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Freakonomics Radio Live: “The World’s a Mess. But Oysters, They Hold it Down.”

2018-12-15 | 🔗

Celebrity chef Alex Guarnaschelli joins us to co-host an evening of delicious fact-finding: where a trillion oysters went, whether a soda tax can work, and how beer helped build an empire. Washington Post columnist Alexandra Petri is our real-time fact-checker.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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If and ninth city winery in May, we are coming to California in San Francisco on May sixteenth nurse Theatre in partnership with cake you, and in LOS Angeles on May eighteen, the S hotel, theatre partnership with case your w again for tickets, go to free economic, that calm, slash live now on with our show good Nothing, I'm Stephen Donor- and this is for economics. Radio lie tonight. Red chose pub in Europe, pity and join me as co host. Is the chef cookbook author and beloved judge on the food network show chopped? Would you please welcome Alex going to Shelly, Alex very happy to have you here like to tell everybody what we know about you so far. We know that you currently hosts the way
series fix me a plate? Yet we know that your website has a section called foraging about the food you love to forage for and that you listed their fiddle head ferns, fresh ginger and cheeseburgers. There are highly affordable, their mostly found in wooded areas where, where did the cheese breeders have to eat a lot of cheeseburgers defined the good ones, and sometimes, if your digging through grass and rocks and trees define edible things in central park? That's one type of forging the others when you either series of disappointing cheeseburgers in you have to run around in every area to find a good one and where's your favorite cheeseburger, oh, my god depends on. I mean that's like a German, I could been many different moods. I would say for me: I'm a J G melancholy Alex, so that's a little, but what we know about you want to tell us something we dont yet know about you. Certain foods make me very anxious when I see them and we have to cut them or eat them and often have to eat food on telling.
Patty, PAN Squash risotto and muscles, make me extremely anxious they make you anxious in the ivy member foreign things din and well way or another the main marriage and pretty much in every form I worked in a restaurant in Paris geese have la for almost six years, our four Daniel balloon for two and a half, and in that time, I could muscles and risotto the entire time every night every day and I just when I see the our boy arise on the shelf in the supermarket, or I see the muscles at the seafood joint I just started to which I have to leave the EU abruptly and go immediately to the ice cream Fraser and by several Alex happy to have you here tonight for tell me something I don't know, here's how it works. Guests will come on stage to tell us some interesting fact or idea or story. Given your credentials, we ask them to focused
play on food and drink you and I can them, ask them anything. We want, and at the end of the show are live audience will pick a winner. The audience will vote on these three very simple criteria. Number one did the guest tell us something we truly did not know number to. Was it worth knowing and number three? Was it demonstrable e true soda help with that demonstrable e? True part, would you play Welcome our real time fact: checker, Alexandria, P, try Alexandra is the Washington Post Communist, whose also pass champion of the O Henry PUN off Alexander. We know that you were once baptized into a cult just
because you didn't like to say no and that your father was a: U S, congressmen from Wisconsin, which explains most of the things I just mentioned. Perhaps so, what's up with you these days, Alexandra will not too much. I did just get married, which responded. I learned the origin of what tying the not is. Apparently, when, like the priest, raptors stole around your hands, you tied the not, but this is also a minister who said that a pic of helium marriage means there's one morning when you ve been a wake up and look at the other person and real. As you no longer love them and when that day comes, you have to keep being polite to them before the wedding we're like all right well, and so we will see how it goes tamper cocktails. Well, we love you Alex with both the Alex. it's time now to play. Tell me something I don't know. Would you all please welcome our first guest
Melvin ASCII. Fifty it says here that you live in New York. You Workin Governors Island, you look to be. I'm gonna put you roughly early thirties, MID Thirty's authorities that varies. Ok, all right! I'm ready sore scorn, Shelley and Alexander P. Try! What do you know that's worth, knowing that you think we don't know so before pizza unveils I was the original food that made New York City famous, but New York City on a map. You sure I know that chef, lady. Yes, I'm no idea, heckled, herring, your guests, regular hearing pretzels. Is it rather may arise, not rats, not Brussels. Is it dagger in nature? It's not that sort of universe, nature. They're everywhere there were lots of people from New Jersey, this is this is pre New Jersey early in the darkness? Is the little later? Can I ask you a leading question?
