This week, after 11th-hour bombshell allegations of abuse were revealed, we meet the seven men and five women who will ultimately be deciding Elizabeth Holmes’ fate. We take a peek inside the courtroom, and speak with some of the potential jurors who were dismissed. We’ll hear firsthand what Elizabeth’s demeanor is like in the courtroom, what the prosecution and defense appeared to be looking for in a jury, and details about who was actually chosen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Last week on the drop out alive,
homes on trial?
with introduced bombshell allegations of abuse against her former boyfriend and there are no seo sunny by wanting this is a huge d. All hours of homes is essentially alleging a decade long, history of systematic abuse, sexual abuse, even physical abuse, sunny categorically denied the claims, but will this defence strategy work or will jurors, find it hard to square with the Elizabeth witnesses say they once knew. There was clearly be Elizabeth Show. There is no question about it. This week we meet the twelve men and women who will ultimately decide Elizabeth Spade from ABC Audio. This is the drop out Lisbon homes on trial episode, three, the jury
It's been a busy weak in the criminal trial of Elizabeth HOMES outside the Robert of Peckham Federal Court House. It can feel like a circus there's, a growing gag of media outlets from all over the world. A b c news Feel producer, Deah Athens, Ben their showing up early. Each morning I arrived around four
Forty five to the court house- and there is already several media outlets- doing life shots outside inside
judge tablets, court room. It's
other story. There are no
comrades, their spacing for covert, and if you remember
of the perhaps or someone who wants to come have a look. You need a ticket
sweet. There were only about seventeen free seats. D has been filling one.
Stay of jury selection, watching
The lawyers carefully sift through perspective jurors said.
Persecution has four attorneys that were in the courtroom.
Jeanne has six attorneys. Whatever
regular, I saw was carrying what I thought was a diver bag the whole.
What team is very well put together there,
polished may soon. It's nice bags, myself
which is almost there
straight out of allay law. As for Elizabeth in court she's
and poised and laser focused so Elizabeth
that wretched in her chair, she took handwritten nodes sheet.
and her shoulders and litter
a trained her whole necked, embody around when their potential jurors were entering the court room, so she could try to make eye contact with them
of two hundred forty potential jurors, were initially summit to complete questionnaires, Michael Rock, afford
it was one of them jerk.
Number, seventy eight memory,
over this unlike wait. A second am I really being.
For this. This is like a huge case, Michael made it through the
first round, along with one hundred thirty two other prospective candidates, but he says
even bigger, surprise came when he showed up for jury selection
and saw Elizabeth standing right at the courthouse entrance and that, for
I didn't know if it was her not because I beseech you had the mask on so I crossed my mind. Is that her the shoes
just like staring at all the jurors ass, they walked in. Looking as if she's
agreed us something once inside the court room Michael
called up to the podium for individual questioning by judge, Dollah Michael said,
Even then he could feel it was
staring that's
I m really kind of hear me because you is probably five feet away, like I'm supposed to say all this stuff like right in front of her when she was kind of
looking out, I suggest, fell very kind of bewildering and ashes site, I'm not really sure what she's going
we're here. She seemed confident poise even
like a little bit in tents and then Judge
novel is questioning started. I told them what I do,
work in the challenges said it would pose just because it would be difficult to do my job living too
avoid a major new story. Basically Michael works as a pretty
zero for a radio station in San Francisco even made it
talk about how frequently farragos comes up. I'm with you
computer initial stare knows there knows there knows that I'd be like crap. What am I supposed to do so? I would say that was
suggested. It I didn't say: oh crap, though it was pretty cool,
The judge, Davilow Michael, wasn't going to be a good fat. He said something to be effective
two percent sure fear right
trial is. Is it better to say- and I wish to say yes
came off what you a little bit matter of fact. I wasn't trying to like sound any kind of way or like be funny in any kind of way, but that drew like little chuckles from the crowd and actually at that point it was
Poems can I looked back at me and chuckled herself. We like made eye contact for a second. What, with that, like
and I felt like I had already walked eyes with her once or twice already. So I was gonna like whatever about it, but tat. It was kind of funny. I wishes break
whatever I'm out of here. So Michael left court
but the great story of his own. So
now that you're on the other side of this one
Your boss save
thought it was really cool. We just and making jokes like. I wish I knew in the press, box and stuff like that to be done as you request
Even in the midst of this high stakes, selection judged,
a cap things like cures. Dear asked again, he's
friendly guy.
