Headquarters of broadcasting from a dollar car rental studios, as the show that is dumb, has taken the place of the Bmw, the status of I'm Dave Ramsey your host. Thank you for joining us, open phones at triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two five, that's triple eight, eight, two, five five Two hundred and twenty five, bell is whether some Virginia high is. How are you great thank

I'm so excited to talk to you. Thank you for taking my call. I can help you out I did nothing to you everyday with my husband and I are currently on baby step two. Pretty much are besides our car lease, which is up next. Spring around March. That's the only thing we have beside our house we we, my husband, I can't agreed on either sell rental property or keep it. So here it goes. Isn't that able to block from where we live we are in very expensive area, so the value decks the up, because Amazon is around the corner. Currently about six and fifty six and fifteen every solid. We have ten in there we do make money. On top of the mortgage payment, roughly about four hundred and fifty dollars net uh, we have a balance of broccoli? Three hundred and eighty five and we do have capital gain because we only lived in it for a year and a half, my Should we

and use the proceeds after taxes accelerate baby steps, deserve and the caveat is that we need to have college college. We have two daughters that we don't have a five hundred and twenty nine. How old are your daughters, nine and ten, what's your household income? Oh two, one slash four good, ok, Doing rather well, and once the house worth the rental right now, um, six hundred and fifteen, and the thing is all ten and would at one point is it for months ago, have expressed interest in buying it So I don't know if uh, but either way we can't sell it until they lease is up, which is next spring, so after expenses you got around two hundred thousand dollars, equity give or take and you'll have some tax. As you said, because it's gone,

I a couple hundred grand while you owned it roughly. So you probably thirty thousand in taxes? How long you been running it actually for wild oats ever since we lived in this house. Is our house all about thirteen, fourteen years, okay and what your personal more, major on your personal residence. Mortgage gosh gosh, we know you refinance the balance. Seven hundred, no, six hundred and eighty thousand ok, alright the right properties, not a bad property? It's got enough equity in it at all, actually be careful in more than it is only making one thousand dollars a year on a six hundred thousand dollars; investment, that's not too good! Well, I will not drink just so. There is a three by twenty three. Armando's rental.

So it will expire in three years. But that was nice thing that I worry. I don't know what the rate will be right, By that time, we'll worry about it, for me, is that my financial advisor few days ago and we looked into maybe we can take the post and put it in if I twenty, nine or different path of, college, because Well, here's the way. Here's the way to answer the question and you and your husband can look at that. Look at it. This way shut down tonight turn off the television concentrate on this problem and talk together, conversation, not an argument? tonight and and let's just take your kitchen table clean the dishes off and let's pile two hundred thousand dollars cash in the middle of the table. Ok okay. Would we find kids college and pay down our mortgage and work some of the other baby steps get a car 'cause your lease is going to run out

taxes on it or would we buy a rental property. An I think you are saying you would definitely not by a rental property. Even though there's a lot of reasons, 'cause its properties going up in value. It's a strong markets around the corner from a- Lawyer and sharp, excited about it of a gold angle on it in the market and kind of thing. But I love Reynolds. I've got a bunch of them and I, like I'm, paid for, like your house, paid for I think this rental is a leftover. You didn't set out to buy this property as a rental. You became a rental by default when you moved out of it and into this other property, instead of selling it at the time, for whatever reason uhm you Kapitan rented it and but you didn't say you were sitting in the current property you're in and say I want to go, buy a rental property and if you did, you probably want a ball that one. Because it's not doing real well cash flow wise. I mean it

or five hundred dollars on you know the later return on the two hundred thousand equity that you've got even is not that great. So it's okay, but it's just not there's nothing here exciting! So I as much as I love real estate in your situation, I think you have other priorities other than investment real estate right now. I think, someday that once you get the five hundred and twenty nine and patch the car fleece and get you paid off. I think someday you'll probably save up with your fabulous income and buy you some paid for rentals 'cause. I think your husband likes rentals and I do I'm a fan of real estate when done right and on debt free In your case, I would probably sell it thanks for the call, phones at eight billion, eight hundred and eighty eight million two hundred and fifty five thousand two hundred and twenty five Maryland's Benz calling from Maryland Hi Ben. How are you Hi good afternoon Dave, I have a an insurance question for you, my wife and I we had renter's insurance and the insurance agent

