Working with our US partners number seven five day, I am performing a handful more shows to the end of the year, leading up to my phone comfortable, special taping in San Francisco and generate tween, I've LOS Angeles on the twenty fourth and then coming coming weeks. The Reschedule Phoenix show and SALT Lake City and there's a couple: a morsel, gotta fun comfortable to her dot com to get ticket links and info. And now here's the nurse Community Court Board a committing. The barrier writes a fellow committing a dear friend all was walking to his car at sixteenth and mission in San Francisco, and he was stabbed in the heart and stomach the savage around three a Monday. He had two surgeries and is on his way to recovery it s a

hospital he runs, a weekly open MIKE and has already been struggling financially. His name is Jamie Philips, a k, a frosty noakes. We set up a go, find me forum. That can be found by going to go fund me dot com and searching helping out frosty Noakes man get better dude. Next, we are guys at get hot sauced dot com, and we heard provide the experience of making your own huts us to the masses. We provide make your own hot, sauce, kids, that include everything you need to make three bottles of hot sauce and your kitchen.

Make your own spicy mustard and catch up or coming soon, and they just started their news: private labeling venture label, your sauce dot com, they create custom labels and about a variety of hot us. Barbecues us catch up for events, weddings, gifts, giveaways, anything else. You need a spice things up. Our hot sauce donation pages now live as well. We donate bottles of hot sauce to local food kitchens. For every case of hot us, we sell check out get hot sauced dot com. You know a little bit of a juxtaposition between a poor guy, getting stabbed and hats us, but again frosty nodes, get better, dude, glad you're. Ok, all right! This episode is David goitre.

Was probably written several things that you watched, whether or not you knew that he wrote them, but we'll get it all that he's promoting. The final sees no divinities demons preparing this Saturday, the twenty fourth at eight p m on stars. So, if you're not coming to the committee showed I'm doing then watch dementias demons. Here's nurse packets, number, seven, fifty with David Glare, Kate, air, please rule the thing nor murder, star com, and she had a teacher, though, that it had like twelve popular time, machine stuff. So there is a good start, ass, the car and I'm trying to think about other time,

actually Wells is time machine which was not too many was unroasted them. I got identify where there were like applies. I was one of the enterprise shutting around the sun. Now that would have first person. I would have been acting on bird of prey, slingshot oath Yes, I yes, I'm saying yes, my approach is no you're right. The enterprise or just take the reading from the board ship and other several vortex using the deflector right now that we have heard today rewrote main power through the secondary cup leather eyes that couplings always around ready to go onto the nervous back as they were going to stay. The guy Yes, we ve started say anything you want, and let me just first of all say that you wrote to movies that I watched so many times that I find love so much kicks boxer to kickbacks or to death warrant, dark city.

Yes and blade. Fucking great load came out the same same year. Ninety eight, I I when those came out on dvd. They were just in and an alternating loop. Nice blade was so fucking fantastic, and dark city? I had a, I worked character, the time and I had a dark city. I still have like a dark city, promo teacher. Well, where he's Rufus all is sleep now the crazy thing is, it's actually not Rufus. All on that post. What I believe is a lie. I mean it's supposed to be the character, but they had to cobble together and on its actual Lee top of its agenda. No, no, no, it's Sean at one. My college roommates was working for a like the company that did the poster together at the time he posed in they serve Photoshop like his face ass. He couldn't for some reason you can like you for that.

That's amazing and subtle. Does that just that the hold him well John, you see here they are. Strange doing on, watch him again for a mom, please do your lorry? Yes, that's so that I love that will be so much that is rather Aber. Nobody never really got a million dollars it such of inventive, weird it it it came out. It was a little ahead of its time and in its running costs one of the producers in a fair amount of the crew were on the matrix and the view of Ex comedy subsequently on the first major film, and I actually think of ASEAN and they share some similarities, but it just came out a little head of his side. We'd, never big, star right, Rufus Wasn! Jennifer Connally was about were big star at that time of energy. I was in Egypt should then I know she's one of those either it's funny.

Year in the movie was very well reviewed and did terribly at the box office. Blade people them remember this, but did great the box office and was horrifically reviewed area, was just the first It was just completely savage, really savaged and then the second wave on him and then, like sort of I eloquently good reviews we got at all from the first play from was like sight and sound. That, like, oh yeah, yeah, the maximum rate, the picture and SAM Clark fuckin first seen where it goes to the meat locker rave with Tracy lords and then just by and then five billion, don't, although it is amazing that meeting in it and Stephen Door is really great as deacon. For I mean, is it s, doors ever been, but dialogue is quite preferred. Dorothy Gulf seamen, on behalf of my group would be a great

video series on which there was nobody should obviously even worth my fucking Caddy Noah Gb Dwarf on your kid smoke and the golf course, while adults here maybe a dwarf on door and get back it didn't go away to get on his knees and hang around Stephen Door for the TIM Conway's up there. If you got it is easy. When I get back up these sprang, I was actually and ask if you are Why are these I think, to stooped and, conversely placed a really fortytwo, but I but those tumor would not let me a dark city. Is it really thirty, four zero body now you're like the level of body and Conway, was I dont know if that goes away. He see or or he's just

Ebenezer, Scrooge unease like super mean, I don't know, I'm not, and I ve never met him. So I don't know. No. I think there are some people who are just. I think there are some people who are funny for work and I think there are some people who just funny I am going to publish this one. I suspect I suspect is now. Was there was there a much longer initial cut of dark city because it did feel it feels like in places like it jumps around a little bit more like ok, what I like it here and there was. There- was also a emanate, released, a kind of directors dvd detail, but yet there is definitely a longer cut. It's so good. I just Irene that's one of those movies that I I really want my favorite movies of the nineties and I at a movie. I hope people go back and see if they haven't if they haven't seen it. If you're like a film enthusiasts, I have to say: is it a it's it's over

the things I ve worked on its part. You know if you're like a real film nerd like that's the one people dig, was it turn outs press did who did the crow yeah right and adjust its? Let me if you want. I am not that we have to get on dioxins attention but so Alex reach at me. He wrote like a treatment for dark city and asked me if I would like flesh out the scrap right the script than I read the treatment- and I was like sixteen pages long and it was- it was brilliant, but it was. It was just all over the place. And he knew that and end the crow had not come out yet again and a pastime, because I would just like this is crazy, but like I, didn't, have a context for Alex, and so he went off and the crow subsequently came out and I thought was amazing