Personable what the jurors he seemed to really care about how comfortable they were. He would indeed
in them and tell little stories about himself and it seemed to help
the ice with
dabbling in a rapport with all these panel.
do you witness the whole process and some other candidates dismissed for a variety of reasons.
One potential juror, sectarian member forms has a penchant for black turtle naps.
Another woman talked about how she saw some funny means on Miss forms. Another woman who was eventually dismissed works in a healthcare related failed, and she said that she was just disappointed by this case. Has just not many women who get to become see, owes of high powered companies in this case the junk
to construct the ideal jury started months before the trial began. When team
Isabel proposed, a questionnaire forty five pages, and one hundred and twelve questions long too weak people out. Jury selection is a little bit of a misnomer
process is really a process of diesel action, Jim
Legality is a professional jury consulted he's not envy.
With the homes trial? What he's been here?
here by many big name, defence teams to whittled down the best prospects for their side on allotted
It is their evolve. You no fortune final
companies who are involved in high stakes litigation monopoly.
Claims patent
use, Chrome,
cases and it turns out crafting the perfect jury is big business. A jury consultant
to obtain an hourly rate of anywhere between four hundred
cheers six hundred dollars an hour. How much money when it during consulting cost for a peace, like the trial of Elizabeth
jobs could be anywhere from fifty
Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in interest would depend on the bare rates it might even be more than that in their proposed question here in the defence was looking frank.
audibly detailed answers to things like. Do you, social media? How frequently have you ever posted
messages comments or opinions on websites, social media or blocked. They wanted it
as candidates to detail any medications they take that might impact their ability to serve on a jury and offered
Annex is an example of something that could make you sleepy to prosecution called the whole thing
far too long, deeply, intrusive and unnecessary ways, argumentative and repetitive, and the judge agreements
regards
giving down the actual questionnaire to about twenty eight pages and sixty eight questions long
when in a lot of high stakes status is best standard operating procedure? We always ask for more,
Since then we expect to have were made
and there is also some horse trading, because between both sides will keep this quest.
If you allow us keep. This question is
negotiation
final questionnaire, especially focused on each candidates, media diet, including whether they do
Just listen to, or were even told about, work like this podcast drop out and are ABC
when he twenty documentary, Canada.
had to circle the names of reporters on a list, mine included, if they follow
this in any way disclosed when I listen to the drop out
ass on a road trip, I'm a red lots of articles on the case
Kenny Mustafa, was perspective jure number one hundred and sixteen
the name and immediately I was like out its, but in this case this is a big case.
It was a little bit surreal. Colonel
of the story almost certainly rolled her out, most of them
bridge that I had seen about always
Phones and their nose had not been positive in San Jose going in that. That was my biased opinion. Obviously, I would have
evaluating the case that the evidence has presented by going in that was kind of my vices was, you know she had
agent, some shady behaviour within it,
Benny, I'm at the science was and all their Kelly's
a crowd, also posed a problem in terms of her potential bias, considering Elizabeth Attorneys plan to focus on abuse and her defence, so I went for a nonprofit legal aid organisation, I'm a family law. Turning and I represent survivors
the domestic violence, sexual assault and human trafficking. Well, that's interesting. Did you see any of the news that came out about Elizabeth HOMES and what her team intends to argue? I would imagine that would be especially
relevant. You, given your work, I guess that's why I wanted to make that full disclosure and let them know that I didn't hear about this strategy and let them evaluate whether they thought that I would be a good job for this case. Considering my background and well
biggest concern was finding unbiased jars,
Kemys says she was surprised at how many people apparently said. They'd never heard of Elizabeth haunts register remembrance,
a whole half of the room. There is nobody who said today even been a pen
and seemed any news about the case or any knowledge about the case
Gimme also says she had a very different experience than Michael in court with Elizabeth. Did you ever make eye contact or see her making eye contact with other jurors? Now I wonder
that's interesting, I spoke to a potential jure who was dismissed. Who talked about a lot of eye contact with Elizabeth. I know I've had it with her and I didn't see her making contact with anybody out there
One other thing stood out to kill me. I was the only black person envy entire court room. So I can say this. Unlike
There be any won't be born on the jury, but I think that's prices the make up of Silicon Valley.
During a sidebar conversation without the jurors present. U S prosecuting attorney Jeffrey Shank, wanted it on the record that the defence had been releasing many non white jurors that
insisted that race had nothing to do with their dismissals defence.