I don't know much about Delmonico owes you probably do Alex. I do in fact other dishes that we're famous that were made famous there yet I mean, for example, Delmonico stake, which is a revised famously these. where the meat almost whole right out in the street and cut the Delmonico stake for demonic us, which is just a fancy with saying, whereby sounds cool loves. So Delmonico, as I understand it, the Alaska, the first or one of the first fine dining restaurants in new york- and I assume the U S. Yes, at any rate, still too would this food have been served in a place like that? Absolutely so it's a dish This sets an ingredient. Oh yeah can be an ingredient usually served by itself in places like Delmonico. What do you mean by its a dish? What is that meaning? It's a composed dish like a lobster new burger Alaska were relay your thing. It's not that it's something that serve on its own. It's not that they would have demonic goes and you ll find dining restaurants and carts throughout the city oysters
oysters, hey. Will that makes sense now that my smart friend here says a herring? Do you have anything to do with oysters? I do so I give you a background on wasters in New York. Harbor can't say no to that Abso foreigners years ago and Europeans first arrived. The New York Harbor was totally full of oysters, so there is hundreds of thousands of acres the oysters in New York, harbor and those oysters provided habitat for all kinds of different animals and that available animal protein is what made New York City so successful. To begin with those oysters became famous, they were shipped all over. The world people came to New York City to eat the oysters and they where food for rich and poor alike- and the saying goes that oyster carts used to be as ubiquitous as hot dog cards are today: multiple absolutely oysters, though they were all New York oysters. Now they were now wealthy oysters in New York. Yours there exactly there
There are some that there's some local varieties, Iguana Bay oysters and things like that. That has the opposite of a good ring to those of, you do not live in New York. Go honest Bay is how shall we say one of the most polluted waterways in the country, but I used to be a title. Creek. Those surrender wetlands and was a the oysters, went where we just data rhythm about a hundred years. We harvested trillions and trillions voices. Arbour, remove the habitat from the harbour. You can think of oyster reefs, just like a coral reef or salt marsh or a forest. They provide the three dimensional structure for ecosystem, remove that he cut the ecosystem, offer the knees, and then there were no more This is no more are used as some sort of an oyster advocate when they are great for keeping water clean. There filters the world's a mess oysters they hold it down. The other Dounia oysters are tracked pretty well from farms, but as far as what I do, I run a nonprofit based on governors Island and we restore waster reached
your carbon. We do all that work with public school students, so we teach teenagers had a scuba dive, dry boats designer. Underwater reef infrastructure, grow oysters and do science experiments on the reseller installing throughout the harbour, a sounds very noble this primarily an environmental conservation efforts or a commercial effort. So right now it's it's illegal. The harvest, oil New York harbor the waters, not clean enough. Our effort is an education and restoration initiative, we're trying to restore the habitat. We can start having the conversation about eating the oysters as soon as we stop pouring raw sewage into the harbor. Well he's so, NIT picking. Does that mean we still put a lot of raw sewage in your harbour? It's against the law.
