Knew her white cat freaking out upwards escort her from the premises Oh and welcome to this inauguration edition of the five thirty eight politics podcast, I'm Galen droop Joe Biden and Comma Harris are officially president and vice president of the United States. Calmly. Harris is of course, the first woman and women of color to be vice. President Joe Biden is the oldest person to ever take the oath of office as President the theme of violence,

your speech was largely unity. He said quote. We must end this on civil war that pits red against blue, and I quote without unity, there is no peace, only bitterness and fury, there's a lot of talk about tradition and democracy and mentions of the attack on the capital that took place exactly where they were all standing just two weeks ago in violence. First, we as President he's up there's no time to waste and that he's heading two, the oval office. You reportedly plans to take seventeen executive actions on his first day in office, so today we're going to discuss the messages that the New Biden Administration sent regulation and what the beginning of the binding presidency is going to look like an cured me to do. It is editor in Chief need silver. He ate hey Galen, also hear us is sooner politics rider, Perry, Big Junior, hey Perry, hygiene and five thirty contributor and political science, professor at Marquette University Julia, as our heads

thanks for having me thanks for being here and, of course, Julia. Your focus is the presidency so migration day is a big day in your field of study, and I have a pretty basic question for you, but maybe we'll help set the scene for everything we're going to discuss, which is this in the middle of the pandemic and all the security concerns. There are some questions about whether or not they should even hold this inauguration on the steps of the capital. What is the point of having an inauguration? This big symbol what event that symbolizes the transfer of power? And so I think a big part of this is to situate the new administration in history. In the context of this, is office as an institution. It transcends any particular moment. It transcends any particular individual even as you have a transfer across individuals and often of political parties that this is part of it longer tradition, so that to me has really

into this symbol, and I really want to talk, as you said, about peaceful transfer of power and whether should even be done publicly given some of the security threats, and I think one of the responses to that was that it was really important to have this symbolic show of this kind of civic strength tat. I mentioned that a lot of what bite and actually side was about unity. There was also senator boy blunt, who is a Republican who talked about bi partisanship at the beginning of the proceedings, Biden said that unity can quote sound to some like foolish fantasy. These days show,

What was he actually trying to do with this speech? Like? Can you unify a nation through a speech Arthur specific actions behind this call to unity? Perry, so you can tell us in the run up, even in the run up to the speech itself, he was trying to do things that were unify. You know he binds gonna settle man, a campaign on the idea that we need less partisanship, and he was he was always the democratic candidate of the primary fuel whose most sport spoke as a result of the Republicans he's talked about unity in finding common ground and being bypassed. listen throughout the campaign throughout since he wine he even talk about bi partisanship after the end of the invasion of the capital. You know in some ways we see that is through this theme, throughout a bi partisanship of unity, this morning. In this symbolic way he had Kevin Mccarthy, Mcconnell, speaker below Sea, Chuck Sumer go with him to it, the church service again to show I'm trying to bring the two parties to get

obviously Donald Trump did not go to the migration, so it goes raise the questionable Can one side unify have you doesn't really wanna unify? But I think by today, in his speech, from my count, their tin measures of the word unity in the speech. What are the most use words in the speech so again by this certainly trying to say he wants the unify the country, but I don t exactly know what he means in the sense that the Republicans the Democrats Arduous divided because of like personality views or because they don't, like you know, help you to the dresses. There are like real, a fundamental differences in values in political ideology in policy perspective and a net since he both gave a speech about you, DE, but also laid out a lot of priorities in terms of policy that I think more line of a thing with Democrats them Republicans. So those it is. A question is like: how do you have a unit

He added he almost eternity was their unity around goals, but not policies and there's gonna be hard to do Nay and Julia. I am interested to hear both of you way and on the likelihood of unity and what a path towards unity might actually look like, as Biden laid out in that speech, I mean, I think, everything This is really smart and Biden is kind of trying to play. Both sides of the both sides coin. If you will write rather one hand, he has tried to draw some sanctions between parties and their pretty muted relative. Frankly, what just happened in the last four years, but worked well enough for him in getting the nomination and in winning the presidency. I am, and he ll start out with an approval, reading, you don't want to get somewhere in the mid tie. Fifties was approved. During the transition was mid. Sixties right, sixty seven in the ABC Paul, but

