Ok, openness. Ninety two conscientiousness sixty three native emotionally twenty five extra version. Fifty eight, agreeableness, maintain hello, and welcome to the five hundred and thirty eight politics podcast. My name is Galen Druke and we're here to talk about another candidate, declaring that she's exploring a run for president before we get started on our podcast earlier this week there was some interest in AC in fact to announce whenever a new person enters the presidential race. So you ask I deliver, ladies and gentlemen, our twenty twenty announcement music here it is, and with that

New York. Senator Kirsten Jellyband is running for president and here with me to talk about the theory of why jailer brand could be the twenty, when he democratic nominee or not are editor in chief mate silver has a gown, a ceiling, senior politics. Writer Clementine has grown high and judging by the managing editor mica current, hey, Mica has again thanks for having me so can agree I'm a ring, I'm agreeable likeable for contacts we just took a personality tat. I wouldn't worry and personalities as we display them on the spot. Cast listeners. Please go to five. Thirty. Eight that calm, take their personalities, would love to know how you compare to to our office, which tend to be creative, but not very agreeable. Open and disagreeable journalists or maker Tony's idea will make politics podcast listener group,

the personality past and we'll find out of the positive and negative qualities of our listen yeah. Exactly so anyhow, That's not what we're here to talk about we're here to talk about Jellyband. She made her announcement. The weight show with Stephen Colbert Tuesday night. So, let's begin by listening to a bit of what she said, this as on the longer side, but it's good background for understanding what her pitch is. I'm going to run for president eight states. Because as a young mom, I'm gonna fight for other people's kids as hard as I would fight for my own, Which is why I believe that health care should be a right and not a privilege Recent, better public schools for our kids. Can you shouldn't matter what block you grow up

and I believe that anybody who wants to work hard enough should be able to get whatever job training they need to earn their way into the middle class. But you are never going to accomplish any of these things. If you don't take on the systems of power that make all of that impossible, which is taking on additional racism is taking on the corruption and greed and Washington, taking on the national interest that right legislation in the dead of night or through we're going to get into that area for why shall win or lose the democratic nomination, but just listening to that clear? What do you make of her announcement last night will face? I think, interesting the venue that she chose. The wage structure with Stephen Colbert is a I would say, I mean people go on there, sometimes to tease things they're. Gonna do politically, but you know it's too comedic venue so's come interesting, but

I think that the idea was it reaches a large audience. It gets big play in the days after because, probably with people who skew Liberal, because Colbert has come taken on this mantle of Trump secure, and I think that's important for her to get high profile coverage because she isn't that well known outside the political sphere, and I think that's going to be a big thing for her. In the coming days and months. Whatever it is, is the kind of introduce herself in, and we can talk about this more in depth, but she's introducing herself as a mother as a candidate that kind of that sort of her, play it in a democratic electorate that is filled with a lot of newly politically debated women. I mean here in New York is about better known. She is one of our centres, the law. Time. One of my sanders ran for president. That was it Illinois, and President Obama

became what a track record neighbour would like why? What is happening here? You claiming credit for- or you predict I've really rather wary of the case for tourist and children. But let's talk about you, she situated in the field in terms of ideology and background before we, you know, make a pathway for her yeah Clear has a really good piece on this up on the site right now, which you can read for four more detail here, but I don't think she's all that differentiated from the other candidates. In terms of ideology, she holds pretty standard, liberal positions on most issues for fur member, the Democratic Party. Where she is trying to differentiate. Herself is in really emphasising and leaning in to women's issues and matters of equality, equity, and that kind of her theory of the case is

clear out a quote in in her prison jellybean, which I think sum this up clear right, yes from Japan campaign officials at the lesson of twenty teen is that the future, the democratic democratic parties with women and in what they meant by that is the mid term. Elections saw stork number of women elected. Congress. Most of us were democratic women, almost sixty percent of the democratic, primarily there it is women, and I think what s interesting about, Gilbert you're right mica, she is a pretty. You know run of the mill Senate, liberal fur, twenty eighteen, of course, she's change your political positions quite starkly over the past decade, which we can talk about till she served and in an upstate district, but I think what you elaborate knows will be her way to differentiate herself is you know it was no mistakes that she position yourself as a young man

