In ninety. Ninety seven, a man on a giant stage, ripped an article from a magazine shoved into a blunder, put some clue. Liquid in hit bland and then drank the cloudy pulpy substance. The occasion was the sixth intern. national worldwide web conference. The man was that years keynote Speaker, Robert Med, calf in the nineteenth seventies, Med calf invented Ethernet founded three come he. How create the internet. So why was he chugging mulch in front of an audience? two years earlier, he wrote a column in which include did the sentence. I predict the internet. Will soon go spectacularly supernova and He ninety six catastrophically collapse He ate his words, He was so certain that the, he was right that he was willing to eat his words any dead, History is full of horrible predictions about technology, and now,

from idiots either from experts? in eighteen, seventy six, an inventor offered to sell the patent for one of his inventions to William Orton Press end of Western Union Orton was outraged. In a memo. He wrote that the invention had too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as any means of come education The inventor was Alexander, Graham Bell in the invention was the telephone. Eighteen, twenty seven h, M Warner, CO founder of Warner Brothers said: who the hell wants to hear actors talk, actually that when I still agree with in nice sixty six time magazine predicted that online shopping would flop, because women, to get out of the house they like to handle the merchandise they like to be? to change their minds Eighteen, thirty, six, the New York Times predicted a rocket will never be able to leave the earth's atmosphere. Ninety five,

an article, a news. We predicted that no online data base will replace your daily This paper You can find that article on news weeks online data base if they haven't gone out of business, yet predicting future is a tough game even the most, you're. It guesses have giant errors and blind spots. It's why fortune tellers, keep things airy and vague, you know, but if we had to guess most of us, would say that social media is a technological behemoth there is no way to know how it's gonna play out or what turn we should make Willoughby I'm an obsolete relic? a ridiculous old trend, or will it fuse us and fuse into our society and until we're inseparable from it, we don't know and knowing really bothers us. So what do we do? We panic.

Today's gas is one of the brave souls willing to make a prediction. His latest book tech panic, why we shouldn't fear Facebook and the future send and generally refreshing. Take on the question when he is in connecting the future he's the senior editor of reason. Please welcome Robbie Suave, they re too heavy. For it to be. I think the first time we spoke was when you exposed theyve the re Pope and rolling stone the rain oversee Virginia many years ago now, yeah so now you're living in Washington DC and how much like that I used to love DC now I feel, like its most miserable place on earth,

between the them. and people wear masks outside by themselves on the street under circumstances. It even are notoriously risk averse CDC, doesn't think you have to mask anymore. People still do it; they they fly If you, if you express disdain at this? In fact, they express disdain it you for not doing it what's happening to us, I think the mask is becoming a symbol for the what I call the blue tribe, the way the mega hat a symbol for the red. Try for her trumps tribe, the mass is there a version of that, because this really bad health or safety anymore. Its just now, I'm not at all, not at all, and I'm letting people know who you voted. For you know University of Chicago. I just read this morning is not only making you get the they mandated vaccination, but you have to sign, your name in agreement with several statements,

when I do not necessarily agree with any of those statements there. Now it's not enough. We saw with the S paean, it's not enough to get the vaccine. you now have to like it was called campuses alive. Liberal arts camps is the Ivy League Colombia Harvard Brown other places. They are implementing the most a thing rotarian campus covert policies of all, and they are places where they could have less rigorous mandates, because students people are generally fairly protected from carbon and there are there are vaccinated. Ninety five percent plus are vaccinated and they're telling people don't takes. Of water and clad in classical you'd have to take your mass down for long enough. We want you to go outside to do that. They are telling students the cafeteria are being shut down, eat by yourself in your dorm room. If you must interact with another human being, please do it outside and please I'll make any new friends, because we don't want you to expand your social circle. These are dictates from the universities and we have already seen how campus kind of coal

sure can in fact the rest of society with the sort of worry over. I'm very worried that the this crop of students who will become the elites of our society will be student to policies that are frankly insane. I read something: I'm gonna butcher this I'm sure, but I read something the other day from an author he said, week. Men make hard times are hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times good times. Egg weak men, weak men up to this end, there. We I mean we. We're all week We're both static were pathetic, we're just making thing Really bad yeah But I guess the Good NEWS is at some point,

that will be strong men, a guy hoping to get familiar. So it must feel weird for you, to be the euro at this time, yeah saying why we shouldn't fear Facebook and the future. The Tec panic you sure how much we're going to agree on, and I think that's really good, haven't healthy debate. We might up agreeing on more than than I think tell me why tell me why we shouldn't fear Facebook so I think most of the revelations that have come out in the last few weeks with this corner court whistleblower, although I am not sure she told us anything, nothing, we didn't already know, and it seemed her solution- seems to be more government control and more of the sort of limit. What worse? What we see on these platform, you know, it's weird is her solution. She selling out the man ran. Her solution seems to be exactly the solution: xo,

