Pvc sounds music, radio, I'm unlearned event, and this is the desert island discs podcast. Every week I ask my guest to choose the eight tracks book and luxury they want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. rights reasons. The music is shorter than the euro. Broadcast, I hope you enjoy listening. I the

my castaway this week is wendy cope, one of britain's most popular contemporary poets. She has a reputation for her wit, her masterful use of poetry, many forms everything from vill analysis to haiku and for her subversive streak. She made her name with observations on love such as bloody men alike, bloody buses and brilliant parities of poets, including Seamus Heaney words with ts, dot, her s dick sense of humor is matched by her ability to articulate uncomfortable truths with remarkable clarity and has subject matter is wide ranging covering everything from low. And psychoanalysis to alcohol and radio for it was teaching me. it could to primary school in london that kindled her creative flame. When her first collection of poetry, making cocoa for Kingsley AMOS was published in nineteen eighty six, it became a seller, though, have

reputation is an overnight success with a knack for parodying, the overwhelmingly male grates, if the form didn't initially india her to the overwhelmingly male establishment. How since she described them as wicked as a generous tonic and wild as pension plans. It seems the feeling mutual at least at first now and seventies she's, one of Britain's premier poets. She sold entire personal archive to the british library and recently published her fifth collection. She hasn't no plans to retire the yoni exe for being a poet, she says, is that you couldn't help it wendy cope. Welcome to desert island to her. Thank you now, anyway,

it would be struck by the emotional range in the many tonal shifts in your work. Humor and sadness are often bound up together in poems, like loss of very short poem that appears to be about the end of a relationship of might actually be more concerned with the loss of a corkscrew, but I know you dislike being referred to as a comic poet. So how would you characterize your work? I dont mind being refer the two as opposed to sometimes funny. I dont like expression light verse because it seems to imply that- If something is humorous, send it sort of lightweight an unimportant. So I just like to be referred to as a good poet as a child growing up in the fifties. You described the poetry you and counted as like cabbage green good for you, but not very interesting was all right. What do you look for in a poem today gosh? I I look for a poem, the have some effect on me. Moves me in some way. It might be. It makes me laugh, it might be. It makes me feel tearful. It might be that it makes me think

and those are the things that you look for in your own poems as well, when you working herself when I'm work myself, I just preoccupied with, say, what I want to say what I think to be true as accurately as possible and got a poem on the go and you feel is going well. It is a very good feeling and how do you, with the prospect of being cast away in a desert island. I think I'd be terrified, actually mean be terrified having no access to doctors or medicine. It's a fair fear. She asked alone, I did live alone for quite a long time. Before I met my partner, I didn't like it much being freelance writer. Obviously you do have to spend time alone and sort of dream time time just for thinking when you don't appear to be doing anything they got a room of my own in my house, where I can write and now

I am happy to be on my own quite a lot in the daytime, but it's really nice know this can be someone their meal times. Yes, that's the difference with the desert island. who could be sharing music from your life with us. How important is music to you. It is important to me, I play the piano in the guitar when the recorder and I was in the school choir and when I was a promising. teacher. I did lots of music with the children, and that was great, so tell me Your first disk today, why the chosen this one, I love hymns and I think him to improve michelangelo. and this is a him I've known since I was a junior school and I love the tune. Taluses cannon like words to my bishop thomas. Can they were written for the scholars, went to college, I lived F, quite long tankers locking talk there, so this all sorts of connections with this.

The The the the the the the

glory to thee my god, this night, music, composed by thomas talus sung by the cambridge thing, is directed by John RADA wendy go. There is some quite long break between you, elections. How much of what you write makes it into the books that listen as might have a home on the shelves? Quite a lot. Doesn t actually sometimes because it's a permanent might upset somebody sometimes because I'm not sure if it's good enough, but I shall my next thing. I'm hoping to do is to do collected poems and if she got quite a lot of uncollected poems. I now think I wasn't sure about them, but I now think they're not too bad. I wonder why the poems that might upset people go, I'm quite keen to know their location. Well, I don't know anything away, I'm out and vanished. You swear has such a big archive. This poems put aside for ten is more in a file called failures and unfinished, and then I've looked the men found things that actually I thought were fine, so if they dont tourism

