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The Jury

2021-09-07

This week, after 11th-hour bombshell allegations of abuse were revealed, we meet the seven men and five women who will ultimately be deciding Elizabeth Holmes’ fate. We take a peek inside the courtroom, and speak with some of the potential jurors who were dismissed. We’ll hear firsthand what Elizabeth’s demeanor is like in the courtroom, what the prosecution and defense appeared to be looking for in a jury, and details about who was actually chosen.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Last week on the drop out alive, homes on trial?
with introduced bombshell allegations of abuse against her former boyfriend and there are no seo sunny by wanting this is a huge d. All hours of homes is essentially alleging a decade long, history of systematic abuse, sexual abuse, even physical abuse, sunny categorically denied the claims, but will this defence strategy work or will jurors, find it hard to square with the Elizabeth witnesses say they once knew. There was clearly be Elizabeth Show. There is no question about it. This week we meet the twelve men and women who will ultimately decide Elizabeth Spade from ABC Audio. This is the drop out Lisbon homes on trial episode, three, the jury
It's been a busy weak in the criminal trial of Elizabeth HOMES outside the Robert of Peckham Federal Court House. It can feel like a circus there's, a growing gag of media outlets from all over the world. A b c news Feel producer, Deah Athens, Ben their showing up early. Each morning I arrived around four Forty five to the court house- and there is already several media outlets- doing life shots outside inside judge tablets, court room. It's other story. There are no comrades, their spacing for covert, and if you remember of the perhaps or someone who wants to come have a look. You need a ticket sweet. There were only about seventeen free seats. D has been filling one. Stay of jury selection, watching The lawyers carefully sift through perspective jurors said.
Persecution has four attorneys that were in the courtroom. Jeanne has six attorneys. Whatever regular, I saw was carrying what I thought was a diver bag the whole. What team is very well put together there, polished may soon. It's nice bags, myself which is almost there straight out of allay law. As for Elizabeth in court she's and poised and laser focused so Elizabeth that wretched in her chair, she took handwritten nodes sheet. and her shoulders and litter a trained her whole necked, embody around when their potential jurors were entering the court room, so she could try to make eye contact with them of two hundred forty potential jurors, were initially summit to complete questionnaires, Michael Rock, afford it was one of them jerk. Number, seventy eight memory, over this unlike wait. A second am I really being.
For this. This is like a huge case, Michael made it through the first round, along with one hundred thirty two other prospective candidates, but he says even bigger, surprise came when he showed up for jury selection and saw Elizabeth standing right at the courthouse entrance and that, for I didn't know if it was her not because I beseech you had the mask on so I crossed my mind. Is that her the shoes just like staring at all the jurors ass, they walked in. Looking as if she's agreed us something once inside the court room Michael called up to the podium for individual questioning by judge, Dollah Michael said, Even then he could feel it was staring that's I m really kind of hear me because you is probably five feet away, like I'm supposed to say all this stuff like right in front of her when she was kind of
looking out, I suggest, fell very kind of bewildering and ashes site, I'm not really sure what she's going we're here. She seemed confident poise even like a little bit in tents and then Judge novel is questioning started. I told them what I do, work in the challenges said it would pose just because it would be difficult to do my job living too avoid a major new story. Basically Michael works as a pretty zero for a radio station in San Francisco even made it talk about how frequently farragos comes up. I'm with you computer initial stare knows there knows there knows that I'd be like crap. What am I supposed to do so? I would say that was suggested. It I didn't say: oh crap, though it was pretty cool, The judge, Davilow Michael, wasn't going to be a good fat. He said something to be effective two percent sure fear right
trial is. Is it better to say- and I wish to say yes came off what you a little bit matter of fact. I wasn't trying to like sound any kind of way or like be funny in any kind of way, but that drew like little chuckles from the crowd and actually at that point it was Poems can I looked back at me and chuckled herself. We like made eye contact for a second. What, with that, like and I felt like I had already walked eyes with her once or twice already. So I was gonna like whatever about it, but tat. It was kind of funny. I wishes break whatever I'm out of here. So Michael left court but the great story of his own. So now that you're on the other side of this one Your boss save thought it was really cool. We just and making jokes like. I wish I knew in the press, box and stuff like that to be done as you request Even in the midst of this high stakes, selection judged,
