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What is Alternative Risk Premia and Why are Investors Excited About It?

2019-06-10

While systematic investing has origins in academia dating back to the 1950s, only in the past several years has it evolved into practical applications for portfolio construction. In this episode, Heather Shemilt and Tom Leake of the Goldman Sachs Securities Division explain how ARP strategies work and the diversification and customization benefits they offer investors. "Alternative risk premia, or ARP, are long/short strategies that are designed to generate positive returns in exchange for an investor taking risk," Shemilt explains. "These strategies are seeking to provide persistent exposure to these factors or risk premia, such as carry value or momentum...What's interesting is that ARP can be systematically harvested across all of the asset classes." Also in the episode, they discuss how the ARP industry will continue to evolve, including the impact of big data, AI and machine learning on these strategies, with Leake acknowledging adoption of these technologies is still in "early days."

This podcast was recorded on May 15, 2019.

All price references and market forecasts correspond to the date of this recording. This podcast should not be copied, distributed, published or reproduced, in whole or in part. The information contained in this podcast does not constitute research or a recommendation from any Goldman Sachs entity to the listener. Neither Goldman Sachs nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty, as to the accuracy or completeness of the statements or any information contained in this podcast and any liability therefor (including in respect of direct, indirect or consequential loss or damage) is expressly disclaimed. The views expressed in this podcast are not necessarily those of Goldman Sachs, and Goldman Sachs is not providing any financial, economic, legal, accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. In addition, the receipt of this podcast by any listener is not to be taken as constituting the giving of investment advice by Goldman Sachs to that listener, nor to constitute such person a client of any Goldman Sachs entity.

Copyright 2019 Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC. All rights reserved.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is exchanged, the Goldman Sachs were discussed, velvets currently shaping markets industries in the global economy. I'm Jake's Ewart global head of cop communications. Here, the firm in today, episode works pulling the question. What is alternative risk premium? Why exactly? Our investors excited about it? Dance were joined by Heather Shrimp and Tom leak. Heather's head of Systematic trading strategies, distribution in the Americas and head of the Strategic Cross asset solutions team. Thomas global head of the systematic trading strategies, sales, strap team and is based in London, hitherto welcome to the programme and came so had by defining what we mean exactly by alternative risk premium or air peep. What's the difference between a r p and Mart beta, which is another term. We you're throwing around a lot thanks Jacob, rate to be here at a real pleasure to be talking about alternative risk premium. So
With regards to the definitions, I think, actually it makes sense to start with smart beta and inaccurate what I say is smart data is the perfect name, because simply it's about, I'm getting smart, her or better explode. Here too. The bade us that you want in your portfolio. More specifically Smart beta are law only strategies that are designed to outperform are traditional beta in your portfolio, so it example. The MP five hundred by tilting going overweight or underweight that benchmarks, constituents so recipe, five hundred example going over or underweight the stocks in the extreme, five hundred by some characteristic or factor such as carried oh you or momentum alternate risk premium or a r p. On the other hand, our law, short strategies.
Designed to generate positive returns in exchange. foreign investor, taking risks a r our are steeped in academia. There is an abundance some research on them going back to the nineteen fifties, and so the strategies are seeking to provide persist. exposure to these factors or risk premium, such as carry value or momentum, so we think for example, in the effects world you could have The carry risk premium simply put you're going long, those currencies with high interest rates and short those currencies with low interest rates, Another example is in the equity market and there we could look at momentum risk premium and that simply going long past best performing stalks and short past. Worse performing in other words, buying the winners, sowing the losers,
interesting is that a european can be systematically harvested across all of the asset. Classes affects equities rates, credit and commodities, and what's He is, I use the word systematically, because alternative risk premium strategies or rules base, no active management nor bells and whistles, and dishes to that they are fully transparent. They offer daily liquidity. and the relatively low cost so Tom. Briefly describe how the industries involved Heather mention that has its roots in academia. What's happened since the fiftys, when this was really an act MC field, and not really practical so pretty slowly. It took so long