Herbert the mayhem re Likes rang, wants an idle. here I want to hear it from another senator that instead grams addiction problem is akin to like cigarettes and big tobacco. Big tobacco is killed like millions of people Instagram. There are some issues and I think parents would be well advised to limit the amount of time their teenager spend on social media. I'm took now that require common solution, which no parents please do that here, but there out of kids, who benefit also from social media. We forced them to stay home and two and to avoid all social contacts last two years I think, probably Annette. I would bet they're. Mental health is better because the text access to social. It can be unhealthy and you know we gotta again. We can talk about how we should limit their I'm using it, but high school is tough. I bet I bet the majority of teenage girls would tell you that just going to high school makes them feel sad oppressor bully because being acute is hard? Oh, these payments are only three.

Girls, one boy boys gonna high school. That's enough to forty eight as a rough time, but not grow Sir vicious their various. Yes, they wound with words, yeah yeah vicious stuff. You know Facebook only, I think, or of social media only amplifies. It can make it worse yeah, but these problems existed law before social, maybe we're talking about the bought body, image problems of like glossy magazines and other thing area at that I believe the main thrust of my book is that everything you're saying is wrong with social media. I think there are some legitimate She was there too, but This is also just present in the traditional media, the media that predates social media, which is you know if you want to get into the sort of treatment of conserving speech on social media. This is a major issue for a lot of you on the right, and I am agreed most of the time when they take down a piece of right wing content or conserve content, and it's a bad guy

all. In all I said it's a backup, undermine thing, disease etc still that social media is probably really good for conserving better than the three networks yeah better then this is the New York Times will never run up ad by republican senator again that with their lesson from the Tom Cottontail from him expressing an opinion, probably a majority, the country agrees with that these rights are out of control in the federal government. Ought to do something about it that appeal was considered unsaleable in them three media, that's the level hostility to conservative to non liberal thought to even to probably far left out anything contrary enter than doesn't fit in the liberal bubble. On social media. Yet they do sometimes take down stuff. They should leave up, but I see the numbers I see you know Tucker Ben Shapiro other over the blaze. Other conservative new sites actually doing really well on Facebook, which is why the liberals, want to destroy Facebook, even more so the soul

I think we agree on You know capitalism is, and the internet and Facebook everything it is what it is, what you put into. It is what make city there really good, really dangerous. It's just a tool, the problem- and I don't I I am libertarian minded and I don't like regulate and I'm firm on no regulation, no, no more laws, because it will not work out well for liberty, but I'm stuck in this place, because I have always said private- companies can do whatever they want, but this is the one place where I am beginning to feel the founders could imagine or being far

more powerful than a country you know domain and That's fine, but how their merging the two of them. So I'm not sure that the solution lies with regulating Facebook as much as it does, regulating the government and saddle back into your box, but we yet the EU that I agree with completely government is the one of the big tech. The marriage of big tech and big government is scary, but the one we can have some control over these. Theoretically, because an organizational structure is the government when facebook takes down in a so called corona virus misinformation. The lab league theory you're not allowed to discuss it on Facebook, terrible call White House is pushing to do that arrive there Mina lightly, threatening them every one in the mainstream media is telling them to do that. They rely on cues from what the New York Times tells them, whereas they shouldn't do that, but they feel

to do anything else, because right now, there's a there's, an ax hanging over their head, something hanging over their head. Everybody on Capital Hill, wants to regulate them. Even even republicans want to regulate them. Some of them do Israel stakes. I think it's a mistake to because the in the end of the day the regulators will be progressive, sold and people who will investigate louder than he had ever work when his eyes were government ever worked out for Liberty, yap, never gap. Never. You think that The bureaucrats who are investigating these companies care that they took down too much conservative speech now it these companies are make too much money. That's what I'll be there too big and powerful, and we have to break them because there a threat to our democracy. That's the view of progressive, and that's what it will be at the alone. Do you believe that that a corporation can ever be unexamined. I've I've always marked and hated. You know what

does this dopey in future movies? Whether like I work the corporation recycling. You heard me always hated that yeah I kind of feel that way now, because it is becoming one. Everybody is working together and you know if, if social media is not taking it down, then it'll be the FBI and the FBI is really kind of guided by the White House. But so is social media and it really is becoming that yeah. these companies are making a lot of bad calls at the behest of their woke employees. To be frank, I dont think I dont think Mark Zuckerberg is actually inclined towards sort of liberal censorship overreach. I think there are people work in his company who graduate from places like Oberlin in jail and etc, and they called hostile views toward kind of base,

principles of a culture of free speech, and it really bad that are Education system has produced that and we need to go down the line right when we're not gonna see some change for many years, but that's it we're time our big. What kind of bigs scented changes. Do we need to make to not have people too? who feel this way running. All of our society. all the elites. That's it I think we need to do just you know. Regulations aimed at the companies are at the like the last link, the chain and they're just gonna backfire. So how do you deal with a company that just swallows the has swallowed every competitor- and you know- hey my god- something they want to buy it. God bless him yeah, but they ve swallowed, almost everybody and it too PETE against them, because of regulations that they ve helped put in place. They can Lord things and other companies yup can't afford so start ups.