Leader turning Kevin Downy said, I just want to dissociate myself in strong terms with Mr Shanks comments here,
jury consulted. James MC parity is
is a shocking sort of back and forth ers. This standard for what goes on. In these cases, Christian,
What is raising is at issue color Bass and challenge where its impermissible,
for authorities to strike jurors from a cool based on
race alone. So here it's probably something there.
Once on a record in case the trial,
you go his way, so you can raise deserts an appeal issue, but James doesn't action.
Think race would play a huge role here,
raise engender alone, are typically poor. Predictors,
whether a jurist favourable or unfavourable farm
reliable projector are
attitudes, beliefs and life experience,
and those things are more reliable mass predictors, because those who things that filter the way that human beings taking information
It was clear from the selection process. The government and team Elizabeth have very dear
ideas about who will make the ideal jure, according to defence, a turn,
dick to guarantee whose currently,
representing, accused, murderer Robert Durst, the government's best candidate would look something like this
money that has absolutely no empathy for a person, that's in trouble and someone that wants to
Enforce the law, no matter what, without it
Human understanding. That people are perfect, probably wants me
will it have lost money on investments with some company. That's gone bust
Defence attorney Jose by as whose represented everyone from Casey Anthony to white collar criminals, says the government's goal is to pack
jury with the law and order crowd. People who like to play it safe and people who have been wronged in the medical profession are displeased with the current care that we risk.
and the way the system is set up. You don't want any mavericks or visionaries on your jury. If your prosecutor, as for the defense Jose, says heat below
for people who might be able to put themselves in Elizabeth Shoes
small business owner or
when we started their own business. I think that would be a huge because you
People who have the audacity to take a chance to risk their livelihood on something: that's unproven,
and at the same time they could relate to Heaven.
Bad people working for you more.
sometimes things that are outside of your control and then sometimes your lack of knowledge in a certain area.
Here's. What jury consultant James Mc Geraghty had to say the ideal drew for Elizabeth HOMES,
would be some wine do, will look after her or find her to be alive.
All kind of person,
Yours identifies with Elizabeth homes
has either personally or know someone close to those who believe
they have been wrongfully prosecuted in a case stages.
A general mistrust of governmental authority figures.
You were the government. Who would be your
de Jure, my
the would be people with a victim mentality.
people, who are what we call lie in order types who invest a lot of phase
the law law enforcement people
believe that
charges against
like MRS harms would not be brought unless there is solid evidence
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Both the prosecution and the defence fought hard to have their ideal jurors selected
and now we know who will actually be
Evan men and five women ranging in it.
from nineteen to about sixty most students.
He might shore at all in court during the selection process, and can he was right there,
no black, jurors or alternates of the twelve jurors. Six are white.
Four Hispanic and to our asian there?
Also to yours in that group who disclosed English was not their first language ones,
elected juror, said she used translation software on her phone to understand some of the words in the questionnaire
in addition, there are five alternates, here's ABC
field producer DIA, often again, the youngest at nineteen is a recent high school graduate of Homestead High School and Cooper Tino she's out
They get in her braces off in two weeks time
The male jurors have long gray, pony tales and one of them side. Oh boy,
when he was selected
our job, maybe in his late twenties early thirties wore a sleek
hurry and a black mask with a Tesla logo which just
screen were in Silicon Valley, so will it
this jury tilts, more male and female James
clarity, the jury consultant had this to say, you're fired,
sign. Elizabeth homes is team. I would probably not be thrilled there.
Older males are more prevalent in the jury panel
then others I would probably preferred
more females or younger
and would identify with her but look after and would it
or to a lower
standard and be more inclined,
to believe
story that she was manipulated by our partners site
then she would have a hard time, convincing older
males. That was the case, but
consulting is more art than science. We also
both to Natalie Davis, a jury consultant and Professor America at Birmingham Southern College. She thinks fee
male jurors, might generally be less sympathetic to Elizabeth women.
Trust women,
one example I can give you. I was doing himself and in
very first major case on breast implants. Young female jury
dont all over her how stupid
Could she bay- and I think there are women
I won't be hard on this case.
Now the model used Ebay. That's it that's a factor now
He says it could depend on how Elizabeth presents herself in court.
There are two Elizabeth theirs
Steve Jobs, Elizabeth, strong, determined
ready to go, and then
little girl Elizabeth
saying with offences were more
I really want to preserve her
as wrong and request
Will the jury, buyback defence
that women are much more likely not to believe Elizabeth to be a weak person.