well, you might change your mind about it and You couldn't knowing when a piece of poetry is finished, yeah what happens is all right, a poem and I think it's finished, but then, we're going over in my head over the next day or two, and I realize there's a line or word isn't quite right and oh hell. I got to do some more work on this and it's when stops happening when I can keep it. Over in my mind, without saying, oh hell, I've got to do some work on this. Then it's finished when your subconscious mind becomes tranquil well. As I mentioned in my introduction, you are known for expertly parodying or the poets, and I could never look at babo buck cheapen quite the same way. Once I'd read your very in the style of fat words with. Why Why do that all this was, if I don't do it much now, but it was a phase I went through really when I was learning to write. I went to some very good evening closest run by blake morrison, where every other week

we took our own work, but on the other weeks we looked at the work of a contemporary poet, so I looked carefully at the work of a lot of contemporary poets and I think well enter I can see this is good, but is she not how I want to write? So I just sort of made funds and it was very good exercise because to bite good parity of somebody's work, you really have to look at it very carefully, and so you learned a lot. I think the critical points effective on. That is very interesting because it's often described by critics in engender terms. You know that it is a woman artist reacting to the greats of this very male. Canon, yes, is that how you say it as well? Yes, I mean I did when I started writing women poets being published at the time the very very much in the minority, and I felt that there wasn't much ink arrangement for women to tell it how it is about what happens between men and women, but I started doing that anyway, much better. Things now do you think, is completely changed. Their far far bigger proportion of women being published now

Then there were back in the nineteen seventeen nineteen eighties tell me about your second disk today. What are we gonna annex? This is from ricardo, my father, I've. Given son of an answer, I used to get taken to it. the reluctantly actually when I was a little girl to local amateur productions times to see the door cart company at the savoy says, and I grew to love it. I'm very, wait by people who sneer at it, because I think gilbert was undoubtedly a genius and Sullivan rent, some really lovely tunes honoured three mild tom, the same willow willow, willow and I said to him: why do you said singing willow? Did willow willow easy as of two legs. I ride the tough in your little

with all of you. Oh we're alone it will it work He snapped at ease it's cause he's at home and ball singing willow willow? willow and a cold racial raw all willow willow too, will. He saw at peace, tobacco from the mikado by gilbert and Sullivan sung by John reed wendy cope. Do you remember your first introduction to poetry, my father, you don't do that generation that had learned poems off by heart at school, so would you cite things like the charge of the light brigade or bits from the robot, kobach, I am. We didn't

courage it. You know you don't encouraged. Father to embark on the charge of the like eight at lunchtime in I grew to like it, and I lights that stuff better than the weedy pose about nature that we did school leader in the fifties. What was, can did suitable for little girls. Lots of fairies and flowers and things, and I lived in a london supper. I didn't really get that right as a child, I did I was of six seven I used to stories in an exercise book unused to sell to be a writer, and then I forgot all about it. You know sort of gave up on the idea. I thought. Oh everybody wants to be a writer. I probably can't be and didn't really come, At a meeting. I was in my late twenties that this was what I really wanted to do and I'm not really surprised that I've grown up to be a writer, but I am surprised that I cannot be a poet I thought I would write stories for children. Cosette was what I knew about when I was seven

and you mentioned the influence of hymns and you you had quite a religious upbringing in what were the influences there. Well, for one thing, I went to boarding school when I was seven and we were taken to an anglican service every morning and we had to sit right through the whole thing and it was be boring. My mother, evangelical, that caused a few difficulties, because I was taken to hear billy, graham when I was nine years old, the venture nature and energy did the sting of getting people to come forward to say, except to Jesus Christ, and cause? I was only nine. I thought I better do this because otherwise I'll go to hell, so I went up to the front and I was the only one because it was a relay to our local baptist church and It wasn't a good experience these days, I'm an agnostic, but I loved her. liberal, middle of the road church of england, the book of common prayer and hymns, but I We have a lot of time for evangelicals what about for whom? How would you describe your family? My father was old

