Cate Blanchett is arguably the most celebrated Australian actor ever, winning two Academy Awards, three BAFTAs, three Golden Globes and dozens of other honours around the world. She grew up in Melbourne, and although she enjoyed music and drama at school, she initially had no plans to pursue a career as an actor. She started a degree course in economics and fine art, but dropped out after a year, and later won a place at the National Institute of Dramatic Art in Sydney. She found international fame before she was 30, playing Elizabeth I in the highly-acclaimed film Elizabeth, winning an Oscar nomination and a BAFTA. Since then, she has appeared in more than 70 films and 20 stage productions. She won an Oscar and a BAFTA for playing Katharine Hepburn in The Aviator, directed by Martin Scorsese, and other notable roles include the elf leader Galadriel in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings series and a version of Bob Dylan in I'm Not There. She won her second Oscar in 2014 for her performance in Woody Allen's Blue Jasmine. Her TV work includes the acclaimed series Mrs America, where she played the conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly, and she has recently taken on the role of an internationally famous composer and conductor in the film Tár, written and directed by Todd Field. Cate has received the Australian Centenary medal and is a Companion of the Order of Australia. She is married to the director and playwright Andrew Upton. DISC ONE: Mahler: Symphony No. 5 in C-Sharp Minor – II composed by Gustav Mahler, performed by Berlin Philharmonic and conducted by Claudio Abbado DISC TWO: Bésame Mucho by Trio Los Panchos DISC THREE: Tannhäuser: Pilgrims' Chorus composed by Richard Wagner and performed by Norman Luboff Choir, New Symphony Orchestra of London, conducted by Leopold Stokowski DISC FOUR: Go Tell the Women by Grinderman DISC FIVE: Proof by I am Kloot DISC SIX: Blow the Wind Southerly by Kathleen Ferrier DISC SEVEN: The Little Weaver Bird by Molly Drake DISC EIGHT: Lil' Darlin' by Count Basie And His Orchestra BOOK CHOICE: Hope in the Dark by Rebecca Solnit LUXURY ITEM: Time CASTAWAY'S FAVOURITE: Tannhäuser: Pilgrims' Chorus composed by Richard Wagner and performed by Norman Luboff Choir, New Symphony Orchestra of London, conducted by Leopold Stokowski Presenter Lauren Laverne Producer Sarah Taylor
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Previously sounds music radio broadcasts, hello, I'm lorna then- and this is the desert island discs podcast. Every week I ask my guest to choose the eight tracks book and luxury they want to take with them. If they were cast away to a desert island and for rights we, since the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening. I My castaway this week is the actor kate blanchett. She grew up in melbourne and is arguably the most celebrated actor her home country
He has ever produced appearing in more than seventy films and over twenty theatre productions playing everything from Elizabeth, the first and bob Dylan to the elf leader collateral impeded jackson's. Lord of the rings Jackson was so reluctant to let her go. They wrote her into the habit trilogy to other directives under her spell include martins cassese del. Horror, stephen soda bogan, spielberg, David Fincher, wet anderson and taught field who wrote her latest oscar tipped film ta just for her she's one acting awards. the doesn't. To give you some idea of the numbers. The performance woody allen blue jasmine that clinched her second oscar and her thirteen nineteen o the prizes, including a golden globe and laughter ass herself. However, she tends to playthings down. She says every time: finish. I think, that's it. I'm done I'm moving onto another chapter and then the conversation with someone and they have a window
well idea when they ask you something that is really weird and impossible anything. Oh ok, cape lunch. It welcome today's island discs. Thank you, so case how important is music to you. Ve played evasion of bob Dylan and and now you're in a film about a conductor toughen the starting point for me when thinking about a role or an atmosphere that your stepping into as an actor, because it obviously bypasses language and its economy. For memory and non linear connections. Oil, strange left field associations you might so to give birth to when you thinking about a role but having for children, I think in the last fifteen years the cons for me of being a mother of four children music, it sort of left my life bit and have been associated with work and now that they be no, they look
themselves in the room and talking to their girlfriends. It's come back into my life and it did in a powerful way when I played this role in in cornfields film. Tar now is playing the principal conductor of a a world, renowned or german orchestra and standing in front of their dresden, philharmonie playing marla yet powerfully reentered my life. It is extraordinarily powerful than you felt tell me a little bit about her ability to conduct in and having to learn that. Where did you turn for inspiration to music? It's a mix real out form. It's it's. When you say a conductor from the audience, they always look slightly a rhythmic call. You think. How are you a musician because you seem to be so out of time with what the orchestra is playing, but of course it obvious was an obvious, me, though, I'm being lay person not being a musician. Is that they're always ahead of a brands ahead of the orchestra, honestly preparing for the raw or listen to every single recording