no, it's not a level playing ground play playing field. There is a market for the opposite of a facebook. There is that market, but they kill you. I mean look at what I look. Look. What happened on January six out of it so. What happened parlor France's, I think, was very suspicious. I don't I don't like it at all. I've criticized it. that's the reason that they take parlor out of the app store, but they they said there. Some violence is being organised on a platform, but of course, violence is being organised on Facebook and still is every day and they didn't do anything about that. Does seem unfair. Now you get into a just a technical issue where ya hear lot. Republicans are more interested in antitrust law now, but exists Ding antitrust law is about harm to the consumer. Not so the problem posed by Facebook isn't really

essentially, we need new laws to kind of address this problem like the traditional monopoly. Is they own all of the resource or whatever the people need, and then they can raise the price of it, but they're, not Charlie. Doesn't charge the user for the service and there's not it's it's a different kind of company. I would, I will listen to whatever proposal is on the table to address this, but I still think that, even though they are they ve crush, some competition. There still more ways to speak on line than ever before, like Twitter is a competitor, they have Instagram, but kids now like Snapchat and Tik Tok. Might I think Facebook is kind of a dying star. They kick at new new young user. No, it's it's! It's Boomer, Bournemouth, recalling rife. I remember when I was younger. Myspace was my was the social media site I liked and AOL Instant MESSENGER and those things are gone. Those things are God soil. happened. What happened on Myspace? Why did that fail? And Facebook secede pizza

market competition faced because a better product, my space was Galicia. It had a bad user interface actual out too much customizing like you, could change the lay out the way it looked like your favorite banned in the background, and they really wanted to focus on music. That was their value add, whereas face was initially just a site for college students and they quickly decided. Let's openness up to every one is better it was a better. It was a cooler sleeker product and they beat Myspace. That's it. That's really what happened and someone else it's hard to imagine how anyone else who could do it, but I, it is possible that someone could do that to Facebook. In fact, in the history of web on companies. That has happened a lot. Google. Google is very dominant, no question there. They are mostly dominant because the search engine they offer everybody really likes I mean they have the best product

They know they beat. They just beat. The search engines are on the market. Previously, I think they're closer to a traditional monopoly than other companies. And again I dont, like I know they ve made miss. eggs were concerned. It was vital issue here. Are yours digs always running that way, but it but again the need for an investigation into them that the feds were doing was aimed at the other monopoly power and was saying they really didn't like that. It's the default search engine on apple products, but if it did, they think they They pay apple to be the deeper default search engine. So if somehow the government broke up that arrangement is all of the apple customers will just be like. Well. How do I put Google back on phone right is what the customers wants with some at some level. What we're saying is we need to bring the government in between two companies whose use is willingly who like this? This is something they like and you're saying why

why are we lonely Mcgovern again do not mean. So let me ask you this, because this is a place where I think the government, maybe should get involved, and that is what I am my thoughts. You know my output is me. It's me my data. What I do that's mine things would dramatically change if you could just opt into that or say no you don't get any of that lets you gonna pay me that flip the power back around too, because really, when it's free, you're the product, you know, and I felt people- I don't know people really still get that but hard to put

Pandora back in this box or she doesn't go in the box. She opens about anyone hard to shut it just her by examines usually democracy. So you don't think there is a way to get information. Europe. Has it an approach to a lot of these things day in these speech versus privacy, trade off their way. more interested in privacy and we are way more interested in speech in in being. Well to speak, even if its make People and comparable rights revealing private information about people that the way our first amendment kind of understanding has gone, and there are a lot of benefits to that. You know you can't you can have you have hate speech laws in in England and France, it cetera invaded in ways that I think are cruel and abuse it to people, but they also can have right to be forgotten? Where you can it's all. You can petition Google to have you

search results taken out and Andy. There's a process to do that and ghoul Google grants a lot of those in accordance with the law. I I privacy to. I don't, I think it's. Unfortunately, some of those things are non starter because of how our courts interpret the first amendment, there's only so much you can do at the end of the day so when you say don't fear Facebook I I fear the collusion, but the part that I do fear, and it's not a facebook problem. It is and a problem. When you can predict. And you know someone much better than they know themselves? you can move and sway friends, It's just the search engine and the search results for politicians in how you can