time to move from academic to practitioner circles, and we really had a lot of basic stuff to understand. The first key building block which happened in the sixties, was to understand that there was the market return. What we call beta and then princess to the market return alpha. Prior to that, we hadn't really separated different sources of return. What was coming from the broad market move what was from your difference in your investment portfolios to that that was done by by shop in the sixties. He won the Nobel Prize for following that there was a sequence of other academics, perhaps most famous being a pay with my family and friends. You define value size and a cup of other factors who work to define these factors or premium. They worked to find things that explained the cross section of return with the things that explain. Differences in returns between different us
and learned that some of these things had expected positive returns. I seem to do really well over the long run now that took us up to about delay. Nineteenth, and it wasn't really until then, that the hedge fund industry, the first people to come around to it, started to think about it and started to build portfolios. The stuff, but it wasn't that many hadron. There was quite a small group and they did very, very well applying this type of thinking now that takes us up to the global financial crisis and it wasn't to pose financial crisis that big institution investors started to see how they could apply this thinking. build new, broad portfolios. The bang started to get involved in around two thousand and twelve. When the big institutions were asking. Can you help us build these poor fellows? That's really where we started to get involved in the car. Why, after such a long period in the academic community, then in the hedge funds basin, active measures face why
take to build two thousand twaddle ass. Six seven years for this to get more practical, really is a technology programme. You ve gotta, look at a lot of data for a lot of different assets across a lot of different asset classes, and then you ve got to apply technology in a systematic way relative high frequency, we're not talking intraday what you ve gotta, be doing stuff, periodically daily weekly and so on, and basically the infrastructure not good enough to allow us to do it The data became widely available. There were database, You can access electronically, I'm buying systems got to the point where they could start applying this in this way. So it's really pod the Tec Revolution that we had in the last twenty years, and it really one aspect of that revolution being applied to finance the tent Medea allowed us to what are the benefits of european, particularly for these big institutional investors. What are they looking to get out of this wave investing. There are absolute multitude of benefits for
the institutional investor in their space, but I think it number one benefit number one reason for investing in alternative risk. Premier is for portfolio diversification and in specially and you think of their current environment, of historically low interest rates and high equity value actions, investors have STAR to begin rethinking their assets location approach and looking for or diversification other high sources of return that they can achieve. If you think back to how I described alternative risk premium. There strategies that are designed to exhibit positive sources of return, but they also exhibit low correlation to traditional assets So when you add them to your portfolio, not only are you able to achieve lower overall portfolio volatility, but at the same time you get higher overall portfolio returns that
overriding reason, but there's a whole host of other reasons. Portfolio, completion fun replication of form liquid arts and outperform to all beta replacement, but one thing that I think is worth turning a little bit more detail is that as the european market involves, what we really seeing is that one of the greater benefits is our the lady to customize, a r p strategies and its with customization that were able to work with clients and provide solutions to their problems: they might have a particular diversification need, or so risk target, Volor correlation nor draw down and were able to design the our peace strategy to absolutely meet their needs and I think that that's really exciting and a huge benefit for clients, apple that all with the fact that you have the day they liquidity. You have full trance
currency you have a relatively low cost and I'd say no surprise. Why so many early at a therapy so little in products were marketed as having low correlation other asset classes. It turned out not to be true, and we learned that the global financial crisis so really getting the benefits of the low correlation and real diversification. So it's a good question. I guess I'll be If I could just answer it is yes, but I think there's two things that you have to think about when it comes to the diversification. The first is that a our peace strategies are broad, the Ancoar related to each other over the long term so that it you add a basket of entropy strategies to your portfolio,
going to achieve more portfolio diversification. Then, if you just add a few select alternative risk premium strategies, and then the second thing to keep in mind is that a european strategies, especially a basket of straw, oh geez, actually exhibit low correlation to traditional assets, but I think what you maybe you're getting at is two thousand and eighteen. It was a pretty bad year for risk. Premiums are crossed. The industry so you can imagine it Goldman Sachs. We did a lot of analysis and we looked at short. Term correlations over the year as measured by I've day returns and you know what they actually held. True to their historical results, and so we looked at longer term correlations, as measured by six month returns and, in actual fact, we found that correlations.
