The blaze radio network on demand. Welcome to it it's the Thursday broadcast. Just a note you do. I want to miss tomorrow's radio program because, as you know, I'm a scientist. Of course, I'm a doctor, I have my doctor, do you have your doctorate? I do not Yeah, I do I'm so I'm a doctor, so I am I'm going to take something. Talk about in today's podcast and examine the truth of what was said. Barack Obama had some interesting things say about when he was growing up that if the press

were consistent would say: he's not qualified to be president of the United States, but it's not about truth with Kavanaugh thing, as we all know, but on tomorrow, tomorrow's broadcast we're going to take this revelation, a little further, taking it to the beakers or to the big ears. Otherwise known as do I don't feel comfortable with your direction are going to like it or not or not anyway. So today we're gonna talk a little bit about Cavanaugh also have a somebody who has done. So much on memory. He's done a whole season but his revisionist history podcast on memory disconnected from the Kavanaugh thing, but we talked to Malcolm Gladwell about can we trust our own memory kit? Should we just take some

his memory and take their word for it, and he gives you a a completely airtight answer on that with real evidence and scientific study behind it, but also like you're gonna. It is a bit like wow yeah. That's include really into the fact you beyond the the capital thing, it's pretty stunning also do Barton joins us. He has a new book book out called this precarious moment and we're talking. About millennials millennials get a really bad name, and it's served and that's why we're going. I don't see I mean it kind of is, but it's really not, because no one teaching them anything he's going to to us a little bit about millennials and what's really happening with millennials and, of course, Pat joins us for the pod?

it's Thursday October. Fourth, in Colorado, hello, Brian, how are you, how are you doing very good? Yes, quick question, just kind of going off of your book now the whole cabin, nothing going on. All the attention seems to have turned away from Trump 'cause. There's no outrage there. All the outrage is with Kevin, I'm just kind of wondering how you see the interplay between that because Cavanagh is an easier target because Donald Trump has not responded in the fashion that they probably expected him to respond and the reason why I would imagine, is because he doesn't have a good record on speaking about. Moral issues, and so somebody has said hush up and he has

That has that has given him real power, because all the trump is is involved on. This is is he's going to keep standing. Because he has a spine, yeah, he's standing and that's president needs to do at this point, and it is also allowed for the very first time it's. And a spine to the Republicans. So they had after Kavanaugh what it what they gonna do. He's the he's the target Kavanaugh also has remained cool. Until it was really appropriate. Had he come out and may crazy angry statements prior to no but his his timing of being angry is not a sign that he has a reckless temperament. It was appropriate for the time

if you are a thinking, human being and you or looking at things for your look, get the fact level you completely connected with Kavanaugh's opening statement, we're He said this: is Phyllis, you have destroid me you've destroyed my family. He a statement that was full of facts, refuting the things that she had said. He was totally appropriate. What's the result, the he is, I think, Cavanaugh is going to win the nomination, it he doesn't, it will be cut. Because eh public in or maybe a couple of Republicans lose their spine because there is. There are no facts on this, so they lose their spine. If they do it, they he will be the losers in this. Is that help Ryan. Is that what you were thinking? that doesn't make sense. To just kind of

the week target, as opposed to the strong one and 'cause that's what they do is exploit the weak. And yes, I appreciate that, Do you want it? I'm going to send you a book for getting on the air right? If you get on the air, we're start sending you books, did you want the book or the audio the we've got a lot of it: okay and Brian B, R Y, a n b r, I am okay thanks. Brian appreciate. It's in the mail. Uh we go to higher. It's still sitting right in front of him. Brian, don't believe it it's not in the mail yet liar. Let me go to. Let me go to Phyllis, hello, Phyllis, good morning Glenn. How are you very good? The reason for my all those I wanted to tell you a couple things. I appreciate you My call and I've learned a lot from you over all these years. So I thank you for that. You're welcome. I, like victim of sexual child abuse

my father was a kind and I suck for many many years until I put it into it and fortunately Glenn. No one believes me no one. So you know I just kind of felt I had to deal with this. I have to get over it It's not easy to do that, but I knew that blaming my you know what happened was not going to get me anywhere in life. So I under and in a way why? No one you know talked up in those days. You know two thousand and thirty years, So it was not it was. It was not. We we didn't think people were like that, and we didn't want to look at it if it was it's horrible that we've made good progress on that. Yes, we have. However, we swung from one end all the way to the other with no middle ground. So what I'm upset about is

