Please allow me to welcome you to the nervous podcast number. Three. Twenty for the nervously. Shows coming back to television, BBC America Saturday night? thirty. After a doctor who and orphan black renewed doctor who bring new orphan works it's a new series and then assume you show his. We ve evolved it a bit its location. Now cut a nice guy, stand upon the show a bit longer its brief got. Some gets cavity sketches So that is noticeably shortcomings: BBC America, thirty March thirty check it out. I also talking It is currently on now this neck, guess or us got ads from thirty rock and read from parks and wreck an especial surprised asked Sunday at ten p m: for a brand new walking dead the day for that would be Sunday. Be wary

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To everything you need to create an exceptional website. Now this part gas is three people. Its new Patrick Harris was come back by the way you check out newspaper dreams and the nurse you to challenge you to get comes like Youtube. Dotcom flash nervous pretended stared The end of the day is what happens. Stop staring at Me Square face New Veterinary came back on the fact that this directive, a he's writing an amazing magic, show called nothing hide Niels. The president of the matter is pervasive: per head of the MAGIC Castle, which is awesome if you're, in LOS Angeles transporters, often invite bring a tight ass him, and so he brought on the two magicians who are doing this incredible, live, show, Helder, reminders and direct or guardian so

They came on to sort out my magic in the show and it was really really fun. I love you. I obviously I think everyone enjoys magic, but it's really grated sit down and talk to me gently over decision on a human level and sort of figure out where they come from and- and What image means to them has not always just for us to go home. Time to do it especially will, if you do this, nothing to hide is running right. Now, at the given play house, you gotta give a plaster com and your inner near LOS Angeles. Now around this time, go see. They keep extending the show, and I M so excited so here we go. There's bycatch number three, twenty four with Derek held her and p age now entering murder, star com

the civil war is one of the people audio SEC, start cop on This is one of the Cimarron on going to start on oh and this thing check my paycheck, private audio remodel starts Nick Nick. Can I ok, I'm fine worthy of note sort of up. I blame Ryan here. This is a secret studio. I'll have I'll have a word with him. I'll, never have a word with him. Welcome gentlemen high

I'm sorry, you were waiting in the lobby for like twenty minutes, I didn't know what's good, for I was hoping smoke would appear, and then you guys were just billion studio already. All they do is practised there coin role. Son their fingers. You know triple cuts ever since law. Ever since I saw Well Keller. Do that real genius? I always wanted to do it, but my left hand is sucks at everything. I just be though, unlike in labyrinth and do the oh, that's MIKE, ocean the. I know it is oh, my god, and when Pendule Let was on, he told the story about how Michael motion he were childhood friends and my pen had the balls and so to speak so to speak, and Michael was like you mind if I play around with those in so pen has some responsibility in nice and then they cannot happen. I don't know, but I think introductions or our pleas of we started yeah. A lot of people say that I see it. This is Derek dog.

YO allow fellow there and held her demoralize nice, you you're getting you get. They are to the probably I'm gonna stay at the two best close up magicians go on right now. On this pod guest on this issue or service should serve. You haven't seen my close, a magic now, that's true, but you'd derided you're still the best ones here they, are currently doing this. An unbelievable show that their both the here, let's talk about it that way and fantastic- What would you what's so? What's the bus magician term, for you guys you like magicians or close up artists or artists in general or like? What's it sort of like a really really is now? You can be racist in that way in a weird way, by giving

the wrong african american terminology to your own african american person. Then you end up saying something offensive in the same old. True with magicians. If you call them show me, a trick is not appropriate in this case very fence, magic face, it has like wherein car jumpers hard, jumper I dont really jumpers is a real trying to get my go with them. At any rate, I This is Neil Harris. I am happy present what people are. Listen. Do they, my face right now. They recognize your voice up enough even like this, who We'll just came in here. I am the president of the Academy of magical arts which issues where the MAGIC Castle the organization within the MAGIC castle, walls, Derek our raining close up magician of the year of two thousand twelve, he won closer magician Dear Helder Year, raining two thousand or parlor magician of the year.

These two gentlemen came up have their own amazing individual acts they joined forces to do a show in the downs pillar, theatre, the art of the moderate forces, dark, dark, magical forces. How do you determine how do they determine who the asked magician of the year we're right in there right now, it's March and Numb and all of the members get devote magicians and magician members vote and you I can go online, and hopefully you ve seen a lot of the performers renewed it just sort of like voting for the Oscars or the Mps or something you vote for your top five, and then I want to see like wizard duels. I think you have a different idea. Of what happens at the MAGIC Castle. I've been there many times, but it there's no dueling wizards. There should be there you're, the president. You can make that should happen magic Ethel. I was just there. I was there when, when a new Andrew Golden Herschels performing and who is a wonderful, tells me you re now he can take a piece of paper and turn it into a butterfly, which is awesome. It has a lot of other things,

but I want to give them away agreed. I just gave something away. At any rate there Derek and held her are currently performing an Wonderful, like our plus version of this, showed that they did together at the Power Theatre called nothing to hide at the given. Play house, which was supposed to only be through the beginning, mid January and then pushed for a couple weeks and pushed for a couple weeks. Its extended again again end it doesn't to stop it sold out and they had their single highest ticket sales for the history of the gaffin when, for the show holy shit? Yes, oh it's a big, it's a big thing and what's nice is that most people don't get to see a lot of magic in their lives and when they do it's kind of cheese and when they hear about great magic like the MAGIC Castle there not able to go really cause they're, not magician members or nor? Maybe they don't wanna suit victory, they don T and a suit, which is part of a dress code. So this allows people to be able to see this awesome type of magic done

is as good as you can possibly see it with. Just you know a few dollars I met the magic is sort of probably one of the things. The analogous in thing is a one man show I got someone's put up a one man show and most the MAR, not amazing, but the when you see one. That's really incredible than you like. Oh shit, that's exactly what is supposed to be like these, due to their Louis e k of hard magic. My guide that Bulgaria, but you do you come you. Do you have sort of other slightly different, This is because you focus on close up in your ears as parlor magic. So, like there's, a big bigger of a state showed to do. Was there and I did combined those two things into a mega thing. It's actually in that the site is not the main difference between parlour and close up. I think that the differences as far as I'm concerned,

It's more the the level in which you perform, which includes the magic. Normally you work on more in and I resent the level and partly work on a vertical level, but the size. It's not that much of a difference of things. Is that better? Ah, no you don't hear you did everything you know now we got it. Ok cool saw an actual. I think it's just our styles of performing that fit. Those criteria is better in in in in those rooms. At active criteria that should this have cards criteria, hard, Materia, Arteria new word But I don't think that it's like that doesn't really matter at the end of the day when, when, when we join to do that,

show part of the pieces would be considered pieces for parlor situation, another pieces for a close up situation and we can. We can go back and forth on any of this. I do feel like that, no matter how cynical or how history or how negative people are about magic when they do see a fantastic performer as I just When does it show rules while at our space a meltdown and you know, there's a lot. A young nerdy type, some hipsters come in their fine, but what watching people react is fun as what's happening on stage when something all you know, hill pull something off, and then people from the back cannot not go what's up. That that kind of I don't imagine that that's what people shot out at the given playhouse but they'd. Definitely yeah I mean magic is inherently-

amazing and as long as the magician doesn't get in the way of it, and allows it to communicate than people usually react accordingly. How'd you develop that confidence will cover the confidence to let the magic speak for itself and not a nut, I do over talk it get in the way you know over perform it. I just setting understanding it. Level bigger than what was then a performer level. But what do you know what it can be to an audience and like what It is too people right now and what it has meant throughout the ages and a few if you allow people to experience it in like a pure sense with with Reno without their defences, going up than they're able to really experience. You know what is hopefully mystery, which is amazing and doesn't happen very often these days,

