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Excitement is always an order, no matter what game you play so get your ticket defined today with appear lottery, scratch off and oh yeah, one more thing, keep on scratch and must be eighteen or older. Please play responsibly benefits older Pennsylvania, every day you listening to Carmody Central welcome back to the daily show. My guess tonight is producer and activist Monica Lewinsky, she's gonna talk about her brain. You documentary that unpacked, our culture of public, shaming, I can see, the physical toll, my weight fluctuating, a hundred and five towns and the picture the next few months was me going counselling me trying to figure out how to walk on american universities. Campus well,

constantly being triggered every single day than their watercolor whisky or cancel the Danish. Thank you. Travel nice to be hair. It's a pleasure to have you here before we get us eventually. I did want this. Does everybody call you Monica Lewinsky, always etc? oh well, I guess in a professional setting in an interview. Maybe people either do that or I've also felt, people very familial, learn Lee welcoming Monica, oh ok got it. There's been a dream, so in that sense, being very familiar gotta call for a long time. Ruddy also get. I think the familiar thing. People stop mean asked me for directions a lot. So I think it's that wait like in the street yet just ran, and I think it happens to me so often that it must be, Is there something in their brain? That is? Oh, this person is familiar to me. Barbarians but because they must be eyes or you could have given directions. I think I've got giving. I would hope you ve gotten

If you look out for their actions, I would just get really good or I would get really good at seeming. Like I'm good of giving their actions so that people leave me with a sense of confidence and then if they get lost, that's that's not. Problems started that crews directly I'd yeah, that's it Let's talk about the reason you on the show today October is bullying prevention months right and one of the biggest places that bullying has moved to is online. You know just yesterday, Michaud I was talking to Tristan Harris who I think you know- and he was here talking about lecture what social media giants have been doing to inflame our ability to bully each other to hate each other to become polarized. You you're, looking at the subject from a completely different perspective, and yet.

true the to overlap bearing afresh. The first question I have for you is online bullying bulling as a whole. How do you even begin to tackle that? Is that even attack level thing? Well, I I hope it is. I mean I think that with any social problem, I think we cannot give up on the idea that we can have social change and that people can change their behaviour, whether it comes from understanding whether it comes from empathy for other people or changing the structure. Let's say social media law, all sorts of things, so I I I think we can make a dent and, as you are saying Tristan, whose in our film right yeah who is actually in the film, but I think where there is a lot of overlap. Is that your singing and with Frances, France's Huggin, who the whistle blower right here right,

facebook? I think that she's talking about what's happening online already, but you can see the consequences of that the real human consequences in our film. So that's where there really is. This overlap, two of of what we're talking about with the social the companies and the landscape and and they human consequences. You ve been a part of telling the story. Fifteen minutes of shame and you doctor, reform, that's gonna, be primarily on HBO Max tomorrow and it delves into a subject that you yourself for you. You know you you're, for you refer to yourself as patients. Zero, and you say I am the patient zero over this whole thing, and and really you were because your story blew up right when the internet was really becoming a thing. Information was flying across the globe. So my first question to you is as a human in this. Why would you want to go back into that? What why would you want to delve back into a story that I can only assume was one of the worst periods of your life

I think I had my life, unfolded differently and had there been a different path that allowed me to get there on a more normal developmental path or to get a job and move forward in life. I'm not a hundred percent sure while in an anti bowling advocate at that at the moment, by really what happened for me was after graduate school, I realise that I couldn't run away from what happened. I had to integrate it and they had to do a lot of work around that and in the process of that, in that time span it just became clear that What happened to me- and I made a mistake, but what happened to me was now opening to many other people, especially young people, right- and I want to kick in my TED talk, so each separate and sometimes don't talk about this area, but so we think that it is a thing for me,