Rene transitions easier than running all of government in the time of a pandemic, and this violent attack on the capital EL, so we'll see I think by is likely as anybody else to do as well He can in very partisan times right They are very partisan times and just like that, origin is. You know, there's not much of a margin italian, no kind of what it would look like. The summer say if people feel like both the country and the pandemic are getting back to normal right. If both democracy part and, like the pandemic part feel like there's healing and economy then we'll see. You know I mean obviously some people compared recent. nine eleven Bush gotta dig. seven, nine eleven, so I don't know I think, there's some upside for buying in terms of public popularity. I dont think that'll translate, though, in any universe, to Republicans falling over to pass all the kind of the minimum.

And write some about with him and stimulus, but anything more ambitiously. and the three most important rights, very ambitious package. nothing more than that, I think, is pretty unlikely. So white message gets through to the public in an environment where perhaps biting talked a lot about unity, but then also pursues an agenda that may get almost no republican support. I guess at the words that matter as far as public perception or the policy that matters, and I think there is often a kind of a disconnect between help people per? Give a policy, as is labelled and the provisions of that policy. We saw that in the affordable, correct where people you ethical visually about that, and this is not exceptional in that regard. The actual about individual pieces of it, it was pretty popular dress. People about, therefore, will correct itself. It was unpopular and I do think that some of the conversation around that back in to them

in ten around the idea that it was not bipartisan kind of FED into that? In a way, I think most people don't really care about process they care about, they care outcome, but the way they understand that outcome is is shaped by what's set about it, and so I think that's actually the the thing that bite and sort of needs to overcome this, not fundamental disagreement but to colonel, try and shape the frames that come out of that disagreement. If that makes any sense Rights are in the sense of he may be pursuing a policy that is popular, say, affecting dollar minimum wage or cash payments to Americans light in the process from here to passing that what kinds of ideas our messages get attached to those policies that shape what people think of them once they are fine

past is that kind of what you're getting at yeah. I think so I mean, I think I think it's it's complicated and partly is complicated, because I think we ve sort of gone so far off the rails. The poorest patiently experience is so rooted in in rhetoric, and that's not to say that there are real disagreements about public policy, but those disagreements become more fine, grained further up the sort of political attention scale you go near. I think that that when we're talking about like what do. What do people in the electorate perceive like? They may understand part and ship. They have some viewpoints about kind of what goes on in their life and how government effects that and then the rest is like translation as to how that how those things go together, and so I think that's it. That's a big part of it is not letting the not one the narrative get away. I know him roll their eyes. The word narrative, but I'm I'm reclaiming it. Let me ask related that I guess so you're saying I notice this Baden illiterate up as follows. Answer those years guessing the

a revisionist, driven top down any say is in the lead sort of your aunt as opposed to polish, and maybe it isn't it isn't a municipal public. Actually, this sort of thing but a base in the democratic base are actually might give. You think you think about June and July seems pretty clear to me. The Democrats based on racial is using the republican base actually are different on the ground. nice not just in the fox using the Fox NEWS, the Republicans, I did so on polarized the voters. Are we sure that later so I think I mean I don't know what we're ever totally sure of anything and social science, but certainly, I think that the consensus among about like the direction of polarisation has as moved in the direct of it is. It is primarily top down, and I think you see of that when the Trump era, because there are some One eighty is on policy, it's a sort of partisan label and not necessarily policy or ideology. The striving. I would also say that people in the democratic and report and base our people. I would ask

It is fairly high up the political attention ladder. Rightly folks. who are really listening to these partisan and a leak accuse they're, not making up that the bulk of the assembly of the whole country of the electorate, which should appoint a final point on all of this. Is it the case that you can unify a country I think you could divide it more. You can sort of divided more or less. I think it's always a kind of a spectrum, and you have moments where you have like a very large majority, much larger than the invited her. I think any one of us ever could expect a man, but even so then the minority is is real. Angry. So that's, I think, the closer we get to unity, but I do think that you can move along that that spectrum. I want to continue this conversation in just a minute, but first

