« The David Pakman Show

9/30/21: Auditors Turn on Each Other As YouTube Bans Anti-Vax

2021-09-30 | 🔗

--On the Show:

--Isaac Bogoch, infectious diseases physician and scientist based out of the University of Toronto and Toronto General Hospital, joins David to discuss the latest COVID pandemic updates, including vaccination, case and death rates, and much more

--YouTube fully bans all content considered to be "anti-vaccine"

--Arizona Trump audit supporters turn on each other after the total flop of the audit proving Joe Biden actually won by even more than originally reported

--Congressional hearing with Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley goes off the rails as Matt Gaetz and other Republicans humiliate themselves

--Fox News uses deceptive charts and graphs multiple times this week to make bogus political points

--Donald Trump is ahead of Joe Biden in a hypothetical 2024 faceoff for President in a notoriously unreliable Rasmussen Reports poll, but the gist of the poll is likely accurate

--Donald Trump receives a total softball interview from OAN's Dan Ball, but still manages to come out looking like a fool

--Voicemail caller has done his research and figured out the origins of the COVID pandemic

--On the Bonus Show: Los Angeles moves towards banning unvaccinated from most businesses, Biden admin will try again to end Trump's "remain in Mexico" policy, obesity rates rise during pandemic, much more...

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. We're going to start today with what many of you emailed me about with very different opinions, this is the news that you tube has now officially banned all anti vaccine content and even some perennial anti vaccine content creators- and some of you emailing me saying this is absolutely horrifying, even though I am pro vaccine, many of you said allowing you tube to be the arbiter arbiter of what counts, is an anti vaccine or not is very problematic others to me and said David is: is this really a big deal or not
and the answer is that this is a major content decision, but what's being missed by many of the articles, and many of the people emailing me is that it's not much of a change to Youtube's content policy around anti vaccine content. This this has been ninety percent- the policy for the last many many months anyway. and is actually represents a pretty minor change. So, let's look at some of the reporting on this Reuters writing you two blocks all anti vaccine content. Tube, will block all anti vaccine content. Moving beyond its ban on false information about the covert vaccines to include content that contains misinformation about other approved vaccines it set in a blog post on Wednesday exam of content that won't be allowed on Youtube include claims that the flu vaccine causes infertility and that M M are shot the measles months. Rubella shot can cause autism the online video company owned by alphabet. Google is
so banning channels associated with several prominent anti vaccine activists, including Joe Robert F Kennedy, Junior and Joseph more cola, a Youtube. Experts and said the move, comes as Youtube intact. Giants like Facebook and Twitter have been criticised for not doing enough to stop the spread of false information, but even Youtube takes a tougher stance. It faces backlash around the world. Russian state, backed broadcaster, are tease. German language channels were deleted from Youtube. The company said the channels breached its covert misinformation policy. Russia called the move, unprecedented information, aggression and threatened to block you tube, now. I have to tell you guys this barely a change in policy from what's been the case for a long time, and there is also some confusion about
banning content, verses, democratizing content. Let's look at one more article and then we're gonna get into those details. and be see. Article says Youtube, cracks down on anti vaccine videos, bans major accounts, Youtube announced a total ban Wednesday on vaccine misinformation and determination of accounts of several prominent anti vaccine influencers. I already named them Joseph Mccullough, Robert F Kennedy Junior, then policy was crafted as the company began to see false claims about covert nineteen vaccines spill over into misinformation. About vaccines in general you tube already had a policy against covert vaccine misinformation, but the new ban against broader vaccine misinformation includes content that falsely claims approved accedes or dangerous or ineffective, including the false belief that scenes cause autism or cancer. So the most important line in all of these articles is that
policy already existed with relation to covert vaccines. The this is only a tweak. that now, more general anti vaccine stuff, will also be banned. Ninety nine percent of the quota problem Static content over the last eight nine since the covert vaccines have been out it's been related specifically to covert vaccines, and that has already been banned, whether its enforced and police. In every case. On such a lot, platform is a different question, but what most people are reacting to is react as if this is about coal, vaccines, stuff specifically covert. Vaccine disinformation has already been banned this is now expanding it two percent to say in general, covert vaccine misinformation not covered ragged vaccine misinformation is now going to be banned as well. Also,
the vast majority of Youtube content is allowed but some of it is not monetize able and that's another aspect of this that many people are being confused by. There is a whole bunch of stuff. That is, what we would call edgy in in a vote for a better term we is allowed on Youtube the Van Majority of content is allowed on Youtube, but you can't monetize all of it, and that applies to me as well. There's stuff, that's too edgy that I cover related to war, conflict, terrorism, that's not monetize able, but its aloud, and the vast majority of even kind of like edgy content is, allowed, but necessarily monetize able. So I have to tell you I this is mostly much ado about nothing. I think Facebook a lot more to blame for this stuff than you tube Youtube actually has been cracking down on
piracy misinformation for a while now, maybe not as much as they should have been. If there's a criticism its they haven't done enough: they ve gone out of their way to provide official- formation about corona virus vaccines, etc. When the algorithm, the tax that that's the subject matter, was it enough? No, but I'm seeing way more problematic, stuff spread and be signal boosted on Facebook, where It's really generating even more denial ism and perpetuating this information, and one of the things I ve been thinking about a lot lately, and I know this is a big statement at this point. I think Facebook is probably a negative, probably a net negative. I think Youtube is still in that positive. Ok, there's so much amazing instructional and documentary content, cooking, gardenings out so many things on on Youtube that it that it is fantastic and there
problems with misinformation spreading on Youtube as well, I'm sure not sure that Facebook is at all in a positive way. published a facebook because I think Facebook exists and I'd rather Facebook have our content, then not have it, but that's a real for me at this point in time, if that big is interesting. By the way, I highly recommend the book tat, not only by the critic. Neil postman, I'm almost done reading it. he's way more straight up like anti technology than I am, but the book, which is actually from the nineties. Perfectly predicts the conundrum, wherein with social media platforms right now and the downside of tack, and it's very much a worthwhile read now as far as the decision by Youtube either way. Spirits. He theorists, we're going to say Youtube is against them. They banned the content, the Anti Baxter say: Youtube is participating in the suppression. but they say it either way, and so
think that this is definitely the right decision. Is there some concern about who gets to decide what counts, as Anti backs sure at any time you don't being the gatekeeper brings with it its own set of questions and problems? That's always apply. Well, that's not new here and you Don't say that these come these can enforce terms of service in terms and conditions as a result, and unfortunately, that's that's the claim that many are making absolutely love this next story this porters of that completely bogus audit of the twenty twenty presidential election results in Arizona are now Turning on each other after the total, embarrassing humiliating flop, in which after months and months of saying, this audit will show us what really happened, the results were Joe Biden actually won Arizona. By about three hundred and sixty, I believe edition.
