So over the hill. Three of the show, spanning eight years more than five hundred guest two years filming on location and a crew and now more than six years, is a pot cast I have been asked one question over and over and over so who's your favorite guest, so when you do what I do learn quickly to dodge the answer to that question for one you can't win for any name, he dare to offer you're simultaneously snubbing hundreds and, if I'm blessed, to keep doing this long enough, thousands of other people. more importantly, if you're really paying attention truthfully, There is no such thing as a favorite guest. I don't do this

to be entertained or to fall in love or make new friends or to have favorites? I do it because I love doing it and because it's a bit like my living laboratory, it's it's not about who I like best, but rather, who I have learned from, who has left me changed and on that level, would have come to believe. As you learn something. If you allow yourself to remain open from every single person it is on screen as it is in. Mike in a studio on location, so it is in life. But as I sit here today, Having just learned of the passing of a man who has become, as our producer lindsey often reminds me. The single most referenced guessed by me in the history of the show milton glaser, I can admit to one truth:

over the same span of time, much as I have been profoundly inspired humbled and awakened and learn more than any book or cool or a course of study has taught me. There have been very few guess who, when they walk at the door. Left me thinking to myself. I lived there. Life milton glaser was at the top of this very short list born and raised in the bronx. He discovered what we come his life's work and never in his eighty or so years of building on that veered from it to make things that move people those are the words he shared with me. as soon as these words were offered in the classic glaser rasp. I could feel every

now my body come alive with residence. Me too, I felt me to my whole body, just saying, with recognition and residents Mitchell milton me to glaser list of a common many in the world of design and media and education, the stuff of legends, launching a design agency put in studios and nineteen. Fifty four with a bunch of friends who he graduated cooper union with he would change the face of commercial illustration of art and design the fiend I heart, and why logo he did that a tribute to the city he loved so fiercely at a time when it was on the verge of bankruptcy of crumbling underneath glaser, wanted to do his part to help people re. Imagine it to see the way he knew it to be the way it was in his heart which probably explains why he was also a founder new york magazine that iconic bob Dylan rain

herr poster, with more than six million copies, imprint, glaser again, thousands of other works of art, posters, brands, product packaging, restaurants, you name it glaser, who has been so much of it and mountains where he it's been seen everywhere, from the halls of global industry to local pubs to the museum modern art in new york city, the george pompidou centre in paris in two thousand and four he received cooper, hugh national design, museum lifetime, achievement ward, he received it. national, no metal of arts of war from president obama in two thousand nine, the first graphic designer ever to be given dishonour the man had his own tight, face. Glaser Stenzel,

brilliant mine and end the artful hand and the impact that they would have didn't stop at making, though he also taught for more than five decades. He shared his wisdom, his lens on everything, from life to art, to beauty, to work to love with thousands of students, many of whom have now gone out into the world, to make their own lasting marks just this devotion to craft too, making, meaning to the creator. have been noticing of beauty to his commitment to tee, giving back to the work. It was the choices that he made about who and what matter to him the deep, sustained commitment to living. If on his terms and never allowing himself to be boxed into anyone else's expectations in any domain of life to working and playing and spending time, his wife shirley, who here weD in nineteen fifty seven and to whom he maned married until the day,

He died at age. Ninety one on friday, by the way which was also magically in classic laser style, his birthday, The when a friend of mine reach out to me back and twenty thirteen and mentions setting an old friend of glaciers from back in their ashram days, and would I like an introduction? I nearly fell over yes, yes, please, a few months later, I found myself along with our film crew. Show me back dead in the front room of glaser studio, setting up for a conversation that I never wanted to end. Nor did the crew we were transfixed. We'd have stayed longer, but time was tight. He deep at work on a new show for museum? Did I can he was a before at the time during This wide, ranging conversation we talked about his

punishing journey to the teacher who validated his choice of happiness over safety, about what drives him continue to create how he chooses who and what to work on? We talked about the difference between the urge to make and the desire to create beauty, the role of formal art educate, in and the difference between a calling and a career? We all set fascinating conversation about the role of computers and technology and art and design, and how its affecting our ability to create. He has a very unusual. Take He actually uses computers almost every day, but he he never actually touched them. You'll have to Listen to understand this, take the depth of his generosity.

