aliens he believes that if you want a smartphone you should get the best deal on that smartphone no matter what kind of smartphone person you are people who replied attack immediately emoji over texters emoji haters customer mogi makers app personalizes and alphabetizes even those new laugh off their phone at the gym at a t and t we give new and existing customers our best deals on every smartphone save up to one thousand dollars on our most popular smartphones with eligible trade in offers vary by device terms and restrictions apply see a t and t dot com or visit and eighteen teaser for details this podcast is brought to you by nerd wallet are you they are trying to find the right cash back card for you nerd while it can help you make a smart decision by comparing top credit cards side by side find the right one for you nerd wallets team of nerves has the expertise to help you make a smart decision on your next cash back credit card nerd wallets jackie reviews of top credit cards hope you choose the right card ready to me

the financial decision compare in fine talk credit card savings accounts and more at nerd wallet dotcom nerd wallet the smartest disease for all your financial decisions listening to comedy central aids royal junior correspondent for the daily show next as an episode of a new daily show pike ass from my friend and daily show contributor jordan clever clippers going deeper into some of the conspiracy theories he's her in the past seven years on the trump campaign trail enjoyed it episode of jordan clever fingers the conspiracy take it away

in the days after the twenty twenty presidential election see a director gina haswell flies to procurement a secret mission to secure a computer servers that contain evidence that the election has been initiated these servers owed by a bankrupt spanish company called scale could prove that the election was rigged for joe biden passport a team of special forces troops to send on framework to destroy the evidence but in the raid five troops of the cia official or killed haswell herself is injured flowed to guantanamo bay and give it a tribunal for trees it do thou died that is wayland leader hugo chavez crew to voting system that could change vote in elections in any country using this technology would technology companies that uses it is called smart back which lies voted equipment to a single u s county the twenty twenty election the sky

between smart vatican hugo chavez is a secret and successful ever to rig the election for joe biden even though chavez has been dead for seven years pesaro italy a rogue employee at the defence and aerospace companies leonardo spa hacks to military satellites to change the margin of victory in u s states were trump has beaten by it well coup d'etat and it would go down as the most extraordinary effort in history to overturn a presidential election what thou and actually sounds pretty i tell you military satellite mama mia these are great i'll have forgetting one how can i imagine the hungarian vector there's been so many bizarre stories going on through the media you can have some pretty far fetched ideas on both sides and what we're doing is simply proving or disproving as many of those as we can

speaking to somebody on the outside this feels like it just feeding into conspiratorial thanking we're myth busters great ok we're doing things we think are fully but people believe it's real if we if we validate the something they think might have happened didn't happen and we're not going through on the fire are you looking into the hungarian vector i don't know that would hungary back it's a bullshit thing i just made up that sounds cool and a little bit spoken this george never figures the conspiracy and yes those twenty twenty election conspiracy theories do sound a lot more exciting when we put the domain suspenseful music underneath them you may have a few of those theories partly because the white house and republicans congress we're publicizing them in the weeks after the election to convince americans they elect stolen and it worked to an extent sixty one percent of republican still believed the election was stolen according to above university pole whatever of this very year

we need to talk to someone who has had the most legal success against trumps efforts in court to overturn the election and were also going to talk to supreme court expert but the cases in front court now that could determine have sure elections here are conducted but before we yet there i really want to go back to the italian military satellites this became known as italy gate and its filled with more juicy content than a piping hotcakes zone and the greatest part of conspiracy theory is that trumps cheap of staff more meadows was emily details of it to the attorney general jeffrey rose it to try to get him to do something or anything about it can unpack italy gate alone so let's entered eric levey he's jill research analysed at the institute for strategic dialogue and a former thus the gate of journalists who wrote sensibly about the italy gape conspiracy theory or as i like to call it was you gotta get there there's gonna be a lot of these erics i hope you're right i thank you for being here let's start them if we get to have this conspiracy theory which comes from

organization called nations in action the group apparently based in sarasota florida which published a press please titled senior eighty expert led global defence contractor debt testify as an italian federal court he had others switch throughout america in the u s presidential race can you expect however this for us definitely so it emerged a sort of italy twenty twenty and don't lovin murky about where it came from the washing and posted or a really good article on it but possibly was it had some sort of origins in asia in article in italian media and then a m in cia station chief member lee johnson at a video but the ones who really pushed it forward to answer your question of where murray is zack from nation's inaction and a woman named michelle roosevelt edwards let's start with let's let's break

talk to be a little bit about berea stroller zack you ve talked are correct i talk two i called her number and an identical voice answer the phone who said it wasn't her so they theoretically target as somebody who may have been herself pretended to be somebody else that's what reporting like us i hate phone calls and unlike emails as the arab zoom works for you you said what that person looks like as opposed to distrusting but ah but is this person who is maria strollers s so she's conservative activists and an ex georgia lobbyists who i guess was pretty successful and i think she ran for office a few times yourself just on the local level justice and point out very involved in this italy gate conspiracy and pushed it very far i feel it