fear sold us water, backup and sump combo. Insurance. Five thousand dollars limit and I want to know if it's worth keeping for this year. The in a day, Into your rental right this, is that it's part of the insurance part of the renter's insurance. Is it food, but was it an upcharge for sump pump up yeah? It's a it's! A it's like the property coverage and liability coverage. This is an optional additional. What did you pay for it it's thirty nine dollars does the already have a sump pump. So I basically for Us- is that rented out to somebody and we have the Where is that? chances. Are the sump pump packing up and going up a story of o

the insurance agent told us they would like if the toilet overflows or if they think overflows or you know a water heater breaks and causing that type of damage, probably going to self insure through these things, unless you're living, absolute freaking dump of some kind, but thirty nine dollars and kill you one, the other, but it sounds like a gimmick. Insurance obviously and so main thing I want you covered for with renters insurance is fire and theft, contents or a little bit of liability. If one of your friends falls down in there and decides to sue you instead of the landlord or something like that: some liability, insurance and fire and theft on your and so it's really already is a couple. One hundred dollars a year in most states will do that about one thousand dollars with the coverage, everyone that's running, needs a renter's policy, but I don't run into sump pump, backup insurance before that's a new one, now a past

The call this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Actually, though, is with us in Pennsylvania. I tell either. Are you better than I do told? How can I help today?

Ok? So I'm calling about baby steps, four I'm on two, but I'm just thinking ahead. I already on my own home. I just paid off nineteen thousand dollars worth of truck truck loan, so that's done, and so I'm trying to figure out have no children for college an what do I do after four, your house is paid for? Yes, ok! Well, when get to for your own? Seven. Ok, so I just jumped is ok 'cause, really what you're doing you do just for everybody else listening. You would do. Retirement savings, college savings and pay off the mortgage or four hundred and fifty six? at the same time, but that's the or Priority: okay right, and once your house is paid off, then what step, seven, which is build wealth and give outrageously, and so what you're? What you're gonna do is you're not going to really do a traditional baby step for you're, just

look at retirement and go. How much can I invest anywhere in hide it from the government legally So I'm going to max out my Microsoft all of my retirement options, but I max out my 401k I'm going to max out my Roth's, I'm going to max out anything. I can to keep the government hands off of it. I'm going to max out my generosity and I'm going to enjoy some money or three things you could do with money invested, give it and live it. To be doing all three: must I got the living it part down. I don't have to wait in coaching on that, but the investing and the giving- need to be systematic for the rest of your life to where every month, every year the normal rhythm of your life is increased generosity, increased investment in increased enjoyment. Well, even part, is not an issue. I just had to learn to stop giving to the detriment of myself, but I'm please get Robert to give her since I was born so given part is never a problem, so you're, probably a spender too then actually

really really okay tried not to now it's most most most evers, most spenders giving is easy for them. It's the most of the server mean savers have to learn to give sometimes yeah this has been done. Other people like, if I see it now, I'm gonna, try to do everything under the sun to sit to meet okay. I sometimes do it I pulled my knees from stuff. I shouldn't pull money from right, so that's now here's what you just have to learn to do better. So what you do is you plan your impulses, So what I do in that situation is we have a family? You know ours is pretty advanced these days, so we have a family foundation with an annual budget and we vet out the ministries that we're going to give to the my the director of that there's, a board of family members that look over who were going to give to that year? She the man looks at them. Are they running the place? Well, other running it consistent what we're doing and we make those gifts and, in all

so in the budget of that is room for random acts of kindness, and so, if we run into a single mom needs a car Denise just get in a car, and so we've planned our impulses. We left room for the Holy Spirit to directors the the year. Not just on budget night It does it does, and I just want to let you know I'm going to be doing at Spu class at my church in December. I think you're going to be great at it. Thank you very very much. I appreciate you doing that Donna is with us in Pennsylvania, hey Donna, how are you hi but how about you better than I deserve? How can I help? I'm ok so. I've listened to your show, and I've heard you talk about the student loans and parents. Responsibility and forgive me if I get upset I was stupid

