--On the Show:
--Nicholas Christakis, Sterling Professor of Social Natural Science at Yale University and author of Apollo's Arrow: The Profound and Enduring Impact of Coronavirus on the Way We Live, joins David to discuss the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on American society and much more. Get the book: https://amzn.to/3riWKEh
--Indistinguishable from satire, Republican Senator Tom Cotton tells Fox Host Laura Ingraham that there were no shortages of anything under Donald Trump, despite the opposite being true
--Fox News guest Lara Logan likens Dr. Anthony Fauci to Nazi doctor Josef Mengele
--In a Fox News segment, host Jon Scott and his guest attack Joe Biden for the low vaccination rate in the US, which Fox News is partially responsible for causing
--Andrew Yang appears to be upset about reaction to his answer to a question about white supremacy during our interview last week
--Fox News reporter Peter Doocy's attempted gotcha questions of Joe Biden's White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki have become boring and pedantic
--Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace plays one character on Fox News and a completely different character on CNN
--Former intelligence officer John L. Helgerson explains that giving intelligence briefings to Donald Trump was the most difficult for the CIA of any president
--The Eggman calls in to express his displeasure at David's Thanksgiving holiday break
--On the Bonus Show: Tulsi Gabbard finds proof America isn't racist, CNN host Chris Cuomo used sources to find info on brother's accusers, Texas father shoots daughter dead while hunting, much more...
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
One of them
things that is important to prevent, because once the cat is out of the bag is very difficult to get
back in is the rewriting of history, any time that we can and when it comes to the last couple of years, the pandemic, the Trump Administration etc. We ve been covering it all closely with you with no interruption, and so it gives us sort of this perspective where weaken, remember what things were like last year or two years ago, when the right tries to rewrite history for political advantage or whatever the case may be now. This is a politically biased show in the sense that
this might come as a shock to some of you, which is a problem. But this is not a news reporting show. This is a news commentary and analyses show I'm on the left, I'm a progressive, that's my perspective, but one of the things that I always try to do or try not to do depending on your perspective, is I don't want to toss the political football back and forth
on issues that are not really worthy of that, and you know that on debt and deficit, I don't play into the debt and deficit games that both Republicans and Democrats play, but Republicans play it more for sure, because they're the ones who claim to be the party of a fiscal responsibility as they define it on gas prices, for example, I've told you guys as and when it was Bush. That was president when it was Obama,
when it was Trump now under Joe Biden, the american president has very little influence over gas prices, so I dont use gas prices as something to praise or beat down a present. I these games are boring to me, were beyond them and now the issue of supply chain and shortages is taking exactly the same tone and color
its Joe Biden fault. If, as the other day when I went to the grocery store, I couldn't get my Grannie Psmith apples and I tweeted about it and got into a funny exchange with SAM Cedar about it. But I am not blaming Joe Biden for that. Much like I didn't blamed
not front for the shortages we saw earlier in the pandemic. But the right wants to play the games.
Tom. Not only is the right now blaming Joe Biden for everything,
going on in saying. Well, we have shortages, because Secretary of Transportation, PETE Buddha Judge was on paternity leave. It even led to sort of homophobic stuff about always learning to breath
feed and stuff. Like this and now republican Senator Tom caught Tom Cotton went on Lord Ingram, show last night and said we didn't have shortages under Donald Trump during the first year of the pandemic. What this is beyond parity take
listen to this in the morning now we ve had to spend in it for two years Laura. I remember inflation or supply chain shortages or labour shortages that we ve seen this year in the first year, the pandemic, what changed?
binding than the Democrats took power in January. Can you imagine, can you imagine so labour shortages? Well, that's very very silly. During the vast majority of trumps presidency during the pandemic, things were shut down. There were too many were
girls in the sense that a ton of businesses were closed, entertainment venues, movie, theatres, sporting events, many restaurants. When it came to
in house dining rather than just take out. The situation was completely different. That's why there worth so called labour shortages.
under tromp now, whether they there even really shortages. Now it I d. I think that that's actually the wrong turn for them, but that's very silly, but he sing there weren't supply chain issues. Do you guys remember toilet paper under Donald Trump? You couldn't find toilet paper when it came back and stock, there were limits. No one package per person you can't get to package is a toy paper under Trump
Was I blaming Trump for that, of course, not rid had nothing to do with Trump. There were no one. Ninety five masks available there were
Kay and ninety five masks available. People were desperate to get those surgical, masks, you couldn't get hand sanitizing couldn't find sanitizing wipes on Amazon. Your local CBS couldn't find it the lysol and other sprays. I wanted to get rubbing alcohol
all sold out everywhere. I ended up ordering a to pack from like target online or something like that. There were no can foods you go to the grocery store. Not only was the grocery store
act with lines waiting outside you couldn't find. Can soup you couldn't find black beans, you couldn't find pinto beans, you couldn't find, could be beans, you couldn't find kennel any beans. You couldn't find referred beans, you couldn't find spicy referred beans. You couldn't
and father beans, I gotta go on now, I'm big on beans, as you can tell the dry pass, the section empty knows,
the Getty Nosey, no penny known yoke. You know Pepper Delhi, no routinely linguine angel hair, Cava topic, Tangley, Attali, Fussily, macaroni, Firefly Country, Galicia,
you, couldn't vinyl lasagna, noodles, guys lasagna noodles, I was trying to make laws on you couldn't find a casket was limiting how much meat you could buy. Meat was being rationed. Folks, whole foods said you only one of each kind of
was fruit or vegetable. I wanted to packages of frozen mango. I was only allowed to buy one. There was no flower and sugar people were baking like crazy due to boredom couldn't
but ammunition with was sold out everywhere. Remember that and Tom cotton doesn't remember anything like this before this year under Joe Biden. What's, but the important thing is no,
one was blaming Trump for that back then, even people on the left, weren't saying it's trumps fault that there is no pit toilet paper, because it would be idiotic just like the other day of the girl.