he was a nice. My love, my father very much, but he was I you know, and we often had to be kept out of the way you come home and beavis managing director of department store, my my worked with him? She'd been his secretary before they were married so they come home to business and we have to be kept out of the way. Often I had a difficult relationship with my mother, which was a lot to do with this sum: If only you had faith in Jesus business, she was controlling. It is quite difficult, and anyway I was sent away when I was seven to boarding school. Yes, you ve written about that experience. Years old and she didn't cry because you know you'd read til, you know, you know that one yes tell me about that. What are your memories of of leaving for boarding school because he write that you never really came back? Yes exactly and yes, they decide is best. way to go in the train to make some friends I was taken to, I think it was charing cross station and I said good bye to my parents, and I got on the train, and the first thing I discovered was I've already

broken the rules because I had to watch him have allowed to what you're not allowed to watch and then, when I got there I found out. I broke the rules again because I had a torch. The sound like extremely sensible things to take with you there. So you going away was difficult, but once I settle down, I did have some fun I mean it wasn't all terrible some will music at tell me about your next choice today. Why have you chosen this one mozart? Well, there was a important moment when I was at secondary school. I was, Sure if I liked classical music or not, I quite often found it boring, but one day A music teacher came to a class music lesson with an l p of mozart's I decline and knocked music and played it to us, and I just as is absolutely wonderful. I just love this agenda in I've loved me

sought ever since so the bit I've chosen is a lovely duet from the magic flute. Hmm is is the the yeah. the

policy duet from Mozart, the magic flute act, one son by carried to canada and olaf there with the economy of ST martin in the fields orchestra conducted by sir neville Marriner Wendy while you were away a boarding school. Your parents would come to visit you, but you ve described feeling tense when they did. Why was that? Well, shuffle down at school and then your parents come see. You this whole thing of parting, all over again, so the today. This is cloud over the day that you got to say goodbye at the end of its inertia. Three times a year for the holidays three times he if a half terms, was all these packing and unpacking and saying goodbye settling down all over again, and I sometimes wish to fit. It just be easier.

I just do one either be at home at that all the time or at school, all the time so permeated by a kind of constant anxiety that it was sadness I mean you know like I it was. It was sadness about having to say goodbye to everyone at home your poem you're not allowed, describes the palace frustration that many children feel towards quite dominant parent. Yes, you know that that line things will get better if you're very good it. How much if your own experiences in that work, how hard? Oh, is absolutely about my childhood? Yes, how hard did you have to try to please her mother pretty hard- and I mean I got very good I got very good at knowing how not to upset her, but it wasn't very good for me having to do that more time and what happened? What was the impact on you. I got depressed I mean I am. I think I was depressed.

through most of my childhood I was depressed us a bit overweight and I think I hear that didn't really get over that until in my late twenties when I went to psychoanalysis and that helped a lot Were you able to talk about this with your mother mean? I know that that promise in the collection, family values and that wasn't published until after her death? No, that's that's one sort of reason. I put poems aside I did once when I was at university and I was home for vacation and I was very depressed. I do want to talk to my mother about it and what she said was, if only had faith in Jesus. That was all she had to say about it. I preserved myself by becoming quite secretive. We know I had a performance for my mother and my real self was

hidden away. Let's go to the music. You tell me about your fourth disk today. What have you chosen and why have you come for this when well after a fish university, I became a primary school teacher for quite a long time, and my indonesia. Music was then very useful because in primary schools there was want someone who can play the piano so on, and so I a lot of music with the children, including singing with them, and that is really one of the things I miss about teaching I loved singing with the children, so I ve chosen song. We em, we used to sing Mommy some good. daddy

sayin known mommy's top anything, some cooled his candle performed by robin whole Jimmy Macgregor and the galley arts wendy cope your choice than to take you back to your time as a music teacher, but there were other contenders and were faded like this. one, and so did I. I think there are some Thus, I think their favorite songs were probably football crazy and there's a wholly my bucket took on. I wasn't going to have any either of those are. My desert island could have been a first for days ahead of us, but I understand so you graduate from oxford in nineteen sixty six. Why did you start teaching it was in west hum lucia many of the old kayo that you're well yeah. Well by the time I left oxford, I didn't have much confidence. I didn't know what to do with myself and because I'd riches ST oxford and I I didn't want to be history teacher I went into this course im- probably school teaching so