this world you talk about italian satellites those things and you're probably a character is she a character of guessing it's interesting because when i watch the videos like she's clearly like a very intelligent person let's what's also like centres a bit of our conspiracy theory obviously which isn't which is false then you have a person is like you know she's laying it out with confidence tells a little bit about the shell roosevelt edward so she runs and another organisation called the institute of good governance and she started work closely with maria's icon on italy gate salute though simpler set a big article that at some point in icelandic film crew went to interview michel roosevelt edwards i don't know what that four but in the house i guess there was site where the movie the game where there's like there was something weird and like the house and she really like michael douglas is like now like this isn't a real how's that crew was in there and there like

is this your house because it's something and she's like ass my house anyway it turns out that it wasn't her house it was some other women's mansion and she's just a realtor like in the area and it's not her house and the poor woman her husband died she didn't even know she's like wisest woman in my house what are the odds of the dive just like your lord there there's oh dear lord who this interview in my living room somewhere else or something but it was like i felt i felt bad for knows like she was just using this house for like i dunno business you're telling me this person will put up an entire false front to show that she's successful that she has she's somehow connected to this whole trump world i don't buy it i sell inside it just doesn't it doesn't sit well with me ultimately those like those that killed me ok and i went out to dig into sort of their roles within this but this this initial thoughts

sort of revolving around and employ arturo delia correct yeah there's arm i was thinking about this last night this is that the hardest thing that italy gaiters i've been to state the obvious like explaining it d version is italian satellites based and discard italy altered the votes giving joe biden enough votes from donald trump to win that's the short version of it satellites there the bad guy well there's a lot of a players in this the cia former president barack obama the hacker that you just referenced and a lawyer who put out an affidavit there's like those for those so the hacker keyword for something called leonardo spa yeah work there they said he left two thousand seventeen which is another problem because he when he was indicted for a separate things like data theft

even work and we are well aware of what is laid out o spy been it sounds like a massage parlour and like a line just outside rome that like you you splurge could rub occasionally you don't have enough money so like what's a cheaper one leg come the leonardo spot right next to my lads low nails those it's about the i this is a hypothetical not had that experience i imagine and if you are poor and in italy and just at a hard time on a long plane because those seeds there's not a lot of space and euro tall person hypothetically pathetically you gotta looking for a leonardo spa this is not that kind of spa exactly no it's a somewhat more boring military you know like us a military they make military equipment satellites serbs stuff like that like like a boeing ok a boy did this is our torone delia the leah actually work for leonardo spa

my understanding is at some point he did work there but he was gone by two thousand and seventeen look at it the information that says that he had access to these italian satellites in a way that could altered election ah zero zero ok ok ok workers to this for the head of nations inaction this group president maria stroller zack who you spoken with the new reporting what she would she like well to be clear i was telling your producer that was that there was a funny story because when i called maria's act for comment being a phone i can't i don't know for a fact i can say that the personal answered sounded exactly like her baton me very quickly it was not her and actually said it was her secretary and could she the phrases could she returned and i i was asked how matters like it's this is a cell phone but anyway i like you know sir of course without did you ever

did that person then pretend to hang up put on a gruff voice and then attempt to that answered the phone it was the same voice but they were dislike you know can she return and i was like you know the reporter like its things like happened so yes of course no comment just to be where if you're also like a public figures somebody calls you and you pretend to be your own assistant just because i think it gives you had asked that doesn't make you weird that just as savvy meat a person thing to do and it by parents my friends think that's a desperate attempt or that i'm not good place well that's more of them can you verify that what would jumped out of many always remember what that was how quick it was it was very amino your committee internet provider it was real quick there was upon us like like and it happened before maybe that's that's that's an inch or two way of looking at it as opposed to just somebody who's quick under the go or at sea

at a quick interaction with this maria stroller zack but it gets what what what what what is our understanding of the story so she is head of nations actual what is nations of action if you're going web page there's a lot of a sort of conspiracy theories and i think they say their statement as x you no good government bringing its parents see obviously whether that's true as up to it determined adele but she was able to get this conspiracy and this idea in front of important people can you walk through some of that yes so she she used to be a lobbyist in georgia such as guy like close relationships with as i reported on car berry louder milk one of the down at one of the top five names in all of congress like if if if you are going to

if if you're going to articulate what it feels like to hear a southern republican droll on louder milk feels right it feels feels obnoxious and white which is cut us yeah he's he's an interesting i think i think there are he and his staff we're getting pretty tired of my emails after a while they stopped risk didn't ever response maybe then they added to their mailing list so that you shut somebody our budget given this them spam she got it to him she got into devon nunez staff i mean she you know a thing about last night like the order personal so much trouble reaching their elected officials and yet this person pushing a complete conspiracy theory that's not true is able to reach very high of people claims she gave documents too loud about due note within those documents yeah i don't have to do i know you guys

probably always working did you get a chance to see two affidavit that this is all based around no walkin what tell tales about it so the thing is that she delivered an affidavit basically what it is is it safe photograph of an actual document which right away is a little bit of unusual sought the document it's it's a lawyer stating that this hacker that you mentioned at the beginning sat in front of him and told his story that's what it is no one's been able there is a law that matches this name but no one's been able to actually show that like really that he that it was that lawyer so it's not clear of this things even real you can't even provided that conversation took place no the document i guess i'm an expert on court documents in italy but there's no numbers on it like it's just you someone like wrote it microsoft word and she's also raised