up, and so that implies that the diversification went down. But I have to tell you Jake that in actual fact, two thousand and eighteen was a really bad year for risk premium, so what we saw is a lot more risk premium strategies, underperform and a lot fewer outperform over different period of the year and over the whole year we had very little diversification benefits. But I think what I say is the bad luck is that if you look at all ass at classes, they all performed badly, I mean really virtually except for cash. It was very difficult to find a positive performing asset in two thousand, and eighteen
So I think what investors need to keep top of mind is that adding a low or ancoar related asap to their portfolio provides valuable portfolio diversification, but what they can't lose sight of is that low correlation does not equal negative correlation. Therefore, by definition, there are going to be times when equities go down and so to rest premium. So Tom, let's talk just a little bit more about what happened in twenty eighteen Heather mention that the industry, year overall, but those double digit clients in this space. What drove? and allowed people talk about the crowding dynamic, explain what that is what you found in the research about what happened last year. It has been a big question, a lot of people who have been asked, What was the underlying factor that explained what happen
in two thousand aim. What's the narrative that connects all these things before we go into register quick, deterrent, behavioral finance? We ass humans have this desk. Need for stories? We really want to have some story that makes everything together and make sense, and in fact we is that need some even when the statistics don't actually support it, and so we should just sort of give ourselves the warning that we're about to construct a story about what happened, which will probably make us feel better, but part of it is just ass construct. A story. It isn't necessarily really statistically rigorously We need to make sure that we test our stories statistically so saying that the industry- and there were three main stories: they are inequality, crowding and risk, repressing,
didn't we meet in time, and I am sure crowding question specifically Jake. But inequality is basically the idea that markets have become less liquid, so top of order book depth. The amount of liquidity available for people trading on exchanges reduced the amount of carbon. that broke, dealers are providing on market making, has gone down more the flow was driven by intraday trade and so once it is less liquidity and that's a story. There's gotta lotta present is actually some reasonable evidence to support that particular on an intraday basis aided in arrears bring a context. We took our universe of assets that we invest in so hundred fifty hundred eighty or assets. We didn't do single stocks, we did everything else and we actually looked at the size of moves we had seen over two thousand and eighteen versus the size of moves that you see in a normal yet and we were sort of expect to find that two thousand eighteen have lots of big moved, because when we lived through the
here and semi fell like a year with a lot of idiosyncratic events, but actually what destitute showed. Is it wasn't that bad it really was in a big move year It has more than two thousand and seventeen, but less than fifty, in sixteen miles less than two thousand and eight, and that rules out this theory that much gets a moving a lot more than they used to, because it's a great story, but the data doesn't really provide answers. What we did notice was what had mentioned was actually the key thing that was different in two thousand. Eighteen was the very big shortage of staff. Jeez that performed really well, so the number does actually performed really badly was about normal need. You have loads doing really badly, but you had very, very few doing really well and that's an inch, effective, hasn't actually happened so many times in history normally have a pretty good distribution across different outcomes
and what you saw is the big drew down the happening key for lead to using. to examine premier at the end of two thousand eighteen and one things we measure is we look at what we call devaluation spreads or the carry spreads. So, let's take a carry strategy, would keep the effects example to keep it simple. Is you can look at how big is the interest rate differential between the things, your long and the things, your short and this number fluctuate from time to time and what we saw as if we measure that across our portfolio strategies across ass, it causes towards the end of two thousand and eighteen. Both the carry spreads, evaluation spreads got really really white, so one of the things that take This is why strategies were performing less well. Is that they were getting cheaper and cheaper? Essentially, the embedded value in them was getting bigger and bigger, and that sort of suggested there was this big risk repressing people demanded a higher return to hold a set of assets and that's
a reasonable as a fairy, because it also connects with traditional asset classes and its perhaps not a surprise, might happen. As interest rates start coming off the floor, fighting. The theory that we most like is the risk repressing fairy where people demanded a higher expected return for holding risk that lated into them needing wider valuation or carry spreads to buy assets, and that's really what drove the returns? Crucially, that's the opposite to crowning. If something is crowded- expect its value and carry spreads, be really tallgrass drive people buying it, so it's actually squeezing it and it's a really good counter argument to crowding because tells you that there is a lot of money flowing in the money you would flow and would cause things to converge, and so you see they stuff come down. You just don't really see that
and then interesting me. In the first quarter of this year we actually had a nice rebound. Assets came back and some of those wide carrion value spreads closed. So they move from like ninety five percent up to seventy percent of that type, a number, so things are still a little bit cheap, but does not quite as cheap as they were at the end of two in writing. Lt Cancer Heather, you mention institutional investors, that's a very broad category whose investing in a r p and is it special subset of that investing group, Originally, it actually was an especial subset, the first movers war, The nordic pension funds, and, in actual fact there is a pretty interesting story- is tat says we all like stories as to why that was true. So if you look back the two thousand and eight the noise Just bank was managing the norm, each and government pension funds proximately eight or billion portfolio they had a whole.
