« The David Pakman Show

7/15/21: COVID Cases Up 122%, Kremlin Docs Leak

2021-07-15 | 🔗

--On the Show:

--Robert Kuttner, Co-Founder and Co-Editor of The American Prospect magazine and chair at the Heller School for Social Policy and Management at Brandeis University, joins David to discuss economic nationalism

--COVID cases surge 122% in barely three weeks in the US, with COVID deaths now up nearly 20% as the Delta variant spreads, mostly among the unvaccinated population

--Senate Democrats will propose full federal cannabis decriminalization

--Notable discussions from the David Pakman Show subreddit, including about an anti-vaccine nurse who died of COVID, the CPAC crowd cheering low vaccination rates, and David's pen and Sharpie use

--Fox Host Pete Hegseth is confronted by his guest, Democratic Texas State Representative James Talarico, who asks Hegseth to say that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, which Hegseth refuses to do

--Leaked Kremlin papers show Vladimir Putin's plan to put Donald Trump in the White House

--Donald Trump reportedly called German Chancellor Angela Merkel a "bitch" and a "kraut," according to the forthcoming book "I Alone Can Fix It" by Washington Post reporters Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker

--A voicemail caller is not happy about our criticism of the Castro regime in Cuba, and defends the regime while blaming the United States

--On the Bonus Show: CEOs made 299 times more than average workers in 2020, the billionaire space race, every hospitalized COVID patient in LA county is not vaccinated, much more...

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I hate to have to start here today, but I have a sort of epidemiological gun to my head for a metaphorical purposes called the EL the variant and called Anti Baxter ISM, and it's just bad news, who's about this pandemic that we just can't seem to shake thanks to people refusing to get vaccinated and thanks to the highly contagious delta variant average daily cases here in the United States are a hundred and twenty two percent in just over three weeks, more than doubling in just three weeks up from their bottom of about twelve thou.
in cases a day we had gotten down to about twelve thousand cases a day by the way, still more than the ten thousand case per day mark Doktor Anthony Foundry established over a year ago, a sort of like we need to get below that say it's under control. We almost got down to that and now cases back up a hundred and twenty two percent to about twenty seven thousand a day. This is really quick and it's because of the rapidly spreading sixty percent more contagious, dealt, variant combined with too many people just choosing not to get vaccines. there's vaccines everywhere, they're coming out there you, you can't walk through a pharmacy without just stumbling over vaccines, twenty percent of the country does not interested, and the Good NEWS is and will get back to this. If you are vaccinated, You you're really well protected against the delta variant. If you were vaccinated you get the virus in one of these. What are called breakthrough? Infections
your likely not to have symptoms, and if you do have a symptomatic vaccinated case, it's likely not to be serious you're not likely to be hospitalized you're not likely to die, but nothing is perfect. Everything is Bell curve. Distribution and some vaccinated people who do everything right, we'll get sick and will die and every person who chooses not to get vaccinated makes that more likely. We wondered, though, cases are up, but will death speed because with so many people vaccinated, we might see cases, but we won't see deaths go up. We said three weeks ago. We need three weeks to answer that question, because a deaths lag cases by three weeks and sadly the answer there is yes as well. You have to look carefully because it's still a small up in terms of raw numbers, but on a percentage basis. Deaths are now up almost twenty percent
deaths per day. In the U S from covert bottomed out about a week ago, at two hundred and eighteen per day, they have take back up twenty percent two to fifty nine per day We have only fully vaccinated about half of the United States. If you look at vaccinations per day, you the idea that we are now back down to the daily vaccination levels of early January when we had almost no vaccine availability where now doing a pathetic placid weak five. two thousand doses a day We have all the vaccines, you can just walk in almost anywhere and were we doing five hundred thousand doses a day and since many of those parts of a two dose regiment were really only completing a vaccination protocol for probably about three hundred and fifty thousand people per day. Zero point, one percent of the population per day.