Three store, I wanted my beloved Grannie Psmith apples and they were sold out. Thanksgiving probably had something to do with it. The green apple very, very strong for apple pie. Let's put that aside its natural, but Joe Biden Svelte. If anything, it's thanksgiving, small, ok, these guys have to give it up
I mean it that way. It's on us not to allow them to get away with this. It was not trumps fault, but there were shortages under Trump, and it is not Joe Biden Fault that now you know I wanted to get Quiche crusts the other day and they were sold out. I'm not blaming PETE Buddha judges, premature twins that he is adopted there. It's just it just has nothing to do
that is very silly: let's not allowed them to rewrite history. In addition, by the way, as we get into this next
or to not allowing them to rewrite the history of the pandemic and were actually get to speak to a Nicholas Restock is about this very, very important topic. We also need to do something to say guys: the trivial innovation of the holocaust and the comparisons between sing. You should get a vaccine or get it get a test every week or if your Fox NEWS get a test every day, comparing that two nazis killing Jews it's time for it to stop and we're gonna have a clip today. That is going to perfectly illuminates for you. Why Doktor Anthony thought she needs security? Why does a doctor need a security team partially it's because of what I am about to play for you. This is a clip of Leora Logan, who has gone completely off the deep and dangerously so likening Doktor Anthony found she
to the Nazi doktor Joseph Mengele of our Schmidt's concentration camp, fame. Ok, let's just listen to the clip, I mean there's! No! I don't think we need any further introduction. It's that compare very.
I to seasonal flu, and so
moment what you see on doctor
This is what people say to me that he doesn't represents,
to them. He represents Joseph Mengele Doktor Joseph Member of the Dutch, the Nazi doctor,
who did experiments on Jews during the Second World WAR and in the concentration camps, and I am talking about people all
The world are saying this big everybody sing, doktor forty people
you if you go to New Zealand.
Zealanders are going. You know over in the: U S that doctor voucher he's like Joseph Mengele, what the hell is he talking about
This is why one of the nation's top doctors, an infectious disease doktor during a pandemic. You ve got a pandemic. You ve got an infectious disease doktor. He need security. Why doesn't need security
because of stuff like this. Now for those of you who don't know much about Joseph Mengele,
He was known as the angel of death. He would perform experiments, many of which resulted in death on prisoners at the Auschwitz concentration Camp during
the Holocaust. Mengele was a member of the group of doctors who would choose who gets killed in the gas chambers. He was one of the doctors who,
Ministered the gas and Leora Logan says all over the world. People are saying people that doctor found she is like Joseph Mengele. Now I think it is. I should mention in this kind of we know too, that might this might sound like a non secular alot of people wrote to me after I played this clip on yesterday's live stream and said David. You know you gotta be careful with Leora Logan, because she she was beaten and sexually assaulted when she was covering the egyptian revolution in twenty eleven. Now, that's absolutely horrifying it is. It is
tragedy and it is unimaginable what happened to Leora Logan and, if her now being off the deepened relates to that trauma. That's also absolutely terrible. Still saying that found she is like Joseph Mengele only worsens the disastrous situation that we find ourselves in today. Leora Logan has been a purveyor of disinformation. Recently she has continually fallen for anti fa hoaxes back in May. She treated out a picture of a document that she said was the anti for battle plan which
includes that anti FA has infiltrated law enforcement as it was a total hoax sheep signal boosted. It Leora Logan, then posted a picture of a tweet supposedly coming from an anti for group.
Saying we're gonna go in terrorize white neighborhoods. It was fake, it was from a white nationalist groups, you just constantly falling for the stuff I could go on. This is not good, and so whatever Leora Logan is going through. Personally, it's a tragedy, I feel
terribly about it. It's it's unimaginable horror that she suffered and twenty eleven covering the Egyptian Revolution and what she's doing publicly in twenty twenty one
Most twenty twenty two in the media sphere is completely deplorable and she must be stopped at some point. Someone has to say this isn't responsible and she must be stopped.
