« Desert Island Discs

Dr Nicola Fox, head of science at Nasa

2023-12-24 | 🔗

Dr Nicky Fox is only the second woman to hold the post of Head of Science at NASA since the agency was founded in 1958. She has responsibility for around a hundred missions which are investigating the mysteries of outer space. These missions are tackling questions such as how do hurricanes form and are we alone in the universe.

Nicky was born in Hitchin in Hertfordshire and her father introduced her to the wonders of space when she was just a few months old. In 1969 he lifted her out of her cot to watch the television coverage of the Apollo 11 mission when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Nicky’s enduring fascination with the cosmos led her to study physics at Imperial College in London.

After completing her PhD she took up a post-doctoral fellowship at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Centre in Maryland. In 2010 she became the project scientist for the Parker Solar Probe, humanity’s first mission to a star, which launched in 2018 and is still flying through the sun’s atmosphere collecting data. Recently she oversaw the Osiris-Rex mission which brought back the first asteroid samples from deep space.

In 2021 Nicky was awarded the American Astronautical Society’s Carl Sagan Memorial Award for her leadership in the field of Heliophysics.

DISC ONE: The Best – Tina Turner DISC TWO: Livin’ On A Prayer - Bon Jovi DISC THREE: Lara’s Theme - MGM Studio Orchestra, composed and conducted by Maurice Jarre DISC FOUR: Danny Boy - Andy Williams DISC FIVE: When You Know - Shawn Colvin DISC SIX: (Reach Up for the) Sunrise - Duran Duran DISC SEVEN: Boulevard of Broken Dreams - Green Day DISC EIGHT: Canyon Moon - Harry Styles

BOOK CHOICE: Pale Blue Dot by Carl Sagan LUXURY ITEM: Lego CASTAWAY'S FAVOURITE: Boulevard of Broken Dreams - Green Day

Presenter Lauren Laverne Producer Paula McGinley

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Previously sounds music radio put Hello Well then, and this is the desert island discs podcast every week, I ask my guest to choose the eight tracks book and luxury they want to take with them if they were castaway to a desert island and for right reasons. The me It is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening. I My castaway this week is the physicist doktor nicholls fox the head of science at night. some cheese leading the space agency in a new, ambitious europe of exploration and describes a job as the best in the world and beyond it
at present, she's overseeing around a hundred missions managing and eight billion dollar budget and tackling questions like how to hurricanes form. What can we do? from asteroids and are we alone in the universe. Her own story starts with that same spirit of curiosity. It began in hitchin in hertfordshire, where her dad himself captivated by the apollo missions, sparked a childhood fascination with space. She was just eight sold when he lifted her from her cot, so she could watch Neil Armstrong, take humankind's fur steps on the moon today She has a new generation of spacecraft to look after she says watching them. Launch is like sending your kids off to college, in no they're going to go and do great things, but it's a big sea change in your life, and you hope your kids will call home. We need our spacecraft, a call home, doktor, Nicholls fox welcome, did as islanders.
Thank you so much, sir nick. I want to know more about how it feels when you watch a mission launch I'm imagining. Oh, an incredibly heightened mix of emotions. What's that blend about it is a huge mix of emotions on particular If it's a mission that you have worked on for years, because you ve been panicking, you ve been stressing you ve all the things that can go wrong haven't gone wrong and it's on the top of the rocket and then you stand and he watched the rocket lift off in its incredibly pray. moment and then you realize I'm never going to see that spacecraft again, and so you have legs separation, anxiety and you have this sort of sad moment of just wow. It's gone and it's the If one, it's going on the big expedition to do all the amazing things that you are prepared to do, but there's still that sort of my life's not, it'll be the same anymore, because even though you're going to do great science with it all, your engineering team is going to go off and work on another mission and you're going to go and work on another mission, and so it really is like post launch.
please describe go. Oh, I do cry particularly its accrue launch just because you know it just so inspiring to see it and I'm so incredibly proud to be associated with it. So the tears flow over time. so its emotional watching the launches. But then it must be equally emotional watching the landings the osiris rex mission ended in september, and that was a big mouth recently brought back the first asteroid samples from deep space, the largest sample of its kind ever recovered that landed in the. how does what was it like watching that? I think it is when we knew there was the command. That said, the capsules entered earth's atmosphere and that's the moment when you go okay, this is real And you know it's it's coming down it. I think about twenty eight. thousand miles an hour at that point is causing a lot of heat, and so essentially the capture gets engulfed in a viable.
