I want to say, today with the haitian immigration crisis, this is potentially one of the first major Joe Biden tests. That is sort of going aimlessly and contributing to Joe Biden. Declining approval rating we talked about Joe Biden needs a big accomplishment to stem decline in his approval, raiding the situation, The haitian immigrants does not seem to be helping, so we're going to go through it, and I think we know it's there. There's this unfortunate thing

Every time I say, hey Guises is Biden, dropping the ball here. People angrily email me and they say David. Have you become some kind of right wing from MR whatever present Miss handle things, and it doesn't mean that I would prefer Donald Trump to be president of the United States, just sometimes president's d immediately or at all handle situations correctly, and I think this is one of those situations where, due to its complexity and due to conflicting messaging from the administration. is hurting Joe Biden, and we can talk about to what degree that's fair. So, let's start with some of the latest news here: Reuters Reporting and scenes at Haiti Airport, add two Biden: pressure over expulsions and we'll talk about what that means in a second angry scenes God at Haiti's main airport on Tuesday among migrants, sent home from a squalid, Texas Border camp. As U S, President Joe Biden face mounting pressure to stop and expulsions policy, the? U and refugee refugee chief said

may be illegal. Nearly ten thousand migrants, mainly haitian, remain in worsening conditions in the impromptu camp that sprung up under a bridge, spanning thee as it's called in the in the? U S, the Rio Grande from the tax this town Del Rio De Mexico's you that a koona in recent days. U S authority is removed at least four thousand people from the site for processing and detention centres. Some five hundred twenty three Haitians have been deported to their homeland on four flights with repayment. Station, set to continue on a regular basis. According to digest returnees He acted angrily as they stepped off flights at port AU, Prince Airport, after spending thousands of dollars on arduous voyages from the troubled caribbean nation, the South America hoping for better life in the United States. On Tuesday they found themselves back where they started. A group of men in white, tee shirts rushed back towards the plane after they disembarked with one man attempting to get back on board. Witnesses said the mine.

and broke into a restricted area of the airport as they attempt to recover passports and personal belongings, ground staff closed the door of the plane for the man could scale the steps back in tempers ran high. Exacerbated by the news, the haitian government had accepted the deportations, so there's a dead there's, an ok, article in politico, outlining the potentially problematic future of this for Joe Biden before we look at the article. I think it's important dimension. Part of the problem here is This is a very complicated situation and you simultaneously have Jen Saki, saying the treatment of the migrants is unacceptable. and you have deportations but they're saying, while the people being deported or basically joy, The men, but the women and children are staying and conserve it

they're angry either way, so I'm not pretending that there is objectively a correct solution here. That would absolve Joe Biden of any drag on his approval, but we can still acknowledged that this is a problem for Joe Biden are the political article says Biden slips into political quicksand amid haitian migrant build up the Arctic by Natasha Correctly and Laura Baron Lopez in the article says the mass of thousands of Haitians at the who s? Southern border has put the Biden, administration, the exact place, it's tried to avoid knee deep in immigration. Politics, I think, that's completely accurate in the past. Four hours, the White House has responded to images and videos of aggressive tactics used by border patrol to corral migrants by supporting an internal investigation into the matter. Would it have

done yet his figure out a solution to the crowding unsanitary issues arising in which become a makeshift encampment or stop its policy of deporting migrants upon arrival, that's left the president and his team with few supporters and allies, and we can talk about what should be done, while also recognised that, in terms of Biden, taking heat, there's almost really nothing? He could do right. You criticise the treatment of the migrants by border patrol. And the right says: oh, look, you're on the side of the illegals, rather than of law enforcement and then You do deportations and the left says well, but if we're acknowledging that these people are being treated correctly, then you just send him out back to the situation. That is it Zander in their country. The now that's also bad and that's inhumane and you dont improve

the situation at the encampment and that's inhumane, but if you do improve it than the rights as your coddling criminals as they like to say, so I get that, no matter what their we'd be criticism, and yet we can still talk about what is the correct path forward, which we wish we will do. the article in political goes on to say a coalition of more than thirty eight civil rights, an immigrant advocacy leader, sent the White House a letter calling on Biden to stop expulsion, some of whom arrived to the border community after fling violent and natural violins and natural disaster in their home country. The letter marks a final straw said: Nana GM feed executive director of the black alliance for just immigration, described the moment as an inflection point, four Biden

commitment to a humane immigration policy. A members of the President's own party, including shuck, Chuck tumor, echoed the call to end expulsions. Increasingly, they did so. I dont, while directing their ire at the White House, for its handling of the situation. Twelve. How stems I will hold a press conference calling on Biden to halt deportations. So what is it that should be done here? It's not totally clear, but its causing a problem for Joe Biden, whose approval rating has now had a new low of forty three percent. As of yesterday Cava Harris down to forty nine percent, this is the lowest approval rating that Joe Biden has Had- and this does not yet fully account for what's going on at the border with the haitian migrants, this pole ended on September. Seventy

