Baz Luhrmann is an Australian director whose debut film, Strictly Ballroom, became one of Australia’s most successful releases, and also inspired the title of the BBC’s popular Saturday night dance show. He went on to direct Romeo + Juliet, Moulin Rouge!, the Great Gatsby and, more recently, Elvis starring Tom Hanks and Austin Butler. Baz was born Mark Andrew Luhrmann in 1962. His friends nicknamed him Baz after the puppet Basil Brush because of his unruly hair. When he was five the family moved to Herons Creek, a remote settlement in New South Wales. Several years later Baz started ballroom dancing after he picked up a leaflet advertising classes while travelling on a bus. At drama school in Sydney he devised a play called Strictly Ballroom with his fellow students and later wrote a screenplay with his school friend Craig Pearce. The film was screened at the Cannes Film Festival in 1992 where it received a rapturous response and went on to win eight Australian Film Institute awards and three BAFTAs. Baz’s most recent film, Elvis, tells the life of Elvis Presley from the perspective of his infamous manager Colonel Tom Parker, played by Tom Hanks. The film has been a commercial success – making almost $300 million around the world to date. In addition to making feature films Baz has directed theatre and opera productions. He lives mainly in New York with his wife and frequent collaborator, the production designer Catherine Martin, and their two children. DISC ONE: Changes by David Bowie DISC TWO: One by John Farnham DISC THREE: Spanish Flea by Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass DISC FOUR: Suspicious Minds by Elvis Presley DISC FIVE: Puccini: La Boheme / Act 1 - 'Che gelida manina' by Luciano Pavarotti DISC SIX: Unfinished Sympathy by Massive Attack DISC SEVEN: Lady Marmalade by Christina Aguilera, Lil' Kim, MYA, Pink DISC EIGHT: No Church in the Wild by JAY Z, Kanye West, Frank Ocean, The-Dream BOOK CHOICE: War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy LUXURY ITEM: A silk eye mask CASTAWAY'S FAVOURITE: Puccini: La Boheme / Act 1 - 'Che gelida manina' by Luciano Pavarotti Presenter Lauren Laverne Producer Paula McGinley
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Previously sounds music radio broadcasts, hello, I'm Lorna van and this is the desert island discs podcast. Every week I ask my guest to choose the eight tracks book and luxury they want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island and for right reasons the me It is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening. I, My castaway this week is the directive passed.
herman, he describes as films as an emotional banquet spectacle, theater and big bold ideas, eyes calling card, but he developed his outsize aesthetic appetite somewhere very small, a town called herons. Creek too, miles north of sydney growing up there, his family run numerous enterprises, including the local cinema and in a bid to to their rural isolation. His father income, bosnia's siblings, to sign up for every activity going scuba, diving, painting, commando training on both we dancing. The vicious you d encountered in that competitive world inspired his davy film, strictly ballroom the local movement, was sceptical, but it turned into one of the most successful australian films ever he He says obsessed with giving misunderstood or moribund concepts and new life strictly It ballroom, dancing cool. They followed up by taken shakespeare to the top of the american box office, chart with romeo and juliet and reviving the fortunes of the biggest
in musical with moon andrews, he saw his home can with fresh eyes in australia and brought jazz age access to the great Let's be more recently, he reassessed an american icon. Elvis for new generation ass for his motives. and he says I'm from the planet audience I'm faraway gazing at everything, and it all looks amazing to me Thus, lemon welcome to desert island is well, I mean listening, you describe Me growing up small gas station on the side of my way. I guess I did come from a desert island exam, if tundra tundra of sorts, if you're the perfect guest today for all sorts of reasons- and that is among Nimbuzz. But let's start with with the romance that is at the heart of. so much of your were. Why is that such a creative driver for you, I have to admit I am a romantic and romanticism just means you kind of want or see things better,
they actually can or are it's a heightened sense of the world and of life and of love when you come to create these units, it is on screen. They are enormous. I mean does that this gale of what you're trying to achieve ever? Don't you not daunted by those two. I would like to remind you, as you like, we believe the musical can work again, but I'll. Do that really easy one? What would shakespeare do if he was dear movie, raymond, Juliet? That should be quite small and easy to do cut to me in mexico with a young act, and all of you know, helicopters and pay shooting- and you know- and I recognise that someone is some sky- but I'm so in the middle of it. I never think like that, but you never doubt yourself never feel unsure, because you you are in control of some. If they insecurity, because I people say oh also feel as and that's not true, I get be Jamie's and I get my but I see my job as packing
