« The David Pakman Show

9/9/19: Sam Harris on the show & Trump advisers increasingly worried

2019-09-09 | 🔗

--On the Show:

--Sam Harris, neuroscientist, philosopher, New York Times bestselling author, and host of the Making Sense podcast, joins David for part one of their wide-ranging discussion about politics, Trump, religion, and more

--Donald Trump is visibly unwell and his advisers and aides are increasingly worried as his erratic behavior continues to get worse

--Donald Trump explodes in another rambling Twitter tirade including tweets about Hurricane Dorian, the Fed, tariffs, the economy, and much more

--It is revealed that Donald Trump personally drew the Sharpie bubble on the Hurricane Dorian map, coming as no surprise to many people

--Bernie Sanders has a toxic surrogate names Linda Sarsour, and she needs to go

--Fox News host Shep Smith rips Donald Trump as "fake news defined" as we explore the real meaning and significance of these occasional anti-Trump statements on Fox News

--Voicemail caller has a late song submission for the show

--On the Bonus Show: More deaths that could be related to vaping, Trump admin to block nation's first supervised injection site, much more...

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
But David Pakman show at David Pakman dot com, so I'm going to have some sort of wrap up and highlights of this extremely erratic behavior from our president over the weekend. This includes continuing the farce. That is sharpie gate. This includes authority Marion demands that Noah not contradict NOAA. That is Noah, not contradict his claims about Hurricane Dorian, putting Alabama at risk, but before we even get to that, because I do want to
some of those stories a little bit we're now learning and it makes sense that Donald Trump's own advisers, the brown nosing sick of fans who will stand behind the guy until the most extenuating, an absurd circumstances make it all but impossible to defend him. Even Trump's own advisors are starting to privately say that they're worried about Donald Trump's mental state after this last week of just outrageously, a radic and volatile behavior. So we see the public part, the unhinged, tweet storms, the confused, so slow speeches while he seems to be gripping the po to the Elect turn and wrestling with his own tongue. The angry speeches, but that's just the public side and there's the behind the scenes, which is an entire other situation, going on privately, which Donald Trump aides are now coming clean about. Trump's, aides and confidants are now telling business in
cider that he is experiencing bipolar mood, changes and I don't mean bipolar in the psychiatric sense. I mean bipolar in terms of up and down up and down mood changes from one minute to the based. Sometimes it merely on seeing a news headline that he doesn't like this guy is so trigger herbal and so Paula Tile, but sometimes, according to his own aides and advisers, his entire schedule will be changed because he sees some negative story about him, which sends him into a complete and total tailspin. Such that he's unable you or unwilling to do anything for the rest of the day quote from one republican strategist, who is frequently in contact with the White House, he's deteriorating in plain sight. We see it publicly right just by itself. What we see publicly would be enough to confirm that this is someone who is temperamentally unfit to be. President of the United States, and aides are saying that the public component is not
compared to the private component. A person who's close up, who was close to Donald Trump's legal team during the Russia Investigation, told business insider that Trump's public statements were quote nothing compared to what he's like behind closed doors. The Alabama thing which we've been in will continue talking about a little bit is particularly worrying to them, because it could have all been prevented by saying, oh I mentioned Alabama could have been hit by the hurricane turns out. Hurricane Dorian wasn't heading there. We should all be glad about that that people in Alabama weren't in harm's way we're going to work on helping the people who were in harm's way instead has been this endless, never ending lies and cover ups, including drawing on a hurricane map with a sharpie which we talked about week. So this is no longer about Donald Trump lying Trump's, aides and confidence are saying everyone is used to the lies already sad that we've become completely accustomed to that, but that this Alabama thing has cre
crossed over to another level altogether. That is to them. To quote them quote a deterioration in plain sight: fifteen tweets and five maps about the Alabama hurricane fiasco, and this is unfortunately, and I mean that it's not a surprise to anyone- who's been watching or listening to my program and paying attention to this he's been getting worse and worse and worse for years now, and he controls nuclear weapons and. Politics and our relationships to every historical world ally of importance to the United States. If he merely stays on the same trajectory like nothing gets worse, nothing accelerates, he just stays on the same decline. Trajectory between now and election day. Imagine what we will be dealing with by November of two thousand and twenty, especially his polling numbers, don't improve and
even more deteriorated. Donald Trump believes that he's likely to lose in November of two thousand and twenty. This will become the stuff of nightmares and just imagine if he starts to think that is a result of losing in November of two thousand and twenty he might end up indicted. It will be more outrageous than we can likely imagine. He will be desperate to prove nonexistent voter fraud. He will be desperate to avoid the possibility of indictment, and maybe just as importantly, for him, global embarrassment as a result of that indictment, there's actually an interesting split kind of developing in the Trump supporter Camp, although they all
we're still likely to vote for him in two thousand and twenty you've got on one side. The trump ists who are sort of doubling down and they're pretending that everything Trump's doing is normal, that any critique of trump is merely fake news meant to take down a president who won't stop winning. That's the double down trump ists, but you've got this. Other wing of Trump is developing their the Trump IST who realize they made a mistake in supporting this existentially threat to humanity, and they have just stopped paying attention to Donna Trump and use headlines. They're sort of pretending that the President, what you know I just work, I go and live my life. I have heard of any of it. They're sort of struck