and it has Joe Biden down to a presidency low of forty three percent. Now it is typical that president's see approval decline throughout their presidency, as we ve talked about before many people, just as soon as the president does one thing: they don't like. They say I no longer approve and its often difficult to change. that we ve seen that with many president's. At the same time, there is a question here about whether Joe Biden drops into thirties and my expectation, my prediction, was, as we saw the approval rating start to go down around the Afghanistan situation, which I agree with leaving. Afghanistan is just as a reminder that have not seen, though segments my thought was it'll get down into the low forties before it might turn around and start up. I don't think the situation in Del Rio Is-

going to help. So what should happen in know? It seems as though a sort of balanced approach here would be provide better, dishes and sanitation figure out a way to do it, the right will say you're being soft. But remember the rights been saying that, since January, twenty second before Joe Biden changed anything about what was being done at the border the right was already saying. Joe Biden is being soft so their way, they're going to say that materially, improve the sanitation situation at the border, must do there's food shortages etc. Do some kind of a temporary paws on the expulsions. Another right will say these people, here illegally, so of course, you're going to deport them at and at a certain point, this is going to to be adjudicated Jew and more serious way, but the problem is, if you don't put a pause here, You don't even allowed the opportunity to say. Is there a valid?

as for asylum here now many of us were they. Obviously there is look at the situation in Haiti. It's illegal question, but if you just immediately do the expulsions. You don't even allow the opportunity to do that. The you're not gonna, please the right, that's the reality, but at this point nobody's happy without this is being handled, and I think that the major criticism is it seems. aimless. Were it's not really clear? What is even the goal down and so we will see if, in the I think by Monday, there has to be some clear messaging and we may even get it today from Jen Saki who's going to be by the time you listen or watch today the press briefing will likely already have been held now I want to talk about the kind of the side show there, there's always with every real story and the situation and Del Rio Texas, with the haitian migrants, is

Very real story, Joe Biden, is not putting forth a sort of coherent package of what it is that should happen, and that needs to be done, but there is always a sideshow and the side show here. Fox news, Rapporteur, Peter, do see with a bizarre gotcha attempt with Jen Saki the White House Press, material yesterday focusing on has Oh Biden been to the border in his life. That's the question. This is just so pathetic, and the problem with this is that it generates the idea that these are sort of like valid questions and the right way to hold the administration accountable.

This is just gutter trap showcase. Let's take a look at the video or has present by ever to the southern border in his life. Yet I will have to get a look back in my history books and check the times he's been to the southern wiener morning, and we cannot find any record of hamlet visiting were as President Vice President Santer, her even as a concern citizen. Why would that be? I can check and see when the last time or when he may have been. But let me tell me more about your asking because this president makes a point when there are disasters in this country like wildfire or hurricane, to go and see for himself first hand what the needs are of the local community so that he can have informed he'll. Be to make policy, why does need you that what has been going on until real taxes and she was gone well? First of all, Peter. I think the situation at the border is the result

of a broken system, and the president's certainly relies on his experience. So whether it was the work he did to address. Root causes, as vice president, is efforts when he was in the Senate to support comprehensive immigration, perform a steps that, at a time or Don being done and work towards a bipartisan away. Something that certainly, we think, should be the case today. So we note the answer from June. Saki is ok but There are real questions here, as we discussed in the last segment. Your opposed to the treaty of the migrants, but at the same time you're not really improving the sanitation and food situation, but at the same time, these are at least for now, People who were here illegally, but at the same time even though you want to be more humane, you're veto of of expelling people without real analysis of the situation and it's not really clear what solution you're proposing and binds approval is declining theirs

real situation here that could develop into a very significant drag for Joe Biden, but whether Biden has been to the border, is really completely irrelevant and it also bears mentioning. I guess that even own just going to a location when you're a president does necessarily really do much. I mean remember when, after the hurricane in. I think it was. I think it was twenty seventeen when Donald Trump went to port Rico. Oh wow, he went well it's great. He shot roles of paper, towels, like basketball, and appeared completely insensitive and arguably made things worse by just bring his whole entourage and and and a team in Rio, the entire apparatus that travels with the president to a place that was try to recover, still didn't have power back on in many places, etc. So mere going is no big victory and unfortunately, this counts as like

our journalism among many on the right. This is that they see Peter, do see. Ask his questions with his. You know speak and bizarre delivery, and they say wow. He really exposed administration? No, he really didn't, and particularly in this situation, This is not a natural. You know a natural disaster. Were you going toward damage and and console victims this? Is it this an immigration situation with complex legal circumstances? What would even be the point of Joe Biden going down there, like aside from whether in general, a president needs to go somewhere in order to properly deal with the situation. In this particular case, it seems Joe Biden going down, there would admit, would it at minimum add nothing and debt first, possibly even make the situation more complicated. So it's another failed gotcha, but sadly, in this country give the lack of real

sort of awareness that so many people have about? What are the important political questions and how do we figure out problems in inside in government. This is, this is considered really powerful journalism in that's, probably why Fox NEWS keeps Peter do see in the White House Press briefing room. What do you think needs to happen on the border. With this particular situation, find me on Twitter at De Pachmann, and let me know.