and on at the time he got them. Dobbs wrote Kafka, among other things, to flesh out into a screenplay and and its finders raw friends now but get but but but Lando the perfect guide on a early in life and in Sudan. It came back to me like a euro later and adapt point I'd seen crow, and then I also have this fixation for Australian and employs said will come to Australia for like a month ago. Hang out and TAT was kind of that. Some good for me, but I just I just remember that the holding with dark city when we were in Australia to her son was, I said, it's totally fine. It like this world have different rules than earth. Is that the rules that

be consistent, bright, and so we went through this whole thing of like what are the rules and making sure that their consistent and the first thing I said was you can't have a movie called dark city in which there is never daylight and at some point not have some one comment on the fact that it has never day in that. That's how that sea with William hurt. There's a big pivotal scene in the film were they start talking about the fact that there is no day and Lambert characters like oh yeah there isn't it what's up with their own research work backwards from that anyone yeah it's a great movie and people should watch ain't. They aren't, but, but you you did right. Death warrant yet which, when you were in school right, did you leave school or did you finish school, I finish school and I actually wrote that about three months after because that what had happened was I finish school and that summer die hard. It come on and ah I

not initially thought of writing action, films and die hard had come out, and I thought maybe I'll try to write an action speck in Oh I was like oh it'll, be die. Hard has everything was diehard only at length, so this was like die hard in a prison and I wrote that in it sold immediately when in the production and did pretty well, I think of it even at that at the time I think, until seven it was empty and most successful whom all types of the only movie I actually have received when you signed a contract a right of home like they give you net points. We are on the net profit of which are completely non existent and I actually saw it needs which one because I think we spent four million in it and making three five domestically and above it made so much money that I actually saw net gratify consumers like they couldn't they could,

hide it for those listening leg of those net profit deals like return of a jet. I suppose we has never got into productivity and utility is never all of these. Are like oh yeah, this is an improper and weak. We totally lost money on that our away, so they get away with it just Jason. I know it's a shady amounting, but so, as you know, but so is all Chicago in the accounts is usually spent forty million on this one buses. Here I mean because the way it works is that you on stuff it's profitable, any anything is genuinely profitable. As is you get together, couple of people- and you ought at them- and there is usually settlement, because you know all these movies that are supposedly not profitable. I'm sure You know at the end of the fiscal year when they would ever they do their where they make their financial go. Look how well we did this year like way put all your movies haven't. I remained morning, while also also things that don't you know,

naturally make profit and not the first cycle like over the life of the film like as it goes now and of Rio DE or dvd or becomes a library thing, and then they saw the library stuff can make a profit ten years later and eventually cause there's all these sort of additional revenue streams. Not then I'm sure you're, you're There's want to hear about that. No actually, it is very interesting because it is when you think, when you think the most successful movies of all time- and you may go my god all those people must have gotten really like. Someone did, but my but usually artists or the Artemis involves regulators but you work with Van Dam directly. Did you ever get new Vandam bought the script? Oh, he bought it in your here's, the amazing things. So I was at the time crumpled up yards and its genes will. I think I know they are hundred thousand dollar bill here are we are so

was at the time. Briefly after school, I was, I was a p, a at a now defunct studio, emptying studios maritime regions, videos and they made a bunch of stuff. And they were over it where CBS Radford is now, and so I was the guy that would deliver male around the lot and also like deliver like shoulders to the offices in crop like that night, like a hand truck. I would go on so I wrote this script and and my agent, the time call me left message for me at work. Call me and said: do you know who junkyard vandam? Is it at the time? Are the only cyborg end and blood sported come out or something, like that in an eye Sunni, any. I remember he like a you could hear him like open a newspaper unease there's like Liketh three showing it man, shiny, Sierra, the chinese theatre time go see it now,

He's gonna meet you like five throw up up up up at show. I saw cyborg chinese Theatre, which is terrible but like what and then I went over and I met with him and he at the time he had. This is back and like eighty radio. He had one of those giant like like military self erect the first cellphone I'd ever see it was like eighty pounds. What is that any was like it's a cell phone- and I you know what I was doing he gave me. I have to say this room in the rue. He gave me a big hug and he said I'm terrible at that at axes produce like you're gonna, be a big sovereign. These it highway. Reveal, but I will protect you like an eagle. Maybe I got a cloth, or does that mean? I don't know what he is still doing. You see I'm leaving

yeah he's like your piece, the one that is blown everything in the right direction. Yes, yes, I'm and you didn't know it and he's lying about? Like la ten weeks later we were making a movie, and I was the only writer and I was on the set. You know he was in I own that did you ask you for another drafter. We just go to the store, meeting we had to do because is English was even now he's good is now, and we had to take I immediately had taken most of his dialogue, a report on it to other characters like in the script I now we did is bullshit. They use for three american company was actually friend Canadian, like an hour c m p like on loan and fertile high. What was about to appreciate I read he'd so great feeling when I tried to explain. Schwartz yeah wee wee wee wee made an attempt.

By the way you're lucky you had vandam with you at the chinese state of that time is that such a Hollywood boulevard was not a great, no, no, no, my dear! No, no, it was a crappy crowded with like they hadn't refurbished the theatre across there was no Hollywood Highland. It was really just like fuckin drugs and I'm not kidding. So the chinese leader is a giant theater rights. But if you went to like a matinee on a Wednesday, it was completely empty and there were somebody like doing drugs, somebody beating often like. It was still like that now just ass, a spider man in the eyes of their guys, still jerking off a terminator Jurgen. Where and a lot of Russia Borg. Get me. Remember you remembered a filmmaker named Jack, shoulder no directed. Hidden in my name or an ELM street to and stuff like that he had like during. He did us suffered new line, and remember him telling me just randomly that he went to see one

first films in Times square or like at the time like like and like me way through his movie, like this guided, jumped up and said, make it stop, make us up and started beating his head around like that our view is it with, because it feels like with writing for film once you gotta get in, and once you have, I like a movie that does pretty well, you pretty much. Does it seem like you're in the machine for awhile or do you feel like you constantly have to keep proving yourself over and over the years we have friendly Tom. Let anyone fucking scripts everywhere, a lot of which private get made right, but it doesn't matter. If you look at me, get. I mean I've lot of friends who make a healthy living and have never had anything made right and if get something made in its a decent head? I don't think you can some forever in Europe are not just in the club but its heart