Is this sort of a renaissance of magic right now? There's a generation of young magicians who are trying to sort of redefine what the image of magic is one to the other ass. It can be broken down into so many different type. So I think, there's a great renaissance of kind of the magic being cool again as a general idea. But then you know you look at her wonder. Stone is a movie that's coming out, but that's like big illusion magic, which is so different from that Clyde MAGIC rate, and you have mental lists that are sort of, Laval, that so I think, thankfully, in art, that's not dying, but it's a very specific. It takes a very specific breed and a very specific type of person. To keep it alive and keep it knew and refreshing because you can just go to shop and by a couple Carter. And learn them in teacher friends and then claim that you're a magician broken.

Say, you're an illusionist and spent fifty grand on illusions, the people but build, and then go to Branson and say that you're, a magician into an illusion, show and then you could be called an illusion, is right ever I never really thought of it that I never really thought that you can write or I mean, there's people hockin magic books. Magic sat set, costs go, but you there's also people who study the craft who know the history of the of the people who originate it. Moves who have perfected said, moods and with cards. It gets much more hyper, focused and much more dexterous. Luton, legitimately not a ton of trickery is involved that you can do

can deal seconds. You know where you're dealing the second card instead of the top card, a new can stare at someone's hand and not have any idea that that's what's happening. You can tell from the middle of the deck you can holy fuck up a deck and then it's back to normal, like you can do things, they can do things that and I'm I sound like their show pitch man, but legitimately day when Derek says that he likes to operate from a level of that's bigger than the trick. I think that that's that that shows inward they do on in their performance, because it's not just like tat right now. You're aces are on the top of the deck, but they turn thing into a much bigger thing that is really kind of mind going somewhere. Is it. What is it where's? The excitement for you is it in farmers is it is it is it crafting? Is it crafting move

or where, where were you, what do you love the most? Well, I think it's it's a mixture of everything a little bit, but what what they think that makes this showed different from the conventional magic show that you'll find in a bunch of places that our idea of doing a show is actually to communicate the idea. The magic is a way of expressing an idea of what we believe be the world we live in. So that's just a tool almost to get to that point of sharing an idea or several ideas during the show and magic. It's it's a way of communicating light, stand up like dance like Theatre like Cinema, it's just a way of communicating ideas and most magic They think that, just by doing the magic they're doing something you know they are, they are expressing an idea and sometimes they

but sometimes you don't know, and it's just a trick, and it's just a trick there. No idea. There is no concept behind. There is no philosophy. There is nothing it's just. I go to the magic shop. I buy this this and this is a trick here. You go like someone playing scales without substance, a job booking reciting all the joke, Cinema Ryan carried by a real book. Again, you can buy a book with jokes and with that and you are not a chameleon right so so I dont believe. If you go to match up and you buy a tree, can you do it? That's why I'm here That's not! That doesn't enter my my way of of thinking about the magician magician that people are more serious about what they do and they study and the research and they create and they craft and they practice They spend literally years of their life before they go on stage, doing something how you gonna times there these guys are at the top of

the game. Right now and I think a lot of times you don't get to the top of the game until you're, sixty five his old or seventy years old when, when you are respected and revered, unlike the divergence and people like that, and so I think it's great that we are in a time where contemporaries of ours are able to be discussed and still do what they do, because I think it makes it more accessible and it makes it did, dare I say, hyper to be able to come and see the show with two two guys that you not only cannot believe what happening, but that you actually want to like hang out with them after they have a drink. You not I mean like I think, that's what makes it cool, because a lot of magicians are hyper, pretentious because there are holding secrets and with her secrets and they know more than you and there is kind of a pompous to what they do and there are also not they don't see. Them is like people, the idea that yeah exactly that goes home and takes a shit and gets into bat. Like you, don't think of them is

boy, you just think of as these sort of character of that's and that's gonna do the its stole annul pervasive, but it's also the old model, and now more than ever, I think humanity is, is the most important thing to inject into magic and to become more human, and still do magic is, is, is more important than to become some sort of. You know

Omnipotent creature wizard an answer. Yes, sir. It's it's it's on saint problem, but the place that most people begin magic in their lives or the. Why the? Why ends a bum, pushing them towards a person that doesn't really have a place in this world anymore? And so it's really important to try to make sure that you keep. You know the fact that you're a real person in the show we we make points of that in our show, where we try to intentionally remind people that were. We are just people because it makes it makes anything. We say or do more likely that people will listen, because it's another human being and not just some thing. How do you get that? That's as as you begin your journey into magic. How do you start to go on the inside. Were you start actually learning I'm just I'm just curious like what

It start for you and then how did it? How do you get any like? It's like harmony in the sense that you have to just be great and you know if you're, if you're a great stand upon the stage and you're just working on being a great and if someone in the back of the room has been doing for twenty years, is gonna notice and they're gonna? U no mention a great sadder good job and and We take you in under their wing a little maybe show the ropes. That's the difference that we don't it's not like. We can really up these people in comedy, because You just go ahead as really really good job. It's does really caught, but but their actual specific skills sets an thing to learn a manipulation to learn and and and it so it's not just shooters like you can you can actually someone's mentors you and magic there. Actually, that's like a train like their teaching, you something, but I've heard lots of that same stuff in comedy, but you get the Jerry sign fills in people that will take some one and say hey. I have a seat

sure about this trick. If you, if you rattle through it, you might get a better laugh or if you hold, you know like, don't don't don't some people do that I mean they're, not so they can give these tips, but it's not like Oh here's, a new thing that you haven't learned yet about how to manipulate this gap. Being in a way you know like in Sicily with comedy, because everyone's voices different, you can kind of say, like oh, we'll, try this or explore this memory. You can speak in broad terms, but its dicey when you start telling a comedian start doing your punchline. This way start do this. You know you can tell people like bill. Don't look at the floor right, you know, but there, but you can't really It's it's much harder. You have to do it to learn it. You can't there's no like going home, and you know like trying to practice and trying to put you have to do in front of people. Did you guys have mentors that sort of how it happened, like you were younger magicians that did did her dead in were enthusiastic by magic and the new,

you found someone that was really really good and they started like teaching you more yeah yeah. I had many many, but it's also mentors in the sense that its similar that the you know you just look up to someone and admire what they do and ask some questions, and even even if even if they can't even give you an answer, because the answer I got from most most of the guys I looked up to was you just gotta go out and do it, but it was still begs the question how like how, if someone's listening to this pod, cast her and they love magic. But where do you where do you plan to yourself physically to be able to be around people who can mentor? You, like you, just go, hang out of the magic choppin like had in that direction. When you say lots, People, like you, got a magical amp world you loud and Edinburgh MAGIC Camp here, just to find them if they were doing shows or in town may be giving lectures, something I would attend you know, and I was fifteen. I sat in front of the MAGIC castle, even though I couldn't get in and all my friends were inside playing and they brought me out. A bowl of chili eventually

we are living in the cold on the street. I disagree and you know if you, if you want you, you know you'll find them and though, and an end, if you have talent, they will find you and they here about you, and I was a kid in Colorado and in own would meet people. You know of a year to After I made done something and I need someone, I never met my life in the end. They say: wait, you're Dirk from Colorado, I've heard of you and I d, like I'm, ok means pre internet pre. You know that's the fire alarm in just be really good at what you do or try to be really good, and you know and its I think it just happens. What about you holler well for me was a totally different experience, because my father did: Enders MAGIC, ass, a hobby so that so I started I I I was for you.