I mean also. Those pyre was a little bit of wanting to do something useful and now do the experience and about that choice? Looking back some ways. It was good for me because I really think that my work as a teacher help bring out the creative side of me before that. I taught my for the brain. He personally wasn't creative, but in this was the arrow when those lot of emphasis on creative work in schools and size doing a lot with poetry, a music with children, and I think that woke up something in me. I went on these courses where we made up our own music in groups in a sort of avant garde, idiom that met you didn't need to know about traditional harmony rotation and it was, such fun. I just absolutely loved it and I start you think I'd like to. the composer, but then I thought twice well. Actually, I was only average music school, but what I do really good at was english super. I try this creating willingly

and also he knows, encouraging the children to write poems and the chumby their poems, and you have to be careful, but I I could see what was needed to make it better but that made me think we aren't going to have a go at this in my spare time. So that was how it started and what we writing about my feelings, because writing poetry started about six months after I was in analysis, knows getting in touch with feelings that I needed to express Let's go to the music, it's your fifth disquieted chosen it yeah. This is some the beatles blackbird now may sound a bit self dramatizing. But when I started writing, as I was judging from quite a severe depression. I read it It identifies with the burden the song I mean. I now understand the mccartney sisters. About civil rights. Why didn't know that to me is about singing in the dark, and also realizing began to write poach. I realise this is what I really want to do so

you were only waiting for this moment to arrive, is a line that resonated very much with me. yeah singing in the dead of night and take broken wings and learn to fly You're lucky you were only waiting for this to a blackbird singing in the dead on the pollutants with black it's a wendy cope your phone despite satirizes, linen and macartney in print in the us. It was around nineteen. Seventy three, as you said that you decided to enter psychoanalysis, am tell me more about that. I think you've been quoted in the past as saying I was afraid, I'd become a bag lady. I was serious when he said that, while I think I'd been depressed for long,

but my father died in nineteen, seventy one and then he got worse and I was really fight. Doing earning my living quite a strain. So, yes, there was a fair. I become a bite. Lady casinos was quite anxious but earning a living. but anyway I am, found a way to have signed when analysis. I thought you had to be rich, but it turned out. There was a clinic, whereas take not as a clinic patient and I still had to pay, but not nearly as much as the private rate and I wilson analysis for about ten years and it says it's oh process, but gradually I became less depressed. You are working with a therapist called author s camouflage I my first book is dedication to us as cutting costs. I just thought it was a joke, democracy and isn't it would be nice, if was his name, so why did you dedicate the book to him because he told me much I mean you know I was his depressed promised

teacher teach now it's being published by faber and faber. That's quite a leap. Obviously this does the creative side, but mean more. Did therapy give you as as a person yeah it's a question of being in touch with one's feelings in it. With someone asked me, how do you feel about something I would come up with? A real the blonde, sir. You know, and some will say, are you angry with me and I say no, of course not because I have no reason to be angry with you, but what began to realize was the inner. Often you don't know what you're feeling so sometimes things you do or things you say, ok, You dream about a course that very important help, future find out what you are really feeling. What was that process because there must have been a lot of stuff in that I had to come out yes, and there was quoted, ivanka many analysts had quite tough time with me, cause I used to shout at him and argue with him a lot and called him rude names, and but that was important.

because you know my father had been old and I always afraid we know if I didn't think bad it would might kill. My father so being able to be rude and aggressive to the analyst and realizing nothing terrible was going to happen was very useful process. I'm used to think I am going to you know, go to the clinic and say he's no good, and can I have a different analysen air presumably took it all in his stride. Well, I mean I don't know how it felt to him, but we ended up being really quite good friends which is not strictly orthodox but We can make us on well, you ve described there p s learning to be yourself who did use, discover yourself to be by the end of that process, and how different was that person from the person you are expected to meet gosh well, more creative and happier us, yeah you're amazing? Is it doesn't do everything I'm still quite neurotic enough to get by as a writer,