it's not easy? This is an easy for me to do, but it's important, I think it's important work and when I hear from people that it's been meaningful, whether it's a teacher who has helped the student or something else- and that's I think, that's me- and everybody whose working in this space it is, of course, is worthwhile. While I have you air. This is something exciting folks across Pennsylvania. Our scratching. The way to all kinds of and thanks to pay a lottery scratch off with new games every month, big tall prizes in even second chance drawings, excitement is always an order, no matter what game you play so get your ticket defined today with appear lottery, scratch off and oh yeah, one more thing, keep on scratch and must be eighty or older. Please play responsibly benefits older pennsylvanians every day. What what you know what's really interesting about this subject for me,

the concept of being shamed online is is one that I feel is constantly going to evolve in. That's what I love about this from that that you ve helped create. Is take us through the story and the journey of shaming. You know you take a short time before internet before newspapers. Even this like here, we are within a time feather people within of stone people in a public square. There's always as I deal of shaming the person with that punishment, but but but you know, as the internet has grown, the thing I've often sets a people is there was a worldwide would be celebrity or people who in some states as position who will be shamed but because social media. It is only an inevitable that everybody will achieve something. Of celebrity that will then enable them to be shamed on the same level, and I feel like that's what you started talking about in these stories. Is it's gone from being president's and actors to now just being

A high school girl too, not just being a man who works in the factory, to not just being somebody who took a picture with their family and the picture was taken the wrong way. That seems like a change in how societies looking at who to bully and who to shame, absolutely you're a hundred percent right. I think that one of the factors and we do take people through this in the film- is around the idea of how shame had been used since the beginning of time as a social tool, and when the printing press was invented in it all of a sudden leapfrogged into being something that could now be commodity right and then, once the tabloid culture blood into every area of our culture in a leading up to Princess Diana S, death row, which you know was a function of paparazzi, live in that world have laid world right, that's where their income comes from, and so there was

moment, and that was only five months before ninety ninety eight. So we we didn't make a cultural shift and the internet being there. When ninety eight happened it then it then grew from there, but I think what, seemed now to is that this is very much about power right. It's about, like are other people in power who should face consequences right, absolutely but are there people who are not in positions of power who are facing the same consequence and its ruining their lives in a way that is very different? Yes to that, too, you know I'm not sure I think you know, so it's not only people in power, but is also the power to that we have as as citizens as loyal right determines. How are you really? You know what I think you know. I don't know how

feel about cancer. Culture in kind of the term cancel culture, but I think it's for me. It's just become a little too broad. Yet I think when I look at it is I go. I think everyone is cancelled culture and it did, it seems like it, embodies everything I go well, sometimes its consequences, sometimes its criticism and I think it has become a broad terms. A dozen enables enable us to have better conversations about which aspects of its I agree. We may want to monitor that's what I loved in the film. You specifically don't just go guys, let's not use, the internet and, let's not make this more poker. People knew you. You talk about all the upsides. I think it really is a beauty in a beast to the end and we see it with a look at the social change. That is happened. We call it shaming for change by around hashtags with me, war blocking life's matters and that that is that kind of power they can come from the social tool is shame, is a social

cool, is invaluable and that's giving a power to people who haven't had a voice for a long voyage to hold others accountable. But then you do have instances. You know we have all shades of gray in the film and including the clip that you showed right is somebody who never made a mistake. In fact the opposite. She did everything that you are supposed to do and then some and face this. Just horrific, horrific white supremacist Mom, are you know so? But but you have you, have you glimpsed even an idea of what we could do about this because it feels like, as as as as the documentary shows it feels like? This is an unfortunate byproduct of being a human being. You know it's only lasted those rights and an end, and the internet has amplified that and so, and so when when you look at these things. Is there? Is there even like a glimmer of hope you gonna go? This is something that we could do. I I mean I don't know

becoming pollyanna. I do believe there's a glimmer of hope. I have a belief in the good of people that people can be good, obviously they're kind of shit in my lips, where oh yeah shithead, but you know in the world but I think that I think we're we're going and we were where we're moving to, and what, with that, what is possible is that we- and we try to do this in the dock in the darkest, but should be a conversation starter around these topics. There is another, their social media companies who you know if you think about an architect and an engineer right there,