Votes than what was originally reported and as per usual when things go bad Trump, porters just start attacking each other and blaming daily. Goal explains Arizona. Audit backers turn on each other after the recount flop are, a former guest of on on the show will summer wrote this article Porters of Republicans controversial, quote audit. I think it makes sense to put that, in quote. We still don't really know is: is this not at what is not it supporters of the audit have turned on each other after the partisan investigation, failed to find proof of election malfeasance with disaffected. backers even circulating a fabricated rival report. They claim shows interference by the quote deep state, the report landed with a thud on Friday, only proving, if anything, that Joe Biden, one Arizona by more votes than previously realised on this week
at the sight of the daily bees fever dreams. Podcast hosts a so win sub sang and will summer are joined by Arizona, Mirror reporter Jared Mcdonald avoid to discuss the fractious aftermath. Some people who were involved in the report say that deep state kept the real truth out now, that's already great, because there are some of the people who supported the audit arson the deep state infiltrated their own group, their own audit. That would raise questions as to whether that's a very trustworthy group to be doing this at all. If they could be so easily infiltrated by the deep state, the deep state and the politically correct lawyers and rhinos of the Republican Party suppress. This said MC done a boy summarizing right wing critics, complaints about the anti climactic audit report, among the audit reports, new detractors Jovan Hutton Pulitzer controversial inventor, whose suppose it technology analyzing full who supply
The technology analyzing folds in paper battling ballot paper had promised to detect some kind of fraud instead, no audit report contained no mention of policies. Imaging technology. A chance Pulitzer attributed on Twitter to deep state malfeasance asked over email who, in the deep state, supposedly sabotaged his contribution, Pulitzer Room big vague. That's big question: is it not? This is Just amazing. right wing media personalities, disappointed by the audit heavy and promoted a fictitious rival report, they claim was the real report from the audit. operators. Cyber ninjas in this telling the fabricated draft report called four binds wind to be de certified, but while the fake report was embraced by the right wing NEWS, Blog Gateway pundit as proof that the real role or had been watered down cyber ninjas blasted that report as a hoax.
thank you guys understand They are eating each other there's a big analogy here to flatter authors. If you get a job to flatter through in a room together They all believe the earth is flat, but They cite different proofs. Suppose it please explaining why we talked about this actually recently on the show and of their alleged proofs conflict with each other. They they can't possibly be true, yeah Vill, all agree. The earth is flat, but they will disagree vehemently or vehemently as too what evidence there is for that, and there is a very sort, a similar thing here. The audit failed to point to Trump, actually winning their blaming each other. They ve got conflicting reports, and sometimes you have to eat your own to maintain the lie. That sort of what they were signing up for here and consider the backfire and the fact that the odd It was not just a waste of time. It was away the money in it
actually ended up showing if anything that Donald Trump was an even bigger loser in Erreth in Arizona than we originally thought. Will the results to be any different from other audits. well in Texas, their auditing counties in a state that Trump already one so I prediction is: no, if you think anything will come of any of these audits. A few even understand what it means that they are doing auditing. I would love hear from you. You can find me on twitter at deep Hackmen. One of our sponsors is all form hands down the easiest way to custom, build your own sofa. You choose the premium fabric, you want you to the sofa size shape color, even the color of the legs. You can surmise every aspect of your new sofa to make sure it's the perfect fit for your home. I got my first
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all right. So there was a hearing yesterday, really over the last couple of days and secretary of Defence, Lloyd, Austin was questioned by members of Congress. The chairman of the joint Chiefs of staff, general marked Milly, was questioned, and this hearing was the a pity me show boating and grand standing to no benefit whatsoever of the american people full. Stop that there's barely more than it did. There is almost no additional analysis to do other than Many of these members of Congress really have no business being in Congress and your very quickly figure out which individuals, those are much The hearing was meant to just provide a cartoonish opportunity for people like Matt Gates and others should demand Andorra request there, general Mark Milly Resign and
couched it is being related to Afghanistan, although the topic of Mark Milly having to sort of reassure China that true is not going to just bomb you in the last few days of his presidency, a story that will we learned about as a result, this book by Caroline again, Philip Brucker. I believe it is less, get right into the cliffs it it's. It's really amazing here is congressmen Joe Wilson Who- calls for President Joe Biden to resign. Just cut countless calls for resignations during these hearings. Buck stops with thirteen murder moraines Mr Binding, the gentleman's it as explanatory advisers. Gotta nightly ought, as it should resign, miss irony retired unprepared. To begin our questions, I believe president should resign. Everybody should resign. According to these hearings, then, and this is actually really important. Milly- actually explains why.