And how might the age of each juror play into all this, for example, that nineteen year old
here's James Mc Charity
younger jury may not have a lot of phase and law enforcement may have had negative
serious days with law enforcement, Natalie Dean,
agrees. Ya
jurors could work and Elizabeth Favour, but for a different reason,
receive young yours
to be much more sympathetic to her. I think that young
yours oppression.
Integration,
knowledge,
the partnership in a way that older yours, my not, and I think that both well from his arms
while many jurors said, they'd never heard of thereunto or Elisabeth homes before once
he'd watched sixty minutes peace a few years ago. How's that going to play
Well, knowing that someone has watched this sixty minutes episode about Elizabeth HOMES tells me
very likely have stronger opinions about the case.
More than that, maybe strong.
leaders in deliberations to women
selected as a adjure and another is an alternate disclosed. They'd, witness domestic
islets growing up something James thinks what
favour, the defence and potentially help Elizabeth
story is going to be. She was control by our partner
and had very little room to make decisions on her on that
German who would identify, was bad and understand that it may be more inclined charge. You
Herbie House.
I understand that circumstance better than others and finally, now
This happened inside a vacuum covered
still a consideration and both sides
read to eliminate unbox needed candidates from the pool which could play out
some interesting ways.
Those who say, I'm not getting vaccinated cause. I don't trust this. It does it work, we'll make me say:
all those crimes are the ones who just don't trust government that would constitute a problem. I think
the prosecution. However, they're not gonna be selected.
We have already been business now,
Prosecution won't have to worry about that, but now
Davis also believes getting rid of anti authority. Jurors could also be a win for the defense
This has created a board of directors from a company.
And the names are named, you now have every Kissinger Rupert Murdoch
general message or a lot of the elite. Did you have a relationship with Henry Kissinger, China who introduce thresholds and the folks who don't trust government, don't trust in institutions. They believe the elite is trustworthy
and remember in this same being judged. Dabbler also ruled the jury will hear details of Elizabeth Elite Lifestyle which defensive
Ernie, Caroline policing feels could hurt her.
but in some generalizations about her luxurious lifestyle and you're, the private Judson and all the fancy vacations. I think that it really is going to have an effect on the jury. Its way
for the prosecution to get in any of this evidence. Frankly, because what that does it separates the jurors from
suspended because it saw out of this world so and reliable.
so, unlike anything, babe likely ever experience that they're gonna really see her eyes and other that's the first sort of step
Road towards getting a connection when the jury can identify themselves with the defendant, so
each side got its ideal jury. It still hard to tell both the government and Team Elizabeth have their work cut out for the next thirteen weeks until mid December jurors. Will your evidence Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday judged novelist, says he'll shorten the dates to fight juror fatigue, but one thing
is for sure. Next week is crucial.
a moment. Both sides need to nail,
Coming up on the drop out Elisabeth homes on trial, the attorneys
At this stage, I think already statements are very important. You have the jury's attention. They don't go to sleep in an opening statement. There alone there ready to go. They wanna hear what you have to say the importance
and be overstated of opening arguments. It's beyond,
time that
attorney guts to talk directly to the jurors. It is a time when you are allowed much more leeway in terms of setting up your case. You don't want over promise and under deliver. That's really the kiss of death, and you want to lay out in really simple clear
concise terms why you are going to do in terms of putting on your case and, at the end, in your closing argument, you can come back and say in I told you the beginning of this case that I was going to do this this in this ends. Here's how I didn't Elisabeth homes and sunny by wanting did not respond or decline. To comment for this pod cast. The drop out Elizabeth homes on trial is written in reporting by Victoria Thomson dealer done and me victorious. The exam
producer Taylor and I are the brooding sirs for aviation audio Susie Louis producer and Madeline Wood and Norway, malarkey or associate producers are field. Producer is dear Athens for eighty sees business unit or associate producer is Victor or donors, and our production assistant is lean. Win mixing in scoring is by Susie Loo and even by Allah. Heaven also compose the music for the drop out. Artwork is by Teddy blanks chips, and why and separate HANS Tat for every see audio Liz Alessi as executive producer. Especial thanks to Josh. Tell him I'll is with Rousseau, even Rosenberg, Erika Room station. She shall be sure to subscribe to the drop out pack ass and if you like, what you heard leave us a review, it really does help listened to new episodes. Every Tuesday.
See news winner.
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Transcript generated on 2021-09-07.