Old and areas hobbyists there, while they ask us, grow up in Portugal. Yes, I'm portuguese. By the way, if you didn't notice that I dont speak English correctly, unfortunately, you just spoke English better than most Americans speak English because you analyze the adverb. I said English, most Americans as they? U privileges, those that didn't speak! Good luck! your grammar at your drag, your grammars perfect, so my father did did MAGIC ass, a hobby and I was looking like. I was literally for when night I looked up to him and I was like: can I try to do something and my kindergarten party was

around the corner of the Christmas Kindergarten Party, and my father knew the owner of the kindergarten I was attending and the owner and ask him if he could do something for for the kids, and my father said yes for my father when I was around them said: Jonah do something and I went right sure. So we teach me a couple of tricks and that that point was literally just tricks, nothing else and the basically I I did it and that's my first show and I was for so. Is he your mentor than through through through it, and I will then he always. He always he has really good taste about magic, so all the people he looked up for our people that nice, I still think we are euros, sure and great matured really lucky, because most people's parents Don't have great taste in of everything about the things that we think about. I love my parents daily, but when I think about this they like the comedians they like itself. I would not

we share a lot of time in terms of like really great, were well yeah in magic, actually as good taste in music. I like that there must have been a certain void where you're, like Father, my powers have acceded jaws and time for me to move and actually that were I remembered the moment. I felt that and I felt in comfortable power swell. I was twelve and we will be the magic competition together and I have in front of him now- and I was like. Oh my god. This is weird- was the ok with it. No yours is a fine, Are you like ie, but I'm an amateur the well, now you're super happy for me. I couldn't you couldn't be a purely like really. You really wants my success in and need to be happy, so he was the first to write about it, but for me it was like they shouldn't I want to write about this and what about you? How was your hurry? I was your family different

very different, a brain single mother. Most of my life, she was a teenage mom, did her best, sir. You know she amazing she's, a firefighter now yeah she's he's incredible and she and she is she lesbian, so not that there is anything wrong with that at all, and I said that, like an apple, way would have Niels what it was like? A like every us, no nail your meals wrong with no Neil, you know David Brigham. Aren't you have a lot of talking? That's disgusting knows that I didn't. I didn't. I didn't group with a father, dear violent music,

play over there. I do I was wondering if we do have a sound effects bore, but it pisses people are so. I think we'll just go with the meal. Neo colonial meals, analogue mouth finite and grow. Dad, that is really where the mainstream No, that's where I think a lot of my my drive towards when all at once I start doing sleight of hand in magic, and I found this sort of a free, big brother programme, although I think the real big brother programme is also free for this sort of way, further programme and magic, and then- and I think there is a lot of you- know Dr Tube- to please like these paternal characters or sure and united ever dad. I think that, like I had many surrogate fathers and away and end, but my mom more than made up far with with what she did she's incredible end, and so but yeah it was

I had also allowed me- I think, more opportunities, because my mother, I think, knew that that was something that was missing. So she she would let like lousy. Uniform years old? She let me get on a greyhound bus NGO. Eighty miles said by myself to two small town. Where I heard there was this guy who I wanted to meet a magician end, and so I had really amazing opportunities ass, great hated. Good ever want to do more questions. I just love that The potentially dicey nature of a habit of gray. How to go see a magician entertain, a fund it. You know I said yeah potentialities Heterophylla more did you grow up, cholera, which part of Springs and Littleton Littleton? yeah I wasn't. I know I just I lived in little to no really yet Littleton lived, I lived in Littleton, I was in high school. I went to Regis High School

when I lived in little tenement we live. There was basically just a prairie like you're, a fucking columbine area. The idea tat I went to private school or I would have gone to combine arm citing growth with money. We all remember the lot of money, but my mother force all into education that they give us yet no Littleton. I groups from last time I mean and then move to Carter Springs, which is where my mama, what you re born. Rightly five hundred eighty four, ok, eighty four, I'm just that when I hear people from that act as its pies beatin would like a creepy old guy on chat lines trying to get younger kids to go, but we re in eighty four. No one knew what those were Hester about this in fifteen years later? I guess they could have been exactly. I guess I could have been like ninety eight sure, but the magic newsgroup. Or whatever we are doing in there in the chair rooms, looking to teach some cups and balls

You know, I'm a magician anyway want to drive aid. Why not getting any girl magical air? Why am I not getting any calls to change my branding? Did you ever want to do different magic. Besides card stop, it seemed like a focused on carts, both of you. That's really. We talk about this all the time. People people make the assumption that we that that's what we do cards mostly because that's what they see see a stupid way. We look at all the same thing in magic. Magic has met its like a stage. Allusion shore fits the story sunlight in all, but is it's like if it's a feeling is that you know I'm a mountain, nothing against nations and affects the hardest type of magical. Was that the MAX maven, who is kind of the is the patriarch of knowledge and several looks to MAX for answers and things, and here he wants to say something about how like the most difficult type of magic, sexually station,

and because it is very clear when watching a stage illusion show that the magician has very little to do other than wave his arms and aunts rising. That's gonna! What you were saying about brands enabling young and pointed the thing that does the thing it look at this machine, this thing that I bought and your welcome, and so it is the most difficult in the sense that to get an audience to have a feeling, a visceral send some like magic while watching a box do a thing on stage is very, very difficult. That's why David Copperfield, you know is they ve got, will discuss. He got people to feel those moments when he was really doing a thing. He really people to feel magic, even though you know he was basically holding his arms up, like you, know, a girl displaying a car, and what do you think that secret was like what what he want? Is that at what is that a drunk

look over? There was good at the vignette. He was actually able to tell a story within the thing it it's a hard thing for a stage magician to tell any kind of story in like, but we have looked like rock is it played in the wind. Warm in every like red. Is the one consistent element of any good our form, whether it's a painting or tell us? show a movie or stand up. It's just like the story has to be good and the story has to be authentic or I think it can be organic and you know if the stories good, though forgive anything people forget anything and then the you know. If the story can carry you know, a good story can carry a week, anything really even even weak, magic trick and end, and in stage you need people to go on that emotional journey where they are for good. They get rid of their intellectual intelligence. Motion ontology instead, so that's who you really need that more than anything in magic, you have to sort of let your head get out of it.