just by by ordering them differently. You can sway people that kind of stuff. How do you deal with these, companies being able to move its kind of others app of one's free choice, worth didn't really philosophical here a well, I mean you know, and we ask the conversations I think we should be having where in the world is dramatically changing and that you know was called propaganda and then because propaganda got a bad name, they changed the to advertising right now we're being marketed to without even knowing we're being marketed too, can be very dangerous in the wrong. How can be dangerous? But I think the left is very concerned about this because they just hate capitalism, whereas I like

and I see advertisements when I watch tv and most of them are irrelevant to my interest. I live in DC, I'm not gonna Weimar anytime, soon icy tons of car commercials, whereas on Facebook I get ads for things I might actually buy. So A matter which is not in sometimes it's nefarious but and in terms of the propaganda and political that kind of stuff, but I still have to compare it to everything else, like What news is a twenty four hour infomercial for one political view of the other, depending on who shall you're watching, there's so much open, you no encouragement of here's how what you should think that I no problem with that everyone should should make use of their first. Men are right to advocate for whatever they want. I don't really know that social media is doing that in any more direct or nefarious way than any, The traditional media comes. The New York Times endorses people for president. They tell you to vote for directly, so it's weird for them to complain that Facebook is, you know:

still convinced everyone to vote for Donald Trump and that's. Why he's president? Where are you from all over the world or em right, but I think there's a difference on being open and being variously in the shadows. You know I mean I have no problem. You wanna tell me What European isn't this? What we do here, let's go I know who you are and I can choose the inner how, but when you are no work, lately, all we are as a search engine right. You want to find an answer were stacked. The deck, so you right believe the answer lies matter in a banner air there, no eighty new era. We are actually not completely neutral. We should dispense without farce, not that will be of not making that claim whatsoever. So yeah think there are problems are just think. On balance, they ve been good for

heretical view views because we used to have decades ago we had just a small number of media companies and you could only say something that was in their narrow range now. The conversation, those people have no control of the conversation and they hate it. Nor any want control right. They want to shut down facebook and everything else so that can again be the people who decide what we're talking about they. again, I can't really wins it's the weirdest thing for they hate speech, they hate free speech. They really didn't do they do you and it's so weird that companies that were built you'll be you you be you now I don't want you to be. You know you value is lungs. You right into this canning right. It's so bizarre. I mean there lapsing. The idea of this is very philosophical, but with the new

kind of woke laughed. The idea of the individual is kind of anathema. You have to be part of some group identity and I dont have any I'm a libertarian, I'm not really a social conservative. I dont have pastilles. To these kinds of group identities are talking about. I just think, but at some why that's just you, nor characteristics such as to you are, and that's great but you're, just you, you don't have to subsume you to whatever group density your choosing. I think that's one of the biggest problems if you if you were a conservative, but you didn't say that Donald Tromp was the greatest person to ever live and all of the claims he made about the most luxurious hotel stated If viewed in by end that, like now, I dont really for a while they're right, you were dead, you're dead. That was we it was really weird, because that's what I exe from the Latvia ended there.

Why ears ahead, but still The conservative side is toe the line where, where is he MRS read Amerika for so long that I really thought that we could disagree on things and get along, or is that America just not reflected? I have such a bias against. I hate the idea. Things were better in the past in their bad now, because that's it sort of cognitive, biased there, a lot of ways in which the past was bad, but it does it does feel like this. he's gotten worse or the ability to be the polarization has gotten worse? I think, because it has, I think we are you know we used to be able to get along because we all at least thought

we all believe believed in the bill of rights. You know I mean yeah, we're Americans, that's what makes this american hey, you do what you do and I'll do what I do and we believe in these bill of rights when we would violate those those rights for black serve NATO. Americans or whoever it would dark to grind and eventually people would be on the streets protesting and we would return back to the actual meaning not even talking about right. any more as as things that are are, movable and given by a higher power than government so govern, can't reach into them and changed them. I think it's what we ve lost is we don't have Unum anymore, we don't have what what is it we agree on. Well, I also

think the stakes feel higher because they are higher, because the federal government is more powerful and does more things. So it used to be easier for us. We could disagree and go our separate ways be friends and because your rules are not can be force on me and my rules are not can be forced on Europe, but now Whoever wins will be forcing their rules on literally every person who lay in this. Do you believe that there is, Cause, I don't believe in the Republican Party, but do you believe that, a reset of this system, because when, when you, Peter starts acting like this. You turn it off and turn it back on again in Ireland it on and turn it back off again and reboots back to the original programme to resetting Viennese accurately sergeant under a guy. Can we do to turn it on and turn turn it off and turn it on again Do you believe that we are so far from those factory settings that