thought left me not only reexamining my own choices but yearning to reconnect with something that laid all too dormant for me for far too long, my own desire to make not just media but stuff and meaning to work with my hands and be able to step back and say yeah. I did that my brief time with no way. Her left me change. It not only planted the seeds but also offered a model of what a re imagined life might look like. You may not know blazers name, but if you ve been alive and taken mention to the world even remotely for more than a hot minute, you and your life, your heart, your mind had been touched, either directly by his work and very likely by the work of the thousands of artists, designers, educators, makers and founders, many of whom would become students and then carry on that legacy.

Of making things that move. People never bound The ideas and insights of this giant, but rather inspired and invited to step into their own truths. to make their own things that move people to create beauty, however defined through the lens of their own beating heart, and there shared mind. So what kind of a heavy heart but also really alive and celebration of his life and legacy excited to share with you. This best of conversation, you will notice that the audio quality is a bit for it, not quite our studio quality. This, as I mentioned earlier, was actually film on location and fittingly joyfully towards the latter parts. You'll also hear the sounds of little children laughing. In the background glaser studio, it turns out where we filmed. It was a stand alone, how's that abutted the playground for a local new york city public elementary school.

On any given day, you could open the window, and here the energy of these little kids filled the steed As we would learn on this day, that was part of the magic part of the night. I hope you enjoy this conversation, I'm Jonathan fields- and this is a good life project the How does a I even work where it is creativity come from? What's this where, to living longer, ted radio, our explores the biggest questions with some of the world's greatest thinkers. They will prize challenge and even change. You listen to and purist head ted radio, our whatever you get your PA. So, the ten percent happier podcast has one guiding philosophy. Happiness is still that you can learn. So why not embrace it? It's hosted by dan harris journalists who

a panic attack on national television and then send out on this journey of transformation and he's now on a quest to help others also achieve peace and happiness, and every week Dan talked you top scientists, meditation teachers. Even the odd celebrity in wide ranging conversations that explore topics like productivity, anxiety and lightness, psychedelic and relationships. The interviews cover everyone from bernay brown to cerebral ass to SAM Harrison more. I love learning from his questions and experiences and incredible guess think of listening to ten percent happier as a work out for your mind, fine ten percent happier where every listen to pot casts library. is supported by the economists who the world seems to be moving faster than ever: climate economics, politics, a and culture. after you look, events are unfolding at a rapid pace and it's hard to stay on top of it, which is why I love that now, for the first time, you can get a one month, free trial of the economist. So you won't miss a thing I have literally

reading the economist who want to safer decades. I love that it covers more than just economics and finance as you'll find coverage on topics from politics to science, to technology, even arts and the environment. The economist offers this global perspective with really incredible clarity and deeper analysis, so you can dive in two specific issues or catch up on current events. I was just checking out this article on the changing landscape of tech jobs for recent computer science. Granted everything is changing so fast? It was a real eye opener and with the economists free trial, you'll get access to in depth independent coverage of world events through podcast webinar an expert analysis as soon as you sign up, if you're interested in subjects like this go to economist dot com, slash project for full access to the topics that matter too new and original analysis as events unfold, that's economist, dot, com, slash project or just click. The link in the show notes to start your one month, free trial with the economist today, because the world won't wait

so we're sitting here today in a room surrounded by incredible art, credible design problem Years and years of work, and the agency because almost don't know where to die then, but when my curiosities is where did this all come from, curious to know what I think about your body of work going way way way that before it, there was a body of work. My way you like us- What is this? Where does the seat of this come from. are you gonna, continue to ask me questions that cannot be answered I my best, but I have no idea where it comes from the table I do know, is that, after a while begin to realise, a how little you know when everything I am too-

how fast the brain is and how it encompasses everything you can imagine, but more than that everything you can't imagine and what is what happened central to this is the impulse to make things which seems to me to be a primary characteristic. They were being the desire to make things whenever they turn out to be and then supplementary to. That is the desire to create beauty which is a different but analogous activity, so the urge to make things probably. survival device. The urge to create beauty is something else, but only at least something else because, as you know,