I regularly used arrogantly several women, the in the race. She I think, is banking on the fact that she has two kids who are relatively young. I believe ten and fifty in she has, if war and is running, is kind of Thee self declared. Like every woman and at Vienna there. Their leaning into that a little bit more hard nosed going after Trump Angel this position herself and cut of the exact opposite way, which is an interesting but of leaning into the feminine d right or the or the societal perception of them Andy, where she's kind of saying this is gonna, be a positive campaign, this is a campaign about I'm uh. You know advocate as a mother for your children right it's. It has a different tonality to it already, and I think that is very much on purpose and I think it also

she sees herself as being able to win some of those. Perhaps disaffected White college educated women. He rose to be republican in part because she knew she used to represent a pretty republican district on the park out earlier this week. We discussed the five different constituencies within the Democratic Party that I say that's swell nominee would have to piece together. Those were Millennials party, loyalists the laughed African Americans and hispanic voters which pieces of the Democratic Party does she peace the other. In order to be successful. We just gave her the same sport for all groups and in the morning I could be good. Is it means you have upside potential with all groups? On the other hand, she had a reputation when she served from upstate New Yorkers being pretty moderate, she was pro second Emmett and so forth. Right, and then became a sadder replaced. I think Hillary Clinton right So I don't know I mean there's some creek like oh well, you know shift to policies what maybe

showed a few representing a moderate district in upstate New York versus the our state, which offices waited whipping your city than are more liberal and was just or county and so forth, and so you know I'm not sure that This is really holds, but then this past year she was extremely anti tromp. She had the the lowest prompt agreement, score of any Santer and our database. It almost seemed at times like she went out of her way to oppose things that weren't terribly controversial, so she could be the most anti center and demonstrate how antitrust she is potentially the same time. She has a reputation for she would say, because I am I'm from New York, it's whatever our constituencies as being like Wall Street. Friendly or at least adjacent to Wall Street friendliness. You know, I think her husband's, like a british, like investment, anchor or not. Investment banker sees inherited a venture capital set of venture capital firm and style, as is there are exceptions you can see her in hearings and stuff becoming more combative. Riper style is a little bit more genial, it's kind of like it.

Amalgam in some ways of like four or five different candidates: antipathy. When you have a can it like that, is someone who is kind of like a front runner because they can afford to be all things to all people, because you have a lot of institutional support right, and so it's it's a weird motif have, if you're not a front runner, because then how do you have angles, help you to differ take yourself and become a a front. Runner right a little bit like the underwear nomes thinking right. We're like ok, We know that there is no need to collect underwear, support in step to question question mark which mark so free profit right, we're like if somehow she said Five less other candidates there, I think, should become a strong. Right and I think she's, like the Anti Bernier similar Bernie is like appealing to like one nearby and a half groups. You know it's also in New York. She has a big gender split in her approval ratings. She has

strong upriver ratings with african american and hispanic voters right and some a little bit where You know about me personally and what kind of the way most people in the press or are White eyes right into their like I'll, get the appeal jeweller Branwell, you know you're, actually, a minority of a democratic, democratic, like that. You know using using our coalition old. You of the party. It is hard to see you know one of the night and they read about this and peace. We do not have a women corner of the park, right, because women are a majority of the party in their majority most of these groups and therefore it is hard to see how where she gets a toehold whole to start building that, but that's only according to like a building coalitions view of the primary. If the primary unfolds differently, you know she's among the most anti tromp as night said she does really well among women. As night said,