it's humiliating, it's pathetic and the virus spreading its, not some abstract, Oh vaccinations are down, but it has no real impact cases up a hundred and twenty two percent. That's up almost twenty percent. not just happening in the? U S, although its particularly bad here globally. Cases are now back up. Thirty, One percent from their low globally deaths are now back up three percent from their low, remember deaths of follow cases by three to four weeks, nearly half of Republicans in the United States. Just don't want the vaccine. P. and other countries are following all over themselves to try to get the limited vaccines that are available and in the United, It's nearly half a republican saved that I want to go and get it. It's horrifying stuff, Doktor Eric Total, has been a guest on the programme before posted to his twitter. There are this is in the United States with them the nation rates as low as fifteen percent one five
Newton Mazurka. Sixteen percent vaccination Douglas fifteen percent Reynolds Fifteen percent. This is on key. actionable. Now, if there is any good news will go back to something I mentioned this at the top of the segment. It is once again the reassurance that the view scenes work really well. We can't control the fact that even his back unaided people, we are more at risk. Thanks to people who refuse to get vaccinated, that we can't, we can't directly control. We can try to convince them, but we can change the math of that, but being able to get vaccinated oneself is big peace, because the latest numbers are that ninety nine percent of those who are currently hospitalized are on vaccines,
did people. So the level of protection that you can unilaterally give yourself just by going and getting got getting vaccinated is absolutely huge. It's not perfect, but it's absolutely huge and that's the reassuring thing. The hope would be. And this is depending on whether you look at Pfizer or Madonna, and you look at it. There's a lot of details in this. The hope would be Maybe, by the end of fall winter. maybe not until early twenty twenty two, the vaccine that will be available will be one that is already tailored for the delta variant. But, as we know, the more it spreads the more opportunity to mutate and to go to some new variant that the vaccine will not be tailored to. There is now talk, this lambda variant from Australia. We don't know much about it. There is the possibility that is even more contagious than delta. We don't know about the mortality rate. These are all questions and because we don't have answers to those questions. What quest
do we have an answer to right now, while the question is, how can you give yourself drastic protection and protect others? It's just you go and get vaccinated. It is that simple, Oh it's depressing, I'm not gonna lie. It is very very depressing, but it is where we are today and hopeful, de we will be able to accelerate vaccination. I dont know what it'll take at this point. I know that a third of those hey? I don't want it say if its receipt, if it receives full approval from the FDA, I will going at vaccinated one. Third of those who dont currently want the vaccine say I will get it if it gets full at full authorization, full approval from the FDA. That's coming soon, so we will soon see if we are going to see that ok Senate Democrats are a to propose Federal cannabis decriminalization for many people, one of the top issues of Joe Biden campaign. Was the folded
harmonization of cannabis, of marijuana at the federal level as a starting point for hopefully, eventual rescheduling further legalization, remember: decriminalization and legalization are two different things and we'll talk about the image of that actually on tomorrow's programme. So it's not legalization that we're talking about, but it is still a really really big deal: CNBC reporting Sir majority leader, trucks humor proposed legislation to legalise marijuana at the federal level, the Cannabis administration, an opportunity act- would remove marijuana from the controlled substances act and introduce regulations to tax Airbus products. Now even the article is not exactly right, because the proposal, four decriminalize, which is in the headlines. But then the points has legalised work. That's not actually what the proposal is. It would also expunge federal records of nonviolent cannabis offenders. This is a huge deal. This was proposed, yeah
today and the idea here is star laying the groundwork to ease legislation that, while it may not in the way that it is written disproportionately target poop bull and people of color in practice, that's what the war on drugs has done, and we know, because we ve heard from people who were involved in the creation of the current infrastructure, we have around the criminality of drugs that that was actually, All the war on drugs was a I mean I I buy, should want to say racially tinged, but that's not really strong enough. It was a racially targeted reaction to the civil rights movement that started in the fifties and and sort of made more progress during the nineties. sixties in the United States. The proposal the cannabis administration and Opportunity ACT would room
move marijuana from the controlled substances act and introduce regulations to cannabis products, the proposal would expunge federal records of nonviolent cannabis offenders and allow people serving time in federal prison importantly federal, not state for now, violent marijuana crimes to petition a court for re sentencing. The plan would also create an opportunity, trust fund from new cannon, tax revenue in order to invest in programmes for communal these most affected by the quote: old war on drugs, according to a draft of the bill now what it. What is the probability of this becoming law? The plan to decrease lies marijuana will likely face a contentious battle in this as is generally opposed by Republicans and some moderate Democrats and has not received then endorsement from President Joe Biden Shimmer will require sixty votes, including at least ten g o p votes to pass it through this
in terms of what we ve seen on legalization and decriminalization. So far so far, thirty seven states and see, have legalised medical cannabis, AIDS, the eighteen states and DC have legal Recreational use, but it is still illegal under federal law. Public polling shows that nearly so Twenty percent of Americans support legalizing. The drug, so there's a bunch of stories here, one story is, is Joe by. going to after what he talked about during his campaign, come out and endorse this particular bill As many of you know, in politics, often you campaign on supporting an idea and then what bill is put forth that would make that idea a reality. Oftentimes politics will say well that this particular bill as written has this problem has that problem and remains to be seen whether job where, where Joe Biden is going to land on this particular bill, number two. We have to increasingly over the years about how
in the United States, the policy desires of the American, people as a whole, often get made a reality, and this is this is for a number of different reasons. One and is that our elected officials are far more concerned, but if than the population at large, if you look it sort of the average political placement on the spectrum of at the federal level, senators and members of Congress and you compare their their positions on policy to those of the american people, for example. Seventy percent, what legalization and yet we don't even know that we can get sixty percent of the Senate to say yes although for this bill, that's one issue that we talked about well so there's a number of different stories here and we know that a corporations and elites, and the wealthy have out