to get anything made, much less be ahead. So if you had something one hit, you It will be much easier to get work at customer unless it's blank cheque. Yet right! Yes, but you can you can you can still, like squander it knew now. I've got nothing but economic and dry up. It certainly easier for me now than when I started out when you ve had a view successful films than they they go. He know you must know something. What I mean, I would say, the dark nights were printed. Batman begins were pretty those those are pretty successful movies day were that euro to also, I think for me, it's that that I've done it a few times as like blade had really obscure character that you know had a trilogy, films and video games and blob line. Then Batman and in everyone's his barbarians easy to do, but like the previous Batman debate, and begins was

doing work will forget. Yeah forget just the same with iron man, where they forget Light act like oh well, you know it now, because for ten years it's been an institution in a superhero film universe, but before that iron man was of was not an a character in the forefront and rubber daddy Junior was warning now and Batman begins. I think part of the reason that it it blew up so much is ineffective people were pretty bird by them in a Robin right and it, but also that the image Will you got lucky in that D Batman and Robin Hood done and the time we came along and there been a lot of people who had attempted to do ban in films in the interim. Like me, pretty savage had written another one in there was going it already aeronaut ski you know, one in and boys you keen was going

Ben and beyond, and then any cavern Walker did like abandoned super either all these like still boy. Batman, things that had not happened in the intervening period, and so by the time Chris, I came along they they were they they had to do something radical there and they were kind of like so but I just remember when I got the job everyone or sing. Both on line and amongst my friends, o that'll. Never it'll, never get made right. You'll never get any further smart money. Was it not getting? Yeah yeah exactly well because at that point, when you heard Batman, by a year ago, and we knew that we were it's funny, because if you look at the box office for that film versus the darkness we knew that we were coming in from a deficit, but there was a. There was a negative connotation to the character that so we had to get past that much less it even being a good movie

I saw how turned out. Ok, how do you like what you had? Did you have some sort of a guiding principle that was was rewrite where you re Writing from a reactionary place to the previous guiding principle is Batman, doesn't kill. Some guy noticed we re replace like it has to be different from this or was it you know, let's just throw that away, will to start over with a whole different vision of it. We were aware that it had to be radically different, but that said that wasn't the guiding principle, because I don't think you can you can create something just as a right. Action to something. So they I mean the guiding principle was was what, if we play it straight that was really it and then, in short of you know, reverse engineer a dandy. Everything like the utility no on attended the utility bouler that that members are so so, like the previous bat mobiles that had been in the burden, films

was not practical. Car like ITALY like it, I remember like ASEAN Y yeah Eddie, you could make early turned a corner why it had to fire grappling hoagie at a wall era. In reality, exactly- and so we just ok what if it's real cited, so that even even like the cow had you know like listening device, in advance of better like the classic example. As you know, the like the low design features, at is honest gauntlet We were. We were a d c in New York and I remember asking Paul levels: who is a publisher DC at the time as it would put, are those things he said. Oh we column, scallops like but they're. Just I should today have like a function is another. Just a design feature in Chris was like No way and- and I saw remember fine back from New York and and we were talking about what had to be ineffective-

we're on the costume verses. Not- and I said I think, those things have to be there and Chris said Then you better, if I can figure out what they do and that's how we came up with the idea of of them being rigid and then being both a offensive and defensive or you could trap ashore blade and break it, and so that my are the guiding principle is just what. If it were you were justifying everything yeah justifying all of the economy. I never even now. I don't even question with the gun: let's do until they feel that boy now another comic books adopt the air but and that boy, no one, but no one had ever just thought behalf. What if it's real and then the other things that are point reference when we are making a film worn, other comic book films, we they were the matter would be king or, in a Lord said, maybe our things like that. How can we just talk for one second, about Nick, very agent of shield? Sure? Yes, without

it doesn't matter, and I love like like when somebody rights on the internet like they'll cherry pick, your credits like Elsie David S, courier Nick Fury, agent, your leg and in a very bad I'm just like him, you fucking asshole such a snark. It is arguable, cage these regions, the others. Ok, I wanted to show your eyes, but I want you to know. I want you to forget what I will explain it, but I wanted to share your eyes of regret what you know about Nick Fury now what if Nick Fury was David Hassle half and what, if. David Hassle, Hassler looks like the original Mccleery mechanics, though, what im wondering what David hassle half as Nick Fury, had a basically Android double in this story had to stop at double. And d a life model delivery model decoy. So it's

using because its I mean it shows by the way. I do you know that, usually, when you say like will look at you know, look how far superior movies of common in the nineties. They weren't really that great state and then you can always go. Blade was really read in also you you definitely I wouldn't you know, what's the story behind, so the story is hopefully I mean he all like to think that, like the first script, you writers, you'll be really lucky and you'll have a lot of creative control and ownership, or you can just right ever. It is that you want, but the truth is usually what happens? Is you you kind of stumble through some, not great projects, things: ok and then you get a little bit more control and so early on. In my career I mean soup. Early on, I want to say, had only been writing professionally for like two years I believe Marvel was by new world at the time. Remember them Who I new world was a sort of, I think, an extension of like

and in group by Golan and glow visited done, like others, cheesy it moves in the eighties Urim grammar and dont show, Marvel was was in bankruptcy and was not a particularly valuable asset, and in so doing This move at the time to take some of the- I guess second tier. In fact, during this period, they made their captain miracle. Remember that one there was made. That was that was during this period, and so I was young brighter and they wanted to do Nick fury because they reason that Nick very could be. It would be as expensive because he was a super. That's like that. So sensibly. Overhead is an Ipad yes, but there are sensible I was gonna write like what would then be a sort of under ten million dollar film. Like you know, twenty three year old writer who loved like this to rank, go. You know Nick Fury, comic book, so our and my script was.