It was that led him to communicate with chinese officials. In those final days of the trunk presidency, congressmen Heart Slur Republic, from Missouri says: Milly should resign. Look at this and others that the Chinese fought wrongly that the United States can attack them. I am certain guaranteed certain that present trumpet no intent to attack and was my task to make sure I communicated that in the purpose was to gear skylight. Climate may share. Now that early, I understand is Hornaday just say: did you or did I think, has had congressmen hearts lords Congresswoman Hearts Laurie, I think I may spoke before. I ask Tell him that if we were going to attack you would let him know. As part of that conversation, I said, journalists
there's not going to be a war, does not gonna be attacked between great powers and if there was, the tensions would build up the because going back and forth from all kinds of senior officials. I said how generally outbreak in Kabul we're not going to attack. You trust me we're not going to attack you these two great powers, and I am doing my best to transmit the president's intent? We also understand that the wants to frame what Milly did as some kind of treason by Calling China and saying we're not going to attack you, no matter what which then would be a signal to China. Hey the! U S isn't going to attack us, no matter what now it's a carte blanche for us to do stuff, what millions explaining is he called any said. Listen in these last few days, trumps not gonna, just start dropping random bombs on you, if we we're going to get into a military conflict. There would be an escalation. We would be talking the way that things happened. There would be threats. There would be an escalation that
obviously not the trees and that the right want that wants to make it out to be but parts there doesn't care to tend to ensure that the american people are protected from an incident that could escalate I understand your intent, but I think you articulating nad that you would tell him you would give him a call, I think, is worthy of your resignation. I just think that's against our country that you would give our number one adversary. information and tell him that these people there either idiots or their pretending. But there is a it's in there there's nothing there there is. I don't know how else to say it, then that gates gets involved in it gets even more embarrassing February. Twenty six twenty House Armed Services Committee General Mark Emily. we know we're not going to defeat the Taliban militarily and they're, not going to defeat the government of Afghanistan militarily, you really. That called in general.
I believe that that was aged issue, strategic stalemate and that if we had remained in Afghanistan with the advisory levels of effort than they governor Afghanistan. That's that's in having answered international just not when I asked you spent more time with Bob Woodward on this book than you spent analyzing. The very like the prospect that the Afghanistan government was gonna fall immediately to the Taliban. Didn't you not even close Congress already, because you said right after cobble fell that no one could have anticipated the immediate fall of the Ghani government. When did you become aware that Joe Biden tried to get Ghani to lie about the conditions in Afghanistan. You did that. I did. You know that right away, I am not aware of what Biden Europe. Why won't called it buying had with Ganny, where he said whether it is true or not. We want you to go out you're in pain, a rosy picture. What's goin on Afghanistan, you're, the chief military advisers president, you said that detail
a ban was not going to defeat the government of Afghanistan militarily, which, by the way they got thrown like a hot night through border even was just endlessly like this just gates is, is horrible. And then Gates mentions as an aside that Biden. is to addled to even fire anyone, that they should be they shouldn't be in their positions. It. It just gets crazy. You said yesterday that you weren't going to resign. When senators ask you this question I believe it s probably won't resign. You seem to be very happy failing up over there, But if we didn't have a president that was so addled, You all would be fired because that is when you deserve. You have let down the people who, where the uniform in my district and all around this country and you're, far more interested in what year
perception is and how people think about you inside of Washington books and you care about winning downlands it hasn t, I'm. I'm Israel has recognised thanks. Mr chair and gentlemen, I apologise for the behaviour of my colleague, just grandstanding this? This does nothing to move forward the interests of the american people or of the United States as a country globally. in this next clip Donald Transformer, Doktor, Ronnie Jackson, who is now a member of Congress also, getting Milly completely exasperated. General merely. Will you now resign I server the pleasure, the president, Mr Jackson, Congress. Pat Fallon from Texas, asking Milly about his comments about that horribly botched drone strike afghanistan- and
of course, taking them completely out of context and General Milley on September. First, three days later, you described it as a right to strike people that were not supposed to kill retail than you described it as a right to strike You have to go back and look at the fork or what I said was we follow. The procedures had every reason to believe that that we followed our procedures at that point in time, we knew that there were civilians killed. We knew there were nine combats and there was glad on day ass. He said. Were others killed? Yes, yes, where they, we don't now we're trying to sort out all that about it. I write I say that's right now, because I believed kill people. We shall, I believe, is a rivalry. I believe that the target we were aiming, I, sir, and I believe the time we were aiming at was ok. I have three more and add and this is a strategy which is you don't even really give time to answer the questions now. I think I have already spoken about the botched drone strike and it's absolutely horrifying and disgusting, but the idea, That suddenly republicans care about drone strikes