simple, but I'm trying not to compound it. So I ended up with two sons and I came out with a parent plus loan. Three hundred and sixty nine thousand dollars, oh girl and now granted one is the bio medical engineer. One is another researcher with NASA. They landed well, there around sixty around sixty five to seventy thousand. What was it wasn't like? They took anything, but still that was here at the shop sounded like they should make be, making twice that the first couple years they got to put in their okay time. So there's a stretch out now. Is there any? Is there any handshake agreement between you and these rocket scientists that they're going to repay any of this? Are you talk about the I'm- a single mom or dad does not participate in any of this or help or anyway, like that, and I took

will do this for you, but where the three musketeers here this is the three of us in this together. So they know that they need to pay it back good thing time into the parent I'm the adult. I allow happened to happen. I make around eighty five: ok, alright, I agree, you're you're, not an unwilling victim, you're, a grown lady. You signed up for this mess, but it's a mess and it's going to require village. So bring that are going to happen. Yeah the three musketeers are going to have to get together and kill Sallie Mae exactly exactly Formalin assassination squad. Believe me, if they would just let us have a decent interest rate, it's the interest rate in the compound interest. Well, it's getting out really because right now, then you shoot down. Let's pretend for a second and, I sure hope, I'm not pretending. But let's Second, we had three people

making one hundred thousand dollars a year, which is where we are twenty, four to thirty six months from today, that's three hundred thousand dollars income to deal with a Three hundred and sixty nine thousand debt is what right. So if each of you chip in live on? You know make one hundred live on fifty, I'm just using round numbers that's one hundred and fifty a year on this. It's two and a half years right, and that leads to my question sold my house recently not for the student loan dad, it was a four bedroom, but I just my kids are in other states right now, so I pay all of my dad and this is your dad thousand leftist right. But I paid off the other there's, no credit cards, there's different except right, so forty thousand left. Ok, it goes I'm trying to figure, and that's with my

like, should I leave in a nest egg for myself now, four okay, You attack the student loan. All three of you have to pretend like you are. One household and you are going to live like three college students broke people, nothing, no life. And you're going to destroy this mess because you're a option is to try to do this somewhat gradually or quote on quote more reasonably and you will never get out okay. This is too big. It's to breath. Taking it my a in my throat and it's not even my debt, give me every night. It's like, I just don't know what to do other than that, and I still want to do you get on the phone with him to the other. Two good tears, and Let's form a strategy for assassinating Sallie Mae. I mean you're going to say you- put in fifty everybody's putting in for dollars a month. That's forty! Eight thousand dollars a year off.

We are going to do that or more but those up. You know I didn't sign up to Financial suicide for two rocket scientists. And that's where I didn't understand whether or not I should split my money but in the student loan debt and keeping something problem is your name and if these two guys decide they're going to be Gubs instead of three musketeers you're, really up a creek, ok, so, I'm sure hoping they're, not groups. Open them in follow through and keep their word and take care of their mama. Now they are the best. Ok then, let's While we still have that camaraderie Le get agreement that what let's start putting some actual numbers and all three of us are saying: hey. You know it's. Permission to play. I got to ante up a nanny up everybody's going to ante up for grand a month. Ok, we're going to work extra jobs until your income makes it easier to do for grand a month 'cause. Four,

I want this. Forty eight thousand three is one hundred and fifty thousand into three hundred and sixty nine gets us out of debt into after three years. That would be amazing, well it's simple math did you do I mean divide three hundred and sixty nine by fifty thousand, it's like when I Matthew, I'm like I'm looking at seven to ten years, yeah well, you're, looking at you doing it by yourself too, and I am assigning the other two members of the three musketeers to assist in Sallie Mae's assassination- this has to occur one for all all for one baby, you're going to have to start sending all kind of three musketeer, memes back and forth, and cartoons, and have some fun. With this Sally Mae's going down. Mom's and dad's do not repeat Don's life, you don't want Don's life, don't do what Donna did. This is the Dave Ramsey Show

in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage, James, a good train are with us, hey guys. How are you doing great? Or do you guys live Fort Worth Texas? ah fun well welcome to Nashville. She coming up so you're here to do a debt free scream. How much have you paid off one hundred the four thousand dollars how long take about three years, ok good for you. And you're a range of income during that time. It is about to one hundred and twenty thousand okay, very good. You guys wait

