Whatever went to a special episode of dissect. I am your host called kushner and today I'm joined with the co writer of season nine. He was also the co writer of season seven on because the internet, he has one I'm an austrian or hide your man, I'm good aid of gold. alright, I'm excited to talk mac with you excited about the new season seems begun. Going pretty well got a really great words. Went from listeners, it's been really really positive feedback. So it's always a good feeling to get the season off the ground and chair. You know what we ve been working on for Many many months now say it's been awhile yeah, so we're gonna die about faces and a little bit, obviously that just streaming services, so it's kind of like at least bursley. I kind of feel like I've rediscovered the album.

just having it readily available so going to talk about phases later, but we're start with kind of a general conversation around sees a nine and cut of our roach to swimming in circles. Before we get or let's, let's take it back to- I kind of want to hear your kind of personal, journey or relationship. I guess with mac miller's music. It opened the cover. Nation up to anywhere. You want to take it, but you know maybe start with way First, remember about mac miller, first time, hearing him and counter the journey from there I mean so for me, kids came out and I was like eighth grade so I was. A young one, and for me, when MAC Miller came out, it was like ok, this is what the cool older kids are. Listening to, was kids and was like a blue side park. I remember do kind of remember like trying to listen to blue side park. One time and not quite

watching it, but also being light brown, older kids. They all say this at this is probably cool. I just don't get it or something like that that's. How was for me at least, and then I honestly, like just didn't- I didn't check in with mac for a long time watching movies would have been the next time, but that was like the same is and like a wolf had just come out so if they like listening to wolf on repeat so that I missed it didn't get to mac. Until I good I am came out, Europe has again I'd always when they owe max for other folks. I guess I just don't listen to him, but some Buddy, probably like was like before game in college for socrates, somebody probably played good. I remember in the locker room. I think it was break the law specifically If I I'm, if I'm remembering everything right- and I was like- oh wait- a minute- this is actually mac. This is like MAC miller, the the blue side park. This is in

and so then I was like. Ok, I gotta go. Look this up a my own time and that's when china by went back through the catalogue inserted just like falling everything he was doing off there. Divine feminine when there came out those amazing. If folks, remember me she's in seven in the gambino snowflake. He did divine max divine from and when can be noted awaken my love they were both doing the singing at the same time, it sounds very like equivalent hang also is probably the best song when paying him. As ever exert as like it here so very into all that stuff, and came out and now, amazing. That was when I first started like teaching so like I was like ok, I my own independent adult right now. I finally have a real job. Madison, this is a great album to listen to like every day on the way to and from work in all that stuff, so that's kind of how it we make the others interesting, my mother

what a journey actually, because I came late to mac, I heard at want to say I heard probably his bigger songs off of the first couple of mixtapes and albums and wasn't for me at that time. Wasn't the music that I was particularly into at that time. I in you know everyone. his victim to like first impressions right. So you make your assumption about mac. Who mac Miller is with those early projects and then kind of just for me, ok, I too am out just didn't really make it a point to like check him out after that too much I have said this on the show couple times. Probably, but here the early two thousand there in two thousand and ten is kind of when I went to school for costco music, and once I got there, I had so much catching up to do that. I fully immersed myself into that world and dinner. Really listen to anything else really fell off the map of popular music at that time,

we hear about bigger stuff, obviously, but like something like a mac miller was, gonna, be on my radar at that time, but good I am. And especially divine feminine, is like when I was like. Oh, this is much different than I remember back miller being predict, divine feminine, because he is working with the same. A lot of the same people, kendrick Amar, was on to pick a butterfly and obviously that's them. That's an album that are really in respect and hearing kind of the similarities between those projects. I remember be like oh he's he's he's going this route and, and so he kind of went back and rediscovered his older stuff by swimming was the one I mean. Coming for me was personally when I was like. Oh, he found it like, oh yeah, he got it. He did like everything we built this moment and I just remember being so impressed by them.

additional job, because you know obviously mac can wrap like you. That was pretty much clear from day, one that he added pretty raw in and then polish talent ass. He went on but that was never really in question them. this ship, which now now, realising in an even studying his life more like was there. From day one, but I feel like it was really crystallized with swimming with the assistance of joy. brian, who is also one of my favorite musicians of all time before swimming much before swimming. So that's when I really, I fell, fell, like you know, quote unquote deeply in love with his music and and obviously then months later, tragedy happened But yes, though I'd say that's my general generals, get more thing about it, the more at least for me purse and maybe even kind of objectively, it's kind of summer to tyler. Where

came out this one way very young and kind got branded. As this thing. No, he was kind of shock. Rap MAC miller was kind of frat rap The folks. A while to kind of realize there are more than that, and also to them personally to you know some work to to get themselves to that next level, but the raw talent was always there Yes, well, I guess some when I talk to you for this season. Maybe this is like a year ago now, something like that yeah while ago we started with a pilot of woods actually from from circles in IRAN that very beautiful, and then we signed up for to take on most the yeah lyrical analysis and kind of research for swimming and circles and said, walk me through that. The initial kind of phase of your studies and approaching like how you are going to go about kind of

analyzing this album, I mean for me. It was like when we first time about a decided listening to make both of the albums every day in doing that. and then just slowly. Building up the interview, that's kind of that's, probably what mostly research I think consist of. At least for me. Like I spend so much time, even in my own, like free time does watching interviews. That's like I want to hear people discuss these things. I want to hear them talk about the behind the scenes or what's going on, what's influencing them, so I think now for mac gotta, you two players have like three huh, videos causes just so many for him at least, is just so much content that was created, one of the challenges. I guess this season might be in how most of those if you go out or in like how to process them, because there is a lot to consider, which is how media treated him and how he kind of gets talks too and interviews, and then you know how max doing

the different times of max life, said different stages. He's gonna be you're, saying different things in these interviews. But like a layers kind of process so, like the beginning part, was me really familiarizing myself with how mac was kind of timeline lies and what he would talk about, what he would repeat in what things we kind of stay the same, and that was a lot of the research and then just going into the. The music trying to go through the back catalogue, a lot, because I think I think we both talk about this is far realising the lack of respect for the old work and how good it was near because- and I mean I listened to all of mac, I loved or make stuff but like when you really break down, seven, you see swimming encircles he's been talking about these ideas for very long time. Swimming is on the high life like that, there's, a nine mix tape. He's using that metaphor, I'm, like you

Then doing this he's in developing these ideas. He always was working on this stuff, and we saw that so the ability liquor, I can look at it all kind of almost from a bird s eye view, but just like that retrospective aspect was really. I think helpful. In nice, arms have been able to make those can it. I think right, yeah, it's interesting with the the interviews, because when I do like you, you carried the load this season in terms of research, but on prior seasons. What I would be doing that mac is probably the most prolific in terms of available like interviews being available there just so much, he was very open and You seem more willing than like a kendrick or even economy and using this hell, yeah I'd say you can t like makes time for every It is amazing to see because, like sometimes you look at these interviews- and you can tell him he's so tired- or he is so worn out There's some other thing going on in the background. Even in future, like a mac should be doing that. There's a couple people

interested in mac for activities afterwards that once him, but you see the interview going on and on its appear, selfless right, yeah and yeah. I dunno, I wonder, would that be at or why that would be, and maybe that's just a personality trait. He never seemed to complain about interviews too much which allies artists get to that place where, certainly by swimming time like he didn't, really need to be doing interviews and maybe even before then, but he always seemed made himself available, which kind of speaks to his transparently his parents, he in general but yeah. I know a lot of the thought and that we kind of talked about going into the season was like. Obviously, the death hangs over it all. You know, but we had conversations about how to You know, I guess we addressed it early with season. One episode, one and kind of just you know it's hard