sized influence on what actually becomes law and what the legislative priorities are relative to just the average person. One stunning example of this is, of course, after the sandy hook, school shoot. during Barack Obama's presidency, which was now Many you, I don't even know the number of years. It's way more, he feels way more recent than than it actually is. There eight hundred and eighty eight ninety percent support for, what's called universal background checks among the american people in the United States and yet Democrats who, at the time, control the White House, the House and the Senate were not able to get universal background checks made into law and there's a ton of different reasons for why that is in all of them corrosive to the idea of a representative democracy, but that's one example: the American both of you now on cannabis. Debt at minimum decriminalization is another example. As an opportunity good for trucks humor for putting forth the bill, but we will see where it actually goes on August. Sixteen that it is these sixty
speaking of it feels like yesterday, it is the sixtyth anniversary of the David Pachmann show and we will be doing a one day- huge membership, special Sixteen it can be related to the number sixteen, because it is the sixtyth anniversary of the show, that's all Monday August sixteenth, if you I would like to be notified of this historic. It's an historic and a historic opportunity to sign up for a membership just get on my use letter a David Pachmann, dot com and then Monday morning, that's Monday August. Sixteen you'll get an email telling you how to sign up. Let's take a quick break. What a pact show we have for you today one of our sponsors is sunset: lakes, C, B D, a farmer owned company shipping, super quality, c b d, directly from their farm to your door. They cut
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no long term commitment and the link is in the podcast notes. remember that our show does depend in a real way on folks like you who sign up for membership on our website and we do produce an extra entire show for our members. You can see up at join pachmann dot com and use the coupon code better, twenty one to get a discount if you so please, the the normal price, are very, very good, but I am To offer an even bigger discount with the code better, twenty one which you can use at joint pachmann, dot com, David Pachmann, show, Sub read it now. Has nearly thirty two thousand over viewers and listeners subscribed and participating in you can propose? segments for the show you can engage with other people. Please dont trawl though we do have moderators and we're trying to keep the trolling down to a very, very dull, roar, a few posts that I do want to see. You know that I found interesting a bunch of different people. Posting links to articles
but the thirty year old, anti vaccine nurse who got cove and died- and I am glad to report on it and a lot of people have asked me to talk about it, but The glee with which some people are saying she got what she does: it's really tough for me to get on board with that, because I see these people as victims. These are people who fell for science right wing. agenda it's hard to cheer that and that the true is. I would rather her still be alive, and even if you don't care about this, one individual think but the greater good we we would still all be better how many people might she have spread the virus to intervene surely dying from it, even if it was based on her decision not to get vaccinating because of her beliefs, we're all better off if she gets vaccinated doesn't get sick and doesn't risk passing it
other so whether your motivations are moral or societal or for other people or either economic, because we know the huge economic cost for me I'm just not where I know some of the audience is in a sort of like total disregard and lack of empathy for this woman, also As far as we know I mean, statistically, she probably has some loved ones who did yet vaccinated and did do everything right and now they suffer as a result of her death as well. So listen! I get it at a certain point. There's its per and all responsibility and you have to decide, and we can't force anyone to understand or accept the science about vaccines, but I'm not where some people in the audience are in terms of the total debt, guard lack of empathy and and sometimes almost glee about the fact that an anti person died. I mean that's it right. That is the tragedy right. That's what we're talking about
ninety nine percent of those who are now hospitalized are not vaccinated. It has a very real impact. But yes, an anti vaccine nurse who was only thirty years old, did get the virus and died another post related to vaccination about how the sea pack crowd over the weekend we covered see pack earlier in the week the Sea pack crowd cheered as vaccination rates, were announced to not be that high and this user, pointing out that the Republican Party is really the pro death party and saying at this point. I don't even have any long, winded explanation beyond the title. What more needs to be said, vaccination Ray start meeting Joe Biden projected goals. Yea that hurts Biden and it helps us the Republican Party, and it means a lot more people going to die needlessly, and so they cheer. That was one of the most disgusting moments of pack cheering the fact that
there are millions of people in the United States who, by choice, are choosing not to protect themselves and by extension, protect people around them from grown a virus and, as I said before, I I I'm angry at them to some degree, because it infuriating what they're doing they all also are victims of the fact that they ve fallen for stuff. That's not true. They ve fallen, for it from the Republican Party they fallen for it. From this called libertarians talking about medical freedom if that's even remotely what this is about. They fallen for the conspiracies. They are victims, doesn't mean we can't be mad at them. they are victims and I think it's important not to forget that to some degree. Lastly, some I pointed out that, what's up with David's pen and they wrote that sometimes my hands come into the frame and I have, thing in my hands and some time I've gotta sharply in my left hand and then sometimes I have a sharp iii in my right hand and then sometimes
the pen in the left hand and then all of a sudden dependence in my right. There is no Reimer reason at different points. During the show. I may make a note on my extensive legal paths that I have just offscreen us. Times I may use the sharp it across something out once I've made a statement about it on the show something I think about. There is really no Reimer reason to it and I apologize if its distracting the people, that woe and even that noise may have been distracting to people, I am not trying to do anything other than stay on track and present to you all the information that I intend to join the discussion on issues ranging from importance the bottom end about my sharp use, all the way to the top and about people who are choosing not to get vaccinated. You can find the sub read it at David, Pachmann, Dotcom, Slash, read it this next clip is true a pleasure to watch, and it is exactly what I have been recommending be done when dealing with right wing media gauge in conversation, button
at them on the record did win or lose in twenty twenty. Let's start there just so. We know who and what we're dealing with here, the daily beast reports that yeah today during an appearance on Fox NEWS. I'm sorry today before yesterday, Texas State Representative James Taylor, Rico. A democrat young guy challenged PETE Headset to tell his viewers that Donald Trump lost the twenty one presidential election to Joe Biden. Hag Seth refused to just confirm yes, Trump lost, which really proves the guy this point in trying to get him on the record about this and Tallow Rico quickly started going after Fox NEWS, He eventually demanded Hey PETE, say that from lost say it. Let's take a look at it. This is just fantastic someone in your district that can't get identification you have made a lot of money personally and you ve been resubmitted. Corporations with advertising by getting on hearing spewing lies a conspiracy theory.