Sorry Dave! I have to correct you. My name is Catina, I'm so sorry, no war I had to do it for everybody else. There correcting you it's right here on the screen and I just read it wrong. Actually, Kelly got it right, so there you go. Ok, don't know happened, but this time it's my fault. Thank you, alright. So what kind of debt was this? One hundred and fifty four thousand with everything yeah had a second mortgage. I had a lot of student loans. We both had car loans, we finance their phones, yeah. I think that was about it. You must have just gotten married, if Teams had a second mortgage. How did James ever second words and you didn't have one not the house before we met. Oh ok, yeah, ok and she inherited that mess. Then, when she married into it. So how long have you guys been married since two thousand and thirteen so come in about six years?

Oh I to KGB. Olaf does another big one. You leave anybody out everybody's at this party. We didn't really have any credit cards. Missed out on that one. We had cards that we paid him off every month. Yes, okay, yeah, the so still bad. Happened three years ago. Well, actually, I think God's been leading me for awhile now and in two thousand and four I started kind of a journey and I help my parents get some term life term life insurance and from there my dad passed in two thousand and eight. Oh, my gosh yeah, but luckily we had gotten him the term life, and that was really good because my mom's have been able to survive some sure. Two thousand and nine was when I heard about you and at that point I only had

been four years into that house: payment that we're talking about four years into a five year, truck loan and anyways. I didn't really think you're proud of the plan was for me and so just cut going along, but I'm at the teen in two thousand ten we got married in twenty thirteen and what in sixteen in got you started on that. Yes, that's the the big thing we actually went on a diet brought to my belt that started kind of the journey. All and actually at one point, we were needing emergency budget meeting because my belt broke, but I fixed it with a full of this is yeah. Instead of going and buying a new one, I kept you might be Gazelle intense if you hold your belt together with a zip tie or impair. Under the shirt

get my pants just drill a new hole. You zip ties it works, but it still wears it sometimes, but yeah, two thousand and sixteen we actually been on a diet and part of the journey that we talked about a lot with some other people is that we actually led Sunday School and taught the Screwtape letters an in there he's teaching his young dementor about how they try and get us with food sets lower mind in our body and so about three months after the diet. I was out working and I was thinking I need to make some more money. I was looking for his own pool business. Yes, I was looking for ways the business and I was looking for business kind of growing podcast and I think that the doors- and I was like this guy? Let's keep listening to him again and brought home to yeah completely on board, so we started

To the radio show every morning and we listen to the podcast like I really couldn't wake up without it, I'm a help me wake up in the morning and eventually started hearing. What, in to this point, I didn't really, how to hear the Holy Spirit, but what I've learned now sort of hearing him speak to me and saying y'all need to teach a class you'll need to teach. A class was like well James. We need to teach a class but our church is really far away, so we didn't know how we're going to do it. So we started looking for a new church, so did. We know that this financial journey that I meet you immediately jumped on was really a spiritual journey and God was helping us become more involved in the church and really develop asian chip with him. So for a very long time we felt like your spiritual mentor, all things work together, yeah and so we've come so long in the three years, like our relationship with God is like way more I never used to be- and I were just so happy- and this is just been spirit. Let me financials great

but we become parents since then and now we're debt free we've got a fully funded emergency. Find I'm staying at home with the baby and life is good, so amazing wow What do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt is now that you've done all of this. It was really about contentment, because the journey was so long and if I hadn't been content and didn't need new shirts or new things, I think would have been harder. But it was hard during the pregnancy that pause that snowball in not to make any progress as well. 'cause like seeing that number go down right went down instantly when you came home. Actually we were little.

He was in the Nick. You for three weeks also turned out good idea, yeah, so yeah, so no actually all of that went towards the Nick you bill. So at least we can incur any debt, but we didn't get the third at the snowball. Okay! Well, the good thing you did it that way. This turns out to be a good plan. Well, there you go so the the key for me now. I think it's just your whole plan

you know him or cloud right sure the money my have you heard his- how to heal it. That he's talking about the parable of the barren fig tree and how the guy, who owns the garden, come Sis FIG tree three years in a row and there's no for any slight cut it down and then the gardener. That's there says: wait, let's dig out the soil and we'll put good soil in and we will give it a year, and so that's what we did with your plan. You were our advocate, saying, wait, you can do this and then your your radio show was the good soil we stopped going out to eat and be in in those scenes where you're tempted to purchase a lot of stuff, and so we surrounded are so