There are no unrelieved advancing human experience. You the ep, upset this before, but beauty at the creation of it is a survivor mechanism. There was something about making things beautiful and we sometimes call that art that has something to do with creating a commonality between human beings so that they don't kill each other and the whatever that impulses and wherever it comes from. It certainly is contained within every human being over that. Sometimes the opportunity articulated occur sometime. It remains dormant for a life tat, you just don't get. They shouted at birth, I been very lucky. I imagined myself

say maker of things from the age of five. I realise that to make something was correct Less and I never stop by just kept making things my life, whatever they were forever category, you chose to put them in. Whether they attain the status of official status of art is another story, but that is said about the convention, but its desire to make things is a profound human characteristic agree. Was there the thing that happened at the age of five or was it a gradual awakening around then that you seem to really keen on a moment. Well, I have a chance story about them, which is why I feel a reluctant to tell it to get back up until the somebody that sometimes unfilled

But what really happened that this was an event in my pants, we're going out a grew in the bronx. My parents were going out, the sun ceremonial occasion and left me at home, to be taken care of by my cousin, who must have been spain or seventeen years old who came to the house. My parents left, and he was there carrying a brown paper bag and after we said down in the living room, he said he was he a bird emma. I thought immediately that he had a bird the bag, and they said yes and he reached back and pulled out a pencil. and he drew a bird other cited the bag and for one reason or another ethic, The first time I ever seen anybody draw some

had looked like the object depicted by midnight scene, then came the garden, drawing things that didn't look like a bird, but but I suddenly realized that you could create life, but you could create life for the pencil and about it the bag, and they was truly a miracle my recollection, although people always telling me that memory is just the device to justify your present, I really it was like receiving the stigma that I suddenly realized tat. You could spread your life in bad thing life and I never stop said that at five my course was that they never deviated. I never stopped

Aspiring were working in a way that their that provided the opportunity to make things that, if you did right most people, hmm, which is interesting suleiman because you, you grew up in. Since we post oppression and world war, two in the bronx and there were certainly ample need to create moments that touched people and and work that touch people But also, I wonder at that time in our country's history, whether and in your mind whether doing this was something we said. This is something that I could get paid for and build a career around, or this is just this is what I need to do, and this is my service, well a characteristically I had a very good dynamic. my mother,

relentlessly probate. Nobody think I did. I just thought everything I did was marvellous and life. I was worried about my making a living. It was very reluctant to even think that I might choose a life in the arts because he wanted me to pursue a life that would basically have some financial security and a kind of simple idea, but during the depression very prevalent. But there was a time when making a it was really tat. He had a dry cleaning sore and I used to deliver orders. They often that consisted of carrying forward the codes up six flights of stairs and getting a nickel tip. Couldn't imagine, and life of belarus will be much more difficult, but at any rate, be

innovation. My father's resistance of my mother support was perfect violence because I learn. to overcome resistance and was convinced by my mother that I could do anything ideal, psychic environment for accomplishing something in the world What led you to run. In your mind, your creating art. Do you remember the first glimpse of the the experiences of undoing this for me, and I love it and there's something that I'd just drawn to. Verses, people are responding till it s, interests and complicated question, because I can using my drawings.

by means of ingratiating myself with other, people I mean I was. I was the class authorised so designated when I six years all. But it's funny all true were happy school. I was always the class iris with funny idea. And I would do drawings as a kind of service activity for my friends, mostly drawings, of beckett girls, at a time when We didn't quite know what that was, but I always saw myself has been a facility of other people's needs. And that very point. The way I like the fact that I had status a position in life. And I could also be of service in a stranger

the thought of it as being observed band that I did something that gave me some privilege in that group that designation It was a useful want to me in terms of developing my own sense who I was still went We reach a point where you decide that what this is something that I could potentially do beyond high school? This is something I can build my life around us. like you had already in your mind, that decision. When you were five or six the thing at the work out the details, absolutely there was no. There is no doubt in my mind what I was going to do ever. How do you feel and the place of deciding what that outlet, It's gonna be. How do I take this and am and the classic