that everyone believes this this doctor. Okay, just on her testimony which wasn't even you know significant is there they just believe it because of the health they went through and I don't understand why they don't listen to the facts. And this is one of the things are so disturbing about this. Obviously the me too concept is really, but it really important and very important. It really it could make a real difference, and instead, what it's turning into is here's a tool for Kratz used to destroy people's lives, which is an awful outcome or what agree? outcome would be out of this, in my opinion, is that going forward people like Phyllis, would would be believed. Least be taken seriously and have taken seriously believed if they have the evidence right taken taken seriously an end and would fear coming out, because if you had evidence

you had a real story to tell it would be believed, correct, and that's that that is the outcome that I think rational Americans are looking for him. They want to end. They think this is horrible, but they don't want to go the other, Hey. This is to become a vendetta. You know Phyllis is you said you knew that the anger wasn't going to get you anywhere in life, so you had to deal with it. If you deal with he is the situation you have a chance to grow. It is much better if the person who has done it to you has has You know reaped it's cons Quinces or has has, you know, admitted it at least or something it's hard. When people don't apologize or don't admit it and they, get away with it is really really hard, but that Sometimes what happens but by

I moving on with your life you're, not in to convict every man and that's what happening right now. There are these women who suffered this and have not healed. And so they want everybody to be believed, because no one would believe there's, and so they don't they don't you know. They don't know if it's true or not, but nobody believed me and this woman is going to be railroaded. What no your? situation is not their situation. And we have to base it on facts Phyllis. Thanks for your call, Aj in Oregon hello, AJ you're on the Glenn Beck program, hi glad So I a recovering addict without right I wanna get home talk about. Is I've been listening to the audio book? Is great and I kind of my wife and I kind of had like pivot points point. And it really hit me when I was listening yesterday- is a

Media outrage is was driving country more than anything, like you say in the book, you know Tommy thirty, six back when Apple right is and it and it's got to the point where. We just our life is so much happier by not engaging with politics online part. Social media mob. It's it's got point where my wife and I just were like looking at each other, all my gosh, I can't hear all this and I even took on more ball. Here I put unities, are homeless, youth, basketball, different things like that, and I feel so fulfilled now You get. Did you give up social media or did you did you cut down on it, I cut down on the outrage the absolute engaging with some family members that were progressive where you could.

You can even talk to it like beating your head against a brick wall. It was so frustrating I mean we don't! Even when we go to family dinners, we don't even talk about politics and we'll all you know. A lot of us are constitutional conservatives, but we don't even talk about it because it's so bad right now. It's it's what's in this book is perfect. It's perfectly titled it's perfect, for I think everybody should be reading it thanks a lot AJ appreciate, I'm going to send you a copy of the book you want to since you were listening to it, yes autographed to you So I would like to hard copy and God bless you guys. Thank you very much It is a you know. The next step is once you have once you have calmly done this and you have backed up, next step is to re, engage with your relatives, but on bigger principles. Don't talk to them about

Avalon, because they'll immediately go to the talking points. Don't talk to them about that talk to them about the bigger issue. Everything that we need. Our Unum is the declaration of independence and the bill of rights. Eg Pluribus Unum I've spent a lot of time, thinking, okay. So what what us together. What is the uniting thing? What can we all agree on well- not all of Us- grand majority of us. Should be able to agree on all are created, equal life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the the ten amendments to the constitution. Ok, let's start there, that's what brought people here. And that's what's being lost in the conversation we are arguing over parties, an personalities, that's what is really about. It's not did he do it or did he not do it? Is she lying? Is she telling the truth it is about?