let me know your thoughts. I do want to remind everybody on December fourteen, it's almost December on December fourteenth we will be doing our final David Pachmann Show Viewer town,
all of the year. This is where we are
the phone lines- and we just take call after call after call people can call in it- is going to be streaming online. Only on the Packman LIVE Youtube Channel. This is our second channel. You find it at Youtube: dot, com, PAC man, life, it's free to watch and it's free to call in okay December 14th, six p, DOT M Eastern. If you want the
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link in the podcast notes, something that the American Right wing loves doing is blue,
being the left for the problems that the right wing has actually created. This happens. I mentioned this earlier with debt and deficit, you'll have a republican present
come in blow up the deficit, accelerating the increase in the national debt and then under
two of the next democratic President's administration say. Look at this national debt, which we accelerated. The growth of
ethically during our last time, controlling the White House as one example, but right now, the most prominent example than I can think of the right saying to the left you weren't so
think fast enough. A problem we created is on vaccination. You simultaneously have the most to anti vaccine group in the United States being Trump supporting Trump voters followed by republican voters and, at the same time, you
increasingly have the story being told by that very same right wing, including rightwing media, that Joe Biden failing because not that many people have gotten vaccinated because that very same right wing media apparatus
has been attacking the vaccines, and I am going to go to a clip for you now. It is unbelievable that this is what they are saying: John Scott Fox NEWS Anchor and his guess: Hugo Girton who's, the editor in chief of the right wing publication, Washington examiner. They did a segment yesterday attacking Joe Biden, because not
of the United States has gotten vaccinated completely ignoring the reality that, for months and months and months, Fox NEWS has been running segments critical of the vaccines, Tucker Karlsson saying we believe, may be thousands tens of thousands of people could have died from the vaccine. Was it that I think, maybe on Tucker it was thousands, not tens of thousands. Others have said tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, Lord Ingram has been doing it
on and on, and on no awareness, or at least pretending not to be aware of that fact, take a look at this and yet
this year. We have lost more people in this country to Cove id
We did during the first year of the pandemic, one Donald Trump
as president, and now we have the vaccines,
Zactly. So exactly so, the pandemic exploded in March, twenty twenty, which was ten months before Donald Trump, was out of office president by
by coincidence, now has been in office for ten months, more people have died under President Biden than under President Trump and Biden inherited the vaccine, the vaccines you know
he came into office, promising that he was going to get his arms around this in a way that the previous administration had not but his, but in vaccination rate, is only fifty eight percent here considerably lower than in other places, real.
And why is that exact tell us? Why is the rate solo? What group is keeping that rate so low.
so he hasn't got his arms around it and, as I say, what this is just a way of looking like he's doing something meaningful, but in fact not managing, not managing this thing very well at all, has Biden has only gotten us to fifty eight. Now it's actually fifty nine percent vaccination. Why might that be? Well? It's
firstly, because a Fox news itself and as media matters has catalogued Fox
has undermined the vaccination campaign relentlessly running at least one
aim undermining vaccines near
every day in a six month period. Meanwhile, foxes implemented its own even more stringent health policy. Remember they require daily testing of the advancing aided rather than weekly testing, and they continue
to attack attack, attack the vaccines, and now they have the audacity to say why are more people vaccinated here, it's like saying: why aren't other people quickly putting out the fires that we are so
adding? And you say that, as you are setting more and more and more fires, this is the
organization partially responsible for not enough vaccination in the United States and its this dance that they're doing between the vaccines may be killing people getting vaccinated should be a choice, get not getting vaccinated
is? Is freedom and blah blah blah
and, on the other hand, saying listen, Joe Biden failing because not enough people have gotten vaccinated Biden was gonna, get more people vaccinated and I dont know if, as you could analyze this in a few ways you could say this is what they have calculated makes sense for the best ratings you feel
the anti backs stuff at night, and then during the day you say we were
Men, vaccines and Joe Biden hasn't gotten up people vaccinate. Maybe it's calculated in that way. Maybe it's. They want to find something for every
so for the people who want to believe Fox NEWS is not part of the problem. Well, you cuz it look there saying Joe Biden should have gotten more people vaccinated and at the same time, if you're looking for a it's, your freedom, not to give action
Did then you tune into Tucker or to Laura Ingram or to whatever you want? We knew they were going to do this when they were going and just allowing all the Anti backs conspiracy theories to be on air, but then now there also trying to play both sides of it.
and that they should be held accountable. Will they be in any serious way? I don't really know ok. Next, I want to talk about
man. I don't even know how to start this so last week I enter
Andrew Yang, a former democratic presidential candidate, former New York City may oral candidate. During that conversation, one of the topics I brought up was: who, from the right do you imagine, would want to be part of your third party movement, and do you welcome everybody from the right
Any answer the question and then, when he said everybody's welcome, I followed up- and I said, ok well what about like real extremists like white supremacist, and he gave me an answer and I believe that he sort of botched the answer and as a result, this has led to absolute chaos, including Andrea tweeting, about of course, I dont support white supremacy, and this is a manufactured controversy. Now it's not clear from his tweet, whether he's attacking me or people reacting to what he said to me, but I'm in a play.
The full section of the interview for context: you will see that I was totally genuine in my question. It was not an attack, it was not a manufactured controversy, it was not a gotcha. It was just me following up to what his answer was to my first question. So let's take a look at the original clip from last week centre
who exactly that currently consider themselves to be on the right
Andrew Yang imagine bringing into the forward party into carnival.
Make it a little more specific in a we would.
Imagine that there's lots of progressive Democrats more centrist Democrats, even some folks who really consider themselves sent
This may be in the kind of line of even like a John Mccain who, like the idea of some of them,
forms you're talking about it and that all kind of make sense to me when I think about people who believe Donald Trump won the election
accidents that the covert vaccine Magnetizer you causes autism, whatever the case may be, etc.
As you know, the package of ideas that I'm talking about one hour are those people that
even conceivably, say this forward part
The idea that Andrea proposes in a coalition with the left makes sense and number two are these, even people that you want as part of your coalition. First.
Let me say I want everyone is part of the coalition. You know, if you can vote, we can disagree on a lot of things is all to the good. If we agree on that
This dual, please now work he has done.