separate swimming and certainly circles from the death so kind of acknowledging that early and then just letting the rest of the seas and being more of liberation or really just how we approach any other seas and write like just respecting honouring the work. and really just trying to listen and learn from these great albums, but I would say: there's some been some tough moments. I guess I'm cures to to know so far, we're not done with the season for just getting onto the last couple of episodes of swimming right now what what sticks out for you in terms of being the the most difficult episode to get through the year. This season has been like a I wasn't. I dont think I was ready. I dunno, like I jumped in and then, along with other research, came a lot of struggle, but I mean think all of us probably have people we connect with people, for whatever reasons right, when I think about mac,

like two people. I know very well who I connect with his story and like so it's not just mac. It becomes than a personal exploration within both myself and with thinking about these people that I love and care about. So that's been just on my mind and has been a heavy experience for me. What am I grateful for because I think all of us deal with is, I think, a lot about in response we got was really nice budgets how emotional, how many connections everybody made with it, as you have this artist, who so honestly showed so much becomes an individual icon for like a universal feeling in many ways, which is great where they get episode. That are, I mean, I think you probably note like self care like tore me up. There's something about self care that haunts me like still. The episode has done. I had to kind of washington,

and a bit of it it something about it. So haunts me and feels very difficult to deal with this subject matter. the music video and even the instrumental sums. I think you ve explore explained to me because you like broke down the music for me like this, is why this beat is sound. indifferent to you. This way like feels this way, but there's something unsettling about it to me. I think we talk about an epoch. But, like part of it, is weak or not gonna. We can't take care of ourselves. And in so many ways I guess you have, hopeful. Reading of it like self care is important. If we can handle ourselves will be good, but then I think also in reading the song. You wonder if it's even possible- and that I mean for me, was like many spirals? That came out of it? You know here area. yeah, I mean even reading what you wrote was super powerful, but I could tell specifically in that episode I could feel I could feel that

they came through in the writing, which, I think part of its. I mean real after that in, and I think, that's kind of important to show you, the music

It seems to mirror exactly what he was doing in the song. You know in china like what is this idea of self care? Is it even possible and in the cyclical nature of you might be able to care for yourself one day but the next day, maybe not so much right and like right, that's kind of the that's! The whole concept of swimming in circles is that we can do fine for a while, but that doesn't mean forever and so a lot of the album and- and you know the concept seems to be just trying to find peace within everything. You know not not just fleetingly, searching for the good or happiness like whatever that even is right, like as it was more about being present in both the good and bad trying to find that piece and both you know, sides of the coin, but yeah self care. I was definitely one for me that was difficult. Even just parsing,

what kind of what you wrote and then kind of like trying to flesh out those ideas, even more yeah. I think I was a difficult one. There's a line. Someone save me from myself which, as I broke me when we got to that line, it absolutely broke me which, which probably I'm talking about it. Cause try in cause like we also we're just were processing the work, we're not the people who made it right. We're not that, Their work is obviously in a way that impacts us and millions of people in such a way, and so thinking about in breaking it down and trying to talk about why it does that has been a difficult path. Is toughness and is also a mental block. Sometimes right, don't sound like sometimes I can't write. I don't want to talk about these things all that time right, you know like there's some points or get to something, and I really can't write another word

which fills dramatic and stupid. This hurt. It have had now when you live, I mean it is an intense experience like when you live these records. You ve been writing since january, so you ve been really really steeped in it for almost the entire year. Its intense, like I've, been doing this, for, I guess I'm almost five years now and obviously may depends on the album, but I would say this is probably Bob kendrick go some dark places. I do, but this one feels rick hendrick he can kind of separate it, because it's so much a concept and some so much I been narrative, it's almost like you can detach from it a little bit way and is kind of look at it. Like a story remark, it's like the concept. He said this is like the theme. Isn't this concept record per se is like it? He said I'm want to be as true to myself as possible in the themes will naturally sprout

from meat is being completely honest in its view. true and when you're steeped in his honesty and is showing you absolutely the dark and the light yeah you're gonna get it's gonna get heavy and especially if you're really I mean that has you are- have been really wanting to understand and like when you're giving yourself over to work like this. And I again I'm comic speaking from experience. Yea start to like live it. I give you're you're steeped in those emotions and like theirs and you're gonna wearing them, or something doesnt have sight all quality to it as well, when you are doing it this year and in and then you do all of this up against the face of the complete lack of any solid answer that is, he passed away, but that is the world took him right right, so there is no resolution. There is nothing new to end.

Exactly gathers. No there's no well happy ending right like rent and reconnect, and you can't force it nuts and that's another thing. I think we had to kind of work through in terms of how we were going to treat the death and about it, because there is a temptation, or at least for me too, like maybe justify this justifies the wrong word, but like many signs of it to find meaning. I find a moral rigid This is not like that. There's no value to any of you re, so I think it coming the twenty two I just came back to yeah. We just aired. What's the use and before that, her feelings with it is what it is, the thundercat. You know kind of saying that him and mack shared and thundercat saying that

at the ultimate conclusion that he came to and it's kind of the conclusion we came to somewhat independently, although it was there right in front of us the whole time and we were kind of riding through that to get to that spot, and I think anyone who has dealt with death personally, I mean obviously mac death affect everyone, but you know if, if it's a family member, if you've had to deal with that, like you know, there is really not. It is what it is like there's no No, nothing too can take away from it right. So, let's talk about something else. Let us face it. Yeah, yeah irene. get that link. It covers the approach elsie wanna say before returned this interfaces about the season at all. That this is fair like a really. I feel very grateful to have had the experience. I think everybody well and that's where the great yeah you been doing incredible job. You did a great job,

in seven you're doing, I think you're doing of even better job this time around. So we'll think, so much got doesn't eyes, but yeah yeah ok, so, let's transition the faces, obviously came to streaming services this past friday, which was great, I'm definitely fall victim to not intermixed tapes, probably as much as I should, just because of the convenience of them or the inconvenience of them. I'm not gonna put you on my phone anymore, for who has just as it so faces. I hadn't listen to four years. I listen to it before friday. Like I made it a point to you, don't get pretty prep for this and in another pike ass we did the ringer music show. We talked about faces there, but I really steep myself in faces this past couple weeks, really really really have grown to really love. This album

but before we get into a kind of wanted to set up just briefly where mac was because I think we cannot forget that one. He was twenty two when writing faces. Just baffles me. I think about myself what I'm trying to say How are you this great society and other areas like all that yeah, but Paden lived here up to that point. Let lived a very full life, so he by the time you many to install on faces he are yet to studio albums first loose. I park what number one we these with a sound off, went number three. He had ten mixed apes, including the three before kids he had to be peace and one live album. He is going on I think he's doing like two hundred shows a year he toward the uk or europe in general, I think you did a have money, our active support, tour for little wayne, he reviewed

I had already recorded two seasons of a reality. Tv show again all this before aged twenty two and oh, this is kind of where he was that it seems like we know this, They see called the sanctuary, which was the studio in the pool house right of his mansion became. You know it seemed like an from everyone that talked about the album. This was the first time a really just got to like be in one place and was touring wasn't on the move and just really really got to sit at compose music every day, all day, multiple and without sleeping, sometimes three elements. Whittier general thoughts about faces, maybe when he first heard it and just as you are kind of rediscover it recently with the season and coming to streaming, I mean, when I first I'm sure I heard the blue at like functions. You know but again I wasn't with mac, I wasn't

looking and everything took good. I am so probably there Listen to faces like once then follows. Really cool was like The blow is the greatest there's one of the best function. Songs ever rats. Keep it that way, but yet was alone streaming. So if we listen to it once in a while like when, I think when I thought about mac I tried to like rank his work like the beginning of I iota writing this. It was it, as highlighted as it is now. In my own mind, I've definitely spent a lot of time with it. Reading the season there's a lot of fanatic connections with swimming in circles between this in this and that work, which has been a great to pull out but also dislike. There is a period of like a month, I was listening to faces more than swimming and Sarah like yeah yeah. I was listening to this one more and yeah it's like, and I feel like first for me, I'm like I look back on my head. I miss it. You know a little bit

but it's incredible that he's doing all this a twenty two that this has happened in two thousand fourteen that he's doing it so into. evidently like it's, it's an independent release, its like free from all the stuff. It's we're so amazing that is able to get all this out. Yeah there's something I didn't mention too. He just left rostrum records, which was a pittsburgh labour, all independent label. I don't, I think he does. He say. Remember: music on faces sees it as remember music. There like putting it together. And he also mentions a couple of record executives that are like going to talk to him. I think like one by name, he calls out in its own right and it's always before he got with warner.