Are you innocent until proven guilty, do presume innocence. Do we look for facts? is there a system in society outside of the legal standards where with the legal standards. Come from, the legal standards came from a group of people, our founders, and to that here in Erica they came here and said. You know what I can just be taken off the streets. I can be destroyed if somebody just says: hey, I'm and the king or I'm a I'm, a Lord ranma Duke in this person, did that there believe we've done, I'm not no matter what the evidence is: that's not right? I don't want that. Those are big principles in those the things that we need to slowly start to re, engage our loved ones with, because

That's where you find unity, the best of the Glenn Beck program. I mean they are so desperate to get this guy off the Supreme Court that they will do any Ronan Farrow is birthdays lighting his career autofire right now she turns up here is the best thing. Donald Trump has done during this whole thing. She has allowed the press without mucking it up, generally speaking, he's been pretty good yes, without without tweeting stuff and becoming the story himself. She has allowed the press, prove everything that he says about the press is, that is the way to fight this is the way and it's outlined in addicted to outrage doesn't mean surrender. It means

change the way, your fighting and Joe surrender the fax J, you're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program like listening to this podcast. If you're not a subscriber, become more now on Itunes, but while you're there do us a favor and rate the Shell David Martin is here and David is a friend of mine who was Ford trump because he kept saying in my ear gland. He is going to be really good on judges and I kept saying David you're an idiot he's not going to do any of that and you or exactly right- and I was wrong well into the program David. How are you get to be with you right? So your guess on Kavanaugh it's going to go down. I think it will help. I think the ones that are sitting on the fence will go the right direction, the one that makes me

the most nervous flight, because he's retiring yeah. Everybody else is going to face the voters and big countable, but flake has been his own guy, since he was in the house. Yeah he's the biggest biggest issue biggest problem, but that wouldn't be five thousand and fifty and then Pence goes forward. What did you think about Ben Sasses comments yesterday you know says I it's like he's he's like MIKE Lee, but he's a lot more vocal than MIKE is he's a lot like an adult in this thing that every once in awhile get your reality check yeah. He goes off and as he's great speeches every once in awhile, like he's teaching a bunch of gender garden kids here he is, he is it's right and I love him. I mean I did not see that in him before he got there and he's been an independent guy. That's been an independent thinker. I really like him. He is positioned, for I think two thousand and twenty four he's positioning self and it really he had a good place as being a reasoned likable call individual you where

individual vigil, yeah, he's he's very reasonable. The way it goes, he does a stuffy yeah teachers great so David is David is written a new book with another friend of mine, James Garlow, though precarious moment, six urgent steps that will save you, your family in our country and David, it's great book, and everybody should everybody should read it again, it's a book that is, talking about the staff. Is that you take right now and what I love about this David is let's just start on the millennial, step I have seen this work. You know it's kind of my book is uh, I put it into action myself in my own life and I've seen it work, you've done the same thing and you've seen this work with millennials talk about the millennials millennials right now I are one of the reasons we have a precarious or dangerous moment

because we have two hundred and forty two years of being an american nation under the declaration. Three hundred and thirty one under constitution, known as ever survive that long, and so we just kind of think will always be here. At the same time, you have five thousand five hundred years of recorded history and there's never been a socialist nation. That's increased freedom increase prosperity. Right now, seventy five percent of students in college support socialism, Bob all forms of government Can I survive if that becomes the believe when they become leaders? in the same way, four out of five millennials believe there is no absolute moral truth if we can't agree that things like rape and murder are wrong. You got no chance for having a nation the future you got fifty three percent of millennials who believe that free speech should be limited. Nineteen percent who believe that violence is the right response to the free speech. You don't like you and survive as a nation. So that's we call it a bit curious moment, but when you look at Millennials,

They are really easy to change a relational, they are hungry, If you, if you create a relation, a one on one relationship, I care about your age. They don't care about how you look at they care about, with your sincere If you are sincere and say, and what if found work? So well is just asking questions because they really have had a load dumped on them by their professors and by the culture and they've. Not through and when you, start asking them questions. I'm not trying to win. That's right, not trying to win just just like. I just I just that's it in anything. Let me ask you a question how whatever fill in the blank they to engage and- and they I find that actually the actually begin to who move Tordue faster and not not just only accepting things but

because you're engaging them and asking them to think as long as you're not trying to win. That's right, no he does that that's right, college they're being told what to think join in like this and if you have any other thoughts, so when challenge them. They I actually like that. It's the first time anyone is done it they really do, respond to thinking well and watch. It gets going they're. They are killer with that really That's an old school bus. I'm sorry right! I I can see that running so that it that out yeah, that's right, but they really are and they're the most of all groups and pulling for the hundred years have been appointed there. The most relational group in American, his What does that mean? They respond more to relationships, for example, they're, the only group in polling that wants to spend more time with their boss. Everybody else want spend time with deployed you get away from the boss or whatever they what time they want to be mentored, I mean they

They have a desire. Spend one on one time with people who can influence them and help them, and thank them That's not necessarily their motivation, but what is interesting is they respond really really well to that? and so when you create a relationship, that is a junior, as you said that trying to what just a genuine relationship make so much progress in turning them in a different direction and we've seen it ourselves. Things are not as bad as you think they are. Are bad. This is a bad. This is a pivot point for our country and if we fall down on our job it. It'll change, and it will go away and I think it will become very bad. However, it's not battle that you think it is you've been convinced by media and social media that everybody is thinking this way? They're, not David?