two folks without us about. My is what I'm asking you to do. Tell your voters right now that don't try a lovely lacking in resolving a lie that is gazing, resolve the lie. That is democratic, voter idea, it's not even writer, but at least releasing the idea that, due to a number of irradiated twenty twenty, Where did you western down from the mountains running questions? I'm not in recital nine countries or any country will, I think, heap, I think headset hope accept their meant to say. I'm asking questions not answering them, but he's too high seems so tripped up question for you I see this out of the way people. My question is: why are you in Washington D C and not in someone he's in Washington DC, because Texas Republicans threatened Texas Democrats with a rest with a rest if didn't show up in order to prevent a quorum in order to prevent a disgusting, Texas voters suppressed bill from from passing? But as far as the clip goes, I just absolutely love that Every democratic de guest should be
doing that, every time they appear on these networks, but but oh, but David Sir they're, not brought on to talk about whether from one, so it sandbagging it's wrong for them to do. I don't care, make them kick you off. make them never invite you back. If every single democratic gas starts asking this, it's going to be very quick We put them in a really awkward position, but, like I've been saying, do this in every interview with republican officials as well when whoever on, whenever Channel interviews, a republican official ask them just for context did Donald Trump win or lose the twenty twenty election, and many of them have figured out how to play coy. Many of them, you you say, did from when the election nor did from blues the election enabled say, listen job and is the president of the United States. That's what matters, because what whether what their avoiding answering is, whether Biden should be
stunned. The election result, that's how they play coy with it, and so even asking the question the hosts still going to have to be prepared, but I think that this is important thing to do, because, at the end of the day, what the point of interviewing people when they can even be on the same page, about basic facts? Would we trust them about? any of their views on politics if It can even acknowledge who won the twenty twenty election think about it analogous easily? If we did a series on space travel and I suspect that a guest believed the earth was flat and I start the interview by saying- is the earth flatter or spherical and they won't answer. Why would I keep talking about space travel with that person and the interview they can't have? We can't even get to a simple foundational infrastructure about just now. Fundamentals of how the world works. Why would I continue talking about space travel and similarly, in political interviews, do you
We accept that Donald Trump genuinely not because of fraud or fraud, just he just lost. If you don't accept that- are we going to talk to you about your views on politics. It's a simple screening question really nicely done by James Taylor Rico. I hope I hope that this becomes a trend were democratic guests will say this to rightwing hosts and hosts will act. Ask report looking guests did trump when or did from loose answer that question before we Von, I would love to see it and will have more on this strategy, on the David Pachmann show Instagram, which you can find at David Pachmann show this is easy by nearly a hundred thousand followers on the David Pachmann show Instagram we'll take a quick break and be back with much more after this. Our sponsor pure Vp N is having a huge fourteenth anniversary sale, offering everybody in my audience subscription for under three bucks a month, pure
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and seen bars at among pack dot com, that's em! You and K, p c k, dot com and though you twenty percent off any of their products. When you use coupon code pachmann, the link is in the podcast notes. It's great to welcome. Cut nor to the programme today, who is co? Editor of the American Prospect magazine also chair at the Heller School for social policy and management at brand ice University. I really appreciate your time today, thanks for being on lead you to be with you. So I've been in sitting in the idea of economic nationalism for some time and one of the I guess we can maybe start is whether there is some inconsistency among some on the left on this issue, because I'm still d, slipping sort of might my sense of this, but there is sort of global. Again, terrorism that I see from many who, like me, described themselves as being on the left and progressives. That seems to stop.