You wanna mainly when you go to the MAGIC castle, you can sit there and be angered by all these people who are doing. You can't figure it out, for you can have a couple drinks and wander around in your like love, the close of magic and go and see her love, the palace show and you meet some ninety shows your card. You can, it's all just amazing, you kind of have to give it up all of your trotwood. I? U get mad at it because, like if someone's our guide, it's my bride, but you know: why would you go watch Madge, right, you're, just gonna get maggots people do that's different types, analytical types or whatever the right line, but its end, and sometimes you can't help but go therefore you're seeing a shitty, you know of church and a shitty magic performance. You can't help adjust its reduced to houses working because I'm not gonna let this ass will be, to me it would rightly reminded us. Well especially, and I mean I would almost think, that providing for drunk people could be. You know I mean at least with at least was stand up if someone's hammered you can directly engaged them and then just could have sort of spin the shell about that. But I

that when you have, when you have that kind of a performance to Venice, just as I can if someone's gonna, they are you, what is it? You know you guys deal with hecklers that you can do the same here. I like I like actually to tell people to shut up. I like it. I really like it because I think I think people don't understand out the respectful there are being not for me I couldn't care less, I'm doing the show every single day and tomorrow, if discharge is not going to be good tomorrow, probably going to be good, but for all the other people, the other people watching the show like that oh dear, respectful that you think you are more than them, and it's ok to have an occasional at clearer. That says a funny thing: it's that's different than during one of these. Going to ruin understood, do rather, failure is usually a driver is needed,

your presence on the on the main stage at the castle, the house once I and call it means I had passed the biggest Asia figures there, bigger I was doing a show and there was a woman who is heckling and she was being playful and I ice. I said a couple things and tried to shut her up and she's playful again now, she's being disrespectful and- and I said alright, I tell you what we are going to. Let the audience decide the next time decide to interrupt one more time for its goal at the island's decide, and maybe you know, ask you to leave, and so she immediately the thing is. I think that was your last chance audience. What should we ask relieved everyone upon it? I think I can I get the how sites turn turn the house. It's up, and I said I said now- here's the best part. I said this is now way more entertaining than what I was just doing, so

This is really great cause. Now we are all going to watch you as you either make the choice to stand up now and leave, or, as we have security come in and escort you out. It's a better financial solution. And so the end than I did that, and I waited until her in her group got up and left our own group had to go to end and right as they left. I said and miss before you go next time. You come to life performance. Please make sure you don't come. This respect the performer and, most importantly, the audience. Thank you very much standing ovation, oh and they as soon as the door shut. Let's get back to the voting shown the audience was done. It was well. That's that you know that's all thing about about the pushing pull over heckler and may end like once they get to a certain point. It sort of like a funnel web spider

trap. Where you know like an hour, I wouldn't you ve taken, then you just taken the wrong stamp and you don't have a fucking know, because now the audience is against you and I don't have to attack you in any way. I can just let it happen and they will shame you and it's out of my hands and that such a set like Y know exactly that moment where you get to go everything's you're, a good man. You get the watchers a lot about the magic castle. There was recently an event with the guy who is doing his comedy magic show in the palace and some one drunk. I was trying to get his attention and for whatever reason it didn't go. Well, chip, hello! Oh! What a climbed over across to people sit and grab him physically grabbed him by the arm and wooden him go older, gentlemen grabbing the younger magician guy and that this stage manager I had to like come running and grabbed the guy, and it was like a thing, and so now we're having to put panic buttons

in different duration area. But it you know it's it's it's a tricky thing. They can take it out you, for especially you know the the closer magic rumours is incredible because it is so into. And for people have never been to the MAGIC castle is at. If you just saw the room you'd never go. You can put some sort of some type of performance in here, and it's just like it's like its raised seeding. And it's a tiny room and you can see everything super exceeding, and I mean that's the point with car magic, especially doing the nothing to hide show is that all the states have to be able to see the tabletop Andy close enough to see than the pipes to know if it's a heart or club, because if you're too far

and he's lady, like puts the Jha hand over his other his card and it turns into different card. It means nothing because you can't see their guard so that the logistics of those of those theatres are important now, besides, obviously the you know, if your passionate about magic as an art form what's the sort of business goal, because did I mean. Is it because I'm there's not a ton of magic on television and tat? Can you translate into other you know into for other forms of media or is it just? Is it detour, or get a residency somewhere. What what is the ultimate business eagle and I'm not the businessman here- yes in ITALY. I feel, like my I'm, a bit of the pied piper of variety arts like I constantly crowing, whether I'm hosting the Tony's and want people to see Broadway shows or whether I'm doing magic stuff trying to get people. I want people. Value. Seeing live things that are good.

And seeing them live because it's one thing to see: Ricky J, whose fantastic it's one thing to see his HBO Especial, which is great. But when you see that same show live and he's right there and he's talking to you and he's doing effects that you're, you know you're you're, fifteen feet away from him and he's doing something really remarkable that I think that that's it Lee. It has a bigger impact to you yet alive. That's it is we who that's why we ve had weaken our individually and with the show together. Now that's several tv opportunities and things to do. Real, hey come do tv specialty was shown and we did. We can't find a way to make it work for us in terms of or make it work for magic because it can be seen on tv, but it can't be experienced. It has to be. Experience live like most great life of we're too precondition and now with the union.

And the and the easy effects that can be done on a movie or your phone to not think that there's trickery ETA Well, it's not even just the trickery part, but it's also very hard to shoot, stand up for television because you just need to. It's a communal experience and it just better when you're in it it's temper. I think that a lot of it has to do with, knowing that this is happening in the world right now at this moment and can never be reproduced in some way like what a whether or not the one who's gonna tell the same joke do the same effect as something it's it's. I know that this is happening for me. I met that's almost like that's almost like a like an endangered resource of the law the than the experience of now and not taking it for granted like just ducats on internet. Of like knowing oh shit, this is an utter courted moment that I will just have to record with my mind, absolutely and not experience, and not only

is the is a lot of good work for that. The live, theatrical part where people show up to a theater. Is that an experienced that's happening in that moment, which is important, but also magic, is one of the few things that forces you to recognize the moment because it it really confront you with the world if you're doing it properly and it come front you with how the world is or how it should be or how you thought it was, and it's not, and so you really have moments of introspection in a magic show that that is like is like one element it when I'm communion sizzling, really profound onstage, that's not just a joke. It's like holy shit, he's right about that truth, and so it's a really amazing. Thank they that it is a lie about that in the show. Enough to hide is the the choices that we make and the ramifications of said choices, but the idea that the idea of expressing a truth

through a form of misdirection is really interesting. Smaller yeah, that's really interesting. Altruist expressed through Lyman Picasso system. Like that you know, art is cool, is alive cells because I said art is collecting it in, I think he's the things I learned to some degree It was the work that he has done. Nothing about her. Ours is a lie that tells the truth. You know and an issue for all children are, so if you don't have you don't use the word trick. What is the word that you use trick the and the only reason to like them we would avoid. The word trick is because it can tax rises it wrong in the sense that we want our goal is to for a moment to set aside