David Barton, is with us. He has a book out called this precarious moment. He's written it with James Garlow is just a great great guy and good thinker, and they have the stats in the book and they have different things. We've conquered. We were concentrating just for a second on millennials, because I know David is seen it and I've seen it 'cause we're doing it with mercury, one and when you present the facts to millennials if you're, trying to win the he wait a minute what talk about a few of the millennials that we have had in for our two week. You know training course, and they have actually come a little hostile. So that's right, yeah we haven't, they've come the skeptics and you're here to disprove us and show that we're all wrong and it's

but you know we don't we don't run from that situation. We just embrace them and said: let's have a conversation as long as you'll engage in the conversation, and so we start asking them questions and you know they have their opinions, but we just asking questions and it's kind of like they sit back and I I don't know, and so once you ask the questions that lead them to the information. It's amazing to see that they then take those questions to go back to those that taught them in chains that we literally, we have a a a girl that came and that do you know, learned all sorts of stuff. She went back to her professor started asking your professor questions. He got all The fatal he didn't know the answers he now Has asked her to be with him once a week and teacher hm what she learned in in all these classes, it's amazing it's amazing and, and he said she wrote a report and he said you are either a liar and you're going to get an or this is the best

paper see me in my office, that's right and she said. Ok, I want to talk to you about your sources and she had a nail down into should never hears a professor didn't know this stuff and economics, professor and he found out that founding Father John Witherspoon had the greatest impact of any person in american history, an american economics, and he didn't know that and she showed him that and then showed him the documentation and he okay, I want more because I clearly did not, but that's a thing of asking questions with relationships, and we take these these guys. Come in hostile or otherwise, and because of relationships, but and as we tell them, we have a lot of fun with the mummy. Quite frankly, we're telling the sarcasm so love language. If we don't make funny you it's because we don't like Iraq, it is, though, so you know we we we kid and joking to have a great great time, but they not transform and they are some of the most mature individuals and these these guys are all

it's in their mind to become leaders and hey there. So so good is just amazing. We were in a meeting in February. We, I don't think I've and now it's this formally. May I David go for it We are going to do black history month, a museum here at our studios in February. If you do I think, that's a little controversial, but we have worked on this and we're working on it with the Lincoln Museum, and It's going to be a little mind, blowing and really really eye opening to a lot of people on both sides. It's black history. But you know not all the black history that everybody knows. Let's tell the history. That really nobody knows and that's going to be here at our studios in the month of February and Yesterday we decided that because they're they're going to we're to have docents going to have people that are going

to tell these individual stories about these people in here on age. Nineteen. You come through and there. All going to be. I said yesterday, let's get some kids, we've met there even fifteen years old just we'll, learn it and really know it. It's really quite exciting to see millennials what happens when they're on leased and told the truth, David's new book, David Barton and James Carlos new book this precarious moment the six urgent steps that will save you, your family and your country grab a copy of it it. Really really good- and I agree with this steps and all the way through it- you are making the cake using fax. This is this is a book that you can and read, and learn all kinds of facts about the country that you didn't know. For instance, Let's talk about immigration, David immigration affect we didn't, know

is until one thousand eight hundred and seventy five eighteen. Seventy six, the federal government had no part in immigration. Belong solely to the states when a to America. You didn't move in the United States, you moved in the taxes or Maryland or Virginia or wherever, and that was the state's a controlled immigration, the Us Supreme one thousand nine hundred and seventy five eighteen. Seventy six two decisions said hey. We think Take this over now and so First time we have federal immigration is an one thousand, eight hundred and ninety two, when Ellis Island, Open Sessa, first federal immigration facility, everything before that was the states. We have no clue. And then, when you look now, the founding fathers were very good because article one section eight of the constitution says they can establish a uniform rule of naturalization, so they did test, three laws, one thousand seven hundred and ninety one thousand seven hundred and ninety five and one thousand seven hundred and ninety eight said. Okay, we can set the naturalization, here's what you gotta do to come to United States and let's go through first, that what they set forward