and civilian deaths is laughable and then last clip here's the previous day. This is Senator Tom Cotton again bringing up what. Why haven't there been resignation? Scare? One final question gentlemanly: I can only conclude, but your advice about, staying in gas was rejected. I'm shocked to learn that that your advice was sought until August Winthrop on staying past, always thirty one deadline, I understand it, you're the principal military adviser you advise, you dont decide the present sides. But if all this is true, general Milly, why haven't you resigned, sir?. senior military officer
Resigning is a really serious thing at a political act. If I'm resigning in protest, my job is to provide advice by sectors must always provide legal advice or best motor advice to the present, and that's my legal requirement that so Milly having to explain to Tom cotton sort of like how things work. We learned nothing from these hearings. What is the dollar value? The dollar cost of these hearings to judge to allow these Republicans to ask why haven't you resigned essentially without an interest, even in learning anything about what has actually taken place. Just more pathetic behaviour by modern Republican Party I love segments like this next one today we're going to go through some examples of lying with graphs. I've told you before
for all the different ways you can lie with statistics. There's a book I've recommended many times. It's called how to lie with statistics by Darrell Half, not a new book, but a very important book to understand, in the book it talks about sampling, bias or selectively? Choosing when you say, average choosing mean mediator mode, depending on which is most convenient for the point you're trying to make it. talks about post, HAWK, Ergo, prompter, hawk. All of this stuff is in the book but one of the chapters is called the Gee whiz graph. It away to lie with graphs and a classic in line with graphs, specifically, is engaging the. Why access, or sometimes the x axis otherwise access is the vertical axis on a graph so think through just a general example, and then will look, Fox NEWS did in the last few days. Imagine I want to give you the impression that the temperature just skyrocketed when it really didn't now in the night,
these to the United States over the course of a year. There is a really broad temperature, ranging in winter there's some days were its minus five Fahrenheit, sometimes you'll get a minus ten Fahrenheit day in some parts of the North EAST and in the summer, it can be like a hundred degrees Fahrenheit on a really hot day during a heatwave, so that a big range minus ten to one hundred if one day at seventy two degrees and the next day at seventy five degrees. That's not a big change when you think about something its minus ten sunday it's one hundred? But if I plot Seventy two and seventy five degree days and really shorten that why access so the chart starts at seventy degrees and ends at eighty degrees that three degree change between seventy two and seventy five will look absolutely huge so that It's just a fox news these last few days and we have the bull examples here. The other day
in one of his segments about how the United States is. I guess going down the tubes, because not enough people are religious anymore Karlsson put up this graph, which were bring up on the screen which shows the percentage of Christians in the? U S in two thousand and nine and the percent of Christians in the? U S and twenty nineteen, and if you but these yellow bars. That looks like a big decline. But if you look The. Why axis you see that this only starts at fifty eight percent and ends at seventy eight percent. Now, of course, anyway, from zero to one hundred percent of Americans could identify as Christian that's the range, but the chart makes the decline. Look huge by only only showing you the scale, fifty eight to seventy eight now Christianity is in decline, of religiosity is in decline in the United States, but it's not nearly as dramatic as this chart makes it looked at the untrained. I now here's one other example. This is
truncating the? Why access it sort of shortening the time horizon kind like shortening x axis. In this case, this was on the news side, a Fox news, not opinion Brett news man Brett Bayer, showed graphs that make it look like cost of oil and gas is just way way up under Joe Biden, so they showed this graph of oil prices. shows that oil and gas sure seem to have been really low in twenty twenty under Trump and then boom skyrocketing under Joe Biden, but the issue is it only look twenty nineteen through what we have so far of twenty twenty one, then, that shows this graph of gas prices, which also shows only twenty nineteen to twenty twenty one, and it looks like ass prices went down and twenty twenty and then splendid in twenty twenty one under Joe by now. This is deceptive for two reasons. The first is the pandemic: the pen
make hit and cratered demand for oil and gas. Since people stop travelling and then the recovery started and so demand went up in prices started going up. That's one reason: whites deceptive, that's book a qualitative reason, but quantity Thirdly, this is really deceptive, because oil prices have not. The oil prices have been going up for about seven years, but they are still historically not very high when you zoom out- and you look the of oil prices that goes back to like ninety ninety five or so you very quickly see that pay skyrocketed around two thousand seven and then came down and then upper in twenty twelve and then came down, and now the roughly at a seven year high that started seven years ago. It is not a Joe Biden thing so when you zoom out you see we'll prices are nowhere near record highs and
for to day been on an increasing trend that is seven years old. Now not this year, under Biden very similar with natural gas. You zoom out to ninety ninety five. You seek ass prices were higher in two thousand one end thousand six in two thousand nine and yes, there begin Now- extremely deceptive always look at the labels on the access this stuff every twelve year old should be taught if we started teaching this when, when kids were twelve way, fewer people would fall for it. On Fox NEWS will have these graphs and more examples on our instagram, which you can find it. David Pachmann show. One of our sponsors is blink. Ist who's been supporting the David Pachmann show longer than any other sponsor blink, as does the apt that lets you listen to or reed an entire nonfiction book, and just fifteen minutes, blinking