your Europe, pessimism, men and negativity and and and and bring back a little bit of that childhood wonder as cheeses sounds and trick always remind you that it is a trick. It is just a trick and it so it's you know we don't want to say you know, and the next magics we be showing you like, but I thank you and it's not it's. Just it's it's trick is a lot of time in especially when talking to other people is what we were. We end up saying: every everything has its own vernacular everything China has its own. Are you watching girls by bother now we re pretty girls. What baby at the outset, in other fuckin, unfair thing, is the one guy in this room that could land that girl doesn't like girls like that? Maybe I already did learn shift. The other problem with tricks is that there are both prostitutes on the side

yeah so confusing. There's a lot of good as artists. Aren't we all, but I thought I but I think you know what is going to say is that in any in any field there is over natural or that is different than what the public like you know, my dad owns a bowling centre. If you say bowling alley, it puts them off a little bit because bowling It is a very specific type of Boeing Establishment Bowling chapel you would. Of a bowling alley. Some sort of a the idea- really dirty grungy. You know we're bowling Centre is like a family, and so, but you wouldn't know that if you didn't work in the business, it's like that very personal, the best, as any knows, TVS is gag. But for some reason Hollywood has decided that the word for a man will effect is gag, and so I own there was that I've been. There was the gag on this one with the with the grand chamber the game. What? If what? If what if the effects have a ball gagging, they usually nails the gag get the guy is no. If a gag

yeah I got gag, makes it also like gag, is just one step below trick triggers get the gag are released the camp we end up saying trick all the time. So then, let me ask you when when year, when you are about offended already, mad, but when Europe, when you're coming up with a do start with the story and then go the sickle story. What effects could I built into this, or do you start with the affair, first and then build a story around that. Really this path is the air we we ve worked both ways. I think I think, if we peak, if we start to the effect and build a story around, because that effect is really strong and there's a really interesting metaphor already built into it, and that allows us just to understand that metaphor and translated to

story around. Ok, what is considered happy and magic like what, if you saw a magician decently, really got that acts as a key. Is there? Is there? Oh there's a list. Camera tricks like like what I find it happy I just find it easier. Like I buy happy to me, I bid to me. It just means super easy super easy, like low low hanging fruit. Well like I could feel myself had to know no, the clean one, oh no, I mean like I could go with a handheld camera to university walk and I could go up to someone in say: hey. Let me show you a trick and then I could like say pick a card and then I could say is this your card and I will cut awaited them, and then I could come back and say, look they're all blank, but I've just switch like

I wish you'd like editing traders to me. That's there's. Hacking is because I guess it doesn't sound like magic right, but a lot of magic has become that a little, but I think there is like there is a lot of other hatch and jokes that magicians use all the time, I'm sure that's actual actual problems. What throws out more when senior another magician. It's like really agony really. Is this line, and oh my god, oh my god, and then its, I think the choice of of of material like you can see that you can you can you can understand when a magician all is done for the last hour, fear of his life is going to a magic shop, buying a trick seeing a year view where someone is doing that and copying that undoing honesty, Sharia that out of the law and Madge. I would imagine now especially oh, how do you get deal with, because comedians fuckin hated. The camera phones like taking

Yo during shows, I opened them. Why not I I I take the approach, planing explaining to them what it means cause. I don't think people really thought about it. They dont meaning only but in a bad way. They then, I think, they're happy. I bring it back What we are saying earlier- and I have literally this- is what I say I tell people if its, if it, sir, and usually doesn't matter even if its, if it's going to interrupt the show, because it becomes part of this- I will tell them. I know I noticed your videotaping and I said normally I don't. I don't permit that, like I say it beforehand like or its people know that your videotaping, which I'm not going to scold you for? But I just want you to know what that means, because I said what we're doing in this room is for us right now and it's special and we can never have it back, and

once. It goes away, it's gone, but at least we know experienced it and I said, and every second that leaks from this room diminishes the quality and the meaningfulness of what we're doing here. So you can keep selling. If you want, but just know that every second that cameras on It makes this a little less, but the less special a great house do the most eloquent and articulate heckler basher. I've ever ok. I'll. Just now is one of the most eminent undersides. I put them in the position because of their choice, I'm not. You know I can tell him to put the phone down and explain to them why they're an asshole for filming, but it's a lot easier for that. You know the best lessons you learn of the ones you teachers out by trade that approach. What would happen if I die would say listen. This is an experience and if you want to make that choice at finding, they go ok I'll keep accordingly like tat you fuck you, you know like then landline and thanking than others in other EU countries, and if I did I did I did I just had that into Como is performing and that there is a beauty you're. Always your constantly scanning the room so make sure everyone involved.

I saw a camera like a phone up and then, when I scanned back, it was the lap- and I was like, are you? Are you taking video and she was like? Yes, I like work, why? Why won't just so? I can watch it later with my and, unlike kid that's a newcomer. A dagger was a like. She was so sweet and then it just say went down, and you know I didn't want you to think I was a dick rose. I call you know. This is just for you guys, and it's like, if you put it, there. You know some of this stuff is it it'll, be in the world. The I didn't think it makes sense to be born here, and you know she just wanted to show it to her friend. Thankfully, there can help to show that nothing to hide is so good that I think anyone could feel that it would still be awesome. It's not like it's not like if they something. But I don't? U element that from now on a report that I personally make an announcement before every show do not record or do anything, but what I

me a little bit with magicians- is that they they'll and am sure it's exactly the same and stand up is that there are some one will just watch something that Eric are held, her does and then go do it as their act. They'll just take their act and not give any kind Then just do oh yeah. I would imagine there is even less respect. I really believe authority because they deprive they call it the mechanism, it's like magic for all of us, its rights, will any end and magicians women state magicians have tried to copyright all kinds of effects, but you can kind of get your way around it, but that's one of the things that I think is so awesome about what there can help Doing is because their material is their material. They have come up with their own unique methods for all kinds of things that you see. So they you, you can by any of the things that they're doing on there in their Shetland and frankly, the expertise level is high enough that you wouldn't probably be able to accomplish it anyway. But I love that forward. Thinking on my friend is a guy named Alonzo whose showing a magician guy and add to feel. Like you have this,

idea and he'll like hire some guy to help him build some prosthetic thing that helps first trick and like he creates its own stuff. They'll go and tested out in all places around the country and old home. It no make it a bit of doesn't love, it he'll try something else, but he has a lot of shit. That's just his own stuff that he no doubt about that. The thing that I do understand about really good magic is that you guys are basically inventors and at the same time, because it was yet here, that's a dying. That's that's part of the death of magic is at its been turned over to their Hobbes damages like it used to be like the magician. Was the clock her who shared who studied under so, and so you know and an end built these things that no one had ever seen and they bill for thinking technology and then, once we fell behind technology which also cited it so quick can't get up with it. You know that's now: it's the people, most most magicians, don't create their own material. They use other.