going to remain ignorant deliberately and uninformed for their own benefit and to placate their cognitive dissonance. Those air, the two sides unlikely either side, is ultimately going to vote for a Democrat, but we'll talk about that and now, let's get into the specifics of the insanity that this weekend saw so we've got sharpie gate which will follow up on a little bit later. It now appears that it wasn't merely that Donald Trump held up a sharpie modified Hurricane Map, we're now getting reports from White House insiders that Donald Trump personally sharpie the hurricane map itself. There's one problem with claim and I'll talk about it later in the show, but before we even get to that Donald Trump had a completely separate and crazed and erratic fit on Twitter over the weekend. Star
thing about Barack Obama now remember when Barack Obama was president, I know many of you do Republicans, wouldn't stop saying: hey Democrats, George, W Bush. Isn't president anymore, don't mention George W Bush, just talk about Barack Obama. No more talk about Bush! I wish one of them would be intellectually honest enough to give the same advice to Donald Trump and Republicans. Now Obama is not president anymore. Hillary Clinton. It never was president stop talking about both of them, but Donald Trump, going off on Twitter on Barack Obama, shifting directly from that twitter tirade into yes, one related to Hurricane Dorian and the map and fake news so disclaimer before we get into this I've said before many times. We don't want to just cover trump tweets for the sake of covering trump tweets, and we did- and in fact today, I'm going to skip over a ton of them because they're not real,
you related it there's tweets that are differently incoherent, which are not particularly relevant to the story we're talking about today. Today, I'm going to focus on specifically Trump tweets about Obama and the Alabama stuff and fake news. Now all of what I'm going to show you happened basically within twenty four hours, not even early this weekend. So I understand this is sort of about the content of the tweets, but this is happening in one day. This is one day of some of Donald Trump's tweets. This is the president. Look at the Emoji general instability, look at the amount of time that is being spent tweeting falsehoods. Instead of being president, so let's just jump right into it, starting off with the immigration stuff and Obama, the immigration law Institutes, Christopher Hajik, says the Supreme Court has to look at weather.
What is lawful, what they are looking at now is whether Trump's rescission of Daca is lawful, must consider lawfulness of Dhaka itself looks very odd that President Trump doesn't have the discretion to end the program that President Obama began in his discretion. Already I mean the line is crazy. It's all crazy. That program was unlawful. To begin with, I think it's very unlikely that the Supreme Court is going to issue an order reinstating. What it believes is an unlawful program. Daca, it is unlawful. President Obama never had the legal right to sign Daca, and he indicated so at the time of signing, but in any event, how can he have the right to sign? And I don't have the right to uh unsigned totally illegal document which would actually give the President new powers Daca will be going before the Supreme Court. It is a document that even President Obama didn't feel he had the legal right to sign. He signed it anyway. I mean this is
incoherent. Folks, rest assured that if the Supreme Court does what all say it must based on the law, a bipartisan deal will be made for the benefit wall. So this is the Obama Daca Rant and it makes no sense at all. Obama didn't sign in Dhaka. It was a presidential memo to expand something that already existed. There are more details, but this is not a story about immigration. It is about the unhinged unstable nature of the president, so there are four tweets there. This rants they mean nothing of substance, but his followers see that as strong leadership, believe it or not. So then a few hours go by and Donald Trump tweets about the FED and other popular target going from slamming Obama to slamming the FED. Saying quote: I agree with Jim Cramer: the FED should lower rates. They were way too early to raise and way too late to cut and big dose quantitative tightening didn't exactly help either. Where did I find this guy Jerome? Oh well, you can't win them all. So when he says,
did I find this guy Jerome he's talking about FED chief Jerome Powell, who of course, Trump picked after bragging that one of the hallmarks of his administration would be appointing the best people? If Jerome's not great, then it's on Trump now we're up to five tweets. Then he tweets some compliments about Fox news people. Sarah Huckabee Sanders newly a contributor Jean Pierre. Oh I'm not even including those! Then he goes back to the hurricane and remember this is all the same day quote. The fake news. Media was fixated on the fact that I properly said the beginnings of Hurricane Dorian, but in addition to Florida and other states, Alabama may also be grazed or hit. They went capital c crazy, hoping against hope that I made a mistake, which I didn't check out maps. This nonsense has never happened to another president, because other presidents aren't doing what you're doing four days of corrupt reporting still without an apology. But there are many things that the fake news media has not apologized to me for, like the
witch Hunter Spygate, the Lamestream media and their democrat partner should start playing it straight. It would be so much better for our country, so we're now up to tweets once again sort of amalgamate in the issues of so called fake news that, like Dorian fiasco, making himself out to be the victim and martyr and calling the Russia probe a hoax conspiracy. This is still one day Friday. Then tweet nine in this series is Trump again attacking the so called fake news quote. The economy is great. The only thing adding to quote uncertainty is the fake news, that's tweet, nine, and it's till September sixth, and I'm not including the ones about Puro in Sanders, and then he goes into false statements about tariffs. Quote China just enacted a major stimulus plan with all the tariffs day or hang to the USA billions and billions of dollars they need it. In the mean