the immigrant, must have good moral character. You doing anything to check on good moral character, background check and by the way, Ben Franklin said that when you came, you needed to have a certificate from a religious society attesting to your good moral character from the country in which you left The immigrant must not only support the constitution and our government of laws but renounce allegiance to any other nation, or L t to any other system Sharia Sharia and by the way we had Muslims in America since one thousand six hundred and nineteen, but to be part, country. You had to agree to the constitution, not come here to overturn it the image, must believe in the equality of all Americans to renounce and renounce any title of nobility. So what I have to. If I was coming in, but I have to declare that I was not a member of the press. Title of nobility or professor professor yeah. It's

Espy residency requirement of of five years. In the United States before citizenship, now let let me hit that one, because I was really shocked about that in the co. So to show convention, seven the thirty nine guys who signed the constitution were immigrants. They were themselves immigrants, and so Alexander Hamilton was when he came from West Indies. Pierce Butler is another and this guys said and how I mean the debates are great. They said, look when we got here. If we had voted, we would have voted the way that we were thinking from the West Indies in Ireland elsewhere and Butler said you should not be allowed to vote until fourteen years here, because you need to learn to think like in America all my gosh with that Texas needs to do that with Californians, always you're right, all Texans technicians, I'm telling you we're gonna lose Texas because of the Californians they are just the vote the way they voted him and we are not the same place that were not the same place and they think like California takes a so

I sent a five years and that's what they went with was five years, but you could not vote in America to you been here five years, otherwise would turn this place into wherever you just left no anchor babies. Citizens goes citizenship goes from parents to child, not to try not child to parent. Wow Pretty risk can be deported and permanently banned from the United States. The government must the borders during times of war, it will have a definite role in immigration, so that is what they that's. What that's the original immigration law? Okay, I for And it's fascinating in the book that we have argued as if these things were not settled long ago. We have argued common language. How dare you insist as if it was just some idea that a bunch of racists had yeah.

Franklin is a great example, because Ben Franklin talked about how so many Germans from moving into Pennsylvania and they were and he's the problem is, they are speaking their own language. There started to create signs in German they're, starting to create chemist in german- you can Have a nation. If you don't speak the same language or Franklin was one of the first ones out the Thomas Jefferson. The same thing he said Immigrants come in it, which is great and by the way they were so pro immigration that, in the declaration of independence, one of the twenty seven grievances was we're separate from gray Britain 'cause he's trying to stop immigration. We want immigration We wanted a simulation with immigration. They were huge pro immigration get simulation, I mean it looks. Booty was Thomas Jefferson. They will bring with them the principles of the government they leave and bide with their own or lead involved. In the early youth, these old principles with their language, they will transmit to their children in proportion to their numbers. They will share with us in legislation they will

Is it into their old spirit, warp and bias? It's directions, Ann render it at heterogeneous, incoherent and distracted mass he's? is the solution. It is thought better to discourage their settling together in large masses, and they should distribute themselves sparsely among the native for quicker assimilation. This goes right with with this seems to me necessary. This is Franklin seems to be necessary to distribute. The Germans, the Germans more equally mix them in with English, establish English schools, that are now where they are now too thickly settled. I am again period, I am not against the emission of Germans in general, for they have virtues their industry, fergality blah blah blah the great farmers Just saying we have to get them to be Americans. This is the opposite

what we're doing and no Dearborn Michigan Salma. We we want people to simulate a. We don't want to create a parallel culture where the almost a no goes now for for places some millions in in Minnesota exactly and we get groups in West Texas, creating their own separate communities, and that's not it it's a simulation you want to be. An american? You don't come too Erica to take over and move it to whatever your country was you come here? an American? Now, that's what professors, the elite groups, really are ended. All America really bad. You know we need. We need to be like Europe or whatever one way to lose it is, is to not pay attention what they did. One of the things we try to do in the book is we don't the government solutions. We tried to give things that every single individual can do because America healthy from the bottom up, not the top down. You say that racial healing is fairly easy. All we have to do is do it, what

