies, so even as mazing, it is it's like kind of a Perry Mason moment like whoever the prosecution was, didn't, even bother to watch the clip they're. Just I'm kind of like the media. There just saying things that they want to be true and they actually got caught red handed. Another huge moment for the defense in this trial is when they call when the prosecution calls their computer witness. So every time the prosecutions bring somebody if it's kind of like a one, two punch like yeah, they say some good,

for the prosecution. But then the defense gets up and kind of get center, either a few. What they say contradict themselves, but the jury said that every time a prosecution witness came up basically, when they got off the stand, they they either felt like the defense was ahead or the prosecution didn't get ahead. So the defense is doing super well prosecution calls at the computer witness to talk about the computer activity on Scotts Work Computer, where he was in his warehouse. That morning, when I said he was emailing his boss and putting together this like tool thing, and they don't ask any further questions when the Defense zap. They say you know: was there any computer activity in the home that morning and sure enough. It wasn't in the skies report. It wasn't anywhere else, but he's on the stand and has to testify truthfully. He says that that morning,

eight hundred and forty in the morning lazy or someone was looking at like a red scar from gap or something like that and a sunflower on Brelo's and this is basically blows the prosecution's theory out of the water, because at this point lease is supposed to be dead right and now this someone is on the computer, at her home looking up stuff and everyone said Lacey A was obsessed with sunflowers and and whatever so now she's. The sudden alive- and you know, there's some back and forth later. So at this point the prosecution doesn't know where or how all they have is when, but by the time this guy gets off the stand, they don't have how she was murdered, they don't have where she was murdered when she was murdered and they they basically have a loose. Why but they're. They have no case at this point, but they keep going and then they try and say. Well, you know

I was just trying to cover his tracks, and so he got on and looked at on that stuff on the computer. That Laci would look up. Well, if that's the case, why wouldn't Scott be using that in his defense, this didn't come out until the middle of trial? The police have been saying she was dead on the twenty third for like a year at this point, why wouldn't Scott? If he did, that intentionally be like hey look at computer, I saw her on the computer. She was on the computer it just doesn't make sense, and if that was the case and it even if Laci was so basically the prosecution change, their whole theory and they say okay, we can consider at least on the computer, then about an hour to kill her clean up and then load up her body

leave so mid trial, which is they completely changed. The whole theory of the case, which I think is damn near unheard of yeah. That's not a good move right and the prosecution also says that he they found some empty like concrete powder bags in his workshop And he admits that he made one anchor for his boat and they say well, you know there should be like four more anchors and that's the perfect amount is limbs were missing and you know whatever you next an extra head. Who knows and Scott's like now. I I can I dumped out the rest of that concrete in my driveway and again. This is something that the media took off with especially Nancy Grace. She was all over this concrete and there's this kind of great outside of the trial. Gotcha moment Where on video they take Nancy Grace to the house to show her where Scott says he poured out the concrete 'cause she's just going on and on and on in the news about how that's crazy and why

anyone ever do that and they show her where it is in the ground and you can see it and she just goes and then never talks about it ever again. Man. I know so at this point in the trial, the Defense is crushing it and all the jurors even say like they had nothing to process? I nothing, and we were all wondering kind of why we were there. But then the trial totally changes with the introduction of the tapes when the defense gets a hold of these they first get. The transcripts of the tapes between Scott and Amber, and they realize like as a reading the transcripts like yeah. This is like bad, but it's not super bad, like I think we can. We can work around. It says he's a bad husband, but this isn't like send a man to death row worthy, but they say that when they hear the tapes, it's just a totally different story. It shows that Scott has Z.

Problem lying and I mean in the midst- there's not even like sadness in his voice in the midst of everything, that's going on he's putting on this whole charade about being in Europe and being in love with her you, you would have no idea that something was going wrong in his life, much less that his wife and his child had been abducted and then murdered. So once these tapes are introduced in court, even the jurors say it's just kind of over and the defense really tries to get them to consider anything else. They actually set up this test where they take a hundred and fifty pounds like body shape to wait in the same size boat that Scott had and tried to show that it would be impossible to put something that heavy over the side of the boat without capsizing or flipping the boat, and they tested it four times every single time. They couldn't do it without flipping the bow and the guy that

actually did the test almost drowned twice, but the court wouldn't allow any of that information, and they said it was just too inflammatory, which is, I think, a little bit crazy. Yeah inflammatory is definitely a little bit of a stretch right. The other thing the prosecution had and that really the data with the jury? Is they said that they got dogs that tracks lease he sent to the marina? The dogs have come out months after Laci went missing and what they find. The defense finance is that the dogs had actually failed their certification test for being tracking dogs and twice before they had gone out and had it hit, only see sent, but that was

or entered into evidence. They basically just said that they went out and saw or smelled her immediately. There was also cross contamination, so some of the stuff that they gave the dogs of Laceys also could have had Scott sent on it. An Of course, Scott was at the marina, so I don't know again what order this came in if the first two times they were working off the same cent piece or maybe the but I'm the one they were working off of had both rather than just laceys either way, I think it was something that, shouldn't have been entered in because it's it's, you can't have a dog that feels their certification then doesn't hit twice.