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guest for free and get twenty five percent off a subscription go blinking dot com, slash pachmann. The link is in the podcast notes,. it's great to have back on the programme today. Doktor Isaac bow GOSH infectious diseases, physician and scientists based out of the University of Toronto and Toronto General Hospital great having you back again. So where do even start? Ok, I mean over the last over the last month, or so we ve seen a global decline of about thirty thirty one. Thirty two percent in daily case average, the. U S, has seen a similar decline. Some countries are a little bit ahead of that sum. A little bit behind what
what's the explanation here. Is it backs the nation getting to a critical point? Is there still some seasonality? We don't understand. Is it just inaccurate reporting and maybe cases aren't really going down here? I thank God. I think that the lot of the above and had all of the above so certainly in countries that have significant vaccine access and vaccines role of that's definitely helping right. That's definitely in case it down or driving, came down, and we cannot ignore that. But of course, this probably other factor that play. We know that vaccine equity global ban inequity. The major issue there still are billions of people around. What without access to these back is mainly in low income countries and
are you know in it, depending on where you are in the world? There are very significant outbreaks epidemics up their soap globally, it's great to see those cases go down on. I think it's too soon to start having no mission accomplished, banners up or anything like that were still at a global level, far from the end, but certainly in countries with high vaccine uptake, like the United States like Canada, like many european countries and the few countries in Asia. Yet we are closer to the enemy, be in that second, a third period, rather than in the first period like on imports from other countries, are so last summer of twenty twenty. There was the correct belief that the fall into winter in the Northern hemisphere was going to get pretty bad at the time. but you're starting to roll out vaccines. There was very limited availability. The peak ended up being in the? U S, it was basically January twentieth right around presidential inauguration day in countries. It was a little bit earlier, a little bit later and
then we saw the serve big decline, and then we got the delta spike there. Time around where vaccination is available in many of these countries and were still not totally sure about the seasonality match up that that sort of mirrors the flues seasonality, water think about this fall and winter in the northern hemisphere. Right bigger the cup point one is that when we talk about seasonality might mean different things to different people, and yet I am sure eventual E. This virus will have a more seasonal component. Maybe it'll be more present in certain times of yours like the cold, her but versus the warmer bunch, and and that That's very likely to happen with time. But when I talk about seasonality now, I'm I'm oversimplifying it, but it kind of can be simplified in the sense that whatever puts people in doors is either a risk factor for greater transmission, hey it's cold outside and its September, so yes
I back the school. Many people are going back to work in person and we're not hanging out of doors, and he is much any market is getting Celli worth spending recreational time indoors and that in an in and of itself in a population level can certainly DR numbers out, because they're just innumerable opportunities for this virus to be transmitted. So when we put that together and look at the northern hemisphere, yes, it is getting cooler. People are going inside for more and more reason. I think it is fair to say that we will see peaks and valleys, but probably peaks throughout the cooler month and the fall in the winter in the northern hemisphere and sort of stating the obvious. I think area they have more widespread vaccine uptake will have more blunted peaks. The ample two of those pieces really under our control. In countries like Canada, the United States are fortunate enough to have access to those that feed you can back now, so an end, those around you and your community, you can create a safer endorsed. This is well with basking with Ben too late.
Should we not crowd control like there's a lot of steps, we can take to create safer interspaces at a population level as well, so that you reap the benefits of of those of vaccination campaigns plus those non pharmaceutical intervention, so short story, long yeah I mean we're- probably have some people valleys throughout the fall in the winter, but how high those peaks go Under our control, we have the tools to keep it under control, sows the on speaking of tools. There was a period where it seems as though every adult was headed towards a third shot, Originally, the word booster was used, but when it was when the framing was no no, no, it may be a three shot. Regimen. The change of language. Was it's not an it's, not a booster. It's just part of what you're supposed to do and then all of a sudden, we started seeing a change in tone to some degree where, at least in the- U S, the recommendation change to only third shots for sixty five plus.
Immunity compromised pre, existing conditions, which, if you clued being overweight and smoking is a lot of people in the United States right Emmy. But let let's put that aside just for a second here, What's your sense of because then there is the medical question as to who would really benefit theirs. Maxine equity question as to who should people be getting third shots or, as are those better used, as first as in other parts of the world, a house be thinking about it and I love how you separate those questions because often times that get confused and from a medical standpoint like this is a very valid medical question. Do people need third dose of the vaccine, and we want to delve into that. I think the answer is like anything else. It's a bit more complicated. I think there's good data to drive that you mean compromise individuals. However, we wanted to find it would benefit from a third dose of a vaccine right.