As you know- and I know this in my soul and somewhere or I have to make a have to create after I have to make an app to create beauty. This is what I'm here to do, and there are lot of different directions. You could have gone with that. You couldn't gonna find fine art. You can go so many different direction. The what led you to choose this, path. It you think, you're asking questions that are fundamentally unanswerable about. I would I would say that it didn't matter to me as long as at the at categorical distinction between the artist nonsensical stupid, in fact, but useful to society for one reason or another I might have become a painter I might have become addressed designer. I might have become an architect all those possibilities I do I want to make things and then circumstances, began to intervene and interrupt that they decision and opportunity.

which I was willing to cease, regardless of whatever the consequences. So, I am Tell you the story which has a very instrumental in that decision ever, even though it is a part of my official range of stories. It was so profound. I I have to tell it just it to express. How were how twenty seconds can change your life? when I was in junior high school, had the option to take the entrance examination to either brung science, which is a great new york school oil, The high school music art is another great new york school

neither of which are sufficiently appreciated file, they shape the silly. These are both incredibly important institution in terms of new york's population and environment. And that I have a science teacher who was very encouraging for me to enter into science. I very good science and he wasn't mate. In the science and the was a base of about that, because I didn't want to tell him that guy, but today the entrance examine bay. On the same day, I took the entrances affirmation device for music about. and the next day when I back to school.

He was in the hallway, as I was walking about, and they said there I wanted. I feel as though the jig is up he's he's going to find out. I took the wrong exam and he said, come to my office sit. As I was sitting there, he said I hear you took the exam music about eyes. Oh yes,. then he reached over and they reached into his desk and pulled out a box of french candidate crayons fancy expensive bucks. and he gave it to me. They said, do good work and the Can't tell us nowhere cry because it was such a profound

the example of somebody who adults, adult authority figure, sophisticated man, who was willing to put aside his arm. Desire for something in his own there direction for my life and recognize me a pirate in who had made a decision and he was instead of just simply acknowledging it. He was encouraging it with this. Incredibly gracious and generous gift, and I never forgot that story. I you know I was at about forty dinner is all, but that kind of the thing about it that always astonishes you. Your light is that moment I couldn't have taken more than two minutes was totally transformative about my view of life, my view of others, my view of education.

My view of acknowledging the other and there it was a very important moment for me. It's It's interesting to me also apparent because in may everyone says what does a parent want for their child, what they want them to be happy or, but but above that, I think before that we want them to be safe, sure you there and then we want them to be happy anything. So we have this kind of ongoing, come station in our heads. This may make them happy, but this. May make that is more likely to make them safe ourselves, There's this risk that we're sort going and and- and So it's interesting when you share the story, because I think of that person your plane a similar role and saying you know what I am choosing happiness and whenever will happen will happen. Both you learn more more work to everything exists,

At once, what its opposite, so the contradictions of life were never ending and they somehow the mediation between these. Opposite of a game of light hm, I'm asked often I am sure you are also through your teaching. What, if I choose wrong, what what if I choose wrong, And now you know what a fine weather that wasn't the right in and anything Listen conversation because you know, I think, the more I Think about it. The more I explore life less and less. I believe there is a wrong choice No, it's more. It's more important to choose, just see what happens. You can also develop.

Around understanding by saying what choices you may then, you know some people, you know simply complaining about their life wrong choices. They made them at one point: you say them stop making those with choice man, some first acknowledge that you may stupid choices and then see. If you want to do something. baby, don't. Evidently, you dont know so satisfied then your stupid chosen- I I've been without being arrogant about it, but you realise that the first step is always in the broader sense took abolish what is, and that's very hard to do it s very hard to do. That is what it's about me. Drawing an attempt. This is one of them.