time, our Federal Reserve sits back and does nothing now. Of course, China doesn't pay the tariffs. American companies buying chinese stuff pay. The tariffs and then they pass on the cost of those tariffs on to you and me, american consumers, that's the tenth tweet, and these are just the policy once again, he also spent half the day. Tweeting. Compliments to a variety of Fox news, hosts stopped talking about Obama, stop lying about how tariffs work, stop lying about investigative journalism, being fake news, stop
about Hurricane Dorian Trump is trying to bully society and the economy into some kind of stupid, submission by attacking media and using twitter and they're not fully submitting to him. Some enclaves have submitted to Trump. That's sad, that's disappointing! If we do not vote this out in November of two thousand and twenty, we deserve another four years of this as a society. Now I know the people who vote for someone else personally deserve it, but if, as a country, we can not a radic Kate, the type of pseudo, an anti intellectualism and non thinking, hyper partisan, looking like a glued to this incompetent man, then as a society is country, we ultimately will deserve another four years of this, which is what we might get. Let me know what you think about all of this. Are you just depressed? Are you experiencing something else? I'm on Twitter at the Packman, the show
is on David at David, David Pakman show at David Pakman dot com. Have you ever wondered why traditional button ups look so long and baggy it's because they were not meant to be worn, untucked Untuk, it is the brand you've been looking for because they were specifically designed to be worn untucked. This is the original untucked shirt. It's a modern soul ocean to an old problem. No talking or Taylor required, no matter your size or shape these shirts are the perfect untucked length with more than fifty fit combinations. Untuckit shirts look great on tall short Slim and after
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big gate with what is sort of the obvious revelation. It's now being reported that Donald Trump personally used a sharpie to draw bubble on Hurricane Dorian's track map, which was inaccurate. We don't want to give more importance to sharpie gate than it deserves, especially when, when you look at what Donald Trump is doing border GEO politically with IRAN with Klein it with our allies, that is also much worse and so much more impactful than sharpie gate. But Sharpie gate is worth talking about in that it refers it's a delusional and unsettling commitment to an absolutely backwards version of the truth that eagles are fundamentally unwell, person and Donald Trump, which won't come as a surprise to people who have been watching me for awhile. So to catch you up. If you have a followed this story- and I envy you- if that's the case- Donald Trump tweeted last week- that Hurricane Dorian was putting Alabama at risk- it wasn't instead of just saying: oh, it wasn't Donald Trump doubled tripled and quadrupled down climaxing
in holding up a version of the hurricane track map that had an additional bubble drawn around parts of Alabama. Now this was not an affair weather map and we knew it was doctored partially because, as more as you go into the future, the whole way. Let me see if I can explain this the way that these cones of possible hurricane trajectory work is that they become wider and more encompassing over time, because uncertainty goes up the further into the future you're predicting. So the fact that a smaller co, one of the possible track was drawn in later in the hurricane is Meh mathematically impossible, but put it if you didn't realize that this was not an official weather map, we knew it was doctored, but the White House now is saying that Donald Trump
personally drew the sharpie bubble. This is according to the Washington Post, an official from the White House saying that quote. No one else writes like that on a map with a black sharpie. Now I will tell you this is so obvious to me. The only thing that makes me doubt it is that when I imagine Donald Trump Drawing, I don't envision him having a steady enough hand to draw such a clean circle between his sort of erratic demeanor and speeches is sniffing and huffing and puffing his signature. That looks like an e k g. I would imagine if you told Donald Trump to draw circle, that it would be a shaky circle, but other than that. Of course, we suspected that
Donald Trump did this himself. This makes his confused denial the other day even funnier. The remember this when Donald Trump was asked about a sharpie being used, and he just looked away and repeated that he doesn't now. I am not happy with. It looks like a father Sharkey, I don't know, I don't know I don't, and that might be able to place all of the other Sharkey. I don't know I don't know. I don't. Graham that map the use of it, looks like it's all, better Sharkey, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know it was him. Of course it was him the whole time and another minor flub again that no one would have cared about had Donald Trump, not triple down quadruple down on it. It's sort of like the supposedly record, set inauguration crowd all over again or three to five million people voted illegally for Hillary Clinton, and otherwise I would have won the popular vote. You say it once as outrageous as it is,
then you just let it go or admit that you were wrong, or at least you don't fight it tooth and nail, and it mostly goes away. Instead, when you go after it and double and triple and quadruple down, it becomes huge and he really embarrassing to anyone who even has the capability to have a sense of shame. It's not clear. Donald Trump does, and this is just insecurity right when you were so insecure or that you can't even admit to the most minor mistake view really show what is actually going on there, and this is not. You know mind reading or speculation. It's the most benign possible explanation of Donald Trump. Choosing to double triple and quadruple down on obvious lies in security is the least bad explanation. The others are far far worse. So maybe this is the end of sharpie gate. I don't know