Forty hydro is in at in Baron VON struck her and the Satan Claw and Elam bees and arms online. It was pretty. It was very much influenced by like Kirby in strike on all this stuff and on, and they didn't make it so fair enough, and then you know some few years later, I somehow that stuff got it as a group got sort of vocs to be made. As for me, for it baby movies and then they said great NEWS like we're, going to take your old script and we're going to make it and David half off on to star in it and and they say we want a fly. You up to Vancouver. Coover do their rewrites and I just said no We are going to make it even relatively young. Of my career, like I did, have like limits like age said enough in so I somebody

we wrote me, I didn't don't even know who- and I had no involvement in making it and that's how come in so that interesting point to tackle is that things go through. So many had so many rights so a lot of times, you never really see everyone. If you just got it, I d be paid out people that you don't hear these stories like. Oh, are you when Turn Tino got a million dollars to write at six minutes, seen in back rooms, untie crimsoned idea and also that that it constantly go through their so many hands that something can go. You don't always know, based on the screen credits that those Epinay MA responsible afforded. They may not have I've written on movies that I've been on credited yeah, where I've its they called script? Doctoring? Where I it's done anything from like right, a scene too week punch of dialogue on something or do a couple of weeks in and that can actually be fun kind of work, because you're sort of

you're gonna you're jumping in your sir surgically trying to do. You have any emotional attacks from exactly and you're just trying to like I've done it a couple of times the best job I kind of joy pressure, I kind of enjoy it yeah but but an end. An I've had products or someone else's come in. You know for a few weeks in punch things up, and yes, so that was an incident I dont even know who rewrote Dat. Durban has off when it could have been here today, but it is interesting as a writer how many different way you know when you're young you go, oh well, alright or someone who you write a thing and then did become to make you made. It makes a movie, but ultimately, there's so many ways that you can survive.

The writer. Without necessarily, you know booking something may before that thing actually gets made, which to me is still such a miracle that anything ever kits method because the process, I have to say if I did like sometimes us, Get schools are things like that and I'll say you know if you, if you knew how many produce were for moving to go off the rails in any given point during the making of EMU maize it anything good ever gets man. I mean you just be amazed, but on yeah I mean it's. The other thing is there are some really good writers out there who had three or four things made, that our tears movies and there really good writers. I give you actually read the original scrap you just like. Oh, my god, you just feel bad for this person has like, whatever you know, crazy, star this police, her that in our screwed it up so I mean is due to go into this business as a writer with a certain amount of relief.

Wishing control, you're yeah and you look if you want complete control right, a novel. You know and if you don't want anyone to rewrite, you write write a book, it's a its partly because its aim and you hope it as you continue on here, Here I mean there's no question than I am rewritten less now at the beginning of barbaric, but I'm still rewritten occasionally in their instances where someone, a friend of mine, rewritten me in ivory, written that friend and but it but the other thing the after realises, even if you're making something relative. The inexpensive, even if you're making a micro budget whore. For four million dollars right there, meaning for million and then maybe another twenty five million a market at so they're spending close to thirty million dollars on something you wrote. So it's not like it like. If you write a novel and you self publish a grieving, someone publishes the money

valve in getting that thing out to market is relatively minor, even a small filmy stilted like get Someone who spend thirty million dollars of something so by its very nature, there's gonna, be compromise. You're gonna be other people that have an opinion, and I remember at one point the apex of it was the we were shooting men still at the same time, Christmas, finishing arm d, Arnault rises, and I I I call my wife one time from the set, and I said I can I calculated like those? You budgets and I think, like I have my name unlike over six hundred million dollars of stuff, that's being made of Warner Brothers right now, and it said that was kind of crazy. That was like the apex of like not to mention all the marketing don't want. My god,

you know now. Your name is also on billions of dollars worth of stuff. At the same time I mean: do you can't really step to think too much about that, though right I mean you can have a moment really here. That's really need very regular. Yeah I mean de. I mean obviously foot through your mind sometimes, but you at the end of the day. You still have to try to do the best film that you can do and I think for me the lesson of Batman begins in the dark night. Is these? Certainly by the time we did the dark night? This was a big budget. Thing Instead, it is hoping to make me a note between merchandising and whatnot billions of dollars and there's the tendency to one open act against failure in like oh well. Why don't you got or a wanted? You guys just sort of do the same thing. You did the first time the different or you don't wanna be too

energy, and I mean the lesson for Us- was you can still have this massive massive, massive film, this cultural phenomenon and I think, still do something that really uncompromising. We didn't we We didn't compromise in any way because we thought o this will be a blockbuster, so we have to compromise and in most of the time people feel like they do have a compromise that he should compromise yet. Well I mean bit, though, is especially the first two were sort of fire fun stories, because you know that the audience perception before Zombies- everyone loves the judge, before. They see them, but the perception before Batman and then seeing it, and then I meant when he's ledger was Catherine was like oh yeah, I fucking kidding me the guy, then handsome got what now he's sort of the different now he is the definitive em. You know these live action, Julia, and so I mean it being aim.

To surprise an audience in that way is is it is a very pat because it is very high, surprise, people anymore, every see it every day and that everyone prejudge. That's why I mean I prejudge too, as a it's hard not to even when the first blade foam came out, I mean that movie before him was a joke and when people are it's always. This is like spawn to arrive at an average is currently on buying comic book, but it was it was a that people are just laughing about that film and and had seen it. You know I mean- and I was in the first test greeting with that, like the blood coming down like you could feel the ongoing o holy shit. What the fuck is this and- and I knew the debts with the movie- was like an all. These go on the internet, my Mammy movement, an eye, feeling when we're doing damage begins in the dark night, and I mean I'd seen, he's doing the problem

listen. I knew how amazing it was also played Udo, clear, fucking guides. Yes, you don't care awesome I mean talked about that movie is fantastic, and even you know I wanna talk to you a little bit about sequels in sequel Idas. How much you know because a boy to obviously was also fantastic, because you had gizmo and also the idea of the vampire vampire in but this when you're making a sequel- and it's like what you said while for the next one it what they wanted to be different enough, but the same enough- and you know it seems like formula for sequels is well. I guess we got away the stakes somehow to get to get people to leave their homes again. So, let's at ten characters two it now like. Ok, you just try to throw a bunch of shit in there to just make it seem more marketable and I

we too it now like. Ok, you just try to throw a bunch of shit in there to just make it seem more marketable, and I think there are some savvy to the idea that that oh, this decision of film is appealing. Commerce now in this ongoing franchise. Where aware sort of you know, if you go to the studio, our room. Everyone's wants, story universes, you know, that's the phrases you know because it, They ve seen what marvels doner you know, what will the star wars, universe, Lucas, film, and not to say that what marble and Google Chrome haven't done? It's amazing is now that everyone, others you want to do the exact same thing, and so you ve got whether their successful or not all these different studio, saying how did we come up with our own? Linked universe ran, and so now it's not