Hearing hearing the words parachute has deployed. I think that was I want that my heart kind of leaped out of my chest, because that's the moment we are like ok with good any sort, stop spinning. And at that moment you also know that you're going to have a soft landing. I mean it looked like that, like somebody putting a cup of tea down on the table, it just came down briefly what a relief Nicky our eye and let's go to the music. What disk number one so my first disc is simply the best buy tina turner, because has a fund memory. So when I was about seventeen, my father I was on an executive, coarse and he was actually giving one of electors they team said to him. Oh, you need to have a walk up song and so he said, what's walk up some basically set on a human we're just gonna play it on when you will come the sage and areas Oh, I don't know, but my daughter loves tina turner, so thing by her
not knowing what his walk up song was going to be. They played the best lighting turn up, and I can just imagine my dad kindest. Rushing up onto the stage of that sort of beginning beat and then actually im, really not realizing that at some point she was going to sing you're simply the best, and he was a little bit embarrassed at that point. Everytime I hear it. I just have this vision of of my dad kind of grooving his way up,
tina turner, the best tina turner, Nicky books, the samples brute? by the osiris. Rex mission came from an asteroid called benny. Now it's four point: six billion years old make an almost as old as the solar system itself. What are you hoping to do? from those samples of rocks and sand is like a time capsule that you can open and pull out like the clues for what life was like.
So when our planet was forming, you know before life started here. Twenty five percent of this pull will be used immediately by nasa researchers and research is all over the world and the other seven, five percent is going to be preserved for future generations. If you think about the appalling samples we're just opening some of those samples for the first time now, fifty years after they were taken and returned and the equipment that we have to be able to analyze. They samples is so different from fifty years ago, as a really kind of brains, I am to the importance of bringing back samples, but also the quotas for saving them for future generations to really take advantage of so let's go to the beginning of your own story: Nicky, you were born in hitchin part four june, nineteen sixty eight and your father. Eric was an engineer, vauxhall motors. It's me credit with introduced. Thank you to the wonders of space. How exactly did he do it? So he had followed all nasa astronauts.
Grams, mercury, gemini and then of course, apollo, and it was just very important to have that. I in quotes, knew where I was when Neil Armstrong landed on the main. So obviously, eight months old have no idea, but I know the memory you know that he came in. gave me a running commentary throughout this even I think I was about three. We were on a family holiday in spain and in I have a bedtime story. No, he had glass is on the night stand showing me well. This is the earth. The moon goes around the earth, yet catherine sun and you know, would ask him to tell me more and so over the next few nights we would add other objects from around the hotel room to add other planets and often say just imagine what it must be like to work for nasa. So is his passion but amazing that he planted the seeds with you, and then you took it so far. What did he say when you first got a role at nasa cause that that happened quite some time? Yes, yeah. That was all straight out.