It's a violation of the clean Water ACT, which is now fifty years old, happy birthday, and it's the reason that we as New Yorkers are denied access to the greatest natural resource. Where we live right, the waters polluted, we can't touch it. We can eat the oysters weakening the fish because it still contaminated with human waste, which is a problem. You typically associate with developing countries, but here in the greatest city in the world, that's why we can evaluate what is your project called tell the billion oyster project, so billions sound like a lot. But you saying that there were trillions harvested yeah, he saw our billion oysters, are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what how many have you grown so far, but twenty eight million, without doubt an you're gettin. Now there are the three hundred and fifty million people, maybe in America, so everybody could have three wasters after zero grow billion. Nice What do we know about the share of Americans who have eaten, let's say an oyster in the past twelve months,
That's a great question. I have no idea. I know that New Yorkers used to average hundreds per year per capita when you shocking. I stick to your supposed. They say that first liquor, that's in the shell when you shock it out and then what it does is it refills automatically almost like you know when you take water from a cooler and it in you can then just take another cup in that second liquor as they call it. Liquor is supposed to be sweeter. What about the famous f producer? idea take a while to get there. My friend would a billion oysters do something now, whether try you and our waters, not the cleanest. Is it substantially cleaner than let's say fifty years ago? That's a great question and it actually is much cleaner, and so we think of New York Harbor as clean most of the time by EPA standards. Mobile, unfavourable most days of the year? So if it was a beach, it would be open. The problem is that every time a rains we have that same sewage problem that comes out in the harbor. So most days, the
We swim in your Garber. We train teenagers to scuba, diving, New York, Harbor and it's a safe place to do those activities unless it rains. I can't think of many things. I'd less like to do. That's. Interestingly, a big part of the work that we do is combat that sense that New York harbours a gross included place if you ve ever been to Jamaica Bay between two thousand acres national park that you can get to buy a subway and where you can see dolphins and we, birds and occasionally whales, and you see a blue fish and false albacore and all he's diving birds going after big fish that happens every day here in New York City are their real albacore false, albacore smaller there, not a food fish there, it's more of a game fish, but there stood albacore, the good guys and rectifying again through a nightclub when you're fourteen, you know the abacha has not quite there is. How do you actually grow oysters, while the process starts by collecting shells from it
restaurants, we collect shells from about eighty restaurants and broken in Manhattan and get about eight thousand pounds a shallow. We wait, but then I always use in them anymore rain. These are empty. Empty shells, billion condominiums? So exactly exactly so, we take the shells we bring them into our lab and then we grows we collect, while the oysters from around the We're bring them into the lab trick them into thinking it's spring by warming, the water up and then the way respond. They release their eggs and sperm into the water we fertilized eggs grow. The larvae get the larvae to attach on the shelves of active restaurants, grow them in the lab for a couple weeks and then put them down in restructures. I we fought rioting, Alexandra, P, try PETE Malin. Ascii here has been telling us about a project. ted. You run this project: unregulated directors, executive, director of the billion oyster projects, talks about other word, trillions, etc, etc,
first of all is lying to us tonight and, second of all, do you have anything further to add about oyster them? No checks out and you are not lying on one fun things. So we're looking up the famed aphrodisiac properties of the oyster and apparently Casanova, the eighteenth century sort of railway eight, fifty oysters every morning for breakfast like like a full level, guest on type oyster Bonanza increases. Stamina, miss piggy the other hand was not a big fan. She said it was like eating something slimy served in an ashtray, so you got some differing viewpoints on the Noble Oyster Alexandra Peter, I think and people ask you thanks so much replaying coming. Could you please welcome Christie, Ash London? Christy. It says you're you're,
science writer at five hundred and thirty eight com and the author of a book called good to go about the science of exercise recovery and that you are a ski racer who also raises heritage poultry in Colorado. This is all true fairy sexy so it sounds like you know, a lot of stuff what you have forced tonight, Chrissy so at the two thousand to Boston Marathon, there is a twenty eight year old runner. This is quite tragic. Actually, who collapse before the finnish and later died on. It just so happens that at this very raised there was a group of researchers from Harvard Medical School who were there taking physiological measurements from some of the runners, and they found that thirteen percent of the runners that day were suffering, for the same condition: what is it had? They been eating oysters from New York City? That's. Why should I didn't see anything about oysters in the paper? Dehydration,