Right, so he was free from seems, like he's just free, like in the anecdotes that you read of his friends and the people that were there, the Al Qaeda speak about this freedom and you know not having a label being able to put out whatever he wanted and having money and just being able to sit and compose. I said I definitely think that kind of comes through or definite comes through in the kind of sprawling nature of the work. You know it's a long project. Twenty four songs Does he really get steeped in that world that he created in the sanctuary So let's get into well. So look. I guess we should preface our discussion. little bit with what we're gonna do in terms of our son by some discussion, so those that no- I didn't know this until recently, so many originally downloaded faces as a a mixtape you had to make.

a sandwich, you see ass, I say sampled, it may make me a semi sammy within that, but I just today that the ends are italicized, which I'm guessing mac, Milon area so but I love, I love that how silly that was, I can get. It again speaks to the kind of freedom that he had at this time where he was just doing whatever you want, whatever he thought was funny and so the building at the sight of a very basic like webcams gamers, something like poptropica you're. Your dragging some ingredients right, yeah penguin, something yeah yeah, you literally, does it there's a scroll bar with different ingredients and you just we make him a sandwich and then the men laughed with sandwiches made. That's when you get to download it. So we thought we had honour that with a sandwich draft were basically going to build a savage aft out of songs from faces

is a great idea. This cancer, as totally great and totally horny, and its everything back you know, was so we're gonna honour that we're we'll take a quick break and then come back gonna. Do are the first and last name sandwich draft sweet? Are I welcome it to this effect and we are gonna start the faces sandwich draft. So we have four categories: we have the bread special sauce, give a straight face. Add the cheese and we got the meat or the protein and I'm not sure, are a vegetarian, no okay. So we're going to be so first off bread with your breadth, so frontier. Actually, what's what's your interpretation of bread, so bread is or interpretation goes with the title. I picked inside outside

So I got the inside of faces on the outside of the sandwich as the brain and mac was free. I'm thinking this is an iceberg, lettuce, okay, so if you're keeping track of the ingredients at home, if you want to make this at home, iceberg lettuce is what we're using for the sandwich. Bread- and this is the this- is one of the best openers to any project ever in my brain, already I came in. I was now writing wager, remember my name stemming from central bankers, but already in the opening. Why I'm ok, opening line to me. is one of the most impact for opening lines of any project. It has to do with personal, like hell I read it because of my life experience: but also with all this smacks of, and I think we talk about this and what I ve talked at this episode and it will get into it.

The opening line of I should have died already being the beginning of the project. I dont know. If you ve had this cool, I have had a near death. Experience like when I was nineteen. A nurse told me. I believe you're alive right now, like that happened to me right there's a lot of stuff that happens with your life after that and how you perceive everything you can think of it as okay? I could have died now I get to live life, wonderful. Look at the second chance. This is great. He also and look at it as I have like it's a burden, but you gonna be We could have been free, echoing gone, I didn't, I might not have had deal with all the restless stuff. So. me personally after, experience and in listening to this, like it just That's in so much of everything a mac is talking about when it does was swimming as well. So, for me you know, that's an amazing opening, and so that's my iceberg lettuce.

No, but I also like that this album has so many of those great opening lines. If I think about like conceptually I'm thinking mac did this, the opening line is the face of the song. It's the first impression the songs we got all these faces he's I gotta have all these great opening lines. We also did that with the samples of the meda two streaming. But if you go back and like this summit, samples that open songs, sangsues interacting with all these faces of the people in samples and than him out his own selves and all the songs. It's for me really interesting. I love as on so much it's very special to me, yet a great great great opener. I agree on one thing I picked up from the book of mac. For those I don't know non nuclear shows men is releasing the book of mac, which was

imported by max family and next week right, I think so and she's going to be on the show, we're going to have her on next week on dissect, but I'm josh berg in the book of mac we've got advance copy. She said that yeah we said he said mac freestyle, everybody wanna, be god. Besides god, he want to be like us, like a restyled that that's incredibly bars on this. Oh when something else it. He is. and tell you that it ain't real in an ad lib is faces. So we're already talking about identity, talking about how it's not real and all these facades, and then he says, find that yeti, oh faces, I'm that yeti like for the way you screams. That is absolutely so much energy right. But I m going to talk about this throughout but like he's the snow monster mad that deals that such a clever way of getting the drug, reference of the cocaine already there.

Getty like that's wild, that he said it, but he like- and he says later, like the cocaine ether. The strange creature like this is so much of what's happening on faces. It's like electric, the beginning of the yeah yeah as a great sample, great instrumental So my bread to my interpretation of bread is like kind of hollow. Now I guess it's a carbon you're, not gonna, get a lot like nutritional value from it, but it's sturdy It's like isn't the foundation so I went with with diablo. It's the macho. When I drop flows, bark is free. Stop me and petey pablo coordinating the rapid head. Honcho rotten shows like I was funny because to me That's you know how do you

strive to earlier, which, as you get perfect for functions, yeah it's a function song. There's not. I mean there's like some suicidal lines, but aside from that, it's all there any much yeah it's kind of all, all in good fun. I guess it's like framed as exciting exactly I am about other than that. It's like it's just mac flexing boasting it's got to in a sentimental mood sample by duke ellington and john quatrain, which are so my fear me If ever I'm a sucker, I was going to see pretty much all my picks have to do with jazz samples. I, like I'm, a sucker for the put a jazz sample in hip. Hop song. and I'm like drooling samples, amazing yeah, it's a man they and they play Well, on the streaming service, I liked what they did they did at the time. Right yesterday For those I don't know there are some minor alterations. On these streaming version of faces. If you compare it to the original mix tape, I would

I'm pretty sure all the changes made aside from it being re mastered were done because of sample clearance issues for people that don't know sometimes sample of clearing samples is Impossible, literally, like you can't, you have to get approval by every song, where I think it's every song rider that stuff living and sometimes, if they're, not living it goes to the estate, sometimes you can contact them, sometimes just flat out, say no, no, no matter how much we writing. It's gonna give them so I'm assuming there's just some samples that could not get cleared, and so they did the best they could. In those circumstances, I think doub sounds great, obviously missed some of those

samples, most of em coming from the same source right, I'm assuming that most of the bill murray stuff is taken out, except for in the movie clip, but yeah jobless ample cutting it cleared, so they, I can't remember the guy that came in played it, but they had like recently urgent one ignites near reared. Re record re recorded the part you do anyways so that if anyone's wondering why there's differences, that's it and to me it's it's, so it's not a big deal. You know, I think the way that everything has been handled after max passing has been perfect. It's the I think the family has done the best job. Anyone can you know. Mack has had at least remastered his a delek, and what are the best ever must ever were both be mastered right behind me here, he got them on streaming? So you, like already in motion right. So

but like mack himself, wasn't open to making modifications to kind of play the game and and get into streaming. So I think all that all said and done it's great and the convenience of having an odd streaming and and now number one right knowledge that number number one or even very young thugs new project, like is absolutely incredible. It's absolutely incredible! ok. So, let's move on to the special sauce when he got a special sat so special ass to me It's like something interesting, it's gonna be. It is a little like exciting you're. Just like a little oh. What's that in there- and I am the ingredients civically. I don't have a cancer sauce, I'm counting it us ask them a free thinkers like mac unfastened, his I'm going. Icing, there's a current a motif, an iceberg? Let us now facing you made me have said dab because I say so happy birthday.