my fear away they say remember: it's called screen play. We are but players when kids play there, play. It is scared and we'll play for living. So keeping fear away is my job. One of the many aspects of your films that you take great pains to make sure is perfect the soundtrack- and of course you know u, yours sharing your discs with us. What do you get out of the sharing music and choosing music that you dont get from looking for a lens I see music as the fabric of storytelling. Not background is the wallpaper zone and after thought, you go into the world of, say, gatsby, the fishing do- is absorb every piece of jazz every kind of musical and It's around to me, as I the same as reading text Paz it's time for your first disc. What are we going to hear and why am I I was in the vietnam war. He was very anti hippy here. Very anti the alternatives and we have very short here. We were beaten up for it. It was a really big difficulty for us
to be socially accepted. So one day we gotta these friends house and they lived in homer, Coronel surface and though it down says, and they were probably smoking weed. a re was re, dark and gloomy endeavours. Upstairs speaking, do you know the pair and a narrow, huddled in the corner and I heard the opening bars of this track, you're about to hear and his voice, and it scared me- and yet I was compelled towards it and of course it was David bows changes his influence on an entire generation, because what he said to our generation was you didn't have to be one person. You could continue to experiment with your hair. You look how you felt you've gone to different characters. That was new
That was different. One sentence is gonna, have a name Changes by David boy. Islam and you were born mark andrew lemon in sydney in nineteen. Sixty two, you actually acquired the nickname buzz at school because he friends thought you had hair like basil brush out. When you were five, the family moved to herons creek. Why did they move there? They love the navy lie, but the trauma of vietnam and all of that he drank law, and that too I don't know. I mean the myth that whether a myth or not. They want to get away from it all and they go to try move up their own business and they end up trying to buy one
they find these tiny, absolutely ramshackle, like you can imagine it look like, I have a horror movie and I like it, sort of one she likes at the gas station and it said for alpha two thousand, what they buy the gas station. This one industry- as that was done, the navy, where they transformed into these caravans here and I'm not kidding, there's a restaurant. and then we had a supermarket and then he flowers and in all the brothers we could. Corn and then we had the big farm and that we have the horses, but we will have our business and I bread tropical fish in my young birds and love others who go on forever a whole family. You kind of these. I think you ve described yourself as the renascence plays a varens craig. I caught a true like this escaping your imagination because of the constraints of being on a desert island it really was isolated? It took us two hours to go to school and the first hour on the bus. There was nobody on the bus just a theory. It sounds like your dad was,
creating his own weldon away. You absolutely did that an mom. She was also quite the star. She was at the start of her and said and then she had addressed sharpen. You know this, it was pretty nonstop and unlike building worlds and fantasies and doing magic shows making films like dad, told me very early on how to process a box brownie forty join us an unstoppable photographer and filmmaker that, you, u. Dont also sounds like he had this extraordinary drive. I mean you. Ve said he was a military man and not that discipline was something he absolutely under did huge discipline and also a ridiculously softer. It was funny combo. The drive was now like five aim in the morning: bang bang, bang bang. They went to wash clause and work just work before us. Like him to the gouging clean the thing louder than about above a, but there was also like when I found a born dancing fly on the on the bottom of the bass now's. Every night is every second, I dropped,
today is about hugely support, anything that, like developmental, all possible, all you know to be believed in, so then tell me about the drama in environs creek. Where did the drama come from your in this, this small player that Israel, this this world that your dad's cream, I mean lie. There are accidents like people were killed in front of us. There was a whole system we have when we heard the consumption of a car. There was a bridge of faulty bridge, for into the river, and my older brother's job is to run with dad. I had to get I had to get on the phone call, the local policeman. It was only one policeman. My younger brother had the torch that was full of adventure. All right password can go to the music. Now it's disk number t. What have you got for us and why taking it to the desert island to die? Well, dad had an akai reel to reel, so he was really big on on music and sound. He was really big on music, so I rigged up the speakers, and I have my own room your station emulate welcomed a radio emma be ion,
that seven, you know and they be people get a gas pumped, and yet, let's hear that great John fallen drag its one, he's. The man in rome was only have one record. It was a forty five and I got my Other actually read the news and he was so poor. you know when he was and when it was a great reader and was like hi. This is islam and all we're gonna. Tell you the sports news today. It would go on for like two hours. I said well enough with this post back to that great he had put two in front as is as november, that me ass. Well ass, the most experienced I know one is alone is number and there let's go there.