every single rehearsal of every single mama symphony. I could get my hand on and they all sound different, of course, certain subtle ways, but it's because of the presence of the conductor and what they choose to focus on the music. but me I guess I'm more of a dance of that? I am a musician while Kate would be talking about music. I think we'd better here some it's time for your first disk would have chosen. Well, it's from mahler's fifth, which is very much at the heart of the film I'd, always loved it, and it seems It's an obvious choice, because it's so beloved by the general public and lita jetta specifically, is constantly played and so claimed by death in venice. It's a rehearsal movie, so we were rehearsing it. I wouldn't ever say a word. I was a musician, but the second movement was the most electrifying to play it so dynamic, it so full of emotional extremes and when we think about the fifth, we think about loss and but
also forget the joy and exhilaration of young love, and I mean uh, that's what I really felt sorry dynamic. the the the the
the The second movement from all is fixed symphony played by the berlin philharmonic conducted by Claudio Bardo. So Kate, let's go back to europe days. If you don't mind you, the middle child, born in melbourne, australia to june and robert, were you the kind of kid who was always in the dressing up box, always making up stories? I was all in the dressing up box of my sister. We had this game where dress me up shut me in front of the mirror. and give me a name. And then I had to inhabit that character, but as mostly sort outside or on Hannah. Tell me about your parents, gene and Robert Kate, with a creative people. It up is not the ties in I think near my dad's em had rather rough childhood on the streets of various towns in texas. Me was a childhood
neglect and he died at a very young age, moved back turned forty one. Yeah. I was ten yeah. He was in the navy actually and he was in the antarctic, decided to be a italian minister and his ship broke down, the EU s navy and not a moment porter. My mother was a teacher and she went down to the port with some friends. To find some men to come, their teachers dance, and he happened to be one of them. And I danced on item and they corresponded for a couple of years. And then he came back to australia and they decided to get hitched. It sounds like quite a love story. It was it was when you think back. How do you remember them together? You mom and dad there's a lot of dancing in my house a lot of music actually, It became quite silent after my dad died and actually remember the last time I saw him. I was playing the piano and he's going off to work he was in advertising and I wave goodbye. I stated the piano and memory
now see them up at movie and without one loved them up ass? I love them so much. I still do I think, I'm in Jim Hansen's and was an absolute genius and then before them up at me became nop it flashed on the bottom of the screen. Could mrs blanchett please come and see the manager and she did- and I realized later that day, that my father had a fatal heart attacks. Of course we didn't go back and see the muppet movie. I was thinking about it the other day obviously playing the piano again after so long and promising myself? I was going to go back in and pick it up again. Is that I loved it so much, and I think I stopped pretty much tonight. I just didn't go back to it and I wonder now as I myself on the couch. I wonder what is because I associated with the guilt of not getting up from the piano and kissing him go buy. You know you always think about this things. Don't you in strangely, I didn't think about it until you know until I actually sat down at the piano, my husband bought me a piano for my fiftieth birthday and I went I'm going to
I again and suddenly all of these memories come flooding back. Your relationships to instruments are so kind of them unconscious. In a way, I think, k. I think we'd better go to music. Your second choice would again here. This is a was an album that my dad had. Undone, it was paid a lot and I would always put it on and think of him. It's cumbersome nature. He grew up near the border of mexico and yes, I really reminds me of him it is. the more go,
is based on a mutual by trialist punch of springing back memories. Cate blanchett of your parents, dancing together losing your dad must have been incredibly hard on your mom, of course, and still with three children to bring up in you, you were just ten. How did you manage the hospital and someone who worked of my father, my mother, went off to sort of they had to turn off the life support since she left the room and this man who was so well intentioned. So sit down and said this is very difficult for your mother. You have to be very, very good, and it's so strange. I it made me think about how short life was and how much you but a crime into us, but also that sense of of You know living life, not just for yourself, but for the people you internalize that yeah. Of course it was difficult for my mom. We had this little box in the pantry. And had some nine slots and had little picture above every slot. That said, milk elect