It don't mount the same degree of an immune response that other people and, as you point out, this can be viewed as your many people had two doses of a three dose regiment. You need that third dose for better protect we have known this for a million years well the fork over ninety right there's a reason we give me your compromise individual double doses of, for example, the hepatitis B that he'd like this is no similar to that people who are on the older end of the spectrum will probably benefit from a third dose of a vaccine in the United States. It was defined as sixty five in up. You wicked argue in debate about the data, but that not unreasonable, including those who live and convert a care. That is like long term care facilities and again we ve known as long before, culminating came around there's a reason. We give older cohort the higher dose Influenza vaccine every year, because we know they need an extra boost him out an immune response, but I gotta say and I thought you know when we're I'm I'm sorry,
Canada. Now, when, when we listening listening to the United States at if we're in MID August, we heard very senior political and public health leader, say everyone getting a boost or shot at the six month by ex pardner story. Everyone getting a booster at the five month marked out no, no, we met six month or eight months and then they actually had to sit down, and you had the FDA disgusted you had the vaccine experts discuss it like the process to get to this decision was very choppy, and I think that a lot of damage in terms of public trust in the back in Africa, especially when we know many on back people currently were I to like it, what we are trying to win them over we're trying to show a demonstrate how safe? In effect and reasonable. What did they get these backing? This didn't do a lot of good enough in the end in getting to that point. Unfortunately, the other thing to it. I don't know where it really landed in the United States because it seems like you know, if you're a smoker. If your ob,
If you may work in a higher risk setting you can it basically things like it open these men and women, who want to get it there doesn't get a third doubt. I don't think, that's that's really appropriate or not. a black on an eye, but then one factor in the equity issue? You got hundreds of millions of people that are eligible for a third dose when those billions of people who haven't received the first dose any and hundreds of tens of millions of Americans that should be receiving a first out. You wanna get the vendor control. You get first and second doses in as many people as possible, rather than third doses, not to ignore that there are some people who would really benefit from a third dose up to some at all. What do we all need? Third doses No, we don't do some of us need third doses. Now, yes, some of us to do will we all need a third dose at some point in the future. We might all need a third dose at some point in the future, but we don't all need to third dose now
so in terms of protection level which, as you point out, can be in terms of larger populations. The protection level is lower for certain folks and that's a factor in thinking about these third doses, How should we be thinking now about how protected one is today, given the difference between the dominant delta strain and what was the original or live strain for which the vaccines were calculated, because you were here you still got a mask if you're vaccinated, because you can still spread it and then you here hey, actually you can, but if you're vaccinated and asymptomatic its super likely, but its, but it's possible, and it makes it makes it very difficult to do like a risk assessment of any individual. So
you when you read ninety nine, ninety eight ninety seven percent of the cases and an or at least hospitalizations or in the on vaccination. What does that tell us now? Basically, young, sometimes you got complain about shifting all posts in your changing the rules, and the answer is yes, of course. The shipping goalposts, of course, are changing the rules and adapting quality. You have two because the virus is changed as well, and the delta baron is, of course, is the same buyers, but its functions in a different manner is way more transmissible verse compared to the original virus that emerged from one. So, yes, you have to have these shifting goalpost at the promised, communicating
and an telegraphing uncertainty and communicating that there will be changes over time. Some we can expect some way. Not. We might not be able to expect so the people don't feel like they're, getting the rug pulled from underneath the so that that that's one important point. The second point, though it yeah I mean belt, is much more transmissible, but we do know that if your vaccinated right off the bat dealt our not evil specially, even without that, you still reduce the risk of getting cobra. Ninety you reduce the risk of getting in fact it, but you greatly reduce the risk of getting really sick, like landing in hospital meeting an icy or die an ambitious overwhelming data from multiple countries, demonstrating all that. The second point is, you can still get infected
with with Delta, even if your backing it, we ve known that we ve known that one before delta even emerged in the original clinical trials that were published. There were still back. Mrs people compacted Delta hadn't even emerged, yet that's not new, but we do know now that if you are vaccinated and infected you're, just much less likely to transmit the other people. Of course, you can still transmit, but the problem of probability is lower silks, for example, if you want to create a safe indoor space, a restaurant, a bar, a casino, a day care wherever the more vaccinated people you have that indoor space you just reduce the likelihood that you're bringing over nineteen internet space and be though, if it is brought in the likelihood that its transmitted to other people, of course, that one significant layer of protection- but we have to think of this- is layers of protection as others. You can take masking ventilation, crowd, control, Emily, put all those lairs together and yet that vaccines wanna get really fancy and rapid testing at the door
we're lairs. You have the paper, the indoor space. You have the more letters you pay a lot, you did adding incremental levels of risk and you gotta find that sweet spot of which reasonable with convenient and where necessary, for that particular environment. Last thing I want to touch on when cases no longer matter in a very specific sense. I think it was with each one on one that at us in point: when it determined that it's no more deadly than the flu strain of that year and correct me if it's not each one on one, but it was a different thing that I'm referring to add assert point the testing stopped, because it didn't really matter whether you had the flu or you had again. I think it was H one on one, because the protocol was no different. It was no more deadly case. Numbers may have been interesting, but they didn't really tell us anything about the risk to an individual of getting really sick from being out in the world? depend on the level of vaccination. Does it depend on the may be reduced severity of
corona virus as we go forward which may happen or or or it may not. When do the case numbers no longer matter, though, I think if you wind up twenty people in the business, you probably get several different answers. The way I think about that, though, is I like the cave numbers, but it had to be put at the appropriate context right, there's a lot of that. Hospitalization icy use, death cases back needed percent, positive blah, blah blah blah blah contact is important, so you have to put the opiate it and and and contacts to each data point, but when the case number sort of start war were in the important factor, I think it in my mind. It's really when we start to see this virus, not impact society is much anymore. What do you mean by that? It might resulting
in an overwhelming number of hostile, isolations or death or more bidding is not preventing people from doing what they do and a lot of value judgement as well right as a value judgment here. It's kind of unfortunate in discussing to think about, but at some point we're gonna have to collectively decide what is an acceptable number of deaths per year. Rang recovered ninety nine night. To think about that, we have to figure that out like in Canada, for example, Influenza kills thirty five hundred people per year, awful terrible your flew shot. All of them are tragic, but as a country resort to come to terms with about how many we see per year, we have to come to terms with how many Colbert nineteen deaths