Bullets joan, find him and one so muslim and, as you said, you started into ballroom dancing classes as a kid did you loved straight away? and behold cut working class theatre really because you dress up you'd, where a tuxedo and you did competitions and yeah? Oh yeah, I mean I was pretty good. There's pictures of me with lots of trophies and it was romantic and it was really heightened. Do not dimensional those, you know, sequence and sparkles overheads. Well, you know understanding cubic feet of sequence. Yeah. It was a world. Yet again it was the world and it was escaping into a world and it was losing yourself in a world. So, as I talk to you doctor, I feel like we're getting to the to the heart of the matter. Why does I certainly feel like I'm starting to come to an understanding myself and you well change, though, when you were twelve youtube,
parents divorced. You and your mother returned to sydney with your sister and you and your two brothers stayed with your father and in herons creek. That must have been a very tough time for you. It was true dramatic world was ripped into because your reality is defined by appearance, parents, the solid none of that, and it was very acrimonious in august. then they had a relationship with its other woman. Lucky found in another partner after the break up she had to do so these disrupted our world even more, because, even though was tough was a moral universe. That was absolutely clearly understood you now he was how he was in love and sorted that is something we are then. When europe, kid and your dad's going to what can I borrow some earrings? Would you tell that great you'll be like vodka? So gavel What kind of affected did that have on you didn't? Do you, I think, for a moment to shoot? Look. I always felt I was
he's gonna go down that yellow brick road to the emerald city and that's what they used to call sidney. I dont ever remember having a cap on my believe that, I would be were solar, where I am today, like maybe better. I never thought I'd dangerous craig. the world that I imagined or sore in the movies all created. I just was always heading towards it was so catalysts for going right, I'm on the way down the road, and I don't think I've ever stopped. Actually I went past the emerald city and just keep going it's time to think about. for some amazing bass lemon your third choice today. What is it and why a few conference, my muse, Dna came when dive and off the vietnam war. He pulled back but was killed in a car a real to real. Now this is a large machine. and it had real to real tapes in it and quadriplegic sound, and you could record on it, you can imagine what that piece of tech meant to us how
just seem like from the year two thousand when a space policy, and it had a date that came with it, though, and part of it was according to the sound of the bullet drink. You know instead of running, but one thing I had on it was heard of it. when a brass when we move to the country the uk came with us. We ran it now little restaurant and I was out of the way tat? We had sizzle places like this, like precocious problem, eleven year old where to go now. Will that be with you? rooms and design, but do rose by a lot spanish fleets, The the
spanish fleet, I heard our ports and the tea her won. A brass buzz lohmann when you have fifteen, you left you dad inherent creek and run away to sydney. Why did you go there was this flashpoint where dad new wife, I wasn't cunt my room enough and he locked away all my precious photography stuff in boxes and was kind of a punished. and then I write down a night s so dramatic. I write a note. Let left in a sort of a paltry, All that I made you know I'm set about it to this day, because we didn't speak for ten. This is something that I got on a bus Don't need to go on a holiday, but I didn't I didn't. I never returned and mom said. Look. I've got enough a flat at the back of the how's, which was itself contains flat as loans
go back to school, which I did and I went to christian brothers college to begin with, which was an all boys which was a shock from the school I was going to cause. Who else was really innovative and it was next to a sort of, can you imagine a very british like school, your uniform and it was I reckon there was just like darkness? I am fact in gatsby gaspe mansion is the basis of the building of the school that big, costly place. Anyway I have my own flat. Come back with mom and I was away with like I was spent more time doing, theater and stuff in the city than I did actually at school, and then this miraculous thing. Happens where I said a mom, I'm going now I will get into the national institute of dramatic art and she was sure sure sure. So I go an audition. I was in high school and I didn't get. And unlike while this is not going something's rock thyself,
you must have the singular, renewing a sort of go like the way my movie in my head. Do you know that I'm not very good with plot twists and but I'd also audition for this thing and I come home and I get a phone call. This is actually on the day of coming up. My cousin he came in and read for this row opposite Judy Davis and Judy Davis was an ass. She just been a david lean movie and she's enacting god in Austria. Will you ve got? the role. So when a week later, I was on the said in a movie pass. As you said, you didn't speak today for many years: but you were later reconciled five, any move to an island of queensland. So what happened? I just have this hankering of see dad and I just one day went to the ilo then walked in and it was if we'd never a day had passed and he was white ashen, the dog to sleep, shocked, and it was just a fantastic rapprochement, but he pretty quickly said to get kansas.