To that I made the great benefits of drawing, for instance, is that when you look at something you see it for the first time and you. Spend your life without ever seeing anything now. Met yet global private aviation leader is known for personalizing every detail of your travels because net, yet standard is not just meet their definition of perfection, it's to exceed yours. discover more at net jets, dot com get my pocket It supported by name. So it's that time in the year were a lot of oak start to think about their fitness schools getting their bodies moving myself included. I actually recently started playing a lot more attention to how I was fuelling my body and also really came to realize it. I was carrying a lot of information in my body and potential disease risk in the form of way. So I want

an intelligent and sustainable and supportive way to increase my health lose the waiting inflammation and just feel better. and new is just a great solution for this one that I have turned to numerous times over the years to help me accomplish wellness and when it makes sense, wait management goals as well, so new uses science and personal is asia, and so you can not just intelligently manage wait for the long term, but also really learn from their psychology based approach that helps you build better habits and behaviour set are easier to maintain and the best part you decide how new fits into your life, not the other way around, based on a sample of four thousand two,

Did seventy two numerous ninety eight percent say new, helps change their habits and behaviors for good, and that is because new actually helps you understand the science behind your choices and why you have certain craving. So if you feel like you been lacking the knowledge to make the changes, you wanna see, try out new, so you can start making informed choices and start to really change the way that you think about weight, loss and wait. Management and wellbeing take the first step and sign up for your trial today at noon. Dot- com- that's an oh, oh, am dot com to sign up for your trial today or just click. The link in the show notes Let right it is supported by I heard so I am always looking for new ways to get more nutrients into my daily routine, to promote

all around better well being and recently I have discovered, I urge a one stop shop that offers the best curated selection of wellness products at incredible values. Then everything from vitamins and sports supplements to bath products can care and make up. I had so.

much fun, exploring their website and finding things had a really wanted, like thorns, calcium, magnesium, melick capsules and vitamin d three k to both of which support, bone and muscle health and immune function. I urge that just made it so easy to find what I need, because you can search by category or even wellness, concern and best of all, I feel safe, knowing that every product is tested, verified and sold directly by. I urge so it's time to get your health in check with. I urge our listeners get twenty two percent off your first order. When you use code good life at I urge dot com, that's twenty! Two percent off your first order at I h e r b, dot com, promo code, good life or just click. The link in the show notes and use a promo code. Good life choose. I urge because, while miss matters it is interesting that has as you're scaring this in the background, were starting to hear, the voices of children

laying outside. As is the perfect compliment like this topic, because it what better representation of being here and seeing, see in front of you that window this bag and if we could carry that fellow with so many people, I feel some way we will lose all we do. and you'll have to I mean I do I I I kids it a lie. I know the answer. They say I don't know the answer to anything I mean have to constantly be tethered to what you deflect and life and what you don't pay attention to and all the things that you at sea and all the preconceptions that you do have about everyday and those preconceptions. Basically blurry revision. It's very hard to see, what's in front of you

Yeah, I remember hearing once when I told them that I couldn't draw the response that it's not that you can draw is that you can hey. Everyone can draw. You know it's it's about. Can you actually see in front of you, rather than seeing sort of like the image that has already been planted. In your mind about what it's supposed to reflect. The true remember, It's a shame that, educationally that I've been teaching for an awfully long and because of some extended technology, the computer and so on, and the concern to mass of programmes and saw that this most fundamental act of anyone in an hour the arts, which is the desire to

understand what they're looking at, which involves looking sing the brain transformation The neurological path that moves from the brain to the hand What said the hands The king s, remit, a book called drawing is thinking and. That has been omitted from on education in most places that all places at a great loss to work understanding, even when you manage the technological. Needs that you have to produce thanks for the society, the the that drawing