Those are two pretty good calling yeah I mean if we're going back to needs five centres of power and the Democratic Party to me. Ok, she has to win party wireless. Then you know her voting record suggest she's trying to court the left, but she also, as you know, like a former security, lawyer and she's, a senator from New York, which means- and you know, she's- it's already been reported the cheese fundraising denoted or putting in fundraising calls to Wall Street. So, although she said you know, I'm not gonna take pack money which I think is gonna, be a priest standard line and the Democratic Party. So you know it's a little if he to me on whether or not the left buys into that. I think Oh any ulcers like a decent ploy there. She is obviously aware of the fact that she is a white woman who is speak. You know who needs to whose who

ran originally in oh, pretty white district, and and is aware that she needs to build some credibility with the black market. So, it is kind of I mean I tend to think its party, loyalists, plus millennials plus customer question- are crushed mark underwear, nomes, that's enjoyed the matter, but who knows? One thought I have a little bit Is she running in the wrong here because a message Hey, I'm positive and solutions oriented I'm a consensus builder, but I am also like on the forefront of women shoes and women are fifty two percent of the overall accurate and six percent of the democratic electorate. I mean That feel like a bit of a message you might have. If you had had a moderate popular to term republican President now you kind of ready to turn the page with something newer, pressure and not terribly contentious and someone kind of agreeable, I guess to use that term

but you know she's pulling at one or two percent or something she is young and could wait long potentially, if you're, a sad or from New York, is potentially a very powerful position. The one thing out, NATO's, I think on policy, jailer brands right now for running this year is a pretty clear and coherent and self evident in that on policy. In terms of her positions and her emphasis, she is creating a really good content as with tromp, I think what you were saying, though it is more about how she's campaigning totally in that Democrats might want, moreover, of fighting tone and I think her campaigns response to that might be. Maybe that's what the democratic Democrats want, or maybe You know she can. She can appeal to that base of women, but then also not have marked herself out as like the angry Trump card

puncher and that will make our attract attractive for the general election. This goes back why are we writing all these like? How could so? And so, when the twenty twenty democratic primary? It's because there are so many theories of the case of like how you go about it that I think the idea of running on the almost more positive? campaign. Vibe is like an inch, is an interesting one and it might very well might not be the winning streak yeah. It's because you know Warren has obviously taken the opposite tat, which is kind of counter punching counter punching with also being backed up by. I am the pure progressive were org, kind of thing, but need Europe or your theory is Democrats, are gonna want more of a fighter of fighting tone. I should say I mean it. I was very bear Ashine Ivan ADI Canada.

Do you know, I'm just saying like why now right? What's the urgency for her candidacy now and has a tied to like Trump, but I think she too big year in twenty seventeen now this might take us into the Frank in conversation, but I mean I There was one kind of memorable magazine headline the called her the senator from me to an obviously she you know: she's she's real, History is true reform, military, sexual assault policies and the fact that she came out so hard against Frank in she was the first democratic centre. Publicly coffers. Resignation obviously is made out of enemies in the donor class, but may I thought maybe it'll give her some grist with grassroots people. You dont know, but it's a bet it's maybe she feels that momentum from if this is the way this is the year of the woman. If this is the aim of the women,

marches started a political movement. Then she might figure. This is the best momentum I'm gonna get you may maybe I'm coming across more harshly than I that does not seem right to me. If she's, the ME to Canada now seems like a perfect moment, sort, a robber on her strength is probably we're saying that she holds the record in New York state for she, the biggest win for a state right, candid and re up. Forms, Cuomo and Clint, an Hillary Clinton and twenty six teens who, as you know in former and twenty eighteen, sixteen, so maybe what talk about some of the challenges that shall run into me. I thought it was kind of interesting that you raided her the same on all of the different five corners of the party. Including the left which may be gets her trumped score, but it seemed like a lot of the backlash that came off of her calling for Africans. Resignation came from a more left, leaning, wider male part of the party. Do you think that creates challenges for her?