I mean if you're not gonna, allow the boat thing, and I don't know how this got in right. Another thing I was really contested during trial was the time of death for Conor, because Laci was pregnant at the time they wanted to show again their prosecution toll theories, either she's killed on the twenty third, the twenty fourth either way Conor would have to be dead in the womb at that point, and so the prosecution has an expert come up that says: Connors dead on the twenty. Fourth, the defense has a witness, come up that contract that says Conor dead on the twenty ninth, so this shows that he could have actually lived in the womb five days long. Ngor and five days later, Scott with the media's got a family he's not doing anything. There's no he's even got Lee C, tucked away somewhere right, so they kind of go back and forth. The defense, witness kind of breaks down on trial, like he's clearly never been cross, examines or at least not cross, examine

properly and basically is a little bit of a meltdown and just ask people to like give him a break, and at that point everyone on the jury, just kind of stops. Listening to him, this episode of crime junkie is made possible by article article is an online furniture company that keeps their prices low by cutting out the middleman. But don't you dare mistake? Low prices for cheap quality? I got some outdoor lounge chairs from article this past summer and they are so high quality and comfortable. I was getting compliments on them. All summer long articles team of designers focuses on beautifully crafted pieces, quality of material, an excellent construction, and all of it is up to thirty percent off traditional retail prices. Plus you get there fast flat rate shipping across the US and Canada, starting at just forty nine dollars with free basic shipping on orders,

over nine hundred and ninety nine dollars on top of that flat rate shipping, an up to thirty percent off retail prices. Article is also offering our listeners fifty dollars off first purchase of one hundred dollars or more to clean. This visit article dot, com, slash crime, junkie and the discount code will be automatically applied at checkout, that article dot com, slash crime junkie to get fifty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more all right now, back to the show. Also in court never use an this was a choice of the defense attorney. He never Anyone up who said they saw Laci walking that day again they saw her walking the same time that Scotts on his computer. So this would be huge

I mean we have proof that Scott is not at home and then sightings of lazy at the same time walking around the neighborhood, but the lawyers said it was just a judgment call. He said too many people stories I mean he had. I think, like two thousand one hundred and twenty four witnesses, While he said there were too many that were like contradictory, I mean when you I wanna testimonies. The time isn't always you know it's one of the most like unreal able I mean, but I think we have twenty one to twenty four you've got something there yeah. Definitely he just felt like it wouldn't hold up in court, so he decided to not use it at all. Jurors later said, they would have loved to like at least here a couple of people say like hey yeah. I think I saw her and the way they basically rap up the trial is the defense kind of goes flat, and they just say you know we showed a lot of evidence, he didn't do it, they don't have any physical evidence and the prosecution came out with a one, two punch

and they relied on what their whole case is based on on this affair, and they have this kind of dramatic moment at the end, where side by side they put up a picture of Laci was eight months pregnant alone at a Christmas party that was taken the same time as Scott is cuddling with Amber. At this other Christmas Party, an really hammering 'cause. They don't have anything else. They just hammer in motive and sure enough. The jury comes back with a guilty verdict and sentences and stuff so in two thousand and twelve Scott has a new team of attorneys and they've actually filed an appeal and really there's three things that they're basing the appeal on one is. They said that the jury selection defective that the judge should not have allowed people who just fully wholeheartedly believed in the death penalty. There was also a lot of jury turn

over during the trial of people who got kicked off people who felt threatened and asked to get kicked off and people all who were talking about the case outside of the trial which they should have been, but then didn't get kicked off. So it was very tumultuous. Yeah lots of lots of jury misconduct, possibly so they're saying that that was one at one reason. They said that the evidence was faulty, that the re only real evidence fusion has was that those hits on the dogs made, but that that should never have been allowed in, because it wasn't really a hundred percent accurate one hundred percent of the time, and they were saying that they should have been able to present the case of and they allowed the jury to see the boat on land and they actually let them get in it, and the jurors were like going back and forth and like you could see that they were kind of catching on and seeing if they could, something out of the boat but they're on land. So it really do anything right and the process,