job is to make sure no matter what no matter, how beautiful the building is or functional. If people are not safe in that building, it's it's useless, and so they have to work better and harder and faster at making sure people are safe, but there is also the human behavior component of it. There's the chemical that doping mean that you know and an you think about sweeping those or to places where we need to see change. I think we need to see a shifting in section two thirty about what this social media companies are to be classified as a start up rose in her own by some of the wealthy as men in the world. I think that that's what we need to find a change sponsorship for the daily show of travel, nowise brought you buy Samsung, while all upset entertainment movies shows gaming Series limited series streaming. Rentals, we can't get enough

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bring home an unreasonably good entertainment experience, seal latest cvs adsense under coms, less: U S less tvs that samsung dot com, slash! You ass, slash tv ass, you know one thing: the document for made me realize- and I know that I've been guilty of this as well. I've been on both I've been publicly shamed Reno. You had my cancelling my canceling moments in that, but I know that I have I've also been part of mobs and what's interesting is when you're in the mob, though there's a disconnect between you and the house, and so you don't even realise that the size of the pebble that you're you're, throwing because it gets combined with IRAN so you know I remember back in the days like oh Tiger woods and then like I've, got a joke about Tiger woods, I'll tweet this, because it's funny it's just me it's by myself and then it gets amplified. As you say, and you don't realize that you have become part of a thing where, if you stepped back, if you show somebody's life and if you show the mob you're part of

you may be able to go all war. I wasn't trying to do that to somebody I thought it was harmless. I thought it was meaningless, but it went to one human being, and so is that is that, like, as somebody who's experienced it? Is that why it was important for you to show the people behind the stories to understand the story holistically absolutely not only. I think that the really what felt important was for people to come to understand what happens in these shaming and what does it feel like to be on the receiving end of that tidal wave of negativity? And it's not even it's. It's exacerbated from just shame but also can be violent right in I was so I mean an end that violence doesn't just live, particularly for women. It doesn't always just live online, so I I think too, that there was. You know we don't we don't get too, these people of who they were the moment before. Whatever it is, happened, happened right,

and so I think in the same way- and I understand that I was- I Didn'T- have much of a history too- what happened to me now? I might. This was my first job at a college, so there you know wasn't much there, but that sense of and that that is one the really emotionally devastating experiences around having a shaming like that. Is that feeling the irony of being so scene and not being seen at all firmly. You truly are yeah I'd like to know exactly what you talk, and so I think that there is, and we haven't, you spend all your time to trying to claw back the you that people don't,

See you aren't you because they define you know everyone goes. This is who you are you like? No, no, I I grew up like this and I have parents, and I have family and friends, and I make good decisions, and I do not mean yes and and in that way, you're narrative runs away from you at your identity is stolen and I think you're so right about the mob mentality. You know one of the things I don't know. Maybe it's written somewhere, but I'm sort of fascinated by this idea of you know did people in stoning times. Did people pick up more than one stone? or was it they threw one stone and they had the moment of seeing the person's reaction. You know an energetic feeling of of someone in a what it felt like to be hidden. I that stone- I dont know you know, but today, with the inner they caught the online DIS inhibition effect. So this sense of

what happens on line. Is that because you're you're dealing with the screen and not another person? Yes, you take on a different identity that a lot of these behaviors in the ways that we see empathy and feel empathy are just. Are you you're unable to see that your unable feel it online in many ways an ordinary voters objectify you oughta physics, me sometimes is I play video games when I play video games there. things that are doing a video game. I've never do in real life, but it's in the video women. It happens today a video game characters. So, if grand theft auto yeah, I'm gonna run someone over and I think it's funny what's happened with social media is that has also become a video game of people's emotions, but there is someone on the other side, yet any I didn't, I think, sometimes the problem with those things is you become unnecessary ties to that whole. You know that idea of that there is a person will need an innate becomes like if you think about you might be too young, but second life. That was ok. Ok,