Do you think those are over common among other voter. I, the Frankenstein came from the laughter think it came from establishment momentarily sunny from Soros grows, white, Antonia in people, but I am I agree with that, but I also think there was some like Bernie Brow element, maybe a little bit yeah. I saw reporting and political basically said the donor classes not happy with her, but you also saw a backlash from what I perceived to be the more Bernie Sanders. Aligned left the thing Frank and story is to go a little anecdotal in. I would contrast this against the Elizabeth Warren DNA story where, if you're just having conversations with rank and file democratic friends, earth were not in media. You know almost verily, they would say. Our dna thing with was born, and now the conversation about words will be different. She declared and the page has been turned at least partially, I'm sure that will come back again right. You know, I'm not sure

still a brand killed, L, Frank and thing is as well spread, a real world as it is among media, slash, donor, slash, elite circles right in part, because it's like not really that logical. Stop that logical, because number one, a lot of Democrats are concerned about Santer Shoe, allegedly grope p because a lot of Democrats were calling for Frankenstein resignation because job is one of the ones who is able to be more vocal about. Instead, we kind of passiveaggressive, because by the way at a moment when there is a race special action in Alabama, where you had re more, who is accused of things at our let's be clear. Two or three orders of magnitude were somewhat frank, was accused, but still a moment where not being hypocritical on those issues might seem important and by the way, Tina Smith, the Santer who replaced african one, pretty easily last November

and so I didn't really costs democrats anything. And so it's like it's like a bit illogical, especially my party is trying to become more sees me. But, like woke, unlike me, two issues and so I do wonder if it's like a vocal but well connected to like now. Planet Cricky story to cover, because on the one hand, its apparent conversation about her any man, I've gotten a conversation. Post, something more widespread and an hour. You know I find it a quickie story to cover, because on the one hand, it's a private conversation about her and had a gardener conversation on Twitter last night within Europe, report. I lucky thing I'll look now: Africanist trending on Twitter and I'm saying well If a New York Times writes about Franklin in the context of Gillibrand in the Washington Post, Athenian, five hundred and thirty eight. Those were pretty widely read among those elite circles to right, then that's going to be a part of the time but is that we are organic or is it like? A at the very least four for the run on sentence here right at the very least, I that store should be treated as something which is relevant, but, like me it could be turned around to be a positive right.

I think this cut a little bit too, so it cuts to the changing fundraising models in the Democratic Party as well. So I thought right now for a while got party is kind of a kill. Your idols moment, as is America right so all the narrative is. Do you know burn the which that killed, L, Frank and career to a certain extent from Us obviously powerful group of donors, I think, the your covered storyline is the potential now this might not be true, but it's the potential she is able to generate more small dollars online by eating a person who very publicly killed an idle- and you know like Manhattan donors are generally probably older and like Al Franklin's, general age like he is also a cultural idle to them. So we should also like factor that in

I want him to one thing that at that, from from a few minutes ago, with Jill Brands, performance and upstate counties the one thing that I am interested to see as her campaign becomes or becomes a national one. Is we ve talked about that? podcast, in very smart people have written about the ways that twenty sixteen activated these identities and politicized, certain identities, gender and race, being the two biggest ones that I can think of any kind of wonder how that could affect some. Unlike Jellyband, who perform while in conservative rural areas in the past. But I kind of him. We have to see if her national perception is different, because people will see white wealthy woman from New York? Oh how now right, think that that's gonna be an interesting dynamic to seep play out and wall. You know put this in the pieces, we have the data on how she's performed laterally, but I'm so curious to see if that gender

identity activates, for voters in a particularly in Ireland Board, maybe her appeal, sticks and and and I'm totally wrong by future, something to think about with her I mean a parallel. Is that why upon a time in the two thousand. A primary Hillary Clinton did well in western Pennsylvania. Lemon shadows and the other was the blue collar candidate and there never. So. I think that a target point that the frame the primary we'll make. It will make a big difference in terms of how these candidates are perceived, but also like someone made this point earlier, you know this is the first time we're gonna have more than one woman running for did your party nomination. More than one really serious high profile female candidate and so it'll be super interesting to see.