short when it comes to well, we should have an economy that prioritizes the american worker. We should have trade deals that are best for the United States, Is there a conflict or an inconsistency? There. not necessarily- and I think it is really important to start out by defining what we made, and I think that economic nationalism means two different things that sometimes get conflated rather sloppily. So good luck, however, that, please, though, if you are a Roosevelt, progressive and you're, not a neoliberal, and you think that capitalism is predatory,
and in order to have a system that is efficient and socially just the government have to be involved big time. A democratic government have to be about big time in regulating capitalism. That means that you have to put limits on global is because, if you have what we had for the past thirty or forty years with W G out and the use of trade deals, two hundred cut the regulation of capitalism, you can't regular capitalism, I mean banks can go offshore and we don't care whether products that we import or made would slave labour. You, you know the whole litany. Shirked seller economic nationalism in one sense of the word simply means that we have to regulate capitalism, and we for better or worse, is the nation state. There is no global economy. You can regulate capitalism with the Republic of NAFTA,
you have to regulate it with the United States of America, where, where every citizen in Europe is an end to some degree, as that also just the practicality of go framework and an end just sort of the limits of what any one group can do. I mean I know we have. We have NATO, we have w in a we have these organizations, but is it get sloppy? Well, it's about sovereignty! Yeah! If you want to regulate capitalism, you you need a degree of sovereignty and the state is sovereign and there is no sovereignty globally accepted the extended check, trees, all rights, the other kind of economic nationalism, of which try where's, the extreme example or maybe Hitler's. The more extreme example. Is America first or Germany first and through the rest of the world, and so where it gets. Tricky is on the question of how you make it possible for the whole world to regulate capitalism in the interest of ordinary people and
since we don't have a global government. That means you have to have a grievance. You have to have treaties this morning's New York Times reports that the EU is going to have planet terror. If you, if you try, exports up into the EU that are made with processes and products that pollute you can have to pay a tariff. Now, that's a good kind of nationalism and by talking about doing the same thing, so the tricky part for me anyway, because I'm you know, I'm a third world guy, as well as a new dealer, help. How do you extended so that the whole world is able to regulate, predatory capitalism and, interestingly, that is what was attempted. Nineteen forty fourth Bretton Woods Conference, where the architecture that conference with John Maynard. and you gotta do over. You know they got it wrong in the treaty of Versailles enough in nineteen nineteen
where he was a junior economic embodied in the british government quit and discuss in protest and in twenty five years later he was the chair, Bretton Woods Conference. Any said we have to orchestrate the rules of the blood in the global system so that every country gets to regulate capitalism in the interests of workers in the interest of citizens. Now here's the checking fire you get down to cases. So if we think that China is predatory, we we think that China violates human rights. We think that China violates the rules, the trading system, where they subsidize at night damp and they are still intellectual property in all that stuff and sound. We're gonna happen. What we're gonna have an industrial policy and we're gonna
have a national security policy where certain technologies were not going to allow China to acquire. That seems pretty sensible to have an industrial policy. Where do you draw the line and that an industrial policy for the United States, or is that an industrial policy that the EU and all other democracies are part of, and then, if that's the guys who gets the business itself? For instance, there are three major chip companies that are not chinese. That makes state of the art chips ones in tell the other two are european Eriksson and Nokia showed you have a cartel the carve up the market, or do you say we have one set of rules for companies that play by democratic norms in and market norms and a different set of rules from China which
and play by market dorms. So where it gets tricky is around the edges. Where would you get down cases and here's Vietnam of third World country, a dictatorship, but not as nastier dictatorship? Is China and a lot of stuff gets outsource to be acknowledged by american companies, and these are very poor people who need the work? This is where it gets tricky, and so you have to have trade agreements. There are very different from the kind of trade agreements that Clinton and all bomber made that of human rights in them that have some concern for the ability of third world countries to get a foot on the ladder so that they can have decent living standards for their for their people, but not simply turning the world over international corporations. Yes, and I wanted to- I mean: let's talk a little bit about trade. If we can, because
the the the concept of free trade being, positive is rooted in some pretty traditional economic ideas of spy illustration and relative efficiencies of of producing and exporting products- and it really goes back to it- to a lot of that- that traditional economics and at the end of the day is your pointing out sometime the best way to control conditions when it comes to labour and products and imports is you bring the you bring the supply lines? Domestic ah, but at same time than your depriving, as you point out a lot of people around the world of the abyss, ready to better, selves and better better their economic situation. So how would how should we interpret all of that sort of parson? Let me address what you said about trade being efficient, and then let me respond to the second question. Yeah we're here
can you not David Ricardo, etc theory of comparative advantage? Yep trade is efficient because of specialization, ok hold on, we have known ever since Roosevelt and before really that free markets are not efficient right markets, price things, wrong markets, price, carbon wrong Lord Nicholas Jerry said. Global climate change is histories, application market failure right markets price labour wrong. Because corporations have the power to really exploit workers markets, price, all kinds of stuff wrong. They price housing, one sub question: how is it that we need a managed form of capitalism demand? Quickly, because market price things wrong, then somehow, when you cross borders all of a sudden markets, Bryce things right and the answer is dead on and this gets into power relationships.