ever is in charge. Is just gonna write the new code, yeah I mean I hear this unfortunately alot even from people on the right, they say. No. When we take power, we have to use it. We have two wheeled it in a very like their born you're talking about you know the ring, I think at the gather it's a gift we have to make. You cannot This tool is hostile to our views to our limited government views. We use it to accomplish limit limit government. You can use it to to get. the repeal bad laws to reduce regulations to get rid of pointless, rock receives, but don't don't a force don't create these new institutions to enforce your worldview that in four years will not enforcing your worldview and probably won't even be enforcing them in the meantime, because they'll be staffed by progresses. So don't like far- and I see a lot of people are on the right falling into this trap. I mean that the fact that trunk was not He did something I agree with in some things I disagree with, but I dont think anyone would say fairly that here

accomplished, a massive decrease in the size of the federal government right you know, so I did that we just try to get stuck in a work, so you have to do. I don't use the tools break the tools that will be. My advice a boy you're, my. How do you know, I'm just trying to think how you hold things together? My my culture, the culture war is terrible, terrible, you know go back we're talking only about the invisible hand of the market, the mark, it is just a tool and if you know, moral sentiments. If you're, not a moral society, the markets gonna, give you immoral, they that's what you want. So how do we have?

How do we change this? How do we change? How do we use the tools that we're not supposed to fear right? Two. to hold us together in a reset we have to. We have to cling to things that are not political and trotted jealously zealously guard against them becoming political. We, to think. Bout community in a healthy way, not enough not enough with the force, everyone to think one way or the other. We have to look outside the structure of government freer for your kind of social cohesion This pandemic has probably been the worst thing for that of all time, because the rule of this pandemic was don't socialize, don't keep those those. She'll ties, though, should fray, because we have do that for our health, There are many unhealthy things about about the structural funds. We have decided we'll be fine, that the government

snap its fingers at any time. If anyone anywhere is in danger of contracting over nineteen we're going to shut down all the schools and all the community services and you'll have to wear, masks and don't see anyone really bad. Really really really really bad people should stop like follow, those I mean, did that and then, of course, people following those. Are the people deal its don't follow those the mayor of every Deanna, blue City is not there still having birthday parties and weddings, etc. That is The pandemic has been toxic in in that way in that emanates it's right for, like a french revolution type thing honestly, I feel this saying: I'm I'm not really resentful or populist type person whatsoever, and even I am like off with their heads these people who who will order you to wear a mask but they're down there, not not going there. Yogi met galloped enemies, etc. really infuriates, maybe it's its absolute craziness yeah,

so why is I keep? I keep wondering what is the hold on people I mean we don't have anything because a social media, everything been destroyed. We don't have trust in anything anymore, and I dont know if it's is because of social media. Although I think the left played a big part of this but we also destroyed ourselves there. What there wasn't anybody who said? No, I I'm sorry true to the principle. I mean name the media organization that deserves any credibility right now There is no specific media organization, the dirt zirks credibility, people he too, but you know what this is. I still think this is a benefit of social media, because now I see on social media icy content from all sorts media organisations, and I get to me, you know read many. Perspectives and then decide which

I think, is right. I think the media environment of the pre social media error era used a lot of really bad policy really that foreign policy. I think a lot of wrecks. Intervention that was cheerleaders on the front page of the New York Times. In other places, that was unthinkingly celebrated. Now you have a lot of the non interventionist. Even it is on the right. There's a lot of healthy, Anti interventionist, sent him in dissident, non liberal media common at I even out of far weird weird far left stuff too, is sometimes has a lot of valuable haglund, Green Walled, Matterby, etc. Who have able to thrive in a non traditional media environment. That's part: that's part of the break up that social provided that it is in some ways were, were more informed, were capable of being less informed because there's a lot more balanced nation out there

sometimes about information is actually good information. How do we know? We don't want one person in charge of deciding? Oh, I don't know, I'm Mark Zuckerberg to be their own person. Charges citing a couple thought he Schreiber TED couple actually said to me their licence, Everyone should have a license. And right. We in the in the mainstream media vote on, who gets those licence now. I know tat. I was a bad idea and he was specifically directing it. I think now somewhat to me like shouldn't. Have one now psych whoo hoo who made you God, but like Italy newspapers cause the spanish American WAR right dead, yet coverage of the main every innovation in the communications is actually a lot of anecdotes about this. In my book there really funny every innovation in the communication space had the whatever the price Ps communication thing was saying: this will be the end of the world that the New York Times coverage of like radio when it emerges their worst of psychology,

to talk about how radio? Well, what work just all dead? Now we will never have a conversation with a human being and you'll be theirs. Mindless! Listening ape now the the phonograph than Times wrote an editorial calling for Alexander. Graham bell should be killed for them. the phonograph, that's funny every every kind of thing prompts this sort of panic and because all of these things have had some downsides, but I dont want to succumb to I mean I remember video where there was a whole freak out violent video games. You can make your kids into crazy. You know pillars. School shooters turns out that Even now. The research shows that not only is that not true, probably the tiny, small, small small minority of kids who are inclined to violence in Prague billy- are made less violent by violent video games because they have an outlet for their violence other than actually going out in committing real ILO cell whole idea was not true and and a Scalia wrote what is the greater