just enough to say: oh, I hope this is a three movie franchises. I go. I hope this is like a nine movie, or you know that it's it. In your plan- is crazy. It is crazy because you can't- and you ve got all these products, and I won't name them that are served going out. There is like this is gonna, be the personal projected a movie thing in a good job out, starting with just making up the first that I think, I did educators and, I would even say the idea of a truly He is daunting because a presumption trilogy early. I think because, because rarely rarely is the third of anything like people. Already seen the characters they get it. It's almost like the thirty Reggie feels like well. This is purely ceremonial. We just need three to around out there, but yeah you're right. It's eating doubly hard. I mean you ve been a lot of good sequels yet and it is really hearted

with third from unless something like Lord of the rings where it was three books to begin where right in, its incredibly hard to do it in a third time, because you're no matter, what you're saying they're going what iteration especially if you're not designing them to be one long story which, like an abandoned films, we weren't I mean we weren't saying oh, let's like when we ve the dark night. We know we in A we're gonna do this, you know, or we ve set these seeds to do x, Y and and we had no idea what we are They do in its heart. Yes, it's hard to find a balance between. If you don't have a plan per se, is Chris always fella you got. Each movie has to have its own integrity and if you have a great deal use, it ran dont. Think about a sequel.

And if you do that really well, it becomes harder to do a sequel, but at the same time, if you're trying to do a presumptive trilogy, I think eyes is are starting to catch on this, and I am, as an irish member, be a little weary of it. What is it what's the most interesting thing about criminal one did with just how he works is process monopoly. When you see a known over, you go, oh yeah, that's it! That's the Crispin all move, even though it difficult to say exactly what it is makes a Christopher Nolan Movie, I mean, as it is a collaborative he's super grace and thoughtful, and I would say the one defining characteristic of those movies is that he He really believes in not talking down at the audience like he. He thinks. Sometimes, no you gonna pay attention like he doesn't. He doesn't like to make

things. He has a lot of faith in the audience. It wont. Let me look at interstellar. Yes, it there's a lot of faith if anyone else, if you ve been able to get in on that they would like so much say. You can't get people can people calculating timelines? You know, like Einstein in a debate that will be, would have been probably an hour shepherd, not making the army hee hee You know in general, like as he is as you're, making movies at the studios. It you like it used to be in the old days it you had one or two people who would decide. I want to make this film. I get blade and dark, sir we're both made in the Haiti of new line when there is Bob shape it at the time. Michael D, LUCA, was a guy who is basically saying I want to make this and he wasn't doing it based on profit and loss statement, son. What other felt he would just be light? Did he would make it and on Paper Blake no sense whatsoever, but he just liked it and then by having a data, but now what

bins- is neither a green light committees studios in their getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger answers like now, there's like ten, dollar. Twenty people are thirty people who way and on whether or not a film should get made and then putting biased nature. The more people that you have weighing in You know the more sort of like all the interesting nooks and crannies and bumps get planed off and it can become more generic and an risk averse, and so I think, with caress it's like he just fortunately, he's got to a place in his career were He can just say no. I want to do this and I know on paper. It doesn't make any sense, but I want to do it faith in the audience. Are you concerned at all that we're getting superhero fatigue, or at least like you know, just

like ok, tumblr Spiderman, cannot simply Garfield One, that's another guy. Well now I was ok. That was crucial, but now it's been or was it you know what I mean like does it do? Are you worried that people are just gonna, be like superhero movies? Well sure, and I think at a certain point, you say well I mean I mean the period between reboot, like getting shorter and shorter and shorter to be a lucky needed twenty years was ten in and it was like eight and then it was six and now it's like to you now and an you used to be there, like, at least it was like a new generation that were exactly and so on. I think about that. I also think about through so many superhero films getting made gave my wildest dreams. When I was growing up in a million years, I never would have imagined that there would be illegal

film or guardians of the Galaxy phone recycling, Emily Age or Turkey airy moral characters. You know, I don't even know what the right with the word is it like. They probably will be or there's going to be an immunity. But having said that, I also loved guardians, and I think don't call me exactly, but Twenty seventeen between, like the marble films in the Deasey films and the Marvel homes, are being done. Tony and or fire, I think there's like ten Marvel or Deasey Films schedule to come out that year. There's almost one every month and to you. Do you think, my god? How you know is your saturation point. I have no idea we'll find out yeah, but I also feel like you know what, if, if the move serve. Give the movies continue to be good, people will go ahead and most of them have been good. Now I mean mostly mammon- I mean

How was your experience gearing up but first of all, going to of steel, as we did a little with a little press thing, we did some press Duff by moderates impressed us for you fur. Can I just ask me a question about the industrial? These guys don't take it the wrong way right they like that, but how? How could you let your bank does anyone here you about a lot? Yes, but a verse, many people's honestly hit me for that. With that I get just as many people saying often that you did the right, and so I think that the that's a classic example like you. I guess nonetheless bless you as a writer. I guess Mordioux is like a fan. Comics M M end a fan of Superman, Duenna, real answer: yeah love, ok, love to miss out on in that since the like of you. The way I work the way Chris works as you do is right for the stony that exists entirely separately from

what fan shorter shouldn't? Think of that character, right you had to do was right for the story. So in that instance, this was a super man who a had only been Superman for like a week. Comics over the NEO Lattimer. The cry wanted something like that, or even in a world that conceived Superman existing he'd only he don't be flown for the first time a few days. In a world that conceived or Superman existing only he'd only flown for the first time, a few days where he never fought anyone that had superpowers before and so he's a going up against the guy, who not only is super powered but who has been training since birth to you, those superpowers who exist as a superhuman killing machine who is stated. I will never stop until I destroy all of humanity, and often from

the magic standpoint we were, it was a story about a guy who's, the last of his kind, whose given this opportunity to have his kind back, but it means right, he's canoe at that decide for so from us, if you did you take super man out of it? What's the right way to tell that story? I think the right way to tell a story is if you take this party as you can have your raced back, but you have to kill your adopted race. The moral horrible situation to be in is to actually be forced to kill, not wanting to be forced to kill. The the other person from your race and disorder give that up take Superman aside. I can get the right way to tell the story. The the other thing is, how does he saw problem, there's no prison on the planet. They can hold him this. Are super man in man? You can't fly in the maroon. How does he doesn't have flowed Mona? What is he? What does he do?