cases or whether it is corner quote acceptable and, unlike again, be troublesome zero. I don't think that's practical, of course, there's the letter rip crowd. I dont think that safer ethical as well right of actually enough people have immunity, threw back the nation or recovery from infection that it just doesn't poses. A burden on the country or the region as much that you do not get any longer. The health care system ignore restaurant. The bars live your life by the is the buyers isn't going away, so it's gonna, be of a value judgment. That's a bit of a long winded way of answering that question, but at some point is it? What is it when it when it impacts the country or the region less by not overwhelming the healthcare system in nice meaningful morbidity and mortality. That's probably when the case count
about a year and are, and it will still be under a different call for differ individuals also based on their there, their level of risk and their willingness to accept risk as well? So it there's? No, it's it's a complex answer, because it's a complex question. I guess this is where we desire We ve been speaking with Doktor Isaac, Bow GOSH infectious diseases, physician and scientists based at the University of Toronto in Toronto. General hospital, always great catching up with you break out. of our sponsors, this privacy, dot com there, giving you five dollars when you sign up for their completely free service at privacy, dot, com, slash, Pachmann, I've been using privacy for a little over a year. Now you ve Herbie talk about it before it's a lifesaver and here's how it works, takes just a couple of minutes to set up any time you buy something online or on the phone. Instead of Actually, using your real credit card number, the privacy app and the browser plugin, let you give each
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card info, protected against data breaches and identity theft, and it's free and, like I said, you'll get five dollars to spend when you sign up at privacy, dot com, slash Pachmann, You can find the link in the podcast notes. We have a really interesting political situation that surfaced in the last twenty four to forty eight hours, a pole came out from the perennially unreliable Rasmussen reports which says that if the twenty twenty four election were held today, and Donald Trump or the republican nominee and Joe Biden where the democratic nominee Donald Trump would defeat Biden by ten points. Fifty one to forty one Now what is interesting about this other than you know? It's three years out in a port put a pole. Right now is sort of meaningless. There are two things that are very interesting: one is I dont actually disagree with the general conclusion and that
conclusion is that Donald Trump might easily went, and twenty twenty four against Joe Biden. I've actually said before I think about twenty twenty four big picture. I really see Joe Biden at age. Eighty one days short of his eighty second birthday in November of twenty twenty four feeding Donald Trump after four years of trumpets talking about how terrible Joe Biden, as I see it as a big uphill battle, Biden says: thanks, I'm not running for reelection Common Harris's, the nominee as ever now Kamel. Harris's approval rating is not good an idle see commonly defeating Donald Trump in a general election either. And that's why I've been saying the best scenario is done. Tromp not running in twenty twenty four, but that doesn't she change that this pole, a Rasmussen Paul, three years out,
is really not worth much at all. But all the normal start stuff starts happening when the pole comes out The Washington examiner starts writing headlines about the pole, Trump overburdened by ten points Harris by thirteen and publishes reference on his website to the pole and alive to this very same Washington, examiner article and the Ecosystem starts to repeat itself and build, itself. So this is a sort of weird situation, because I think from could absolutely win in twenty. When he for but without knowing what happens in twenty twenty two and what the next you know it. these eighteen months of the Joe Biden Presidency look like it is very hard to say anything substantive about the specifics of Trump Verses Biden and twenty twenty four hour republican voters ignorant enough to elect Donald Trump again, absolutely, of course, there
which is why it would be better for Donald Trump not to run and whatever. That reason is from becoming convinced that he can't win. When I was on the Michael Common Podcast a few weeks ago- or maybe six weeks ago, something like that will coincide. I dont think Trumbull run because he can't handle and other disappointment he can handle another hit to his ego. He just you just can't handle it, and so he doesn't, the chance of losing again and he's not going to run, but at the same time, from as a major narcissist and it takes a lot for trumped to think he can't win from tends to think he can win, ethernet tend to think of themselves as invincible. that to me signals that very well may run unless it's abundantly clear that he has no shot. It would be better for Trump not to run There is no question that the American, public as a result of its composition with so many low information, radicalized Republicans would vote for trumpet and at least plausibly. The message here is that the exam act coalition that brought Biden.
victory and twenty twenty, which came down to not many boats in a few states remember massive popular vote victory. bigger margin than Trump when it came to electoral, not in electoral votes, but the combined margin in the states that made a difference. It was a few hundred thousand, rather than just the seventy seven thousand boats in three states that push trump over to seventy. But bindings coalition- was very precarious. A slight departure from it could have seen Donald Trump Reelected and that's, not a threat that should be understated, so do we air about Ras Musin, three years out no specifically, the polling is bogus, but the message that Trump could definitely win in twenty. Twenty four is an act, what message and that's the one that we should be paying attention to hey. I don't know how I miss this. This was a few days ago, but, yes, Today, people sent me clips and I do want to talk about it because there's some interesting stuff here
I was a journalist, a man named Dan Ball from away and one America NEWS had a one on one interview with Donald Trump. Apparently, the interview was very long and it was a bizarre interview in every way and I think There's a few interesting things here and I want to look at them with you. Let's start with the first clip where Donald Trump again pushes the big lie that he actually one in twenty twenty and then the countries not actually going to survive this now that, as some interesting implications, listen again, you know, I don't wanna, be naive, I think a grossly incompetent. I really do not think it was because they cheat on the elections in on either side cheat on the elections, and when you look at forty, three thousand votes were found last night. They cheat on elections when you Jihad elections, Europe to destroy the country, then destroy not country our country
will not survive this. Our country will survive and what does that mean the country? The country won't survive what it won't survive, Joe Biden being president for four years. What what, likely, is it that the country want surviving. What's the timeline and it's funny how these hyper ball, these right, wingers claimed This hyperbolic Wendell says very the timeline on dealing with climate change, after which we could he hit a point of no return. Is it look at that hyperbole and the from says the countries not going to survive this. What do you mean look at where they are coming from the coming from Yemen? They coming from the Middle EAST they coming from all countries at a very sick countries. Very sick, very neat mean nasty they're coming from all countries that has a trump getting visibly confuse there, and this goes back to immigration and the unproven idea that Terrorists from Yemen and other countries are coming through the. U S, Mexico border. We still have no evidence of that. It could happen.