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ending drone usage to Tucker Karlsson. You know, I have to admit. I completely forgot about we'll see Gabert, it's actually crazy. How you do it. pulling one to three percent, but there was a man movement that was very strongly behind her that wouldn't allow any criticism of tulsi Gabbard and said she is really the progressive in all these different stuff. She clearly was not. She has disappeared, left Congress, etc. And now all of a sudden she's back and she's criticising Joe Biden and she's defending drones and she's doing all sorts of very strange things. I might I is just don't worry about tossing Albert I find I could find her less relevant truly and it's crazy o. Actually, someone even posted this to the sub read it. They said it's crazy biggest, and is literally more progressive than she is that there is no question about it. There was, I think that the entire tells you thing was just a scam and

I am glad that there are more people now understanding that they may have fallen for a scam, but it's a very good thing that tells you has basically disappeared. Other then I guess appearing on Fox news and tweeting. Another post from me use your king verse sing torques. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, which says Cove id has kid, and about as many Americans as the nineteen eighteen to nineteen nineteen flew with the additional caviar that many people died from secondary bacterial infections during the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic, because that was that was the situate back then, and that when you account for that in a sense, a covert itself has killed more and yet we continue to see

a large portion of this population in the United States? That just doesn't want to take it seriously even to this day? And you know at some point there going to be bailed out. That's the crazy thing like most people will survive I've assuming Kova doesn't merk mutate into something, far more deadly, which is not expected to happen. Most people will survive and no matter when it happens, they will say we told you so we told you we never had to actually do anything but yeah. The flu comparison numbers now becoming a relevant and much discussed back end and, lastly, a critique of this third deferral. That's taking place to the Senate parliamentarian with Post called the most powerful off in the nation. The parliamentarian is exerting its our again writing senators, Chuck, humor and Dick Durban are beating. The drums again

the almighty, nameless overlord, simply referred to as the parliamentarian is putting a stop to all the good things the lovable Democrats want to do. There is absent. We nothing they can do it's like trying to beat. They knows with all the infinity stones. Ok seriously, I can't believe they're trying this bold face lie again. It's very clearly just an excuse to renege on there Promise David, Sir Oda posted on Twitter, not only contractual or replace the parliamentarian. Cobble Harris can overrule a parliamentarian daily posts was one of the only outlet to report this back during the fifteen dollar minimum wage fight because apparel Nobody is allowed to mention this fact. I I I I think these leeway to say it is I'm pretty sick of the parliamentarians stuff. The pie commentary and can be overruled. The parliamentarian can be replaced and the idea that this amount of power is being given to an elected individual to set the edge and of what is even going to be discussed and voted on

in the Senate, I my preference would be. I know the right will sail its authority. Look at these democratic earth orator. My preference would be overrule and replaces necessary. Get these things debated. Republicans on the record, actually opposing them on the merits. If that's what they want to do and let's hold people accountable and actually try to push for some of this stuff, and of course the cynical reaction would be. You know this is damn rats finding a way to not have to have the debates about some of these things that will split the party. And there's probably validity to that, but am disgusted with the parliamentarian stuff, and I agree, listen I on fifteen dollar minimum wage. I get the math of it right, If you, the parliamentarian- and you put me, Fifteen dollar minimum wage in the cupboard bill it doesnt pass. I get that and that's a specific situation. Its

I'll just being used as an umbrella when you You already may not have all democrats supporting the agenda so put this stuff in and let's actually get it to the floor and debate this stuff. That's my view. If we disagree with me, let me know joined the discussion David, Pachmann, Dotcom, Slash, read it. We now have video of former bright Bart propagandist and former Trump Visor, Steve Ban and who, at one point, was participating in meetings with the National Security Council, the the backwards nature of how these absolutely horrible people fifty to sixty years from now, when this era is studied, and people like Steel, banning Jared, cushioned and Stephen Miller are part of the discussion of history of the people that had influence at this point in time. Let's hope the future forgives

by Steve Ban and now has admitted that he helped plan the January six Trump rally that ultimately led to the Trump riots in order to kill the Biden presidency in the crib. That's the phrase he use we're gonna, look at a clip momentarily Trump White House. She strategy, Steve Balance, has said he spoke trump ahead of his rally on six January, discussing how to quote killed Biden Presidency in the crib shortly before approach from mob laid siege to the capital to stop the certification, President Joe Biden election victory during a boy cast on Real America's voice, Mr Ban, and played a clip from MSNBC of Washington Post Reporters Robert Costume, Robert Woodward speaking about the events that led up to the capital riot. Let's pick this up exactly that point in the broadcast talking to that night, Steve Ban and on the phone he's Italians name Man and over the world hotel. We need to kill the bite in presidency in the crib,

That was the phrase based on our reporting in that conversation yet because its legitimacy. Let's look at the economist, Paul, the economist, not the war room, not revolver. The economist. Forty two percent of the american people for two percent. American people, think the binding did not win the presidency legitimate. It killed itself, that's what this debt silly fight, the sea or fight so too so important. That's why getting in exposing to the world the Mogadishu situation in Del Rio, Texas kick yearly for all the hard working hispanic blue collar spanning since country american citizens. Let me talk about that briefly, that's actually we could do a half hour. Just on that the that the hard working working class, blue collar hispanic american citizens

there is so Steve Ban in his up is a horrible, reactionary, but Steve Bannon is part of a slice of the right that recognises, particularly States like Texas, you're, going to need to appeal to hispanic voters. If you want continue winning those states and, in fact, trumpet did ok with hispanic voters. If you look at Florida, I know Cubans are particularly right wing hispanic motors. but he did ok floored. Actually, he won Florida thanks in part to a pretty strong level of support from from cuban American Floridians Steve Ban in their that and that's why now you're, starting to see people like Bannon play Kate and sort of pay lip service to working class. American Hispanics, who are american citizens.