Essentially how sort of success in the in the country reacted to different women run it. You know. Gilbert Clare was anus, but I wonder if jailer brands Empress, eyes herself identity as a mom goes over There are then, for example, the way Warren is is putting out her, File or what Harris might do it just can be super interesting to see color help, yeah- and by the way I mean I, I think people public at this, but I'm in the other thing with the way these candidates frame, their campaigns is also like people. People have personalities, including politician,

and so like Gibran, I think, does probably identify strongly as being a mother and like so that's kind of the thing that comes naturally are. Obviously I think we are. We are pointing out like its advantageous to her first for certain waited to to play the mother part, but I also think it something that probably come naturally to her. I think with Warren. You know, like the she comes from acted with with a lot of these issues about like she's, a bankruptcy expert for so many years, like I think, comes with a little bit more like this activist edge to her politics, so it is really edge and and the we pay more attention, I think, to the way

is it that women candidates kind of navigate these perception problems, which is not to say that male candidates don't have that? I mean you know no, but it's but its toll. It's a different review, their navigating for women, so it's like in the total abstract. I would say I would agree with what may hinted our earlier, which is that, in my mind, it seems like Democrats will want, like the most anti tromp fighter available like a fighting personality, but I dont know if that's true fur, for the women running where maybe Jack, brand if she has kind of a more agreeable persona. Maybe that goes down better with sexist loaders, their leghorns more my counterpart

later and warns team. I'm sure knows that she's, just not gonna appeal to a certain set of people and their already kind of discounting those people, whereas I think Gillette, brands. Theory. The case is a little bit more. Couldn't you see me as your general election candidate? Let go of appealing to people and its interesting to watch that it's interesting, that you said on like a tonal level right because she does have the lowest trump score, but also in that conversation with Colbert, she was like I'm by partisan I've, even sponsored legislation with TED crews. So, apart from the tunnel conversation, is there for bi partisanship within the democratic primary electorate. Right now I mean less than their once was only look one of it. One of the consequences of Democrats being happy with their two thousand eighteen. Is there not irrationally but like they're, pretty confident in their ability to be Trump. I would think so. They don't feel like they need to be by partisan

I mean. If you look at poles. Democrats are usually more probate. Parson then Republicans, remember Obama actually kind of one I met, you know and was in crisis. We need solutions from both sides right, I think in part, because of other things have changed since then. I fear people Democrats are less willing to compromise. I think that they get the short end of the stick when they try to bargain with Republicans proposer, intransigent right and I think The paradigm now is like ok, let's blow, then we have the house somehow in the Senate, which, frankly, is probably harder for Democrats in the presidency. It another, conversely, gave another show right, but they're like let's boots in him, pass Medicare for all and make port go in DC states and them with better Ginsberg can can retire right and we appoint someone new and then you know just kind of blitzkrieg and then and then, whatever than yeah, probably get our butts kick twenty twenty two or whatever it is, that's the nature of things and I don't know gets more, the more paradigm. Really you, I think it trumpet

office, a man and then get the stuff. It turn to like turntables around right and we have this groundswell. Support behind us you know, so I don't think so by partisan pitch works is as well right, could be that, like you know again, it's like there is different phase almost if Trump were really popular Then people say all we have to move toward the center and be more by partisan right You were like really really really unpopular. I know he's unpopular now, but let's say he was at a third percent approval rating and he was somehow running for reelection anyway, just kind of clay who's gonna lose, and you might almost be like our in a crisis we have to like start building a strike. Majority for a future in life- and you might also CMU saw a little bit of that kind of magnanimous tone from Obama in two thousand eight minutes He was gonna win kind. For sure men on an, although there were mounted on their campaign, were kind of it