Phd, I applied for a postcard at nasa was selected and he was extremely proud and, and so when I went over The first visit my parents sent me this year, huge bouquet of flowers to it to NASA, Really think, then you who I was, but suddenly this at their security, is huge thing of flowers. Up for about myself, I was, I was pretty well known with the security guards from my first to you, Only child were you the kind of kid who lived in their own imagination. Alot made up of two games to a certain extent. I spent a lot of time building my lego and I was very meticulous. I think I was probably too meticulous, but if I built like in town. There will be people crossing the road and they would be waving and their head will be looking exactly at the other person that they waving to, and I spent ages thinking that it's time to go to the music, Dr Nikki folks, at your next track. If you would. the two, what's gonna be so it's bond jovi living on a prayer. I was that such my bachelor party years and years ago, and you were
dancing and living on a prayer comes onto my friend is dancing and the dying next to her say whose dancing in it she said something like. I love this song and he said. Oh yes, it's my mom's favorite song. She was crestfallen if we add the thought that either my goodness I am now being like into someone's mob, and so every time I hear the song, I will snapper picture it's on the radio or something else not picture and text it to her, and she will do the same. So we can be anywhere in the world and immediately think of one another with one note of living
project bonds, yogi living on a prayer Nicky folks. I want to talk to you about you mother terrain because we had so much about it, and so she wept in a bank, and I know that she played a big part in getting you where you are today. Tell me about her approach to bringing you up mom was just a very empowering person. and she doesn't get a lot of credit. I think, because my dad was the big space enthusiast and therefore it so to follows that he would be most of the inspiration but
he was kind of that quiet, very steady force. That was always there and always had the you know you can do whatever you want. As long as you want hard enough was kind a thing. You know she would give me communities, she would make sure I had the opportunity to do whatever I want to try. Some things worked, something's didn't and she may not. have dreamt of walking on the main, but she would make sure that I had every opportunity that she could provide. If I want to welcome the me so. Your mom was keen for you to experiment. Try things at school had body in top lessons he paid piano too great a coming. Did you ever? Can to a career in the arts. I know you'll of drama, I absolutely love drama and it sounds really daft. When I say I wanted to be a physicist or an actress, but it's true and she said well, I think you should get into
free first save always got something to fall back on. So I did. I did physics senate at one point. I'd said well, I think I'm going to do this and then I'm going to audition for some drama schools, but then nasa came knocking, and so I went to nasa instead and so so, at what point did you tend towards science? Physics was always a passion, partly because you, the astrophysics, is a large component of physics, but it was so just the the mechanics and the real world peace of it. In a Why does this happen over here's an equation for that, and so I I really liked physics it's time for your next piece of music, Dr Nikki folks, your third choice today, what is it and why are you taking it with you? the I'm? So this one is all my mom and It is laura's theme doctor Zhivago mean, as early. As I can remember, this was her favorite song If it came on anywhere, we to meet, you stop innocent it and she would not put a hand up and say, ah love this song.
No his theme from the soundtrack to doctor Zhivago with its composer maurice jaw, conducting the mgm orchestra nicky fox. He physics at imperial college in london. Now, what do you remember? the transition from school to university, because I know that the girl school it you attended was very nurturing. It was. It was a positive environment for you. What was it like being in a big upon, so it was a very difficult adjustment actually and I'm one
I dont think mentally. I was ready for in I come from a small, olga school. There were only six of us, he did physics, four levels, and so you had. really great attention. If you don't understand something, those tito's always can explain it to you, and then I went to imperial college, where you are just an indistinct head in a sea of of students. It's so competitive and there was a very competitive environment and if you are in a study group and you you're with people that are like oh yeah, I got this. I know that anything I I don't have that, and there is that fear to speak up. and I realized tat have later in life that I'd deafening identify with the impostors syndrome. I know that when you got your current role at NASA nicky described I'm having what you called a wily coyote moment. It's interpreter either alike and ass. I did because I was, I was obviously very excited about doing the job, but I describe
as a mix of total joy and total paralyzing fear. My Previous job, I had a wonderful deputy and I used to like myself to what he, because I'm quick you come up with solutions and quick to want to implement them and she's very calm, and very very grounded in the way she thinks, and so I would often describe it as I was widely katy. I'd run off the cliff and she calmly reach at her hand, grab onto me, pull me back, I say: maybe we should think about this before you leap off the cliff, and so it was just that the extension of that metaphor. I no longer had her reaching over stopping me. So I was like oh I'm going, I'm showing I'm just going that moment in the eyes of the moment, realise at random
the science at nasa. Yes and then, then you know that little acme sign comes up and down. He falls yes, so that was that. Was that moment? I think we better have some mood music wiki, your fourth choice today, what is it? My fourth choice is danny boy. I chose to be sung by anti williams, because that covers my whole family, because my dad always really liked Andy Williams, but Any boy reminds me of my my grandmother, because she would also sing danny boy and she sang it beautifully ass. She had it. my wedding. Oh, my bridesmaids walked in two danny boy, which I know is an unusual choice for a while saying, but I very much wanted my grandmother and she died many years before to be somehow present, and that was the way that I did that and and my son's middle name- is Daniel. When he was billina when he was little and I would be rocking him to sleep, I would sing danny boy to him. So this one covers the whole family
the Sorry from Finland Andy williams and danny boy soon, if you feel each de researched, solar sub storms. Now they subject obviously appeal to union duty. Half this enormous affection for the sun, even though I think you ve called it an average star Why do you feel so passionately about it so asked star is just an average store bought. It is our son, it's the only one that we know that has the responsibility for sustaining life on a planet, so that makes it you know an extra
airily ordinary star, but the sun is. So a very active star, and so it does have storms and it throws off billions of tons of solar material that can travel towards our planet and millions of miles an hour. So you want to be able to predict understand what that star can do to us here of so obviously you find the subject for in eating it and you start to research. It you did your page day and then in ninety ninety five, you presented you're such a conference in alaska, and I know that proved to be a life changing moment. For you tell me what happened by had a poster presentation, some standing in front of my poster- and I saw a scientist standing off to one side and when everybody else had gone he came up and- and I told him about work uneasiness, really interesting. Would you be at all interested in a post, aka, nasa, sir?