city water and was a coin slots. and it had some trees and some weight should open the box and there Only a few brown coins in each of those things that you think. Ah, okay, so I better not waste. I'm not going to have this this weight of centuries. This week, yeah yeah were you. The kind of katie went for all of the parts in school plays and did you get them well all the parts in the school plays the organised by the teachers that went to the girls ready, confident popular good at sport, and I was not that, The first role I got in the school organise school play was fellow who shot small down in the inhabit aside. One line and I shoot. A bow and arrow was the last dramatic moment the play, and I guess I was a statue in the chronicles of narnia and I'd practice. My fishing for so long. I was in white like her, which no one looks good at particularly as an adolescent, girls and those stage manager, cutest late,
and so is climbing up on the rostrum, and I had this beautiful pose, planned and didn't have time to turn around. So all the audience sores MA bambi. It was having a third of its gonna laugh, which was, I will Ok, you know- and so I went into that, but I also realise that you know the teachers didn't know what to do with me. So then I started organizing plays with other girls and we did it ourselves, but for fun not to get anywhere. I think probably the most important creative outlet for me was when I finally got up the courage to audition for the choir. The music score was massive at my school. there was a choir of a programme. Two hundred and forty girls, and this formidable hurricane of musician, Jane, elton brown was absolutely terrifying, ran the music school and conducted the choir audition for her.
so she played you, know the pitchers and started down low and she looked at me. She kept going up higher and she stopped. She took off her glasses. You should you have a three octave range girl, and so I got into the choir. and I think it was the place where I realized the power of the ensemble You were making music together So when we sang in and unaccompanied way it was really electrifying- and I realize you know she taught taught me the power of of making beautiful, sounds together and the the rigour and discipline that you needed to make something sound or appear effortless. She was really incredible: kate, stumpy next piece of music disk number. Three. What have you got? What is it I'm, not my glasses on. Oh, it's the pilgrims com Yes, yes will I say I got to sing this in the choir at school, with Jane, elton brown in a hideous blue
I hope they changed the dresses at the Melvin festival hole. I think it was, and it was one of the most transporting exe of my life every time I listen to it? I I wait with joy. The the is I
I The pilgrims curious, Tom, who is a by wagner, performed the norman loop of quiet and the news, then the orchestra of london conducted by leopold to confiscate so kate. You didn't go straight to em college after leaving school you enrolled on a degree course, and it was zur economics in fine arts. I think at a melbourne university. What was the plan feedback? Then? What would you decided? You were going to do all the wonderful thing murmurs. You didn't really have to have a plan when you went to university. I thought I would go into gallery. Creation could have allowed enough hold me. A painter, not really a dancer. You can't be an that's, not something you do with your life, but I'm the only thing I thought I wanted to do was travel with my work, but I
Well go to university in work out what that work actually cause cause economics and finance. It sounds like its creative, but it's also sensible I'll be able to make a living, so you were kind of hope to get closer to the stuff that made you feel alive. I think I want to get too international relations to that's what the political end of economic, social and of economics. If I had a great time a university and then I took a year off travelled, I came back in with a play in the student union and someone who is the player didn't particularly like me and probably wanted me to leave melbourne suggested. I got a drama school and that was what we even rolled the national institute of dramatic arts in sydney. What kind of all three getting with the wonderful thing about drama school, you kind of get all sorts, don't you I paid rosalind and, as you like heads and violent twelve, nice and alive, turn in my final year and the first job out of drama school was as a script reader for casting agents. Oh yes, it was Liz. Mulliner did you learn lots dealer? I didn't work when I first,
left drama school and she had seen me throughout the course of you know the productions I done there and really believed in So she brought me in as a reader to read opposite people in their traditions and it was extraordinary from an anthropological perspective, but also from a work perspective. You realize the energy the way people walked into the room, they got the job or not, but I also realise when they left the room that, whether you got the job or not wasn't entirely dependent upon what you ve done. It wasn't personal with rating t was really liberating and I think it allowed me to have a bit more devil may care attitude when act. I eventually got an audition myself. It's time. You fourth choice today, Kate, but have become full o this ism. a song by nick cave, a fellow melbourne in you know I grew up with nick, not literally growth would make, but in a going to listen to him, play and said killed her at the esplanade and the princess.