ah, but we will see if this rears its ugly head again. As many of you know, I I like Bernie, Sanders a lot. I think he has great policies he's one of the most progressive candidates running along with Elizabeth Warren I'd be thrilled for Bernie Sanders to be the democratic nominee and take on Donald Trump, but when people I like do something I disagree with, I say it and Bernie Sanders has made a major mistake in naming a woman named Linda Sarsur as a campaign rig it now, I know I'm going to get crushed for this by a sliver of the left. People may cancel paid memberships they'll be angry, that I have the audacity to call out a woman who happens to muslim and identity politics argument, but I am making the effort not to self censor, and I just see this is a mistake. Linda Sarsur is from the toxic wing of the american left. She,
he is someone who has played coy with and refused to denounce anti semitic nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. She is someone who is stated in marginalizing jewish women in her role as founder of the women's March, which I've previously talked about, I don't believe Bernie under should have anything to do with Linda Sarsur. This is simply a mistake, plain and simple the burr campaign. Over the weekend, we a video of Linda Sarsour speaking there. She is identified merely as a civil rights activist and two thousand and twenty surrogate of Bernie Sanders, but the truth is that she, he has a very, very ugly past again Lynn, our sewer is a founder of the women's March is one of the three founders I've told you about before, allow with Tamika Mallory and Bob Bland, who allowed Anti Semitism to provide the movement who didn't consider jewish women important to the movement and marginalize them who played Coy Anra cozy with Anti semitic, extremist
nation of Islam, leader Louis Farrakhan, who have widely denounced before, and it shouldn't be difficult. Anyone who cares about civil rights and not termination and inclusion, no matter your political ideology is, you should just announced Lewis, Farah Khan, it shouldn't be difficult and Bernie should have thing to do with this, and in fact she has blamed white women for the Anti abortion heartbeat bill that Georgia tried to pass. She has, then did Sharia LAW in a series of tweets trying to put a positive spin on it. Other left and democratic groups have figured this out. For example, the Dnc ended its support of the women's March over exactly what I've described to you before having people like Linda stars who were in the picture is what hurts our own credibility. I don't care about. Linda starts or personally. This is about what this does to the movement, to have. People like this involved even on the israeli palestinian conflict. It quite frankly, doesn't seem like
this are sore and Bernie Sanders are on the same page. Bernie has repeated many times when Israel is it backed by rockets. It has a right to defend itself. He makes clear he's not going to play the demonization games that lots of people like to Linda Sarsur play. We just don't need them all of the productive views that Linda Sarsur might hold are held by plenty of people who aren't toxic and who aren't associated with people like Lewis, Farah Khan. She wants medic for all great, so do I. She wants tuition free college and a fifteen dollars minimum wage lots of people on the left. Do there no reason to make her a surrogate for Bernie Sanders? It's not my left. I'm actually surprised this is even some that Bernie Sanders would entertain. Given his track record, he may simply have no idea what's going on with Linda Sarsour, but I would encourage the left not to dabble with this talks wing, because there is literally no upside there's, no policy upside there's, no
ideological upside there's, no public relations upside, even if you don't personally fine, Linda Sarsur Problematic, even though I believe that you should there is no strategic argument to be made for her in movement in Bernie Sanders campaign period. Now, if you disagree with me, let me know, but try to do it in a way. That's respectful right. Let's, let's see if you can actually do that, because I know exactly what I'm bracing for by even talking about this, make sure you're following the David Pakman show on Instagram it David Pakman show while you're there follow me on Instagram at David DOT, David Pakman show at David Pakman dot com. One of the sponsors is better help giving our listeners ten percent off their first month when you go to better help. Dot com, Slash Packman, podcast, better help
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a body in our audience ten percent off your first month when you go to better help dot com, Slash Packman, podcast and use the discount code, Packman Podcast, that's better h, e l, p, dot com, Slash Packman, podcast, discount code, Packman Podcast, all whoa word. Welcome back to the David Pakman show it's great into the program today: SAM Harris who's, a nuro scientist philosopher, New York Times, bestselling author host of the making sense, podcast and also creator of the waking course I SAM. I really appreciate your time and I'm I'm glad we. We have the time to do this today. Yeah like wise thanks for the invitation, so there's so many specific things. I would love to talk about and I'm sure we'll get to some of them, but maybe just because this is the first time we're talking and
and we've not before, and the sort of lines of political discussion have really shifted in some interest ways in the last few years. What is your take on sort of like where your place is now on the political spectrum as it exists today, and I asked that with the context being that maybe five years ago um, I would have ah believed you to consider give yourself very clearly on the left of the political milieu in the United States and I'm guessing you probably still do, but maybe with some caveats that wouldn't have been there five years ago. I mean I don't know so. Maybe let's start there yeah yeah, you know the truth. Is I don't really know myself? I don't have a clear sense of what the landscape is at the moment. I just know that if you go too far to the left or to the right,