This material apply their own spooks. It's not like you can just go to Nikola Tesla get his machine that duplicates you at the top of the theatre, and then you have to kill every time we fall through the stage that, since the incident I don't know, why did not enjoy the prestige when I saw it, but it's a movie that I fear I still think about. Like years after having seen its a great book, I read the book like four years, five years before them, They came out and I thought this would be a great movie, but no one's gonna make a period movie about Tesla into dueling magicians it. But you know that is this not a cost effective tat if they just, and it was good that the whole idea of like wait a minute, so just all of a sudden, this machine just happens to copy people, and that's it that made

mad. You could say that about a lot of movies, though not just that one every other movie. I was amazed at the press thicket. I wish you guys. I wish the people listening. Kids could see the magic. This is an interesting thing about this, the specific podcast, because we're talking about things that are both of you, will the nature, do not I mean, like you, can't really theatre the my meal. I guess so you know what that is. Chris is right. Now it is true, then that's a lot of the blood of the thing that, like people it is. It is a theatre, the mine, in the sense that, like people forget like that in our show nothing I've given plans that we are using cards and people leave. The show and no one ever talks about that. That's the last thing. Anyone talks about that. None of the reviews really mention that occasionally some blogger. Something might mention that, but most people don't realize that that is all that's being used or playing cards because

because of what was happening in their mind throughout the show is constantly taking them out of that heads base of of the props and what's with? What's being seen and it's the end of the journey, their imaginations taking them on, but I will say, I think People, you know definitely comedy, certainly in magic. You sort of have to go in and surrender yours, like somebody else's fault, those who forget that as an audience, you do have a responsibility and your responsibility is to focus, and and and hand your ashy over to the to the audience into the performer that mean office. If the former is bad, you dont have you certainly dont have a responsibility to stay invested, but but their EU do have to do a little work, on your part as an audience member, you can't just sit there and full drives and be like for you to impress me like.

I need to come in a little open, we totally agree. We know that people will come in with their arms folded and and with that, we expect that, like we aim for that level, so our first, the first thing we do in the show is geared towards a not building a wall between us but a but a convent taken between held her, and I know the conflict between the magician in the spectator. Do it usually is magic, show right off the bat magician comes trustful audience it is. It is a competition of sorts between held her now where we sit at the table and we go head to head and it's very few of the fourth wall is there, and so they feel it allows them to just settle in a play or something and and then the magic part of it is so brutal that they realise that, even if they were in that had space station just give up now and in the first pieces engineer to absolute

So even if people are with their arms folded and if the first one doesn't get him by the sack on game over and so than now, and now they're reiterated that the nature of magic, as that feeling of I am the magician I'm doing this, and I'm gonna fool- you is there like you for, even if we don't want to acknowledge it, it's there and the other is going to a magic show, even if they like magic and even if they want to appreciate the magic part. There is a part of their brain that is always gonna, be trying to understand how we do it, but part of our task as a magicians is that to its to acknowledge that and make sure they understand it's, not, I don't. I don't think it's a give up situation its more. You are losing more. If you try to do that, then, if you try to enjoy the mothers and emotional contract really when someone buys a ticket to show, there is an emotional contract that you're all entering in which, as you know, you

and to be led to this experience, and I will lead you, but you have to be at least a little bit willing for that to happen and if you're not, then don't you know, then maybe don't heavy coke that was the more more that way and magic I think than most. I agree because in stand up you're going out with your friends to have a good time and with magic. There are two different schools of thought. When people watching people that want to believe and want to just sit back and enjoy, and people that are fucking hell, bent on figuring out how it was done and that died every at show at any magic. Then you you'll get those two types of people is harder to ask an entire audience, seeing magic to just go with the right of every vehicle internet go. How did you come up with that? Did you know you? It is there that votes are weird. I just. How did you make that turn? I always not farts were

I didn't realize how weird they are not honour, whatever the comic thing, but I find it impressive that these guys think that hard about about cars Well, I I think an audience. You dont The commission say like look worse, very passionate about this thing that we're doing your performance relays that to them, and then they appreciate that, even just on that level, they Anders and like oh yeah, that's not that's not fucking around. Up there. That's like this actually required some thought. Innovation and and and how do you, innovate in magic, especially if you know at this point when it's so much of it has been done in so much of has been broadcast feebly. So how do you continue to innovate? It's really hard question to answer. I I I think there is. There is up there.

Point of you study enough and you'll learn enough and you practice in it and at one point, if used. If you study the right things and you you ve learned what you should learn and do you understand, you start understanding magic and when you start understanding measures a pointer is that I just call it the click point where things start like you start inter waving knowledge that you ve never thought be it was possible to and you you go back and you tried to like if anyone think about what I'm thinking out. Oh no weight so, and you start following those lethal by that that leave away and and eventually you ended up by creating something new and that set aside

This that I just described the up and that so many levels, one of them, is the technical part you can actually create. New technique is like it's. It's like imagine a piano player. He has all the keys and the it can play those keys. The way you want to quit the sandy once, but in magic, it's like the piano can even be bigger than it's not right now, so you can even extend that again and then he used those keys to play the things you want to play and do the way you want to play. Well, the thing that I find so interesting about it is that you, you know with stand up. You can just go up on stage with Kai. An idea go. Well, you know I find it. You know I can cause it's so much about the release, for their audience like that. You you can just sort of find where the bit is, but you guys have to have the technical part worked out.

So well before even go up on stage, because you can't you can't afford for it not to be yeah yeah. I'm in that. That part tree gotta. You had a really work on it before you get an infirmary audience, but like from me, I I I got frustrated with the with the technical imitations of magic, and so do you not for me. I just started asking you questions about what it is to be a magician end and what it is TAT relationship with an audience as a magician and what it is to be a magician, a modern society and, in those new questions that I asked for myself, you know found me in areas maybe not with new new technology or new techniques, but maybe new ideas in relationship to magic. So, like I treasure like I've given

I've been having given up on a new technical innovations, but I think that, like the new evolution of what a magician can we can perhaps provide new new ways of thinking about magic or new ways of performing magic. What was the answer that you came up with? What? What does it mean to be a magician? I think I think I think learning how to acknowledge. Acknowledge a what what the route to really be honest, brutally honest about what a magician how it, how emissions perceived by modern society and the new movie the burden of you ever want to strengthen them of his coming out that that's it. That's the people say that scenery stereotypes needs and it SAM. It's. I don't think stereotypes I think is perception. I think its actual perception of how the world sees magicians instead of looking at it is stereotyping and like a negative and like all, that's how they're just there. That's a hyperbole should go,

what job from rested on that. What if they know this is the way that you know no one percent. You know no known, portray Stanhope comics as like Gallagher hitting a watermelon anymore, whereas it doesn't happen because that's not the perception. It's you know it's. You were gonna Lucy CARE Patent, Oswald and unlike real comics people, what it is, and so I think magicians need to be honest with themselves and allow the world to be their mirror, so they can take a look and then maybe started change. A close little bit and literally amendment no fifty five. By the way I didn't want to gloss over the fact. I appreciate you put lumping me with too much superior comics myself, but I say that I appreciate that, even if you just said it is you're sitting across them when I buy it idea, I presume that yet the identity and I but I wouldn't when I'm innocent ones. When you're in someone's house you gotta today, this is the man, I don't creases prop comic. You knew their right. He is like a

I'm put, my tie in Malawi, arbiter, booby trap. Finally, apologize to peddle ass well to lose for why? Hey, I dont data business. Madam president, I got you a trick for someone this listing a home without without them seeing anything that doable. That put you on the spot is rising. That is exactly what it is its pudding guide over here that one thing I someone eminent listening to this pipe guess. I go home and I go to their in their kitchen shelf and get a Deca cards, and, unlike do something you turn to do and have a bee magical, is doable