if the bells tolled somewhere in the back of my head and, I said, probably tried to play it cool yeah. I could do that, but I inside am sort of like screaming, and so that was my set of ground changing moment. So it was it nasa's gods, space flight centre that you became the operation scientist for the polar mission and that was set up to measure energy input into the earth's polar regions, so that meant studying the aurora, absolutely the northern lights, and underneath met your husband and John. It's a magical meet meat that is, he was assigned to see here is a scientist, and I say he designed cameras that image the aurora from space and I was out with a couple of friends and we were it was in sweden and it was really cold and we were traipsing through and we heard other people talking, and so we went over to say, hi and stood there in that
well? I met him and then we have this beautiful rural display, while anybody with folded love. What did you talk about? We told- by the aurora, was quite. Was it on the science so earlier we width, I mean honestly it leaped a pair of nodes. Absolutely I was asking about the resolution of his camera. Actually, and on what wavelengths that it looked at and what about? If we tweaked it and looked at a different wavelength, yet we had a great commerce. We all have our own love. Language is crazy, isn't it I know that FC will visit the disc number five. What are we going to hear so this is when you know, by Sean Colvin. This is actually, first dont song from my wedding because in I met John unto the aurora I need I knew you know, you can in, I go back and
treat say you don't its clear when you know shown Colvin Nicky folks in twenty ten, you back the project scientist for the park, a solar probe which launched in twenty eighteen, so the spacecraft is named after professor eugene parker, who correctly predicted the since, if solar, wind and nineteen fifty eight, though his work with killed by many scientists at the time. Sixty years later, the probe is currently flying through the sun's atmosphere where its collecting data that proves park his thesis. I knew this mission is very close to your heart. Why it's the coolest hot his mission under the sun, but it was highest priority of science, that any any one in the sort of space science community wanted to do, go in.
The atmosphere of the star and understand how this connection that we have with our star. You know how it sort of powered, but it's hard to fly into the atmosphere of the sun, and it took about sixty it was sixty years till the launch for arm the technology to kind of catch up with our dreams. So over the next couple of years the probe is going to get closer to the sun than any previous spacecraft. What does that mean? I mean how close are we talking? It's actually christmas eve of twenty twenty four, it's my christmas present the spacecraft will pass to within. The three point: nine million miles of the sun's surface. Now I realize when I cause I said, million you're immediately thinking with that, doesn't sound very close, but if I put the earth and the sun one meter part parker solar paper before centimetres from the sun, so is his I'm finding these numbers mind blowing
Do you? Yes, I do a lot more used to them now. The one I still find mind blowing is that at that final fly by the spacecraft will be travelling at four hundred and thirty thousand miles an hour. That's about a hundred and twelve miles a second and they in just about think about one hundred and twelve miles an hour, but a hundred and twelve miles, the second. So that's like new york look you idiot under a minute- and the thing that makes the commission even more challenging as when we go into these close approach, so that sort of the very close country through the sun's atmosphere. Often we please contact with the spacecraft completely because those large gloaming star in the way, so we will often get a signal from the spacecraft right before it goes into the encounter and often have wait many days to get that signal back and so the former project manager that I worked with,
closely will always send me at all. I get on my phone as a green heart and agree it means it was a green beacon tone. So everything is ok with a spacecraft and then the law no one will tell me that the spacecraft data recorder is full. And that means all the instruments worked. So that's that's how we know that it's good. So, yes, it launched in twenty eighteen five years, later. I'm still a nervous rack. Well enough, of course you know it's, mission is going well so far, but all being well. It will come to an end in twenty twenty five wants to the spacecraft them as long as the spacecraft is functioning perfectly well, extend the mission and it will continue to take great science. We run out of fuel on the spacecraft, and so unfortunately, the spacecraft will start to turn and and all of the very sensitive equipment that is not designed and it will not be able to cope with all that total sola illumination on it and