Is it get it it it's dangerous in the sense that if they succeed It will allow them to hold some of these states longer than than all else being equal. They otherwise might be able to so we're going to come back to that. But that's not what you might be wondering, what a y all of a sudden, Steve, Ben and about you know appealing to hispanic voters it's because he is part of a slice that recognise what's going on in that they need those vote voters in order to keep winning places like Florida, Texas, maybe even other states, just look. go with this. Illegitimate regime is doing it killed itself. Ok, we told you from the very beginning just expose it just expose it ever back down, never give up in this single implode and will say in doing so we will save our country so not denying their that he was involved and talking to Trump about that they had this plan. He is basically saying here that the plan was justified. The plan was justified because a lot of Americans never believed there, don't believe or still don't believe or were convinced that Joe Biden did,

actually when the election. The whole point here was to expose this and exposing early and to expose it from day one, so that is the best and not denying that saying. Yes, we were justified in Oregon seeing that rally the rally which eventually lead, of course, to the to the riots and by the way considered the double standard right. There's the double standard of we absolutely have to plan that Rally B. Cause Joe Biden either stole the election or was already setting aside for disaster whatever and at the same time the right as we were really antifraud. They were, they were really trumpets, but we did plan. We planned the rally, but the riders were fake and we were justified in one, but we had absolutely nothing to do with the other. Come on guys come on lasting kill it in the crib.

is weird phraseology for a supposedly antiabortion group of people, the something a little bit odd about that phrase, but maybe we won't get into that right. Now, we'll have more coverage and clips from this sub very strange ass, the band show on our instagram, which you can find at David Pachmann show on Instagram. One of our sponsors is magic spoon breakfast cereal, sweeten tasty, like the cereals I loved as a kid, but without the sugar or the key herbs every serving of magic spoon has zero grams of sugar. Only foreign at Carbs hundred many calories and packed with thirteen grams of protein perfect if you're doing Kido per if you're doing low carb great. If you're just trying to reduce excess sugar intake and because its packed with protein, it's great before or after a workout magic, spoonful. Include cocoa, fruity frosted peanut butter, blueberry and cinnamon they're, bringing back cookies and cream they're, bringing back

maple waffle you can build your own variety box and try them all magic spoon is so confident in the product. If you don't love it as much as I do, they will refund your money, no questions, ass, good, a magic spoon, dotcom slots, pachmann. The link is underneath this video and you'll get five Others off when you use the promo code pachmann at check out it's great to have back the programme. Lee Macintyre, whose a research fellow at the center for philosophy and history of science at Boston, university, also, author of the book, how to talk to a science denier conversations with flatter authors, climate deniers, and others who defy reason, it's great to have, I can only thank you for having me back When you started writing this book it, it was before covered but we ended up with this incredible situation where we are now a being held back. In fact, in our battle against this pandemic in part, because of

exactly the type of science denial that you write about in the book, and you end up actually including covert, specifically in in a chapter where it happened. Whereas I got the contract to write the book just in MID March, twenty twenty twenty, just as covert was locked guns were happening and, of course, I plan to book started the search for it even before that, and I told my editor- I wanted to save the last chapter- four covert denial needs and while there is no covered denial well underway- and so I watched code, to now be born in real time. I know after having studied sides to all these years, and king about climate denial and anti backs, and just watching it fulfil the exactly the steps that the other science deniers had laid out and it was all completely predictable. So I mean where they even start with this. I guess that the first thing would be. Maybe, let's start a little bit with the vaccine issue you know before covered you

actually had some bi partisanship on vaccine conspiracy theories. You add groups of people on the left who were sceptical of vaccines because of their scepticism of big farmer, and you had people on the right who were sceptical of some vaccines because of their scepticism. Of anything that is government authorized of the the aid etc, and there was a little bit of overlap and you'd have these measles clusters in some places that are left wing in some places that are right wing when it comes to covered in the covert vaccine. Seems they have dramatically shifted to what we would consider the political right is that perception, true and- and why is that you, exactly right before covered any backs was more a viper, I should say nonpartisan, because you know you had liberals and conservatives and yet

some ways. What happened with covered is that the Anti backs movement got taken over or let me put it this way. This was the kind of thing that the Anti Baxter's were were prepared for and it did get polarized. Of course you know Trump and the public in party or part of why it got so polarized, and then it has ended up where it is some science denial is politically polarized. Climate change covered. Some of it is not a button. That was one thing that we also saw, which was the anti backs. Movement morphine to the anti covered vaccine movement, I'm sure there is still folks who are any Baxter's in general, who were on the on the left sure by your corrected. It has been too and over now by the right wing what lie, of argument is most effective thing.