a cap things like cures. Dear asked again, he's friendly guy. Personable what the jurors he seemed to really care about how comfortable they were. He would indeed in them and tell little stories about himself and it seemed to help the ice with dabbling in a rapport with all these panel. do you witness the whole process and some other candidates dismissed for a variety of reasons. One potential juror, sectarian member forms has a penchant for black turtle naps. Another woman talked about how she saw some funny means on Miss forms. Another woman who was eventually dismissed works in a healthcare related failed, and she said that she was just disappointed by this case. Has just not many women who get to become see, owes of high powered companies in this case the junk to construct the ideal jury started months before the trial began. When team
Isabel proposed, a questionnaire forty five pages, and one hundred and twelve questions long too weak people out. Jury selection is a little bit of a misnomer process is really a process of diesel action, Jim Legality is a professional jury consulted he's not envy. With the homes trial? What he's been here? here by many big name, defence teams to whittled down the best prospects for their side on allotted It is their evolve. You no fortune final companies who are involved in high stakes litigation monopoly. Claims patent use, Chrome, cases and it turns out crafting the perfect jury is big business. A jury consultant to obtain an hourly rate of anywhere between four hundred cheers six hundred dollars an hour. How much money when it during consulting cost for a peace, like the trial of Elizabeth
jobs could be anywhere from fifty Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in interest would depend on the bare rates it might even be more than that in their proposed question here in the defence was looking frank. audibly detailed answers to things like. Do you, social media? How frequently have you ever posted messages comments or opinions on websites, social media or blocked. They wanted it as candidates to detail any medications they take that might impact their ability to serve on a jury and offered Annex is an example of something that could make you sleepy to prosecution called the whole thing far too long, deeply, intrusive and unnecessary ways, argumentative and repetitive, and the judge agreements regards giving down the actual questionnaire to about twenty eight pages and sixty eight questions long when in a lot of high stakes status is best standard operating procedure? We always ask for more,
Since then we expect to have were made and there is also some horse trading, because between both sides will keep this quest. If you allow us keep. This question is negotiation final questionnaire, especially focused on each candidates, media diet, including whether they do Just listen to, or were even told about, work like this podcast drop out and are ABC when he twenty documentary, Canada. had to circle the names of reporters on a list, mine included, if they follow this in any way disclosed when I listen to the drop out ass on a road trip, I'm a red lots of articles on the case Kenny Mustafa, was perspective jure number one hundred and sixteen the name and immediately I was like out its, but in this case this is a big case. It was a little bit surreal. Colonel of the story almost certainly rolled her out, most of them
bridge that I had seen about always Phones and their nose had not been positive in San Jose going in that. That was my biased opinion. Obviously, I would have evaluating the case that the evidence has presented by going in that was kind of my vices was, you know she had agent, some shady behaviour within it, Benny, I'm at the science was and all their Kelly's a crowd, also posed a problem in terms of her potential bias, considering Elizabeth Attorneys plan to focus on abuse and her defence, so I went for a nonprofit legal aid organisation, I'm a family law. Turning and I represent survivors the domestic violence, sexual assault and human trafficking. Well, that's interesting. Did you see any of the news that came out about Elizabeth HOMES and what her team intends to argue? I would imagine that would be especially
relevant. You, given your work, I guess that's why I wanted to make that full disclosure and let them know that I didn't hear about this strategy and let them evaluate whether they thought that I would be a good job for this case. Considering my background and well biggest concern was finding unbiased jars, Kemys says she was surprised at how many people apparently said. They'd never heard of Elizabeth haunts register remembrance, a whole half of the room. There is nobody who said today even been a pen and seemed any news about the case or any knowledge about the case Gimme also says she had a very different experience than Michael in court with Elizabeth. Did you ever make eye contact or see her making eye contact with other jurors? Now I wonder
that's interesting, I spoke to a potential jure who was dismissed. Who talked about a lot of eye contact with Elizabeth. I know I've had it with her and I didn't see her making contact with anybody out there One other thing stood out to kill me. I was the only black person envy entire court room. So I can say this. Unlike There be any won't be born on the jury, but I think that's prices the make up of Silicon Valley. During a sidebar conversation without the jurors present. U S prosecuting attorney Jeffrey Shank, wanted it on the record that the defence had been releasing many non white jurors that insisted that race had nothing to do with their dismissals defence.