To turn against each other and think us so that that's one of the principles, the former party is that look. I can disagree with you on a lot of stuff, but we can make common cause on this. Then we can go back to this.
when the democracies actually set up to succeed when there you know. So let me I mean, let me ask so even I mean to to make it really specific if people
on the right say. The republican party is to centrist I'm an extreme white supremacist or something like that, but I think we need to get rid of. We need
single transferable vote, or whatever and camping you used you. You still welcome that, because you are on the same page on that one issue.
Yeah they're gonna help us transit is no more effective democracy,
like you- I don't need to know what their stance is on things that I disagree with. People have a sense of where our coming from ok but right now,
I believe that there is an existential threat to the country
as a result of the greatest designs lie in the history of the world. Ok, so his answer, which I dont think was a great answer, created a buzz and a lot of people saying while Andrea welcomes white supremacy, Sir
people taking it out of context some people just saying, while that wasn't a really great answer, so Andrew Yang ultimately took to Twitter a few days after the interview where he wrote quote, I didn't
this needed stating? But people who hold ideologies such as white supremacy that are antithetical to grace intolerance are not welcome in the forward party. Our movement for democracy reform is fighting to do.
In it are full extreme. As of now remember in the interview with me, he said that it would be fine that they would be welcome as long as they're, ok with rank choice boating. That's what he said. I didn't trick him in the same
that he followed up with another tweet, which said quote related Lee. This kind of manufactured controversy is the kind of thing that's dragging down our public discourse in distress,
us from the true issues at hand he gave about answer. Racist is not the path to enlighten me now. I didn't know whether he was accusing me of manufactured controversy or others on twitter of manufactured controversy. But in response to this I tweeted, assuming
this treaty, is a response to the question I asked during under our interview. I hope it needs no clarification that I was not attempting to manufacture controversy and asked the question completely genuinely after reading the book. Now after the interview Andrew and I spoke offer for a bit- and he said your question about white supremacy. If it actually got me thinking- and he said he hadn't
sitter tat. He came up with the answer. You see him pause when he answers the question. He didn't say it was unfair or a gotcha or manufacture controversy. We had a perfectly nice conversations, though I hope and and leaning towards he was talking about people on twitter weapon icing his answer now. That being said, I think he just did not answer the question that well. If I were him the way, I would have answered that question would have been to say David. Listen, I've denounced white supremacy many times during the last few years. It's hard to imagine too many white supremacist wanting to join a movement led by an asian guy, but I can't control to whom these principles appeal and just like any candidate might end up with anybody supporting them. I can't control that, but am I
inviting white supremacist, of course not do I think white supremacist will even be interested in this movement. Of course, that's how I would have answered the question he answered in a different way, which was to say yeah if they want rang choice voting than their welcome. So what is this ultimately really about? For me it's about who exactly from the right. Are we looking to pull in to this forward party, and we had a good conversation about that, and I don't know that necessarily more has to be said, but I'd be curious to your reaction to the entire exchange. I'm some of you have been asking me: hey David, Sir, why haven't you been showing us Peter Deuces questions during Jen Socrates,
press briefings because he still asking those attempted gotcha questions and he's failing and I'll be honest with you. The reason I haven't been playing them for you is that the questions have gotten really boring and pedantic. I'm in a play too took on a go through this exercise, I'm in a play a couple of them for you today from yesterday, but the back story on this is that from day one Fox NEWS, Rapporteur, Peter Deuces, main goal in the White House Press briefing room has been try to use some kind of got your question to either
Jen Saki look bad or Joe Biden. Look bad too then go on Fox NEWS and have a have everybody. Give him a good old, attaboy and say you did great and have the Fox news audience titillated end and excited about the questions that he's asking, and there was one point where the questions were so off the wall that they were actually funny entertain
silly, whatever their so boring. Now that I just haven't been playing them and I'll, give you some examples, and you guys tell me whether you think this is something I should be covering on the show. I understand
covering it. Now, but we haven't talked about duty for months and you're gonna see why? Because I think that these are just such boring questions, they don't really deserve our time. Let's take a quick look at the first question from yes
before July. President Biden, President travel restrictions on foreign countries were hysterical, xenophobia and fear and clear monitoring chain. Well
I would say: first took potential contacts Peter. What the present was critical of was the way that the
President put out
believe a xenophobic tweet,
the hand how he called
He called the cook ruin a virus and Anne who he directed at the present time.
I've been critical of travel
frictions. We have put those in place ourselves. We put them in place ourselves in the spring, but no he does
believe you believe we should follow the advice of health and medical experts, that's exactly what he did and putting in place these restrictions over the weekend. Now I think that the better topic is- and I already broach this- there's a really good topic here. Ok, this thing about Biden, saying travel
bans are xenophobic and the counter being. No, no, no, he said the way tromp was talking about the China Virus and China is xenophobic, but travel bans themselves. It so boring. The real question is South Africa
I did a good thing by sequencing. The new o mccrone variant, Joe Biden, calling it
any crime, but it is all mccrone the
chrome variant, alerting the world to it. By the time we learned about it, it was we knew it was all right
in a handful of other countries. I think it was like Belgium, Hong Kong
Netherlands. It's been found in Canada, ok and then, as a result of learning about this from South Africa.