not generally now just in terms of getting people to reexamined anti signs beliefs, but just to get people vaccinated. Are the lines of argument that you believe would be most effect, Or is it really not about argument, and it's just about requirements? Well, you breathe frame that just right, it's not about argument, but it can't just be about mandates and require,

it's either, but I think there has to be something I mean mandates, I think are part of it, because this kind of denial is is telling us. But I think the one thing that I recommend in the book is that we make some efforts to actually begin to talk to one another, and it may seem that that's impossible, because the facts don't matter in this debate in a how much debate does there have to be. The problem is that this, like other forms of science to now, is not just about doubt it's about distrust and that wall of distrust has grown. When we

don't talk to one another, and so I think that the best possible thing we could do to get people to take the covert vaccine is to reach out to the people who already love and trust us and talk to them. Those are sometimes the hardest conversations, but I think that we have to have to do it and we have to be respectful. We have to be calm. We have to be empathetic in actually listened to what people's concerns are. There's a hell of a lot of dissent from she's out there right now and if it helps think of covert deniers or the vaccine hesitant how we want to think of them as victims, they're, afraid and they're. All of this information is random. They don't know what to do so, just to be, as somebody who listens to that family member friend, ask them why they believe. That's why they trust this source, not that that can actually work. Birds yeah, I mean you say, makes perfect sense, and yet I'm

aging, even some of the conversations I've had with viewers, sometimes who say, it will listen, the new one is. Hundreds of thousands of people have died from the vaccine. Ok, so that that's one that not August one worth a very popular facebook. Video started spreading and you say to some of these folks. Ok, where did you get idea well, I got it from this video. Ok will what data is the video citing and they'll say just just look at the submissions to the very system, the v, a e r s, sick, and then you say well but listen. Have you been did the website? Anybody can submit any thing. Nothing on that system is verified, there's a campaign to submit false reports to that, and then they say now I've. I believe, that its real you ve not proven that the reports are false? So then, where are you with that. I think you

a good way down the road of where were you go with that when people insist on proof, I think it's important to point out that that's an unreasonable standard, you don't ask for that standard for having you could buy, is unreasonable to ask for everything else. They haven't proven that aspirin is safe in a one hundred percent safe. I mean that's just not how science works Sciences about building up evidence and warrant for your beliefs, but it's not did active logic. It's not euclidean geometry. You can't prove that something is safe and and- and I think it's also important to point out two folks- they just as you did about the very system that its bits being gained their thinking- that these are good faith reports, but you anecdotal reports, as some of those reports are coming in from trolls

they're coming in from folks who are trying to get other people to believe false things and, of course this isn't going to convince anybody, but it's none the less important to know that the other day I read in a political fact that the appoint or institute, which is the fact checking organization, had found it general zero cases of people dying from of it back seems so there was not one credible case now that doesn't mean that it could happen. It doesn't mean that hasn't happened. It just means that there is not evidence that it has happened but you know compare that to the ridiculous numbers, sorry that are being proposed. You know I've heard people say that their tender thousand or more a hundred thousand more. Where are the way, aren't the media reporting this. Then, why are you know? You

We find it in the very system where you know you hearing a rumour from your cousin, the there these would be reported, but they're not in its yes, its face I mean the problem with that, of course is, and you know we ve. We ve done above of interviews on conspiracies em in conspiratorial thinking. It they find evidence for their conspiracy theory, no matter how flaky it becomes supportive of their rest, piracy theory if they find an since of evidence like the fact that there is not media reporting. It's part of the cover up and becomes evidence of the conspiracy theory. If there is even contradictory evidence, then that evidence has been can talked it and is not trustworthy, and I just don't know how we really deal with that on a wholesale basis. You're right is, make perfect sense, the listening one on one. It feels very sort of retail, and I dont know that it deals with the whole.

Sale problem of the millions that fall for the stuff. Then you bring up a good point here. There are whence you're talking to people who have fallen for it. It's in some sense, too late, already outdated. It's already spread right right, so I mean we should be talking more about whose behind the disinformation campaign and how the disinformation gets amplified. In writing. I concealed it more about that. If, if you want to be a player in wet, but once that's out there in the world, then you know you do have to talk to the to the deniers, and let's start with that, you

its generally a good idea not to get into a factual debate with them, because their position is not really based on facts. In the first place and right Jonathan Swift said you, you can't reason somebody out of something they didn't reason themselves into in the first place, but notice a couple of the things that you mentioned. They have to do with logic. They have to do with evidence. They have to do with the way, the people, a reasoning on the basis of evidence and so to point out. You know to a conspiracy, terrorist well. What could convince you that this conspiracy theory is wrong that right? Because if there is evidence for it, you accepted? If there's no evidence, you think that counts for it to me What? How do you know that this is the case you so you of talking and there's and in fact, good empirical evidence.