getting warmer closer deficiency of some kind, the opposite of a deficiency, it's a surplus you're getting close. Is it a condition or is it something that they do? It is a condition they have too much as something in their bloodstream and your your book was about exercise recovery, so the titles called good to go, because that's all the things you do after exercise your good to go, but there are no heed stroke. Nothing basic like that now do they over carbo load. That's a great question, because there is a lot of people who might suggest that was the case. but now, but they did too much of something corrects and they plainly dont know they're doing don't know no eight countries having very good. I dreaded yes, they over hydro. That's it that's! Actually how Andy Warhol died. Is that re overregulation, true, that is
I would have guessed it. So people are over hydrated. Tell us more about this, please! So it's quite tragic really! So this this runner, that I was telling you about at Boston, was actually charity. Runner had been, raising money for a cause, training very hard, and you know it was getting all these messages. You have two hydrate hydrate hydrate, you have to drink so much and in fact what happened was she drank so much than her blood became too diluted the technical term for this as hypo nature, emu? It's also called water intoxication, but basically what you're doing as you drink so much. under that your blood becomes to dilute and what's really interesting as a lot of the symptoms, mimic dehydration. So this very thing that their thinking, I'm just you- I need a drink Morris. I don't become dehydrated. In fact they get these symptoms. dizziness confusion, knowledge fatigue, all these things that mimic dehydration and in fact there have been many documentation,
This is where people at marathons and other sporting events are actually made worse because they collapse of the finish line, and so they give him an ivy which is exactly the wrong thing there. She making it worse and you can go into a coma and what actually kills the person is brains while How much volume are we talking about here? How much water do you need to drink? To get help nay, trivia, basically drinking more than when your thirst, his clenched, the exact amount is gonna depend on different factors. How big you evidence Oh task amount of waters, it like drinking gardens and gown hears what some of the guidelines have been in the past. This is changing so basically the situation that were now as we have had decades of messaging for two athletes, so you need to drink into drink and at one point they had. I think I calculated in my book that, if you're drinking according to their migration standards, that someone running a three hour, a marathon which is actually quite fast, would have to drink the equivalent of like a six pack of soda that that sort of volume, which is a lot
I'm. So it's more than you would be naturally inclined to drink if you are just drinking to thirst, which is in fact what you should be doing, I'm not asking the following question, because I just like the New England Patriots, Oh, I know where this is going, but doesn't Tom Brady have some drink, gallons of water a day routine? Yes, he does. He does in fact he believes that has water drinking habit, protection from sunburn, on which, of course, is not supported by science. I have not found a scientist or doktor who will back up that claim by Tom Brady. He has the recommendations about how much peoples to drink, which are not absolutely ridiculous, but they're not necessary. There is sort of like. Let me put it to you this way. No one's telling you like Stephen, don't wait till you're, tired to sleep like by the time you're. So It's too, were here. I could have been. Our bodies are really sophisticated machines when you need more water, you become thirsty and it sort of drives you to drink, and when you drink beyond thirst,
sort of going beyond that and screwing up. All these mechanisms at your body has to keep everything and check and imbalance. What do you think about the idea that sometimes we eat because we think we're hungry, but that thirst may actually be a bigger culprit? I have yet to find any evidence that that's the case. At the same time, I think that hunger- and things like that, cultural driven to, and so it's hard to distinguish some of these things. So when there's not a physiological reason, that would say that you're feeling your experiencing hunger, that's actual thirst, but one thing that is very interesting about thirst is that have you ever been like a hiking in the desert No. Ok, that's a love for me too. I must a runner and cyclists, and I have had you. I've been out there when it's really hot and you get really really thirsty and you get that, especially if, for like a really cold glass of water and all they got a taste so good like that is the best tasting water. You will ever try?