Today's podcast is brought you by another five: thirty, eight podcast hot takedown, each Tuesday check out five. Thirty, eight sports, podcast hot takedown or the hot takes up the sports world meet the numbers that proved them right or tear them down. The crew digs into fiery opinions from the week in sports and measures them according to the end, but it's behind the issue they end each week show by diving into a rabbit whole data from the strangest fifty point games in the NBA to the ever larger gullies of the end H out, don't mess hot takedown available every Tuesday, wherever you find your pot casts. So let's talk a little bit about what bite and actually plans to do. In his first day, you are setting aside the speech which, as we have discussed here with a lot about unity, Perry what's on his list of executive

actions and goals for the start of his presidency. So I'll see this instance in two ways the first is did RON claim is gonna, be binding chief of staff parent. This memo on, like a public, really memo over the weekend in which they see as he used the phrase. There are four crises that we're going to focus on covert. Nineteen, the related economic follow from covered nineteen, the club The crisis in this instance systemic racism prices, and so I don't remember like I'm not going to say I've looked up. Blush share Obama Clinton's what they did in early but I thought it was actually fairly and usually specific. To say here are the forming those for obvious in. issues, but I think it was useful to say here are the four things were going to be working on, and if you listen to the speech you could zig, he came back to those four things. repeatedly, I think, has won the usefulness of aid. Given you started there for big things. Debts

the executive action today do hit other things of the things I ve done so far is, I think, we're gonna we're getting back into the Paris club mid agreement were rolling back the ban on people from manure, in muslim countries from coming from coming here. There's a penny proposal from the administration to make should try to unify families whose children were separated at the border. Will you make it a big already. So there's a big long list of executive actions, but a lot of them are what I would call all somewhat symbolic, stings, bitter sort of thee. Things that Paul will and things the trunk did. A lot of people don't agree with, like the the bite and books gave these seventeen. Seventy six commission, the trunk, created the sort of pre created this. You know alternative history of american sort of like did, they were released, I was getting rid of dead on day one as well as a lot of sort of symbolic executive order,

it s, sort of, like blushing, it's over the subtle, but some of the most unpopular things trump is done, particularly the Muslim Ban and getting out of the Paris climate change him. How much of this is a return to pre Tromp verses Biden, charting a path that would be significantly different from a path at Obama would take. You know like, for example, a lot of what Trump focused on in office was just I'm doing what Obama had done through executive actions and things like that so now, bite and obviously can do the same, because anything that you can do with an executive action. You can undo with an executive action, although some things maybe take more time than others, but it's easy charting. Also a new, distinct path, as you know, the Biden and Harris Administration in addition to these more symbolic like undo the trunk presidency, kind of things, in terms of these initial executive actions. These are basically return

two Obama style Palace exist, not surprising, because You can't do much through the executive acts as a somewhat limited, so the fact that their using these mainly to overturn things and is returned and Durazzo twenty. Sixteen is not surprising, but if you look at me, look at violence overall agenda and rhetoric, all indications are protected gonna be a more populist on economics to the left of not not in this, not brace Anders lovers me left and World Bhamo was on economics, and I think, unlike racial issues, is gonna, be to the left of where a bomb was on racial issues, and I think this because of cuban nineteen kind of expose alot of deeper problems and the economy and covered, as well as the June and July exposed insulin amplifies the racial challenges in the country's Wales. I think you did. He look like what binds on staff has been saying. There has been much more explicit talk about fixing the economy

regular people and addressing racism, like obama- never would have said one of my first or things of the talk about Rachel out. There would never happen variety of police, all reasons, and also just do you know where the country was at that point politically, like by re any sort of a modest candidate. But if you look at this one point: nine trillion, dollar economic, stimulus proposal and how he talked about it when he was busy like deficits, blood is all, but he said which Obama again never would have said like these, that the party is move left in Biden is not were burning and Warren Arbed Binding is moved left. There is good news, but they're gonna try to do a more left. Administrate and then into doesn't sexy. Yeah me. One thing that makes binding oddly effective is like use portrayed as a moderate. I think it's probably a park is an older white dude bright. It doesn't have a funny accented. Anything rights is not a serious economic goes on and he doesn't this quite progressive.