Slew of external managers and they thought they were pretty diversified, but guess what? In the crisis, everything went down ever so. The norwegian government pension fund commissioned a study and they hired a pretty renown, professors from Colombia, Yale and the London Business School to do study on the active management portion of their portfolio, and the result of that study was that Ninety nine percent of the performance could be represented by these risk premium. Factors that we're talking about that have been well written about in academia? So the nordic pensions read this report. and they turned to the banks, including Goldman Sachs- and they said hey. Can you replicate these risk premium strategies for us in a systematic, liquid, low cost and transparent way, and that was
really the genesis of the risk premium market so soon, thereafter, the sophisticated large Canadian and I pension funds and sovereign wealth funds began in sting and alternative risk premium, and- eventually it spread to the? U S: to Europe, to Asia, across all the regions and in of those regions. The first movers were your end: investors, the pen and endowments sovereign whilst etc. One of the things that we ve seen here in the? U S, which is a little bit different, is the big growth that we ve seen in investors then from the acid manager community and in actual fact, that probably shouldn't be a surprise, eyes- because so many of the end investors here in the? U s- require sherry to do their investing and the only other thing I'd say, is that the more really is changing and becoming a law
bigger and a lot more accepted by a lot more type of investors. If you go back just two to three years I'd be out on a marketing trip and say we saw ten investors we'd be lucky if five of them knew what alternative risk premium is today, there is hardly a client that doesn't know what alternative risk premium. Is now. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean her off investing about alternative raspberry me, but all types of clients are now investing, not just the pensions. Managers O Ceos fund funds, hedge funds, insurance companies, so virtually I'd say all types of investors interesting. So Tom what're, you mentioned factors what are some of the individual factors in air peace strategies? Often we can make this all very easy, tarragon, not specific, but we can make it super specific, and it's very, very simple:
So let us do that three main ones so value carry a momentum. Value is basically buying cheap things selling expensive and you expect to make money if prices convert really that simple carry investing is buying high yield assets, selling low yield assets, and you tend to do well when the market is come. Blogger com, you that carry premium and then mental investing is buying assets that are performing well selling assets that are performing badly as long as trends continue, you'll do well, so value does well at turning points simply put carried as well. If things stays the same and momentum does well, if trends is there, anything really knew there, or is this just the logical implications of this research that we talked about this been going on for decades surrounding the call it is very old, not me how you implement them and the details of your design, choice
really do matter in any one year. The difference between design choices can actually make a very big difference to you make money or lose money. So hitting me concept is to take very simple, easy understand, ideas that have been around for a long time and has stood the test of time. We could say and then really focus on how to implement them in a clean, low cost. Efficient. Now separate too, that there is always a new search for more effective and there has been a whole world of new papers trying find new or variations of factors, and you have to actually be selective once you outside the main academic ones about which ones you actually, two, including your boyfriend. Yet so does the court ones in them as a whole set of things which exists, because a particular supply demand imbalances in particular markets, and there are actually quite instinct that they can be very dive
Suffice to the other factors that can be a little bit more technical to access, and so some people do them. Other people choose not to, but they add a lot of value to the forefront of those. I would call more new unless academic. When you talk about these facts performing they sound so simple. Why did they profound that is the market? Basically miss priced workers through that, so the economic system at a time and is causing it's like there's money to be made. Why is that? Let's talk about the best well known premier, the equity risk premium. So why does equity markets gallop? Equity markets go up because those being liquidity provided to companies and those companies generate return. in GDP, growth for providing that liquidity and funding people receiver Rita, call reason why equity markets generate return and we would call that type of reason a risk based region People are investing their taking risk and their earning a return on the premium, such as volatility selling,
France between implied and realize volatility or the premium beyond from selling options. Again, that's a risk based premium you're, setting an option, and you can earn a return from doing so. Risk based Bremer is one of the main buckets of why these things exist. The second reason. The economics focus on a behavioral brilliant, which are basically an x nation for why things work, because people behave like people rather than behaving like fully rational computers and some adapted I'll argue that, for example, momentum comes about because of the speed of diffusion of information and markets, and that different humans reacted. Different speeds. It behavioral thing, and that is an argument. The momentum is driven by behavioral vices and finally, there are structural premium which exists because the market has