They can't hear staring right. No, no! They could hear it up on the director. This goddamn show. No, that is there any further all right forget it. We have nothing but but but malice for you now, but we could talk through one We could like describe it. No, I just remember back in the days I have all these old records of like classic magicians and they would say, go and get a deck of God's. Now it cut the cards, and free pie. Nose like our audio magic. I didn't know if you could do any audio magic, suitable

with meal is that of a dream. I still remember you. Finally, I had cast is about to start easily made about the heart of the problem of having Neil around us he's so excited about it in more than that or he's always the the biggest magician in the room and the three of us there for shirk zeller- and I were like he's always like the first to be like, let's make it fuck man then we're like dude, we just wanna go, get a burrito or somethin you some magic is that he believes as much more than anyone. So it's it's hard to its hard to keep your level of time. Well that that I love being fooled- and I love being, I love letting having that sense of wonder, overwhelm me whether its with magic is specifically or frankly, some of my best euphoric feelings have been at circulates, shows at the Santa Monica appear

when it was like early style and it was new that experience and it was David Shiner doing doing comedy mad comedy in the middle of this giant theatre space- and I just remember- laughing so hard to my hands. Hurt and watching people do these amazing things, and I ask, as a group or like wow, and entertained and and has in hysterics, and I just think that that group vie for something that's happening, lives so, except So that's what I love about it and what I loved being involved with the directing thing and with cards, especially I dont think you guys are kind of the exception cause. You perform a lot, but most people see card magic by their cousin in her kitchen and then they think it's all right and it's cool and a lot of carbon proof. There's only perform for very small groups of people, so a sort of my job as a director to make sure that they were. Having the confidence to be able to perform for the front row, but also for the back row and to keep it you

you know, I'd is my jaw. You said that you're okay, but it kind of my job to be more enthusiastic about them in to instill confidence in them that what they're doing is so great, which it is the idea of taking a close up show and making it big yeah, but it can't be that at that was my point earlier. Can't ever be that big. We can't put a big projection screen behind them and shows that where people will start to think cheating companies that govern hold ours is a hundred hundreds bright it. A hundred years ago, we brought in special bleachers further, like less especial seeding and stuffs super acceding, and we ve. I d, like you, may not know, but the tables on a bit of a rake back two legs, the table. We had to raise up a little bit cards were flat, they looked like their flat, but there actually a little bit about so you could see you there's. Only one piece in the entire showed, its close up, everything else is agreed, is is stand up and in another reason it's close up because receded, and if that first peace there

I later reverse feeling which lively undertaken relies heavily on tablet. Everything else in the show is stand up more or less, and so will you tell him to get closer to the Mai known. And so you might you just get the low they all it's, not you! It's not your fault. You can remove happens throughout a guy like that, although you have it, I don't know, it looks like we're people, though I don't like. I don't want you just like you, and I want you to have two hundred satisfying the MIKE that's better. Rickety old at it. That's better perfect! now I really want to do will be as it running indefinitely or just get picked up for another chunk of time. We got picked up when one is airing, we'll put this up within the next week. Ok, so I was begun and will be through March. How martian March is what it says: anneal abuse played it's going on after and never pay keep the given keeps putting off neoliberal because the tickets are so cells are so good and they show so awesome

So I think I think you may have a canary chevy, listen better. It doesn't happen by April. Libya product is not listening. Is progress either knowingly Lillian, Pat, no, hang out and justice? Don't listen ass, black ass! guys. You want to know, is this part sure Patten's conflict, shit tits there was little and then I don't, I don't know what do I do know what will be without a little bit lobby as well as by the robber adds? No, it's that's been my it's been awesome that it's that has been so well received in everyone's interests. Show this week here, oh wow, what how do you keep it fret? How do you keep your show fresh? We don't its limits, but when I tell you I'll tell you exactly how it's it's, it's structured so well that will this first peace that they mention gets the audience in a head space of light

Their minds are already kind of blown that then they get to have fun with some verbal dexterity. Some thought processes that I think people dont tend to think about, and you get a group to be in a head space. That is, that keeps it from being still we loved his answer. I've heard two things during this bank has so far would make great album titles number one brutal magic, Number two verbal dexterity, nine bands, I don't think the magyar policies is an actual term thought processes. Processes. Is that a word processes that doesn't sound right, come out of my mouth greek body, product processing bosses. Practice processes was. The greek Goddess MAGIC parliamentary, incredible verb there was. I also want to take this opportunity to say- and I know this is a little shilly on my part, because our channel, but I really mean it sincerely, but meals. Puppet dreams is fucking

some in what you guys were able to do in three days with a bollywood number thing is fucking nuts. Anyone who has seen this bollywood number. That was like our our PS. The resistance were very excited. We was the last one that we air, because we thought it was our best. You know four and a half minutes sketch, though we did on the US public dreams, and I thought of five million hits. I thought for sure. It's gotta like be this viral thing in this like a hundred and fifty thousand. That's still not a good number no case for no better Harris, maybe not run the risk of the four hundred and fifty thousand that fuckin kid who went to the dentist and is sitting in his back That was pretty. Great, though, is the life I mean come on best, twenty nine guidance, your cousin anyway, that's better than under Video- I'm. Just anyone who has seen a ghost emails, puppet dreams, following number is awesome. I found no we're Rickards Derby Poohpooh, who think it go down on a public house. That's all I'm saying that numbers grown up,

I was actually talking about the puppet improv Have you seen the live and learn? It's really good at them, the puppets which is which is probably the pretty good God. It was called after Unstrung. Now, where it was called puppet up and then it came, became suffered unstrung but was fascinating about the puppet improv is that they have conceded to the audience you're going to see the puppeteers, and so they have a camera up front and they have monitored. So you can see the puppet, but then you can also just watch on screen, but even that is an interesting form of misdirection, because there's no to hide the way that it works. So it's just all in the joke than the performance, there's nothing to hide Could I, three, the name of the issue hocker comes around in a giant delicious circle.

I am going to I'm gonna, go see nothing to hide my will tonight. I can't go to night buck within their tickets, written it was about. Maybe now I want to go as part of the elements quality when Peter kick it in half. Now so an undoubted light, bigger tour. The show a tour right now, probably not but were going to New York. I'm sure! That's will that. Yes, that's that's out. That's a gold, but to steal them. We don't have any its rate him high conversation that we're all having right now, because going to New York, would be great, it's kind of like that's the end goal for any kind of smallish theatre, peace, especially magic, which isn't represented in New York in this capacity very often, but again, dealing with logistics war. What theatre can you do that everyone can see the cards right,