The Supreme Court opinion, in my opinion, of all time in the sorts, an acre California videogame Ban where he says these are expressive idea it's just that will Grimm's fairy tales are violent and obviously we can't ban those great decision that I would encourage everyone on the right who, in a kind of panic, bout social media to to read this and he said cooler heads should prevail on the opposite side. I have a story. You probably don't know when the some picture was put together by Edison. I have an original copy of the the Investment you know portfolio and in it he says the last couple of lines are: we will now for ever know, the truth because it will be recorded and why reporter says this. One person says this we'll know

because will have it on film. I got in order to know no worker. Smart people can be very stupid way. Let's talk bit about Donald Trump and church his being banned yeah. The ayatollah is not ban right which is embarrassing, humiliating and ridiculous that these companies have these different practices. No disagreement with our tromp was on social media for almost the entirety of its presidency. They kicked him off at the very end. I think they probably showed him honestly, with this probably more leniency than they would have someone not indisposition. I think there are multiple times he tweeted, something that if he were anyone else, they would abandon sure they also. I seen the court cases. There are people who sued Twitter saying Donald Trump tweets, lefty people reverie,

and violence, harassment or something and and were soon you telling you you have to take Trump off Twitter and twitter in its. Said we're not going to do that, and here is the relevant law section, two: thirty that that emu, we because of this law. We don't have to do that, which is because Donald Trump has tweeted about getting rid of this law right, but this law actually empower them to keep him on the platform. So, an example of another way that you know changing these kinds of regulatory things, I think, would be bad and also but wait Isn't that still just bowing to the sure from little groups right any bows, the president, the President of the United States, former president, beauty is no proof that there is no one who heads he used social media more effectively than him good or bad. She he got his ideas out

he did he used a very effective it now he could about it. I think it's. He could talk to the people any format he won't like he could be on tv all day. He could every every one point a comrade him if you are talking, but he loves to her. He wants to return to her ass, his favorite wine right and he they they finally said. Look. I think they should let him back on the platform. I've openly said that I dont I, I dont think their decision to take him down in that in the moment when they did, it was necessarily wrong. I attended the capital I covered it by the cap rights on January sex viewer. They I was their part of the class, was not there. I was there is a covering ETA. That's what you say right now. That was me in the eye and though the horns I d get. I got your gas interface because it was a cloud of tear gas and I couldn't get away from it, and I thought

myself, what how bad could this be time for a time ever real journalists, yeah no experience yeah, I'm tough. I can take data if several seconds later, I'm like crying I've as are accessible revel whose so it it was it look. It was a bad day. It wasn't an insurrection, they want in danger of overthrowing the government. I agree with that, but it was still a pretty bad now. You're seeing thing to do is Darien Brand Trump. He have calmed. I think he had a moral responsibility to lower the temperature and he didn't do that. Yeah. I think that was his. That was his real error. I thought that there was a turning point for a lot of Americans supported him yeah when he didn't immediately come out with the same reaction that I think Ninety nine percent of Americans had stop gas doc This has got to stop and they you had the I came to town, they ve smashed every window inside for the summer of protest right before that it.

it was horrible. It was condemned. It should have been condemned more strongly, obviously by people who are doing that, but then from supporters came to town and then they wrecked the places, not not every street, but they did not respect the buildings at all- and there was a There'S- a lip and a little bit of excuse making for that that doesn't set right with. Maybe you should not you shouldn't smashed the windows of places known, I think I'm just getting so frustrated and they see the left doing. It seems to be working for them, so I'm gonna do it too and that's you can't does not offer any one now. It does nothing for us on work. Let's talk a little bit about section to thirty two, because it's not you say it's not what everybody thinks it is what I think when everybody thinks it is, is government protection from litigation so Facebook is?

a publisher right which I can be sued. If we want something on the air, that's not right, I can be sued. They said we can have this if we're gonna get sued every time which makes sense, but that would make you there that would in you just be a publisher and not a editor right- is ever yeah once you start to edit. You have the right to be sued, cause your editing but the issue they have to do some everyone. I don't care who it is anyone who says now these platforms shouldn't do any kind of moderation. They should just you know beef. They dare not publishers, they should just allow anything. I will say you things and you say well, of course I want that taken down right. Everybody wants craziness right, and I agree with that, but The rules don't equally apply. I mean it's clear, there's an editorial opinion. It Josie editing its

editing for a certain opinion. Why should that be protected by the government? New York Times. Isn't I'm not bright, Honestly, if I wanted to square this, I would probably say: well- maybe other media company should have their. I dont like suing everyone, Willy nilly on it's a gift to I support reform. It's a gift to trial of lawyers where the most reliable democratic party people anyway. So we second, you thirty, it's not like the first amendment. It's not something sacred, they could change it if they want to. I just think the immediate consequence of changing it. It anyway would be less can normative speech on line, because if you subject them to greater liability, they're just going, take down more stuff they're going to or they are going to have, a system where only people, they trust, post at will and whose economic, the Zachary, you suddenly, I it's going to be the mainstream media is going to be blue checkmark people. There could be some system where only if you have a blue checkmark next to your name, can you put?