travel ban was placed by a number of European Union. U S other on countries from Southern Africa, including South Africa and other countries down there, and so the real question here is: are we punishing a region of the world? Not South Africa, specifically, but some of those other countries in southern Africa that are not wealthy countries because they did
right thing and they told us what's going on when it's already spread, the cat is already out of the bag. Does that really make sense and everything I'm reading from public health experts? Is the travel bans at this point? Dont really make sense. You gotta keep testing, you gotta do whatever else, but it's everywhere at this point it doesn't really make too much more sense to block travel from some of those countries than some other countries that don't have
traveled that that's like a good topic. He wants to go what about Joe Biden and sang xenophobia and then also here, going with
question about Joe Biden not wearing the mask in a store. He was shouting in a store and analyzed face covering required and we could see him inside and his face was
well again, Peter our recommendation. Advice continues to be for people to wear masks
when they are required and establishments. I dont know what this establishment was. The present obviously failed
the hell. The advice of his health and medical team is their concerns on the present
today. Please wear your mask indoors in public settings around other people and he doesn't do that. That is going to make it harder to get people to follow on. I think you see the american people in all of you, see the present wearing a mask every time he comes out to an event, so you guys get the picture, I mean listen. Does it? Does it look not grade for, if Biden send you got to wear masks inside
and then he goes into a business and he doesn't where I'm asking is. Is that does that hurt his his argument? It probably does to somebody
but the people that are not wearing masks are already not wearing masks. They're, not gonna, say oh Biden was photographed without a masks.
in that sense. It's another one of these wastes of question wanting to create a sound bite. So listen, that's why I have not been covering the do see questions because their boring, they're, gonna pointless and their very pedantic, but if you guys want more coverage of the
you see questions. Let me know, and you can let us know what will be posting this clip to our Instagram David Pachmann show you can let us know they're in the comments. I love growing, my
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it's great to have back on the programme today Nicholas Christophe Sterling Professor of social natural science at Yale University. Also, author of the book, Apollos Arrow, the profound
an enduring impact of corona virus on the way we live now out, as of last month in paper back with a bunch of new material,
he'll still very, very accurate great to have you back on.
Thank you so much for having been able to be back on so last time. We spoke January of this year,
It was very early in the vaccine, roll out you- and I spoke a little bit about the societal impact that the pandemic had had time to that point. Maybe they're gonna get us into the conversation today. Are you surprised at the degree of partisanship
in the adoption of vaccination since you and I last spoke or is it in line with what you expected.
are the partisanship and
Sort of ideological way we approached many aspects of the agenda of the pandemic has surprised me a little bit. To be honest, I mean I I like the fact that we live in a plural democracy.
you know we do not live in a monarchy or not talk non autocracy in some kind of a society where,
one has the same opinions either because their force
two or or naturally, we live in a society with a tremendous amount of ideological diversity which I find healthy. Regardless of what part of the spectrum you are on, and one of the other things if it s a feature of our society, is that we resolve our disputes not by force of arms, but by voting. So we, when we look at how we you know, come to trace it consensus and but what's interesting to me. So so I like the fact that we have this ideological diversity. But what perplexes me is that we have we are increasingly or at least with it in the setting of a pandemic
We seem to be expressing our ideological diversity via our response, the pandemic and that's weird. In other words, if you believe in a cause or in a candidate, get a bumper sticker get alongside I mean
use a conventional means of signalling your political identity, to signal your political identity by whether you
mask or not, or by whether you get vaccinated or not strikes me is foolish. It is taking something which should be just technocratic and at just a non ideological and making it into something. That's any logical, and I think that, as a nation that is harmed is tremendously, we always had some vaccine hesitancy. Typically, that originated on the far left actually prior to this Bend Emmett. Now we have a far right group, that is, it has a lot of extreme hesitancy. We end up in the end, the and the people that are vexing, hesitant are are heterogeneous mix of people, some political motivations, others have other sort of you would say more sensible concerns like their worried. The vaccines were developed to swiftly or some have conspiracy, ideas which are easy to rebut other just false mean they me they'll, listen to you when you
but them, but their patently faster, aren't little migrant magnetic ships in the back seat, and so on are so so it's a problem that has been a problem, the politicization of our response to the problem. It is a problem not just for those individuals but also for our society
when you look at that, come by
and with mean, I think,
other issue too, to choose one other.
You talk about and then we're going to tie them together. Another thing
it's going on in a lot of the discussions of what the path forward is, are sometimes kind of inaccurate assessments of the base levels of risk prior to the pandemic, and you know in a typical, flew season you, you would see about a hundred people per day die.
the flew over the course of the year. Now it's concentrated over, flew seasons was not literally a hundred per day, but you know we're now
a thousand or so, and so we kind of trying
about how do we evaluate the level of risk that would be acceptable to quote? Go back to normal and everybody has a different metric that they might be using. Some people are saying the fact that now we need a third dose and they're talking about
fourth doses, that's making me kind of throw in the towel and say I'm going back
to normal now because otherwise it seems like I may be. Never will other folks are saying well until we
really don't need masks.