it was doing in an interview about italy gate for the back of a car i should in dc january six what's going on there this happened it's very real the president is right foreign interference did occur and people need to be prosecuted in our country who actually participate and that was the show called amerika can we talk and that's a very strange interview just because as you said it's taking this while the our capital is being attacked but there is no mention of it till the end there like i think there is actually something like well if we are able to get this under control we can get this out david to more people as i would like with you know it's very strange there's a lot of it received red flags and characters within this year but after all these conversations meetings talking to come louder milk now how high did this go like government with actually taking this very seriously

that's a great questions seriously i mean in terms of of as you said yourself meadows i guess would be the highest ranking person and get it taking it seriously unilateral conspiracy there is your wonder who is an opportunist who's not what i been everything question you said i had taken it theirs they we'd we don't exactly know what people actually yard but i i would argue that part of the whole game plan here was too so doubt you so the fact that there were different threads for people to hold onto too good asp clearly donald trump as somebody who is just like in the market place with any thought out there that its gideon peoples ed like who had awareness of it we're talkin meadows meadows knew about this which means prob had awareness of this how did this thing get into more mainstream culture

zack too she says she delivered or she told trump about this and moral argo and twenty twenty i i can confirm that but she said that a number of times really so i guess stands your question of if that's true than that reached donald trump what all this is happening is fair to say that we didn't know how much of the voter fraud conspiracy theory would stick these stories were so outlandish that it didn't seem possible that millions of people would believe them and yet even today the majority of republican say they don't think the twenty twenty election was legitimate does that encourage republika lawbreakers to push more conspiracy theories neither probably will be consequences in doing so probably will at least help them subway consequences are alike obviously credibly important like when there are no consequences were given i'd latitude to speak and that's a good thing but as you know some conspiracies are incredibly harmful so

i don't know i in cases like i dunno at saint alex jones when people are actually held accountable makes a huge difference still let us stop tomorrow and you never hear from them again what what it was about italy gate that made it so sticky and interesting to people so there's a conference call i think it was on january fourth twenty twenty one it's between maria zack and supporters so it's right before the attack on the capital is forty five minutes long and adjust she lay italy gate and then it's weird like all these random people are popping unlike like us analyse marilla maples pops in and just like she's everyone else is just a first names you don't even know really who they are what's martha maples do there i don't know like a support i guess very strange and all of this was ordered to just hip everybody to the italy gate theory

so that they had it in their back pocket i mean i want to say that she comes right answer but there's some hints of to contain this work i we will need funding like a private pain is talked about a one point so reproaches she's she's asking for replied i don't have it might have been one of the other people but there is definitely more than one hint thereabout like we need you no money this i like a timeshare situation as everybody on a conference at all let me tell you about this fascinating italy's the situation if you give me your attention and enough money for a private play it i have something that is gonna take your bread the way in marla april's does a good job in words like that smile a model has been on this for quite some time heard her family are big italy gate supporters and you two could be in italy gate supporter for just a mere two thousand dollars we give you the correct with good mind set to keep you happy for this day forward

this isn't the last seven years kind of feel like a time shared like do you ever feel like the alec you're just trapped i yes i do feel i've given over a portion of my life to live different reality every year and you look at it you like i think this is a bad investment i think the time share is giving in to all of this that we're talking about it just its the way so much time that it could be using for something else that a timeshare maybe that's what we're describe it is a time sock we ve all i stood at a time so that we will never get back we can all agree is a really bad it's wild i mean this is the conspiracy theory that like i think it's time producer like even other conspiracy theories are like he like that's how far this one is is out there like where does this italy guy conspiracy break in terms of all the conspiracies relief into the twenty twenty election i would say in terms of the ones that are like the wildest this has to be at the top i can

think of me i know you guys been doing this for a while and undertake ass if there's another one i can't think of one billion euros add some day hugo chavez is a fine what it's definitely takes a stretch romance nation but there's intrigue their sexiness to this i i'd i'd have to up there as well like the little details that kill me like that the data it wasn't enough that it was the italian satellites they rooted through germany it's like like why like that's right others there like over as this fascinating there's somebody on the ground or in the air in germany that was getting this information or or or why came through the satellites through germany yeah they're saying like at some point they never got into the sort of like how the the stuff was transmitted but it was from the satellites and went through i think some servers in germany and then i go back to the u s so there the erratic

if this were real not only are there folks in italy who are a culpable but there are folks germany as well which were always kind blows my mind with a larger conspiracy theories because they may hype the idea behind it involves somebody people that even afterwards you'd expect one day really bad at is keeping secrets especially if it's a multinational effort to overturn results very specific states no just disappears into the void which serve i think people to consider a major red flag is the right word but if if you believe so strongly as something you believe as happened and then thirty seconds later when it doesn't we know when it's gone you just onto the next thing the kind of questions like credibility i think we lost that a long time with eric way thank you for unfolded this conspiracy theory like carefully needed a perfect pizza pie thanks much

we're gonna take a short break we come back with us at the pennsylvania attorney general governor elect josh shapiro we'll be right back eighty he believes that if you want a smartphone you should get the best deal on that smart from no matter what kind of smartphone person you are the out of the blue video colors video colors who could have just text in people who replied attacks immediately even casters emerging overtake there's a motor haters custom emerging makers personalized and alphabet those who meet people through apps and end up with four different mystery m saved in their phone even though last music at maximum off their power at the jab the maximum brightness readers and minimum battery havers others who live on the edge like the case was smartphone people among us that eighty anti we give everyone knew annexes