You you want third world countries to be able to get jobs and and and gain market share, but you don't want them let's blow their workers. So let me give you an example of a trade deal that I think was a pretty good trade. There used to be something called the Multi fibre agreement. It was, Worldwide cartel protects thousand apparel and the idea was that we're gonna give every country that wants to export textile products into the United States a quota, and the economists at this is terrible. This is a key tell. This violates the free market and the other side of the argument was will appear. If you just lemonade. China will get everything because China will underprice everybody and all these other country we'll get the shortcomings that common argument, cut commonly heard commonly repeated, yet show what they did for a while this,
was in the last two years, equipment Bob right from Secretary labour and actually had some influence. They met. They made an agreement. Cambodia was the model country and the agreement was if you follow up international Labour organization norms and you get workers the right to organise. We will give you additional quota slots under the multi fibre already and so ass to that the labour movement got a foothold in Cambodia and workers actually started being paid better. It didn't hurt their market share out their market share, an awkward Republicans command in ages, blow away the whole thing. So there's a middle ground. I guess this is my punchline yeah the middle ground between absolutely free trade, which the Mirage anyway and champion economic nationalism which is a kind of negotiated trade. Where are you
have some norms where you have some standard and the standards are not just a covert waves going third world and a lot of the third world diplomats have made the argument that the West is hypocritical. The west. The talks about the international Labour Organization talks about labors, better, that's just protections and again you gotta get data cases depending on the particular rules that are negotiate it can't be protectionist or it can be in the interests of workers everywhere. So you have the courage of the Bangladesh Horrible Bangladesh fires where this is a great jerk, poor country jawed, that other workers not dine fires. Would you don't do that as a covert way of suppressing the market? you gotta get out a. I guess, that's the point. The last thing I wanted to touch on briefly relates to the corona virus pandemic. I'm we ve talked to a kind of social psychologists, all sorts of different folks about
the impact that they see. As a result, of the corona virus pandemic in and what we sort of learned learned from it when it comes to An economic nationalism perspective glow zation supply chains etc. What do you see as the big take away from the pandemic? Well, I think it's not just the pandemic. I mean the fortunate thing about the pandemic. Is that it It moved this centre stage and get people talking. So I think it good demonstrated that reliance on supply chains, a lot of which are in countries who are not necessarily our friends, is risky, economically and risky. Politically. The question is: which stop? Do we want to make in the United States? For what reasons we want to make it in the United States for industrial policy and technological leadership and jobs reasons we want to make an immediate states, for
national security reasons, and where do we draw the line but take take up solar cells? Monica was once the leader in solar, solar panels. China, basically undercut. America's pricing, saw a lot of technology there now the leader, if we take it back, try to take it. Act with industrial policy. That needs were paying more money in the short run for solar panels right which more expensive. If we're China had a bit of carbon, so it's complicated. You cannot settle this at the level of grand theory. You have to have some basic, forms, we want a positive sum game that helps american workers and also helps the third world, and then you gotta get very specific, yeah, and often I think that missing from the conversation where we here just this very
vague and general, but bring the production back home. There is very little discussion of the impact that that would have on the prices of many of the things that were talking about, as you point out with solar panels, which is a decision that could be made. I mean the decision could be made here is a list of ten areas where we believe it's worth paying more here's, how much access be reduced for the american people as a result of that, but we believe it's worth it well and by the way. This is what Japan and Korea and China all did an early stage of their economic, develop meta, accordion, economists would have said to the Japanese. Why? Why, in the world who want to invest in an auto industry or steel industry or machine to largely because you can get a cheaper from the United States and the japanese
The answer was what depends on what your time horizon if your time arrangements this year up? But if your time horizon is fifty years or a hundred years for a thousand years, we want that industry in our country, because that's good for our economic growth and for our job. So you can just take a snapshot at a point in time and look at the China price. Look at the? U S, presence at all. Well, obviously, we got a guy from China, so it really it's it's it's. It's tricky its common hated and you gotta get you gotta get into the details in the particulars without question without question, we ve been speaking with Bob Cutler, whose co editor of the american prospect also chair, at the Heller School for social policy and management at Brandeis University. I really appreciate your time today in your insights thanks so much one of
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explain dot com, slash pachmann. The link is in the podcast notes and you'll safe. I've dollars when you use the promo code, Pachmann at check out our right let's get into a breaking story- that many in the audience will appreciate, and unfortunately some in the audience will be furious- that I'm even talking about this there, Our new Kremlin papers, which appear to show Vladimir Putin's plot to put Donald Trump in the White House, important. This doesn't mean that Trump and Putin met to concoct this plan, or that tromp was directly involved. The whole point is what has and said all along for people who love to say Russia Gate Russia, gate, Russia, gate that Russia had a preference for trump because of the cow, tunisian destabilizing nature that is, presidency would have and they worked to help him
regardless of what trump new or participated in document suggests Russia, launch secret multi agency effort, to interfere in? U S, democracy go by what is said not by what you imagine. I am saying and want to refute the report's Vladimir Putin. personally authorized a secret spy agency operation to support a quote mentally unstable Donald Trump in the twenty? Sixteen? U S! Presidential election during a closed session of Russia's National Security Council according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents? The key meeting too place on January, twenty. Second, twenty! Sixteen with the rush, president. Despite chiefs and Senor Senor ministers all present they agreed a Trump Whitehouse would help secure Moscow. Strategic object, among them social turmoil in the? U S and weakening of the american President's negotiating position. How could anyone be surprised by this? Put four