you reliably meet lunatics and so and that's become especially apartment always been clear to me on the right, and so I, as you say, I always considered myself on the left, and I still describe myself as a liberal, but I I just it's now experienced so much pain from what we think of as the far left the but the far left is so mainstream. Now it's I mean it's, you know. The geometry is all screwed up here, because if you talk about the far right, I still think you're talking about the fringe. You know image trump is its own problem, but when people talk about the extreme right when you're talking about the people against whom Antifa would be demonstrating, well then you know you're talking about green on I what the actual numbers are, but it seems like a fairly small
constituency when you're talking about extreme left, where you're you're meeting people who would deny that. There is, you know, any diff between men and women that who would accuse you, know everyone in of being racist and would also assert that race is the most important thing in between human beings and can never transcended or transcendence. When um the kinds of you know: culture, war issues, I've stumbled into and got immense blowback from the left. That's a much more mainstream, John Amanat, a minute date. This you know at what the actual numbers are. I don't know I mean I've seen some polling. That suggests is not actually more than eight percent of the population, but they've captured demia in and journalism and tech
to an amazing degree. So so it's it's all kind of warped, because obvious find the extreme right general, a scarier, but the the mayhem and just that the stifling of of conversation created by the far left is stop it. Something I've spent more time focusing on of late. So I couldn't tell you: I got a lot of pushback from the left which it seems to suggest that I'm a a person of the right which I have never been a member, I'm a registered Democrat. I'm you know, I've never been tempted to vote for a Republican, and you know I've said as much as anyone against Trump both before and after the election. So you know that's that's where I am. Let's see if we can look at some of those elements of the left that you talk about, because what I found in just general
being aware of your work, but then in sort of more specifically preparing for this conversation. What I found is that a lot of your critiques of what colloquially Cloak Lee the known as the left I tend to agree with, but where I think maybe we disagree, is the importance and influence that maybe they have so just to pick one of the things that you mentioned: people who believe there's no difference between men and women um where are they represented sort of in the mainstream? I guess is my question because I a someone who pays attention to both independent and corporate media just so I can do my show so to speak and talks to people in all sorts of different political spaces at in person. Events that I go to at political rallies at whether it's hot vert or MIT or wherever here in the Boston area, where there's a talk, I just
never have met anyone who holds that view now, of course that's merely anecdotal. But the point is in all of my sort of travels. I've read that that exists, but it never seems to have any kind of problem role in the sort of more prominent leftist world. So how? When we defend the idea that it is mainstream in some way it comes down to what you can get in trouble. For saying I guess I mean what you can get cancelled over. What people on Twitter would would try arouse the mob against you for and what corporations and and journals and other institute would do in response, so I mean there's just a few emblematic cases that that come to mind now the gender issue. I guess the Google memo is the thing that everybody knows and you know that
still gets logged in the popular imagination as a fairly egregious eruption of misogyny on the part of James Damore, and you know for which he was rightly punished, and yet it it wasn't that right I mean this was this was like a b plus paper in human biology ray and by a fairly aspey fellow who was just sick of the kind of man just indoctrination he felt he was experiencing in Google around gender issues and tech. And MR the what's happened on the left and again this is a fairly mainstream opinion, although was point is expressed, is the it's? It's now widely assumed that then, unless you have a a fifty and fifty representation in every field, the explanation
and for the disparity you find there has to be sexism or misogyny right. So unless fifty percent of software developers are women, you've got a problem on your hands. You got a recruiting problem. You've got an education problem, some uh white male asshole is responsible for this, and that is a massively widely distributed opinion. Even if it's I always consciously entertained that way, I got I'm just not sure I don't know. I want to really so I'm open to that being the case and whenever I study these things- and you would not know this, but I've often been an adjunct, professor at Boston College, where I actually went in anticipating a lot of the things that I've heard you talk about, and it I've not observed it anywhere near to the degree that you're describing so to speak,
and I'm wondering if there some feedback mechanism, by which the egregious examples that you know about- and I know about- are sort of signal boost to the point where both sides are giving them more attention than they deserve. That's true yeah, so I guess there's two measures of of influence here is here's. One is just the the sheer numbers of people or the percentage of people who hold of you and then there's just the consequences of of of whatever number of people holding it. Whatever those consequences are. So I think there is a signal boost. I think I think social media and the outrage machine we've we've created online. I think that is is large to blame, but academia and tack and journalism are captured by that too,
an amazing degree right. So, even if it's only eight percent, I mean this is one of the the you know, strange properties of of networks where you can uh very vocal minority, can distort the one hundred end of conversation right and in large measure. I think this is given us Trump and the populist wave that he's been riding is that there are so many people who are fed up with you know what often referred to as political correctness- and you know this whole constellation of of taboos and. And injunctions, and yet it's so there's, there's a there's. There is a kind of silent majority. I think that have been so blind and that there you know they're, not all right.