Now there was a study and a major human behaviour and twenty nineteen which showed that something called technique. Rebuttal can work against science. Deniers. All science deniers engage in the same form of toxic reasoning. They cherry pick facts. They were iron conspiracy theories. We engage in a logical reasoning, they rely on fake experts and they think science has to be perfect. and when you know that blueprint you can call them out on in a respectful way, but You don't have to get into a factual debate. You know where, but often happens with me, as somebody will send me an email and say: will you twenty things that you need to read immediately, you know- and I I don't I don't- I'm not gonna get into that debate with them, because we

are they trying to convince me if they have the evidence, they should be trying to convince the CDC, the other scientists. Now they say that's part of a conspiracy when I always do. As I point to the idea of let's talk about your reasoning, let's talk about how you're you ve come to the conclusions you come to. Why do you trust this person? You know why do you trust is video that you side, Cetera, Et Cetera, and the interesting part here is to a group of conspiracy theorists raising the issue of trust that might work for you write and eat the other thing that sometimes I mean this is when you get a couple of these conspiracy theorists together, often times their justification, they may up with the same belief but with very different justifications and getting them to realise that they don't you. agree with each other about what even is the proof like flattered has a classic one, where the explanations for why

people, come to believe it arse often conflict with each other, and it can get pretty interesting when you actually get them sambo. Here's how I came to the conclusion versus how you did and they can get like very much and yet they all ultimately agree with one another on the conclusion writing because of what they have in common, which is distrust. They have distrust of scientists, distrust of the media, distrust of government, and so he here's. The thing that I found in in this research should have been doing

If it were just about doubt, then evidence would help, because you can overcome doubt with evident scientists. Do it all the time, but distrust cannot be overcome with evidence alone. Distrust has to be managed by having the person grow, to trust you, and how do you do that? You do that through trying to build a personal relationship with him through engagement. Now that is a very fresh rating uncomfortable and difficult thing to do, and most people would rather walk away, then do that. The reason I wrote the book is to make it clear to people. But if you do that you're being a denier, because there is scientific evidence which shows that every day origin citizens like you and me, can go out and talk to science deniers use technique ray,

oh and may be changed their minds. So why are we doing more of that? Now? That's not sufficient, you know they're there again, there is a problem of the creation of this information is amplification. We ve got to do something about both of those things, but what can we do every day? Just right where we said we can talk to people who disagree with us engage their your cousin engage your uncle at thanks, giving talk to them about why your reasons for not getting the covert vaccine we can asking. We can have a conversation about that. One of the last things I wanted to talk about. There seems to be this matter problem where Similarly, in the trunk era, there is now not even I honour of agreement is the right term, but there is a lack of understanding as to what counts as an empirical claim and what is just an opinion, and,

you're very frequently, seeing, for example, when people are presented with just the the the empirical reality of, for example, whether it was really trumpets who did the from riots. They come back as eight licit it I just at my that's fine. You can believe that my belief is that it was an alpha and they they think that what these issues are issues of opinion when the really just issues. The fact is that a broader educational problem or how? Where does that stem from the problem? This is why we need to take sides to nail seriously, because it's not only about covered, and about climate change, but it has metastasize now to reality, denial, but I'd call post truth that stop the steel, the idea that the January six was Antigua. This is a denial of campaign. It's a classic denials campaign. It follows the same five trope.

Of reasoning about conspiracy theories, etc. That I gave you before right. That's why we have to get ahead of this. Are you asked exactly the right question? Where does this come from and the answer is it comes from the folks who are creating the disinformation we ve got to stop thinking of science. To now is an accident or a mistake, it's a lie. Some one is intentionally creating this information, not misinformation, but this information about to ask who quite a bit of it is from foreign intelligence services for instance, in Russia. People may not believe that, but it is out there. I didn't break into CIA headquarters to get that information. It was There are major media about March or April. It was about a one or two days story, but there was a trick.

article in the New York Times about a year and a half ago called Putin's long war against american science. There are russian troll farms that manufacture disinformation about health issues about Gmos. About her covered about anti backs because they want to undermine the United States. They want us to be at one another's throats fighting about what were providing about made done agree job over five years. The interesting next step, though, though, that this information is then picked up and amplified on social media, and it doesn't take that many, people to do it. There was a story in the MP are the other day that the sixty five percent of the Anti backs propaganda on Twitter was due to twelve people. Right, I mean so This is why we ve got a real eyes were in an information. War ended in an information as a country,

in an information war. You have to figure out whose spreading the propaganda and how its being propagated. So I think that in the Wall Street Journal Series this week, I think makes a pretty good case that Facebook is not a very good job self regulating. They know how polarizing their platform as they they understand that their helping the spread of this information and not doing much about it. The book is, of course, how to talk to a science denier conversations with flatter authors, climate deniers and others who defy reason. We ve been speaking with the books author, Lee Mcintyre LEO great having you want. I appreciate your time. Thank you. So much for having me back don't forget that the best way to support that even Pachmann, shows by becoming a member which gives you access to the daily bonus, showed the regular show with no commercials. You also get access to our entire archive of every.