Everything else has to be reviewed by our attorneys to make sure we're not only sued for it. This does not benefit the right at all like It's so obviously bad that I can. Leave. Anyone has seriously consider doing it have sole. Let me Let me go to places where the it's quite obvious to some that it's bad, but you don't want to squash it and you don't. I don't I have always believed more speech, not less. Let let idea stand on their own? You know, I'm glad we didn't ban Hitler's writings. I know when I first read my comp, I'm like what, part of this did were the Germans surprised by when he started killing all the Jew right. He said it right here

and so I think you know you you want to expose people everything when see an end in two thousand. x the people who believed we went to the moon was, I think, six percent and I had seen the problem with credibility already with people, and I said that number is gonna grow and if we don't start being true to who we are its people, don't believe anything they'll believe anything. I believe That number now on we didn't go to the moon. I think is fourteen percent thirteen or fourteen percent, and she went on She went on is, I mean I hear stuff from Coonan numbed like art,. are you kidding. I believe that do you.

How do you do a? What do you do with a d? You do I struggle with this because I think there's a certain level of involvement in it. That is not quite so scary and is in some ways, though it seems weird, is like like people who believe in astrology or or it's almost it's almost like a video game, or something or or or of it like an online game where you're all your fine includes you're doing some kind of like detective story where it's not, really really believe it or is it just kind of something you're involved in and people have believed people believe cookie things for like forever people used to believe I was talking to a Steven pinker who's a Harvard a lot of great books. He points out that people used to kill animals and then look for signs like in their blood right there. There we used to torture animals for fun. We used to

people used to believe that that that you know they thought if birds landed on the trees in a certain way that meant the com it's coming and we're gonna like people have believed kooky things. now there's a political flavour to everything and she went on. Has this political flavoured that it feels like weird and new, but I dont know how many of these people actually, but maybe the most committed people, are the ones like being tricked by the FBI into doing something that the kidnapping plot the my oh, my god, I'm from Michigan original the more you read about that the kidnapping pot of the governor, the more you see it was just people sitting around complaining and then kind of got time.

Into it by these by federal officials where there and they used to do that. They did this by the way who out of islamic people every time there is a bust of a so called area. Isis of young person oysters, never met anyone from ISIS there right, a radical teen saying radical bad stuff online, and then they meet with a law enforcement officers like all you could purchase for me, and I know that you are you going to jail forever if I know there's no actual threat that was averted here and you get to throw me a clap, clap for the the feds no threat was averted. It's all there's a lot of actually. This is one thing I admire about trumpet. Actually in, and that has been good he's he's made the right more suspicious of what he calls oh yeah state for absolutely valid reasons they are there is there are and the more he said. I remember the first time he said things like, press is an enemy. The people I'm like right and then the more you watch their reaction. The Maria like! Well, you know,

kind of yeah, you know, and the each state when I first heard that I thought so conspiratorial but You understand it as now, just group of career, people that are politicians and- and you know, salaried people that just think I don't care with President says I will be here a lot longer than he is right. That's the deal state. It's not a star chamber. Right is just people who think they know better. How does a date department of dry the generals who are just feeding totally wrong information about the state of Afghanistan to president after president, after present, knowing they'll outlast this guy, knowing they cameo himself look bad. I am merely has just totally embarrassed himself but it is a deep state? What can you say it is so on that we ve had the Hunter Biden story,

and the media and everybody is turn that around and made you look like you're, not you, but let me right. Look like Conspiracy, theorist for believing it my own, and I think we should at least look into this. I mean there's how do we do? We navigate the world wherein you're right about. It's it's all these bad- I mean I. in some ways, pine for the days when you know we had is sit down together as a family or whatever and watches, show at eight o clock on Thursday night, because kind of brought all of us together. You know I mean I never thought of it. That way. I always thought this socks. I can't wait until you get it when you want to get it and watch it, how you want to watch it, but there was some: good things about that. And television was going to destroy us. You knows destroying the fabric of America, this

Does the same thing I agree, but it's steroids, young and it's so much faster people do need turn it off more. I when I say, don't panic I d, so don't mean make this your entire life and submit submit yourself to it. Turn your phone off, times log out. Using social media sites that are contributing to your own. Well, being you don't have to be on em some of the peace both the advocating the most for for restrictions are breaking up these companies when I think they are that their attics and they think everyone's inadequate. When you did like the social dilemma that Netflix documentary about how terrible eludes us all these acts. Google, people ex Facebook, p Will there the most online people of all their talking like they invented like their Manhattan project scientists? We invented the greatest most powerful, destructive thing ever and our warning you and it's so great and we're so great preventing it. But it's really bad for you. Maybe it's bad for you. Maybe if you or in a most people can walk into a casino. Not away their life savings, some people they would benefit. can't do it.