Sir many of them are left of center and I meet many of these people. So I have the experience that I think you're referring to, which is. When you meet people phase two phase, you don't find a ton of takers, for you know the d platforming of everyone, and you know, threats of violence in response to people, like you know, Ben Impero or Charles Murray, when they come to a college campus yeah, but the effect of the minority that does this is, is pretty extreme and and occasionally you do meet the people who appear to have been fully after me. What would like, if you go to like the TED Conference, that this is so woke now it is oppressive. I mean every single talk that touches raised. Howell publicly is just the mean that there's there is is no realistic discussion of anything. It is just a very expensive virtues, virtue, signalling performance,
and you know I say this as a as a fan of TED who you know has spoken there and who and and now and I gotta go as an attendee. Most years I mean I'm, I I I wanted to succeed, but with the the call conversation that I mean it really is a kind of caricature of the elite conversation that is being had and being maligned. You know you know outside that the outside those particular tents, whether it's TED or Davos, or anywhere else- and you know you, then you have the the the reaction to it, which is trump, and you know people like MIKE Cernovich and it means like it, but they all have a point, because it really is that skewed inside some of those tents and- and so you know that that's I I spend more time there than I spend in the heart end of America, meeting people who actually voted for Trump, but
you can see what they're tired of when you when you go in my circles. I complete leave on board with the idea that these sort of fringe and emblematic events and examples that you talk about are extremely sort of motivating, but motivating is not the right word, maybe activating or catalyzing, for the people that you listed for whether it's true voters or certain of its followers or whoever that part. I agree with. I guess where I from a pragmatic perspective, think about this. Is I like like to consider myself a critic of the left in the areas where I think that it's deserved. I eye to not only be focusing on the areas of the left. That think are problematic, but I want want to be doing it in a proportion that I think makes sense, given the influence I believe it has, and on a lot of these areas. I am just not there in terms of believing that the influence is what
say that it is again to some degree. My focus here is to sorted by my own experience. My is is my being someone with a fairly large platform, who has been repeatedly attacked for beliefs, that I don't old right and don't even don't even remotely hold sure so and so I'm attacked. As you know, I mean as of last week. I think it was. I decided that the best use of my podcast was to get on there and and speak for for five minutes about why I'm not a white supremacist right- and this is just after having looked at what's been said about me on Reddit for continuously ever since I, Charles Murray on my podcast in over a year ago, it was two years ago, I've forgotten so,
and this is what you know- and this is this is mainstream. I mean this. There was a Washington Post article written about me and a few other people again last week ascribe to us and the we were basically the gateway to the radical racist right. You know the altar right, the neo I mean it's, I'm part of this same conversation for having had Charles Murray on my podcast and spoken honestly about the science, and you know I have zero interest in the topic of race and Q. I have a lot of interest in the topic of the suppression of free speech and and just open inquiry, and so I had I had Murray on my podcast after he had been attacked at Middlebury in it physically attacked at Middlebury to five years after he wrote his offensive book
and then, as I'm sure you know, Ezra Klein wrote several Arctic attacking me essentially as a racist. You know, or is a racialist pseudo scientist knowing full well that all his readers would read racialist as as a synonym for racist and in and to follow. On directly from that I have the southern Poverty law center. Putting me on their hate watch page. You know as a result of Ezra's articles right. So you know thirty years from now my now read in my obituary that you know I was repeatedly was by accusations of racism. It will be because of people- I guess recline and I'm you know, given that I've taken elaborate steps to be very hard to cancel. I can weather this, but most people can't write and most people wouldn't want to- and I hear from people here from
absolutely top shelf- mainstream bestselling scientists who really take my side in that particular dispute right the people who don't want to go on record, who will privately after something like that happens to you you hear from you know everyone I mean just then the most famous scientist you can think of who want to privately tell you that they take. They take your side in this, but they don't want to. They don't want to touch the topic with a ten foot pole because they they their they perceive themselves. You know whether this is true or not. In many cases it is, but they perceive themselves to be vulnerable. You know, and if they're tenured they just don't want the mob to come for them right, and so this is.