I'm going to live life one way and then, when the mask start needed, I'm going to quote go back to normal. Others are
in that case numbers, etc. What is your general assessment of the metrics by which we should be thinking?
about going back to normal and even what it means to go back to normal. At this point, I do discuss all listen in in the book in a palace aero, but but let me try to take a stab at that. I think the first thing I would do is a step back and have a
order, understanding and that people need to understand that our world has changed the something new about the world. It was not their two years ago. Is it a deadly virus? It's it's not as bad as smallpox, her bonnet play or cholera, but it's not like influenza or chicken pox. It kills. This virus kills about one percent of the people that it infects. That's a pretty serious pathogen, that's
that's a serious bars and that money was not there before and now it is their it. You can think of it like sort of radioactive rain that is making every surface toxic or something it is
It's a new feature of our environment, and I think the idea that we could just pretend it's not. There is wrong headed now. There is also some wisdom in accepting the new reality, that is to say well, the world has changed its that sucks, but let's just accepted- and I understand that point of view-
but I also think it important understand that we have over seven hundred and fifty thousand of our fellow citizens that have died in the last year and a half because of this pandemic them again
as many as a million, will ultimately die and that is it
strong loss of life. You know, hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens have died of five times, as many will be disabled by this virus that
well who survive? They don't have long or short comment. They get over there covered, but other bodies are our harm. They have. They have a pulmonary fibrosis, original insufficiency art or cardiac or neurologic, or psychiatric problems,
although the buyer, so five million Americans will have that plus ten times as many people as die, we'll be grieving. The death of a loved one, that's another ten million Americans and insult. So there's lots and lots of our fellow citizens who are going to suffer from this condition, and I think it doesnt serve as well to just a whistle by the graveyard and pretend that nothing is is happening. Something is happening and it's not a trivial thing, that's happening, and so it is right for us to consider how to cope with it now,
We are approaching the end of the media phase of the epidemic when we reach this hurt. Immunity threshold is some time in twenty twenty two that our country will get there.
but as the only from variant has illustrated, the whole world has to get there. Because now new variant are gonna, come see and could potentially cause more problems. But would you need to think about? It is unless you're a hermit or your very lucky, either you will get vaccinated with his condition or you'll be infected by the dozen your choice at some point you gotta get the vaccine or even a vaccinated or both an and getting the disease. Naturally, on vaccinating about a one percent chance of dying
getting vaccinated about a one in a million chance of dying, so it is from the vaccine. So it is, it is a no brainer but which the rational choice should be in terms of those those two alternatives and
Wait! Don't you go back to that just for clarity,
one in a million chance of dying from the vaccine kit. Yes, so that the latest I've seen as the ito, these these three
cases of my own Cardenas after the vaccine that you had to death wit, we're
one in a million coming from I've- not heard that I'm saying its lesson
but in an honest, are less than ok, yeah yeah yeah yeah the order one in a million other words what we from a public health point of view. We
we always tolerate some risk of death from back scenes right there. Yet, as you give it back, seeing you saved and thousand lives and you lose one life and that's a trade off that you make with any public policy over with how you build your roads or how you secure. The safety of your factories are always issues like there's some downside and there's some upside it and want the upside to be vastly higher than the downside which it is with that seems so. These vaccines is grown of our succeeds are exceedingly safe, as vaccines go far surpassing typical standard and and its for their far better than getting that disease, naturally, which poses a risk of death anyway. The point is that everyone is going to and either
get back stated Org at the disease and and and when that happens, then we will have reached is heard immunity threshold, which will be some time in the next few months in our society. This is assuming we don't get new
worrisome strains of the virus that can evade the vaccines or otherwise are more deadly, for example, which could make up the works of what I'm saying, but ailing so we're gonna get to that point soon, and I think that is gonna be one landmark of when we can quote returned to normal. Now we're not gonna immediately region.
to normal because think about it. This way, it's like a tsunami washes up ashore and devastate the countryside. Will eventually the water receives? That's great sea level has returned to normal, but the countryside is devastated right, there's a huge mass that needs to be cleaned up and that's a little bit of well. What's going to happen to us in a win win we pass into the intermediate phase of the pandemic. After we reached is heard immunity threshold we're going to have
millions of children that miss school millions of our fellow citizens that are disable, as we just said in tens of millions that our greening the loss of loved ones, millions of people have lost their jobs, millions of businesses that have gone out of business,
We were borrowing trillions of dollars against a future to kind of soften the blow right now we have to repay those debts. All of that is still going to affect us. You know it's not gonna, be like a son, oh just back to normal again, so that's gonna take some time as well. Anyway, I think I understand people's desire to return to normal. I understand the fatalism that says: well, what can you do the world is. Changes is awful virus, but I would say that we don't need to tolerate needless deaths. You know just because a fires raging doesn't mean you need to say well, when these fires rage many houses burned down, and what can you do anyway? No you're out there when your host prior closing down here
and you're, hoping that your house doesn't burned down, and I think those steps are prudent steps and steps we should be making we respect the pandemic is well. What are you not doing now that you were doing before the pandemic like? How have you set your level of what you do and what you don't do? I am not, as I do trust all in Tripoli vaccinated and I would incur
people to get the booster. There is some preliminary evidence that the boost will also help with the army grown variant. Yes, as well and of all, though in general vaccine efficacy will decline decline when the delta variant came. So, roughly speaking, the vaccine was that's a ninety five percent effective against the original war on strain of the virus. Maybe ninety percent, which I'm at the MRI any back scenes now. Ninety percent effective against delta, so loss of efficacy, but still a ninety percent. Effective accede is a very effective vaccine and means, if you, if you get infected with
hours at a lower your risk of death by ninety percent, let's say she's, amazing and probably will be lower than that for only one, with the existing very vaccines that the manufacturers are racing to produce new customized versions of vaccines.