if the spacecraft will will sort of gradually break up into large pieces and then smaller and smaller and smaller, and it will eventually become dust that orbits the sun forever, will he feel When, when the moment comes when oh yeah, now runs at feel. It will be terrible but already doing groundbreaking science, and so I know that tat, gene parker, smiling down from Heaven jean was very I did I- she got to travel out and show him some of the first data that we got back. And I just remember him saying wow, that's what the solar wind looks like just being the happy of this thing that he predicted and not only is it right, but he was actually seeing it and there was a wonderful moment, it's time, few sixth disk nicky mode if he chose- and so this one is very related, paca solar power, This was the one that I played every morning when I was driving onto kennedy space center, doing all the final stuff before each and every morning I would
and to reach up for the sunrise by your answer? yeah job for the sunrise, gironde, huron, Nicky folks in twenty ten professional professional life was going brilliantly, but not long after you joined the park, a solar probe team. You experienced a terrible personal tragedy. Your husband, John died suddenly
What happens so? I was away at she. I was in california at the sight of the big conference that tat we ll go to in december, and I left John with it friends and my daughter was thirty months old and my son was three and a half and I went out to an evening meeting and if a dinner- so I remember I- was walking back through san francisco and I went to go into macy's thinking, I'll, get something for the children I put my hand on the door and I had this would have really weird like I must. I must go. Call home immediately. So you know I ran back to the hotel and I called home and John didn't answer and I thought I'd he's gone to sleep and then in the morning I got up and I was getting ready and I was calling home and I didn't. I didn't get any answer home left message: no one's from cell phone call work, no answer at work, but ice cap cos
in home and after puppy about forty five minutes of me. Cooling, they're fine was answered, and I just heard this voice say hello, and I thought it was John So, of course I said- oh, my god, I'm so I've been so worried about you and help me being, and then this is sort of pause then I heard mummy- and I realize It'S- my son has of course was allowed to answer the phone, so he asked the phone, and I said, jane and he said yes and I said well, where's daddy and he said oh he's asleep and I said, can you wake him up and he said no he's sleeping by his closet, and I actually nine one one, and I mean I think every emergencies Well known to man went to my house but I stayed on the phone with my son to talk him through various things cause. I still don't know what happened and he's only three and a half and he doesn't know, what's happened either and I knew he was tariff so you know- and I when they told me, ok, the police are on their way, and I said they company down there,
I can't have this image it my son's head and I said: ok, I'm on I'll get him to open the door, and so I said cause he told me he was hungry and I said, oh well, you can't reach the serial cuts on the high shelf. I said so. I've asked a policeman to come, over and help you get ariel down. So I need you speak very brave and go downstairs and unlocked the door. So the police, can come in and help you get some food and he went down and open the door and and then it it turned out that sadly, John had died from what how can you resume? I may not is an experience that that's going to change you. How did it changes, so in some ways, it kind of made me realize that bad stuff happens to people in, and I think that some and you can go through life thinking, bad stuff happens to other people and then it it happens to you and you realize you can survive it. That's one of the other reasons that paca, solar probus is so special because I just started
in this role and I lit he was saying: how can I survive and just with this sort of cost of thousands it felt like that care enough to always make sure that I was ok and then you know my kids amazing you know my son at three and a half years old, processed grief and in the most incredible manna one night. We were riding home and there's a pizza fan, and he said let me to angels like pieces as Yes, I'm sure they do James. I'm really show that do he goes ok, so we should order one and send it to Heaven, and then we can follow the pizza truck in out This way of lake, maybe the sign it, it method vanier. He is a problem why Can I do to deal with this? I know that you did something very special to commemorate jones life and in his contribution to space research, but was it so we
launch the Van alum probes in not twenty twelve and there's some little balance, masses that you put on this. Craft, when you started doing the precision balancing that light, little plates and we often engrave them, might mine? engraved on you know it's. It has his name on it, but it also has to daddy from james and husky. I think I'd better go to the media we ve had. Yes, this is boulevard of broken dreams. my green day, and this was something that when I first when I heard it said in the throes of grief You know it was a very sad song because they talk about you know, I walk alone empty streets without my shadow and now it just really can't spoke because how I felt I felt like I'm on my own and then I listened to it. It's more impairing with that that thought of did walk alone and I made it.