mission or the judge. Wouldn't let them go out on water because he said it was too dangerous, which kind of like I feel if you thought they're going to flip the boat, maybe prove the defense yeah that that acting kind of speaks- louder than words for me right. So as they're going through this pl. They get to do a full investigation of the case and one thing that they're real bringing up that was never brought up. The first time is Modesto. Isn't this tiny small, quaint town, the media portrayed it to be? This? You know idyllic American California town, but that's just Is it really played well into their story? And the motto for Modesto is water, wealth, contentment, health, but I guess everyone who lives in Modesto, they always say: murder, meth and auto theft like that's their, so there I mean a ton of like seedy underbelly. I mean they have a meth problem. There constant robberies, and you can't even say that, like that was out.

Side of where Scott and Laci lived in Modesto, because again there was a robbery across the street right across the street. Yeah they're, not they're, not too far removed for that, and then they also find this other huge. I think story that totaly gets like my wheels. Turning and this is the thing makes me question everything the most between one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine and two thousand and two seven pregnant women in the Modesto area. Go missing! Well, that's a lot! That's a lot! There's three in Modesto and For within an eighty mile, radius of Modesto in three years. Like I don't know the rate of pregnant women going missing in Indianapolis, but I'm pretty sure it's not this yeah. That seems unusual Lee yeah

one woman in Evelyn Hernandez, who was eight months, pregnant and disappeared within six months of Lacey. But of course, like the whole lace thing is going on, so it didn't really get attention and they. There was a story of a woman in a documentary that I watched, who actually could have been lazy, so she was eight months pregnant on Christmas Eve of two thousand and two and she said she was actually working at the little that she owned and there were these men who were like stalking her outside of her shop, and she really felt by then they were following her, and so she ended up like calling her family and just staying inside and calling the police when she called the police. They went away, and that was earlier in the day like shortly before at goes missing and this We end up having her baby the same day that Connor was due and

she said she really feels like those men were after her to kidnap her and she she's herbal. Even you know when you're in this situation always feels probably scarier, but it's her belief that if those men would have taken her, she would have been lazy and Lacey would have been. Ok, wow, that's crazy! That's an insane story. It is. Finally, the defense is really pushing that Connor was handled outside of the womb. He had been almost disemboweled and they said that his injuries weren't consistent with like the tide action. That's what the prosecution tried to say is: oh that's just what happens when you're in water that long, but they, the defense, doesn't think so and they're still working on getting experts and he had that electrical tape on his ear and I news around his neck and these None of that, but you wouldn't get tape on your ear from being in the water like right on, not even possible, so they don't. I mean the problem is I think what people really want? Is they want

I one hundred percent story. Okay like well what are happening to these other pregnant women. We don't know what do they want their babies. Do they like has any of them got caught. No, so there's no there's kind of alternate narrative. But I don't feel like there are enough answers or, and solid answers to revoke this, like provocative story that the media and the prosecution have told about Scott Peterson. So I don't know- I believe, if I'm being honest so when I came into the story like everyone else, like I've heard this, he did it the time I went through all of this it was so much information that I thought, oh, my god, like there's, there's no way, there's no way. He did it the second time I go through it. I think. Okay, all of this is is soup it's super interesting, but again my god he's got to be the most unlucky man in America. Two. All this happened to him and he's going be

Thomas Man in America and like where Is it this guy is just such a crappy husband, Anna, so stupid, and this happens to his wife? so now. I don't know what to think. I think like where I land is based evidence, one hundred percent he should not have been convicted. He should not have been sentenced to death. I have no idea what happened to Laci yeah, I mean at the beginning of of these episodes. I said that I was a hundred percent sure that Scott did it You definitely gave me a lot of things to think about and a lot of things to reconsider, I'm with you. If he didn't do it, he is the unluckiest guy on the planet, but yeah. I'm not sure I follow either everyone I talk to seems super right on this, I mean they're, either really passionately believe he's guilty

or they really passionately? Don't people don't usually fall in the middle? I don't know we're going to be seeing more of that, but I would really love to hear what the listeners think after hearing all this information, so I you guys could engage with us on social media. I'm super super interested to hear your thoughts. If you want to tweet at us, it's at crime, junkie pod, if you want to follow on Instagram, it's back crime, junkie, podcast, and if you have any question Your feedback on the case feel free to send us an email. Our email addresses crime, junkie, podcast at g dot, com

crime, junkie is production and editing comes from a wine and crime junkie is an audio truck production. So what do you think Chuck do you approve.