We should by the way? We should welcome that. I don't think you should say all well I'll. Look at those farmer. Companies are trying to get me to take more vaccines. What we're lucky that there and make these vaccines just like tetanus. You know you could attend to shout every ten years: that's it
One thing to do so after last night:
and if I were in a series of what you're not doing at all what I'm not doing so incredibly vaccinated, which is sensible. I still where amass when I go to.
Crowded indoor environments with strangers- I am seeing friends and family in my house who I know to be vaccinated with, of course, without mass,
So I am resuming sort of small scale social interactions with known individuals, and I and I'm I'm I'm minimizing some other things like. I don't travel as much as I used to, for example, I don't you I dont go too. I do go to endure restaurants, but not as much as I used to you, I'm just sort of them. I still haven't fully. You know resumed my previous level of social interaction from prior to the pandemic. Unfortunately, and I look forward to being able to honestly I'm I'm fed up
as I find wearing a mask really tedious in reality, but I think it's a prudent precaution, young always things like on it sounds like you're you're, basically doing what I'm doing, and even with the indoor restaurants I was talking to my group and the other day. I was saying for me:
I'm not doing this because people where a mask wild
order and walk to the table, I'm just
evaluating is it a really crowded restaurant, with tables close together knowledge? If it's not, I don't really care about the masks to walk up to ordered. That seems rather now get closer young. Yet it's it's!
a brief you're! Only in the restaurant. For an hour I mean these are all the thing about life during the time of a pandemic. Is that
it's all shades of gray. These are all relative risks. There's no life with no risk. Yes, and so you know you might you going
to an indoor rock concert where people are yelling and screaming for two and a half hours with twenty thousand people is different. Yeah going with your girlfriend to a hushed tones restaurant for an hour, the different and its different. If your avian and a compromise- and if your thirty unhealthy it's different- and so I think I think people are
prepared to think that way and understand that their degrees of risk and are also willing to do their part, write them that this is the other thing that so irritating and about the Anti Baxter's. Is that, to the extent that we all get by?
so needed quickly, then we can all resume normal life more rapidly. Right, like you get our vaccination little up to eighty five percent, like the Portuguese, did
for example, you know, then we not, then we don't have to stay succeed apart anymore, would we'll go to
gotta the supermarket, and we can begin to rest
or normal life but yeah.
in a way we are
We are shooting ourselves in the foot by not avail ourselves of this technology, which, by the way, is one of the hallmarks of american science and capitalism. I mean we wanted things it upsets me is. That is that we did not bring our best game to this fight. You know that the Chinese are an authoritarian government and they have a kind of collective, his culture and they use their tools to cope with a virus. I would not be happy to live in China under the constraints that our in China, but those are the strength to Chinese, had, and they know they are effectively controlling the epidemic. Now we could not have done that in the United States, but we had a money and science.
and we invented vaccines very quickly. Why? On earth, when we use the biggest advocates of the system that debt allowed that are now saying, I don't want it. Yes, it's it's all right, it's like it's like you know, and also to little immature like what you expect. You expect that aren't your neighbours will be dying from a contagious disease. Europe
see a risk of death from a contagious disease and nothing will be asked of you right. You know really, you know we're. Gonna have to pay more taxes. We're gonna have to run. Risk of death would then have to wear masks. Vaccinated, we're gonna have to do a bunch of inconvenient things, because our world has changed and I think its image. Sure too,
fantasize, that nothing is different. Let's pause our conversation there with Nicholas Chris status. We will have the full extended
View Honour Youtube Channel at Youtube, dot com, slash the David Pachmann Shovel, take a quick break and be right back.
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L, L, F, o r m dot com, slash pachmann. The link is in the podcast notes are right: let's look at something very, very interesting yesterday
played for you. We did kind of like a review of weekend disinformation and propaganda about vaccines. Encoded yesterday and one of the cliffs I played for you was a clip of Republican, congresswoman, Nancy MACE, saying on Fox NEWS hate. You know what-
Natural immunity is better than getting vaccinated. So maybe it's a good thing. If more people just get this new alma Kron very
and that was a clip we played yesterday and what's fascinating, is
in hours of that appearance, she was on CNN saying: I'm vaccinated vaccines are great and everybody should get
fascinated, and it is an incredible trompe and move of say
anything about any issue. So that whoever can find an instance of
you sing the thing that they want to hear. You say speaking out of both sides of her mouth. So, let's review here is her clip on Fox NEWS over the weekend. Take a look
played this yesterday, as in one of the things the CDC has not done, a no no policymaker at the federal level has done so far is taken into account
natural immunity dies, and that may be what we're seeing in Florida today.
studies that I've read. Natural immunity gives you twenty seven times more protection against future covered and
action that vaccination, and so we you take all of the science into account and not selectively, choosing what science to follow when we are making policy
Decisions and you're, saying I believe, governor to Santos, is in us
The fruit of that labour today so run dissent is doing a great job. One of the worst governors
came to handling covered now.