the green day, boulevard of broken dreams, Nicky The big question for space scientists is: are we alone in the universe? How close I wonder, is NASA answering that question our planet is that of the goldilocks planet if it's not too close naughty and he begged not dismantle, naughty hot, not difficult, and it sustains life. So why is that unique?
as we start looking in particular with the james web space telescope and looking at these very distant galaxies. You know we're looking for other stars like ours that maybe have a rocky planet, orbiting them with an atmosphere, and that sounds said, a very easy. It's really hard. She go look for those things, but will have future mission called habitable worlds. Observatory that will be designed to literally look for planets that could sustain life How clearly do you kind of invasion that and how far off do you think will that is having the tools that we need to Ashley's have search for planets that could be earth like is not too far away the ability. To go and visit them is. Obviously I don't know. I don't know how you think about that, but you're talking millions billions of is always taking it back into the theoretical spain. We are both offences areas because they probably handling well yes, better than me now
it's time to send you off somewhere a little bit closer to home than often thinking about the desert island. Do you think will spend time contemplating I know I will convey the amount of time looking at the sky because as soon as you go to light, the desert island oh, the in places far away. A lot of light policeman man, you see so many stars, so many stars Well, I think, we'd better, give you one more track before send. You have to your island. Your last choice today. What's going to be, this is my daughter's choice, and so it had to be a harry style song and she picked a car, and then then she said now. I really want to do canyon, moon. She said, whenever I hear it, it just makes me smile and I think of you and so I thought over- that's that's an I'm just going to take that very nice sentence report changes.
It's going to go with candy and moon because it makes her smile to leave sky, never looked so blue so hard to believe it. But that's what I always do think back to the denny's saying: go: get the kids for school, harry styles and candied name so Nicky folks. The time has come, I'm going to send you away to the island, I'm giving you the bible, the complete works of shakespeare and another book of your choice to take on this mission. What will your book be? My book is the pale blue dot by Carl Sagan.
There's there's so many great images of space this, how many great images of our planet, but that image from the voyager one spacecraft it it turned back on. It's journey all the way out there and took this image of this tiny, tiny planet that is actually our planet and in a call sagan called it the pale blue dot. But it's that feeling of you know that sauce, that's home and house, that of fragile. It is it's a tiny little dot in space, and so I I've always loved the What can I have loved the image that that conjures up? So I would take a book with me as the perfect as island read. You can also have a luxury item therapy. Oh my luxury item, please I would take a big box of lego. That is actually my stress relief and there are times where I've had a been a tough day and I will come in as I just need to build something and I had a particularly tough week at work three weeks ago, and I bet
anti titanic. So that's when you know it's an innovative awake. Yes, this it just released is really stress. Relieving tomato need to explain lego to me, know the biggest box growing with a dream. Lanky and final which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today, would you rush to save from the waves fo? That was a really really really tough decision, but in the end I went with green day and boulevard of broken dreams, because it's my anthem, Dr Nikola fox. Thank you very much for letting us here. Your doesn't Anna discs. Thank you. So much the the
hello. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Nikki. I can pretty much guarantee she's going to love the constellations she'll be able to see from the island we've castaway many space enthusiasts, including scientist, maggie darrin, pocock and astronauts tim peake and chris hadfield and you'll also find the astronomer Carl Sagan, the author of Nicky's castaway book. In our back catalogue too, you can find the pursued episodes in a desert. Island discs programme archive kinds- I'm through maybe see sends the studio manager for two days programme was Sarah Hockley. The assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsk iii and the producer was pull him again leave the series. Editor is joan gouty next time. My guest will be the artist marina abramovich. I do hope, you'll join us are you.
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Transcript generated on 2023-12-26.