else appear, w he's been a huge influence on me. I think you know we. Finally, it up in the same seaside town here and that's where we met he's been in to my understanding of what's been possible because his constantly evolving he's not frightened at bay the eye of the storm is not frightened of the brutal. Does he have being alive, but he's also so alive to moments of beauty, and I think that these were Rules of sound that he's creating you know in lightly, with worn ellis is I find so profoundly moving? I mean talk about being inside a turn, a painting. I really feel that that's where he creatively, lives- and this particular piece of music he's- had suddenly bans. But this is grind a man. We ve done ass. We have you fool
but upon our hard the problem solved. we're we're mathematician? Some of us hold extremely position cave growing demand and go tell the women,
So cate blanchett, you are winning all sorts of awards for your theatre work, then, in nineteen. Ninety seven new cast in your first leading film role opposite at ray, finds an oscar and lucinda bought were the main differences between inhabiting a character on stage and on camera. I realize that you know obviously you're lucky in the theater. You get five weeks for hustle. If you're lucky in a film, you might get five takes, and so what you have to do is you have to rehearse with each take like you would each week. Valse of what I realized very quickly too. Is that what you do, and hopefully, by when the first read through of a play, is that you'll make this collective discovery to go? Oh, this is going to be amazing and then by week, three, you are all weeping thinking. This is a disaster, and then you refine, so you can repeaters. But of course, what film captures is that moment of discovery which is really exciting,
your international breakthrough arrived barely five years after graduating kate. You took on the role of Elizabeth, the first now you've played her twice and are actually the first actor to be oscar nominated both times when reprising a role. What research did you do when preparing to play her? While I went to the british library, with many sort of examples of her handwriting on various documents and watching her, rising changed from the lesson that she wrote to her brother to beg for her life when she was imprisoned too, a document. She was writing to a french ambassador, which very sort of late in her life and watching their the handwriting become increasingly shaky. I understood something that I can't even put into words. I could say it was, of the length of her reign. The amount of personal sacrifice that she had to make and and and then I started to think
everything that has gone on under her when she was on the throne, and then I saw a picture of the red dress that you were in parliament and it was photographed from all angles and in the back, which of course would be seen by the public? You could see how it was let out as her body changed, and so I realized in fact it was the difference between what she was presented to the public and what was actually happening to her body. Another real person that you played with a version of bob dylan nitrate prey on real person jude queen in till it haines, I'm not there. So six different actors with their own portrayals of Dylan heath, ledger richard gere, ben Whishaw and and you, how did you approach playing a man was a difference. I played him at the time when he went electric way. was really giving him. You know the finger to the audience and saying I'm not a focusing singer. I'm going to do this. It was, I think I started with three.
action of the audience to him when he made that transition but playing a man, was it a man or was it a sort of a musical force? He realized that in in that particular film that the character was made up of many different parts, a friend of mine, who's, a makeup artist, said to me a few days into the shoot she went. Put a sock down your pants. I said what hit you on the bed put a sock down your pants and I went oh okay and I did- and I didn't look back. It helped it absolutely health tat all right, cates time for some music, your fifth selection. What are we going to hear? This is a song, a definite step to design its by bands court. I am klute and it's called proof- and I can't tell you why, but it's just become my song with my husband and
I think we are travelling so much in the early years of our relationship and then without kids. We always travelling in and it was so painful being a part even for an hour for a day for what it's a strange little song and my kids have taken an over. So whenever things get tense at home and someone hasn't done their homework, while taking the garbage out, the kids will put this song on and everything falls away and everyone just starts dancing swell we're living in a hotel someone's ringing my room without a view hey, red another boom. Take another.