This is an utterly mainstream that this the silencing effect, is utterly mainstream, whether it's easy for people to notice. What are the topics you think? It's! It's not okay! To talk about under this paradigm of what you see on the left, left's attempt to suppress certain conversations um. Well I mean it's sort of everything in it is look at Dave Chapelle. So last special did you. Did you watch that I've only seen the first ten minutes so far? Okay, you're! Then you you want you want yet into the ah the swampy he because racing through but yeah I mean it's yeah. I thought it was very funny and very brave by it and something that could not have been accomplished by most other comics write me again, he's sort of an cancelable, and so it's
he also has the freedom it as a comic to take risks that you I can't take, but there are very few comics who could have on so hard at these issues. You know we may may be richer. Vases is another one, but you know that others would have. You know the put on their last special for Netflix had they had, they received the blowback he's getting so uh. I anything to do with race and gender and gender. Any inconvenient. Finding from science that could just come to went out of the lab could prove be a kind of political emergency, and we never know where these are going to come from point I made decline, for which he had no response in the podcast we did and who would think that this is even
you know on the map to be worried about, but I pointed out that in two thousand and fourteen, when we finally got a a genome sequence for Neanderthal, DNA was found that basically everyone on earth, except for people who are directly descended from Africa, something like you know, two dot, seven to three percent neanderthal DNA and at the time I tweeted attention all racists. You were right. Whites are special, we're part, neanderthal, blacks, are just human right and that's me being up taking a an unprovoked dig at the races of the world and just kind of goofing on this. This line about neanderthal dna, but I asked you know Ezra, and I ask you know every and to imagine what would have happened
and the data fallen, the other way what, if only black people, were part, neanderthal. What, then, what happens to the scientist? Who finds that? What happens to the journalist who report we know what we absolutely know, what happens to them? Write their careers are over in the current environment. That's completely insane it. It doesn't matter, who's part neanderthal right. It can't matter we have to get. We have to get ourselves to a political part of the land where we are are not vulnerable to what ever happens to it, to fall out of yeah and interrogate an honest interrogation of the picture of reality right, and it was just so this stuff is going to keep coming, especially out of behavioral genetics. I mean that's going to be unless we're ready to absorb it. That is going to be a fount of toxicity right. When you
think, though, along these lines about the policy that as someone on the left you would like to see adopted, are there ways specifically in which these idea is or untouchability on? You mentioned race, gender and inconvenient science? Is this affecting sort of mainstream leftist policy seed, eight in a significant way, and I'm asking it not rhetorically? I mean I'm actually asking in in thinking through the platforms of people who are you know wanting to be the democratic nominees, for example, for president or running at the state level, for the senator the House of Representatives, our to whatever degree you and I might agree or disagree that these perspectives exist on the left. Are they entering into the mainstream pop? See discussion yeah? Well, I would raise another category which has been very influence.
Well, that's religion, specifically Islam, so yeah. I think the fact that Hillary Clinton did not become president was is over determined. There are many reasons why that happened, but one reason was that she had abs, nothing sensible to say about the link between jihadism and jihadist violence and the doctrine of Islam right so in the immediate. In the immediate aftermath of Orlando, at that point, the biggest the worst being in american history, all she could say was don't be racist and Islam is a religion of peace right, and at that point it was absolutely clear that that was just a you know. Hallucination of woke miss right that Jimmy did no one could even imagine she believed, but she was just paying lip service to. What do you know the the
of American Islamic relations demand and- and you know what the left demands, what the left demands that you know that we label any scrutiny any special screw any of Islam as soon Thomas with racism or motivated by racism. Can you be more specific, though, SAM about? Because because when you say the left, I try I try to avoid any generalizations of that kind, because I'm on the left- and I don't do those things- and I I I don't agree with those perspectives- and often I I suffer the repercussions can. Is there any more narrow way in which we can define where we find these elements of the left. I mean you mentioned academia, but it's it's. Not all academia, at least not in my experience, how we'd be able to narrow, where this is coming from. Well, most certainly most the fact that Islamophobia is a a word
that is now just used as intended as a a term of propaganda that conflates any criticism of Islam is a set of doctrines with big three against Muslims. As people write the fact, the fact that Islam Phobia rolls off the the keyboards of look at the New York Times as easily as Anti Semitism. That is a you know that the new status quo, which contains the problem. Alright, we will pause my interview with SAM Harris there. We spoke for nearly ninety minutes and you can find the entire interview on our Youtube Channel at Youtube. Dot com, slash the David Packman, show, make sure you're subscribed and watch the full interview there. We will have another large piece of this interview on tomorrow's show, but already available today on our Youtube Channel, the full into you with SAM Harris will take a quick break and be back right after this
David Pakman show at David Pakman dot com. If you're wondering how does the David Pakman show afford to exist, the answer is mostly through memberships and patriotic. You can support the work we do by signing up for membership, that joint packman dot com or pledging as little as a dollar a month at patriot, dot com, Slash David Pakman, show perks, include the daily bonus, show the commercial free, audio and video feeds of the show and the positive feelings that come from doing the right thing and making hay tree. It's cry through your support of independent progressive media Joe
been today at Join Pakman, dot com and patrie on dot com. Slash David Pakman show the David Pakman show David Pakman dot com. So at first, when Fox NEWS host Shepherd Smith to criticize Trump here. Are there a call out some obvious from lie? It was sort of a curiosity, and it's now happening in such a way that I'm increasingly convinced that this is actually part of a crafted strategy around Shepard Smith. I've got a clip for you here where Shep Smith straight up calls Donald Trump's, Hurricane Hurricane Dorian, sharpie fiasco, so fake news defined, and we have to really understand this for what it is. But first, let's look at the clip. Remember this is on right Wing Fox, some things in Trumplandia or inexplicable. This week's edition
the president's ongoing claim that Alabama was at risk from Hurricane Dorian. It wasn't, we got some bad info from somebody, maybe be made a mistake. Maybe he was confused, we don't know, but he was wrong and it's for days and days he's been insisting with fake visual aids in hand that he was right and then call at what it is fake news defined. Why would president of the United States do this nice fake news that isn't and disseminates fake news? That is. Thank China pays the tariffs. The wall is going up. His store configuration crowds, Russia probe, is a witch hunt. You need an id to buy cereal noise from windmills causes cancer. It's endless now the sharpie map that Hurricanes Alabama a reporter asked him about it. That map for you doing today, looks like it's almost like a. I don't know, I don't know he won't let it go yesterday. He brought out another map and a statement that reads this.