Leader turning Kevin Downy said, I just want to dissociate myself in strong terms with Mr Shanks comments here, jury consulted. James MC parity is is a shocking sort of back and forth ers. This standard for what goes on. In these cases, Christian, What is raising is at issue color Bass and challenge where its impermissible, for authorities to strike jurors from a cool based on race alone. So here it's probably something there. Once on a record in case the trial, you go his way, so you can raise deserts an appeal issue, but James doesn't action. Think race would play a huge role here, raise engender alone, are typically poor. Predictors, whether a jurist favourable or unfavourable farm reliable projector are attitudes, beliefs and life experience,
and those things are more reliable mass predictors, because those who things that filter the way that human beings taking information It was clear from the selection process. The government and team Elizabeth have very dear ideas about who will make the ideal jure, according to defence, a turn, dick to guarantee whose currently, representing, accused, murderer Robert Durst, the government's best candidate would look something like this money that has absolutely no empathy for a person, that's in trouble and someone that wants to Enforce the law, no matter what, without it Human understanding. That people are perfect, probably wants me will it have lost money on investments with some company. That's gone bust Defence attorney Jose by as whose represented everyone from Casey Anthony to white collar criminals, says the government's goal is to pack
jury with the law and order crowd. People who like to play it safe and people who have been wronged in the medical profession are displeased with the current care that we risk. and the way the system is set up. You don't want any mavericks or visionaries on your jury. If your prosecutor, as for the defense Jose, says heat below for people who might be able to put themselves in Elizabeth Shoes small business owner or when we started their own business. I think that would be a huge because you People who have the audacity to take a chance to risk their livelihood on something: that's unproven, and at the same time they could relate to Heaven. Bad people working for you more. sometimes things that are outside of your control and then sometimes your lack of knowledge in a certain area.
Here's. What jury consultant James Mc Geraghty had to say the ideal drew for Elizabeth HOMES, would be some wine do, will look after her or find her to be alive. All kind of person, Yours identifies with Elizabeth homes has either personally or know someone close to those who believe they have been wrongfully prosecuted in a case stages. A general mistrust of governmental authority figures. You were the government. Who would be your de Jure, my the would be people with a victim mentality. people, who are what we call lie in order types who invest a lot of phase the law law enforcement people believe that charges against
like MRS harms would not be brought unless there is solid evidence This is broad milky. I host ABC Daily NEWS. Podcast start here. The drop out will be back in a minute, but first imagine a job site where you only have to pay for quality candidates that meet your requirements, while imagine a longer with indeed, indeed, is the job site that makes hiring incredibly simple, just attract interview and higher in that with, indeed it into all your hiring in one place, even interviewing interview people all day when I make that easy, don't just hope, you're, perfect candidate will find you indeed hiring tools, help you cut through the noise. Higher, faster and smarter, in that indeed, instant match provides a list of quality candidates whose resonates our on indeed the moment opposed to sponsor job which to me They are really speedy, online dating feature, but everyone's actually worth meeting with. Indeed, you can save time
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Have you seen this man forever? You're listening now, I want to invite you to start your day with us. Every morning on start here we die deep into the biggest news stories with some of the best journalists in the world. It smart its relevant and maybe most importantly, for you, it's quick again that start here, the daily podcast from ABC News available wherever you listen. Both the prosecution and the defence fought hard to have their ideal jurors selected and now we know who will actually be Evan men and five women ranging in it. from nineteen to about sixty most students. He might shore at all in court during the selection process, and can he was right there, no black, jurors or alternates of the twelve jurors. Six are white. Four Hispanic and to our asian there?
Also to yours in that group who disclosed English was not their first language ones, elected juror, said she used translation software on her phone to understand some of the words in the questionnaire in addition, there are five alternates, here's ABC field producer DIA, often again, the youngest at nineteen is a recent high school graduate of Homestead High School and Cooper Tino she's out They get in her braces off in two weeks time The male jurors have long gray, pony tales and one of them side. Oh boy, when he was selected our job, maybe in his late twenties early thirties wore a sleek hurry and a black mask with a Tesla logo which just screen were in Silicon Valley, so will it this jury tilts, more male and female James clarity, the jury consultant had this to say, you're fired,
sign. Elizabeth homes is team. I would probably not be thrilled there. Older males are more prevalent in the jury panel then others I would probably preferred more females or younger and would identify with her but look after and would it or to a lower standard and be more inclined, to believe story that she was manipulated by our partners site then she would have a hard time, convincing older males. That was the case, but consulting is more art than science. We also both to Natalie Davis, a jury consultant and Professor America at Birmingham Southern College. She thinks fee male jurors, might generally be less sympathetic to Elizabeth women. Trust women, one example I can give you. I was doing himself and in
very first major case on breast implants. Young female jury dont all over her how stupid Could she bay- and I think there are women I won't be hard on this case. Now the model used Ebay. That's it that's a factor now He says it could depend on how Elizabeth presents herself in court. There are two Elizabeth theirs Steve Jobs, Elizabeth, strong, determined ready to go, and then little girl Elizabeth saying with offences were more I really want to preserve her as wrong and request Will the jury, buyback defence that women are much more likely not to believe Elizabeth to be a weak person.