melanoma, is an actually damage to hang on to c mon rouge. But on the first day of shooting, I saw the mobile phone. You know what that man, so for the rest of my life, I should just stopped working to stay the process of mourning in varying him, and all that let's have some music. You fourth choice today. What is it Why are you taking it with? Well, I have to bring Elvis into it because I've been living here of his will for five years now. Twenty four seven seven days a week and one of the big storytelling moments is colonel tom bugger, never colonel, never domino, rebecca portmanteau, hanks, and is the soul of it, which is this extraordinary person, Elvis but the song suspicious minds. I use it dramatically because when he says I'm caught in a trap, I can't get out. We see the colonel to unpack, assigning him into a lifelong contract at they held motel, because a colonel Let us leave the country because the colonel
colonel. Never tell never forget spoke earlier I can pay walk after watching suspicious mines, elvis presley does lemon. You did eventually go to drama school and it was then that devised to play with your fellow students called strictly ballroom. Then you wrote screenplay with friend craig pious, but next? It was really how to get financed and then, when we finally got financed tragically tat, I would die tat out. I had little band called DC and they actually funded part of strictly more in the phone,
so a cd safe, funded strictly will yes, our records, and I see this. It was a big money. Why are they still there today and we made a film cut to eventually all the bits in the struggle, the struggle, the story we finally screen it to the one guy who's. Given us one sentiment of screening and I kind of throw up cause, I'm so nervous. He it is here is that if the worst move I've ever seen and you ve destroyed pat replace the months career doesnt learn that a year later, she dies before she lives at sea. Winds, best actors for that role, and I terrible we go. because I'm cutting my hair off. I met a trailer park. Guy gets killed by a coconut, one rings on a bike like an always is, as as I got, the phone and I'm holding a bucket, I'm here because only killed by a coconut- and I hear a french voice is my name. Is The regime from the ghent film festival and I'm gonna give you two have book. Screening the rest is history. We have the first
screening and there's a great reaction, but isn't about two thirds full unprecedented. They come for a second screening and there's a riot trying to get in this is on foot We were rising to try and get into the movie and a french security guard grabbed me. Any sort of drags me monsieur from this moment on your life will never be the same, and it and really it's time for the next piece of music. What prompted you to choose this one? Actually I had this experimental theatre company unexplained opera company, and I done this labelling production, which was somewhat revealed as a bit of it terry was controversial at first and then we will go on to be on broadway and my thing was actually cost young and actually bring acting into it. I mean how I get into these messages. I don't know but I remember the iraq. The first iraq war had broken out and went out production I will just sort of a stripped down breakdown kind of version of it. With his young single
There were more letters to the australian, which is our big paper. about Allah whim, then the iraq war breaking out. You know it was such a controversy and the critic had weighed in and said it was the worst thing that could ever happen to opera, but Joan sutherland. Who is it? I can't she's out there with maria callous wit and sword images of dumping. John, please don't don't come. You hate modern productions, and she said I think it's amazing and that was the beginning. My opera career, the. The, The the
the puccini's Hey jelly jamb now from Lapo m performed by Luciano pavarotti, with the benefit of monica conducted by herbert fun. Carryin. Tell me little bit about your partnership with See em you, your wife, you after martin, because she's a design should work with you. Since you met in the late eightys. I want to try and understand how that creative partnership works. I was doing strictly ballroom
I have my own theatre company. I was doing all that stuff. When I started that company I thought I'd want to inherit all the generations. I want to find someone. that can grow with me and there was. I went back to my drama school and there was the editor, I still say, look this girl and a guy and they're outstanding and the girl had made a design projection design student were a fridge ate her like fridge eats hmm she's meant to come upstairs when we're having an hour meeting, and I think four hours later we still talking about bertolt brecht and madonna, and that conversation has continued since then. So we start his collaboration We have our world, we have our relationship, it's very real. It's very particular and I think, like all great relationships, they're mysterious to everyone else, but the people that are in them so you've got these T. Rex