I'm, whereas you, if you're just at home, you're sort of well hydrated drinking water is sometimes it doesn't taste that good? Well, it turns out there's a physiological reason that. There are actually receptors in your throat that are responsible for this, so it actually it's actually true that water tastes better when you're thirsty and if you're, already well hydrated in and not really in need of more water at May, in fact, not taste that good and you're you're sort of not going to be driven to like believed that its tasting so good that you wanted another leader. Let me ask you this Christie number one a lot of elite athletes make this error, because I would like to think that they're not is Tom radially. Yes, Tom Brady, easily Turkey. I am asking in the course of events. If you're, a professional or early earthly do a lot of them over hydrate. Generally, that's part number one in part. Number two is whether that sure not are there other things. You know that even the athletes do kind of quote wrong based on what you know about the signs of recovery absently. So the answer the first class,
than is generally no. So the people have died of hype. On a tree me out, you'd asked about dehydration. I have been unable to find a documented case where an athlete died of dehydration, like on the sportsman, we are in a marathon, whereas multiple people have have died of hyper nitre MIA, but most of these people are not only athletes and most of the clinical cases. You know we're summers ending up in the hospital are not elite runners. In fact, one of the reasons researchers think that is becoming more common is not just because of how this bad messaging. But also because there are more people doing marathons and to their people better doing them much slower. So if you are out there for say six hours or five hours, more men, like you have more time to drink. So interesting fact not sure about the very last world record in the mirror
but the one before that the guy who finishes at this, the world record according to these standards, so that there are some standards. It say you should weigh yourself before and after exercise, and you don't want to lose more than ex per cent of your body. Weight are your dehydrated. That's gonna hurt your performance while in his case he was like very, very dangerously dehydrated according to those rules when he set the world record, and so sort of undocumented is adaptive dehydration at it looks as though ITALY levels in particular when some is exercising very hard, that the bodies really coping with that by shutting down some of these processes, so you're you're kidneys actually have a way of making sure that migration level and your blood is at the right right level, and when you are exercising hard, a kind of notices that in such changes the things at its doing, knowing that you're not gonna, be taking it lot more water and things like that, so basically people that are exercising your competing
level or maybe a little less prone to it. But the other thing as most people and most sports are not out there, where they dont have access to water and things like it really is possible to drink to thirst and that's all you have Do some curious? If you know, when you go see a marathon, you see the big table set up with thousands of the water gas doesn't look like any one, can hydrate too much really rat case, but is there kind of movement in the marathon in community or elsewhere. To invoke this message and try to have people consume less or is it not really that, a person? I haven't seen a lot of evidence that people are trying to make people consume less water and less drinks took its very rare problem. The people are drinking so much of their doing damage themselves grey. rare, but me when you have people dying, it's probably not rare enough, you're, also speaking from Position will you think this should never happened right at me? I want you to do so. There's this message out there that says by the time you are thirsty. It's too late, which is just like you said no
it tells you by the time your sleepy ecstatically, iterated message by chance responsible. That's an interesting question. There is an incredible amount. marketing around this, and not just by spurs, shrinks companies me you can't go anywhere. These bathing water, water has a conspiracy by the water and they just want to make you p a lot. I think maybe like you had a toilet rebates, drinking water, big toilet, we're gonna have oysters again, and so this is really interesting. Alexander p. Try over hydrogen. The dangers thereof tell us what you know. Well, it seems it check out which both my mind apparently the whole thing we're like you should drink. A glass of water Nowadays, there is also no signs substantiated, it's one of those like facts like someone said at one time like decades ago and then just propagates. You know like the lifespan
like, but on the internet. No, which is good because I feel it drinking a glass of water a day- is like a lifetime commitment non regretting having guzzle down half the water bottle in front of me, but I didn't check on the Andy Warhol thing, and that is what his estates. They allege that he had been over fluid when he died so day. Yeah. I checked also on the whole Tom Brady, like does water, protect you from the sun and if you water like then the rays get refracted by forty percent or something in your uv radiation could be decreased. But, like you have to physically b water. We can put all the athletes in the New York Harbor so interesting, and thank you so much for playing just as funding has been much. Would you please welcome our next guests? It's a pair of Cynthia Graber and Nikki Twitter
I do not understand your both journalists and that you co host the Gaster POD podcast, which is about the science and history of food, which sounds fantastical well ass. Pleased with your wisdom, would you have, despite huge and x Emily Well funded opposition from the industry. There are now so to taxes in dozens of places in the world, and so our question, for you is ok. Do these soda taxes work and are they the best thing we can do somehow by your cagey freezing, I knew the answer is probably not- or at least they don't. We the way they should and could be? A double bluff were being sought ashamed of you we are to dinner, I mean they just told us. We can have water. by the end of european women are literally foolish
how we can even of a soda blows. Not the kind of food and drink show I'm through this against food and drink. What are easier position on what the soda attacks should doom stop people from drinking it in an ideal world, the soda tax is going to reduce the amount that we're drinking sugary beverages and it's going to make us healthier and hopefully, at the end of it, reduce obesity and incidences of diabetes and heart disease and other things that are associated with drinking sugary beverages will. I recently spoke with the CEO of Pepsico and she says it's:
a drink so to dispute that the sea that Pepsico has a responsibility to shareholders. I only have responsibility to truth as journalists and therefore for public radio by any chance. Ok, so I am very curious to know about soda taxes and the relatively new. I gather right and I'm really curious, because I do know a tiny bit about taxes on other goods that are considered on health. one. That's unilaterally now considered unhealthy cigarettes, and I know that taxes in that case have often worked really well, but they have to be really high taxes. So I'm curious what you can tell us about soda tax how much they are and to what degree they have worked, or not so in terms of the reduction of consumption, and they do work yes at their smaller taxes and cigarette taxes, which tend to be three to four hundred percent.