structural effect. So one of the examples is, for example, the low beat a premium where you invest in low risk assets and you sell high risk assets that exists, because that leverage aversion, if people have a shortage of cash them all to buy the higher risk ass it. So, though, things on average risk adjusted should return. Was that more flow into them? So you can make a return to take advantage of that structurally by buying the low risk selling the higher risk based behavioral structural. You talked about the devil big in the details and design of these poor fellows be very, very important. How's, it done you ve called it solutions based approach explained that means. So I think you ve got to let S. First, you have to design your printer, so how'd you actually capture that equity value, that rate or mental sullen and then the second step how you then apply that to a client portfolio and any one of the most interesting areas is how, as we understand, premium dynamics better. Picking up us
Heather mentioned the customization way able to provide so a has a particular investment programme, so that focused on my failure might do badly. In this scenario, or I need something that in a return well, when this happens and what's since you were, or the new case. I thought I had diversification turned out. I didn't write, and so by combining the different premium together, you can actually build different types of portfolios and ass said: if you take a broad poor failure, it will have low correlation, which doesn't mean negative. But if you pick certain prima, maybe you could build a negative correlation or maybe you could take a positive correlation if you want an equity replacement. So you select your bringer, build a portfolio and in doing that, you try and build a particular investment outcome which suits what they invest is for. A lot of people think we're in the late stages of a cycle right now and markets and has been talk about. How much longer can last- and we don't know-
answers no nosey answers. But how is that shaping? How institutional investors think about this particular strategy? So it's one of the big factors driving interest essentially, investors have nowhere to hide equities. Looking pretty expensive bonds are looking pretty expensive. There is reason to believe that perhaps the nice diversification effects we ve had between equities and bonds for the last twenty years might not persist. Patsy could go down together, and so investors are looking for sources of return which might be done, suffice to be scenarios now alternatives, Bream, it isn't a panacea, is looking to solve all the problems, but it's one of the areas you can look to find an asset. Will do well in different environments, and perhaps you can build a pull factor that will do well in that type environment and that's one of the reasons lots of investors are focused on the space Pisa Heather. We talked earlier about the benefits, obviously bat investing
space there, obviously some practical challenges when it comes to actually implementing one of these portfolios. One of the questions that come up with clients. When you talk about this, you now servants heard about it, but there are still some doubters. You know it's really good question in its disk leads back to the full. There are so many benefits for investing in the fact that its steeped in academia and its low cost in its transparent, so an act In fact, when we talk with clients, the investment decision meaning that decision? What premium am I going to put into the portfolio? And how am I going to construct that portfolio is actually pretty straightforward? where are the challenge comes, is on the governance side and that's where we get the most questions. Can have a client whose made the investment decision, and so the types of questions that were being a star. So? How does a r p fit within my organization? What is the best way to bench market
How am I going to get my internal stakeholders to buy into it? How do I measure, good outcomes. How do I know bad outcomes or like just more basic, How do I measure success? None of these are simple questions. None of them are easy to answer, but I and say is that for those investors who have successfully got a r p into their portfolio allocations, theirs of commonality set, we ve seen across those investors. The first is when you're making your initial r p portfolio try and make stand alone portfolio, because then it's easier to measure- and also easier for internal communication about what you're actually doing. The second thing is to think about the trade off between diversification and complexity, the more our peace strategies you put into your portfolio.
more diversification you're going to get, but at some point you just might make it too complex. So you ve gotta, think about that trade off and then the third thing is to try and old. A governance structure around and investment can be measured over a reasonable period of time So one thing that we like to say is that everyone is a long term investor until they actually invest. Finally, I think it's really important to be focused on post trade, operational processes, justice focused on that on the investment, so when you pick your counterparts make sure that they understand both the pre and post trade risk controls all those things, I think I can make it easier to get a european too. Folio. So what's next for the industry, we ve seen I'll, never see a lot of growth in recent years. Time mention that big data has been a big part of this
How will I and some of the emerging trends around machine learning change these strategies? So it still no clear, I think it's too days and the industry still working out exactly how to include these techniques into risk Clearly, there is a lot of ways of using these techniques in current investing in general and a lot of headphones spending time trying to apply this type of thinking, but in terms of respect, which is all about simple, traditional, transparent capture. It's a little bit less clear, there's been a couple of casting academic papers, particularly on the machine learning side, rather than on big data, where they found that you can use some machine learning techniques to combine premium in a more efficient way. particularly if you're trying to use a multi factor approach, which is when you are building a poor failure looking. a number of premiums binding that information and in building one portfolio there's some evidence that,