What is the plan for racial healing? You know, there's several things one is you gotta change, some of your knowledge base. This is what we found with millennials they're taught about race, from the way that professor see it, and we show them seven things that everyone needs to know about race and generally, they don't their historical. But I'll stop you had with those are yeah. There's several things this the first permanent is permanent. Slavery was introduced in America by a black man, Anthony Johnson who sued own other black man. We the fact that forty three percent of blacks in South Carolina own black slaves. That wow one out of nearly half one out of eight native Americans, own black slaves in major tribes and that didn't stop, did not sensitive emancipation proclamation. When did slavery still didn't stop with the 13Th Amendment, when we abolish slavery 'cause, we only abolish slavery in United States, but indian nations that are their own nations and write down by more. When did they stop? It was years later it was probably a decade later before slavery stopped in indian nations.

What we do is show slavery is a human problem. It is not a black white problem, despite what your professor say it is, a problem and the way you view human humankind. So we go through and and show of, for example, TIM, Scott and James Lankford in the Us Senate have come up with. This thing, where you invite other people from other races to come, eat a meal on Sunday come into your house and you know, learn and touch. You know of racism, institutional, you solve it. One person at a time change in a hard time, seeing people different, and not having this black white polarization that we often try to make today how. Worried. Are you David about the level of anger? Now level anger is a real problem, but what it's? What it's I promise is the bigger problem and Esther prototypes, and all these things we really don't know each other and one.

Get to know each other and what you do this in a relational stuff like with millennials and and like with folks of other races and other groups, once you start doing individual stuff. That's where it breaks down That's where you're able to demonstrate that you know what you thought about May or what you thought about. This group is not accurate, we're in the were made odds, image. We have equality and get along great, it will sit down and talk. So it's what you're doing to book length I mean addicted. Right? That's exactly it. You sit down and have conversations on bigger things, so real quick, just one last give me the six things that you say: Are. These are the six urgent steps? with their actually six ordinaries. What we've got to do an immigration? What we to do in our relationship with Israel. What we to do with millennials what we to do with people of faith. Doing a herbal job right now, some people of faith. So we

those six areas and that let me live such on Israel. Our relationship with Israel is pretty good. Unions are now your concern in the book about Christians are the star in to become Anti semitic. They are becoming anti semitic. Always what is change this last? Well, we don't know the scriptures well anymore and that we have the highest level of biblical literacy of any generation american history. And so we're seeing one thousand six hundred anti Israel events a year on college campuses, don't know much about the Palestinians, but they're told their press people in Israel's doing it. So We have a real will turn against Israel, and a lot of denominations are coming out against Israel denominations that used to be very pro Israel. Now, yes, absolutely absolutely yeah, these are the more liberal churches, though the their water called mainstream denominations, so that that you know this is kinda like the United Methodist Church Yassin, USA, those so

I've never been anti Israel before, but now they are there they're coming out in there one in do the bds kind of stuff, the boycott divestiture in sanctions There is a growing anti semitic movement among people of faith in America, which is certainly a problem. This administration's uncrate job on restoring a it's just. It's been absolutely meja, but that doesn't solve the individual problems. We have at college campuses and at churches and people of Faith David BAR, and James Garlow? The name of the book? Is this precarious moment, six urgent steps that will save you, your family and our country, are at the edge of the cliff. And, as as the the righteous among the nations the woman that I met in Poland told were you there David right there, where you on that trip I and going she said the

Just didn't suddenly become righteous. They just refused to go over the cliff with the rest of humanity. We are at that cliff. Learn to stand. Teach your family to stay, I'm thrilled to have Malcolm Gladwell. On with this I'm a big fan of his his his writing. Also, revisionist history is fantastic. I I think I started listening to the last season on Friday I consumed every was like you know: hey the kids are throwing up their sick they're on fire and I'm like shut up. I'm listening to Malcolm It's unbelievable! His latest episode his latest season on revisionist history. You don't really know until kind of you know towards the a bit that oh wow. This is all about memory, and I've learned that everything I What about memory is probably wrong,

to tell you what it was, but I don't trust my memory anymore. So Malcolm Gladwell is here hello, Malcolm. How are you hey, Glenn I'm doing very well. I thank you for your podcast there's just so great. Thank you. That's very kind of you I wanted to I've, been thinking about you a lot lately because of the Kavanaugh hearings and everything else, and I don't want to get into the Kavanaugh hearings What I do want to talk about is our memory and how It can be changed. Manipulated how it's natural for these things to happen, I mean you explained the Brian Williams story in in such a dick current way. 'cause, you didn't condemn him and you exonerate him. You just Let's look at the facts on memory yeah. Can you take us through it yeah the memories I think that in the last generation uh cycle,