Is. I think we should like it's the song based on a real life story. I think we can go find my countless interview clips of some of his friend like the internet, the ban They talk about how this like really happened. How there was a party thrown at his mansion and mac was in its budget cameras in syria who not coming back out. Everybody right. It's like is a little great, gatsby, mike is allow oh well, ok, mac, you that dedicated to the work, who is right there near me say, but like is that going to it there's also, I think, back a little bit the paranoia of like who all these films at my power eddie. You know these people there. And there's a lie like they don't know. If I never don't care, if I never go and show my face like locomotive equally awesome, kennedy stuff happening there. Ok,

is a birthday party happening upstairs, and it's all for me what the fuck they will notice. If I never go show my face, I look for a reason. Xl hate to waste of a term, he has a thanks to the crucible, which big fan of the english reference to leverage irreverence, like the literary references also on this album between the samples in the songs like mac, mac, red mechanism, books, which is good and watched a lot of movies. You want a lot of people was questioning so much right. He's like Wednesday We talk to somebody thing and like the second birth or something he's like how do you feel? Do you ever see? wonder what is real. It's like somebody finally got to talk to mac at the party and he's like do you know it ray what but you every move to touch her is there tell her you love her. She doesn't care like he's so dear,

pointing out the facade of all these people who just want a party which is great any has one of them, one of lines, he hasn't here's some that comes up all the time and swimming in circles. He's getting high. My downfall kind of ironic, like Will you things the high and low? At the same time, the simultaneity, the waiters iron sincerity in what he's doing he's, got it right there and face so I love happy birthday. Others on the other, two great joy so by special sauce my mind production was like this is What sets a burger or a sandwich apart right. You can have you know for the most part, you can't get too crazy the sandwich, but spot the sauces where you can really set yourself apart right cause turkey's Now you get better quality turkey, but it tastes like turkey down so the special sauces where you get a really shine, so I I

color and shapes collars and shapes simply because it's it's unique on this. Album does not another song that sounds like it, but also its it's. What makes to me what differentiates mac from his peers like no one. You know, there's very few quote, unquote rappers that can make a song like colors and shapes, was cars instead of Paul s way, it'll, carry what you bought everything from the production him and Thundercat together. Obviously, it's just a great combination. We should say that Thundercat also produced inside outside right, yeah, and so I love. I love the production on colors and shapes there's just like this sparse kind of spacey instrumentation, there's like a fluidity there,

the drumbeat, if you, if you listen, I know how many people like count along Brian. Our people count along, but I do There was no music, but usually near is either unlike the two in the four or straight on the three, but in colors and shapes it never hits. I down beat the snare dramas always on the and which is the upkeep of three. ok, which what why most part, partly, why it's so spacious and not feel, doesn't feel like its grounded. Could it's not really that that kind of, like foundational, be who just never really get There is also the tell you that your dissecting alone there were trying to hear or china, but this is a core theory. I came across ass when doing just a little better research about the song, Have you heard of the willy wonka theory There's no one here, but I guess so. There is some evidence. We know that mac has seen

won't cover, assuming he simply on desperado from academic, so there's a really want a sample in a past work of mac, so we know is aware of it. So, there's, a theory. I think I thought I read it that that sampler, no it doesn't this guy we're unrighted was asking. Does sample willie, wankers pure imagination, and we can play a little bit of it right now. Hold your breath. Licorice count to three: come with me and you and your imagination now play colours and troops to remember that the Don't you think the yeah right, so

I feel like there's a similarity between those two tracks, specifically that high and third, the bell on on the willy wanker, but also lyrically, so will you want your things come with me and you'll be in a world of pure imagination. That's the first line on imagination and the first? maxie things colours and shapes ass. If his colors shapes the imaginary. So have all this way that we have to carry so there's like this immersion into another world, the scene in I really want is when is showing the kids the world, the troika factory, for the first time there stepping into this pretty psychedelic world? Oh yes, and maybe can speak to this, but it comes up a lot and swimming were mac is referencing. A lot of child story who, because of their psychedelic quality written, is really cool interview. Clip though we use in one episode, but it's like it's a young mac talking to

and he's talking about how interested he is he's like all this choice children's books, are these children's artwork. It's also EL. It is all about transporting you to somewhere else in so he talks wanting to a capture that idea and wanting to use it because he's like that's the pure, joy, and we see that reflected in his career, like as one of the most amazing things is how he like live this out and how it comes across in the art of how there is that youthful joy and how to that with you, the imagination, the freedom of all that as you grow old and as you face everything you have to face You are going to need your peer imagination, you're going to need this think like this, it's beautiful re like it's even addressed in the interval of colours and shapes in others, the sample it says have ants the question who am I confronted all the time you have to go out of your mind, static symbols in the way in which you think, like an ivy setting, drugs was a

part of that for mac. But you know we know that wasn't the full story. We know that mac without drugs or with drugs was very heavy in and was actively thinking about, identity who we are. And how can you achieve real freedom? And how do we get past the facade of a face and get to you know the core, the soul, so all that is encapsulated to bring it back to colors and shapes in this song. It's beautiful, melodic, free, it's it's! What set match set smack apart. I think it. It shows like to me like with a few changes with the, but this could easily have been on circles like it has not quality to me that singer, songwriter quality he would develop more of her time, but this to me was an early kind of precursor to that style of work for him and getting comfortable in those spaces, and so that's the secret sauce. That smacks to me. We're a sauces having that, I think that's what set them apart from from everyone else,

So let move on to cheese. What's your interpretation of cheese rights of cheese is give you some good flavour. I also had to like If my concept of the space on the song I wanted. So I picked grand finale as like. Okay take, a cheese would grant finale b is we something aged in old says he's gross gang on this. I knew he says he smells like old, low main those like so mad. That low mean I don't think, has any cheese in it, as I can make it work. It's like its aids, its southern asian old engross gang as mac is, but the grand finale as the cheese alleghany county is so faded leg, doll baby. Was gay smell, I got my flow dangerous. I mean like the second verse, of in the finale is incredible. Hopefully,

Our listener people were are of mac, hopefully have seen this. There is a video of mac. Talking about this song, that is one of the best examples? I can think of an artist discuss why they love song they made so like. Go find a video mac mac talking about grand finale you to tell me where you can find it, but he's like talking about how much he loves the song and like the the effort and the shrug on the journey he had with making it like. He thought he was like he really says if I die in this is the last thing I ever make on earth. That's his concept of the song so like leaving on bang and like making sure you ve put everything possible into a piece of work Second, verse is incredible like he opens it up with I fear nothing on this odyssey dogs also like first off, like the road image area, odyssey reference. Everything is talk about this entire album.