Besides dating back, a really long time and plenty other awesome. Membership perks go to join pachmann dot com and use the coupon code better. Twenty one for a huge discount, join pachmann dot com, I'm gonna, give you guys a tour of the last twenty four hours of Republicans on the floor of the house and the floor of the Senate. Ok, when I've been saying saying, when I've been reminding people that the right has and in policy that this new sort of breed of trumpets doesn't even pretend to be about anything other than pr and tweeting and means I Didn't literally expect that there would be a day word. They just hold up printouts of means on the floor of the house and even on the floor of the Senate, but that day came yesterday we're going to look at some examples here and we're going to talk about.

the real underlying problem here, because this is really a societal problem. If this stuff didn't work to get people elected, if it was laughable, wait hold on you just do tweets in me. Obviously we are not voting for you. If that was the case, then this stuff, wouldn't it is because they never would have made it to the floor of the house. What am I talking about? What let's just start with Marjorie Taylor, Green MOSS, retailer green spent the day yesterday on the floor of the house with oversized printouts of different means and talking about how the means are real and that this is completely beyond parity. So here's the first one. This is a meme where There is a I can't describing means for the audio audience. This one is a too frame mean that says. Let's see who this really is, and it's a prisoner with a bow

fine fold, that's his green new deal on it and then, when they remove the blindfold, I guess that's the hammer and sickle of of Communist China. You don't need to check. No your me, my guess. Here's Marge retailer green. This is a simple mean you would find on the internet, but this name is very real. The green new deal, surprise is serves China and China. Only you can go ahead and put number one up. So today talking about the green new deal and the all out war on the men, the they're doing you know I would respect a sort of like Powerpoint presentation. If it was substantive, like when senators and members of Congress pull out charts and graphs of different data, they understand it and they understand how these that dear different out economic elements related all other. That's fine. There they're putting a pictures. It's like this is the house equivalent of trumps daily presidential daily briefing, instead of being

many pages, they cut down to a couple pages, still wouldn't read it so they cut. It to one page, and then they cut it down to a page, half of which was like a chart and then two or three bullet points. This is the happy, though, the floor of the house. Version of that, a Marjorie Taylor, Green, continued, then here is the next meme. Here is one which says I own Joe Biden and now I own Afghanistan's lithium deposits in the idea is that its China loving the fact that Biden got out of Afghanistan. I guess Marjorie tailoring wanted to stay there, even though Trump I believe and she's a trumpet, because it's all incoherent. I find it pretty shocking that people actually think that members of Congress in their legislation is actually going to control the earth's temperature or ten bucks So this is now going on about climate change and again it just Marjorie. Taylor Green on the floor of the house with means here is

bonus meme from the Senate, this was also yesterday this senator Joanie Ernst also kind of of same vein lie less cartoonish than Marjorie Taylor, Green, but almost is ignorant. She also puts up a meme, and she says this is a popular meme. I've actually never seen this one. This one seems to be their almost like. Are those go fish cards or who know cards that say trillion and, at one point nine trillion for the stimulus bill. One point you truly: I guess it's making fun of democratic spending or something that is so now, and then she puts up another one that is just all it's all pathetic. Real reminds me this popular meme. guy playing. Oh now, ok, it was you know, and it's just about democratic spending,

It's it's not an exaggeration Republicans in House and Senate yesterday. Their arguments and their press stations. Are they put up, printouts of means, and they see see guys. This is what Democrats or doing did these are their critiques. This is the bigger issue. Of the modification of the republican Party. We ve talked about increasingly absent of policy. They are literally showing means. It proves that point now, just a couple other samples just of the low level of discourse. These aren't means. But this is just the idiocy that we ve come to to see on a regular basis. Here's congressmen MIKE Lee. He is taking issue with the fact that when the CDC counts causes of death. They don't include abortion as a cause of death. Why? With be well, because abortion is not considered death like dying from covert there. That's it that's why? Ok, here's mightily states

want to go over this because I think sometimes we become disillusioned with which what is actually happening, lawyer the National Centre for health statistics of the Centre for Disease Control and prevention, reports on the leading causes of death in United States, but does not include abortion among their list of causes of death. right, that's his gripe, so this is again another one of these issues of Why are we even talking about this and people watch it, and I think this is valid political discourse and when we ve talked about the sequelae of Trump ISM, whether Trump goes away comes back or does it one of the things we have to contend with and we're seeing it I mean these are examples of it are that the coarsening of discourse under Donald Trump has made it so that these types the presentations on the floor of the House and Senate means and why it doesn't abortion count as a cause of death? All of this stuff, it's considered valid politicking. Fur

many Republicans, even though you and I hopefully see it for what it is, which is meaningless, garbage just one more example. Here: here's trompe in Congresswoman Lauren BO, Bert she's, making the point that victims of rape need access to guns, not access to abortions. Ok, then line of her tail rape victims need abortions wrong. They need love, they need support. They need safety and healing they needed a black nineteen when it happened right and this, of course, the context is the situation with the dreamily, restrictive abortion law passed in Texas and the debate that's been generated over that. How do we recover from this, and what I mean by that is how do you turn around after five years of the political discourse being year?