has spent an enormous and neurologist enormous time trying to understand how it works, The more we learn about memory, the more we realize how fallible it is and we more and when we systematically go back and we test our memories, we, they don't do very well, so there's a famous set of studies that are called Flashbulb studies, where a famous event happened: nine then uh, the challenger explosion and go to a large group of people, the incident happens, and you say everything you were doing. Thinking on the only when you heard that news. Where were you who did you talk to first? How did you feel you know what happened that day and then they go back to the same group of people a year later, five years later, ten years later and ask him the same set of questions and compare their answers and oh, what you discover is that not everyone but many of the people.

Substantially alter their memories, the event without sizing it. Otherwise they are the first time they'll say when I heard when I saw the towers fall, I was standing in the streets of Manhattan with my best friend Jim tears streaming down. My face And then, ten years later, they'll say when I first heard the towers fall, I was watch in a television in my dorm room, and I ran out you know, and then I ran and called my friend Jim who was in Boston and they there is convinced. Play the that's what their memory was as they as they were, the first time they they. They will do their memories without the day of the of nine hundred and eleven, and so that kind of stuff. My point into the Brian Williams thing was when you

your stand out all the memory is. You are a lot more forgiving of what he did. He did something which turned up a lot of us do all the time, which is we make a call the time slice error. We we confuse the timeline in our minds and we we think we're one place when something happened and we're another place, or some we've heard a story been told so many times that we slowly credit cells into the story without realizing that we're doing it, and my my point was that these are not sins of character. These are these are just facts of human memory and we see so often when I make someone's faulty memory into a task that there are other carry and I think that's a mistake. It's uh! You know there are people who deliberately lie absolutely, but a lot of what we think might be deliberate lying is just a manifestation of the frailty.

Human memory, so I really don't want to get into politics on this, but I I do want to ask you this question to see. If the way I am when when I finished with the hearings last week, I felt okay I think she believes that, and it may have happened that way, don't know and I felt Brett Kavanaugh. Believe he believes that they both. Could he telling the absolute truth correct, yeah, yeah? Yes, they both I don't think either of them are deliberately lying. I think means that the The thing about memory is that we honestly believe that this is what happened even though it isn't. You know my best friend Bruce. I honestly believe I met him on the first day of first grade. I can picture it in my mind. He on

He believes that we met in the principals office at the end of first grade and we didn't. We didn't even meet throughout entire that entire year right. This is one of the most important events in my life, my best friend and we are off by eight months and he thinks we bet, because we we had got into a fight and, I think, He came up to me and introduced best friends you from the beginning, like you know, I have. I I'm not lying about it. It's what I remember But one of us completely made up that memory from whole cloth In fact, when you were talking about the nine Slash eleven study there were- people who came back ten years later they wrote out. You know within a few days, if I'm not mistaken, was it a few days or was it a year after nine eleven. The original writing, where the original time they went to the next day. Ok, so, the next day they

ask them to write out exactly where they were? What happened? Ten years later, some of them said I don't know why. I even wrote that this is a lie. This is not what happened. I don't know why I was lying then, and the convinced somehow another they made something up. That was print than what they knew to be true, now yeah people that are the most important things the memory researchers will tell you if you but confuse confidence with accuracy, in other words the fact that I am absolutely certain that what happens at what happened happened, is not a reliable guide to its accuracy, so you can't so I am convinced I, my friend Bruce on the first day that should that does not mean it's more

to be true, then, if I said you know, if I, if I expressed it with more doubt, so I think what it did a lot of what this the last of all this is is that we just need to approach our memories and not just our memories, our entire lives with a lot humility, you can't you will not. Our brains are not Superman, they don't they're, not we've. Never video recorder up there taking out in perfectly you know when we need to when I say I remember heard something one way I need to be. I need to check it talk to others, I need to be open to the possibility. I might be wrong. I need to that's why we have legal, send investigators in right tip to compensate for the fact that our memories are not what we would like them to be. Everyone outside. Let's, Take it outside of this political nightmare