It's incredible and then the line that I love is god lives in. My dog saw the devil in his dog bull here I fear nothing on this to see a dark roads, garlic zuma in my dogs, so devlin his dog bull. We are profits, Was a poor sport, go to nostradamus to water, into wine. Buddy love the gin and tonic as skeletons in his closet. Even go one day be forgotten. Recently, I've been feeling so like if you've won If you watch reality, tv show, you saw mac, get that dog ralphie. If he's article and shapes music. Video, that's that's rallies in the video, and you talk about this in interviews. People would ask him like oh make either dog. Has that and he talked about how great. It was and how much she loved him the dog visit. I think I've read and x x, so he was about, like a dog, got him outside of the sanctuary like so after the walk the dog

I have to get out, it did make me walk, it did make me move, and so that is really grateful. There's another interview. Where he's talking, I think like rob, marksman and he's like. I believe that the dog shows you reflection of the owner soul. I guess one of my soul and my dog and important was news talking about that after ralphie, past rights is obviously a very pointed moment for mac and something he really believed so then, when you look at the line in your thinking about mac, seeing himself and his dog god lives in my dog soul, him understand it, there's goodness inside of him in the devil and dog bull being the in the consumption and the things that we do to fill void inside of ourselves in mac. I think you know living there. there's also like again basic one of the cool like symbols, you can, The dog is like a dog, is god backwards and how they are connected and right, all that, unlike why humans love dog, so much emotion,

like let anybody off the hook either as a key saying you know he imbibed and other stuff. He says like Jesus was a poor sport, turned water into. Why, like he's like, he says it, because I just loves drinking which has its own water into wine, religion and tonic. But he's like you modern wine, because you want to drink wine. Please give stricken aggressiveness these human being too and then we max even got one day will be forgotten, like, oh my god. Yes, because that's true, I like that, it's like this comes out when we talk about the season and when I think about like we think about things like max legacy, what he's

if behind and you want to say things like this is eternal, and I think that a lot yeah but then god's going to be forgotten, we're going to be forgotten max, going to be forgotten. All of us are going to be forgotten, and that is true and like what kind of wisdom does putting it at the end of this incredibly long album I mean, is amazing, and he ends we talk about identity. I think a lot He ends album with the question. Who am I right that he had talked the fireworks accident, but his eyes like wrapped lyric, is who am I and so faces is living in the question is the standing of no understanding their life is going to be questions without conquer, you're stable answers. We will keep repeating means over and over again, and this is the way that it goes and at its just a beautiful cheesy

wait here? mac with the cheesy wraps, easy mac, we should have liked like. So that's very beautiful way, beautiful waited to state that I love the qatar daddy, I'm sure you play guitar before this record is arms, but there's a love what he did production wisely no way talks about levity. You cited is he seemed so stoked on. It is so happy about it. Yeah area, I too cheese ever ever tougher relationship with china, because I love it, but I can't have it. I very does not sit well with me, so I have to refrain from meaning cheese most of the time So I can't even remember why pick this one is cheese, honest with you, but I think that I pick friends so just because I'm a miller, mac video,

Well, the flags keep falling on my expired debit cards. Don't know why I'm still awake, I gotta be up and send them more missiles. In my repertoire, say I'm pretty regular. I never leave my house, I don't know why. I got an extra car pool. House. Studio was covered up with pencil boards and every day is full of jokers like a deck of cards, where I'm so lonely as horns on my own piece, but I'm not the devil. The the product again, it's like, as I'm are pretty guy so like if the production of island, Production like I'm, just gonna gravitate towards that song. This wanting its samples miles Davis. It's like so I'm in it also set the samples. It's it's a scam. From the get a walk which is from the sessions, of in a silent way, which is one of my favorite albums ever deftly? One of my fairer, more miles, Davis albums? You haven't heard that album check it out. It's amazing, but

it's like a twenty six minutes on, but they sample the intro. I just love that haunting base, but there is also a kind of liquor, bubbly quality. Like that's. What I love about faces in general is theirs is obviously the darkness to it. When I first was released, needs thou, that's kind of what I was feeling alot of was that dark this, but the more and more or listen to it. I realise there is also like this very silly quality to into a place. equality in the way that he balance chemists. Obviously like psychedelic, like that, like the haunting the haunting cut, a sight of a joke or something you know right now, it's a real right in, and so this you like the production on the song. How much can a moped almost anything cartoonish way and then he just fuckin spitting in. I think here there are so many bars in this one

I know why you like this because the chemical marked destiny. Are there so many great called friends any sites like hundred friends- and we forget to this- was like on the heels of the control over us right faces, written caught it in that era were kendrick just called out pretty much every one of his peers as like step, the bar up, I think even says in one of the opening lines of ah fuck. What song is it? He cites kendrick, like kendrick, says arms step in the bar up in an max, as I think it's diablo anyways, so there's just a ton of just great lyrics on here. It feels like, like I have written here like it, feels like the album's thesis, because he kind of just it's kind of like. Swirl of he dresses everything in every wisest. All the faces rang offensive is friendly. Yet obviously scuba accuse presences amazing and I can at the palais forces of it to speaks to like the moon. in the sanctuary justin, whoever

they're having fun. or whatever deciding gone? My can say Miller mac fifty times money right right, like just the freedom of it. Yes, we want to last category meet over the interpreters the protein, the protocol. I have a per oh, my I'm so happy about this. The one I picked is it just doesn't matter the meat you know is obviously the centre of this, but it just doesn't matter, is so special to me because mac sampled, one of my favorite movies of all time. when as a child, I watch this movie all the time and is the bridge because a movie is meatballs, so houses the ngos to show good their identity, their sovereignty good sandwich you just made at home the members sample is one the greatest speech

in a movie ever in my mind, like I've, never seen my balsa laid out for me, okay, okay, so it's you want the movie because the movie yeah okay in the lead up the movie is there's this camp and build murray like a counselor at the camp and then there's another camp across the lake in the bill. Murray camp is like as expensive, it's got a bunch, a loser, kids, it's like cheap. It's like kids like aren't great right and, in the their camp across the lake is like. It's all fancy very expensive? These kids are extreme athletes right so the whole summer, hiding since on the camp. You know the like the building camps kind, illusory though murray's, obviously hilarious and they kind of like they want to play fun on risk camp hamper the rich camp, owns them and makes one of them and his eye caught. Look at those losers right the end of the summer. There's this summer games and it's like Every year camp the meatballs camp loses right and the rich kids win every year.

and so they have a meeting the night before the games and that's when Delmar gives the it just doesn't matter speech right. Is it the newest trainers that they have a health regiment other stuff, but it doesn't matter if we win or lose into these kids gets excited and then like them, the what's it when there's bunch of scenes in a row happening montage. That's that I feel it when they do. The mountains, like these kids, are thrown. Every hygiene got the rich kids upon off every prank. They can they do in all these things like throw the rich people off and then eventually like wind right and it's just it's amazing. Conceptually this movies incredible and it matters to us back his saying so when mac talks about it's like looking at facades right in faces and identity is like pointing out no matter how kind of being very silliness putting unlike the folly and a lot of us meatballs

has a lot more meat to the people. Think because, like it points out the farce of all the things humans have built up the risks. has built up. All these things were so important. Human beings were the best for the greatest but human. Being just above me is this neighbour you're, nothing, you're, sacco meat, and so like pointing that out, pointing out how hilarious it is that we think all these things that we construct all these things, but really they fall apart in seconds if we think critically about them right, like the film itself, does that in Mackey uses that so well on the song any, has as is a swimming. References has get faded and sleep in the oceans keep an emotion like we talk about transience, motion and nebulous, like that's all swimming,