sing customers are best deals on every smartphone save up two one thousand dollars on our most popular smartphones with eligible trade in offers vary by device terms and restrictions apply see a t and t dot com or visit and eighteen t store for details sponsorship for the daily show comes from nerd what are you looking for the card but have offers coming out of the woodwork nerd while it can help you make smart decisions by comparing top funding your products side by side to find the right one for you nerd wallets of nerds use their expertise to help you make smart financial decisions if feeling overwhelmed by the options out their nerd while it can help you narrow down your choices with objective reviews and side by side compared since looking for more road trips next year nerd wall can help you find a cash back card with bonus percentages in cash a glorious you spend the most in like gas or groceries all that cash back can help you it more road miles next year ready make a financial decision coherent

top credit cards savings accounts and more at nerd wallet dotcom nergal this modest decision for all your financial decisions days after the twenty twenty election pennsylvania became the focus of republican efforts to overturn the results they wrapped up their attacks on the legitimacy of mail and ballots and claim that balance would arrive after election day i'd be mixed with battle that arrive before election day anticipating the possible supreme court showdown pencil attorney general josh shapiro began separating those post election day ballots and became a high profile example of a democratic body back against the voter fraud conspiracy theory and as the trump team became litigious before and after election day shapiro beat trop more than forty times

court last month's mid term shapiro one the race for governor of pennsylvania defeating one of the countries most prominent boat or fraud conspiracy theories doug mastery anna and josh apparel is with us today to talk about the exciting world of voter fraud welcome to the shell could be with your thanks for handling of course we are debating a current governor elect soon to be governor josh shapiro that's that's most right yeah and that look i i only require are for children to use all of the titles when they address me you can call me whatever you want and will not whatever you want but you can call me one of those titles of you gotta say do you also throw in a beat trump forty times and court moniker or a lot of people also have that in their their name as well the guy's been to court many many times

i dunno about that but listen we went to court forty three times against the former president and his enablers and we beat him every time we protected the right to vote we'd have free and fair safe and secure election here in pennsylvania back in two thousand and twenty again in two thousand and twenty one and most recent in twenty twenty two the will the people was respected each time when you ve been at the centre of these claims over voter proud for over two years now even though you did when the race for governor it appears as if the state is moving forward does it still alarm you how many voters obviously many of them republican appear to have bought into these conspiracy theories it does but yeah jordan i don't blame the voters hear me on this i i blame the leaders who've been lying to them for the better part of the last two and a half years about voting by mail about this foamy election fraud

when you have leaders who you trust you put in the positions of authority and then they lie to you over and over and over again it's hard to blame the public i blame the leaders and the good news is we're defeating those leaders who pushed the big lie from the former president his chief and eight were here in pennsylvania who i just be in it governors race and hopefully now what we can do is continue to speak truth to the good people pennsylvania to the american people and help them understand reality from the fiction that the former president forced and get back to having a healthier democracy why went one of the rallies your opponent held right there the state capital and talk to some of the tens of people whose up about twelve people showed up that day and after a minimal amount of fanfare mastery i appear was broken hilarious going after the pillow guy are you serious gimme a break beat scotty

be me up no sign of intelligent life anywhere boom but even where the coveted trump endorsement the crowd was dining was small because of mastery arrows far right policies and election denial is nope you get this facebook pressing you can be a reason in our buildings because facebook is in silencing the silencing and yet it was a low turn out i felt like it it seemed as if you had a good shot of wording that race up i want to talk but what about mastery otto though has he have spread more election related conspiracy theories than any other candidate let's go through couple of these he he was claiming their voting machines glitch did michigan and switch six thousand biden votes were also responsible for a hundred thousand vote dumps they were all four biden in the middle of the night

showing a gateway pundit post of suspected fraud issues that included away for people to search for dead people who voted using something called the social security death master file the catchy it was claiming dominion voting machines were built intentionally to rig the election for democrats and claiming that act seventy seven pennsylvania law that allows no excuse voting by mail was illegally past it was responsible for bind win to walk us through some of these and tell us how you pushed back against the wall calling on what they were complete and utter bull shit that's what they were he was lying to the good people of pennsylvania his conduct to try to overthrow the last election remember he was part of the violent mob that stormed up to the capitol on january six and he went there that day in israel import jordan he went there that day not just to hear his speech from the former president or be part of some peaceful protest

he went there that day with a singular purpose that's why they were all there and that was to deny people's votes from well too cause remember when you vote here in pennsylvania is true another stage baloney focus on pennsylvania you vote for the presidential race in pennsylvania in two thousand and twenty your vote its tally by your local county board of elections gets certified by the governor and the secretary of state in pennsylvania but then in order for your vote to finally cow it has to be read across the desk in the u s house of representatives what they were there to do on january set and he was there as part of a violent mob too at them from doing then comes back home to pennsylvania launches a campaign for governor and jordan he says in his campaign that he was gonna use his power as governor to be able to review all the voting machines make correct is he caused them and then he would pick the winner

that's not how democracy works that is not how the public has survived over the last two hundred and forty six years and so it was important for us beat him to just i when the election but also to protect our democracy to protect the will of the people and to make it clear to folks that spewing conspiracy theories being part of a violent mob pledging to overturn the next election is the way things work in the council of pennsylvania were in this country why i was surprised many people talk to that day were also there are january sex it was almost a mini reunion you have been aggressive at pushing back and i made headlines for that do you think that's your view greece is a sign that voters are energize by candidates who pushed back gradually against election day you gotta fight back against it in and look