With I am cleats and proof kate lunch it for your husband, Andrew upton, so in two thousand
innate you and he returned to australia to be co, ceos and artistic directors of the sydney theatre company. It was a move that surprised some people in the film industry at the time. What were you looking for creatively at that point in your life? I don't know that I was conscious of what I was looking for creatively. It was just an opportunity that was presented to Andrew, actually and, and then he asked about you know wanted to do it together. The only thing that would have stopped me doing it was fear, but of course you know, it seemed like to a lot of people in the film industry in your late thirties deciding to go back and run a theatre company since two thousand and seventy weren't for like two different oscars for two different. If you were Ryan the swing of eth, it's a very magnetic country, Australia, I'm in a lot of people, leave your biggest fear in Australia. Is that you're going to get in back of the taxi and someone is going to ask you what you do and you're going to have to tell them you're an actor and they going to ask you what you where you've been in, and they won't have seen it and or your
reiser or your painter being an artist The stranger is is quite a brutal experience, but maybe that's it makes us really robust and curious little experience in the way that you have to kind of justify it do. Yes, we dont really appreciate what we ve got culturally in australia, I'm an oftentimes. We don't really admire too revere it or consume it. It's terrible word: culture consuming culture until it's been exported and re imported kate in two thousand and fourteen you won your second oscar for your performance is jasmine, Francis in the film blue, jasmine. Now, in your acceptance speech at the time, you said that films with women as lead characters shouldn't be.
they didn't need stoutly did make money. People do you want to go and see them to think things have improved since then that the time that I said that films by stories with women at the centre was too referred to as women's films, as if a female experience couldn't be a human experience and often there would be an extraordinary life It was turned into a film with a female at the center, but the story around them didn't support. The weight of the life so became. What's called a buyer pick, whereas, if you make me no oliver stone makes from that J f k he's making it about some thing so that your part of something and I think that that is really changed. Obviously, there are many more female writers female produces. I still think that the mail to female ratio of crew members, some set his needs to be addressed him and I think it's it stop being talked about like it's a fashionable thing, which is a big advance, but one does feel
particularly in american film industry that you do need to keep this. Unfortunately, politicized partake. When, in the equal rights amendment still hasn't been ratified? Stab your next disk kate, What's your choice, number six would weaken here. This is a blow. when suddenly by Kathleen van one of the great voices I mean I think, I was on a design and I think something I would profoundly miss would be the human voice and am I remember seeing terence Davis film the long day closes- and this was the last track that was played and was the first time I heard her voice and for I was to completely transported ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh
the others to now to the your and the door I know who moved the ball cause. I know to me Kathleen Ferrier and blew the wind suddenly cate blanchett, another award, winning role of yours. His time on the small screen was playing Phyllis, schlafly,
the conservative activist who is opposed to the equal rights amendment in nineteen seventies, america. You also producer in the series of which you played her missus America. What was the appeal of playing someone who was coming from such a different perspective to you? I was in the states filming when, in them fine or death throes of the election between mentoring and donald trump, and I'd heard about this woman called foolish softly unknown components. Her name me included, but I couldn't work out, why tromp was trucking her out this little old lady who seemed very benign, was being tricked out on the campaign trail and he was there her funeral. I thought who is this woman and why she got such a central role in the republican party, and so I started doing a bit of it. Search and then the people who were thinking about putting
as america on on the screen and dealing with equal rights. Amendment approach me and asked me to play her and, of course, the enemy such began. She was a kingmaker. She was instrumental in stopping the equal rights, and which would would enshrine the rights of people we, irrespective of their gender, irrespective of the of their sex. It can be discontinued it's in the american constitution. She was instrumental in stopping that happening and she was also instrumental, I think, in laying the foundations for the republican party and conservative politics. As we understand it now, kay we're going to make some time for the music to your seventh disc today. Well is a peace that I came across. Molly drake little way the bird and when we were making missus America we were thinking about how to close out the series and it was ended with an image of Phyllis shut
they finally putting on an apron and sitting down to make an apple pie and I'd heard molly drakes music, which was so price She was making music inside our home for herself free because it apart from the girl, husband recording a few days, It wasn't really recorded and certainly not heard by anyone outside her family circle. She gives me quiet courage, you know times when you're you're making something where you think this is just for me, and maybe one day I can share with other people to even sitting sadly The tree take my good advice and for Your misery, It's can be obsessed
new riva get weaving molly drake and the little weave a bet o k, blanchett very successful career on film stage and tv, I said at the top of the programme. You know that you describing the appeal of a wonderful idea that it's impossible and then you're you're hooked. What are you looking for when your agent sends you another script for you to flip through it used to be different before I had children? The first question it every banal, one I say when are they shooting and how long it used to be whose directing, but that still, of course, is the first question. Really I mean that those two parallel questions. I love what I do. But you know Zanu seventy hours in a day and there's a lot of competing needs. I mean you don't have to have children have competing needs, but tom it's the power to call versus the inspirational. I think I'm so cates almost time to cast you away now. You'll die was good.