that's a there in the sun, which is great but then he has here's this line, bugging out. Had it all, I'm nothing now just gave it away. If a label came in both put a name to a face. So like the Local allusion here that he uses to deconstruct how we try to put an aim on face interface. We try to build up an identity and how throwing that away right- mirrors. It's like a bar for mac, like he's. No label anymore he's on his own. He had all that money eager that reality, tv show screw it known. Try to make our ruby and how like those bars work on like five levels or something like it's crazy. So yeah, that's! That's me. I love that song so much there is your favorite song is that when you're inside, outside just personal yeah wise, but probably this one like, if I didn't you know, yeah this way- that's probably yeah That's good. I need a realistic as that's better sign that aim

at my kyar high on my list. Now that excited now go into this in the others at the end. There's another sample from me: balls rebuild when he says he's talking like there's like a scene with a like talking spooky stories late at night at the camp and bill Murray? Secondly, some guy, who would take an axe and cut somebody's head off, faces no identity. He kind head off. It was perfect sample whilst crazy. Here, that's amazing, And yet, when I watch the clip of that scene, I didn't have the context, that really helps, but a goddamn noticed there is a what is it called? The life ring the circular, oh yeah, the life and the background? And when he's giving the speech, I was like. Oh interesting, hey look back. but you did. Pierre baker incidents bears cool, so my meat was me like the star the show, I guess so. I just pick my fares on its rain,

It must be that prayer, animoji jacobi holies the holy name, says some flex to cover up the issues that are kept close where I can deal them in the corner. With my head low running from my shadow, never ending chaise ease the pain in a battle. That's within the same shit. The bottom of your metal comb announcement, the west bank say a prayer leave. My brain produce. ninth, wonder with anything nice wonder: produces I just I'm a sucker for he's one, my fair producers of all time, the sample that he uses its called. I think I'm an old pronounce. It go vendor by this group called the jail be or Cuesta there that colleagues, psychedelic seventies band there. Super. Until I think there is, I think, there's elements of life

in classical music mixed with, like jazz may, sweat like that, can psychedelic seen that was going on in the seventies. They just it on record, but I didn't realize this specific song that is sampled on rain. also sampled in like thirty to forty hip, hop songs, including logics indyk, about do jackals how high and, most recently on zaire, eyes, ersatz ip young, wayward I can relate to work that was quoted addition to the symptoms, basically yeah. So that's a pretty, are a very common sample. I think ninth wonder, does the best job with it and and just obviously vince staples? Kills it oh yeah, but there's something about max verse, his tone of voice especially on that verse. If not very long verse Every line, though, is just like I mean it's really dark. Generally speaking, it stop

I would like to bars of like flexes and then on the third. when he says that the flax, though, cover up the issues that I kept close and then rest of the verse is just really introspect if specifically about his drug use, and we get one of them. I think great line very haunting mine where he says running from my shadow, never ending chase like which is just the image of that is perfect in terms of what is describing ease the pain in the battle. That's within me, sniff, the shame should they got whitney the high hill depression. My temple feel a metal come out the smith and Wesson ang like fuck yeah, it's just like okay, incredible wordplay, but the content is dislike, stuff he's addressing it, you know and, and it just continues and but and even just the last line, the magazines need a quote. When I'm gone, sorry, I don't leave,

just a just ass the eyes. If I get this hunting cos, They have just amazing, lyricism and just the subject matter being so honest in confronting those demons, and then I was now think of the high hill depression. We'll talk about the faces cover, but you see the high heels in the cover, which I think is a cool easter egg, that if you look at the cover long enough, you'll find a lot of references to songs and specific lines, but yeah I just put epic rain mostly because This is my favorite song, it just a great song. So that's the sandwich. So's recap your sandwich or quick. Your damage my sammy, the brain. we had inside outside, which was iceberg. Lettuce. Sauce was happy birthday, which, for some icing in paraguay it how making this amateur right now the cheese grand finale, which was gonna, be some old groups like some blue cheese, stinks and then the protein,

gimme ball of it just doesn't matter right right right, so my my white bread was the oblong. Such special sauce was colours and shapes. My cheese was friends. The meat was right I think those cool under no my sammy bs so transition into some of the questions that we got we put out media for anyone the question or wanted to address something about faces. We got it quite a few attractive, pick ones that were coming up multiple times through the most common question was were or interest, was the cover to others. covers, I guess technically, there's the one. Everyone knows which is the yellow, abstract image and by his brother, but there is also an alternative color covered that I think mac himself drew is a true unless I wanted it like the catching on its from the folded

I only uploaded to the mac miller website and it says cover that maka wanted originally ok or something it's like the caption on the picture can't have that I get sometimes or just say miller and be referring to his brother allotted time later. Yeah, that one is if you're not familiar with it. It's a man holding a bare mask about over his face and a bare holding a human masses over his face and they're just looking at each other in some kind of bourbon catch, bear so I'll atossa to you, because I know you pray thought about this more than I have, I love covers yeah yeah, What's your breakdown for us? It's like so perfect in that that art sense in the way that you can stare at it forever answer to put there. You can find different faces in the cover you can have

front. Hallucinations, with it mac talked about and in the book of mac, theirs. little bit more discussion. This, like me, was having hallucination He was seeing faces in the things around him, and that was very profound him and you can do that with the cover. The yellow choice is incredible in a literary sense, like of the other wallpaper, which is a short story dealing with insanity and being surrounded by that sickly, yellow as a good sign. the impending insanity, mac is obviously dealing with some of that mental health. You have on the album, I think It's really neat how you can kind of see his face. If you look at that blue part in the corner that looks the outline of his hair- and I think we we pointed out on social media, but if you look at the cover for circles- and you put them together there. You do see max head and his thing there's aligning with that, which is incredible and I'm gonna go ahead and think it's purposeful.

I mean it's just too much of a match, but again we had to say these things and think these things, because of how abstract that faces cover is Another thing I think about is like poets torn apart so has his face on like a lot of his album covers on the surrounding ones around the faces he does right. So watching movies at the sound off too good? A m I got his face there, but faces kind of shows it like blowing up and exploding with a bunch of these thoughts, and we see that in the mixtape form, and it's just really cool how it continues those kind of themes since the psychedelic references do seem d, continue to from the watching movies cover. Where that was like a naked lunch, in a reference like William burrows in the hooker called naked lunch and he's sitting there eating an apple interviews. People kept asking mac with that cover was about music is got religious symbols, but I want people to figure it out. So is

in like think about it for themselves, is obviously like pushing covers that are like that. Yeah yeah. It's cool! Also, how those from my faces being so multiple too, but I am where he showing his yawning face. Where is showing a new face and waking up with something I could probably talk buttercup yeah yeah that that was my main takeaway was just like the continued exploration of self, which is you touched on, which is like reflected in the art where yeah you're going to find something new. Every time you try- and what you see now, it's not necessarily what you'll see later and it's not what you said saw last week of tying into this idea of a dented. He being fluid and ever changing, and not something you really ever pinned down there's deftly easter eggs and just to be clear like the hand theirs

he's a hand that goes up over his face if you're looking at the whole image as max face, there is the prominent hand with by the most visible or most concrete thing is the hand and mac has tons of pictures of him in that same exact, pose covering your face with his hand. So it seems like I dunno if it was based off a certain image, but that was definitely oppose, that mac tended to do throughout his career and which covering up the face is interesting this, like the thing like the world in his hands and giving it back thirty tonnes ban on watching movies, and, I think is present. subliminally in some bars on faces in him holding his head. in his hands and that being the world and things like that right. Of you are looking at the album cover they really. image, if you're familiar with it, is incorporated somewhat in on the right

you're right, you'll see the bear with the human mask, and he's looking at, no one, because the human is now floating above the bare, so that seemed to come from the original cover that mac wanted. There is kind of like a mushroom, a red mushroom in the upper right, and you can kind of c two faces in black beneath it There is also like I interpret in theirs. I got a swooping in them in a direct middle, the little bit up from centre, others kind of like this swooping, but looks like legs and, if you're loosely, you say, high heels, which I think not to that line in rain, though we talked about, there is an obvious seem like an obvious cocaine reference and the lower kind of left with there's a. I think it looks like a com and then like em.