even after ten years in psychoanalysis, and also, if you're, a poet it's about telling the truth, including the truth about your own feelings that I just don't see how knowing yourself better could post we make someone worse. Writer, let's taken check? This? Is your sixth today wisely chosen it will. This is both my favorite composer with this to piece of bark is what we had Waiting, I lived with laughlin since nineteen, before we didn't get round getting married until twenty thirteen signed a while, we weren't rushing into anything and we had a very small, quite waiting with just relatives there, but we did music and during the signing of the register. We had this movement from the bach double violin concerto. the the

the The the

part of his second movement box- double violin, concerto, indeed minor performed by takako Nicky. Secondly, and alexander yeah block off with the capella easter politician orchestra conducted by oliver doc, nanny wendy cope, me about being published for the first time. How did it happen? Well, for years sending poems too little magazines and they were turning them down safer by spent what six years being rejected, then, through being a blight morrison's class, he became partridge, the tea or lesson one time I took a poem along that he light and he put in industry supplement, and then I got pose published in a magazine, cool quarto and that changed everything Faber wrote to me

said we'd like you to send us some posts for us to consider- and this was the most citing moment of my whole history. I got that letter for fake faith paper. I know The time when I began writing in the nineteen seventies, I said hoped I would get some things published. But the I didn't dream I get published by favouring paper and then that he would actually get on the bus services, an inner, not poacher, bacillus, actual best suddenness. That was all very exciting and I was very lucky, but in some ways is quite difficult because, suddenly, phone rang all the time. If people want me to do things and often ask me to do things for inadequate amounts of money. Before I realized I have some people from faber took me out to lunch a few weeks after, but was published, said don't do it a thing for less than a hundred pounds. This was in nineteen eighty six I've already I need to do loads of things for some one hundred pounds, but then another thing it may be realized because I wasn't in a relationship at the time is that successes

empty for hunger. Anyone to share it with. How did the people closest to you react. What about your mother? What did she make of your poetry, I did she really understood, and she didn't like the book kosovo sex in it I mean a friend of mine that came with me, see my mother and stepfather, because she had remarried and said dear. What's happened to you, they dont understand it too, so immense and, in my introduction, a certain amount of antipathy between you and some of the poetry establishment in those early days tell me but more by what happened well, because I feel suddenly appear from nowhere and get all this publicity. Economic, tat. It was hard for other poets and so Inevitably there was a certain amount of of hostility and that affected my relationship with the poetry world ever since it hasn't completely died away. Even now A young man whose at university much to write his lonely, say about my work and he told his tutor and

if the shooter read me so the guy said I'll give you a copy of the book. He said I wouldn't read that book, even if you gave it to me- and I had a ford- I and I had a brief relationship with somebody who knew about poetry and who'd. Never read me and then, when I was involved with him, he read my books and ships. It you're good poet, yoga part like it's surprising. So what take on that outline. What I mean I can get very upset about it sometimes, but the other hand, I have a lot of readers, in some ways I've been very lucky eminent by book, so well by poetry, standards. When I do two readings I get big audiences. Very nice to me, so that the other side of it tom feeling piece of music. This is your seventh describing chosen it. The teller cancer is unforgotten with the wonderful nickel walker s, one of the detective over the opening title says he song on the songs

it grew on me and by the time we were watching the third series that every time we, what should I say I really like this song and unknown to me: laughlin seated, and then he came home. What is it? I've got something for you listen to track. Eleven It was this song such a nice thing. To do I was lying sine die anyway. fair. Is fair. I'm sorry, I don't mind way? Paradise and ground

All voting by a wonder, wendy cope the lyrics to that song. Still it fascinating and beguiling you. I don't really understand what is about, but I did wonder if it might be about a sleuth because of us being upside down or maybe about they their upside down and grants. Anita S, you meant the idea of being one person in your relationship with your mother and then another the rest of the time and then going through therapy thee, these days. I wonder how comfortable you are in your own skin and how comfortable you are being yourself and telling it like. You said gosh well much more than I used to be. I still sometimes can only at the courage to write by saying to myself: well they'll all hate this, but I'm gonna write it anyway and that kind of frame of mind and then I promised myself another publishing so important to write what you want to write and not be deterred by the sort of