empty, no, more demands on your time, normal filming schedule, a solitary life on the island beckons. How do you feel about the prospect? Listened heckling very. I could imagine the bid the other people over there and longed for them and think about them and make them present, but I would have time which is em. I guess I'm I'd be trying to be positive about what would I do that grow vegetables? Are you practical? Could you fancies? would build a shelter so that, if he needed to I'm trying- and that was our lockdown enterprise as we restore the derelict greenhouse in our back garden, so my beetroot good luck, flowers, a good start, broccoli, not so great noted, very diversity, as I know no borders post but depends which hemisphere less both we'll see which seeds blowing on the wind kate. For now
I have one more disk before you go, but you final choice today: its count base ie and his orchestra playing little darling, and this came back into my consciousness because it was taught feel put it in tar. My character is dancing with her wife and to try and calm her down and this about sixty beats a minute which of course, is a very calm and romantic and hopeful place to be, and I I played it to my mum because she wanted to hear it consists in films. Was that piece of music she just said, a moving again and them dance together in the kitchen, the other night, which is a strong memory from my childhood of dancing, with my to various jazz recordings and m is a sweetener. I it's a really beautiful piece of music. the
the yeah the the the
their dawning can't busy Andy's orchestra cape lunch. It's time to cast you away, you have the bible on the complete works. If shakespeare to keep me company, you can have another book, what would you like gosh this? So many I haven't read, but I think ultimately, the thing we hardest to maintain if you buy yourself on a desert island, will be hope some a writer I've been going into a lot lately has been rebecca summit, particularly over the pandemic, because she talks about hope as a gift that you don't have to surrender. I think the first to is a power You don't have to give away and so she's a strong advocate for hope. In the face of climate catastrophe in the face of
monumental abuses of human rights that we do have the ability to hope collectively and act collectively, and so I find her writing really inspiring through a particular collection of hers. Or would you just let the biggest one we can find? It's probably her book hope in the dark. While we're talking about hope, wonderful, you can also have a luxury item. What will happy god? I don't know I do like peanuts. I think it will be time if that's not too abstract I'd love to know what, having that long, elastic unbounded sense of time would be and what I would fill it with. I mean that would be the biggest surprise I guess the only question is how much he would like. Shall I just as much as you need as much as I made in the hope that I will one day be rescued. Well out of the ideal is yours I also have to ask you: maybe them
difficult question of all of you to rush to save just one disk from the waves out of the eight that you ve chosen today. What would you go full in the end, I have to say pilgrims chorus because it contains the longing for my family as well kept blanche it. Thank you very much. For letting us here, your desert island discs. Thank you thanks having me hello, I hope the gates and very happy on the end with all the time she needs that there are more than two thousand pro comes in our archive, which you can listen to weave castaway many actors over the years, including d
judy tension, Glenda Jackson, who have also paid queen Elizabeth, the first you can find their programmes if you search through BBC sounds or on our own death on a disk website the studio manage if it a day's programme, was Andrew carrots and the producer with Sarah Taylor. Next time my guest will be the film director Steven Spielberg, I do hope. You'll join us, hello, its crispin telecom. Here my brother's zones,
me too, and I are back now in series two of our radio four podcast, a thorough examination. We are on a mission to find whether or not people can change is called. Can I change with thinking about all the things we want to change about ourselves at each other white? What I want to be more confident I'd like to be less of people, please. I would like to be more of an extra vat, but then sometimes I also think I should shut up a quiet, confident yet quite like quiet confidence. I think everyone has something they like to change about themselves. Change is important to me because I think he's going to improve the key relationships in my life and one of those is you sound. You can change whatever you like. Just don't make me again what number
aren't we all going to speak to some experts who are gonna guide us through the idea of change? The last time you made me do this: it changed my life for the better, but I still don't wanna do yeah and if your home think there's something stuck in your life that needs changing. This might be helpful for you to search for a thorough examination with dr chris answer on on BBC sounds.
Transcript generated on 2023-02-17.