anyway, similar that Phantom Zone Edward animated by those really cool, but rather whether the other arrive at the other bullshit thing is like go to the comic books in he killed sought a couple of times in the complex he killed sawed in John burn, comic books, a true I mean. Is it? Is it possible that part of his leg your kid. You know and you shoot a bird and then it breaks your heart than you're, like all, I'm not gonna, kill anything. That way. Out of the point is, there's a there's a you know that film could have been called Superman begin settlers a film in which he's been hiding that's better now, but but you know, The point is like he's, not Superman, until like that ultimate scene of that film and then and then he doesn't understand that has this sort of you know, people think of him in a certain way? There's no Lex, you remember, kills or doesn't the kind of thing that doesn't exist in this story, and we are trying to do within

the framework of what it is. A relatively realistic story about what, if this guy existed, you can shoot a bird or a plain. I like what can I say For that answer, those ignite agrarian remains and also its interesting. It's interesting when you watch a universe that doesn't have it's like watching, walking dead, they don't have they don't know. What's our bees are watching servant, I oh, he doesn't have soon right arm exceed people are people are trying to Ply history like eight like like the way the Christian I work? Is we don't do something, because all that's the way the fans, water wouldn't like it. We have to follow the sort of truth of the store, and so I don't know you tell me how you should solve that problem, our version in our work, phantoms of give. Do it

no part of the day when he there's projector, there's read it get destroyed when the ship destroy their sweat, gets to be fair, but to be fair, we were trying to construct the storage of waste that he had. No choice: we want we're trying to make it a Sophie's choice. It dont think his supercool breath would have done. Anything doesn't have super breath in our well that established as a try. You haven't no eight as it now is a baby Soongoora Adam go. Oh man, my braided, you know we can have a larger. This is this. Is this appeal? If you put it up again, Finally, to early everything I have heard people say: well, he could Influenza did the moon in like no. We can. We are Superman, needs oxygen still. He could hold breath for a long time, but not arrived after that reform. You know Tom Cruise were killed their weight move, but I wonder if

in a sermon, especially just as his powers. Also throughout all of civil law, are met. Bit fully consistent now either now or in other words, if you are very kind of you watch the Brandon Ralph version, that's like housing, picking up an island of kryptonite that link. You know, by the way and how is it not crumbling around him or how is it that you know? There's a visit he's gonna Superman. They basically just put a necklace around him and he was about to drown. You know what an any reversed time I would like once you can make the earth go the other way, but I will say what I love: love love about the Bam Emerson RIM latest trailer came after COMECON when I loved about that was seeing Bruce Wayne running into the destruction. Again. That is the whole point. There was, then, is a dozen it's like. Oh, what happened in that move? because the areas like why others lot structure will like yeah

we're gonna talk about like because it's like you trying to follow things through to its logical, like it doesn't happen in a vacuum, but it's also like, I think, like it's cool, because, like the audience like beyond its reaction of that of a man of steel was like all my gathers so much destruction of these buildings are going down, but you get to see sort of leg Oh that's out Bruce Wayne headed to your browser. I know it. I know somebody broke and we got their source destructive. Barbara was like, but there would be without its we'll. We were trying to tell a story that it's not magical world where, like this happens, positive amendments to save a puppy or or like all these buildings collapsing? somebody wouldn't be heard, is like we were. China say, will what if this really happened? Yes, I have is confronted with a thick super man to where it is like their throats, buses which won the diner cut back and not the donor card like when that, when Richard Lester took over in and in a bid to comment, you kind of became a weird comedy

ass we were, but words were, but just saw it who died during that fight in which, in the end they so many people were to die? And but it's the pits, the point where they kill Superman with a bus, current work and then the two and then see, if you like that and they're like picking up trash repeat its right to try to basically kills wells odd? Maybe it's like Vigo and Ghostbusters to what happens when there is a joy we will also today, I admit to a little bit like like it. I think, prior to that, too, must yield to a certain extent. I think that in comic books, the only time that they sort of accurately the figure, what would happen to super beings actually went head to head was in our moors miracle. Man

when he's fighting like kid miracle man, you know that was a that was kind of what you think it would really be lighter and to a certain extent we were doing a version of that. Now Well, I'm gung ho on this fuck him I want to make is that I want to make a sketches. Just like is just just the idea of the reality of Superman. I want to make a sketch. Where am I Superman and and lower sir about their about to get intimate for the first time and she dresses and then he undresses and this crazy tentacle comes from out. And she's, like Jesus Christ and he's like women alien. What did you think was Gunnar? I think my pocket Would it not have you ever read? I was wrong to occur that Larry New in the famous signs,

in other words a out about what it what would happen, yet he right you're right it s a con man of steel woman of tissue. Didn't I didn't Kevin Smith having us to that, our having good I've already our eyes like a shot gun Blanda, because his molecular structure said, but maybe you know maybe he can control that with that part of the army control it. Well, maybe that's, maybe that's where his cold breath went, maybe it'll freezer. He could crowded ever vs like like a could Tony in Yoda, they can tell him out again. What are you excited about? I mean, I know primarily we're gonna end in the sexual talk about them, the provincial demons, but for it, but we really quickly What are you most excited about with them in its pursuit superman? Now that you know what's happening in Munich? you ve been its being in that position where you said. Oh, I rivalries movies right they come out yet honestly, I mean, I think the coolest thing is be a live action, big budget version of wonder woman. I mean, I think, that's the clear

everything else is awesome, but I I number, when we first talk in my doing that, that would just supersonic does NEA and as the writer, how did you bout one of the writers. I just want to write to us as one of the writers. How did you guys balance having multiple characters in the story, but still keeping it focused and not all over the place? There is very little that I can say about this film just walk through us the Plaza president stairway fade each of you is a balancing act upon intended. I mean you after balancing act so decorations, and that is why the others, my suddenly David Guy, confirms its its eight again. You did. You have to go back to elect. I think up,

the challenging thing about the decision, Now the posts known films and that the funding and the challenging thing is is is trying to say how can we we have chosen to use portrayed in any slightly more realistic. Why rang and so on one hand, that's really exciting, because it opens up a lot of dramatic possibilities that that. You might not have thought of. On the other hand, it makes it harder to suspension of disbelief ardor, because you have to like you can't you do things in any of these funds, because you know that's the way they did in the common borders, because we're trying to pretend is: if these common, postponing the better I love la I mean love lot of trailer love, but also love. How it looks like legislator has been like Silicon Valley start up guy. Love like automatic hiding. Where are you? Are you? Are you? If you think of who legs