done it in big waves in small i may have been in the hunt clubs in rural communities in pennsylvania fronted folks directly and they'll say to me where they will worst enemy i enter the election twenty twenty was stolen so so what what evidence do you have of that but she does have a conference now there is massive vote or fraud and i say you know i'm i'm the attorney general it's my job to prosecute election fraud along with some district attorneys as well and we had about a handful of cases of election fraud in two thousand and twenty by the way where each of those individuals who were prosecuted we're trying to cast one extra single vote for them our candidate for president by the way for donald trump not for joe biden but even if they were trying to do that for joe biden it wasn't gonna affect the outcome the election it was not this one spread voter fraught and they were prosecuted for so i come from folks with truth

try to force them to think about the reality of what they are saying in addition to that critically important for us here in pennsylvania in arizona in michigan and other places to defeat those people who continue to spread the lies now i said on election night when i won jordan that this is the beginning of our work just as we beat these election deniers doesn't mean that its red from our system we have to now do the hard work they felt i've been doing for the last forty six years in this nation right our ancestors and their ancestors two per our union to speak truth to make sure that the will of the people is respected citing we ve done step one defeating those extremists but now we gotta do the hard work of protecting our union and that now falls to me as the next governor of pennsylvania how complete do you think step one truly is because i did look looking at

the major election deniers the raises in arizona michigan pennsylvania here swing states where the people in control of verifying those ballots could have very well gone to election deniers but big places they were defeated but but there is still a lot of people who are action deniers position of power in america a lot very close races where perhaps election were defeated but it didn't when i looked at this i didn't exist we see the idea of election denial ism expunged from the american narrative but perhaps stepping back for a little bit is there is there a fear that democrats are a little too confident in naples back of election did idealism after this election what will let me say i'm not confident that it's over at all so don't you know certainly don't put me in that category i'm in the category where we we a

good day on tuesday november eighteen defeating those extremists those election deniers but we have so much more work to do now i believe if that these elections deniers are national particular just profoundly and theoretically weak people explain what i mean by that they know it's bullshit but they say it over and over again because they're willing to sell out our democracy in our country for some short term political game for some short term attention maybe some love from the former present that's why they do it that's the definition of weak if you're willing to sell out your nation and our values on behalf of your own short term gulfs will now we denied many of them that short term goal and hopefully in defeating them the way we have it forces that next batch of candidates to come along and say jesus really the path i wanna take to be successful it doesn't

make them any stronger it just speaks to hell how can a spine was so many these folks are letting them know there how can it be rewarded for the lie and so i think hopefully this will have an effect on the politics as we go forward we also need to work on reading our system of these weak folks and getting some people at backbones back in and then about wagered folks who might disagree with me on some policy that's ok but we gotta get back to the boy were we strong capable people in positions of public trust who argue about policy and health care policy and education policy all the things that we should be arguing about the healthy fights were supposed to have we've ve gotta continue the battle against these weak people in defeating them in their elections in defeating them in their in their political aims did you of any democrat from other states reach out to you to ask advice on confronting this election denial i did a lot of them folks run

for governor and other offices and spoke of shopkeepers conversation private but i could speak to them about the need to the fine on directly to not give an inch on this you know when they say that something was stolen challenge them on it the facts out there make sure that you're going directly to the good people in my case of pennsylvania with the facts do not lead any of that nonsense stand looking forward war we are right now trouble then again elon is green lighting misinformation all over twitter we know that voter fraud conspiracies are going to get worse in two thousand and twenty for what are tangible steps the democratic party can take to fight and push back knowing the the right now get out trotted me people where they are that's why i'm talking to you today i mean you ve been out front on them importance of combating election denial is you have exposed these folks and and the lies they tell by europe

knocking them in and in showing not the humour in it because obviously this is incredibly serious but but showing people this in a way that they can comprehend it if then i'll read you the front page of the wall street journal near times not to save it your lizards don't read that the new york times but the point please read the headlights they would have ready the headlines you gotta be people where they are you gotta communicate to them he other show them the difference between fiction in reality and then i have responsibly now as a governor to hold myself up to that high standard and continue to speak truth and continue in it communicate me people where they are whether we're talking them on tik tok on your podcast anyway we gotta meet people where they are and continue to share the truth you say you eat you you went to hug clubs you went to places where people had questions about the election i get the question all the time you ever change people's

and boy that is that's a unicorn i can't see i'm watching people change their minds about information we were at those places being confronted with outside facts doesn't always is often met with resistance and a doubling down of the things they they think they believe they feel challenge in a way that i have not found conducive to reaching a new understanding did you actually see that in those moments in those those that hunt clubs with people who were confronting you and you're pushing back sometimes i did directly but what i was really gone after was was ninety embarrass anyone in their peers for someone to have two me and from their peers and say you're right i'm wrong when i thought for last year you know it is incorrect what i really wanted was when they left there to be thinking about it and approved