fake news where's, my african american what about injecting they hitting the body with light and heat and all of these always different Pocahontas and all of us stuff. It's now just the Republican Party, that's what it is, and one of the thing it would be if both sides were having substantive adult discussions about important issues, and then we focus on. substance. We don't even have that because the right is holding up means on the floor of the House of Representatives and the Senate, and talking about abortion should be listed as a cause of death and this type of I dont know how we turn it around and made me a hopefully to someone. we are conversationally. Mcintyre was informative in terms of how to de call to fight It's going to be a real real big uphill battle wanted just not spend a lot I'm on this. But I do want to show you one other clip a bunch of people wrote in asking me to talk about this one. A former Trump National Security adviser, Michael Flynn, suggests that

there is going to be sort of like a secret vaccination done of people by putting the vaccine and Sal addressing. He said he that our friend John Amato, over a crooks in liars, wrote this up Michael Flynn is insane says back Venus in solid dressing. Microphones latest crazy, deep state spiking yourselves, addressing with covert vaccine this was on. I don't even know what showed this was on to be some kind of like bogus, medic oh and financial consultation type, show the ads are on the screen: say something about protect your health with heard for help from Sherwood that TV and me in M D. Vladimir lingo, empty, protect your wealth with help from Andrews or Kenny Did I don't even know where these words even find these shows, I don't know, but here is Michael Flint, talking about? I guess some kind of deep state putting vaccinate vaccines in solid Russell

does drinking the vaccine even do the same thing as injecting it? It all sounds very stupid, but here's Michael fled and you'll notice, so remote member former national Security adviser Michael Flynn, this was the top national security officials Country for a short period of time, he's also wearing shirt that has his own name on it. It's as Flynn, it's weird I mean I gotta put somebody sent me. A thing is what we are talking about: putting the vaccine into Savage, arresting or salads zenith. Yes, it is. and I'm gonna pick into myself This is a bizarre. Well right is definitely the bizarre rope so There's the seriousness of what this. What professional realize he was doing wrong, and and he's now. You know he's found a new way and under there the laugh ability on the other stream, that people are, I mean these people are seriously thinking about how to impose their will on us

in our society and its and it's going to be rational choice. So there is no plan to put the vaccine into salad dressing up, but also In the other I mean at another this is really even relevant but the people. We would need to trick into taking the vaccine. are probably more likely to have it in a hot dog than in a salad. If you understand what I'm saying so like, if this was your approach, I'd be looking at, maybe injecting the vaccine into a frankfurter right that, rather than mixing it into salad dressing judge just might take. I think the folks are more likely to reach for the dog than the salad, but that's pro we probably a different issue. There is no such plan, of course, and it's completely absurd and who even watches these shows like there's. A lot of these shows that are either religiously oriented financial advice or release

justly oriented medical advice or just quackery, and they seem to get donations I don't know who is watching and who would do who would be watching in a serious way like we monitor these shows in a sort of Cyril sends her leg out like the horror of it, but somebody must be contributing to this stuff and also, if they get Michael Flint on. Maybe we can get Michael Flint on right we know that these shows don't seem to have much of an audience, maybe more The fund would be willing to appear with me. I would be glad to speak to him, think that would be absolutely grape. We have of smell number that you can call any time of day. That number is too one: nine to David P, David P, a car, are wondering about whether I'll be dipping. My toes further into financial youtube. Take a listen to those. I noticed what hold on a second, let's play from the beginning place having the Heaven on earth. he gave a huge fan of the show. I noticed you, ve been having the cabin and your show a couple times. Reason

and I actually got some of financial friends too enjoy your shower, because it needs Heaven your show so wondering if you're gonna, possibly like grandstand or anyone else in the foreign quote. Financial Egypt community. Thank you. I would be glad to interview Graham stuff- and I think, he's doing interesting stuff on on Youtube. As many of you know, my formal training is really in finance, and you know about my masters degree. My mba, my concentration was financial planning. It's an area of personal. dressed. I always hesitate to give advice, and I try to make clear whenever we talk about personal, find I'm not giving advice on the show, but if there were to be like imagine that there was no more political, David Pachmann show or that I started a second project. It would almost sir,

Lee be in the finance space, so yeah. I would be very interested in speaking with Graham Stephan or being on with him and talking about the sort of overlap between personal finance and politics and that there really is a lot they're, not Sure if people in my audience would be interested, but maybe there's a new audience to be found. There are right on today's bonus. Show me Mcconnell in the Republican Party are saying we can't play games with. We can't play games with the country's economic situation or finances or the debt ceiling or whatever. Meanwhile, they are playing games with the debt ceiling. so we're going to talk about that incredible hypocrisy, even though talking mostly about better or roared running against Gregg, Abbot in Texas, math, Mokanna he according to polling might be a viable candidate. The actor Matthew Economy, but we will talk about, is better. The right choice. And then we will also talk about Mcdonalds phasing out those plastic toys from happy meals because they want to be more green. A when

was the last time I was that Mcdonald I will reveal it on today's bonus, show sign up it, goin pachmann dot com and get instant access. The members only gonna show Ceuta