ordinarily creative people full of ideas, sharing a life both professional and personal? I mean I've read that you do need to have your own space that you're on your own kind of bedroom, separate flaws you can you I mean anyway, would need look, look, look and was gonna Are they really together? I mean someday I and we leave such a big live, and we have these two Ids and the rolling stones have rolling stones time in know and everybody else where we have banned seem to like it. We do not. We go to a hotel out like a normal house like it's full of creators and kids and unclear dignity and I work in my bedroom. I mean my bedrooms. I'd large create, space- and I am I like to grow old disgracefully, so I don't mind admitting I still to get out there and club and mean I've he'll get like really, but I can't help it, and so I'm a late night, guided insomnia and she's a very early morning. Person and we still are having their conversation and there is
still a great love and romance between us. I mean love transforms as you grow you teenage love is champagne, love and so zones of war, but the depth of our relationship in our understanding I just saw I'm very quickly when I, whatever ever construct, is identity. I want to die when you're not around. That's how important she's my time here next choice, paths which I think relates to anyone making the film meal and Juliet I was in miami and sam was with me, we come actually from verona. She would sleep. And I'm insomniac cause. I told you and I'd be up all night and just you know we're up some agrees houses. One room, hotel called the colony on sobie beach and that literally like was so corny a red flashing neon light, but I always listen to music
just try and use music. So what is the vibe of this? I was listening to the orcs venus as a boy and this other band called massive attack, and I keep playing this unfinished sympathy track. I think, I made this music so when I go to make the movie I'm going to I'm going to track this person down and someone called nelly, who, I think, is a woman and probably from Jamaica, I dunno why I got to meet they're my like. How does one dress may the nail you uncle studio or like no way is this really by doing this go on my yes, I am I get out, and I mean this guy and he's wearing exactly the same deal suit that I am that's got kind of stripes in it and it looks a bit like made about. They may just now. You ve analyses to collaborators maria de vries and craig Armstrong they but go on become thumb. Compose right, craig works with me for is that it was this song. The poorest
whether the massive attack and unfinished sympathy bachelor man, you've talked about going through depression at times. How do you keep your equilibrium? I think artists well auditor from an artist, but I think people who are big holes in it It's anna trying to fill it with imagination, creativity, whatever that is, or song whatever it is. The same
medication is the creative process. I mean your medicating because you get lost in a world you're so absorbed in the impossible that you really not thing about yourself. But when you come off that I mean there's this sort of decompression process, it can send you to a place where, whatever it is, you fall back into the hall. So you have to do is over. again, when I didn't milan rules. For example, I went on the train. siberian. Expresses I'll. Take your credit card, a backpack, and I have to deal with myself,
I happen to have a ball and red australian one. Someone gave me in beijing and this new invention called the ipod. There was some music on it and there were two record books. One was the great gatsby and I thought I didn't really get that book at school. Put it on birch trees, which you know oh that'd, make a great movie got lost in that world and so having clean the slate. I think my sinuses were ready to go into another world like a hermit crab to inhabit another shell. He defied critics one set of your films, they don't talk, the shout. Does that hurt it desert? But not me what's frustrating, but it's not me, but all the people. I've lived down the road, particularly like a new actor or or even the finance, They believed in you and I've gone out on a limb, so I have to go out and do hand to hand combat to make sure that the vessel is not being the dead like a baby, well because some guy wasn't hasn't his homework or justice needs.
hey, you know like it shouldn't be about I think there are a great critics actually and they just do their job, really well and earn a lot of them into really do it well, but they do they re do their homework and I might go not my taste, but I can see What is going on here? As far as how that goes, I just leave that for history. You know it's up to history is decide whether the underlying notions or the underlying big ideas have relevance of presence or residence Letty annex piece of music bass. What have you got for us and why you taking it to the island in milan rouge? There was the preposterous can see that we are christian, opened his mouth and outcomes twentyth century music. But I needed is number, so those is young power, balancing unknown heard of cold pink the time rainy as far as lie you know was, was christian aguilera little king was, is really edgy, wrapper and maya was his kind of iron based on so that what we put them together,
mama lad was a song that I just thought was perfect and we are not that some are, but we on a few summers who have track. It was just one of those things: click. You wanna get more, Lady Mamma had performed by pink christina. Equally Maya and little came from the soundtrack to milan rouge bathroom and you have a huge monday international korea stilled such a love of your home country.