as a way of developing your ability to think doesn't seem to be sufficiently conclusive. Yeah and it's so interesting for me also as as a writer in time I will do my riding on a computer and then had a playwrights tended to step out, and then I started taking out a little mosque in, but with me, and I would just sit somewhere in a part that would go to your bar just sit and just right, longhand at first a head start, because I'm really lost the muscle ass to be able to actually layer and then they start to realize- was that that that change actually really chance. My output, What can what channel threw me onto the page when I was writing by hand was very different creatively than what came through my fingers aren't just keeper, and that's that surprised me. It really did absolutely

we think changes everything at there are no independent, the some in their eyes peter everyday. Now, I'm about the computer, but I never touch it. and I have somebody at my side by say- make that big, a bait and switch back. But I also use the computer write down to a series of prints for a show going to have next year and I use a computer like a lithographic press. I spent years doing with biography, and I just think of the computer as a press that operates at a different speed, because when you do a lithograph, you have to Do a drawing assets prepare a stone, transfer the stone print, the proof look up approve, all of which

Take you a day at an order to get five different. Color proves that it'll take your month to do a print. I can do all that in a day on the computer, by simply being able to the term. What color goes on? What color men on the computer itself, rather than the old technology, but if I didn't know that all technology, the computer be useless to me. So it's a dead. The interaction but also the need for speed is a separate issue entirely because in the case of work that you do on the computer, speed is effective, because it's an economic factor, but the world of high speed is irrelevant tonight. So you have two very different objective. There I mean it's interesting. I recently I'm there's a letter press. about in brooklyn

I recently went out there and took his last learn how uses let her presence. Maybe they had to go and find from the fifties and bringing them yet like really good machines and something so. and then, when you sit there any choose the paper, and you made the blocks you now and in the war. Just like your wallet rolling back now with it up and you feel it it's it's such a different process, and it's so you on? If you wish different land so dearly it's. This is very wrong. Deep thing, that's I could spend all day writing our trading on your computer, but I won't get that you know. It's it's an amazing thing to move back to these ways. To me it is at end. The virtual world has created a very different kind of nervous system for people.

Who spent their life in that world, and it produces a different sense of appropriateness, time, a morality, ethics, so behavior. I was there. I cited before. But I was at dinner with my wife and we sat down next to a table with four people, each had cell phones, and they were all talking to somebody outside the restaurant cans nursing. for what's going on there I mean why would you be talking to somebody outside the restaurant at that even looking at the people at your table and when did that become appropriate? However, if you were on the telephone for a meal, with four different people talking before others, ass in when I was growing up right in being cut? sensible man, but only as a comprehensible. Now it's

avoidable, and then, when I was a kid you weren't, if the phone rang and the family was having dinner, you can pick up the phone wrote you never somewhat shifted that perception up. What's the right thing to do in its way, something really weird about it, who are these people in the streets? Talking too, were in the middle of traffic as they try to cross of it what is it that makes every conversation so urgent that can't wait. Delay stop the crossing a bit At the end, you know I I, but I think what a cause. I agree. I think what that technology does, on the one hand, and connect it flattens the world which is wonderful. I can talk to people in different continents she found so it opens up this cultural divide, but at the same time it often disconnects us from the people at the dinner table right in front of mature. I know what you're talking about people constantly on is that you're free to me meant that the biggest

created by the biggest ideas. Don't come to me. When I'm working hard getting them becoming a step away from the work. You know what I mean when I'm in the woods when I'm just when I pray passes and day, and they got concerned because were feeling every possible pause with, can connect and what does that gonna do to what we're capable of creating the war? Will Don't know I mean that the data thing we don't understand. You never know fish. What does know. What's in water, we don't know what this is doing to the union I feel the human behaviour at any of it. We know changing the window, it'll be a profound change. It will be what it was, but we don't know what the nature of that will. Finally be. It probably have some benefits and significant drawbacks, but it is just emerging, be you are creating a new.