Radically. That could happen. We have no evidence that that's actually taking place Trump then saying again, his line about the cupboards were bare when he took over but saying nobody could have predicted a pandemic could know who could have predicted it masks. We were doing what we did. All the coverage were rare, including the Eu S covered. The governors didn't have anything weedin, because nobody really ever thought of pandemic would happen. It says I should have an ancient thing. You know or go back of course. No we could have predicted a pandemic other there. The pandemic response team, which Trump disbanded when he became president and They even left to play book about to do in the case of a pandemic, which they threw out again. Seventeen which were so bad and Trump also mentioning the nineteen seventeen flu, which was, of course in nineteen eighteen, very, very strange stuff, then, the interview moves on and away. Unholy Dan Ball
feeds the idea to trump that Joe Biden is shipping people in from the Middle EAST to read states to try they cheat an election just over the interviewer feeding Trump conspiracy theories. Why do you think this is another thing just talk? like about the Middle EAST? Why, the binding administration want too by the end of this year. By most figures, I've looked up, it's gonna be One point: five: two million made illegal, simply two million by the end of the year. Why would you want to do that? Are you trying to that and I will see worship their ship under the Midwest South ship eminent, listen, they're, more dehumanizing language, then saying your shipping people, like it's a computer red states. Mostly, is this and for another way to cheat at elections. So they say if the words, but I don't think so again, you know, I don't wanna, be naive. a grossly in carbon, and then it gets into the segment that the that we looked at earlier. You have to understand that
they continue to insist on this commended emigrants from Latin America are coming here in order to vote and cheat and elections undocumented immigrants. Or non citizens of any kind, can vote and similarly if an asylum seeker or refugee gets here, Afghanistan or wherever they can't vote. They are not citizens, at least not. Initially, there is a long process there, and so this is completely and totally made up Then they get into the covert death toll is inflated. It's not the vacant. You to repeat this one, we did a great job. In addition, we report all of our covered at a level that nobody in the world knows if somebody's dying of a heart, attack and dying cancer, and this somewhere close to being. I somebody with covered they put it down discovered. Now, that's a lie that it is not true If you have a heart attack
and your sister had covered and you die from the heart attack. They say you died, of covert cause. You're says that it just not true believe it or not, the doctors get more money. We place clouds also natural what this goes. Back to is the fact that its more expensive to treat, covert pay since on average and so Medicare pays more money to hospitals that treating because the hospitals incur greater costs and are doing more things. It's a complete lie that by claiming someone has covered you get more money that has been widely debunked. because that has upset me and I think, millions of Americans? Well, it's upset people, but it's a lie. The last eighteen months, the six hundred and twenty three thousand death toll and the lovely and wanted to see it in a minute, the fake news there lonely death ticker. They head up my thinking when scaring the machines out of american citizens. I think me his treasonous, but that's another right away for a while. They death counters are treason,
by the way, and but it has its twenty three is not so much and I from and by the way you look at China's real numbers and if you look at other real numbers and our rights you guys understand, what's going on, there are just an outrageous interview where its often just trump telling the lies, but in this one interviewer is parties is as much of a participant in the lies and then lastly, really wacky, trump suggests that Fox NEWS was part of a conspiracy to steal. The election from him and then I'm upset in Arizona and Fox scalded early when I was leaning back. What fox know to do that before we read things up here. I want to give a big thank you to not only president algae phobia, so how do how did Fox no to call it early okey interview and unfortunately, people are watching away and people are watching this stuff very very concerning and the it it's radical for Fox NEWS undressed,
that they now criticise Fox news as part of the problem and its only news max and away, and that will really tell you the truth, crazy, uphill battle that we are fighting here We have a voice mail number. That number is too one: nine to David P, one of our viewers researched the origins of the corona virus, and he figured it out, take a listen to this David I've been doing my own research and investigating these or in of the corona pirate? He has, I think, through me forums then on the gravel right than on parlor. I've been on Facebook and finally got into the bottom of it Antigua exit, clear, yet no and that the EU should see when people say there doing research. You should see the things there doing and what their looking out often researches my aunt posts that, a conspiracy article, the Facebook and I
through all the comments, and nobody made any good counterpoint. That counts is research. In some circles we ve got a great bonus show for you today, LOS Angeles is moving towards banning the unboxing, aided from me businesses. We will talk about the Biden administration again, trying to end trumps remain in Mexico policy and obesity rates weigh up during the pandemic will explain the why and the how some of it obvious some less obvious, get instant access to. Today's bonus show sign up a joint pack and I see it
Transcript generated on 2021-10-16.