between zone, we're like Trump feels like very beautiful they now, but Democrats also can't take him for granted in so anyway. I think that that I psychologically, Two like that a person, message, Could we not resonating very well in the in the primary? Why do we think trumps? Very beautiful? I mean it like that. He's. Very. I guess that is political. I'm curious about that big girl, like what you're you're thinking is on that, because the Democrats also have I leave the technical term is a ton of candidates. Who could cannibalize each other? I mean because right now, everyone's being very happy lovey dovey, but what? If they you no kind of get? What? If it turns little nasty and that's good for Trump, we never see them on X. Factor is the trump, but I'm curious by your thinking right now, trumps appropriating as fourteen or fifteen points underwater. When we went from speed, a bull is because Hey need something to change between now and twenty twenty. He needs the way to become more popular swing. Voters. And or he needs the economy.

Improving the com is already very good sites like pretty hard right but, like you know, he's not popular and it's a kind of a pretty corky set of circumstances for him when, despite also frankly, nothing very popular in twenty sixteen, it took a candy Britain who was nearly as unpopular ass. He was it took the fact that among voters who dislike both candidates, What is also went for trump because you're, like wine, I take a chance and it took him when you electoral college, spite losing the popular vote and he needed all three of those things to occur. And I don't know- maybe you'll get one. Maybe you get too but, like I don't know, I'm is as a whole other conversation again, but like the fact he has come out of this mid term catering to the article caught the right most but the most insurgent part of the public and base sit down? wall and threatening an emergency declaration does not speak fell to his ability to win to run them rational campaign to

twice a chance of getting reelected again We can have a very, very long debate about like we are generally peg trumps odds. You know if you had to to give an answer. It say in the neighborhood if he runs for me I'll, have it in the neighbourhood of even so safe fright. So he's beat abolishing around Europe debatable in the neighbourhood of and a guy, and I am sure that we will have this conversation again done, but to rap on Kirsten job and because that is this conversation is about what we see as our main competition and will end on that in this wide field of life. Using cat said Martin, your garage eighty answer from might well like listen. Let's must be real, realistic women. Women, like people, will just group women together women candidates, but I think. Actually she has a decent amount in common with Harris

as far as I think stuff in their professional history, career history could give them trouble. Harris has the prosecutor thing in her her back on which makes her like a little more unattractive to people on the left or a club which It is a bitter I'm. A club a chart has now to her left, but I think there is like statistically no one knows how much about any club which are an outside of New York New I buy while Bulgaria, because there did you regional. I think a bare both conflict be the happy warrior. Yeah, that's a good way to put their vulnerable. Pretty establishment in the past and have run far to the left over the past two years. Yeah look. What do you got set Booker? Why closure night he likes talking about her they're, both their both women, they're both running. Unlike the mom thing a little bit, I may, I think they both kind of island western Ma Ma Am I.

Japan is one of people that implicitly is making intellect ability. Argument right. She sank, I am a were allowed to archaeological. Can it's good looking, so beta Orourke. You know. It is widely known as long as we refer to port generous man like bitter, Rourke she's, a good looking candidate he has one both in fairly conservative district in a very liberal stay right and if it could be saying like I can this money and I'm someone who, who is electable competent low risk alternative. Yet on. Can I be an asshole and ask you to explain why why we had to mention the good looking thing? Let's, let's outlets act size it ignoble. If we're gonna talk about. I think the real answer is because the country, a sexist, probably wouldn't vote for lesser The woman this well put in I mean a Cassio Cortez is found attractive by many people. She is also the subject of a lot of vitriol, as was said, a pale and another person of peoples. I was very good

so I guess I'll say as Helen of Troy might tell you being a good, Looking woman in public life cuts both ways guys anyway, I don't like eyes, I seriously don't know the cumbersome but like she's running on kind of agreeable, Yes, now that, like the sword of but she's, so like really hitting cultural? He liberal position because speak sweetly. Carry a big stick right vote, carry a big trump vote thing. I know I know what you mean. I just want you to open up the amount, The candidates will that among them she might be among the more likely to triangulate and flip flop a little bit in the general election. Again, I can make an argument that, like flopping, is perfectly appropriate and even in a healthy and representative government and that she has done in the past what she has like. She carefully calibrated her message, your audience and away it's like quite The old in some ways, although I think it's also a bit gender-