in church we did the F p. U program, we talked about it and, while I'm at work, I can listen to your books and so we're talking about that the whole time. So it's it's that good soil, while it's being in it well done. Yeah well said thanks and that's beautiful. You guys are incredible. How do you feel amazing, right. I mean I don't know where we'd be. I have I condition where I've lost my yeah. I didn't. I still have some vision, but I've lost a lot of it and it's made it hard for me to work and so being able to be, an debt free and then also one of the pictures of James is grandparents because he received an inheritance which helped us finish off the debt and fully fund emergency fund, and now I'm able to stay at home. Emit which we wouldn't have been able to do, making one thousand dollars a month payments for my student loans.

Alone, so there in Heaven, Cheyenne, touchdown, she's home with a great grandbaby yep, and I am enjoying it. I love being a mama. I love it. You guys are fun you know, I think getting out of that is the smaller part of this whole story. Yeah, a part of it, but it's the smaller part. So it's not like you have this huge, action? One hundred and fifty four thousand dollars lighter. The journey? What it has done in your life? What you picked up along the way, She shed along the way is important part on this. Well done, you know very, very well done proud of you, proud to know you we got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you everyday millionaires be one before we know it. An outrageously generous along the way, absolutely incredible with you, yes he is screaming in another. Ok, we're not really resilient if they want to bring it back, I think we're getting out on time. So

James Anne Catena, Fort Worth TX, one hundred and fifty four thousand dollars paid off in three years making. Ninety to one hundred and twenty count it down: let Sarah debt free scream, thirty, two What wow! All that is transformation. This is the Dave Ramsey

and the guy is with us in Kansas. Thank you for having me sure. What's up so, are you I'm forty three years old, my it's been it's thirty, nine and we've been married for sixteen years now and the entire time. It's been a bit of a struggle, and this last year's a little bit more 'cause. We've done stupid things. Manage to get into debt, and We make about eighty five thousand a year after taxes, and It's doable. I just need to sitting down and get him on board, which I was getting ready to do, except his mom passed rod.

Basically it was a cancer diagnosis and within about three weeks it was all kind of rushed and she was gone. So is also now his dad. Who is seventy four is huge financial hole? They, been behind on bills, payments and we're trying to figure out what to do with him, because he does have some medical issues, about three hours from us. And there is some conversation, my brother has an older brother who is ten years, his senior that because of his dad's doctors being some closer if they move up to Kansas City area that this talk of having him over here, um

I love him to death, but I am also extremely scared that if he moved up here and lives with us, I see I see us in the whole they were in um. 'cause, we'll just take on a lot more financial responsibility and mental stress of it. I know I work from home quite a bit, or probably getting me, to be completely honest, I'm not really sure I'll manage kids survive all of those dresses at the same time, I'm trying to figure out the right time. 'cause, I know he's grieving and he has depression. I'm trying you're at the right time to bring up, you know, hey, let's, let's do Dave's plan gets let's put ourselves on. How long will it take you long ago his mom pass? It's about not even it's only been three weeks, so it's very recent, so it's

emotion? Well, let's just kind of back up a second I mean there's no um even even doing this wrong for sixteen years. Sixty four days is not going to make a difference. As long as you don't allow to get worse, and that's you acquiescing to dad moving in in the middle of all this emotion. Okay, so how old is dad? He is seventy, he had kind of cultish again. He is old. Well he's had stroke, multiple heart attacks by this is a huge, very bad short term memory issues. So one of the big concerns is like he'll forget to take his, not So I think it's you know I think, just let this sit for a minute. Ok, just to give yourself a minute.