The one in Mexico is maybe about ten percent. It's not working quite as well as the one in failure that started last year. That's on average about twenty one percent, although when you get to a higher amount of soda, say two leaders, it ends up being a fifty percent tax and actually that data is just coming out. Affiliate looks like it's a fifty seven percent reduction in the amount of soda. That's been consumed. Oh so it wasn't a trick question. The answer is: if a tax is relatively high, people consume less about. Ok, if that's the case, though, or there are people who then claim that this is the kind of regressive tax that we dont lake- oh yeah, probably this year Pepsico but water and Jews to replace, sat and is now why so many soda companies, so Gung HO matter will also true people do substitutes about something reason she's a looking out. Ok, I mean this is so to tax, so great and bends. What Europe place if it turns out in Mexico, what research is saying is people replace it with?
butter, hopefully not too much what're. You know some water a decent when they thirsty only are so you're saying that you're, fine, researchers are finding that in some places the soda tax at a certain proportion will reduce consumption. But what about what people actually then care about which is nutrition and health and obesity? Let's say: ok, So this is an interesting and, as you can imagine, a little bit complicated soda taxes do reduce diabetes and heart disease. Now they don't reduce overall obesity now, but they do slow. The growth, of obesity and a future, and this is actually really important because we have about the incidence of obesity U S right now is about thirty nine percent, but it's not! slowing down Annette researcher. We spoke to recently said that two year olds today his prediction: based on the models of information that has, by the time they hit thirty five. Fifty nine percent of them will be obese. So the fact that a soda tax slows down the growth of obesity is actually really important. Let me ask you this:
what else has been shown to constrain soda consumption in additional taxes was that this is really interesting. This is new research coming out of Chile, they put a giant black octagon like a stop sign on foods like soda that too much sugar too many calories? Do an exaggerated fats visitor image much sodium foods can have multiple of these octagon lay and then what they do is say foods with these octagon labels on them. You can't have them in schools. They can advertise on tv when kids are watching the copy associated with characters. So no more Tony, the tiger this started a year ago they National data is just being analyzed and bury pumpkin. Who is nutritionists an economist researching. This says this is the only thing that is actually going to reduce obesity. He thinks
it's gonna take a couple years, but in the data he thing now is not just slowing the growth it's gonna reduced because changing the norms and what do researchers think The mechanism by which the warning or the whatever no go sign is may be more effective than taxes. While it really does, as Nicky just said it changes, the norms that changes discussions around food, it prevents the foods from being sold in schools at prudence, advertising to children. You dont have these characters and an kids are actually they did some focus groups. Kids are actually saying to their parents, don't buy the foods with the warning labels and one girl. He quoted said to her mom You know I mean solid as a snack instead, what kids these days to land, but its word, you troll kid that ever s foresail about working so well that other countries are queuing up to do this. So, Canada, Israel, Peru Cell and there, that accompanies eyes, so upset about it that they are trying to view
You go into our international trade agreements that companies aren't allowed to use these kinds of labels if they want to be in the agreement. So you can tell US king. By how hard the companies are fighting. My dilemma is that you shoulda yeah. I do I'm sorry it's designed for you d like it. I tell you. I think this is true. I think a really ice cold coke study, a Mexican cope with sugar, that's out of fear, fridge, that's ice, cold, when you have a hang over and you crack that sucker open and you guzzle that till you can't breathe. I'm with it Sorry, my question is how much it will be easy to use what we do now what we chew and what is so to have to do with a big devil cheeseburger at nine a m. So this is also,