agenda. I know that Biden himself has personally, like super duper progressive. I think he just kind of it's a rumour, they well delegates authority and wines up reflecting kind of that gets. Its democratic party is agenda, which is a pretty liberal party with that said like how much of that kind of gets through Congress, worse, executive order- I mean I mean we'll see but like is circle back loaded to before, and I don't know how Julie would feel about like when you say nearer that I want to put the word median air in front of it. I know how she feel about that right. It felt like in two thousand and nine. The media was really eager for this. Obama Obviously, the rises covered and mostly fairly glowing, although complicated term is right, I think they're really Ray to see that kind of comment fall back to earth a list the current. Sometimes it was a neat little cricket, Republicans pulled off but hey. If we are opposing the signal, For example, the by definition its partisan and I'll get portrayed as person

the press and then you ll actually become less pop or in a kind of work, I mean it feels like that trick might be harder to pull off this time. Around why's that because people are aware of what happened twelve years ago: and because there is a little bit less kind of both sides to them in the media, because coordinated stimulus packages are quite popular in some ways like. has the luxury of not having. Large enough majority to do really unpopular things so, Oh, you know he can tell different constituency is like we're not getting a green new deal through Joe Mansion right. We're not getting probably not getting DC statehood other that's when you could think about Airport Rica's statehood might be interesting, but he has more constraints on how to tackle the work with constraints combating the Obama years, it's partly that that the Obama administration lost control, the narrative with the media,

but it also that there were that this was a creature of their political opponents and when I sort of like links on us back to the speech and to the question of unity, if I Can we really struck me in the speech was bite in reference to the Emancipation proclamation, which I think probable? I mention this My blog and probably for most people like. Oh that's a thing that happened during the civil war and it was, it was a sort of moment of offering a slave, but it a very specific piece of executive action that acknowledged the limitations of the presidency, while simultaneously lake confirming that the purpose of the civil war was and slavery, which was sort of Lucy Goosey on the union side. Up until that point, I think that is probably deliberate choice by Biden or by the speechwriters to make that reference, because really does speak to a kind of a modest and limited powers

the presidency, and also even of legislation that has still have this kind of transformative potential so speaks to what unity is really a code for which is, I think, it's a code for for having our kind of broader purpose. This sort of goes back to our previous discussion about establishing common ground with republicans adding that sort of what you'll see with with biting his coat this conversation about what is the purpose of this country? What is the purpose of all of the all the legislation and executive actions that will be happening and can we at least agree on kind of abroad, umbrella of of purpose, and can we of this is our we're using this word unity can we then kind of carved out the people, who are going to act in bad faith, to try to undermine that.

That's where I think that's what he gets us into the nature of the polarization that we might see, because I'm I'm hearing us talk about all this legislation that might happen and thinking about what you know. Some of these new web representatives republican side will say what will sort of the tea party crowd a wherever that evolved into what will they what will they say and there are legitimate and real policy disagree to be had heard, they were kind of bad faith arguments based on false information and that segment of the electorate that segment of the political system has grown, and I think when you hear bite and talk about unity on you hear him talk about the new sort of historical references? It really is about finding a share of purpose and approaching it in good faith and telling

no making kind of a show that people who can't get on board with that can't be part of the conversation that Ozma then becomes a decision that more mainstream republicans have to me. So that's where I think this up together. It s like a lot of a lot of different threads, but that's my effort to pull them together. The situation that you wait out their Julia, that binding is trying to kind of excised bad faith arguments from the political environment, an environment where lies distortions. Things like that have played a very big role in public perception year for a long time now, of course, predating trump. Obviously, during the Obama administration to how do you do that? How do you change public opinion so that others, there is less interest in conspiracy theories and lies, and maybe extremism based on those titans? How do you create incentives for politicians to not

indulge those lies and distortions. I want to answer this briefly. I know you got to come with you earlier, but I've been struck by ABBA the! I have not for you to my views about this, I'm a bit uncomfortable with Twitter, taking Trump off of Twitter that Sid I have realised that a lot of sort of misinformation was coming from his feet and I sort of do looking back at the think that, oh, like I'm, not comfortable with, would obviously twitter is a private company. Uncomfortable Generally, like you know, silencing censorship, whatever you want to call that, but I do wonder if part of life, whatever Joe Biden does. I do think that part of like the culture in America, the companies the media, has to figure out like who gets a platform in and what is the line and which lies? Why nationalism, threats to violence, hinting at violence, intolerance for

religious or other minorities goes too far. In so doing. I guess what I think today, I thought them whenever Joe Biden sit, I still think you know he gave a unity speech, but I still think the most important person is the person who spoke of eight o clock and then flew from Washington Name, Donald Trump. So I It's sort of a sort of until like that, you know Woodbine does Donald Trump One, forty seven percent of the votes. He leaves a huge faction of the of the Republican Party. I still think at this point, so it's not clear to me what unity looks legs with is long is Donald Trump has a big platform and uses that two dis unify unto, maybe this unified with false information, times to amend. Maybe Trop has lost his platform by leaving the presidency and with Twitter, I dont know, but this sort of