all poets, who don't like you all people who might not would publish it all the people who might because vehicles is politically correct all those things I said so important justice of pushing way and write what you want to write and then afterwards you can decide whether to publish it. Having been, poet for so many years. Has it cheap you do you think war, in my life. I mean I've earned living without having to have a job. It changed me. Well, I suppose it's it's bound done yes, because what is interesting and when that first book came out and suddenly I felt successful, you, then you go back and the whole story if your life changes as your life changes, because you say: oh, leading up to this, I didn't know that so we framing yeah. The time for the imo music. This is your eighth. Dare tell me about this one. This is back again but an arrangement that only discovered recently in the vanguard of corrupt

we have known for a long time. This is played by a trio of them base mandolin and yo yo more on the cello playing the corral, the the

the fox awake. The voice is calling us played by your mama Chris, daily and edgar man, so wendy code cast you away with the bible

the complete works of shakespeare. You can also take a book of your choice. What will it be? Well, I thought about this now decided that the bible shakespeare would give me plenty of serious reading sidelights. Something made me laugh, so I think I'll take the complete moles worse, which is. but this be making be lost its house eleven years old and he feels like an old friend said, be nice to have him there, it's yours, What about your luxury item? I have to have writing materials. Really. Us is boring, because this is what all right to say, but at least you know if I could write that would help and in no one to talk to, but if you can communicate with a piece of paper, someone might read it sooner or later and what about? If you had save one track from your eight debate would be without double bonding, concerted just because I like it or not. De cope? Thank you very much for sharing your design and discs with us. Thank you.

the, I do hope you enjoyed my conversation with Wendy. I like the idea of her chortling over the antics of bulls worthwhile she's on her island over the decades many poets. castaway, including lamb, sissy, Jackie K, Benjamin's, f, and I at least blockhead john egg. And philip larkin, Can ninety ninety similarly

if you are Seamus Heaney, where you are a born poet Seamus. Is there such a thing? Well, most children probably have the solitude and distance and fear of the world, which are we associate with a truly amazement of being and the the onset of capacity and the onset of capability in the answer said of adequacy vanishes the poets, I think that and many born poets and that's spacious, little fearful part of yourself,

I swear the poetical being resides. Probably in that sense I was born, but I would say many people are born that reading about your roots. Your your background, though it sounds very poetic I didn't have. The reality was the reality was indeed I mean when I describe it in words. It immediately becomes, I feel, like a mythic status. It is true that there was a house with trees around it and the thatch, and there there were horses in the fields and people came to the well for water and so on. So when you're describing that you're describing a medieval community, your father was a farmer. He was a farmer, but he had a certain freedom. I mean he he had the farming thing, but actually he wasn't in slave to it. That is the killing thing about. Small farming is

to be enslaved, day and night and day after day, and he had a certain panache, with his mistake, I'm going out and he was able to have people at home, working on the farm and and inside the house. There are two very important women in your life. Well, indeed, ever come to realise that I had really to mammies. I had I had my own mother, of course, who bore me what my father sister Mary was in situ in the house. When my mother came to live there. Would The further- and I suppose it says, a lot about to land the father sister that she and my mother worked out. They lived together in in in harmony man every day, for example, beg bread. She also moved because she

was there to assist and- and my mother was much more involved, necessarily with the whole business of youngsters. I mean our our family came very quickly, one after the other. How many there were nine of us- and I think there are probably six of us born inside eight years or the one I was the eldest, his and it was a very happy or very secure house was secure. There was no menace other than the menaces that are in the imagination of the dark and the trees and the scuttling of why the things on the ceiling at night, Seamus Heaney, tilting to sing all those programmes and over two thousand other additions in the desert. Island discs back catalogue. Next time my guess we'll be the inimitable bob mortimer. I do hope. You'll join us the

it's nineteen, ninety four into pop stars and flying to a remote scottish island as you'll see below during the two suitcases, each containing half a million pounds for yourself. It looks like they're about to do something really stupid to your suitcase. These are really clever. You decide This is the story of two men who burned a million pounds of why? Why would you do that how to burn a million were shone, brightly encourage yearnings, download, free BBC sounds unsubscribe or visit bbc dot com. Does uk slash sounds.