As their adding. they should. They should not, I think, were, I think, were of a point where we don't agree on. Some family went out and try to learn. The diamond, I know what I mean, try to try to tell people put your phone down for the day. they will all tell you, oh no, not like William. It ten years ago you good everything was vices, so my wife Alla time should like no, I have to be able to why why? I don't have a phone carry a phone, my fine. Why does everybody really after that? You tell them turn it off, and most people are like no gonna have to have to have this- must not healthy variable? yeah. We need to. I

These companies will seriously consider The implementing seeing That that make it your to turn them off some of the time. Maybe they won't, but there I now going to face regulation. They are going to be regulated one where the other, unless day, unless they can fix themselves into give some cells, we don't want to fix themselves either. No unerringly, the one they're gonna, be the ones who write it toil, but that won't, because I know Facebook support section, two thirty or are they know it's? You can put twitter out a vicious and right. You know also that the government Data on the we're talking about people worth a thousand years old a year is a german talk receive. Is I mean they talking? people about a high or anything these here eyes? They don't have any blue, is what they're. So there

it's gonna go to their friends in Silicon Valley and say why didn't you write some stuff? We knew. How would you regulated right after our did with Gm Brian, the Big three Otto may, every hearing where you have these senators yelling at Zuckerberg, endorsing around it Danny their embarrassing. They have no idea what you're talking about recent Blumenthal was yelling at someone from Facebook about fish, stuff, we sake get rid of Finster. take down finster you have to eliminate Finster finished it's not a feature that it's just having a fake instagram account. It's just something: users came out what they it's not a service they offer. They can and she's trying to explain them. Then you get, he saw all that's disabuse, anyone of the notion of his legs, competently, yours genes and congressmen. Johnson. I think that was talk to a general and he said, They were talking about the bases I think the Philippines

and he said, the general are you concerned at all, if we too many people on that side of the island? the island will capsize, the general without mercy and be with no sir, that's, not anything? We ve, we ve considered yeah are the people running our government are not good. A lot of people all running and I think, to a greater extent. Working at these companies are not good their hostile to our values there hostile to classically liberal values, free speech, values and is very bad. But what can we really sleep realistically, do about it, doesn't it's a lot from a policy standpoint, and I don't want to make things worse and I just don't want to give power back to the media environment. We had before this because for every bad thing we have now, I honestly

was worse when I was a young person before that, the deed dominance of the people who really hate you who we disagree with your values, who won't let you hear a single different perspective and just want you to listen to them. Those are the p but that would come to power again. If we broke up these companies? Let me ask you less question, no fear of sure you, I'm sure you're involved in crypto currents, yeah. That's another place where the power or is it be, are actually talking about making the post office a bank the up? I mean, if that's not a thousand year old thinking, I dont know what it is. They ve got to stop crypto currency because- they lose all role once once you don't control currency. you you lose all

vast amounts of power crypto. It could very well be the solution to some of the problems were talking about. I am not an expert in the subway I very interested in. It is frankly not a lot of my colleagues at reason magazine right about Zack Weissmann. Mueller is someone. People should look up if they're interested in this, and he writes very persuasively about how this could be the future, a future where there is less central control, where there is privacy, where a lot of the things were talking were, were worried about concentration can be it es virus the decentralized internet it is past and so they are then that's all gonna be innovation. That's not grieve governed. Doing anything, can best that'll, be the garment not doing anything right. Debt? That could be solution to a lot of what we're talking about generally thinking. I can't get a feel from you whether you are hopeful for the future or yours is like we're noon. I think I'm awful for the future. I think, tend to get better. Our political conversations have gotten worse and the government always gets bigger, but there's a

a mortal life and we should we should enjoy that, and it's been a bet, it has been a bad two years. I dont think I dont think things can be as bad as they were last two years. I've been wrong before we will said last year. That's all they said. Twenty twenty one can be as bad as twenty drawn. I fort my personal fourteen days to saw the curve and are over that. Let me tell you I am going to enjoy my life. I don't care why doktor voucher or any other health official says ever again, so We will, it will be better. We will make it better if it has to be done us. Thank you think. so much. The name of the book is tech. Panic why we shouldn't fear Facebook and the future,

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