Kind of person there and the lily rewiring the brain, a curious when you, when you look at the work that you are creating, and when you, when you start to make decisions about what Am I gonna? Do I'm not gonna do what what's important to you about what you choose to work on? What I saw the qualities that that drawing to work or took that light, you up- and this is something I wanted I wanna do- will be involved in. Well, that's a year. a question is a little more specific I myself, if somebody came with a project you know and any yet you're, is he personally that limited time and you need say yes or no sorry, my curiosity is in your

had what is it about? Is it about a project? Is it a product or work, or is it the team or the individuals or the opportunity for you to explore something just itself that may not be related even to it? That makes you say. Yes, it's a dialectic. I don't think it's one thing. I don't think it's over one thing: it's like: why do you like this person or business and that- but I don't like this and this and that I say the crush of human affection is so complicated. What do you like said people and don't like other people go into ro when they say yes, yes, yes, no, not enough! You ve already made up your mind. Along with a video chat, enabled sort of in my book principles or my ten principles were the first one is always work, people alike, and that's it

oh, really simple minded but fundamentally profound by me. You can't it- and this is not entirely true. You can't work of people like sometimes. There's. A kind of dislike that urges you to overcome Only material should some slow to certain extent. I would say that now getting workers a couple with a combination of factors, one as a The first thing is: if the work is harmful, I dont do it I mean do no harm, is, I think, a principle that does not only apply to the medical profession. what you said to urge people to do what is harmful to them is something that I don't feel comfortable doing. The other thing is well: they there's really

We need to make something good out of it as opposed to fulfilling a task. Professional life is very often at the technical to artistic life, because in professional life you basically repeat what you ready now, you're preacher previous successes as like marketing marketing is the enemy of art, because it is always based on the past. but thou art is always base in the future, but its very often basin transgressions. So when you do something that basically is guaranteed to succeed, you are basically closing the possibility for the scope. So there's that, and I do jobs fairly purely for professional reasons, because I know how to do certain things. That will be Never work in that. Serves me as a professional. Do jobs- or I don't know what I'm doing, the projects where

I know what I'm doing. I'm doing that now for Show that gonna have cincinnati next year, either had to do a series of landscape prince. doing them on the computer, impart I'm taking drawings and there's subjecting them to the computer to see if I can produce something that doesn't look as though was generated by the computer, because you, the computer, is a dangerous instrument because it shapes capacity the sand what's possible, the computer is like a apparently submissive servant that turns out to be a subversive that ultimately gains could fall of your mind. The computer is such a powerful instrument that it it defines. Afterward

what is possible for you and what is possible is within my computer's capacity, and, while it seems at the beginning like this incredibly gifted and talented service, actually has a very limited intelligence brain is so much of the esters than the computer, but the It is very insist about what it's good at. Before you know it, it's it's like being with somebody who has bad habits, you sort of fall into the bad habits and it begins to dominate the wave of what is possible so now I wouldn't because I never touched a beer- I'm taking advantage of it to have by doing things that are uncomfortable for it to do so, you have to give me more

Well, I'm freezing it like it were a printing press instead of alabama advanced electronic instrument, I was fascinating- asserts essentially burn a of role reversal there instead of being on by. When start getting so complicated, buying a home complicated Home finance is certainly not a walk in the park. Raising kids, it's a lot, then there's servants. One of my policy doesn't cover this or what, if I have to make a claim in the middle of the night, good news stay farm is there for your? What, if you can reach them? Twenty four seven file, a claim on the state. Far mobile, laugh or simply call your agent to ask anything. So even if life gets tricky, insurance doesn't have to be like a good neighbour state form. Is there call or go state formed our com for a quote today.

when you think about how people are being trained. There's been a lot of really interesting, pushed back these days against art, school formal on education. As buddy, whose an artist designer design a teacher curious just what your feelings are What would be made by push back the risk of many people say it's it's not necessary. Yeah, lesser sort, formal art, education- that, for what purpose for in one or two I have become gonna. Your craft become good, so that you can build a living doing it. You have to separate making a living, which is why, activity and one that everybody has to face within. Arching ones, understanding of world. and also providing. instrumentality for people to have

they said earlier, a common purpose and a sense of transformation, I went up to the morgan library the other day Oh, it's called out master drives her master drawings and a case, Ass, the resources on their backs never seen pencil What color of landscape. and though I was transformed My world was at large at this ancient age, I'm still capable of astonishment of feeling, my god. I've never had this experience before, and that is what the us provide the sense of at large,