Machine learning could be helpful in that setting in terms of big data. That sort of is a hint that there's other factors out that there are other thing that can be explained and data that we have seen so far. That will allow again to go back to the original economic process and find new sources of turn on new ways of explaining behaviour, the challenge, that is, we run a couple of interesting projects. It's quite hard bill that, with very large capacity, the data tends to be more nuanced door. Detail orientated and it's actually quite difficult to find a big capacity. Big new data, But I think that the very early days in there's lots of interesting work going on so what are you both most excited about with how air pick em used as a tool for investors when I'm most cited about, is how we adapted are r p platform to be, first and foremost, all about customize
and so now no longer are we going to a client with a set, a r, p pitch book saying this is a european. Instead, we're having you know two way, conversations with our clients figuring out what are their problems, what are their issues and then we're tailoring a european strategies to meet their needs. As I say person, this is absolutely powerful and it's the best thing for our clients, because I just really love looking at this stuff. Every day It's in the most amazing space. We learn each month each quarter. We find some new point of detail which will allow us to make the strategy better, and so we get to keep making our strategies
keep refining and improving them and it's a great privilege to get to work in that academic type, enterprise within a commercial environment too great environmental, so how'd you get interested in this part of the industry to begin with, started in smart meter. Before was premier came a thing. I was lucky in two thousand and four to work, one of the very first smart beta startups. There was like three or four really small funds. China set up different smart beta products, tell me a lot about the space and tell me how to think about it said he didn't look out, then banking and I kept the passion for that type of approach and that type of project and I use sort of risk premium type thinking in a few places. and then I was very lucky to be part of a team that was actually contacted by one of those nordic pension funds in two thousand and twelve, and that really allow me too take the thinking that I learnt from the early days
data, but also we had a great team put together to solve those problems, and it came from that point and have a habit. You I said, here at Goldman twenty two years ago in the commodity business and I helped develop and build our common the investor business, the gene, see? I, the Goldman Sachs Commodity Index was what we were. Marketing now back and ninety seven. When I joined, I don't think there or any clients that actually had a set allocation to commodities. there was no need to have commodities in their portfolio The reason we were successful building the business was because we were marketing portfolio diversification, so now fast forward to Bout Dat. Two thousand and fifteen I've been out. the commodity business, and so nine and I've been in charge of the pension business and I'm looking around Goldman and seeing what products we can be offering our clients- and I looking at this amazing pre amazing, a r p platform that word developing
we ve got really smart, straps working on it and they're coming out with these really smart innovative products. But There was no marketing or distribution game plan. So what I? it. Is I put a business plan together Bay Stone? My dear sir, I experience and what I found or some remarkable similarities, while in a wet one, has an asteroid allocation, naturally to alternative risk premium. No one needs to buy it, and the best marketing pitch is actually portfolio diversification Oh, I pitched his head a vast or using exactly so. You know I pitched at this head of distribution, Two senior leaders- and here I am and having you know I just as much fun marketing a therapy as I used to in the mighty space. So the finish off, the suburbs in one minute or lass. Let's answer the central question: the absurd. What is altered?
risk premium and why our investors excited about it. Ultimately, they gone. of all investors is to generate higher returns or the long run, and the key to doing that is portfolio diversification. Traditionally they got portfolio diversification by diversifying their traditional assets. Today they have the ability to diversify via risk premium strategies, a therapy a european steeped in academia. There are more risk factors than there are asset classes. There is a lot of correlation amongst the various alternative risk premium strategies and together powerful, diversify, add them to your portfolio, increase, returns, lower volatility, awesome Tom you Arctic, establishes that are now those pretty good morning. Learning I would say, is it's not a panacea? doesn't make money every year you have badges and good, but
there really powerful talk at what I'd I'd say to invest as it is not perfect, it went so border problems. I'm sorry! It's not that simple, but it's too powerful not to be part of your talk. It ok! Well Tom and Heather. Thank you so much for joining us today. I learned a lot, very my brain. I wasn't a lot of first aid. That concludes Sat beside of exchange. The Goldman Sachs thanks for Listening- and we hope you joyous again next time this spot gases recorded on May twenty third, two thousand nineteen, all price references and market forecasts correspond to the date of this recording this pod cash should not be copied, distributed, published or reproduced in whole or in part. The information contained in this package does not constitute research or recommendation from any Goldman Sachs Entity to the listener. Neither Goldman Sachs nor any of its affiliates makes any represented.
Or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the statements or any information contained in this podcast, and any liability, therefore, including in respect of direct indirect or consequential loss or damage, is expressly disclaimed. The views expressed in this podcast, or not necessarily those of Goldman Sachs and Goldman Sachs is not providing any financial, economic, legal, accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. In addition, the receipt of this podcast by any listener is not to be taken as constituting the giving of investment advice by Goldman Sachs too. That listener, nor to constitute such person. A client of any Goldman Sachs Entity
Transcript generated on 2021-09-20.