a really interesting and complicated question because its obesity and nobody is great- figured out how it works, but it is clear all the studies that aren't funded by industry. All the studies have shown that the more our population drinks, Sweden beverages, like soda, the heavier they are the higher the am I. The studies also show that the more soda population drinks the more or diabetes and heart disease, and there are actually really interesting reason for that when we drink sweetened beverages we dont get full it's the only way we take calories, that it doesn't prevent you from eating something else, the more so do you drink you just as much food and the rest of your day and the rest of your diet. So if you cut that out, that's a really easy way: you're still going to get the same amount of calories, but if you drink that I can just going to eat as much as you would. And what about this idea that we probably all read. The studies show that people who drink diet soda gained no less weight than people who drink the same amount of sugar and soda. What's the story there that vessels- Who do you know and if so, what's the mechanism by which had happens so that there is a
out of new research on it, and I am just gonna. Take this opportunity to say: we have an episode coming out in December and I'll be able to tell you the answer, then his joy, indeed at the forefront of this experiment in China's sell their wine. That's what they're doing so. The really know some people do substitute alcohol. some american fieldwork on this. I really do you know. I mean most of the region just think there's no way we can get this through in America, even those shown to work much better than Anything else, but industry has to agree, slash cooperate so they manage to keep Colombia from an act laws, but in Chile and Mexico they had really strong coalitions. they went out to kind of stand up to industry in Mexico is actually partlet. The coalition was funded by a Bloomberg,
nation and enjoy the president was a former minister of Health, so is really important to the president and to all of the government. Alexander P, try soda taxes in the efficacy thereof. What more can you say what I was looking into studies about graphic off putting labels in turning people from doing things they were trying to in France to discourage people from smoking, and they were doing their best to make really hideous graphic labels, but they word working aid because the people were set in there. is a b because they d like an image of a woman in the skull and everyone founded, two beautiful you gotta, be like the careful not to do accidently art when you're trying to tell me not to do a thing. Cynthia, Nicky, thanks, you're playing, tell me something. I don't know time now for a quick break. When we return more guests, we will make Alex going to Shelly. Tell us some things. We don't know and our live audience will pick a winner if you would like to be a guest on a future show or at end of tv show. Please visit freakonomics dot com.
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welcome back to economics. Radio live tonight. We're playing! Tell me something I don't know. My name is Stephen governor. Our fact checkers Alexander P, try and my co host is Alex born Shelly. Before we get back to the game we ve got some freak Whitley asked questions is written just for you Alex going to show you. Ok, what's one thing in your life, you spent much too much but don't regret boyfriends name of food that you love, that most people, hate, liver I love never worse so good. This was like one little sad package in the supermarket fact. Even sometimes I don't wanna just buy it too, like crusade for now. Let me ask you, conversely, observe food that you hate that most people love you risotto. If I got my our having so amazing sub disgusting to me, I want to die,
best cuisine, and why have we Chinese going up? My father could do a lot of Chinese, for my parents are both italian, but you know when you start with the fact that my father says the Chinese sought the Italians. make pasta through and I just think the way they use ingredients and flavors in textures is really amazing. What are you collect and why I clicked American China, because I just love it yard sales estates tells everything, but I will buy it if its, not american. Even if I love it, that's all. I collect other than books cookbooks when you write cookbooks mom's a very famous cookbook editor. Yes, yes, and I have discovered that my mother, in her very old School New York apartment, has approximately fifty thousand books, let's finish up with a quick ground of this or that ok, olive oil.