the people who say David, you love to criticise Putin, Putin's, brilliant Putin's brilliant. Russia is brilliant at this, of course, save your Russia. You China and the? U S? Are the three major superpowers vying for the next decade or two of supremacy among that that group of three what could do more damage to the United States, then electing a card punish moron like Donald Trump rush a smart now, I'm not grit is, of course they tried to do this, and unfortunately, the republican electorate and subsequently enough of the electorate that voted in the general election fell for it and Trump one. It doesn't mean in Trump and Putin met to plan this. That's not how Intel since operations work. Russia's three spite these were ordered to find practical ways to support trump in,
decree appearing to bear Putin signature. These are the documents belief to now be be authenticated by this point. Tromp was the front runner republican parties, nomination race, a report prepared by Putin's Expert Department, commended Moscow use all possible forced to ensure Trump victory. This is also relevant because those saying well Putin involved, even during the primary increasingly, it looks like Trump surfaced, too top of the republican primary thanks just to the ignorance republican electorate that boats in the primary at that point at which it seemed that when I was in the commanding position, that's when Russia got the idea? Hey would be real impact? during the laughing stock that the? U S would be if Donald Trump He did Hillary Clinton, whatever your thoughts are about Hillary Clinton, you're an intelligence agencies are understood to have been aware of the documents for some months and to have carefully examined them the papers
seen by the guardian, seem to represent a serious and highly unusual leak from within the Kremlin. Let me propose something to you. Ok, this is this. Is speculation Is that what we do is an opinion show? I want to just float an idea. There seems to be agreement that these documents are legitimate and seems to be agreement that this high level leak from the Kremlin is unusual on camera going to float something here recently, Joe Biden, Vladimir Putin NET and as far as we believe earlier even more recently Joe by and Vladimir Putin spoke believed to be related to cyber attacks? I'm just asking: is it possible? Is it possible that part of the negotiation that took place was that, on the one hand, by
would resist a counter attack, shutting down a russian oil pipeline and in exchange in exchange some doc since with leak from the Kremlin, which rarely happens, which would illuminated exactly this. About Russia's preference and work to help Donald Trump idle No and the really funny part about that- is that there is idea that trumpets have about how you project power as a leader that comes from trumps, cartoonish nature you push aside the Montenegro President Prodi President, but the Prime minister, I believe president and talk in a certain way- and you say certain things about Kim Jong, good and Putnam, whatever the real way that power actually works, is u dont stomp around and scream like a child like Trump does its by directs, undisclosed calls
where you you say to a leader head this. This is how it has to be. If you want this, then you have to do that and ate it. it's just an idea, because it is unusual that such documents would leap from the Kremlin. So is there anything surprising here. Not the really is now this is this. Is it thing we believed, and that made simply logical sense and adapt? is that that is what it is now, of course. Not surprisingly, the Kremlin is responding. Dismissive Lee Putin spokesmen Dmitri Pascal The idea that russian leaders met and agreed to support trump in early two thousand, and sixteen is a great pulp fiction. The report number three thousand two hundred and four Vidi is classified as secret. It says Trump is the most promising candidate from the Kremlin's point of view, there's a psychological assessment of tromp, whose described as an impulsive, mentally unstable and unbalanced individual who suffers from an inferiority complex. There also apparent confirmation that the Kremlin possesses compromise
potentially compromising material on Trump collected. The document says from trumps earlier non official visits to Russian Federation territory. The paper referred to certain that happened during trumps trips to Moscow Security Council members are invited to find details in Appendix five. At paragraph five, the document states its unclear. What the appendix contain means it is acutely necessary to use all possible forced to facilitate his election to the post of? U S, president, so nothing surprising of core there are people who are going to say. This is also part of the lie, but veto for from This has always been. There is not going to be any Smoking, gun of trumpets, Putin, meeting anybody whose expecting that anybody who is even expecting the Russia stuff to lead to trumps removal as you can go back to Brill of twenty seventeen rice aid. That's the wrong expectation, that's not how it works. That's not that's not what this is, but the clear motivation for Russia to make the? U S a cartoonist laughing stock by helping trump
obvious, it would be weird if Russia didn't do it, because it such an obvious intelligence opportunity many countries would think of it, but wouldn't have the know how or the means to carry it out. Russia's real good at getting themselves involved in this stuff. That's the! If that's the reality one other similar story about new reporting that we have earlier this week. I told you about the fourth come book I alone can fix it by Washington posts. Reporters, Carol Leone, Egg and Philip Rucker, and during the week there has been little leaks about what is in that book. There is now a New York magazine report with more information about. What's in it and also some CNN reports, and what is in this book is absolutely and totally wild. Let's first look at some CNN published quotes the book, starting with Donald Trump talking about
the german chancellor, Angela Merkel. You know Joe Biden today is meeting with Angela Merkel and will be doing a press conference with her. My senses that binds perspective on Merkel is different than trumps Donald Trump reportedly said in the oval office, quote that Bitch Merkel as well as I know, the effing crowds and I was raised by the biggest kraut of them all crowd. Of course, a pejorative for german people from Report referring to the chancellor, as that bitch Merkel also reported in this book, General Mark Milly, was, worried about how do we protect the inauguration. And Milly reported Lee said quote: here's the deal guys, these is there not seize the Google boys there proud boys. These are the same people we fought in world war, two and then