it and it maybe make a change in their thinking or their politics or the way they might vote and join i got some pretty good evidence that we made a whole lot of people think as i want this gunners raised i a big we want by fifteen points by got more votes than anyone in the history of pennsylvania run for governor the reason i'm telling you not to pass over the back but because it would be impossible to win with the number of votes we did the margin we did with only democrats we had a whole lot of republicans and independent cross party want to support us a whole lot of people who clearly rethought their politics after twenty sixteen and even twenty twenty and said you know what we're going to go with this guy we're going to we're going to go against the election denier we're going to believe true thin and hopefully we can all be able to continue to come together to repair about will after such a clear hubble brag such as that didn't i chill about that no did you did a pretty good job that's that's what i like it's yours

davy politician even even the bragging does come across some how as as humble and informative that's me it gets well played will your high profile success here has up some of the speculation whereupon will have i've seen you in the light of somebody who could be a democratic nominee for president do you want to use the jordan clapper fingers the conspiracy podcast as a platform that you confirm loving hearing that spain should yeah now look i i'm just so excited to be governor i haven't even been sworn in yet i got a lot of work to do it's all i wanna do that's all my wife and kids want me to do and that's all i am going to do awesome well well thank you for talking to me governor elect josh shapiro we'll be right back agent he believes that if you want a smartphone you should get the best deal on that smart from no matter what kind of smartphone person you are the out of the blue video colors video collar

who could have this text in people who replied ex immediately even gasters emerging overtake stars dimona haters custom emerging makers personalized and alphabetized those who meet people through who apps and end up with four different mystery jim saved in their phone even though last music at maximum off their power at the gym the maximum brightness readers and minimum battery havers the others who live on the edge the caseload smartphone people among us that eighty anti we give everyone knew annexed sing customers are best deals on every smartphone saving two one thousand dollars on our most popular smartphones with eligible trade in offers vary by device terms and restrictions apply see a t and t dot com or visit and eighteen t store for details sponsorship for the daily show comes from nerd what are you looking for the guard but have offers coming out of the woodwork nerd while it can help you make smart decisions by comparing top funny

shall products side by side to find the right one for you nerd wallets team of nerds use their expertise to help you make smart financial decisions you're feeling overwhelmed by the options out their nerd while it can help you narrow down your choices with objective reviews and side by side compare since looking for more road trips next year nerd wall can help you find a cash back card with bonus percentages incur categories you spend the most in like gas or groceries all that cash back can help you it more road miles next year red make a financial decision comparison i taught credit cards savings accounts and more at nerd wallet dotcom nerd while this smartest decision for all your financial decisions we're back and we're talkin election fraud it's obviously something i hear over and over the campaign trail but unlike some of the other

piracy theories move covered this podcast this one some serious implications on the future of our democracy this but the supreme court is hearing arguments in a case called more verses harper and it could fundamentally change how elections are conducted drake this down with me the supreme court expert author of lady justice women the law and the battle to save america and host of sleep podcast abacus dahlia with wick walking the pike asked high jordan dahlia i've got the the fact you are well aware that you are wearing not one but two headphones today is there a conspiracy in this do you want me to do a secondary podcast on your hyper attention or are you just a super big jordan copper fingers a conspiracy i mean i can replace the joke i made the first time you tell me where i said that

if rudy giuliani can wear two watches i can wear up to headphones but i i you know i'm a belt and suspenders guy i went to law school and we learned to be very very very compulsive so that's my story i'm sticking to it you're a belt and suspenders guy what does that mean that means it's it's it's is that an overabundance of caution or fear that your pants could at any moment fall like what is this is what we do on this podcast we really get to the nitty gritty but is this is this is a move out of fear or respect true story i heard the expression at one point very early in my career covering oral arguments at the court like what the hell does this mean in all these lawyers were like it just means being careful idiot so i think not to just that you're not knowing this term implies anything but it was i learned the hard way that apparently everyone but me knew that belgian suspenders is just kind of

shorthand for lawyer lee over cautiousness maybe i also fear that your pants will fall down i was going to say it's interesting is that like you it's it's all about spit it's either caution or it's fear but but i see how the attorneys do it it's it's its introduction of sound and i appreciate you taking that certain suspenders action to listen to this i want to talk about in out the potential collapse of the bag say it's a hobby of mine and i want to discuss with this more v harper we talk when that case itself and what that might mean for election

sure it is it's hard to say this crisply jordan but its both the most serious and least serious case of my career it serious because the implications are vast which were going to talk about its also rooted in so much nothing that it's almost painful like when they call it the independent state legislature doctrine or the independent state legislatures theory almost everybody puts doctrine in theory in airports as there is no there there it's not something that is rooted in constitutional history it's not something that's rooted in tradition it's something that was almost entirely plucked from

a chunk of a rehnquist opinion in bush v gore that only got three votes it's not a majority opinion where he was kind of spit balling you may recall bush v gore also not a serious decision to this is like a request fever dream that we're in the midst of right now it's a rank fever dream where he sort of spitballs hey maybe state legislatures have you no kind of plenary on review a bull power and state courts can't come in and big foot on them it gets two votes that should be the end of the story but instead its being lifted up as this in britain piece of doktor em and not to get too in the weeds but the real reason its serious is because if the claim in this case in this case comes from a north carolina gerrymander the north carolina supreme court says oh hell now do do your man

it's again and the north carolina republican legislature takes us to the supreme court and says we were here proffering this completely asinine rootless theory that when a legislature does election stuff no court can review it end of story is that we are