There would be the day you think he'd be more in the mark. Zuckerberg knows there now ip, oh good, casting getting mark Zuckerberg yeah browser you. You have to get a person like that to have achieved that level of well right, has two beakers matic right and how many? How could he not be grooves metaphors like it like? I always thought he was like a combination of like Zuckerberg in Moscow, somebody I know love on mosque, but do you eat he had to be Christmas in and of his own right and also super smart adjustment couple days ago. You must have never met. I went to Spacex he's my way, when you look at what that guy's done it out looking for it, if you done even any one of think I not guys a genius and, I would add, a cameo, an iron man to which was which I think was shot at worst. They sexes in Hawthorne, but I mean my god, you know when you start looking up at the other end, who knows everything

like where, where it all goes, but it's like oh he's also, he also owns like the second largest solar energy company or city solar city. Yeah. I mean it's, it's it's It might be the largest now areas like everything that he started. Oh, you got, you know you got like one million dollars for selling this. So then he put ten million of that into this, and in that made a billion that like, but he geese leveraging geriatric keeps taking risks. He does like he's, not he's not just like saying like sitting back and risks on things that are not only for the good of humanity, but so like? Oh yeah, how can someone hasn't done that? Yet, as soon as the hyper the high all about the hybrid overly needs. I can't wait for the Khyber Lou hyperlink this that's a move. Waiting to find well of the threat of the said, because I know a lot of what I do is sort of like near future science fiction or things like that, and yet already, unlike

six movies. I've other asked to be involved in or have been involved in its like. The production desires like an hyper lube exists quickly, a model that is land but Da Vinci's demons we ass from which the Prayers October, twenty fourth on stars. So this is the third and final seas the third and final season. Yes was that did you say like I only want to do. Three seasons are only have the energy to do three now they know the true desire. I really had a plan to do five or six, and I mean it, it is performed well performed much better overseas and did here and stars here they dont have foreign, so I think it had been in em, there's always a sort of like how well does it do how much money doesn't make. I think if stars it had foreign that would have been a slightly different calculation, because it's done incredibly well overseas, and you know I will

three years of a good run. It is true Chris Albridge at one point it said cuz we had a plan to continue it, but it wouldn't. It would have involved at least another two seasons to sort of do the next chapter after he leaves Florence, and so, when we were we Recent we did some reciting back in March. We did about ten days. Researchers and Amy Burg. He's. A writer I mention debtor geek writer was was on it Jews with me on the receipts and we were. Didn't know whether or not we would have another season when we were doing it. So I do want to extend their fans other listening. It doesn't it's not like it just like ends, and it goes off a cliff

we we, we wrote some stuff in film, some stuff that if it were the end, this is what we would do so there's there's an end and it we when we got the news we edited and putting the seas, their Caesar probably wouldn't have been in. Had it not been the end lol, and so it's I feel, Having said that, it's a it's a it's a pretty good ending and it and it will feel like a sense of closure in a wolf eel circular like this naked. Zone tail? Do you prefer fascinated way more film and television, but do you prefer, having you know, a tent of episodes to draw its a glass I mean now I used to be that I was like ten percent of my energies we're going into tv, but now it's about fifty fifty and adjust. I like cereals, storytelling, the so much amazing tv out there I know I know I know you know Scott Gimble, he where he was

first writers room for dementia corrode absence two and three of that, and we just he loves you realize tv- I for me- that's the best possible way to tell US areas over the course of thirty or forty. It's kind of how films are going now to areas like we're, add ons or Syria lies. I know I know just to keep just to keep the audiences, but people wrote on that. That's awesome division between whose hiatus in between a vigorous seconded third season, he had like six weeks offered. I said basically the stories, as is its it's like, I did dementias. Essentially it's like I did, like divinity adventures, yeah, it's like one part, Tony Stark, one part: Sherlock Holmes, one part Indiana Jones Randall. Rigid parts we heart cells, we go the monkey. I wonder about how I go out and I remember tells the golden Monkey, those looking solomons king yeah. I get your chamberlain? Yes, yes,

he's, not my reasoning that everything in Indiana Jones wrought after that we need more adventurer programming in the world. I mean it seems, like your calendar is pretty backed up with me execrable eager I'm I'm I'm good. Through probably twenties empty, and are there any tiny, little passion projects you guys want to sneak away? Just go make this weird little small you may gather are there are such big stuff now that it can doesn't wouldn't feel became known make some weird little intimate movie where there's delayed stakes are well. Yes, where am I Finally, I partner with Guy Kevin turn, whose independent presume Bruce moves like arbitrage and all is lost a bunch of really good films and we're were producing an eye on my direct one and in some cases, writing we're doing

a little old sort of many slave come under twenty million dollar films and they're they're, not all John refilled. Some of them are in and its it sort of like in some ways. Films that loves Jews aren't make anymore and so there's a bunch of theirs. They were doing get just because they are good for the soul, if we make money in a great, but that's not the primary motive and there's a theirs amazing one that we're going next year called famine about the irish famine and it's it's an amazing script that Jerk bear road and he's gonna directed he's, really amazing, irish filmmaker and and yet that's not a money play. But it's attitude in an amazing script and it's it's.