Butter. Yes, that's true. That was easy here. Oysters have shallow deep ride, hashish And finally, so we know that you grew up across the street from the late lamented Carnegie Delhi Dead engine that its brig dune and for one night it opens back up again. Oh my god and you ve got a shot at one sandwich. What's gonna be corn beef pastrami chicken liver? I can't believe you just said that set. I let me take my favorite sandwiches Carnegie with a pickle on the side. is half corned. Beef have pastrami on right with a smear chop over a year ago. And that was some good stuff, but I if I had to pick one pastrami, nice, ok and cardio grim for dessert
very nicely done now. Let's get back to our game, which please welcome our next guess He will. I gaiety understand. You are a doctoral candidate in psychology at the University of Michigan. Yes, that's right sounds good. What do you have forced tonight? Ok, so I want you to picture a dark gloomy sleep deprived Monday morning here in a hurry, you're getting ready for work. Your spouse turns around and says honey. Can you cook two eggs for me, one sunnyside up one perfectly poached, three pancake strawberry blueberry and you tell a flavoured forest strips of bacon Krispijn tender at the same time and a glass of orange juice with five little eyes keeps you looked at your spouse in disbelief.
And cooked for him anyway. What emotion is you're feeling right now? What emotion are you feeling probably there's a better word in German somewhere between regret and hatred, confusion that I've somehow into scenario married someone who wants to put ice cubes. It is orange you're saying there's a name for this emotion and come: does it come from year, your site, research? We gather sort, it comes from a culture of compliance, that's better! Perhaps this will help you. What emotion is your spouse? victory I don't know, word other than mommy. Let me up the question is this an emotion that any one of us scorned, Shelly, Alexander P, try even I might have exe.
for instance, our lives? Were you born into a japanese culture, not at all so you're saying that there is particular emotion that one would experience if one were japanese in ingrained in a japanese culture that we don't experience is that what I did right so we can actually identify this cause were too busy drinking soda, not eating oysters, because you speak English cause, you speak so the work. The word doesn't exist in English yeah. So what is the word? The word is called a mine I am a e, and only japanese, only japanese, accepting Linda English, there's a word called Marty, but so there's a but what about the emotion itself? Is it like the tsunami of emotion, and that now the emotion is. Am I really cooking this?
So this is fascinating if true in Alexandria will get taping over there, but here so you're suggesting that there are identifiable emotions that are essentially culturally dependent. Yes, yes, ok tell us more about. This is no casting sup. Two final, my first, my is this pleasant, sweet sensation. You feel when you depend upon someone's love and basking their indulgence. What does it mean so for people to feel of my three things must happen. Someone has to make an inappropriate request. Husband asked the wife to cook, even though she's in a hurry. Both people have to be in on the idea. He knows: The request is inappropriate. She knows that request is inappropriate. He knows that she knows. The request is inappropriate and she knows that he knows that she notation
as she knows that the request is inappropriate, it sounds like it's only from the person who gets the breakfast is experiencing that emotion right. What's the other one experience, the other person is feeling ideally immense joy. love and intimacy, which is to say that you have to get the idea. That's why both people have to be on the safe is immense. Joy built The same concept of my yes the Mai is an interpersonal emotion. You can't experience a my in isolation. What do you call The idea of an emotion like that that is so culturally dependent is that common in the world that is very common in the sense that there are two hundred and sixteen untranslatable words for wellbeing. Like Google geology I'll, it means the intense urge to pinch a baby's cheek in what language.
Filipino and we don't have that word. You don't have that word. So are these just symptoms or consequences of language, then, or is it deeper than that? It is deeper than that, in fact, and We have a word for that very concept called Hyper Cognition, Paypal, cognition, exactly hypo, not hyper, meaning the absence of cognition over something they would actually also. We have hypo cognition toward a my yes. Do. The Japanese have hyper cognition of my than depends on what,
the degree to which they practice of my. I will give you this, though we as Americans have high profile condition of seasonal, active disorder, nor wage against must experience winter blues by that standard, but they don't get depressed and that is a result of their hypo cognition sort of, or they can say that the result of our normal see as opposed to the high prohibition of winter blues in America. So is there something that Americans experience emotionally more or very differently from other people? Yes and if we were to use an example based on the very definition of hyper cognition, when someone you love, has died. How does it make you feel
depends do it was. If you asked to Haitians, they give you a very different response. They say I feel sick. I feel strange, I feel a sense of uncanny where they dont feel is grief. It's not that they don't experience pieces of
Transcript generated on 2021-01-20.