in a nutshell if you're to explain it to our audience remember a host pretend they're somebody who read the headline of a vox article but maybe didn't get all the way through because they're busy is that basically it it's it's something that's looking at the power of state legislatures over federal elections and question whether or not they have ultimate power as that is their ballpark there's a kish but there's there's one clarification there's one section of this that has to do with the electors clause in the constitution that's the federal elections there's one that is the elections clause that has to do with state elections that this particular case actually doesn't implicate some of the stuff we talked about bread rations burger and you know state electors and sending over fake state electors this is not scooping up that this is about state processes but it does mean that if a red state and let's remember thirty of the fifty

dates have red state legislatures if they decide they want to make up new rules about ballot initiatives they want to do new vote suppression they want to do a close polling play whatever they want to do they are saying nobody can take this to a state supreme court not even a federal court a state supreme court and complain because basically nobody is the boss of me so this this particular one is about the state it how state election procedures are handled but one tiny wrinkle their jordan is worth saying one consequence of that is that if they win on that claim you're going to have on the same ballot they used to have state and federal elections complete chaos because one set of them can't be reviewed and one presumably can so one of the things that this is going to inject into the system is totally different lanes for it

state and federal office ok so ulysses perplexed and worried that i've made it zones it sounds like there maybe she should be a check or a balance in there that these state legislatures shouldn't be what we the final say in what would it where are the justices stand like what is the actual likelihood that state legislatures will gain control of federal election procedures i mean here's the tricky part we already have four justices on the current supreme court who have evinced real enthusiasts for this theory so we have justice alito gorsuch and thomas that are kind of like pedal to the metal this is cool and in some of the pre twenty twenty election cases we saw them sort of a fusing about

i call this was and then we have a fourth justice kavanaugh who's done some like chin stroking ye like oh who says kind of i think this is pretty compelling but isn't necessarily all in let's remember it takes four votes to grant a case so that might be it we don't know where amy coney barrett barrett's it's on this we do know that chief justice john roberts doesn't think this is necessarily a fantastic idea we also know he's irrelevant so there might be five votes already going in so this call is probably coming down to amy coney barrett is going to decide this case that's that's your best guess right now my guess is that john roberts thinks this is too extreme and he's written lots of prior cases of famously unerring arizona case where he has said time and time again known and interpret the ticking state just

judges powers away over state legislatures so i think he's pretty much gonna adhere to some version of that this is where could do right we have we made that point enough this is insane and john roberts as many things in saying he is not so yes i think it comes down to what justice bear it thinks and we have no idea on this doctrine what she thinks with this issue has popped up over the last hundred years supreme court has bad it adopt over and over again why is it cropping back up now it's coming back up as part of this kind of larger larger and i think this goes tier sort of votes suppressed

frame what do you do when you can't win majorities anymore and ethnic array which you do is you capture state houses and then you jack gerrymander the heck out of your state voting systems to make sure that tiny minorities stay in charge and so i think this is of a piece with a whole subset of things either its voter suppression bills like you know the stuff that stacy abrams has been fighting or whether it is ridiculous you know mallet portion meant that means that you know the alabama case that that the court heard earlier this year merrill

we're here you have a third of alabama of alabama is african american almost a third twenty seven percent there all smashed into one of seven districts so they can't elect the candidature of their choice so i think there's all sorts of ways that use suppress majorities and i put this in the bucket of why do it small if you can do it huge ronicky if you can chest do whatever you want is a state legislature and its anew fuel by any court and by the way just and when other parents ethical there's a maximum list crazy version of this not at issue in more viii harper that would also say that governors like you talked about checks and balances also have no power to do anything they can't veto this so i think one wait a sort of lock in minority rule for time immemorial is to just make it impossible for majority will to be represented at the ballot box go big or

oh home and while you're at home just stay there because there's no reason to go out to vote or that you can have an entire orderly election and this is where folks should think about what happened in georgia in two thousand and twenty where you have a completely orderly non chaotic election and then you have the legislature we like you don't like those electors let's cover this slate of it which is what john eastman and donald trump were asking brad reference burger to do so i want to be super clear that issue is not i think in the four corners of what this appeal is but i think it's of it like you have to draw straight line between this and the kind of intellection denial ism we are seeing in twenty

when are you where do you had states and state legislatures being lobbied by donald trump by ginni thomas by john eastman to be like and never mind what the voters say let's do it this way well let's let's let's draw that line so we do have conspiracy theorists at election deniers and pretty prominent positions granted quite a few of them did lose in the mid term including carry lake in arizona who is now contesting her loss for governor even other results have already been certified is it crazy to think that whole stay they that have elected deniers in their legislatures could just choose to throw out the result in federal i can't i don't think it's crazy and i think in fact one of the things this doctrine is setting up is

the stepping stone towards that right i mean the reason it didn't happen in twenty twenty when donald trump called georgia and said you know gimme a fresh ballad of fake electors is that there was no architecture in place to support that right this case would be part of building the architecture that says state legislatures can do whatever they want it is unreviewable nothing can go to a state supreme court and one other point again on this is in in there's an easy way to solve this particular north carolina case which is the actual legislature north carolina has already said that the state judiciary can review these questions so this is an easy case it shouldn't even be a question because the legislature has taken this power away from itself but i do think you're exactly right to say this is really a building block toward a future