And the sense that you have come to the end of your understanding either of yourself or of other things. So that's why I was invented them. That's why practitioners have occasionally spirits in making such objects feel that they are part of. larger issue than the immediate context of their life, their part of human history. Those thinking. for any reason cause a friend had recently died, it's nice to feel that you left something behind when you. Which is felt fascinating because on. Some forty, seven and married, have a daughter and

it's interesting that I find myself now thinking about legacy. You're still believe in that have many decades left to create work. But it's creeping into my every day and so This uprising in managua worry about me and I you don't necessarily up the big companies. This legacy that so given that right that overtones too rapid. But that I like what we were doing good work. I maybe something about that: the simplicity of that statement, and there I think, I'm not sure, but I think was for you said. love and work. That's all there is pretty much true.

Near monopoly on that. there. I need to spend more time on its interests me so then in the name of this project is, is the good life project and its exploration of you know. doing nobody pieces are an and one of the questions that I always ask when I, when I had an opportunity, sit down. Someone unlike you, is in in your experience when I offer to live a good life. What comes up significant life, The first was significant to home. A man there.

If you think thinking in terms of the history of the world, as one thing is thing in terms of the family that manage to grow up and support itself in, live a full life, do no harm, life and significant. Some more than their heroic figures in history. It a neighbor for real

well heroism or real importance, or for some illusion of status. I was thinking about the pope, this unexpected modesty, who am I to judge in a condemn another human being or another, about gay people, and I was thinking yeah. Well it s a good girl who are you to condemn anybody else? We elevate these people to heroic roles are significant arose. Just another guy living tried to make sense of getting older die.

that's it we're all in the same boat sound, but it was shocking. They hear that coming from someone who d been anointed with this, illusionists the idea that this person Somehow was worn away then, every other day, I'm sorry. It's a self serving delusion, but obviously useful, because it persists that much and steel, Do you see a good life and a significant life as one and the same? How are you suspicious of some words like that. A bad, though, also what they link to pray. I guess I feel about you can't take anything at face value.

I have to go beyond the superficiality of existing believe my favorite quote certainly as a closing of the mind, and so I don't know what a good life is. A good life for me certainly has has been the things that I think are important friendships and I have people I love them. So. in a marriage that is enduring and continue to endure, teaching children dying from up well, over half a century, the feeling that whatever you no has possibly being transmitted and shared.

Outside? Of that? I would know how to define and good luck. And, as you know, some people seem to be there Some men heroes to another I mean yeah, right, What's so interesting man said I've asked this question now were over a year enter this exploration. And then initially, I would have guessed that, after about ten eleven twelve conversations, there would be a lot of repetition. There hasn't been bureau's best interest, which is real. It's been fast. I haven't made said the ones is, so you need to everybody's equal. One is the most recurring idea, though, service is In various ways that idea, I'm not only for my sincere gratitude in very Under by various men, sir, there too,

was that the recur in different ways in different ways. Well and the one most certainly in terms of gratitude. I feel enormously grateful for the life I had left I've had it extraordinarily easy life. I would say. I'd benefit enormously from the generosity of others, and I been able to live well and do what I aspire to do and make some things that I think are useful and that you have to be grateful and whatnot, especially when you realize the about the pain and suffering that the world is full of.

The grief from her while I thank you so much for this conversation, I'm grateful to you for your time and your your wisdom and your uranus out the year series goes well. Thank you. I got a piece in it thank you so much for listening, and thanks also to our fantastic sponsors, who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today, show notes and while you're at it, if you ve ever ask yourself What shall I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it add, a spark, a type dot com. That's s p, a r K, e t, Y p e dot com or just click. The link in the shadows

And, of course, if you haven't already done so be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app, so you never miss an episode and then share share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode, that you would love to turn into a conversation share it with people and have that conversation is when ideas become conversations that lead to action. That's when real change takes hold see you next time The.