I think it's going to be a really amazing movie in, and you know and important film, so we're doing we're doing it's kind of like a one for me, one for them thing now near grace, and it do is even you can tell people about this process. I wish we should do this in a year because I dive to secret products, I'm involved in, and I can't see anything about that. Creating a year from now will be uneasy. Grid squirrel the big budget of packages act like a letter, so cool, but I can't not then now near you can't. I mean I can even try to poke you to get hands, but I know how much trouble uninteresting when it cause I'm working under the remit of fantastic voyage with Cameroon. That's been announced, that's been really interesting. My cache has there, I mean he's this modest, like I was like that could be fun, but also just be fun to be in a room with him, and I mean the movie based on the Coolio Sombre yet exaggerated, but

they got he's just show smart. You know that you're, like candy, I'm your sort of smart as you think you would be an patients, yes, not not afraid the leg. You know not afraid to drag up along make sure it's done. It's done right yeah. What does he care needs is? Certainly, he had the remaining a smuggler of ago member that high grasses high stressing movie ever titanic. Well, I got beat that I myself I didn't do it a third time when the next avatar comes Aris. He he's he's smart guy, you ever did you ever get into it about anyone or at this point you like, I know what I am. I know what I'm good at now outdated at the funding with him is like that, so lots of people are justifiably intimidate by midnight. He's done he's amazing filmmaker? I mean it's book ended by when I went to film school. He show

The screening of the first terminator that he showed like three months before came up so obvious, No one we heard there is gonna, be the screening with an action we with our own where's. The nigger like this is gonna, be it now and he was speaking after the film we wash Everyone was just holy shit and- and I got to talk to him afterwards for half an hour, forty five minutes of just because he wasn't James Cameron, you just a guy- and I, Minded him he didn't remember, but I reminded him of that. How do you know you know, six months ago but it was twenty two is that there is a moment we were sitting in this room and there is a lot of sort of. It was the first time I met him recently and I can, when someone is that successful, where they wanted to or not theirs, peep, there's apprehension for the people around him

and so we were sitting on another's, maybe five people in the room. We were talking about story and he suggested something and- and because he's a big science guy and I didn't think it would work from like a science standpoint, and I was twice anything, and so I should act I'm not sure that works and you could see like at the air just like went out of the room and then It was everyone else, it wasn't him and he said why, and I explained wine or together make sense like a near like at each. Is people are used to I was about to miss Grammont shut up exactly. I just think it's a a at the end of the damned is gonna like do I do, and then you mean I I just you know I just that this idea being sort of imprisoned by your success that happens being surrounded by people. Were you don't No, it happens. Even if you don't want it to happen. Rica's, it's like you

what's to rock the boat or get in trouble? So you don't? You have any. I mean, and I don't care, even remotely that level, but I still really encourage the people I work with it just be like Tell me if you don't think it works like it. Like argue with me, explain why you know. I just think you need that to remain vital. You would have to because at a certain point you just go off in a really crazy direction and one. You know you have your own touch with people were in how if you're successful in Hollywood, you know at a certain point people be like you know. How will take giving you got no matter how crazy and it could be tempting to be like I'm gonna. Do a story about something: that's unproven: people I met you know just because I can just because you doesn't mean you should well this idea of a kind of humanizing all of these care

in humanizing these people and bringing it more into reality is a really great. It's been really it's before hypocrites, so we're doing we're doing eight. The sum on producing a film about Isaac, Newton, and it's based on a real story and again another hero of mine. But it was a thing in history that I didn't know about, which is going to. After he published the principia or Principia, however, you pronounce it to be at the time he was super famous Indian, been knighted news about fifty and and he was boarded he actually suffered a mental breakdown and on one of his friends, John Locke, like the famous, not that not the lost character of a philosopher yet, but the philosopher, agile

wave like getting him out of the doldrums suggested? He become the warden of the mint, like we're just kind of just an official title, and so I didn't even moved to London and he discovered it in that you're. A third of all the english currency is counterfeit and it was really bad counterfeiting problem and it turned out. There was a group of counterfeiting thieves that were led by it like it is master mine and he set about. He was given almost unlimited freedom in all these men at arms and to catch these counterfeiters and figure out who is banned and it in he or like a three year period. He caught twenty a victors and they were all put to death an end to resist mastermind guy who is like, like the player on the opposite side of the thing disgusting I shall end or every I'm telling you it's true and I didn't notice story who was like the super genius of of counterfeiting? Who is really good at like

social engineering and an icy noon caught him and at the trial he boasted and said: I'm gonna get often like they never gonna, because he paid off other witnesses. Did he got away? I mean caught him a second time and decided to be they prosecutor at the trial and this guy Womb Chaloner was a defence attorney. Anyone had to head and finally, as new gotta room was like at his hanging and I didn't get stories true, when I made my boys, they would like humanizing like these characters, like just the idea of thinking it this guy having a nervous breakdown, then going you knew in reinventing himself and employing scientific methods to catch the capture. These guys and in my country People's meets inherit. It is it is, I love, that's it beggars and what you really need to see you again, congratulations and Everything David, burrito everyone. I need to ask you like: do you actually

derivation the of the word nerd, I'm I'm I'm wondered what I'm not I'm under the imo the impression that it was the doktor Seuss reference if I own the zero. If I ran the zoo, yeah yeah, that did that, but that's what came from it, but it only came recently. It was like in the MID fifties yeah. Then they use the use it a couple times and happy days. I think the answer me like these. Yeah, you know, but it wasn't really until the movie revenge of the nerves were I really understood, that you- and this is a real question: do you differentiate between? Do you differentiation between nerd and geek. Not anymore. I think wise. I think I think at there there will? Surely there probably was. I think I I think geeks were pretty well now. I think they're sums that there are some ideas.

Like well. Nerds or more nerves are more technically minded and gives him or pop culture. Central, ok, but you know, I think I think previously, I think nerves were more social. Awkward as a function of their as a function of their regret press sexuality, repressive, shroud inability to connect with with mortals. Who were beneath them and then but geek. You know because the amount of that word is a guess is Ghek. As a Greek, I dislike the people who would bite the heads ass. I can answer at sideshows. I think geeks were probably more what we observe it automatically geeks we're probably more like you. Want to hang around them too much like nerds. Couldn't really hang around you but geeks. You pride didn't really want to hang around think in it like in the distant past, but I think all I'm saying the same thing now I think them lines have merged. I adjusting its interest

I'm not really noticed you build a whole empire, often the word nerd, but my kids. I have three sons and my oldest are eight and five and they like to say you're. A nerd is like like, like amazingly like nerds, run the world all right, I'm so actually proud. Now endorse purgatory. It's a brow! Now when I was growing up, it was a derogatory term, and now, derogatory to challenge some boatyard could go and are not a real nerd learn Hey come on when I was a kid yeah. I was calling her now like a really like that, like oh my, they called me I am never go to the dance now here. Whenever you I didn't realize now, leaving noticed tat com, enjoy your burrito.