where state legislatures power are so utterly unreliable or even crippling review able only by the us supreme court that you should stay home what you you say that shouldn't be a question and i guess i'm curious what that says about our country political ideology and also the ideology of the justices there are a number of conservative legal figures who are coming out against this report even here in this case the fact

they are what what does that say about the ideology of justices sit so this is without a doubt for me the most interesting part right you ve got mike looting the guy who almost got chief justice john robert seat at the court right he was on a shortlist this is a stalwart conservative legal movement giant he's also the guy by the way who you may recall my pants was like did can i do this thing lit donald trump is asking me to do and not certify the election it was might lead egg in a conservative legal giant whose like no mike you can't do bad so he's wildly come out opposed to this and in fact i think he's one of the people at least he said on my pie the cast like this would signal the demise of orderly elections in checks and balances so he's come out against it ben ginsburg famous republican election lawyer is against it every chief justice of every state supreme court is on a brief in this case saying like this is insane

when calibration co founder of the federalist society has come out and get like there's a very few same conservative figures who are for this so then your operative question is why the hell is the court flirting with this like why are they playing footsie with a theory advanced principally by john eastman the guy who was the architect of the january sticks legal coup and i think the reason is because there's no breaks at the u s

in court because they have a six justice super majority everything in the world they wanted last term abortion guns you know knee capping the e p a knee capping the cdc everything they wanted they got everything they didn't get last year they're getting this year so this is just to my friendly eliminate michigan calls it the hashtag yolo court you know they used to have some solicitude and sensitivity for what the public could tolerate and i think now they're like directly in opposition to what the public can tolerate they're like eighty percent of americans hate this let's dale grades this is what what what an uplifted conversation it so i would ask you to hear about the people who are pulling the levers here ok so let's if states choose to do this if this is a situation that does come into fruition what

taxes at it for democracy is there anything people in these states could do to prevent that well i think that you're gonna see very much what you're sort of seeing posts dogs which is bleak states will rush to bolster blue state super majorities and will create in a super majority districts and will do all the things that new york tried to do and failed to do in the mid terms but you'll see red states rushing to bolster you know the power of republican super majorities and all the ways that they do that and so i think in a weird way may

it's a a sort of second iteration of the red state blue state patchwork we're seeing around guns around environmental protection around abortions we're just gonna see both sides further you know push whatever it is that they can do to make sure they have and losers will power and that's pretty scary the important question i think we're all thinking about what does this mean for me in the short term am i going to go out into the world and just hear stop the steel forever or at least intel rogue red states decide to reinstall president tromp again tat is what we call a stephen prior for part hypothetical question can we start

there are so many pieces of that i mean i think what it really means is that first of all this is an incredibly abstract case nobody understands case this should be bigger than bush we got the implications as i said are vast and yet i think folks are just like flummery straight on lee stop the steel folks i have to say just looping back to where you started jordan i'm pretty happy about the fact that the stop the steelers got absolutely shall act in the mid terms because it tells me it was not a salient as they thought it was an more urgently and i think the polling really showed this people kind of like democracy hooky it was one of the issues that people showed up you know in addition to reproductive rights people

really anxious that the machinery of crushing democracy had kind of gotten until all them so i actually think if not to say this is a worry it's a huge worried because the supreme court as we have both stipulated does not care what you and i think but i do think that the appetite for crazy lawless vote suppression denmark see shattering initiatives is not what i think donald trump and carry lake thought it was and so i'm like i was like eight bourbons in this time before the you know but before the mid terms i think maybe this isn't terrible because i think as much as its

ex that the u s supreme court is an unchecked church tucker see that is going round doing whatever the hell at once with life tenured people one of whom has a wife who was involved and generous that's bad what's agree i think that folks recognise that after the ups and away they didn't and i think that the ability to just sit there and like take it on the chin because the supreme court says so is much i think the two for that is in decline right now think people are sort of angry and so i'm not as hopeless as you sound like drink to that that looks like a good place to dial it will take you broke up out of the podcast it italy's a pleasure you know that at the end of our six episode limited edition many series something like that is a limited series is a podcast whatever it is we did six episode it's what we said we're going to do now after that we'll come back because there's

always a world in which americans believe dumb shit when i talk about all that takes released there's a bit of last lesson during copper figures the conspiracy from the daily show apple podcasts the radio app or wherever you get your podcasts the once the daily show we take another ten central and common sense and stream full episodes anytime paramount plus this has been a comedy central podcast sponsorship for the daily show irritation comes from hyundai

have you ever thought about your car personality what's your vibe do you like a classic fully gas powered engine or are you a best of both worlds type with a convenient hybrid ride driving on battery power with gas in reserve just in case whichever your vibe there's a hyundai tucson to match and power trying to get you there ok honey this junta usa darkened learn more about the twenty twenty three hundred who signed the twenty twond every tuesday i'm plugin hybrid is always fall in california colorado connecticut may massachusetts mail in new jersey new york org rhode island in vermont please i kissed him up a bit information network a career builder are helping the next generation of african american achievers reach their goals if we want a one culture version where builders one hundred thousand careers amiss empowering black job seekers to advance their career me with one of over five thousand expert receive personalized report details

your interviews with an improvement but today echo will build a dot com slash behind her refilled dot com slash b i