me too movement. I think it's been very good on huh well, it's been very good. I'm concerned about the the need to be believed. I don't it's a man or a woman now, They need to be heard and taken seriously, but we just believe what someone says: for a myriad of reasons- and I fear dangerous, this road that we're going down, because we need more than just your word and your memory, because you might believe, that's true, but it might not be yeah. Well, it's funny. This is exactly point that run in you know the the the journalist who has been responsible more so than anyone else for breaking news stories. I went to see him give a interview and he was he was

reviewing the actress. Who is I forgot your name of course. Custom memory is very faulty source of many of the meteor allegations and they were talking this about. It's very point and he very explicitly said my job is a jerk is not to believe the women it is to sing to them and then try and call corroborate through careful reporting those aspects of their story that are their stories. Careful reporting and if I can't corroborate them- and I can't write the story at my job as a reporter is to compensate for the frailty of human memory, and that is that is a beautiful way of it, in what the responsibility of media and, it is in these cases, is okay. Someone has gone clearly believe they've gone through something very traumatic, that's systematically trying to figure out

I did it happen that way and if it didn't happen that way, let us not then judge person say they're a liar right. That's the crucial part when it's like it is we? We can't lose our humanity over this. We have to say with to say if we do an investigation and not the way that person says we have to very respect, police say you have you, like? All of us have a memory that is in perfect. That would be wonderful. If we lived in that world hold, Malcolm, I am I'm so concerned that, and you've said it now twice and It is it's what made me successful in the first place, and I am so glad that I have discovered how dangerous it is. Sir attitude We are a population that is certain about everything and it's good to have

a core set of beliefs and principles, but you must be open to hear new information and and uh information that doesn't give you What is a cognitive dissidence is good, it's good! that's a sign that something in you isn't isn't quite right, don't shout He threw it, stop back it step back and go okay which one of these two don't fit with the principle I believe, do I need to change the symbol or do I need to throw out that the information that I'm that I'm now acting on right yeah, but so here and people don't want to do that yeah. I that you know it's funny. I had a conversation last night with a friend of mine who is a Mormon and who was talking the tradition in the among Mormons of keeping journals, which I did known about and she years and years and years of journals, and she

Talking about what that means, for when you have a contemporaneous account of your life. Feelings, your action. See our interpretations of what you've done. You can go back and it's obviously serves a function far great to be checking your memory yeah. But it's a way of keeping yourself honest. What I loved about that was that it that notion of if- we live in such a kind of difficult and all world. Then we have to take responsibility for our own stories and that to me, what is what the what what that tradition of keeping a journal is about it. As a human being, you have a responsibility to your self and to others to to understand the road that you have taken right and write it down, so that when you, twenty years later, you can look back and you said I'd, I had forgotten. I did this, then you don't.

I regret it now, or maybe I've learned from it, but that that to me I just thought that was lovely. I really did. I thought that was as an example of a kind of practice and you, you know, obviously know much more about this than I do, but the idea that that is part of what it means to be Righteous actor in the world is to take your kiss me seriously. Have you heard from Brian Williams, sincere podcast? No, I have sure I'll read it when they're ready to read it, and I mean he he he can't be can't public, say, that's true, that's great, but you know poor man, I I think he was like part of him, I'm sure it was like. I can't believe he's breaking this up again

Malcolm thank you. So much for being on the program really appreciate your thoughts about Malcolm Gladwell. You follow twitter at Gladwell and also, if you have not heard this podcast, it is so relevant. What we're going through right now then specially listen to which I would have asked him about the German. Spies. Oh my gosh, it's a great story The list of it's a two part about the german spies, listen just even start with the the Brian Williams, You will see, wait a minute. Wait, a minute wait, a minute. No, not to believe people on their memory alone. Them seriously season three episode. Three and four are the two that you're talking about the it really isn't in the prime wins things incredible, because it I will hundred percent just he was just trying to lie to make himself look better and when you look at like the way he did it and all

details around? It will at least make you uneasy about that conclusion. He will heal I always say, do something this week that makes you uncomfortable Listen to this because it will, especially if you think that Brian Williams absolutely he's just a pig. Listen to this is it will challenge you and you, if you're, honest with yourself, will go well, wait a minute, I'm not quite sure and if you're really honest you'll go gee. I wonder how much of that is happening with me. The blaze radio network on demand.