Droll immunity gives you twenty seven times the protection it doesn't. Maybe she meant twenty seven percent. In one case, if you were recently infected versus having
Maxine tailored to earlier earlier variants. But of course, solving Cove
building immunity by letting everyone gets sick as a way to have millions and millions of people die right where we had hundreds of thousands die, which is crazy, but we would have me.
and millions dead, horribly irresponsible comment to make. What on earth is she talking about? But then she goes on CNN and she says something totally
listen to this, I ve been a proponent of vaccinations and and wearing mast. We need to be run as encouraging my district to go and get vaccinated, and when we have these various, we have these spikes to take every precaution from washing their hands to wearing the end. Ninety five or k and ninety five mask while wow this is the Trump idea, take every side of an issue, so everyone can find you sing something you like and shoes, of course, tailoring it to the audience. One message for CNN viewers and a different message for Fox NEWS: viewers. It's quite frankly like two totally different people made. It sounds like to different people
She has to tell the base she doesn't like the vaccines she skeptical. What about freedom? What about just letting natural immunity give us protection, but then she
to go to the more moderate audience on CNN and say: I've been for vaccines from the beginning. I've been for masks wherein and ninety
I've going above and beyond, and she can maintain the kind of plausible deniability that may suit her by taking but a different position for each group. This is part of the republican assault on reality. What should we be doing, because, at the end of the day we can exploit,
ain why she's doing this by saying will look at the audience on Fox and then look at the audience on CNN. But ultimately, these are conflicting statements sang
we should be looking very strongly at guilt, getting natural immunity by getting people sick and having them recover. If people get vaccinated, your chance of getting sick is lower. If you were a mask your chance of getting
his lower, so that they are not. You can't do both. They are opposites. Quite literally, there's a really good quote from the french philosopher John Paul start, who he was. He made this statement about Anti Semites, but if you replace anti semite with Trump called this or whatever it applies to
is going on right now, let's look at the quote, so he wrote never believe that anti Semites will sit. Never believe that trumpets are completely
unaware of the absurdity of their replies, they know that their remarks are frivolous open to Channel
but they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary. Who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words the anti Semites. The trumpets have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and two disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall. Silent, loftily, indicating by some free
is that the time for argument is past and that's exactly what they will do. They will say something like well: I'm not gonna split hairs with you, I'm not with this isn't about point, counterpoint, etc, etc,
you to flee accurately applies to what we are seeing right now. That was a phrase and and took to be clear because I know that then other Youtube channels will say: look at David, Pachmann Sing trumpets are like anti Semites, I'm not saying trumpets are anti Semites, although some are what I'm saying is the mechanism described by Jean Paul Sartre there of which he talked about with Anti Semites applies today,
with how these trump contests play fast and loose with what we would call the truth. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this next story, but I did want to mention it
We have a new report which indicates that Briefing Donald Trump was the most difficult of any president that the sea,
I have had to brief now anecdotally. Remember that we learned that the presidential daily briefing under Trump was reduced to one page half the page.
was an image or a chart, and then there were like two or three bullet points and check. This is so funny,
business. Insider reports briefing Donald Trump as he prepared
The White House was more difficult than briefing any other incoming president. A book published by the CIA set the publication getting to know the present.
By John held her former intelligence officer, charted different president's interactions with intelligence agencies in
hell Greece and wrote for the entire community. The trump transition was far and away the most difficult. In its historical experience, with briefing new President's Helder sins book was published by the CIA. For U S, officials, the CIA says in the book that its contents are the authors and do not reflect the position of the CIA. Ok yeah. We understand that held ricin wrote the only com
will experience to trumps transition was that of Nixon quote the only an imperfect analogue was the Nixon transition. He said after Nixon, effectively declined to work with the intelligence community and instead got his information through an intermediaries. Tromp was like Nixon, suspicious and insecure about the intelligence process, but unlike Nixon in the way he read
active rather than shut the inner intelligence community out Trump engaged with it, but attacked it publicly? Helder since new book a hungers, his book was first published in ninety six. It has been updated with each new president, so imagine expert comes in and explain something trump interrupt. You
from corrects you trump asserts. He knows more, and you were wrong from full. Publicly then attack your institution. Sometimes he will leave an attack individuals from the intelligence community. I was reading about this and I saw a good comment written by just just a random commenter summarizing trump, as quote an incurious anti into
actual narcissist, incapable or unwilling to learn information necessary to do the job so high on himself that he quoted
more than the generals and only listens
Those who manage to compliment him enough, a tactic. Several foreign leaders employed to get him to pay attention for half a second, very apt summary and he might win again. Tens of millions of people want the guy back, and that
really what should be scaring us right now. My got a very funny voicemail from the egg man yesterday on the bonus show Pat talked about his thanksgiving break, very exciting
Is it to the country of Colombia. I talked about a pretty low key thanksgiving with
of the people around me panicking about oh Micron and Egg man didn't didn't find my stories interesting. Take a lesson.
How's your vacation went to the and get stuff
Dave how's. Your vacation almost ran COMECON Comecon virus virus. On the current everybody scared, oh my god. I have
idea what you did for the House-
break Dave because all you said
oh macroeconomic round, like thirteen times I love, I hope,
It did more than his own about shallow brother
barely Emerson, that not only Shalom but happy Hanukkah egg man we do tonight is the third. Is it yet third night tonight through
candle goes on on tonight.
yeah? No, I mean I said I didn't do much and
There was just a lot of it was it was
ally was around a lot of alma crime doc. I apologise that it does not suit the egg man, but that is what it was on. Today's bonus show we will talk about tool, see Gabert new declaration,
America is not a racist country, as proven by the Ahmad Barbary verdict. We will talk about the latest CNN host Chris Cuomo
accused of using his media sources to find information about his brother, Andrew Cuomo, accusers and a Texas Father has shot his own daughter dead accidentally. We might call it negligently while hunting while hunting another
Tragedy with a gun all of those stories and more on today's sign up, a joint happened
Transcript generated on 2021-11-30.