The notion of like opportunistic is a word. You hear a lot about her and I wonder about that. Why thing that? Little bit, I learned that maybe somebody we didn't talk as much about, but how that letter, very easily see. Let's say what we used to call the burning eyebrows, taking Gillette Brands record and saying all of those things at nature said: she's, opportunistic, blah blah. You know her supporters would say she had a let's. Their rather convenient timewise change of heart. When she went from Represent the conservative upstate district to realize? down state in New York. She had a ton of she'd, basically like a multi ethnic progressive coalition and need to make nice of them. She separating conservative stances on immigration, but I think that that that hurt her progressive allies now would say well, isn't she saw shoes exposed people. She saw the light of Obama. But I

very easily, see that record being weapon Ized against her in a cheat her two thousand and six to two thousand nine years where she was in public office, yeah or two, then seventy nine it'll be innocent. Rosea voters treat a woman with a kind of history differently because they have accepted the you know. What was the edges? Sketch version Mitt Romney historically ray I mean we ve, had plenty of from a ramp. Hers is at an end like that's. The thing is, maybe we're I think it is no use very noteworthy to talk about her record flip. Also. Maybe we are in this sort of posts. Maybe priority if well know. Maybe politics has change so much that yet people are kind of like well there's been a lot cultural evolution in American the past couple of years. I've talk to people who say: there's been a lot bad stuff, it's been happening the past few years. You know violent protests,

please shootings, please shootings! You know for people who are against tramp tramp immigration, stuff and, while all those bad, happen. There's been like us. There's a silver lining to it in the people are exposed to more things seem to make the argument that, like white, and like yours, bran, have been exposed to more things that say her downstairs. Coalition of minorities, see as part of our everyday life, no it's like this really slippery think well and every single day, whose now supporting Medicare for all doesn't use, allocate money on that issue, because I wasn't even talking point whenever I think of a flip flopping. I always think of Terry Grosses interview with Hillary Clinton, where My grandfather was a dog with the bone, who would not let go where she several times called What I do remember exactly how she phrase, but she was like you used to support, not support gay marriage. Why? Why do you have such a quick change of heart plan? Gives the rope politician answer and tear gas goes, but why

why'd, you change it and it was the one time are. You saw like couldn't We got riled by it, but it was quite was a great interview question because it kind of exposed, like this sore point but that's telling, but I dont growth. I think there is a gender thing going on here, where every politician has changed their stance on MIKE every issue. Let's exaggeration, but it was a thing for Clinton. We get leave the country just elected President Tromp, who literally changed on every position over the course of his lifetime and over the course of the camp, I just don't think he's always hamburger. That is true. It is pro Hamburg, isn't a hamburger met. Many many rights are a kind of sir I've had a credit Mcdonald ever since that I'm swine with that, I'm so everyone's hungry. So I think this is the time to wrap the progress that was

largely about he's in jail brand, but veered into various other directions. While we're just open agreeable people, maybe Joe Biden is her biggest competition like that we may, we should do a podcast, that's just about like, internet seen rivalries primaries this, maybe for later date, all right, that's Arap, may read you some! how you got a hamburger soon. Thank you, Claire. Thank you thanks mega. Thank you thanks. My name is given Tony Chow is in the control room. You can get in touch my emailing us at pod concept, five, thirty, eight dot com. You can also, of course, treated us with any questions or comments. If you're, a friend of the show, leave us a rating or review in the Apple pie cast store when leave a rating and helps our rankings, which helps others discover the show or just tell someone about us thanks again for listening, and we will see you soon her.