And how might the age of each juror play into all this, for example, that nineteen year old here's James Mc Charity younger jury may not have a lot of phase and law enforcement may have had negative serious days with law enforcement, Natalie Dean, agrees. Ya jurors could work and Elizabeth Favour, but for a different reason, receive young yours to be much more sympathetic to her. I think that young yours oppression. Integration, knowledge, the partnership in a way that older yours, my not, and I think that both well from his arms while many jurors said, they'd never heard of thereunto or Elisabeth homes before once he'd watched sixty minutes peace a few years ago. How's that going to play
Well, knowing that someone has watched this sixty minutes episode about Elizabeth HOMES tells me very likely have stronger opinions about the case. More than that, maybe strong. leaders in deliberations to women selected as a adjure and another is an alternate disclosed. They'd, witness domestic islets growing up something James thinks what favour, the defence and potentially help Elizabeth story is going to be. She was control by our partner and had very little room to make decisions on her on that German who would identify, was bad and understand that it may be more inclined charge. You Herbie House. I understand that circumstance better than others and finally, now This happened inside a vacuum covered still a consideration and both sides
read to eliminate unbox needed candidates from the pool which could play out some interesting ways. Those who say, I'm not getting vaccinated cause. I don't trust this. It does it work, we'll make me say: all those crimes are the ones who just don't trust government that would constitute a problem. I think the prosecution. However, they're not gonna be selected. We have already been business now, Prosecution won't have to worry about that, but now Davis also believes getting rid of anti authority. Jurors could also be a win for the defense This has created a board of directors from a company. And the names are named, you now have every Kissinger Rupert Murdoch
general message or a lot of the elite. Did you have a relationship with Henry Kissinger, China who introduce thresholds and the folks who don't trust government, don't trust in institutions. They believe the elite is trustworthy and remember in this same being judged. Dabbler also ruled the jury will hear details of Elizabeth Elite Lifestyle which defensive Ernie, Caroline policing feels could hurt her. but in some generalizations about her luxurious lifestyle and you're, the private Judson and all the fancy vacations. I think that it really is going to have an effect on the jury. Its way for the prosecution to get in any of this evidence. Frankly, because what that does it separates the jurors from suspended because it saw out of this world so and reliable.
so, unlike anything, babe likely ever experience that they're gonna really see her eyes and other that's the first sort of step Road towards getting a connection when the jury can identify themselves with the defendant, so each side got its ideal jury. It still hard to tell both the government and Team Elizabeth have their work cut out for the next thirteen weeks until mid December jurors. Will your evidence Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday judged novelist, says he'll shorten the dates to fight juror fatigue, but one thing is for sure. Next week is crucial. a moment. Both sides need to nail, Coming up on the drop out Elisabeth homes on trial, the attorneys
At this stage, I think already statements are very important. You have the jury's attention. They don't go to sleep in an opening statement. There alone there ready to go. They wanna hear what you have to say the importance and be overstated of opening arguments. It's beyond, time that attorney guts to talk directly to the jurors. It is a time when you are allowed much more leeway in terms of setting up your case. You don't want over promise and under deliver. That's really the kiss of death, and you want to lay out in really simple clear
concise terms why you are going to do in terms of putting on your case and, at the end, in your closing argument, you can come back and say in I told you the beginning of this case that I was going to do this this in this ends. Here's how I didn't Elisabeth homes and sunny by wanting did not respond or decline. To comment for this pod cast. The drop out Elizabeth homes on trial is written in reporting by Victoria Thomson dealer done and me victorious. The exam
producer Taylor and I are the brooding sirs for aviation audio Susie Louis producer and Madeline Wood and Norway, malarkey or associate producers are field. Producer is dear Athens for eighty sees business unit or associate producer is Victor or donors, and our production assistant is lean. Win mixing in scoring is by Susie Loo and even by Allah. Heaven also compose the music for the drop out. Artwork is by Teddy blanks chips, and why and separate HANS Tat for every see audio Liz Alessi as executive producer. Especial thanks to Josh. Tell him I'll is with Rousseau, even Rosenberg, Erika Room station. She shall be sure to subscribe to the drop out pack ass and if you like, what you heard leave us a review, it really does help listened to new episodes. Every Tuesday. See news winner. nine Edward Armor, awards more than any other network
winning the award for overall excellence in both television and radio. Abc news is America's number one source.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-07.