How do you get to a Broadway house? That's a thousand seats, you wouldn't do it so you're, not so we're toward we're trying to him, but you get a lot of people that are going to be peace here he doesn't want I'll. Be economics is also the economics of show where you can really only have a hundred people. True, and what can you charge here? but also that there have been eliminated time period for the old, parlor, parlours and houses? Was that, like turn of the century? Nineteen? Twenty, something where people had as a proper form of education yeah. I guess we before perform entertainment. You would bring. You know thirty people into your parlour and you would all sit and watch a magician or a cellist or something like those smallish kind of and use were prevalent back then or you had we fundamentally about some crazy royal family or indifferent. Oil diameter him later work high. Whilst I am aware of listening to this part of certain further, if you knew no I've just been listening to the most interesting

audio cars tat them. We and were well. You know I dont know what country tippets with the prince of Central Park the plan words because costs have pity on them see that's very inside magically. I don't know what that I didn't know that in the no no, that does it could ghek David. They require you just tip. I had in fact magic hipsters. I do a lot a comedy at their expense. My sadness makes them tomorrow. It was already, but when you're directly Michaud than you like, and then I should come out with the number there like Neil love with that, we actually thought about that. Sahim you'll come just two hundred performance and in the middle of the show, just walk through the stage and walk out without either anything just stand. A sheet of rapid that, at the end of

only a couple years ago. I know it's unbelievable, it's a strange thing directing someone's show and they have written said, show I've done it a couple of those especially magic based because it you do you have to direct with a very soft hand, because all you, you can't say like no do it this way. Because it's their creative aerial. They came up with it. So I'm sort of a little like what are you guys prefer this or that or from you're doing this and I'm taking from it. Is that what you're intending like you oughta me like you, have to direct in a very specific way when it's, when it's the inside directing one men show and then asked and then asking for cuts right, they rode they wrote it. So us that's been fun Will you guys have to trust each other to a certain extent? We like you, have to it's? U have to not match your point of view onto their thing, correct. Which is very hard because you you I'm sure you have

ideas and well, but my ideas are trumped by their awesomeness, so it makes it kind of easy in this system, Do you do as a director? Are you just essentially sound area like a workshop audience for them? In a sense, I think that good gauge of what an audience would be taking from a given moment, and I think that I have gained their confidence in that. So, if I am able to say, like that's, conferred, into mere when you're saying madam, I dont think I am getting what you're trying to accomplish than they take note out and try and rewarded in a certain way or or or just struck in a cemetery with blocking- and I mean we trust we, we know what he's capable of on a stage when he says someone Neil says something like. I know that you also seeing it through the eyes being where I'm like as perform or not just as a director like, I know he is able to be honest, they on stage and see,

and no one knows what it is to get a crowd on its feet and to get him go and in society I know he sees it with Alan Turing is able to see it from a performers. Putting you not just two directors point of IRAN's writers point of view, so it's it's! It's I like there are times are like day. Eight he's right, I'm sure he's right. Cassim that he is a performance of you know of field were playing on. So any he's gonna it, but I'm happy to be wrong a lot of time, the real like I'll say some note It is self evident that doesn't make any sense in it, as did screwing with you, annually. Motivating alone are always questions. It's like why are you doing that and if we have a good reason to do that, you'd say: ok, I get it. I think that. And I'm not a director. Nor will I ever be, but I think that's, my guess is that's the best web and produce stuff. That's the best way is to have the person whose thing it is just question it in a way that maybe they they wouldn't have before. I tend to start everything that I direct by letting the purse letting the actors

but probably everyone know that I'm going to ask a lot of why questions, but but oftentimes people take away question with an agenda and do not have any agenda. So if I say why you saying it like that, meaning like why the fuck outta he'll, take that I meaning like what. What are you? What what are you trying to accomplish by saying that I am having to speak in more specific words, there is a lot of. Why are you not doing what I told you, Why would you want me to why? Would you want me to kill this show? Why are you failing why my working with you actually actually, the best part, was because we have the magic part, and then we have the part that is the performance part in here all working on that and the weak. We kept hiding from meal some of the secret and one of the times. No one. Ok just tell me everything now, like this moment more, that's funny, interesting thing with magicians. Is it? A magicians won't often reveal how much they actually know about stuff, because it kind of reveals there. Now

lay off about we're hiding more than we were to be always arise, and I didn't want to come in and say, like all right, show me how this is done in areas that are too acted for a couple of that things. Like I didn't I get it. I knew that this was happening, but I wasn't sure exactly the methodology behind it. But after a certain point people were me. If I knew have been everything is done. I was like, oh absolutely, but in my heart there were things didn't really know at this this down and he walks represent. Show me the box. I did, but I felt like I was I was there. I had earned that That is why it is that only about six people who know the answer to that question I mean that's gonna, be magicians, I mean that is the most vulnerable

you can be, I would imagine we are revealing that well, unfortunately, that is that is where all of the energy is put into. The secret like like an hour show we can. We can get older. If there are many pieces and the shore we could give the secret away, and I don't think it would take much from the peace. Could you go? I fucking kidding me that's how that works with school, unbelievable, but a lot of times when the secret is just the secret and that's all the performance is hinged on its. Yeah, that's a mind, so defensive and I think part of part of the reason why I think people really like I was sure it's because they know the secret. It's not something you can buy or or or you can do ramping like very few people in this world can actually do and can actually get to that level so that the measures that it makes it makes it. They know that the separation- it's not a little separation, its

gap, and because of that, they just don't want to know how the secret will end. For me it there wasn't eating away at me like not knowing how this the things that I did was unaware of. It wasn't like things that I was trying to, I know like I appreciated that something was going on at this moment and I was more interested in how what was getting accomplish train and I hope that, through the minutiae hanging out. I would welcome the big rules on producer shell, but you have to tell me who says I certainly have a right or wrong What is the word is: is the recipients gotta given playhouse webs? or is there is nothing to hide website. Or can people follow you on Twitter, which was he they can follow? Son Twitter, we have twitter handles, go out at Derek De Area case underscored down there does that there is a great when the fire. He has lots of interesting things to say mice at who is elder. That, logically,

who has held on another matter, not not. Who is that given is Helder W H? Oh, I asked ACL the ear and end the different playhouse you type affiliates, given playhouse dotcom blast. Common. They have taken extending and sometimes there's like even specials for good price tickets and stuff. So yeah just keep your eye. Gold star has done from time to time actually mph on Twitter Holler newspaper dreams body, but at but I presume I mean I always was talking to people who are. You know masters at something, but just hearing where it comes from. Action and and and re hearing that the human side trying under Anna format and then kneel and are you and I are very like because I'm I'm allowed mouth about stuff, I love an idea very excited about what you guys. Why doesn't everyone know about this thing that I love to? So I appreciate I appreciate that you I will thank you thank you for having us

and I will say that I get it listening. I saw I gotta join the MAGIC ass, the weather, socio memberships, another expensive, we'd love. To have your teacher. I will say that if people are have listened to this and are and should it, it is a kind of once in a lifetime experience to see the show these two guys. I can't say that there are so good enough cause. It's real. That good excellent will thanks thanks for coming. You guys also going for having deliberately everyone. Enjoy a magical burrito, I'm the royal many from New York, I've heard about your showered upon cast out, I'm just dying out like a court, Mogadishu and Burrito opened to have two palos. One is a hidden behind domino grace. Could you before repertory, I dont know what country from I'm lock up? Either Taylor Swift judges from the ground,

Oh buddy, it's this voice that goes into g where's, these dresses, where these pants, what society no one? Nowhere where I'm a ban on any more or less that you're, not my boyfriend and resign sitting right here. Sweetest granted the dead dead at the DARE Taylor. Swift, doesn't lesson of the pakistani there. Not anymore, now not just last her control data, pod guest, and it's not going to go well now, leaving noticed, enjoy your router. This absurd of notice podcast was Bronte by Square Space Doc.

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