Give your husband a minute he's grieving he's got a lot of stuff on played a lot of concerns for his day The only reason you would need to raise the subject today would be to prevent your father in law from moving in with you, and he does not need to move in with you. Okay, I yeah it's better than mine. You are you, don't you don't under it up, though? Okay, if it gets brought up, do you with it? But it's not gonna it Just let them work through their emotions and their options. Him and his brother and his dad and let the thing land. Without you having to take a stand. That is unnecessary, very possibly, which would be further alienating your husband just let it sit, pray for your husband pray for his dad. Let them have some time to heal and let

work through this. If they ask you what your opinion is you but I really wouldn't inject yourself into this, and just just let this thing work itself out over the next month or two: it's going to work itself out of the next month or two: that's my prediction I think the chances of them recommending him moving in with you is very, very low. If they do, you're going to have to say no. Marriage is not strong enough. I'm not emotionally strong enough and we're not financially strong enough to endure him being here, and so I'm not going to go along with that. We're not doing that. Because I care too much about my marriage and my future and the best way we can help him is for us to get strong over here and him coming in, is not going to do that. It's going to further weaken us we're not in a position to the only way

help, someone that's hurting is you have to be stronger than they are, and you guys aren't. That makes sense absolutely Then you start to work on your marriage and your money, and you say you know we're. Don't work she, a marriage counselor when you said Sixteen years we've been struggling where you're saying financially struggling or maritally struggling financial, we're very happy yeah and we and it's really not okay, that bad financial landfill, maybe the last four or five and then there's a marriage issue, because you said I don't think my marriage will survive him moving in that doesn't say, you've got a good, just search a bad marriage right, alright. I'm marriage can survive people moving into my house, I'm not going to let them anyway, but but it could survive it. You know, ok, so it's that's the thing so

You know when you make a statement like that you're saying things about situation out loud, it's, okay, we've! All in there- and so let him have a little time to heal and grievous his mom and work through some options for his dad when the smoke clears then it will be time to address your marriage in your money issues start seeing a marriage counselor in getting financial patient versity. We all need to have new information to have a new future. What goddess what got us here won't get us there If you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. We call that the definition of insanity don't way so and the same thing is true, I mean sharing and I you know after we've been married by ten years. We it's about four years after our bankruptcy. We had a delayed PTSD affect on two about killed each other during the bankruptcy and then suddenly about four years later we buck killed each other again, it's like it could pop back up. And that's when we landed in the marriage, counselors office and she saved our lives because

here we were gone, kill each other. I mean it was ridiculous. I mean 'cause hillbillies, don't just fight, we fight it a different level. You know So you know It's ok to need coaching on something we needed tools. We didn't, have you know some tools you don't have relational tools and money tools agreed No shame in that. That's not condemnation! That's just you and me we're on the same journey, I'm just a little further down the path is all and so yeah, but give him some room and because, if you pick a fight- it doesn't need to be fought. You damage that, then you need to just just let this feeling probably going to work itself out I'm going to give you a ninety percent probability. They do not recommend he move in with you guys, 'cause. I deep down. Your husband didn't really want to either that's my guess so. If we can help you further, you call us anytime. That's what we're here for kiddo you're going to get

this and the point is through it this. Is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is what we do. It's funny when I read an article about somebody, some little jerk, student that just got out of school writes an article about this show, and this is America's financial show, I'm thinking myself, you know we. Talk about money here, but not much We talk a lot more about just how to live your life really well, and you know applying- experience and wisdom to difficult. Situations and that's really all we're doing all day long here so we're here to help you it's that simple, if you, if you want to get out of that, I want to show you how to do that. Twenty million people done this stuff. Now I probably if you other stuff going on. You call will talk to you will help you out

and I will tell you the truth, we don't love you enough to tell you the truth. Even if you don't like it, If you don't like, it is entertainment value in that puts those are the rooms are showing the books are thanks to James Giles. Our producer Kelly Daniels are such a producer, involves grand prime day rooms in your host and we'll be back. This is James Child producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made the Dave Ramsey show one of the top five most downloaded podcast last year, get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration.

Money isn't the only thing we talk about around here, get a life changing advice on your career from my good friend and career experts can call all my Kim Coleman show. According to a recent Gallup poll, nearly seventy percent of Americans are disengaged at work. If you dread going into work every Monday morning and you're just trying to make it to the weekend, the kid Coleman show is for you, everyone has a sweet spot. Your sweet spot is at the intersection of your greatest talents and greatest passion. We will help you discover what it is. You were born to do and then we'll help you create a plan to make your dream job a reality. You matter and you have what it takes join the conversation on the CAN Coleman show here more from the Ramsey network, including the can call in show where ever you listen to podcasts, hey, it's James producer of the Dave Ramsey Show this