I start from his like. I don't know the Joe Biden has much to do with unity in America. Ya think it's possible that interest in Trump fades a lot and pretty quickly. Now, creating a lot from like he's. Probably most attend commanding. or demanding right most at privacy, more attention for more people than anyone since, like you know roman emperor, something right so far. can fury. I pedestal but I want you to hear I kind of, like I'm, usually very wary of technological platform I kind of to intervene too much right, but you know, I think clearly, like it had a big effect clearly what is inciting rebellion. Hits it is crying over whatever law, no matter how far argument will draw a line? I drop pretty broken far out across that line. But yeah I mean I don't know, I think I think the notion we want to move on from tramp. I think is, and also like, look there

something to be said for novelty You and I mean there's something he said for someone new kind of get you excited, again. I can't go back to Sierra pay. And a little bit where kind of she fell out stature pretty quickly and one of the more trump like figures I think, preach that, somehow, without the kind of actual move Behind it, the kindest stick doesnt work as well. and it just to seem like Trump has felt very like neutered in these last you daisy with a sweater the realisation that he's actually going to not be present me more he's, not president, as we're taking us me more right, but he's died off more quickly than I thought in terms of kind of having a platform yeah so I studiously avoided taking any opposition on the platforms deplore forming trump to me. It's been more important that he's been present.

The United States, and so whenever he says, on these platforms, or anywhere else has survived the force of the? U S. Government, and, of course, that's that's not true anymore. I think what I think about this, or about can bite in essence, vector of of unity is again. If we think about unity, is a code word for purpose? We think about unity is a quota, for this is our consensus, and if this consensus doesn't work for you, then you don't get to be part of that kind of debate. over power. Sharing that what Essentially, what that does is, I think you know when you put the power of the presidency. Behind that in the power of the presidency is naming dish info. nation and naming not just this information, but also white nationalism. Right insurrection, all of these sorts of things, intolerance, the president. as its is naming those things and saying that just doesn't, you can't bring now into a democratic, small de democratic conversation. I think that is powerful

I think what we ve learned or less for years is a presidential communication is, is really powerful until that sort of what I'll be looking at is this kind of and bite very well position for this, because he is older, white guy people assume is very moderate and because he has his reputation of being a sort of straight talker, he doesn't use soaring rhetoric, but he is a little bit. You know talking about malarkey or whatever. If he identifies malarkey S, as the stuff that doesn't belong in in the political conversation. I do think that has some some potential impact yacht. The actually said almost exactly this in his speech today, he sighed quoth, the recent weeks and months, have taught us a painful lesson. There is truth and there are wise lies, told for power and profit, and each of us has a duty and a responsibility as citizens as Americans, and especially as leaders leaders who have pledged to honour our constitutional protection

asian to defend the truth and defeat the lives, and so there you have it he's kind of drawing the line in the sand were like you are, you know. Only fulfilling your possibility as a citizen, american or leader. If you reject these kind of bad faith arguments and lies. So, as you said, we will see if the forest, the force of his power position personality whatever can achieve that big question mark that I do want to wrap up here, because we are gonna be covering a lot of the questions and themes in the coming weeks, months and years years, Jesus I love that enthusiasm, but