you're the lower something cuttin it sent cuts cutting cocaine but also looks like a portal which makes sense again like these are just kind of offers. Observations that I've as I continue to look at it, I dunno if he had anything specific to call out and that you saw on it I mean I mean I think those things get it all they were the I we need to clarify like that under the mushroom like if you look at I like the silhouette made in yellow by the black shapes. This look like faces or like pdf, their heads and yeah and like the mast creatures that might have been the original cover mean to me, there seems to be a difference or an evolution from having to people wearing man so the exploration of faces as they directly relate to each other with like the dual nature of the two people,

This one seems to show off the infinite aspects of an individual, so I think that that might be part of like that, the medic discussion, or at least decision to change it from the two fate two creatures looking at each other to this one face exploit into infinite d of interpretation. Of the the looks like maybe a plant that's dying does my thought on it, like something here like wilting, I'm not sure like what type of plant it might be, but I like like a dying plant. I think you, you have some sense of decay things like that, and if we talk about like the abstract art, I thought about this it's like one of only like big effort pieces. I know it's like wherein occur by picasso like the death part of this, like the explosion in how something can like rip things open and caused a k. That part seemed like similar to me, but again, unlike not

in art, history, yeah, yeah, it's incredible art and really well done. The colors are amazing and then done by max brother, so they read. I liked the new version of it too. Pretty cool yeah yeah, it works, ok and briefly interrupting this episode. This is future call recording the day after we record this and because last night I was looking at the faces, cover art again, and I think I made a pretty big breakthrough that I haven't seen anywhere on the internet, which is really surprising, because it's very obvious once you know it. So, if you're, looking at the

Faces cover just regular, as we talked about as max face with his hand over his face, we think with all kinds of easter eggs in there, but if you flip the image ninety degrees to the to the left, so I guess counterclockwise it becomes a very clear, boat and you'll see the blue and the black parts become the foundation of the boat. The white hand becomes the sail and you'll see very clearly a kind of depth.

English looking creature with horns manning the ship and which I want to do a video on this on social media which hopefully will be out by the time. You guys hear this, if not definitely follow at dissect podcast on tiktok or instagram, and where are I'll break this down a little bit more with visuals. But my initial theory is that this ties into Larry fisherman his producer, alias and the that get makes sense and gives new texts to the yellow background, because larry fishermen max alias producer, alias, had started with faces era, where's of yellow spot on, yellow fishermen, suit clean the fishermen hat. But then, if you were right take the image another ninety degrees. So it's totally upside down, it becomes

another environment, the the hand becomes what I think is MAC Millard. There is clearly a head at the top with a hood on an max. The fingers become legs almost like octopus legs. If you look below the fit the white figure main white figure, whose kind of floating which kind of ties into the psychedelic vibes at the album and there's what now looks like a piano player and the red right below the white hand, there's a red figure that looks like he's playing the piano and the the dying plant becomes like a light hanging off a ceiling and where the circular cocaine cutting become kind of earth, night light or a skylight, and also the blue becomes more water, like it kind of looks like tides of an ocean, but also

the sanctuary were, or mac recorder faces was the poorhouse duty I studio made out of the full house in the pool was right. There are so that might be alluding to that. So look at it on your own. Let me note you think, on social and again I'll break it down a primate, more sense when you see the visuals along with our not sure how much since I'm making here without the visuals in front of you but try it

rotate around the boat is like. I think, it's kind of undeniable that that's that's part of it and I think the total upside down image is depicting the sanctuary in some way and and announce incredible and and the whole thing kind of ties back to this idea of faces. Being perception and mac seeing faces in different things and and the cover art seems to suggest that that that philosophy that you can look at look at this image in a number of perspectives, and it's going to change in your meaning in your perception or perception in and kind of what you think about the image going to change. Depending on how you look at it, which seemed to be a big thematic idea that runs throughout faces. Like you know, seeing faces what's behind the face and all that stuff. So.

Let's get back to the episode thanks and thanks for indulging me and again follow at dissect podcast and I'm hoping to have the video up by the time that this publishes, but if not it'll, definitely be coming soon. So back to the episode Ok, so did you have any it's on the new track yeah, and why do you think it was picked to be the bonus for faces? ladder far the question I mean I'm assuming the same for you, but we can only guess me, I mean mca. Tons of songs were not really sure. I think there has been any quotes to why the specifics on was chosen is produced by dj die. He would is one of my favorite producers. So that's cool, but yeah did you ever. I know you are, but you're gonna pick it for one of your sandwiches. Yes, so do you have any thoughts on it I mean I love this art like one day, That's our research process is like I have gone into the unreleased vaults, a bit and z. And find just to see, because certain

this kind of like that and yes, like nature, is like it's the unruly stuff that got put out, but there's a there's a thing, with mac with all artists of like what stuff they dont released, What's, if we let out in showed the world verses, what we don't What we mean when we don't like all these things are in play, the the votes for mackerel, credible and some of the is very hunting the song, thing to me has been a hunting one. When I first heard the leak now hearing I think it's it's like so majestic so like it's really beautiful but it's really beautiful in his reckoning with the fact that he's of on this journey. He can stop it, but he's going to eventually right. He wants he's asking if he can stop running. If you can like go home, if you can stop the journey, but he's is at the end like asking to fade away like he's asking for the ability to make this last longer,

then a hard stop. What I think might have been a real danger at this time and if you look at his life in those things, it's just really beautiful, and it seems really honest and compelling at some very happy that it's out now to create here. also. We also got asked what are some of the best don't see able to find about the sanctuary there. We addressed a lot of them throughout ers, savage discussion, meda, last year, but do you explain the the clockwork flute Others are those I caught data like we're. Gonna like an incident live one time in was talking about. Inside outside, like there's a flute in the back, I kind of playing the melody and accordingly clockwork. He was like yeah I was on molly and had not play the fluids That was a child, but then I just picked

in the song was kind of playing, and so then I played that thing on top of it, and it was like. Oh my god, how are you doing their images through him in and there's a lot of talk in the mac as great stuff about this, because, like there is talk of, they come. At eight, a m in the morning, one day after being up all night working, they then went to the music store, bought a bunch of classical instruments and then like come back into it? Labour max is about a cello. Now all is play it yet just done that yeah, it's crazy! How this like they were just invent. If we're going to have fun we're going to play with all the instruments and all the tools is amazing, yeah yeah, I looked. I watch the video yes, he said clockwork says is high and molly the night before alone. He, though, and playing the flute for like thirty minutes and recording himself- and I guess mac was like super interested in that and fascinated by him record himself doing that alone, I get a thing he's looking in the mere while his duties. I look in the mirror like talking when I went back and was like ok, I gotta go this net flute. I was bursting.