Lastly, from CNN reporting on quotes from the book, I alone can fix it. Nancy policy of reported They sang of Trump. After January six, this guy's crazy, he's dangerous. he's a maniac. We have deep concerns the New York magazine report outlining Mark Milly, said Trump preached, quote the gospel of the furore, referring to dollar Hitler General Mark Milly, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, like an Donald Trump effort to hold on to power after the twenty twenty election to Adolf Hitler saying the president was preaching. The gospel of the future with his lies about the election being stolen according to the book ILO. can fix it by Caroline again fill a broker. The Pentagon stopped
well said shortly before the January sixth insurrection, that Trump had led the country to the brink of its own Reichstag moment, viewing him as a potential threat to the american democracy? It seems very clear: Mark Milly. Ah you know what he actually know. What's really funny about this. What was it ass, weaker the week before that we had that clip of Mark Milly, saying D. A hearing? Hey guys, listen! I'm just because you learn about critical race theory. Does mean you become some kind of cartoon woke character in Same way that Mark Milly said we are a university at the military and we want to learn about Marxism. We want to learn about communism. We want to learn about critical race theory want to understand what are the beliefs? people within the country and outside of it it's it's quite here in whatever you want to think about. Mark Milly that the fact that he's a student of History- I served him quite well in being able to look at the hit at at the past and find
situations that are analogous to what we saw under Donald Trump. The article points trumpet appointed merely to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs and twenty eighteen over the objection of Defence Secretary James Matter The army generals tenure at the top into Pentagon at the top of the Pentagon had been relatively quiet until last summer. When appeared in uniform during an infamous photo opt for Trump Lafayette Square that followed the clearing of protesters in front of the White House, Milly apologized for crime. eating a perception of the military involved in domestic politics all the book chronicles Billy's concerns with Trump dating back. To that moment, the jet Those worries grew rapidly as Trump plunged the nation into chaos following election day, seven is later merely got a call from quote an old friend with an explicit warning, trump and his allies were trying to overturn the government. Milly was confident that any attempts by Trump too high onto power would be thwarted because the meat, Terry, wouldn't go along? They may try
but they're not going to effing succeed. He told AIDS, you can't do this without the military. You can't do this without the CIA, an FBI we're the guys with the guns. Still Milly was disturbed by the sight of terms borders railing to his cause. In November, calling brown shirts in the streets Leon again, rocker wrote that merely quote believe tromp was stoking unrest, possibly in hopes of an excuse to invoke the insurrection act and call the military. Even at that high level. There was the fear that that's what Donald Trump wanted to do, a key difference between trumps, dictatorial delusions and those of Adolf Hitler Trump. Isn't it it seventies. Hitler was in his forties when the Reichstag burned Trump It still get a good run if he were re elected in twenty four right, but it is a different situation in that sense, significant significantly different age. I actually M looking forward to this book. I alone can fix it. Normally, I'm not big on these books, but this when I do plan to read, listen
Today's voicemail kind of bums me out it's about Cuba and we talk sometimes about the revolutionary left. It's a scam, of pseudo populism on the left, which sometimes blind people too. protectionism and the lack of progressive ism in authoritarianism where they end up supporting these. We hope, often military, uniform, wearing foe populists and been talking this week about how the? U S has some blame for the situation in Cuba thanks to the hypocritical and productive! U S! Embargo of Cuba! I want the embargo to be dropped. I dont want arrogant, involvement in cuban politics, and yet I cannot as a progressive support some as authoritarian as the Castro regime, which came to power in nineteen. Fifty nine handed power from brother to brother in two thousand. Eight, that's not progressive. That's just not progressing. and sadly I did get
a voice mail. It's very long I'll only play some of it from a revolutionary leftist who doesn't like my perspective, ticklish. the I'm really disappointed and use the way you are aiming Cuba politically. You leaving out of context cash goals. If not, you start out as a dictator, Lloyd dictator wanted so first of all, didn't start out as it dictator conceding that that's eventually what he became. Ok, he was a reaction that I cease. The regime finally, to the United States, corporate social oligarchy, the people in Cuba, because they were sick and tired of a lousy wages for Wanna, be served by the american Industrial me. She ok, Fidel Castro, I believe, was educated in the United States He had a movement that one out there on his face and he made
they understood the candidature of what was going on. Listen. This is how bow populist authoritarian work, the fact that Castro came to power. or in a context where there was genuine real in the streets. Dissatisfaction with cuban leadership doesn't change the fact that This is how foe populism works. It's the populist rhetoric and now thing. You know the same guys in power for forty nine years with a police state with complete total control over every aspect of the people and end of the economy. The fact that Castro replaced something bad, that those who were protesting in the fifties in Cuba did so genuinely and for good reasons, doesn't mean that we praise Fidel Castro in power since nineteen fifty nine until two thousand eight at which point he hands power to his brother. It's not progressive. I cannot support it and
this, is either it's a very similar playbook to Venezuela, because in the fifth these there were reasons to protest. Does mean we now don't critics eyes what is an authoritarian regime even though military uniforms similar between either way the Castro Green, uniform and go Chavez Nicholas Maduro in Venezuela appearing sometimes and indeed of milk essentially military dress uniforms and it's sort of d Irving to me that supposed progressives not only fall for the foe populist rhetoric, but they in fall for like that, even the military, uniform stuff doesn't raise, alarms to you the suspicion that these folks have of the military uniform when the? U S or the UK military seems too go out the window. When you see the same sort of staff being done in Cuba and Venezuela. I will never get it and again. I would at this point
done this so many times when I do these political compass type tests I am not an authoritarian leftist. I model all a libertarian leftist. So I can't as a progressive support authoritarian regimes, and it makes me sad when, when people who sometimes think of themselves as progressive support, that did it just disappointing, we have a great bonus chauffeur, today the sign of a joint action that come with you
Transcript generated on 2021-08-03.