This was the originally projected path of the hurricane in its early stages. As you can see my all models predicted, it would go through Florida and hitting Georgia and Alabama. I accept the fake news. Apologies. This is where one where he could apologize and just move on that map was from they Hurricane became a hurricane eight days ago August the 28th. It was four days old at the precise time and he said Alabama would likely be hit harder than anticipated and by then it was fake news defined on a very serious subject. This is not yep Smith, stepping out of line with disdain against his bosses at Fox NEWS. It's abundantly clear that this is happening with Fox NEWS is executives approving at least implicitly, and I've been telling you this for nearly two years. At this point, I get emails from people. How is Shep getting away with this? Isn't Shep potentially going to get fired?
We need to reset our analysis of how corporate media works. Fox news wants to make money. Above all else, they've decided to do this with right wing editorial positions in general. They are not married to Trump, but they are right wing, but they also benefit from having some ideological cover, especially when it seems that they may break with the Trump train. So what you need to understand is that Shep Smith provides ideological cover to Fox news with safe, calculated descent from the everything Trump says is gospel, active what you see with Sean Hannity engineer, hero and Laura Ingraham and many others, Shep Smith, isn't going to do anything would really damage Fox NEWS like, for example, chefs not going to call out the lack regulation that allows corporate media outlets to become so big in monopolistic and be so intertwined with government,
internet service providers and ultimately foment narratives that don't challenge their privileged status. His legacy corporate media he's never going to do that. Trump will tell one thousand lies and every once in awhile chef will call one or two of them out for being lies. It will get some people on the left to reconsider whether Fox NEWS is as bad as we think it is. It will get some discussion about. What's going on on Fox NEWS, it will get some right, wingers, saying homophobic things about Shepard Smith and calling for his firing. Yes, the biggest thing that this does is create some deniability for Fox NEWS to say: look we don't all this carry water for Trump. We don't always defend everything, a Republican does, so our analysis must account for the end game in the short run at the micro level. It's good to expose some trumpists watching fox to a tiny dose of reality in the big picture. Shep Smith, on Fox NEWS, occasionally telling someone controversial truth.
Un controversial tow us that is, is not going to change the role that Fox NEWS in the corporate media space plays and that's the analysis that I've been making for a long time to the extent that someone's echo chamber might be pierced by Shep. Great, maybe it'll bring a little small electoral advantage in two thousand and twenty. If enough trump ists have their echo chamber pierced by Shep Smith, but it does nothing to achieve the wholesale reform goals and d corporatization and d propaganda, ization of corporate profits, drip media that we've been talking about, and it's really important merely to acknowledge, what's happening with Shep for what it is and not go beyond that, because it simply doesn't make sense, and it's not actually born out by the facts. Phone number is two thousand one hundred and ninety two David P take a listen to this voice, mail that I received very interest.
Take on. Ah the entire theme song stuff that we've been talking about. Take a listen to this David David. I was just watching your Youtube videos. Did I miss something with their song contest that I missed out on it? I hope it's not too late to enter. But what do you think about this? One? Okay, I've been working on for the last like a whole three minutes, David pack me. The army's Jews bringing new done. You will all. I think that, and you look well right now well. Well, I'm a big fan of you, I'm glad you keep it almost. If you walk out like yours,
all free you, don't even gotta put my name on it. You can actually look at worried about this. Is it? Why does it? Why does it need to be qualified? Whether a jewish person is honest? That's a little weird but in any case we're keeping the theme song we have. We are not accepting new submissions at this time. I I do appreciate it to the extent that this was genuine. We have a great bonus show for you today, sign up that's going to happen, dot com or at Patrie on dot com. Slash David Pakman show both will give you instant access. Yes, to the bonus show many important stories to be discussed there today the David Pakman show at David Pakman, dot com
Transcript generated on 2019-09-13.