As we said, ravi, you gotta have your usual wings. That's when the last, but you've got to have your roots too. If you lose your roots, you pro, I think I did lose them actually, in my fifty some way I was quite is planted in they. Pandemics brought many civil. Lines with all the tragedy that, with it was burdened with one of them was actually we found ourselves in the least likely plays in queensland, when my father is from an different ways? The whole families fall in love with the energy and freshness and the just the vitality cause if, as far as having I love australia, but we live in Australia. We live in Europe. I always wanted that balance between new york and Australia, but journeying through the other countries in between it's this thing of never of being an unsettled spirit. You know I can't be. I can't be in a place longer than three months or it's too much Well is it might get tricky because I'm about to cast you away to brand new home on the desert island? What are your thoughts about its being stranded that I dont think amended
rollin guy. Actually I grew up on a desert island. What doesn't solve it for me is sitting under cocoanut tree with the laughing water. I would rather, be out diving in the water. Looking for a sunken treasure. Well, I hope you find it, but before that we ve got some music to listen to what you final choice. Today when I was working gatsby, its jail puts edgy black street music into the book and a lot of critics go. Why are you doing that? It's a fad, you know it's called jazz, rightly says because that's what's making us more than that's. What's in the air, and that's when J Zayas introduced josie, I knew beyond say we work together before and gestures. We gotta do this. We're gonna make it Pop and wherein the mercer hotel he use recording, had what are these things just like this and is thus doing this rap into
at the end of the season. It was only like the recording system. Janna is sitting there and he goes don't don't, don't don't don't do it. I've got this be, and that was chechen a while. thanks once again to the gods in the wild by jesse, canny, west, the dream and featuring frank ocean, so buzz lemon. The time has come Well, I'm going to send you away to the island. I will, of course give you the books, the bible, the complete works of shakespeare and one of your choice. What will it be? I think I want to read something
what I've always wanted to read, but was too frightened to read because it'd be too big. Although war and peace is a cracker of a story, I'll take war and peace, and you can also have a luxury item to make life more enjoyable, often sensory stimulation. It would be very soft and perfectly bound First silk. I'm asked, I guess I can stick cocoanut frogs in my is sound, but the eyes alight affects me. I cannot have a crack of light or, conversely, now now obsolete yoga. Of those nice, potted ones lavender and been like a luxury item and finally, which one track of the aid that you share with us today. Would you rush to save from the waves of of the rest when we finished Elvis we had his
want to party. We all went down to the ocean and the sun was coming up over the water. I never forget. I brought down a boombox and I played nessun dorma by pavarotti, no sleep tonight, so I would go with the puccini just because it would suit moonlight and lapping, is, and I know someone might hear me from far away income and rescue me. eleven. Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. I loved it. What a nice island to drop by the hello, allow hope enjoyed. My conversation with both fingers crossed he'll be lowered to sleep by the sound of them
big waves with castaway many directives, including state mcqueen, on an parker and as if the party you can find these episodes in our desert discs programme. All kinds and three bbc sounds the studio manager for today's programme was Donald mcdonald. The assistant produce it was Christine Pavlovsk ii on the producer is poor, making next time a guest will be edward and info editor in chief of british vote, I do hope. You'll join us. What happens when you combine darkshire can have is not overdoing it when they say it's. The greatest talk show on earth and poison world of don't painting has been rocks by claims that a prize winner at crops. was poisoned extraordinary behave in ages, some people a ruthless, the fear
real people- were much more protected. They didn't leave that opt for second new hothouse dead, competitive presented by may carry gaudy wow look out, on the oil is gonna run no on nor a real detective crofts, where every dog has its day. We'll try my best. I'm moving that to date, competitive on BBC sounds
Transcript generated on 2023-02-18.