It's been a long for years has been alive or you Eddie talk. Your nerves means that these are in its first Tweedy was is boring, as I expected. Thank goodness. Ok, sombre. Ass even make predictions one: does the filibuster survive the binding presidency? Yes, yes Nate Yes, Julia now I feel pressure that I should say no just so this is important, but I think I think yes, I think a lot of people have incentives, have maintained the filibuster, ok and then my second question just to bring it back to some like public opinion here, that we can check this against. Just passing popular policy make a president popular. I think this is a theatre worm up not yet passing their policy maker president. It's like it

don't be so so we don't. I guess the question is why the last time, the high profile policy, like everyone, both parties drive down the popularity of policy by opposing them? for though tax Code of Amr CARE about European Rollin popular, I mean I tend to think. If a policy is by partisan, it tens and not yet covered by the press. Very and therefore its not doesn't mean. So I yes, if there's some is, I didn't get some kind of covert bill trillion dollars and its twenty five. I've senators in forty five Republicans the House vote for it. I think that will make it more Yes, I think a parting popular policy would make him more popular. I don't This happened in those are harvested overnight. Yes, any the issues you, but I'm not sure, because

covering Guenaud gather for twenty years- and I cant remember the last major- policy that was by partisan. Maybe I'm forgive me, I guess all those what with bills were by partisan and made it makes Europe more. But what are you so? Twenty twenty had three major covered deals. There were by partisan, passed in tropical didn't go up at all and wicked. There is obviously a reason for that, but that said okay, so go back and I gotta I dont know just That's what kind of all this it is very good cause, it's very good contacts, but it is, it is ok, not to know sometimes nay Julia. Do you want to give us a yes or no and that they get everything will follow the idea I guess impulse you do. Yes, I mean in opium, like about the crazy stuff in the trump while we're like us in the past unpopular policy. Make you unpopular, I think, that's the story, I think that's true. I am I'm still a big

median motor, theorem guy right you, those kind of a popular now rather than people, voters some very complicated sense of kind of what the middle is, and I think, if you kind of, are seen as you far from that that other things being equal, which the big one fire that it can hurt you a bit that's me and I think that better there certainly a kind of school of thought that in political science I will say that approval, last. Your president's a whole lot has happened and basically nothing changed them. I also, there's an asymmetry to popular and unpopular, but that being said of all the things that happen over the course of the Obama Trump administrations, one that really do not have, it was like the passage of major and popular policy. Essentially so that could be enter

habits I will. I will go with no just to give us some variety. Presidential approval is has been incredibly static, now offered for twelve years, so I dont think much will will change it. I've just reminded me on a hatred, as I do have one final question. I have to get you guys on the record for it fine run for a second term. Can we prevent the getting your say? These are not predictions in a model to be formal, find out I'm out and you guys, but even though that we have asked the question, I guess I think yes, I just think President's run very election. I think I think yes and others a weird things eggs of his old, but I'm gonna go yes, was thinking. I mean this is kind of a the question we really be well, to run for a second term, and I want to conditional on that right, waking moment today that, like I wonder if there is a part of Joe Biden who doesn't feel like?

sure Joe Biden. Democrats will be like upset with me for saying this right by when there's a part of them that doesn't feel like this. transition and a little bit of an asterisk right, requisite happening, I wouldn't call a peaceful transition and I wouldn't call it it's probably not. Enjoy aborted transition, when you're having all these social, Sensing rules need to be very careful about. We are able to travel here, but to talk with you able to meet with bright so what? If there's a part of Joe Biden that won't feel like ok, the first couple of, arms ears and others were weird because of covert and its trump stuff and now Is it really getting to be present? he's dreamed of doing it. No I'm not about to stop right now right. I want to have a inauguration where we have a big party and weed,

have to me Bart binds not known as a big party or at all drinks rate, but like we, I love that this is how you are that this is how your rationalizing, what is most likely to be like a nurse and desire for power our is light. I didn't get a big party during my first two theories and often, as you gotta run for a second, how big, a big party in another context

he's, probably vaccinated now, so he can hang out with the other vaccinate people he is here. I believe so. This is my reaction, which is it might my head says: yes, like all the evidence that I can think of suggests that he will, but somehow, like my heart, says no like, I feel like at the things that he has said and kind of his role in the Democratic Party suggested he seeing this is a caretaker presidency and then he's probably anticipated. What you may not really know if he'll be in shape to to run for a second term in four years are wrong with that we are going to end. Our first part cast of the Biden presidency, think unique Perry and Julia your conversation. Thank you. Thank you for letting me go off about the emancipation proclamation anytime. My name is two hundred twenty charges and the virtual control room you can get in touch my emailing.

at pod, cast at five thirty, eight dot com. You can also click treated us with any questions or comments. If your fan of the show leave us a reading or review and the Apple pie cast store, Bore, tell someone about us thinks we're lessening and will cease