because it's so out of tune like horribly, I mean, quotes horribly out of tune so perfect, as it still fits but like if you listen for it. This is how we out of key and its is gonna, get kind of speaks of that playful nature of the process. Like it's a lot of beautiful imperfection in this album we hear max sniff and I mean I've issue like there's some stuff that goes with that hearing sniff like you don't hear a rubber sniff that mistakes. I don't hear coughs. I don't hear like all of stuff in a lot of polish rep, the imperfections we had this like lived in human quality, this, like really amazing, to hear this Ok there's one easter egg. I want to break up in the song angel dust, come dark, but also very cool

so he sent you can hear snorting in getting obviously referring to angel dust which can be snorted but hee. He samples that snort from the beginning, the second half of the song and brilliant part. Is he uses it use it as a rhythmic instrument because he places it on the upbeat so is literally snoring he's living up like you can hear him sniffing up really what this angel dust which is like I think that we get a result such a billion dollars? A year Anecdote was the song thumbelina, which is probably the like my least favorite

song on here, but then after reading about this, I appreciate it much more because I didn't write that guy's name. I forgot, who said it in the book, a mac, though there It was in the morning and I guess max neighbors had formed a committee to evict him. Recently. The obvious for obvious reasons. Yes, there's like others around the reality tv show where his neighbours are mad at him his friends sort of bring like over cookies and they're still mad. So I guess they were talking about that and then they made the song thumbelina. That day and and if you list That's why he goes on this ran in the beginning like say, fuck you suck, my dick saw his neighbors. but they also sample the bbc bought beastie boy song. Slow right is repeating sample, but if you can, I didn't What are you saying that the samples they got a committee to get me off? The block livin, although it is more

This is why we always by fire. You got a large while your money, where your mouth is being sample over and over and over, which had in maybe it's time to take it out. But, like you know what it is like, oh well, what I thought was a really cool. Did you having it any other anecdote. Secondly, my like I like every time, thundercats talks about it. Like you talk like talking, link is playing there and being the stuff they created. I mean thundercats. Having also have averted, they have class, but they are now that it has won the most important musicians of the twenty first century and like this I just love hearing what he his experiences yeah everyone go, get the book a mac when it comes out next year. I think preorder now, but it's it's

we'll talk about a lot with Donna next week, but it's collection of her essays and then she spoke directly to a lot of max collaborators. People like the thundercat and their their interviews are transcribed throughout and it's organized by each album. So it's it's a really insightful yeah How do you think faces contributes to the evolution of mac as a wrapper rider. Storyteller I mean this is like an explosion of crete every right like he's making so much at this time too. I think I think you look the timeline releases and like he's got identities he's playing with? Also, it he's got like the Larry love seen you maybe he's got a delusional thomas project and this is him bringing those into like mac miller. Like that's, really cool, and he does a little bit of that on watching movies. Delusional thomas makes a couple appearances there, but two him, bring all these identities on a project called faces and to have this explosion is really great.

How honest he is. Our he's like being free with everything, I mean to me. This is like his best rap outcome. The rent I guess, there's apparently like nine other albums worth song, the working on so much at this time, which is, I got us, it's not even sure the exaggerate, but it came up multiple times and if you think about it, if hughes was it two years, are near the recent sanctuary. The tumult will you smoke, yeah so two years, if you think about the math of that, it's like her case. literally every day, working on music. And if you did once on a week in two years, that's over a hundred songs, you know sounds like it does add up, and it makes sense. The way I think about his like there's idea like ten thousand hours, do ten thousand hours of any one thing and you become a master. I feel like he's really putting in that work with faces and anything everything it has to do about this era of just being in that room and his writing an end is committing to getting

her and being free with whatever style of music and kind of warring about where it can go later. It seemed like there's a yeah that freedom to creation- and I really do think it's cool that he's? was able to synthesize, like you said, those different sounds and those different is into mac miller, I'm starting out with? I can see why, We start out with the side projects that he didn't really want to attach, because there are early versions and he was kind of feeling out what those sounds are going to be but like faces, but especially when he gets into his proper albums, get a m divine femen. And then swimming? He is really starting to synthesize every interest. Every sound every facet of of what you wanted to be in single, singular works outward cohesive that in just six or one sounded a song in an export and others.

in another song is like no, it's going to be all immersive all one time without much of a differentiation is like this is the sound. This is mac so yeah. I think I think that the work you know, I think it pay dividends in terms of what he was able to do creatively after faces the faces air. I guess we could call it a helmet and it it. It seems, like When did when did chance. The rapper's coloring book come out, and was that, like two thousand and fifteen, I think she doesn't think a year or two after which was like to me like that's like the death of miss mixtape like isn't like chancellor, like the next I do here, but then, That is an album that was a quota mixed data and like it was in that way for years, you know where I feel like there, this really golden era of late mix tape, soon with kendrick mac with jake hall. Like this this this new group

following the tradition of wayne of obviously but one women came, it was like mix safer, redundant right, like you, too, download, something just wasn't doesn't make sense anymore, but faces like is a mixed. It like feels genuinely like one of those classic mixed tapes. I really appreciate it about. Work going back to it? Just because you don't hear this kind of looseness in projects that much anymore released the things that I've I've been listening to like that there is that free. That of just doing whatever you want and not having to work, about sample clearances. Because for mixed apes you don't have to declare sample so little, you, can, put anything on an outline. What I just love that he went all in with that and is made The sprawling? I usually hate long albums there,

for whatever reason, I dont minded the length on this. It makes sense to me- and there is not really too many lows, at least not where to the point where, want to skip songs and the length reflects that they, like it, feels benjy now feels like the late night. It feels like a long night like anyone. as a lot of the time that I spent listening to this in the last year is like late night writing and like it feels perfect in that time, like bright lerius, mostly, but He has a day is like blurring into each other s. Yeah. I can see that right. So, the last question will address. Where do you rank faces among other albums and pray? Jax. I haven't really done an official thought out ranking, so I'm going to do this on the fly, but what he got I mean so are circles and swimming different, or can we make them one they always incoming. We can make him one of those purpose if their one there one like if someone is over there, one then I'd have faces as too

So, like top three has two type. Five was due to other time. Ok, tougher than you have to it's either. I don't know what you're prepped here tonight I mean like: ok, so de swimming in circles, so make I'm gonna go amiss with them. Our goals is one to me. While is about something because and we'll talk about in this. In the circumstances it is eternal and they stuff going on. I think that is for me puts it up at one then swimming faces device feminine and then probably like, maybe but always in unreleased, one so dull, thomas is just a crazy in fun out of about it for fairer that yeah I'd minds pretty much the same except swimming this fleet, so swimming summer, one circles two faces three to five hundred and four and then fell. I would probably be probably good. I am

they're watching movies. I needed listener watching movies. More though, because I love returning to after faces, which I did this week. it, has a lot of same characteristics as faces not quite as free, but I liked I liked it it more returning to after faces so we'll see where it ends up in a more thought out ranking. But that's how I would probably characterize right now, gotcha comment. I think more we can ended. There was yet anything else. Now. That's one Talk about mac, I'm so happy we got faces, so many more people are exposed to faces that it is performing so well that and see that, although That's out there for mac is really beautiful. and it's been with, the season has been beautiful and I just love every talk about other stuff. Yeah really gets it again. This cover unique experience to kind of, could you get like album anniversaries, but it's just not the same, and so to get to real,

if an album release, especially after some one passes like this, and it's like it's not a new work but kind of feels new and my Also, this quality, like there's a real part of it, is the reality of the way area exactly here remember thanks for joining we're gonna, we'll talk to don next week. We'll have a couple more these conversations with you towards the end of this, swimming in circles, probably do but yeah, we'll job. So far you two were doing it think. So I think so it's better really meaningful season. So far receives and means a lot to me, but I would say this one is shaping up to be re special more than I thought I was gonna be,

so yeah thanks area for listening, and that our I welcome that is keep at it.