yeah. You know second life and sort of this fascinating very to me, a very rich place of understanding human behavior online rights of that first place where it was. Oh, you know in the same way, Photoshop like Photoshop gives you this ability say whoever I am right now. How I look is not good enough like this. Why wished to be exactly, and so I think that the minute we start divorcing ourselves from that self reality? It not only affects us emotionally, but it also impacts how we treat and others as well so be journey. You ve been on the night. When are we going to wrap this up? Its mean everyone's? Just watch you know the documentary, no, because I think it's I worked really hard on it. Nobody, but you know you don't. I think it is. I think, if we're not careful as people, we stop seeing each other as people and then we live in a world where you know we take on

avatar us humans. We go after the other humans, we don't really happening than we were walking around with promises and ptsd and anxieties, but but that's not who we actually. Arts like it, is like a fake polarization than that that happens and and shall be before I let you go on. I love to know, as somebody who experienced arguably the greatest level of public, shaming that human beings have seen I mean across continents, Yo Yo Yo, your name was was was uttered I'd, love to know how you figured out a way to go. Like you know what you are. I am Monica Lewinsky, yet everyone is maybe shitty jokes about me. Yes, the whole country at some point was was saying this, but you know what I am now take control of mice, I'm gonna reclaim my narrative. How did you do that? It was definitely not a straight line too. That is not a linear process at all. So I think that it happened for me it happened in stages, because also my my ability to even

see and understand what had happened to me and the consequences of some of those things didn't become apparent for years for a decade, wasn't until I got out of graduate school. I had a masters and social psychology from in school of economics and I couldn't get hired while you know, and so then I started to realize, oh, that this is it. This is a lot more damage to me too. What had happened and I had realized at that point and I didn't set out to reclaim my narrative. I set out to heal and healing for me was I mean I would try. anything. I did a lot of consciousness and energy work, but also at a lot of therapy. So I think it was this process and, as I changed, the world was also changing, but it eventually became it was around seeing what was now happening, this new landscape online to other people. That made me realize, while there may be some some validity,

or some help in like me. If I'm the poster child for having been pebble, play shamed, and my life may not be great right now, but I'm still here that might help someone and so that that sort of began the process it was, it was actually the younger generations. You know I was waiting. Carter gave me a chance to write a first person essay. Vanity fair in when fourteen and what that meant was. I wasn't gonna be defined through a journalist eyes. I was going to define myself I was going to say what I wanted and it was the younger generations who insisted that the older generations, who really been around at times that, although lets you no stopping and have a rethink about this situation, not to say I shouldn't have had some blame, I certainly try to take responsibility for those things, but the idea that I bore more responsibility and more the cons

Whence is we're way worse for me, Jeff than they were for the most powerful man in the world and some of the other people. The scandal, all twenty years older than me, is in India. So I I you know, and I hope from other projects I do with this documentary with moroccan crimes during impeachment anything else that is that each is kind of chips away at what it is that happened to me. So that can happen to someone else. I feel you there. I appreciate you do thank you for taking the time to thank you for making us ask a few questions about ourselves, because I think you know the mistake we make sometimes in society is we like to make it seem, like other people, are always shitty when I think we all have a little shit inside of us and we don't even realise what that shooting this is or how it contributes to just like you know, becoming a giant rock that withdrawing and other people. So thank you for telling the story. Thank you for here and I think it would shining on the in key areas. for having been care. Fifty minutes of shame will be available to streamline HBO Max October said

What's the deal we shall we take another ten central and probably central and stream. Full episodes anytime. Paramount plus It has been a comedy central podcast, while, I have your ear. This is something exciting folks across Pennsylvania, our scratching, the way to all kinds of, and thanks to pay a lottery scratch off with new games every month, big tall prizes in even second chance drawings excitement is always an order, no matter what game you play so get your ticket defined today with appear lottery, scratch off and oh yeah, one more thing, keep on scratch and must be eighteen or older. Please play responsibly benefits older pennsylvanians. every day career builder is made for people who have that thing. You know those superpowers, make you gotta your job, the skills you bring to work and career,

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